First, apologies to my readers for the diversion from the usual fare, but I’ll point out that this entry is covered under the masthead in the category of “recent news” and there’s a relevant WUWT category.
Since like many of you, I’ve been forced to sign a document (at my radio station where I employed part-time) that confirms I’ve been given another document that advises me of my Obamacare rights, and of course being in tune to the news, I’ve been wondering if the claims about the Obamacare websites are as bad as claimed.
I read an article in the Pittsburgh Tribune “Sebelius visit fails to reassure as health care website glitches persist” that said:
Sebelius, who is making similar trips to cities across the country to spread the word about the website, told the audience of about 100 people that Healthcare.gov was “open for business.”
“Believe me, we had some early glitches,” said Sebelius, who was introduced by Rooney, a backer of the law. “But it’s getting better every day.”
So, I decided to find out myself. I went to http://healthcare.gov and chose my state, California. What follows is a record of what I actually got. I never made it past step 1:
Try it yourself: https://coveredca.com/shopandcompare/
NOTE: To be accurate, the website security certificate will work if the “www” is used as prefix, but not the link above sans www. By following the link from the Tribune article, with no other changes on my part, I ended up with the sans “www” connection, which they didn’t get a proper security certificate for. One wonders how many other “glitches” exist in basic security on these websites.
Even when you go in with the “www” there are problems. In Firefox I get this:
UPDATE: Reader Ben points out that it gets a failing grade from an SSL grading service, SSL Labs:
Source: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=coveredca.com
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While not quite on the same par with what the FBI burned through a few years back in attempting to create “Virtual Case File” it is in the same league (100 MM and above).
“Anatomy of an IT disaster: How the FBI blew it
The Bureau’s foiled plan for a modern IT infrastructure is a tragic case of project mismanagement”
http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/anatomy-it-disaster-how-fbi-blew-it-243
Wiki – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Case_File
The Obamacare S/W cost is still dwarfed by the costs of the FAA’s “STARS” program of a few years back:
http://www.informationweek.com/664/64iufaa.htm
http://cagw.org/media/press-releases/faa-seeing-stars
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5th Rob says:
October 13, 2013 at 9:53 am
The healthcare system in the USA is clearly broken. The US pays twice as much for its healthcare in comparison to most 1st world countries, all for an inferior outcome. This is because the free market doesn’t work in this situation – i.e. how much are you going to pay to save your life? It has “rip-off” written all over it. And the US medical profession is indeed ripping off its patients. The facts speak for themselves:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_compared#International_comparisons
Its a market that needs regulating – hence socialism delivers a far better outcome in this situation.
________________________________
You do have a good point about costs, but you neglected to mention any main points concerning this issue in order to make your point. Still, I can’t help but notice that you managed to get in a plug for socialism…
The medical establishment in the US comprises between 1/5 and 1/6 of the US economy and as you say, is clearly broken. (I’m not trying to start a fight, but wail away on any point you like.)
1st: Doctors are typically upper class and exist within an elite clique of “little gods”, with the power of life and death in their hands. Much of the hierarchy of the medical profession is dedicated solely to maintaining their social eminence and as such, the number of physicians is strictly limited. Medical schools purposely graduate very few doctors. Medical schools select a student body comprised of candidates with the highest quotient of avarice and then claim that their choice is needed, as greed seems to be the dominant factor which determines successful completion of med school and residency… it all gets rather circular.
That there are hundreds of thousands of deaths attributed to physician error, seems to indicate that the medical establishment has the wrong priorities.
2nd: Somewhat in response to the level of care doled out by the medical community, an extraordinarily huge portion of costs is due to the tight grip which trial lawyers hold over our political process. In our litigious society, doctors pay exorbitant “malpractice” fees, often in the hundreds of thousands of dollars for insurance and the legal profession piles on costs throughout the industry.
3rd, There are few controls on the types of costs with which the drug companies are allowed to exempt income from taxation. One can go into any multi- physician clinic in the US several times each week and there will be drug- vendor reps providing lunch for the clinic staff. Other advertising expenses are equally deductible and our airwaves are filled with ads for drugs. Advertising avg. 23% of drug costs.
4th, Those caregivers closest to the patient are at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to compensation, so those who might be well- suited to be nurses or serve in other capacities will often look elsewhere for employment.
Lastly, there is no end to the political greed which has only acted to support the excesses mentioned here. The realities of our politics has opened the door for the socialists who have their own agendas of power and control and greed… and here we are at Obamacare Tax.
