Guest essay by Steve Burnett
I have followed Wattsupwiththat for a long time, only posting occasionally if I feel an article or presentation is biased, or if there seems to be some sort of data misrepresentation. I choose to follow watts simply because there is less bias and far more numerical analysis of papers than most other climate news sources. I would certainly consider myself a climate sceptic, but my scepticism is part of everyday analysis for me, I simply don’t believe someone unless they show me the evidence.
It is evidence that is lacking for me on the warmist side of the argument; we simply don’t have a temperature record which is accurate, or long enough to infer some sort of anthropogenic effect. Proxies offer a decent long term view but are poor analogs for climatological variations in the past 200 years or so. Anyone who has worked with computer models should know, they are more likely to display what you want them to display and should always be taken with a grain of salt. Luckily I don’t have to make those arguments; there are plenty of other commentators with better credentials to make those arguments for me. I am but a lowly chemical engineering graduate, who has found neither a job nor academic position in this economy.
Within the past few weeks, a post went up which seemed more interested in ridiculing the author than refuting the claims. I was shocked, and I waited, at first it was a few days, then I let a week pass. All of those people who were more credentialed than I were silent. Certainly there was a comment on Henry’s law but nothing going into the necessary depth for refutation of the claims for doom surrounding ocean acidification. Unfortunately it’s a refutation that we need. Ocean acidification is the carbon controllers pinch hitter, the ace up their sleeve, or other analogous win card.
It’s easy to refute global warming and associated doom based on the contradictory evidence. In the case of ocean acidification its associated doom mechanism is much more difficult. To tackle ocean acidification you need to understand chemistry; pH, alkalinity, buffers, strong vs. weak acids. But you also need to grasp the math; Henry’s law, pH. and equilibrium constants. That’s why most of the time ocean acidification comes up as the last line of defense for carbon controllers, you might not understand it, but neither do they.
Before I begin I would like to acknowledge a couple of points
1. The oceans are acidifying
2. it doesn’t mean anything
If you’re not familiar with the argument here is a video produced from NOAA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuttOKcTPQs
This is an excellent reference point for us; it clearly and concisely lays out the argument. However it waves a hand over the how in favor of visual demonstrations. I will deal with these later but for now let’s talk about the processes underlying ocean acidification.
I have performed several laboratory experiments regarding CO2 and water. The first was to take a sample of river water and start mixing in atmospheric CO2. Using this method we were eventually able to overcome the buffer capacity of water and reached a pH of about 6.3. In another experiment we had a CO2 stripping column with water coming down the column and air with a variable CO2 feed going up. This experiment had already been run multiple times throughout the semester without a water changeover. Because of this my lab partner and I saw higher CO2 concentrations in our outlet stream than our inlet as the CO2 would off gas at anything below 19% concentration which was just slightly below the maximum feed we could add to our column.
To understand acidification you have to understand a little bit about mass transfer. Within a homogenous fluid, that is at equilibrium diffusion essentially forces and maintains an evenly distributed concentration. Whenever there is an interface such as an air to liquid separation then diffusion will occur across the boundary dependent on partial pressures. A partial pressure in the atmosphere can be determined by the system pressure * the percentage of atmospheric composition.
As gasses, even dissolved ones, are heated their pressure goes up, increasing the partial pressure of the material dissolved in liquid. for fixed concentrations heating will increase outgassing and cooling will increase ingassing. We know that the relationship between the amount of gas dissolved in a liquid is directly related to partial pressure so we know the relationships between liquid and gas concentrations at equilibrium will be linear with a modification to the coefficient based on temperature. This is represented by Henry’s law
p.a=k.ha*x.a Equation 1.
with the correction for the henry’s coefficient being denoted in equation 2
K.h(t)=K.h(t.0) *e^(-c*(1/t-1/t.0)) Equation 2
Of course this tells us nothing about pH, but chemistry does. pH was first conceived in 1909 by S. P. L. Sørensen. It was revised in 1924 to be used with electrochemical cells. pH represents the negative log of the hydrogen Ion concentration in solution. So at pH 7 your water has roughly 1*10^-7 moles of hydrogen ions per liter. at pH of 8 there are 1*10^-8 moles/liter of hydrogen ions. commonly the scale extends from 0-14, however pH can go into the negative range and exceed the boundary range of 14. We measure pH through electrochemical cells using the nernst equation. Seen as equation 3, R is the gas constant, T is temperature and F is the faraday constant.
