Since it has been mostly silent in the last few months, I didn’t even know Deltoid blog was still up and running, but I’m happy to publish this rebuttal for Matt Ridley against Tim Lambert’s claim that Ridley was wrong 20 years ago in a piece Mr. Lambert has focused on. Mr. Lambert can hopefully learn a few things by reading this, mostly, that he’s out of his league when arguing with Matt Ridley, who’s far more versed in the subject than Lambert. I suppose the word “pwned” might apply here. – Anthony
Nostradamus has nothing on me…
Guest post by Matt Ridley
I first wrote about man-made climate change more than quarter of a century ago in 1986, when I was science editor of The Economist. Here’s what I wrote then:
“If man were not around, the planet would, over several centuries, cool down enough for snow to last through the summer in Europe and much of North America. That snow would accumulate until ice sheets covered the land. The next ice age would have begun.
But man is around, and he has fiddled with the thermostat. In particular, he has burned wood, coal, gas and oil in increasing amounts, turning it into carbon dioxide and steam in the process. At the same time he has cut down forests to make way for agriculture. More carbon dioxide, fewer plants to turn it back into oxygen: as a result carbon-dioxide levels are rising steadily. They have now reached 150% of their pre-industrial levels: about 280 billion tonnes of carbon have been added to the atmosphere.
All this extra carbon dioxide makes the atmosphere slightly less transparent to infra-red rays. More of the earth’s reflected heat stays here rather than escaping to space.so, the planet is getting warmer. Slowly, and erratically (for about 30 years after the second world war the climate cooled slightly), the average temperature of the whole globe is going up. It has risen about ½ degC since 1850. Carbon dioxide takes time to show its effects, though, so even if levels stay the same as they are now, the temperature will continue to climb. If they go on rising, in the next century the temperature will rise by several degrees.
That may not sound much. To the inhabitants of cold countries, it might sound attractive. But it is worrying mainly because of its effect on the oceans and the pattern of climate. If the temperature of the oceans rises, the water expands slightly and the ice caps melt slightly: on present trends, the sea level will rise by between two and ten feet by 2100. That will inundate low-lying parts of the world, including such populous places as Bangladesh and Holland.”
I think you will agree that this is a fairly standard account of the greenhouse effect and – apart from the male pronoun for the species – could have been written today. Very little has changed in the conventional account of global warming. Indeed, today I would change almost none of it. (Almost! Read on.) I am moderately relieved to find that with just a few weeks exposure to the science of global warming I got most of it roughly right. In those days, remember, there was no internet and journalists had to find things out the hard way.
But as the years passed I came to understand more, and soon I no longer accepted every word of the above account. In particular, I discovered something my informants had failed to disclose – that even fast rising levels of carbon dioxide could not on their own generate “several degrees” of warming in a century: for that to happen requires amplification by water vapour. All the models assumed this amplification, but the evidence for it began to look more and more threadbare. So by 1993, six years after the piece just quoted, I no longer thought that 2-10 feet of sea level rise was likely and I no longer thought that several degrees of warming were likely. Instead, I wrote – in a single throwaway sentence in a long piece about eco-scares generally – that
“Global warming, too, has shot its bolt, now that the scientific consensus has settled down on about a degree of temperature increase over a century-that is, little more than has taken place in the past century.”
This was published in a book the Economist put out each year called (in this case) “The world in 1994”. The main prediction of the essay, by the way, was that genetic engineering was the next big eco-scare. I was right, if a few years early, and I did not spot that tomatoes, rather than dolphins, would be the species that touched the heart strings and purse strings of the green movement. I’ll append the essay at the end of this blog post for those that are interested.
I am even prouder of that sentence. At the time such a “lukewarm” view was unfashionable among activists, though not yet among scientists – and you were allowed to say things like that without being treated like a holocaust denier. But it’s not far from what I think now. Since the modal climate sensitivity in all the best studies is now settling down at a bit over 1.5 degC, and since the effect of aerosols, black carbon, ocean heat uptake etc are now all better understood and provide fewer and fewer excuses for high sensitivity models to disagree with data, for me to have come up with “about a degree” two whole decades ago, in a single sentence in an essay on other topics, seems quite surprising. Climate change was not my main interest then: I was writing a book about the evolution of sex having left the Economist to be my own boss.
Indeed, if you take a look at the graph below, you will see that over 34 years, there has been about 0.36 degrees of warming on a rolling average using data from five different sources: or on track for 1.08degC in a century, give or take. About a degree?
