Matt Ridley responds to Tim Lambert's War @ Deltoid

Since it has been mostly silent in the last few months, I didn’t even know Deltoid blog was still up and running, but I’m happy to publish this rebuttal for Matt Ridley against Tim Lambert’s claim that Ridley was wrong 20 years ago in a piece Mr. Lambert has focused on. Mr. Lambert can hopefully learn a few things by reading this, mostly, that he’s out of his league when arguing with Matt Ridley, who’s far more versed in the subject than Lambert. I suppose the word “pwned” might apply here. – Anthony

Nostradamus has nothing on me…

Guest post by Matt Ridley

I first wrote about man-made climate change more than quarter of a century ago in 1986, when I was science editor of The Economist. Here’s what I wrote then:

“If man were not around, the planet would, over several centuries, cool down enough for snow to last through the summer in Europe and much of North America. That snow would accumulate until ice sheets covered the land. The next ice age would have begun.

But man is around, and he has fiddled with the thermostat. In particular, he has burned wood, coal, gas and oil in increasing amounts, turning it into carbon dioxide and steam in the process. At the same time he has cut down forests to make way for agriculture. More carbon dioxide, fewer plants to turn it back into oxygen: as a result carbon-dioxide levels are rising steadily. They have now reached 150% of their pre-industrial levels: about 280 billion tonnes of carbon have been added to the atmosphere.

All this extra carbon dioxide makes the atmosphere slightly less transparent to infra-red rays. More of the earth’s reflected heat stays here rather than escaping to space.so, the planet is getting warmer. Slowly, and erratically (for about 30 years after the second world war the climate cooled slightly), the average temperature of the whole globe is going up. It has risen about ½ degC since 1850. Carbon dioxide takes time to show its effects, though, so even if levels stay the same as they are now, the temperature will continue to climb. If they go on rising, in the next century the temperature will rise by several degrees.

That may not sound much. To the inhabitants of cold countries, it might sound attractive. But it is worrying mainly because of its effect on the oceans and the pattern of climate. If the temperature of the oceans rises, the water expands slightly and the ice caps melt slightly: on present trends, the sea level will rise by between two and ten feet by 2100. That will inundate low-lying parts of the world, including such populous places as Bangladesh and Holland.”

I think you will agree that this is a fairly standard account of the greenhouse effect and – apart from the male pronoun for the species – could have been written today. Very little has changed in the conventional account of global warming. Indeed, today I would change almost none of it. (Almost! Read on.) I am moderately relieved to find that with just a few weeks exposure to the science of global warming I got most of it roughly right. In those days, remember, there was no internet and journalists had to find things out the hard way.

But as the years passed I came to understand more, and soon I no longer accepted every word of the above account. In particular, I discovered something my informants had failed to disclose – that even fast rising levels of carbon dioxide could not on their own generate “several degrees” of warming in a century: for that to happen requires amplification by water vapour. All the models assumed this amplification, but the evidence for it began to look more and more threadbare. So by 1993, six years after the piece just quoted, I no longer thought that 2-10 feet of sea level rise was likely and I no longer thought that several degrees of warming were likely. Instead, I wrote – in a single throwaway sentence in a long piece about eco-scares generally – that

“Global warming, too, has shot its bolt, now that the scientific consensus has settled down on about a degree of temperature increase over a century-that is, little more than has taken place in the past century.”

This was published in a book the Economist put out each year called (in this case) “The world in 1994”. The main prediction of the essay, by the way, was that genetic engineering was the next big eco-scare. I was right, if a few years early, and I did not spot that tomatoes, rather than dolphins, would be the species that touched the heart strings and purse strings of the green movement. I’ll append the essay at the end of this blog post for those that are interested.

I am even prouder of that sentence. At the time such a “lukewarm” view was unfashionable among activists, though not yet among scientists – and you were allowed to say things like that without being treated like a holocaust denier. But it’s not far from what I think now. Since the modal climate sensitivity in all the best studies is now settling down at a bit over 1.5 degC, and since the effect of aerosols, black carbon, ocean heat uptake etc are now all better understood and provide fewer and fewer excuses for high sensitivity models to disagree with data, for me to have come up with “about a degree” two whole decades ago, in a single sentence in an essay on other topics, seems quite surprising. Climate change was not my main interest then: I was writing a book about the evolution of sex having left the Economist to be my own boss.