E=E0-2.303*RT/F *(pH) Equation 3
pH meters aren’t simple devices. Essentially the Nernst equation measures electric potential, and plots it with respect to pH. To calibrate these instruments ideally we measure the voltage at a known pH and then at a secondary pH correcting for the slope. There are however so many things that can go wrong in a pH measurement that it is more suited to simply getting an idea of the pH rather than take a reading as gospel.
First a pH meter must be stored so as to maintain a liquid layer over the glass bulb, or else it doesn’t read pH properly. Secondly the Ionic fluid in the meter must be maintained or replaced periodically; otherwise the pH meter is likely to have a poor slope. Calibration solutions should closely match the pH of what you’re trying to measure as the linear slope is only a reasonable approximation within a few pH units. If you aren’t simultaneously measuring temperature and pH in both your buffers and the desired fluid temperature corrections can be off. In short it’s far easier to measure a 1pH unit change than a .1 and .01 and smaller increments are virtually impossible to reliably measure.
So how do we go about acidifying oceans from CO2? for that we have to consider chemical equilibrium. All CO2 dissolved in water will essentially form carbonic acid, given enough time, most of it will change back into CO2. the rate at which CO2 is converting to carbonic acid and carbonic acid back to CO2 eventually balances out so that If we know our CO2 concentration, we can know our carbonic acid concentration as well. The amount of carbonic acid in freshwater is roughly 1.7*10^-3 in pure water and 1.2*10^-3 in seawater. There is substantially less carbonic acid in seawater. So why are we concerned about ocean acidification when rivers and streams can hold more CO2? They also get direct carbonic acid from their rainfall sources. Equation 4 shows the conversion.
CO2+H2O → H2CO3–> CO2 + H2O Equation 4
Carbonic acid does not however make the water more acidic easily. Don’t forget that pH measures the concentration of hydrogen ions in solution. So of the 1.2*10^-3 moles of carbonic acid/ mole of CO2/liter only 2.5*10^-4 moles/mole/mole of hydrogen Ion are produced. This forms the bicarbonate Ion.
H2CO3- → H+ + HCO3- → H2CO3 Equation 5
Because weak acids and weak bases vary back in forth during equilibrium they make excellent buffers.
A buffer is a solution made up of one or more weak acids and bases that can be created to hold a desired pH. Essentially because the weak acids dissociate more frequently with a base present in solution and weak bases with an acid, you can hold the pH of a solution relatively stable. Your buffers pH will only change when you have consumed your entire weak acid or weak base.
The bicarbonate Ion can further dissociate but only 4.69*10^-11 of those ions do so. Now the Rub for the ocean acidification = ecosystem collapse comes from a third reaction in equation 6.
Ca(CO3)2 + 2 H+ → Ca2+ +2HCO3- Equation 6
For some it may not be baffling but let me explain the humor. Calcium carbonate is supposed to react with the Hydrogen atoms to form a free calcium Ion and 2 bicarbonate ions. But wait, the equilibrium concentrations are still going to hold. So as CO2 increases, carbonate Ions the ions “under attack” by ocean acidification WILL ALWAYS INCREASE IN CONCENTRATION!!!!.
But how does that relate to biological organisms. In short anything that needs to make use of carbonate will benefit from an increase in its supply. But there is actual math here too. Behold the Monod equation for microorganism kinetics. U is the specific growth rate, umax is the maximum growth rate, s is the concentration of the limiting substrate and ks is the value of u where u/umax is .5.
u=umax*(s/(k+s)) Equation 7
Essentially what this states is the growth of an organism is tied to the limiting nutrient. So we can conclude that as CO2 increases, Carbonate ions increase, which means that the limiting nutrient for shell production cannot be carbonate. If it was, then an increase in CO2 would correlate to a similar increase in growth for the carbonate dependent species. In the event that carbonate was in such comparative excess there is no conceivable means for the species to be struggling as all of the aqueous carbonate would be consumed at a substantially higher rate than CaCO3 precipitate.