Graph from climate4you.com
I am not claiming prescience, more like surprise. As a journalist you get used to cringing at the things you once wrote, usually when you were too much of a slave to the conventional wisdom of the day. In this case, I feel no need to cringe.
Anyway, what’s the point of all this? Well, this sentence, taken out of context, was reprinted last week by a website called Deltoid in a blog post entitled rather strangely “The Australian’s War on Science 81: Matt Ridley’s 20 year old wrong prediction” (I am not an Australian, and I have as far as I recall only once written an article for the newspaper called the Australian; I have enlisted in no war on science – indeed if there is such a war, I’ll join the infantry on science’s side). The sentence was said to have come from the Globe and Mail, a Toronto newspaper that again I have hardly ever written for, in 1993.
Alerted by a tweet from Andrew Revkin, I replied in three tweets a few seconds apart: “I did not write for the Globe and Mail in 1993, let alone about climate…maybe the GandM quoted something else I wrote and anyway…not yet wrong”. This led to a torrent of tweets from some activist claiming I had denied the article, I was an idiot, etc. Good luck to him. Anyway somebody –- actually Gavin Schmidt – then kindly posted the article on the Deltoid website (the “owner” of which, Tim Lambert, had failed to do me the courtesy of letting me know he was posting this strange attack) so I could check that yes, I did write it and that yes unbeknownst to me the Globe and Mail did reprint it, presumably with the permission of the Economist, on the last day of 1993.
Now for all I know Tim Lambert may be very good at his day job, which is lecturing in computer graphics at the University of New South Wales. He may also be charming company. But let’s just parse his headline. “Matt Ridley’s 20-year-old wrong prediction”. In what way was it wrong? One fifth of a century has passed since I wrote that sentence – I’d hardly call it a prediction, more an assessment – so how can it be wrong yet to say that there will be a degree of warming in a century? And since the fullest data set over the longest period shows that we are on track for 1.08 degrees of warming in a century, “about a degree” is looking pretty good so far, though of course it is far too early to tell. I’m not claiming it was right, just that it’s 80 years premature to call it wrong.
But Lambert seemed to be under the impression that it was obvious that I was already wrong. In a series of tweets and in a very odd, cherry-picked graph with no data source cited, he kept insisting that there’s been 0.4 degrees of warming between 1993 and 2013. I showed him the above graph. Since 1993 was the low point of the post-Pinatubo cooling (conveniently) and by ignoring the black average line in the above graph but taking the one data point that is November 2012, he claimed justification. “UAH 0.42 warming over baseline. 1993 temp on baseline,” he tweeted. At this I have to admit, I burst out laughing so loudly my dog woke up. Truly the mind boggleth.
There ensued a silly little twitter war of words in which Lambert refused me room to reply in a blog post with diagrams – the comments space of his website does not fit diagrams — while a chorus of tweeters heaped abuse on my head. This is what passes for debate in climate science, or computer graphics departments, these days.
Now, let’s look at some predictions that HAVE failed.
First, the IPCC’s many models, only two of which looks any good at this stage. The rest have all overshot the real world by some margin. Woops.
Chart by John Christy.
Then James Hansen:
Chart from kaltesonne.de
All three of his scenarios were wildly higher than what actually happened, even though carbon dioxide emissions were HIGHER than in all three of his models.
Then IPCC again, this time for methane:
Chart from the leaked IPCC report.
Er, back to the drawing board, lads.
Now look, fellers, you do this kind of thing for a living. I’m just a self-employed writer with no back-up team, no government grants, no taxpayer salary, no computer simulations, and absolutely no pretensions to being Nostradamus about anything. But it strikes me I did a far better job of predicting the climate back in 1993 than any of you! How could that be?
Anyway, the whole episode was depressing in two ways.
First, it’s a little sad that a lecturer in computer graphics took the trouble to look up a sentence a freelance journalist wrote 20 years ago in a piece about something else and falsely claimed it was already “wrong” when it isn’t, and would hardly matter if it was. Does he not have anything better to do?
Second, it’s also a little sad to read just how little has changed in the climate debate since then. If I could travel back in time and tell my 34-year-old self in 1993 that I would be roughly right to take a “lukewarm” view about global warming, but that in the meantime the world would ignore me and would instead spend hundreds of billions of dollars on ways to prevent the poor getting rich with cheap electricity, on destroying rain forests to grow biofuels, on spoiling landscapes with windmills to provide less than half a percent of the world’s energy, and on annual conferences for tens of thousands of pampered activists, then surely my younger self would gape in disbelief.