Indeed, if you take a look at the graph below, you will see that over 34 years, there has been about 0.36 degrees of warming on a rolling average using data from five different sources: or on track for 1.08degC in a century, give or take. About a degree?

clip_image002

Graph from climate4you.com

I am not claiming prescience, more like surprise. As a journalist you get used to cringing at the things you once wrote, usually when you were too much of a slave to the conventional wisdom of the day. In this case, I feel no need to cringe.

Anyway, what’s the point of all this? Well, this sentence, taken out of context, was reprinted last week by a website called Deltoid in a blog post entitled rather strangely “The Australian’s War on Science 81: Matt Ridley’s 20 year old wrong prediction” (I am not an Australian, and I have as far as I recall only once written an article for the newspaper called the Australian; I have enlisted in no war on science – indeed if there is such a war, I’ll join the infantry on science’s side). The sentence was said to have come from the Globe and Mail, a Toronto newspaper that again I have hardly ever written for, in 1993.

Alerted by a tweet from Andrew Revkin, I replied in three tweets a few seconds apart: “I did not write for the Globe and Mail in 1993, let alone about climate…maybe the GandM quoted something else I wrote and anyway…not yet wrong”. This led to a torrent of tweets from some activist claiming I had denied the article, I was an idiot, etc. Good luck to him. Anyway somebody –- actually Gavin Schmidt – then kindly posted the article on the Deltoid website (the “owner” of which, Tim Lambert, had failed to do me the courtesy of letting me know he was posting this strange attack) so I could check that yes, I did write it and that yes unbeknownst to me the Globe and Mail did reprint it, presumably with the permission of the Economist, on the last day of 1993.

Now for all I know Tim Lambert may be very good at his day job, which is lecturing in computer graphics at the University of New South Wales. He may also be charming company. But let’s just parse his headline. “Matt Ridley’s 20-year-old wrong prediction”. In what way was it wrong? One fifth of a century has passed since I wrote that sentence – I’d hardly call it a prediction, more an assessment – so how can it be wrong yet to say that there will be a degree of warming in a century? And since the fullest data set over the longest period shows that we are on track for 1.08 degrees of warming in a century, “about a degree” is looking pretty good so far, though of course it is far too early to tell. I’m not claiming it was right, just that it’s 80 years premature to call it wrong.

But Lambert seemed to be under the impression that it was obvious that I was already wrong. In a series of tweets and in a very odd, cherry-picked graph with no data source cited, he kept insisting that there’s been 0.4 degrees of warming between 1993 and 2013. I showed him the above graph. Since 1993 was the low point of the post-Pinatubo cooling (conveniently) and by ignoring the black average line in the above graph but taking the one data point that is November 2012, he claimed justification. “UAH 0.42 warming over baseline. 1993 temp on baseline,” he tweeted. At this I have to admit, I burst out laughing so loudly my dog woke up. Truly the mind boggleth.

There ensued a silly little twitter war of words in which Lambert refused me room to reply in a blog post with diagrams – the comments space of his website does not fit diagrams — while a chorus of tweeters heaped abuse on my head. This is what passes for debate in climate science, or computer graphics departments, these days.

Now, let’s look at some predictions that HAVE failed.

First, the IPCC’s many models, only two of which looks any good at this stage. The rest have all overshot the real world by some margin. Woops.

clip_image004

Chart by John Christy.

Then James Hansen:

clip_image006

Chart from kaltesonne.de

All three of his scenarios were wildly higher than what actually happened, even though carbon dioxide emissions were HIGHER than in all three of his models.

Then IPCC again, this time for methane:

clip_image008

Chart from the leaked IPCC report.

Er, back to the drawing board, lads.

Now look, fellers, you do this kind of thing for a living. I’m just a self-employed writer with no back-up team, no government grants, no taxpayer salary, no computer simulations, and absolutely no pretensions to being Nostradamus about anything. But it strikes me I did a far better job of predicting the climate back in 1993 than any of you! How could that be?

Anyway, the whole episode was depressing in two ways.

First, it’s a little sad that a lecturer in computer graphics took the trouble to look up a sentence a freelance journalist wrote 20 years ago in a piece about something else and falsely claimed it was already “wrong” when it isn’t, and would hardly matter if it was. Does he not have anything better to do?