All of this is ignoring the buffer capacity of the oceans; it is immense and tied strongly to the carbonate system. While you can increase the amount of carbonic acid in the sea, in order for CO2 to induce a pH change you would need a massive amount of it both dissolved in the ocean and with a high concentration above in the atmosphere. It is essentially chemically impossible for ocean acidification from CO2 to induce harm on carbonate dependent species. Before we can ever truly figure out whether or not CO2 is causing a problem we need to know the rate the shells are dissolving compared to the rate they are being formed.
Great, now we understand some of the physical, chemical and biological processes underlying the ocean acidification=doom argument. In order to determine the actual effect of increasing CO2 concentration in the atmosphere we have to look at the concentration of CO2 and temperature at 2 points in time as both are changing. For my example I decided to use the EPA’s stated 1.5C temperature increase since 1917 and an increase from 280ppm for my concentration. I used 10C as my current water temperature and 390ppm as my current CO2 concentration. Atmospheric pressure was assumed at 1atm. I also kept hearing a pre-industrial pH value of 8.2. This calculation is done under the assumption that preindustrial pH system was stable and thus increases from emissions will essentially add to the previously existing H+ concentration in the solution.
Our partial pressures for CO2 therefore turn out to be
PreI=397.14 Pa
Modern=553.234 Pa
The modified henry’s coefficient
KhPreI=18.205L*atm/mol
Khmodern=19.191LAtm/mol
Which means our concentrations for preindustrial and modern CO2 are given by equation 8.
C=P/Kh
And the values
PreI=2.153*10^-4 L/mol
Modern=2.845*10^-4 L/mol
Which gives us our H2CO3 concentration in both scenarios
PreI= 2.584*10^-7
Modern=1.476*10^-7
I only used the first dissociation constant as the concentration was already in the 10^-11 values so a 10^-22 values wouldn’t have been significant Leading to a total H ion concentration (from CO2) of
PreI= 6.46*10^-11
Modern=3.69*10^-11
OF course the net difference between these two values
Modern-Prei=2.075*10^-11 H+ ions in solution
So the change in pH is equal to -log(H+new+1*10^-8.2)
so roughly the total increase in carbon emissions has changed the pH to roughly 8.199
That’s not even measurable. In order to see the claimed pH increase the atmospheric increase in CO2 would have to be 100x greater than what has occurred. Surely we can say the acidity, a measure of h+ ions has increased 30% but that’s guaranteed from the chemistry and tells us nothing about the oceanic quality of life.
See to do that we would need to perform an experiment and actually collect data. Unlike global climate change these studies are comparably simple. Get a bucket and a CO2 tank add some corals and oysters and other carbonate loving critters and then set the atmospheric CO2 concentration above the water, find out what happens. Repeat the study for pre-industrial, modern double modern and prehistoric levels of CO2 simply add food and allow Ion exchange. In less than 5-10 years someone could conclusively prove CO2 is causing harm.
Even if you didn’t want to actually collect data there is one other scientific principle that the carbon controllers are violating. That’s the correspondence principal; we can look back at history and watch how CO2 trends match with carbonate critter fossil records. If we actually look back far enough to when CO2 was at its peak levels on this planet we find that most of our mollusks and carbonate dependent organisms evolved at the same time our atmospheric CO2 concentration was over 8,000ppm. Before anyone gets to claim that carbonate organisms are having problems they need to answer why they can’t deal with a CO2 increase of 30% while their ancestors thrived at concentrations higher than 200%. It just doesn’t make sense.
But what about that video?
She starts with 2 clear and noncontroversial statements and then 1 that is somewhat controversial, at least for me. Specifically that increased acidity makes it difficult for Calcium carbonate Ca(Co3-) dependent organisms to survive.