Anyway, here’s the 1993 essay in case you’re interested.
=======================================================
The Globe and Mail (Canada), December 31, 1993 Friday
THE WORLD IN 1994 IDEAS ENVIRONMENT The Next Eco-Scare: Some environmental crises are genuine; others are carefully exploited fundraising bonanzas
By MATT RIDLEY The Economist
Like sharks, environmentalists must move forward or die. Without a constant supply of new incidents, new buzzwords and, above all, new threats, they cannot keep scaring people into sending the money that pays their salaries. For this reason alone, 1994 will produce a fresh crop of environmental scares. Not all will be bogus, but judging by the recent track record of the greens, many will.
The environmental movement has become increasingly driven by the push of marketing, rather than the pull of public outrage. When that happens to organizations, priorities change. For example, scientists at one of the biggest wildlife charities were firmly against arguing for an ivory-trade ban in 1989; they thought it would be bad for elephants. But their marketing people saw rival organizations, which had endorsed a ban, reaping large rewards from direct-mail campaigns. It was not long before the charity was urging an end to the ivory trade.
This takeover by marketing types is having an insidious effect. In the past, environmentalists were essentially reactive. It took an external event to trigger their campaigns: the Yom Kippur War led to the oil crisis, the hot American summer of 1988 made the greenhouse effect newsworthy. But that is not the way things work in the public relations world. Does Madonna just record a song and wait to see how popular it gets? Does Steven Spielberg make a film about dinosaurs and hope it sells? No, they hype their products, whether they are good or bad. And so, soon, will environmentalists.
If you were to design the next environmental threat, what you would come up with would be a scare that is invisible (like radiation), global (like the greenhouse effect), irreversible (like rain forest destruction), cancer-causing (like dioxin) and singles out furry animals (like a Canadian seal-clubber). To sharpen your marketing skills, invent the next threat out of these building blocks.
All over the world, as you read this, groups of environmental fundraisers are trying to think up next year’s top-selling Cassandra album. They remember the great hits of the 1980s: acid rain, Chernobyl, global warming, the ozone layer, Exxon Valdez, the ivory ban. Each was a fundraising bonanza. The 1990s have been less kind to them. When the Braer oil tanker went aground on Shetland in January, 1993, it was a bonanza for the newspapers: Environmental groups rushed to place advertisements featuring photographs of oil-soaked birds-photographs that had been kept on file for exactly this eventuality ever since the Persian Gulf War.
The Braer was, however, more of a disaster for the environmental movement than for the shags of Shetland (let alone the Socotra cormorants of the Arabian Gulf whose pictures adorned the advertisements). The oil quickly dispersed in heavy gales and did minimal damage.
As a consequence, oil spills have lost some of their power to extract funds from people’s pockets. Global warming, too, has shot its bolt, now that the scientific consensus has settled down on about a degree of temperature increase over a century-that is, little more than has taken place in the past century.
Biodiversity has some mileage left in it, because the rain forests are shrinking as fast as ever and nobody has come up with any good ideas of what to do about it, except form committees at the United Nations. Various follow-ups to the Rio convention of 1992 will take place in 1994, providing some opportunities for tugging heartstrings about the plight of Indians, three-toed sloths and esoteric fungi. But even Sting, a pop star, has wearied a little of the cynicism of the Indians he bought land for (they sold it to loggers).
Radioactivity? Not unless there’s another Chernobyl. The ozone layer? The public is bored. Electric fields causing cancer? Worth a try, but the studies keep coming up blank (try cellular phones instead). What about reviving the fads of the 1970s for predicting shortages of oil, food, water and raw materials? It will not wash; the elementary lessons of supply, demand and price substitution were too well taught by the 1980s.
One human ailment that is getting steadily worse is allergy. The evidence that allergies are diseases of the modern, technological world is now impressive (farmers and Victorian heroines rarely get allergies; only modern townspeople), and the deduction that they are somehow caused by air pollution is natural. If a scientist in 1994 can prove a link between, say, air pollution and allergies, then he or she can be sure of igniting a good campaign drawing attention to the “collapse of the human immune system.”