I completely forgot to add in points about personal insurance costs, which are at artificially high levels due to government interference, most often seen as restriction of competition between insurance companies both inter and intrastate.
“One wonders how many other “glitches” exist in basic security on these websites.”
Complaining about Security. Really? Come on Anthony!
Haven’t you ever heard of “Trust us, we are from Government, and here to help”.
It is not like N.S.A. has spied on Americans, or I.R.S. released confidential Tax Records, or E.P.A. has needless shutdown Coal plants, or N.A.S.A. misled us about CO2 & GW, or N.O.A.A. played fast and loose with Global temperature Records.
TomJ: “The lower cost for European health care systems exist partly because they’re indirectly subsidized by the US healthcare system. For instance, price controls are affixed to prescription drugs in Europe. However, most new drugs are developed in the US.”
That applies even more so to Canada. A US company researches and develops a medicine. Canada allows them to charge production cost plus a small percentage, with the alternative being that their patent be ignored in Canada. This essentially theft is a substantial savings in costs for Canadians. Canadian pharmaceutical companies have had fewer than 10 new drugs developed in the last 50 years.
Also, costs for health-care are often apples and oranges. I haven’t dug into the Canadian budget since the 1990s, but at that time they excluded the cost of the hospitals themselves as well as major infrastructure like MRI machines from “health care”… As a result at that time NYC had multiples more MRI machines than were in all of Canada. When you included those things, Canadian health care was increasing in expense marginally higher than in the US.
Unfortunately, ‘truth in labeling’ laws do not apply to smarmy, slick, silver-tongued political campaigns or candidates nor is the ‘free press’ obliged to tell or print anything resembling truth …
.
While not quite on the same par with what the FBI burned through a few years back in attempting to create “Virtual Case File” it is in the same league (100 MM and above).
“Anatomy of an IT disaster: How the FBI blew it
The Bureau’s foiled plan for a modern IT infrastructure is a tragic case of project mismanagement”
http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/anatomy-it-disaster-how-fbi-blew-it-243
.
CAL says: “… but I am afraid you have just confirmed what my warmist friends have been saying for some time – that this is just a site for right wing propaganda.”
Naturally, your warmist friends GW websites are ALL – neutral, without bias, utterly science based, and have no left leaning talking points…
Imagine a person going to those websites hoping for real answers.
Remarkable.
5th Rob says:
October 13, 2013 at 9:53 am
“The healthcare system in the USA is clearly broken. The US pays twice as much for its healthcare in comparison to most 1st world countries, all for an inferior outcome. ”
Be careful about where you get the statistics from. Most countries measure these things in completely different ways, which end up not meaning what you think they mean. The UN then measures most things we hear about based upon how socialist it is.
“Twice as much” mostly means that the US includes everything to support the building that provides the health-care, and the machines that carry it out into its calculations…all while having 1970s medicine, which is pretty cheap, essentially outlawed for day-to-day health-care. Some of the countries on the list don’t include patient meals and bedding changes on the list for costs…or make the families provide those, like in Cuba.
The “inferior outcome” has many caveats as well, such as the UN’s measuring system including level of socialism as a dominant part of their measuring system, so in a US where people are capable of paying for their health-care themselves, they are ranked MUCH lower than if they pay a tax to pay for the health care, all else being equal. The US is also a highly diverse nation, with a very substantial immigrant population – legal and illegal – which strongly affects those numbers. Matching demographics, the US does quite well compared to the same peoples in other countries. Some countries don’t include babies that die at birth in their infant mortality figures.
For Canada, 27% percent of the people who have surgery wait four months or more. In Britain,that portion rises to 38%. In the US, that number is only 5%.
Gdn:
re your post at October 13, 2013 at 11:32 am.
Please define “level of socialism”.
Richard
Rob says:
The healthcare system in the USA is clearly BEING broken. (there fixed it for you Rob)
The US pays twice as much for its healthcare in comparison to most 1st world countries, all for an inferior outcome (this is BS, but I can’t expect an Oblivion like yourself to understand that)
CAL says: “… but I am afraid you have just confirmed what my warmist friends have been saying for some time – that this is just a site for right wing propaganda.”
How is it “Right-wing” to oppose Obamacare, when 60% of those expressing an opinion object to the monstrosity crammed down our throats?