For her first demonstration she drops a block of dry ice into water and and we get to see some bromothymol blue change colors from blue to yellow. So yes she demonstrated that CO2 does make water more acidic. But she also clearly mentioned Atmospheric CO2 having an impact on ocean acidity. By dropping pure CO2 into the water it is essentially creating a system with 100% partial pressure at the liquid vapor interface. Essentially they are increasing the atmospheric CO2 by a factor of 3000.
The second demonstration was more of the same shenanigans. First they divvied up acetic acid vinegar, not carbonic into three concentrations; 1 with none, one with half and one with a concentration straight from the bottle. She then added some calcium carbonate, OOO fizzies. so yes the acid does react with the shell and outgasses CO2. No kidding, that has what to do with a carbonic acid/carbonate system? and that glazes over the fact that a CO2/carbonic acid system has a pKa value of about 6.3, acetic acid is closer to 4.8 it has both a substantially higher dissociation constant and does not form a carbonate complex. Essentially the demonstration showed nothing.
But then came the classic heartwarming moment. The swimming little critter in the oceans of tomorrow, heart wrenching I know. Except wait they took a thin walled shell with no critter and placed it in a solution of unknown composition, with a pH value expected in the oceans of the future, slowly the shell dissolved, really slowly, over several days the critters shell became transparent, oh how sad. For that whole time lapse they could have used two identical shells; one in modern seawater and the other in a tank with a controlled CO2 atmosphere. Instead they literally ch
ose the most meaningless way of demonstrating nothing, they didn’t use a chemically similar environment and they didn’t use actual organisms who regenerate their shell and that is fascinating.
So if you have made it this far and your head hasn’t exploded congratulations Here are some bullet points.
1. It is Interesting to note that we somehow have an accurate measurement of ocean acidity from 200 years ago when the apparatus to measure pH was only invented in 1924 and it wasn’t conceived as a measurement until 1909. It should be impossible to conclude within .1 pH unit the actual oceanic pH 200 years ago.
2. The maximum possible change from atmospheric CO2 pre industrial to today is less than .001 pH units, it is thus impossible to measure
3. Even if we could measure .001 pH units there are plenty of questions on the accuracy and calibration techniques associated with the measurement
3. It is impossible for CO2 to deplete carbonate ions in solution
4. Rivers and freshwater lakes are more susceptible to carbonic acid from atmospheric CO2, so why are we worried about the oceans?
5. It is essentially chemically and biologically impossible for carbonate dependent organisms to suffer from CO2 increases
6. Carbonic acid is not the same as hydrochloric or acetic acid.
7. pH from carbonic acid tells us nothing about the CO2/Carbonate system
8. There have been no experiments to demonstrate harm, only hypothesis and models.
9. The experimental framework for testing carbonate organisms with increasing CO2 is easy, yet unperformed
10. The organisms most susceptible to ocean acidification from CO2 evolved at a time when concentrations were 15 times higher than today.
11. Ocean acidification means nothing if the rate at which CaCO3 is being produced exceeds the rate at which carbonic acid consumes it.
12. The buffer capacity of the ocean is huge and incorporates carbonic acid, further demonstration of CO2 overwhelming this buffer is needed.
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Kasuha says:
July 8, 2013 at 10:32 pm
jimshu says:
July 8, 2013 at 8:44 pm
”1. The oceans are acidifying”
Sorry, but oceans are not acidifying.
“They are becoming less alkaline.” would be far more accurate.
____________________________________________
When you’re standing near the South pole and go away from it, you may insist that you’re becoming less southward but you are still going North. It’s just a wordplay with no practical meaning because your motion doesn’t depend on how you call it.
I’m happy the article did not fall for this wordplay and provided concise analysis instead.
That metaphor has a landmine built in. The fact is that you still have to cross the equator. A solution cannot be come “more acid” until it ceases to be BOTH basic AND neutral. Bases are just as reactive and thus just as problematic as acids and can be quite as dangerous. Alkali flats are inhospitable because of the alkali (a base) so too large a pH will clearly be quite as bad for some as to low. The sole difference between saying the oceans are becoming “more acidic” and “the oceans are gradually neutralizing” and the “oceans are becoming less basic (or alkaline) is emotive. Becoming “more acid” is culturally scary. People “throw acid” at people for evil reasons. Becoming more neutral, which is in fact what is really happening to the oceans, is boring and will not lead to grants.