The other threat to raise will be genetic engineering. Suppose a genetically engineered virus designed to attack rabbits or aphids were to escape from a laboratory and start killing dolphins or cats; the leaflet writes itself long before the virus actually escapes. “This laboratory is creating cancer-causing viruses that could condemn one of nature’s most intelligent creatures to a lingering extinction, upset the fragile ecological balance of the biosphere and mutate into a deadly human plague. Don’t let it happen. Xed Jabong, lead guitarist of The Radical Sheep, urges you to help us act now.” You have been warned.
Matt Ridley is former science editor and U.S. editor of The Economist, and is the author of The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature.
Related articles
- Matt Ridley responds with a “sleight of hand” (scienceblogs.com)
Each side first plots out then trots out graphs each with a strategically chosen beginning point, but we need to keep an eye on the ball, don’t we? How much effect in any of this, if any, is anthropogenic? It seems to me that that is the only thing worth arguing about.
Rick Bradford says:
January 16, 2013 at 1:38 am
Lambert’s blog is the Mary Celeste of the online world.
A ghostly ship drifting from nowhere to nowhere and uninhabited except for a few manic cackles from the departed.
You must be thinking of the mythical Flying Dutchman. He and his blog are condemmed to sail the high seas of the internet, purposeless, and with no living souls aboard.
The Mary Celeste was very real, the only mystery being what happened to the inhabitants.
izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 2:28 am
———————————————————————————————————
izen says a bunch of BS about how S.L rise is accelerating. It is not.
Some reports state that sea level rise poses a threat to United States natural habitats, with other reports focusing on risks to developed areas. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) temperatures due to human activity began to rise after 1980, but estimates of sea level show a rise from about 1870 (earliest records) at a nearly linear rate and with no sign of acceleration. Sea level rise from 1870 to 1980 is not likely due to human activity. One report indicates that IPCC has projected a sea level rise of 0.4 to 2 m by 2090, but the fourth IPCC report does not make such a claim, instead giving a best estimate of 0.28 to 0.43 m. Recent levels of rise (http://sealevel.colorado.edu), at 3.1 mm/year long-term trend or 0.31 m in 100 years with no indication of “acceleration,” are only consistent with the lowest IPCC projections. In fact, recent deceleration of the rate of rise (Houston and Dean 2011) has been detected. Examples of papers that projected sea level increases lower than the range discussed in the fourth IPCC report are Bouwer (2011), Chu et al. (2010), Czymzik et al. (2010), and Xie et al. (2010).
http://suyts.wordpress.com/2012/09/01/jason-i-the-other-killed-satellite/
http://climate4you.com/SeaTemperatures.htm
Glacial isostatic adjustment (GIA) is routinely used to adjust sea-level trends determined from tide-gauge data to improve estimates of worldwide sea-level rise. This adjustment may be appropriate for formerly glaciated high-latitude (referred to as FGHL) areas where vertical land motions due to GIA are large compared with motions produced by other phenomena. However, since GIA is only one component of vertical motion, does adjusting for it outside FGHL areas improve sea-level rise estimates or bias them? We compare global positioning system (GPS) gauge measurements with the vertical land-motion component of GIA predictions at 147 worldwide locations that are near tide gauges and outside FGHL areas and find remarkably little correlation. We analyze the data in several ways to determine the source of the lack of correlation. We also find that the average vertical motion for the 147 locations measured by GPS is subsidence, whereas the average GIA prediction is zero.”
Tha’ts worth repeating: “the average vertical motion for the 147 locations measured by GPS is subsidence, whereas the average GIA prediction is zero.”
http://www.jcronline.org/doi/abs/10.2112/JCOASTRES-D-11-00227.1
Izen, the recent warming is but a tiny blip of noise compared to past temperature excursions.
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/noaa_gisp2_icecore_anim3.gif
izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 2:28 am
Which planet are you on at the moment?
http://sppiblog.org/news/new-paper-shows-ipcc-models-exaggerate-warming-from-water-vapor
http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/cmb/images/indicators/sea-level-rise.gif
You’re the one who is ‘obviously mistaken’ (assuming you’re on planet earth).
Henry Galt:
At January 16, 2013 at 4:21 am you ask izen
Please show some compassion: [snip . . possibly but over the line . . mod] . 🙂
Richard
In the interests of fairness, I should point out that my post at Deltoid;s blog has indeed been published there.
But there has been no answer as yet to the question I asked:
‘Did Lambert really refuse him space here to make his case?’