Second, it’s also a little sad to read just how little has changed in the climate debate since then. If I could travel back in time and tell my 34-year-old self in 1993 that I would be roughly right to take a “lukewarm” view about global warming, but that in the meantime the world would ignore me and would instead spend hundreds of billions of dollars on ways to prevent the poor getting rich with cheap electricity, on destroying rain forests to grow biofuels, on spoiling landscapes with windmills to provide less than half a percent of the world’s energy, and on annual conferences for tens of thousands of pampered activists, then surely my younger self would gape in disbelief.

Anyway, here’s the 1993 essay in case you’re interested.

=======================================================

The Globe and Mail (Canada), December 31, 1993 Friday

THE WORLD IN 1994 IDEAS ENVIRONMENT
The Next Eco-Scare: Some environmental crises are genuine; others are carefully exploited fundraising bonanzas

By MATT RIDLEY
 The Economist

Like sharks, environmentalists must move forward or die. Without a constant supply of new incidents, new buzzwords and, above all, new threats, they cannot keep scaring people into sending the money that pays their salaries. For this reason alone, 1994 will produce a fresh crop of environmental scares. Not all will be bogus, but judging by the recent track record of the greens, many will.

The environmental movement has become increasingly driven by the push of marketing, rather than the pull of public outrage. When that happens to organizations, priorities change. For example, scientists at one of the biggest wildlife charities were firmly against arguing for an ivory-trade ban in 1989; they thought it would be bad for elephants. But their
marketing people saw rival organizations, which had endorsed a ban, reaping large rewards from direct-mail campaigns. It was not long before the charity was urging an end to the ivory trade.

This takeover by marketing types is having an insidious effect. In the past, environmentalists were essentially reactive. It took an external event to trigger their campaigns: the Yom Kippur War led to the oil crisis, the hot American summer of 1988 made the greenhouse effect newsworthy. But that is not the way things work in the public relations world. Does Madonna just record a song and wait to see how popular it gets? Does Steven Spielberg make a film about dinosaurs and hope it sells? No, they hype their products, whether they are good or bad. And so, soon, will environmentalists.

If you were to design the next environmental threat, what you would come up with would be a scare that is invisible (like radiation), global (like the greenhouse effect), irreversible (like rain forest destruction), cancer-causing (like dioxin) and singles out furry animals (like a Canadian seal-clubber). To sharpen your marketing skills, invent the next threat out of these building blocks.

All over the world, as you read this, groups of environmental fundraisers are trying to think up next year’s top-selling Cassandra album. They remember the great hits of the 1980s: acid rain, Chernobyl, global warming, the ozone layer, Exxon Valdez, the ivory ban. Each was a fundraising bonanza. The 1990s have been less kind to them. When the Braer oil tanker went aground on Shetland in January, 1993, it was a bonanza for the newspapers: Environmental groups rushed to place advertisements featuring photographs of oil-soaked birds-photographs that had been kept on file for exactly this eventuality ever since the Persian Gulf War.

The
Braer was, however, more of a disaster for the environmental movement than for the shags of Shetland (let alone the Socotra cormorants of the Arabian Gulf whose pictures adorned the advertisements). The oil quickly dispersed in heavy gales and did minimal damage.

As a consequence, oil spills have lost some of their power to extract funds from people’s pockets. Global warming, too, has shot its bolt, now that the scientific consensus has settled down on about a degree of temperature increase over a century-that is, little more than has taken place in the past century.

Biodiversity has some mileage left in it, because the rain forests are shrinking as fast as ever and nobody has come up with any good ideas of what to do about it, except form committees at the United Nations. Various follow-ups to the Rio convention of 1992 will take place in 1994, providing some opportunities for tugging heartstrings about the plight of Indians, three-toed sloths and esoteric fungi. But even Sting, a pop star, has wearied a little of the cynicism of the Indians he bought land for (they sold it to loggers).

Radioactivity? Not unless there’s another Chernobyl. The ozone layer? The public is bored. Electric fields causing cancer? Worth a try, but the studies keep coming up blank (try cellular phones instead). What about reviving the fads of the 1970s for predicting shortages of oil, food, water and raw materials? It will not wash; the elementary lessons of supply, demand and price substitution were too well taught by the 1980s.