“To tackle ocean acidification you need to understand chemistry; pH, alkalinity, buffers, strong vs. weak acids. But you also need to grasp the math; Henry’s law, pH. and equilibrium constants. ”
You also need to add underwater volcanoes. There are tens of thousands of kilometres of underwater mid ocean ridge and island arc volcanos, which interact with huge volumes of subsurface seawater at high temperatures. Many of these subsurface volcanic rocks become enriched in carbonate, I know this because I routinely drill through thousands of metres of such carbonate enriched rocks whilst drilling extinct underwater volcanos for gold and copper.
It surprises me that nobody seems pays any attention to the fact that these underwater volcanos exchange huge volumes of carbonate and other minerals with seawater; the average single volcano alone exchanges fluids on a scale of the order of several cubic kilometres of rock, and there are tens of thousands of these underwater volcanos extending all around the oceans about mid ocean ridge systems. They produce and exchange carbonate, as well as huge amounts of highly acidic sulphuric and other acids. Despite this, coral survives just fine all around these volcanos. But nobody seems to take any notice, as most of the coral reef scientists are biologists, not volcanologists. They never look at what is happening beneath the surface, only above.
To take another example of this ignorance of what goes on in the subsurface, cooling magma expels water. There is a theory that pretty much all the world’s water in the land and oceans originated from within the earth, being expelled from cooling magma during the earth’s formation. In other words, all the oceans formed from volcanos, or cooling magma, more specifically. Don’t you think they might have an affect on ocean chemistry?
The very shells etc. that line the seafloor and become limestone and chalk are a buffer. If the water tended acidic, they would be returned to solution and defeat the trend. I’m sure the world’s shellfish have taken the ocean’s pH level in hand long ago and are keeping it just where they want it.
IMHO that’s one of the best technical essays that has appeared here for some considerable time. Well done and thank you.
I was incredibly surprised to actually see the article go up, and even a bit more surprised at the support I received. I wanted to address some common threads that I have seen Just from what my research found.
On alkalinity vs. acidity;
alkalinity is a complex measurement which is supposed to be taken as the entirety of ions in the solution. Alkalinity will increase with increasing CO2 concentration as long as there are solid sources of CaCO3- in the solution, It will be unaffected by simply dissolving CO2 in seawater. Because CO2 does increase the number of H+ (or hydronium or however you would like to call you complexes) the pH does technically drop it however does not drop significantly and the actual drop does not negatively impact the carbonate ions in solution as it would if the acid was a strong acid or more importantly any other kind of acid besides carbonic.
rgbatduke
Thank you for the criticism, it is both constructive and necessary, I hope to refine my argument further with more input and I simply cant do that without devils advocates.
I frankly don’t know why the key scientists seem ignorant on the basic chemistry, I have seen more discussions on models than actual measurements.
I agree that pH fluctuates, I was more specifically calling reference to the claim that we have somehow measured an increase in acidity of 30% and that mans influence has dropped oceanic pH by.1 units. pH fluctuations are very normal in all environmental systems and are driven more by biological emissions than human emissions.
I wasnt arguing that the pH wouldn’t drop with enough CO2 it most assuredly will, but even if the pH drops in a carbonic acid system that is unlikely to have a major effect on carbonate organisms.
Regarding the boundary layer, That is an interesting approach and frankly something I haven’t looked at I was seeking a preliminary basic argument for most surface conditions. Beyond that there are far more exotic processes at work beyond diffusion, acid formation and the carbonate cycle. This aspect exceeded my research at this stage and will certainly have to be included as I continue developing the refutation
Your absolutely correct in many ways about previous pH values being smoothed. Oceanic core samples aren’t just subject to diffusion forces at the boundary layer they also have their own microcosmic pH values as diffusion occurs slowly and there is an abundance of both micro and microorganisms that make this region their home.