I also am a former long-time Economist subscriber. Politics intensified and economics faded. My favorite part had been the international data section on the back pages. Of course all of that data is now a Google search away.
I think the replacement of content with blather was forced by changes in the publishing environment. They could not survive today doing what they used to do. With information and good writing free for those willing to hunt, they may have been forced into the role of providing comfort and affirmation to mainstream narratives.
e.g. There were probably five popular econ blogs writing about the platinum coin before they could publish. That used to be their readership. How could they be relevant?
izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 3:54 am
By “credible predictions”, do you mean from computer models that were programmed to make those very predictions?
By “warming will continue” do you understand it has been warming since the LIA, and so may or may not continue to do so–until the next Ice Age commences?
By “if the rise in atmospheric CO2 was stopped tomorrow” do you realize it is preferable to increase CO2 so the biosphere fluorishes rather than to lie and say such an increase is catastrophic to our climate (ask any geologist what the earth was like with far higher levels than we currently enjoy)?
It sounds like you enjoy drama, izen, but can you do much if anything to control a chaotic system that is getting better in terms of foodstuff production? Or are you one of those people that would prefer a much smaller world population? And are you willing to be included in the portion “reduced”?
Inquiring minds want to know.
izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 2:28 am
—————–
I’ve only been a participant in the climate debate for six months but I have built a flat mathematical spreadsheet to predict planetary temperatures based roughly on the (incomplete) http://bartonpaullevenson.com/NewPlanetTemps.html model using the Stefan-Boltzman constant, and would you believe there’s a Beer-Lambert Law, no relation to Tim I think though being an Aussie he’s probably no stranger to beer.
@inez, until you’ve done the basic math you can’t really claim to understand the greenhouse effect. My model is probably very similar to the equations that Hansen based his 1988 claims on. By now, Planet Earth should be a full 1K hotter than it is.
But for some reason that nobody understands, and let me state that although we have numerous hypotheses, if they made talking $hit a capital offence it would solve the population explosion overnight– where was I. Yes. Contrary to all expectations there is some kind of negative feedback preventing global temperatures from rising. My own theory is that the hiatus in warming almost exactly coincides with Vladimir Putin’s terms in office as President and Prime Minister of the Russian Republic, and I would not put anything past the KGB, or FSB as Putin’s colleagues are now known. Prove me wrong.
Apart from that, @izen, I don’t have major disagreements with anything you say, because I believe that a warm planet is a happy planet. The Greenlanders are reportedly rather pleased with the warmer climate that wicked Big Oil has forced upon them. The Canooks, Mongolians, Siberians, Finns, and Inuits aren’t complaining either. There is nothing in the 26 dimensions of superstring theory that says one morality is better than another, and your sense of outrage that the earth is failing to remain at one arbitrarily selected “ideal” temperature, is misplaced. So let’s all just crack a beer and, well, chill.
” trafamadore says:
January 15, 2013 at 6:35 pm
Keyes says: “is climate science the only branch of science that manages to consume tens of billions of dollars”
At least in the US, 1.4 billion in 2011. Not tens of billiions. What uses tens of billions? cancer research, diabetes, those sorts of things.”
_*_*_*_*_*_*_*__*__*_*_*_*_*_*_*
Well, according to this Forbes article, the US Government Accounting Office brings your number into question.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2011/08/23/the-alarming-cost-of-climate-change-hysteria/
Maybe the government report is off by a margin but, $8.8 B in 2010 and $106.7 B from 2003 to 2010 makes it seem highly unlikely that spending in 2011 is only $1.4 B. Where are you getting this seemingly ridiculously low number from?
I see what they did with that Ridley prediction. Thanks Matt for revealing tricky chart science. The chart science is spreading…see Guardian – “2012 among the 10 warmest years on record, figures show”
izen, FYI, increased water vapor is a PROPOSED feedback to increased CO2. It has, however, not been observed in the real world. In fact water vapor in its various roles may well act to reduce the impact of CO2.
izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 3:54 am
Additionally I know of no credible predictions that the main indicators of warming in the SSTs, sea level, ice melt and humidity rise are going to reverse any time soon. In fact the vast, overwhelming majority of scientific understanding of this issue is that warming will continue for another century at least even if the rise in atmospheric CO2 was stopped tommorrow.
Logic – total Fail. Nobody but a complete idiot would expect the effects of warming to suddenly reverse themselves. Despite the fact the warming has stopped the last 16 or so years (and counting), we are still warmer (though the actual amount of warming has been skewed upwards by the faulty temperature records).