One human ailment that is getting steadily worse is allergy. The evidence that allergies are diseases of the modern, technological world is now impressive (farmers and Victorian heroines rarely get allergies; only modern townspeople), and the deduction that they are somehow caused by air pollution is natural. If a scientist in 1994 can prove a link between, say, air pollution and allergies, then he or she can be sure of igniting a good campaign drawing attention to the “collapse of the human immune system.”

The other threat to raise will be genetic engineering. Suppose a genetically engineered virus designed to attack rabbits or aphids were to escape from a laboratory and start killing dolphins or cats; the leaflet writes itself long before the virus actually escapes. “This laboratory is creating cancer-causing viruses that could condemn one of nature’s most intelligent creatures to a lingering extinction, upset the fragile ecological balance of the biosphere and mutate into a deadly human plague. Don’t let it happen. Xed Jabong, lead guitarist of The Radical Sheep, urges you to help us act now.” You have been warned.

Matt Ridley is former science editor and U.S. editor of The Economist, and is the author of The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature.

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mpainter
January 16, 2013 10:00 am

izen says: January 16, 2013 at 8:31 am
@- MikeP
” if you consider the climate over the last 7000 years to be stable then you must have swallowed a hockey stick… :)”
No just perused the Antartic ice cores.
have a look at the climate varience in previous interstadels.
=========================
You have swallowed more than one hockey stick. For the NH, you refer to Anarctic cores. Wrong place. The Greeland ice cores have excellent resolution for the Holocene and attests very well to Holocene climate variability. Ice core records from Anarctica of previous interstadials are doubly irrevelant and you were in error to refer to them.

Colin
January 16, 2013 10:13 am

troe – I thought I was the only clenched-teeth reader of The Economist.

Ron
January 16, 2013 10:24 am

Yes Gail, *that one* makes me smile. A wonderful link and a perfect illustration for ‘pick a point to prove a point’. There was some banter back and forth at the top of this thread discussing the trend in graphs, one starting at 1998 and the other starting in the early ’90’s. My point is simple, actually and probably too obvious to make, but it seems we get away from it anyway > Graph me all you want – up, down, flat – but what part is anthropogenic, and what part is not? That’s the pea under the shell that we have to keep an eye on through all the climate science magic and stories we are subjected to.

Gail Combs
January 16, 2013 10:31 am

izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 8:05 am
@- Gail Combs
“Water vapor (relative humidity) is declining graph”
Wrong, Humidity is rising –
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2010JD014192/abstract
Even WUWT acknowledges that truth. –
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/29/reanalyses-find-rising-humidity-in-the-arctic/
@-”Sea Level rise is leveling off and actually declining slightly”
Wrong, sea level rise may pause and accelerate along with ENSO but archeological and eclipse records confirm that sea level was stable and trendless for thousands of years until the recent warming.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nope, wrong on both counts:
NOAA shows Relative humidity is static or falling depending on height above sea level GRAPH
The sea level CAN’T rise much more because most of the ice is GONE. Two more graph 1 and graph 2. The text says: There appears to have been some ‘trigger’ event at just before 7,000 ybp, that literally stopped the rapid sea level raise. Over the next 1,000 years, sea level raise ‘flattened out to about 3′ at 6,000 ybp. From that point to 5,000 ybp, the raise was less than 2’, and in the last 5,000 years, sea level has been relatively constant.
Also the Arctic was WARMER earlier in the Holocene then now. We are at the tail end of the Holocene and in general cooling towards the next low point in the Ice Age Cycles. Not even warmists disagree with that.

Lesson from the past: present insolation minimum holds potential for glacial inception (2007)
Because the intensities of the 397 ka BP and present insolation minima are very similar, we conclude that under natural boundary conditions the present insolation minimum holds the potential to terminate the Holocene interglacial. Our findings support the Ruddiman hypothesis [Ruddiman, W., 2003. The Anthropogenic Greenhouse Era began thousands of years ago. Climate Change 61, 261–293], which proposes that early anthropogenic greenhouse gas emission prevented the inception of a glacial that would otherwise already have started….