At the end of the day I take a somewhat different approach with regards to stressed species in niches environments on the cusp of survival. Simply put they are likely to die out anyways with any environmental change, so goes the march of evolution, in reality only a small handful of scientists will know of and mourn their passing. That’s not to say it wont happen but it certainly isn’t likely to affect global food stocks or collapse the oceanic ecosystem.
again thank you for playing devils advocate, there simply hasn’t been enough discussion on the issue for me to add those points in yet.
The last thread of arguments I would like to address is related to whether or not mollusks will or will not die, ancestral differences etc.
First if carbonate ions aren’t the limiting substrate for shell formation (and they really should be with such incredibly low ion concentrations) then it is possible that with enough carbonic acid, after overcoming the buffer capacity of the oceans, and with a high enough CO2 concentration such that equation 6 strongly proceeds to the right (which would essentially require all other Ca CO3 minerals to have already been consumed) that maybe you could impact the shell production of mollusks. However the claims are very strongly to the statement that CO2 induced acidification depletes the carbonate ion. this is chemically impossible. if the pH changes through other means than yes there would be a problem.
Many thanks for this well explained report. But.
Your assumptions about preindustrial atmospheric CO2 content could be far off because the assumptions about CO2 in climate models are wrong and measurements of CO2 in Victorian times, around 1890, give levels at 490ppmv from various parts of Europe. The methods used then are the same as today, chemical analysis. Ice core data has poor accuracy with CO2 content measurements due to gas migration with ice compaction. (see Dr Salby youtube lecture).
All alarmist assumptions are that it is anthropomorphic CO2 that is the problem but this is 3% of the total annual CO2 budget. Of the 97% most comes from the oceans probably due to CO2 injection at the ocean ridge volcanoes which are rich in CO2 as well as other far more acidic gasses. Land sited volcanoes are also vigorous CO2 producers.
For interest the experiments carried out by Southampton University into acidification were modifies after CO2 produced no effect by adding hydrochloric acid which did start to affect mollusc shells. This was shown as proof of CO2 problems!
rgbatduke says:
Robert, if you haven’t read it you might enjoy my piece called “The Ocean Is Not Getting Acidified“. Here’s one of the figures from that, comparing the size of the claimed change in pH from CO2 by the year 2100 with the daily changes in pH offshore from where I live in California:


The scale along the bottom is in days. Note that the pH of the local ocean here changes more in one day than the entire change predicted for the year 2100.
People have a couple of huge misconceptions about the ocean. One is that the pH is constant, which as the above graph shows is far from true.
The second is the misconception propagated by the author of this article. Everything he says is true, but it leaves out the fact that at the end of the day the pH of the ocean is controlled by life itself. For example, here’s the pH over three different coral reefs:
Again the scale along the bottom is in days. The daily swings are in some cases the size of the total change predicted by 2100, but in this case the swings in pH are being generated by the living creatures of the reef itself! They are not the result of the lovely equations the author posts above. His equations are exactly right, near as I can tell … but only if the oceans were exactly dead.
And that is the missing link in this post. Life, with its complicated carbon chemistry and carbon usage, is a huge factor in the ocean, where every cubic millimeter is pulsing with living things. And as a result, we can’t really tell what will happen due to a change in atmospheric CO2, in other than a general way.
w.
How much of the acidification is due to the deliberate introduction of cyanide to the tested areas?
Refere to; “Effects of Cyanide Fishing on the Coral Reefs……”
http://seagrant.uaf.edu/nosb/papers/2011/mat-su-sharks.php
A question of terminology, Mr. Burnett:
“1. The oceans are acidifying”
Is a change in pH from 8.200 to 8.199 “acidification?” We deniers have declared that the reduction in pH from basic to less basic is NOT acidification. Do we have it wrong? Is any reduction in pH, even to a pH of 10.00, “acidification?”
Thanks for a very enjoyable essay. It’s nice to see basic science without shred of agenda being used in such an articulate and clear way to present the basics of seawater pH changes.