As far as your “the warming will continue”, that is simply a faith-based statement. Indications are that we’ll be cooling the next few decades. C02’s warming powers have been vastly overrated.
@- Gail Combs
“Water vapor (relative humidity) is declining graph”
Wrong, Humidity is rising –
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2010JD014192/abstract
Even WUWT acknowledges that truth. –
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/29/reanalyses-find-rising-humidity-in-the-arctic/
@-“Sea Level rise is leveling off and actually declining slightly”
Wrong, sea level rise may pause and accelerate along with ENSO but archeological and eclipse records confirm that sea level was stable and trendless for thousands of years until the recent warming.
@-John Finn
“Teasing out the CO2 contribution to warming is nigh on impossible but, after playing around with the available data (all datasets), I’m inclined to go with the Ridley estimate of around 1 deg (perhaps 1.5 deg) warming for 2xCO2.”
I am sorry but I see no reason to find the agreement between you and Matt Ridley as more compelling than the slightly higher (2.5degC) sensitivity than Baysian analysis derives from the work of thousands of scientists over the last 100 years.
@-Billy Liar
“Which planet are you on at the moment?
[LINK- to the Sun, D.-Z., Y. Yu, and T. Zhang, 2009: paper on humidity”
That paper is 4 years old and is specifically about computer models NOT direct observations. for the current observed changes see the paper I linked above.
@-RockyRoad
“It sounds like you enjoy drama, izen, but can you do much if anything to control a chaotic system that is getting better in terms of foodstuff production? Or are you one of those people that would prefer a much smaller world population? And are you willing to be included in the portion “reduced”? ”
I prefer to avoid drama, Human city based civilisation emerged during the vetry stable climate of the Holocene over the last ~7000 years. Most of our agricultural systems are dependent on that climate stability, when it becomes more varied (hotter or colder) civilisations collapse.
I am unconvinced that modern technocratic civilisations are any more resilient than Roman, Mayan Aztec, Anasazi, Chan, Cambodian or any of the other major world civilisations that have failed in the past freom the stresses caused by climate variation.
izod … if you consider the climate over the last 7000 years to be stable then you must have swallowed a hockey stick… 🙂
@- MikeP
” if you consider the climate over the last 7000 years to be stable then you must have swallowed a hockey stick… :)”
No just perused the Antartic ice cores.
have a look at the climate varience in previous interstadels.
smac says:January 16, 2013 at 7:07 am
” trafamadore says:
January 15, 2013 at 6:35 pm
==========================
Tralamadore often makes statements that he can’t support. When he is challenged to show, he ignores it.
Izod … by the way, what do eclipse records have to do with sea level? Tidal ranges change slowly as continents drift and the moon gets further away. Eclipses can say something about the rate at which the moon is receding and whether or not the rate has been stable, but what does that have to do with the price of eggs?
Ron says:
January 16, 2013 at 5:31 am
Each side first plots out then trots out graphs each with a strategically chosen beginning point, but we need to keep an eye on the ball, don’t we? …
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You have a problem “graphs each with a strategically chosen beginning point”? Ok then How about This One?
Bruce Cobb says:
January 16, 2013 at 5:40 am
… You must be thinking of the mythical Flying Dutchman…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
He is not mythical to some of us The Flying Dutchman
@izen: Sea level not rising.
http://sppiblog.org/news/sea-level-is-not-rising
Apologies Izen … I don’t know how I turned izen into izod. No slights or cleverness intended.
smac says: “Maybe the government report is off by a margin but, $8.8 B in 2010 and $106.7 B from 2003 to 2010 makes it seem highly unlikely that spending in 2011 is only $1.4 B. Where are you getting this seemingly ridiculously low number from?”
I believe your numbers are correct. However, the initial Q that I commented on was about _climate research_ not spending related to climate warming. Sort of two different things.
I dont remember where I got that number, some google search, but it seems real enuf. The total NSF budget request for 2013 is only a little over 7 billion, and, I don’t know, maybe 1/20 or 1/10 of that number might go to climate, so that would be a portion. And then there is NASA and Energy, I dont know what their budgets are, I think smaller, but it might add up to about a billion or so.
I am surprised that IPCC rules allow for near term predictions.
Quantitative predictions are falsifiable. And when wrong science gives the wrong answers, it’s important.