Temperature and precipitation history of the Arctic
Solar energy reached a summer maximum (9% higher than at present) ca 11 ka ago and has been decreasing since then, primarily in response to the precession of the equinoxes. The extra energy elevated early Holocene summer temperatures throughout the Arctic 1-3° C above 20th century averages, enough to completely melt many small glaciers throughout the Arctic, although the Greenland Ice Sheet was only slightly smaller than at present… As summer solar energy decreased in the second half of the Holocene, glaciers reestablished or advanced, sea ice expanded, and the flow of warm Atlantic water into the Arctic Ocean diminished. Late Holocene cooling reached its nadir during the Little Ice Age (about 1250-1850 AD), when sun-blocking volcanic eruptions and perhaps other causes added to the orbital cooling, allowing most Arctic glaciers to reach their maximum Holocene extent…”

A 10,000-Year Record of Arctic Ocean Sea-Ice Variability—View from the Beach
Svend Funder1,*, Hugues Goosse2, Hans Jepsen1, Eigil Kaas3, Kurt H. Kjær1, Niels J. Korsgaard1, Nicolaj K. Larsen4, Hans Linderson5, Astrid Lyså6, Per Möller5, Jesper Olsen7, Eske Willerslev1
Abstract
We present a sea-ice record from northern Greenland covering the past 10,000 years. Multiyear sea ice reached a minimum between ~8500 and 6000 years ago, when the limit of year-round sea ice at the coast of Greenland was located ~1000 kilometers to the north of its present position. The subsequent increase in multiyear sea ice culminated during the past 2500 years and is linked to an increase in ice export from the western Arctic and higher variability of ice-drift routes….

Chinese Academy of Meteorological Sciences, Baishiqiaolu No. 46, 100081 Beijing, China
Abstract
The collected documentary records of the cultivation of citrus trees and Boehmeria nivea (a perennial herb) have been used to produce distribution maps of these plants for the eighth, twelfth and thirteenth centuries A.D. The northern boundary of citrus and Boehmeria nivea cultivation in the thirteenth century lay to the north of the modern distribution. During the last 1000 years, the thirteenth-century boundary was the northernmost. This indicates that this was the warmest time in that period. On the basis of knowledge of the climatic conditions required for planting these species, it can be estimated that the annual mean temperature in south Henan Province in the thirteenth century was 0.9–1.0°C higher than at present. A new set of data for the latest snowfall date in Hangzhou from A.D. 1131 to 1264 indicates that this cannot be considered a cold period, as previously believed. http://www.springerlink.com/content/gh98230822m7g01l/

And even the EPA is showing the SST have leveled and not much higher than they were in the 1930’s Graph
Plants in the USA show that the temperatures in the 1990’s were cooler that in 1900. Bottom Graph
Once you get away from the computer models and look at geology and botany you can see we are heading towards cooling.
Of special note is MIS-19 an extreme interglacial, occurring at an eccentricity minimum just like MIS-11 was and MIS-1 presently is. As that interglacial ended

… During the glacial inception from MIS-19 to MIS-18, the low resolution EPICA dome C water stable isotope record (Jouzel et al. 2007) has revealed millennial variability principally marked by the occurrence of three consecutive warm periods. linkand link 2 (graph) and link 3 (graph)

In other words don’t bet that the current warm period is unusual or due to CO2 cause it has happened in the past during a similar interglacial just before the rapid descent into full glaciation.

RockyRoad
January 16, 2013 10:34 am

izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 8:05 am


I prefer to avoid drama, Human city based civilisation emerged during the vetry stable climate of the Holocene over the last ~7000 years. Most of our agricultural systems are dependent on that climate stability, when it becomes more varied (hotter or colder) civilisations collapse.
I am unconvinced that modern technocratic civilisations are any more resilient than Roman, Mayan Aztec, Anasazi, Chan, Cambodian or any of the other major world civilisations that have failed in the past freom the stresses caused by climate variation.

As a geologist, I remain unconvinced there was “very stable climate of the Holocene over the last ~7,000 years” as you claim; indeed–your own statement that “other major world civilisations that have failed in the past from the stesses caused by climate variation” and then you list half a dozen examples proves it.
My gosh, izen, do you ever read what you write and then connect the dots? I don’t have to argue with you because you’re self-defeating. But logical thought isn’t the stong suit of those who have been brainwashed by the Warmista cult, is it?