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/09/30/rel10a.pdf
Only 40% of Americans consider themselves “conservative”, not 60%. Lots of moderates, independents & Democrats dislike all or parts of the Obamanation, including union members.
crosspatch,
While I generally agree with everything you write, we disagree here:
That system works, but only if the candidate is not lying through his teeth. Obama made many, many promises and assurances, which the electorate took at face value. But as it turned out, he was lying.
Another problem is voter fraud. The more my “Voter Fraud” folder gets filled with examples, the more convinced I am that cheating won Obama’s second election. Our military was effectively disenfranchised — millions of votes never counted, from every state. Many millions more votes were illegally cast by citizens of foreign countries. There are conservatively 32 – 36 million illegal aliens living here, and a large percentage of them voted in the 2012 election.
It does not require across the board cheating [although there was plenty of that going on]. It really only requires a relatively few votes in only a few dozen precincts across the country. Win a critical precinct, and you win the county. Win a critical county, and you win the state, with all its electoral votes. In some precincts, Obama got 110% of the possible votes. More votes were cast and counted than there were registered voters. Meanwhile, Romney got ZERO votes. Hey, you can’t get 100% of Italians to agree the Pope is Catholic! Out of thousands of votes, not one went to Romney?? No way that can happen in the real world.
This is not sour grapes, because we are past the point of no return. Half the country lives off the other half, and they vote. They are forced to vote, where before they were very apathetic. But in 2012, voting for Obama made you part of the “In” crowd.
The only way our democratic system can be fixed is with a wholesale purging of the voter rolls. People were actually bragging about living in Michigan, and driving their RV’s down to Florida — with their absentee ballots cast in every state along the way.
And it is no joke about the dead voting. Crews were paid to cross reference dead people with the voter rolls, and their votes were cast. This used to be a problem in only a few locations. But post 2008, that tactic is being used everywhere by Democrat Party operatives. They have learned to game the system [ie: to cheat], and with the nation’s top cop on Team Obama, who is there to stop them? Anyone?
I firmly believe that if paper ballots were required, and if citizenship had to be verified, Obama would have lost the last election. But that is history. The people in charge cheated to get there, and they are not going to do any fixing. They like things just the way they are.
One thing I forgot to mention with Obamacare is the nannying to follow. Courtesy of our NHS, we get campaigns like “Octsober” no booze for a month and “Stoptober” no cigarettes for a month. Isn’t October miserable enough anyway? Then we have guidelines on units of alcohol, a ban on smoking in public places, being told to eat five portions of fruit and vegetables a day, to exercise, not to eat fatty food. Then there is the paranoia about health and safety, speed camera vans, high vis jackets, hard hats. Another industry has grown up that nannies us from cradle to grave so that we don’t become a burden on the NHS, either by having accidents or falling victim to lifestyle illnesses!
With Obamacare you have it all to come!
“Trust me to tax you and decide how to spend your taxes.”
The Founders of the USA rejected that imposition by King George & Parliament by the Declaration of Independence
By enabling acts for new States, ALL States have mutually required that their constitutions “not be repugnant to” . . .”the principles of the Declaration of Independence”.
“Kings” Obama/Reid have already doubled the national debt.
Now Obama/Reid are obdurantly refusing all negotiations, demanding that
1) They continue spending 23% more than revenue, stealing from our children with unsustainable debt.
2) Forcing us to act contrary to conscience by requiring we pay for abortions and abortifactants.
Join in nullifying unjust orders and laws contrary to the Declaration of Independence and unalienable rights to life. E.g. see
Veterans Remove Barricade Memorials and Bring Them to the White House
Return to our foundational Principles of the Declaration of Independence.
Some may wish to participate in Christian cost sharing programs like Medi-Share that are exempt from Obamacare.
richardscourtney says:
October 13, 2013 at 11:41 am
Gdn:
re your post at October 13, 2013 at 11:32 am.
Please define “level of socialism”.
Equality of distribution and state-run payment system. General high quality care with ‘unequal distribution’ is ranked below lower quality care with ‘equal distribution’.
So by the way the WHO calculates health-care quality, if country x had a given level of health-care, and then they suddenly had big improvements in a few places and smaller increases in other places, the WHO would rank them lower after the change because of the inequality. Likewise a change from individuals being able to generally pay for their own healthcare privately, to the same individuals paying the same amount in taxes for a mythical state-run system would result in a higher rating.
Come on now. This is petty.