One observation compared to the usual bun fights involved climate science where the battle ground is feedbacks, there seem a shortage of positive feedbacks when it comes to “ocean acidification”.Every feedback seems to be negative. Are there any positive feedbacks in this debate?
son of mulder says:
July 9, 2013 at 4:00 am
….One observation compared to the usual bun fights involved climate science where the battle ground is feedbacks, there seem a shortage of positive feedbacks when it comes to “ocean acidification”.Every feedback seems to be negative. Are there any positive feedbacks in this debate?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes there are a couple.
The buffer system itself reacts to kept the pH within narrow limits and is supported by the lithosphere (rocks) going in an out of solution.
The second as Willis so elegantly showed, is life itself, where the coral reefs act to keep the pH in even narrower limits.
chemistry is easy…
…biochemistry is hard
Calcium is not just floating around for living things to use it…
…they have to make it soluble first
” Gail Combs says:
July 9, 2013 at 4:36 am”
They sound like negative feedbacks to me.
10. The organisms most susceptible to ocean acidification from CO2 evolved at a time when concentrations were 15 times higher than today.
====
Steve, lots of studies….same results
As CO2 increases, production increases…
Most studies compare apples to oranges though….organisms that get their calcium/carbonates from the water…..and ones that get it from their food
All the studies really do is show which organisms stop growing when Ca/Mg/etc is not available…..duh!
Organisms that get it from the water…..increase until they drive enough CO2 into the water (lab only) to deplete Ca/Mg/carbonates….that has nothing to do with CO2
Organisms that get it from food…..continue to increase at all levels
This is a typical “study”….has nothing to do with CO2 other than they used CO2 to deplete Ca/Mg
http://www.unc.edu/~jries/Ries_et_al_09_Geology_Mixed_Responses_to_Ocean_Acidification_full.pdf
Thanks for the nice write up Steve and all of the well thought out comments folks.
Upon consuming 2 cups of coffee and an hour of my work day reading all this good info and exchange of thought, I find myself in a similar position on conclusions again.
Just like AGW, acidification falls into the same category.
When all the known variables are taken into consideration, we simply don’t know the real answers to the simplest questions. How many variables impact either climate or acidification? Thousands,,,,,, millions?
Here is a simple challenge. Let’s just take 3 variables and see if we can quantify the impact on ocean acidity with them.
Take:
-The Amazon river output (including all its content)
– The mid-Atlantic Ridge output
– Throw in pelagic fish poop
Now with only 3 considerations to deal with when calculating the net oceanic PH change, it should be quite easy to calculate, no?
My mind, admittedly, works in strange ways. As I was reading the text regarding the difficulties of accurately measuring pH, I kept thinking that if a large enough number of pH readings of limited accuracy could be accumulated over a sufficient period of time, a pH anomaly of greater accuracy could be computed. (sarc off)
As a physical chemist I salute the clarity of your explanation, Sir! I feel compelled to add that 2 major factors have gone unmentioned, however. Zooplankton are ubiquitous in the oceans, and absorb copious amounts of bicarbonate ion to produce their own exoskeletons – corals in particular form reefs in areas where a solid surface and sunlight (for algae) are both available. Gravity is also a factor, in that the exoskeletons of free-swimming zooplankton are rapidly removed from the ocean currents through application of Archimedes’ Principle, forming limestone on the ocean floor. Limestone formation is a continuous and major process, having created rock formations thousands of feet thick over thousands of miles’ extent. This is a significant carbon ‘sink’ often overlooked and, to my knowledge, never incorporated into computerized climate models.
Ryan says:
July 8, 2013 at 8:22 pm
No they didn’t lol. Their ancestors did. The species alive today have not contended with 500+ ppm CO2 in a LONG time.
==============
No, a few million years, which is not a long time for Nature. Before the Ice Ages the oceans were considerably more acidic (less caustic) than today. Nature did just fine.
Worrying about ocean acidification is like worrying about a small change in average temperature over a period of 100 years, when every day the local temperature varies by 5 to 10 times as much. It life can handle the large change every day it can certainly handle a small change over much longer timescale.