RockyRoad
January 16, 2013 11:27 am

Oh, and izen, those civilizations that you claimed to have failed because of “climate variation” (you listed the Roman, Mayan, Aztec, Anasazi, Chan, and Cambodian)–were any of those failures caused by anthropogenic CO2?
None, you say?
None?
Think about it.
Maybe, just maybe, anthropogenic CO2 isn’t what’s driving climate variation. Just maybe. Not this time, not last time, not the times before.

smac
January 16, 2013 11:38 am

Brad Keyes says:
January 15, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Is it just me, or is climate science the only branch of science that manages to consume tens of billions of dollars without providing humankind with a single byte of actionable intelligence? Science is meant to increase human knowledge, but climate science seems to have led only to an explosion in human *belief*. Have we learned anything useful about the climate that we didn’t know ten years ago?
Meanwhile real science is uncovering new wonders at a rate the interested reader couldn’t possibly keep up with.
_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_
trafamadore,
Sorry but, I am now confused by your post and response. The above seems to be the quote, in full, to which you are referring and is certainly the quote cited in your post and it refers to general concept of spending in the climate science discipline. In fact, no where in the post does the word “research” appear. I cannot find support for your NSF number specifically and, I am sure you would agree, that the NSF funding in no way represents all monies being funneled through tax-payer funded institutions to climate science related research, let alone the broader climate science campaign, for lack of a better word.

izen
January 16, 2013 12:22 pm

@- Gail Combs
“Late Holocene cooling reached its nadir during the Little Ice Age (about 1250-1850 AD)…
On the basis of knowledge of the climatic conditions required for planting these species, it can be estimated that the annual mean temperature in south Henan Province in the thirteenth century was 0.9–1.0°C higher than at present.”
So while the LIA was wiping out the Greenland Norse the Chinese were growing delicate herbs further north than at present.
Congratulations.
You have just presented strong evidence that the LIA was NOT globally synchronous and doesn’t represent a global cooling from which we are ‘naturally warming’.

izen
January 16, 2013 12:37 pm

@- RockyRoad
“As a geologist, I remain unconvinced there was “very stable climate of the Holocene over the last ~7,000 years” as you claim; indeed–your own statement that “other major world civilisations that have failed in the past from the stesses caused by climate variation” and then you list half a dozen examples proves it.”
I would suggest it is a matter of degree…
Civilisation arose when local conditions where benign, and often seems to fail when climate change stresses the agricultural infrastructure.
However I am open to argument on the causes of the failure of civilisations, I think Taintor is probably closer to the reality than Diarmond.
As for the contrast between the Holocene and past global climates; have you ever considered why genetically modern humans remained hunter-gatherers for over fifty thousand years through several glacial cycles and have only developed agriculture and city based societies in the last few thousand…?
Even if glacial advances and sea level rise had obliterated archeological evidence for earlier civilisation the lack of it is confirmed by the absence of any pollen distribution or genetic change in domesticated crops and animals until the Holocene.

John Finn
January 16, 2013 12:43 pm

izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 8:05 am
@- Gail Combs
“Water vapor (relative humidity) is declining graph”
Wrong, Humidity is rising –
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2010JD014192/abstract
Even WUWT acknowledges that truth. –

@-John Finn
“Teasing out the CO2 contribution to warming is nigh on impossible but, after playing around with the available data (all datasets), I’m inclined to go with the Ridley estimate of around 1 deg (perhaps 1.5 deg) warming for 2xCO2.”


I am sorry but I see no reason to find the agreement between you and Matt Ridley as more compelling than the slightly higher (2.5degC) sensitivity than Baysian analysis derives from the work of thousands of scientists over the last 100 years.
Could you provide a link to the “thousands of scientists over the past 100 years” who have used Bayesian (not ‘Baysian’) analysis to derive a sensitivity greater than 2.5 deg. I know Hargreaves and Annan used a Bayesian approach but I’m not sure of Annan’s expertise in IR Spectroscopy or for that matter of the many other ‘scientists’ who have provided similar estimates. Jack Barrett, on the other hand, who has a proven record of many, many years in IR spectroscopy reckons the response to a doubling of CO2 is ~1.2 deg C. Richard Lindzen was a climate scientist a long, long time before climate science became trendy also estimates climate sensitivity at around 1 deg per 2xCO2.
Current observations support these lower estimates of sensitivity. I understand you prefer the more spectacular model results but it’s just not happening. Also this ……….
@- Gail Combs
“Water vapor (relative humidity) is declining graph”
Wrong, Humidity is rising –
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2010JD014192/abstract