REPLY: No, its reality. I honestly thought the problems reported were just hype, until I tried it myself. Not having a security certificate that functions for the entire website is so basic that it deserves to be pointed out – Anthony
Txomin says:
October 13, 2013 at 12:07 pm
Come on now. This is petty.
————————————————————————————————————————-
No. What IS PETTY is spending more money to close down privately funded open air memorials, closing road shoulders so people can’t even look at Mt Rushmore, holding tourists hostage by armed guards, surrounding Old Faithful with government vehicles so tourist’s views are spoiled, exempting Democratic party supporters (both unions and corporations) from the ACA but not individuals, exempting members of Congress from the ACA…….shall I go on?
Obamacare…
My first impression when I listened to the Obamacare policy idea;
A:) EPA
B:) Social Security Administration
C:) DOE (Department of Energy)
D:) FDA (Food and Drug Administrations)
E:) Katrina victims Federal Support
F:) Katrina victims endless paperwork without getting Federal Support
All of the agencies above are massive bureaucracies mired in archaic technologies/processes providing supreme oversight to individual decisions, actions and rights. The agencies grow ever larger, write more requirement and restriction burdens upon citizens. The good they do is not worth the cost nor damage they cause.
Truly scary.
“The USA spends twice what any other modern country does on healthcare per capita and gets lousy or no service for 1/3 its citizens.”
What does the US do that other modern countries do not? The US develops most of the new pharmaceuticals, devices, and techniques. The US public pays for the R&D costs and provides profits to the drug companies until the patents expire and generics can be sold. We then give it away to other countries of the world, including the entire continent of Africa. In short, we are covering a large part of the healthcare costs of the entire world. So not only is the statement above myopic, but when Obamacare fully takes effect, you will likely see the healthcare of the entire world decline.
Qualys SSL Labs has a nice site for grading SSL configuration. They give http://www.coveredca.com an F. https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=coveredca.com
Most of this stuff is not hard to fix, which is why it’s very unprofessional to leave it screwed up.
Being a non USA citizen, I am always impressed with the contrasts that we can find in USA natives. Clearly it’s a 1st world country with lots of small 3rd world countries in it (and a lot in some peoples minds). And where we can listen enlighten ideas like this one, written above, as an example of prevailing XV century ideas:
” NO. Neither Communism nor Obamacare were EVER good ideas. The fruits of my labor do not belong to the “collective.” And I have no “right” to force another person to pay for something I want or need.”
I’am not a communist and I’m not affected by the first part of this sentence, but think a little about the second. These are the kind of ideas that make us think about the world we are living in. So the “common good” it’s not applicable to Health but that’s fine if it is for Military or NSA activities just to name some. This selfish way of thinking it’s just unacceptable! Several millions of US citizens cannot simply have access to the most simple health care despite the fact that they also make part of the US citizenship. Although it’s fine, for the citizens that write things like the above ones, if they enlist in the army and go abroad fight wars and die for the “common good”. So the “common good” it’s only great if does not enter in my pocket! Come on!!!
The fact is that USA has the most costly Health System of the world and ranks only 38Th for the WHO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems
So what you had before this Obamacare attempt was a 1st world system, by cost, but almost 3rd world Health System by WHO standards. This should worry you all US citizens. The so called Obamacare can have merits or can be void of merits but, for sure, it’s an attempt to shake things up, to broaden health care to US citizens that cannot afford the terrible lobby of insurance companies.
Most 1st world countries look at the US health care as an example not to follow. It’s exclusive (for those that have money for it) not inclusive.
Trying to pick on a system based on the functionality of a starting website, in a period where most government systems are down or partially working, it’s simply unfair.
Today I went to NASA and USGS for instance. Judging by their websites, they are bad working organisations right? The sites are down and presenting a message about some sort of “lack of funding”. (sarc).
Anthony, please write about climate and avoid mixing it with policy or any other marginal subject. That’s what’s making the strength of your outstanding site, bringing me here at least twice a day.
I am a PhD geologist with an extensive work in climate science.
Cheers
Jtom says:
October 13, 2013 at 12:24 pm
“…when Obamacare fully takes effect, you will likely see the healthcare of the entire world decline.”
_____________________________________
Which is exactly what many have come to believe is just another part of the real agenda, the big plan… these are the same people who are pushing the AGW agenda and from whom a never ending litany of “population reduction” emanates.
Well lucky you if your site experience was as you say , but who in hell owes you an apology if their Covered California site experience was less than favorable, shall we say, than yours?