The same thing happens in the oceans. Local pH regularly changes as much as 10 times more than the projected average change over a period of 100 years. So, it life can’t handle a small change over 100 years it surely cannot handle a much larger change over timescales of days or months and the life in the oceans would today all be extinct.
Gamecock says:
July 9, 2013 at 3:48 am
A question of terminology, Mr. Burnett:
Is a change in pH from 8.200 to 8.199 “acidification?”
=========
I was taught that adding an acid to a base was “neutralization”. Also that salts acts as buffers, and will resist any attempts to make the solution acidic. Thus it is easier to make fresh water acidic than it is to make salt water acidic.
There was a big scare about acid rain making fresh water lakes acidic 50 years ago. Then it was discovered the culprit was evergreen trees. Thus, the solution to preventing acidification of lakes and streams was to cut down all the evergreens. As a result, no one talks about acidification of lakes and streams.
Then there was the big scare about frogs. Until it was discovered that frog researchers were the cause of frog death. So no one talks about frogs anymore.
Then there was the big scare about Global Warming, but the globe stopped warming so now no one talks about Global Warming, instead it is Climate Change.
Then there was the big scare about Ocean Acidification, but then it was discovered that the oceans were not acidic, they were caustic, and adding CO2 simply made them less caustic.
Ed Reid says:
July 9, 2013 at 6:32 am
Ed has the solution: an array of pH sensors around the world, averaged together (pHmax-pHmin)/2.
We should get a ph value to 10 decimal places without the need for error bars.
We could then ‘discover’ decadal variations, pacific variations etc
As pH sensor technology improves we can ‘discover’ step changes in pH values that we will need to develop ‘tricks’ to remove.
I am sure that someone bright will discover Volcanic pH islands and develop an algorithm to remove the obvious distortion to the global average pH figure.
I can sea (sic) a whole new field opening up for those who are expert at gaining grants.
“Precise language counts and the debasement of language is the refuge of scoundrels.” [Gail Combs at 11:48PM]
LOL – A follow eye-roller when they walk through the organic food section…. of course it is.
steverichards1984 @ur momisugly July 9, 2013 at 9:04 am
ROTFLMAO. Brilliant!
I would like to add a couple of things: Aragonite is a polymorph of Calcite, (same chemical composition, but different crystal structure.) All modern deposition of Calcium Carbonate is from Aragonite, which over time through a process of diagenesis is changed to either Calcite or Dolomite. This process is controlled by the saturating fluid of the sediments.
Peter Foster wrote: “So changing this from 100,000 years to one year gives an annual precipitation of 8.45 gigatonnes of CO2 removed from the oceans each year.”
This number is basically derived from the rock record, and I believe it can be substantially higher as the oceans warm, which is evidenced by where most of the
modern Carbonates form. Thus with warming a larger portion of the ocean will sequester more CO2 in the form of carbonate sediments. An additional piece of evidence is the amount of Carbonate in the rock record of the Paleozoic. The Permian basin has thousands of feet of Dolomite formed during the period for which it was named.
Carbonates form in numerous ways and although most people understand the formation of carbonate shells by organisms, much of the carbonate record is composed of calcium lime mud, which has few fossil organisms. Other rocks such as Oolites, form behind reefs in current dominated waters, and are apparently an inorganic process. All of the white sand beaches I have visted in the Caribbean and Gulf coast are mainly composed of these grains.
Steve, I very much enjoyed your post, good luck with your job search.
It is calcium carbonate CaCo3,
so equation 6 needs work
Ca(CO3)2 + 2 H+ → Ca2+ +2HCO3- Equation 6
try
CaCO3 + H+ + OH- –> Ca++ + HCO3- + OH-
I like balanced equations
Sometimes Wiki can be a good place to start
“As ambient CO2 partial pressure increases to levels above atmospheric, pH drops, and much of the carbonate ion is converted to bicarbonate ion, which results in higher solubility of Ca2+”
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate
Basically, with lower pH in the water, Ca++ becomes more soluble and calcium carbonate shells are harder for the little beasties to form.