You don’t appear to understand the term ‘relative humidity’. It’s perfectly possible for humidity to rise but for relative humidity to fall. The models predict constant relative humidity. Dessler (your link) might well argue that humidity has risen (slightly) but a study that he co-authored in 2004 showed that the increase in humidity was nothing like that predicted by the models.

izen
January 16, 2013 1:03 pm

@- Gail Combs
“NOAA shows Relative humidity is static or falling depending on height above sea level GRAPH”
Relative humidity as the term suggests is the water vapor content of the atmosphere RELATIVE to the temperature and pressure.
It is quite possible for the ABSOLUTE water vapor content of the atmosphere to increase by around 10% but the relative humidity to fall if the temperature has increased. For instance in the US 48 during last year the higher temperature would have resulted in a fall in relative humidity compared to 1998 even if the actual amount of water vapor in the region had increased by a few percent.
I am unsure whether to attribute your focus on the relative humidity as an accidentally misleading omission.

izen
January 16, 2013 1:33 pm

@- John Finn
“Could you provide a link to the “thousands of scientists over the past 100 years” who have used Bayesian (not ‘Baysian’) analysis to derive a sensitivity greater than 2.5 deg.”
No, it was unjustified {and misspelt!} hyperbole and I apologise and withdraw it. {grin}
Althou I would argue that the history of what the climate sensitivity might be to various forcings does have a Bayesian pattern of refining an original guess… Arrhenius perhaps was first with around five degC.
1.5degC is right at the low end of present estimates and I suspect it would pose problems for the sensitivity required to generate interglacial periods. You could get into claims that climate sensitivity is variable, higher in some climate regimes than others. But trying to refine the sensitivity is arguing about the price after you have bought the item. The energy imbalance caused by rising CO2 is real, can be calculated and confirmed by direct observation.
Speculative feedbacks that may amplify or suppress the effect of that extra energy will only be triggered by the impact of that change in energy flow. While the impact on the average global temperature may be uncertain as the recent changes in the jet stream stability with moving convergence zones indicate, not all impacts are directly temperature related.
Whether those impacts are significantly damaging to human civilisation depends far more on the resilience of our present culture than a few percent difference on climate sensitivity. I find it odd that so much effort goes into the arcane details when the major parameter, and the one society has more direct control of, is how robust civilisation is in the face of any environmental global impact from any cause.

Joe
January 16, 2013 2:35 pm

izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 1:33 pm
You could get into claims that climate sensitivity is variable, higher in some climate regimes than others.
——————————————————————————————————-
Not to mention that it MUST vary with different concentrations of C02 itself 😉

Gail Combs
January 16, 2013 2:47 pm

izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 1:03 pm
…. It is quite possible for the ABSOLUTE water vapor content of the atmosphere to increase by around 10% but the relative humidity to fall if the temperature has increased…..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
However we first have to KNOW what the temperature is and with all the mucking around with the temperatures no one can tell at least to the accuracy that Climate scientists are claiming.
Also if you there is the ‘error’

graph
….The title of this graph indicates this is the CRU computed sampling (measurement) error in C for 1969. Note how large these sampling errors are. They start at 0.5°C, which is the mark where any indication of global warming is just statistical noise and not reality. Most of the data is in the +/- 1°C range, which means any attempt to claim a global increase below this threshold is mathematically false….
source

You also have the information from Australia

Australian temperature records shoddy, inaccurate, unreliable. Surprise!
The BOM say their temperature records are high quality. An independent audit team has just produced a report showing that as many as 85 -95% of all Australian sites in the pre-Celsius era (before 1972) did not comply with the BOM’s own stipulations. The audit shows 20-30% of all the measurements back then were rounded or possibly truncated. Even modern electronic equipment was at times, so faulty and unmonitored that one station rounded all the readings for nearly 10 years! These sloppy errors may have created an artificial warming trend. The BOM are issuing pronouncements of trends to two decimal places like this one in the BOM’s Annual Climate Summary 2011 of “0.52 °C above average” yet relying on patchy data that did not meet its own compliance standards around half the time. It’s doubtful they can justify one decimal place….

Then you get the ever changing graphs
That is why I gave up and look at plants, AND INCLUDED THE GRAPH. They do not lie about their growing ranges. Aside for the decades of 1970 and 1910 the other decades were pretty darn close and overlapping in the Koppen climate boundaries as would be expected from the temperatures displayed in the 1987 graph before all the ‘adjusting’ was done to craft a graph showing a steady rise in temperature.
OH and it seems you do not know the difference between thirteenth from fourteenth

Chinese Academy of Meteorological Sciences, Baishiqiaolu No. 46, 100081 Beijing, China
Abstract
…. On the basis of knowledge of the climatic conditions required for planting these species, it can be estimated that the annual mean temperature in south Henan Province in the thirteenth century was 0.9–1.0°C higher than at present. A new set of data for the latest snowfall date in Hangzhou from A.D. 1131 to 1264 indicates that this cannot be considered a cold period, as previously believed. http://www.springerlink.com/content/gh98230822m7g01l/

The Fate of Greenland’s Vikings
the Archaeological Institute of America
…One valley farm, excavated in 1976 and 1977, revealed just how desperate some of the Greenlanders had become. During a freezing winter, the farmers killed and ate their livestock, including a newborn calf and lamb, leaving the bones and hoofs on the ground. Even the deerhound, probably the companion of many a hunt, may have been slaughtered for food; one of its leg bones bore the knicks of a knifeblade. Similar remains were found on another farm, but if, like their masters, the animals were starving, their fatless meat would have offered little nourishment.
Whoever killed the animals was used to living in squalid conditions….
Radiocarbon dating of their remains revealed that they died out suddenly when these conditions ceased to prevail around 1350, presumably when the structures were no longer inhabited. Some of the rooms had been used as latrines, possibly out of habit or because the occupants were reluctant to venture out into the searing cold. An ice core drilled from the island’s massive icecap between 1992 and 1993 shows a decided cooling off in the Western Settlement during the mid-fourteenth century.

So both pieces of evidence do show similar temperature around the same time.

Chris R.
January 16, 2013 2:59 pm

To izen:
I suggest you check your circuits, because you are getting wrong answers. You
spoke about temperature increase “since 1850”, and then stated:
“we have already had around 11 inches of sea level rise and the rate is increasing,”
Others have already pointed out that sea level rise has not been accelerating,
if anything, it has been decelerating. Even more to the point, take a look at the
NOAA graph which Billy Liar linked. That shows, even with a
charitable reading, a rise of 190 millimeters. Just so you don’t miss the point,
that’s 7.5 inches. NOT 11 inches. In fact, more than 30% less than your figure.
So, again, please check your circuits. Or simply repeat to yourself, “25.4 millimeters
equals one inch…25.4 millimeters equals once inch…”

trafamadore
January 16, 2013 3:10 pm

smac says: ” In fact, no where in the post does the word “research” appear.”
I went back and read it too, you are correct. I was going off of Keyes’ statement, “Science is meant to increase human knowledge”; I took that to be research.
The exact numbers for climate science are only estimates because so many different funding agencies fund climate science, but the 1 billion/year number seems about right. For a back of a napkin calculation, I was thinking that there are maybe 5000-7000 scientists/students funded, so that would be about 150-200K per person, which still seems high, but some of their machines are a little spendy, and the uni’s extract overhead out of that, so seems about right (+/- 20%.)
(The students certainly dont get that!!)
So it would be 10s of billions per decade I guess.
For perspective, what did the Iraq war cost, 800 billion? What a deal…

Dr Watson
January 16, 2013 3:41 pm

Give up guys. You know the evidence is pouring in. 2013 may well be the hottest year on record.
How are you going to clean up all that egg on your faces?

January 16, 2013 4:29 pm

Matt Ridley,
Thank you for your post
I think you realize that the scientific community has an embarrassing internal problem in the climate area.
The scientific community has not been able to balance out a biased CAGW infestation of scientific mimics (aka psuedo-scientists) in the climate science area. So the interested citizens have gallantly stepped in to help maintain focus in on balancing out the bias of the CAGW scientific mimics. The interested citizens are doing a good job. Carry on.
The infestation includes scientific mimics like: Hansen, Gleick, Mann, Lewandowsky, Overpeck (AR5) and Steig . . . just to name a few.
John

Ian L. McQueen
January 16, 2013 6:10 pm

William McClenney
I googled “susceptible to rumor than it is to fact” and “susceptibility to rumor and fact” and got several hits, many different. Was your prof’s name Dubois?
IanM.

January 16, 2013 6:25 pm

Ian L. McQueen says:
January 16, 2013 at 6:10 pm
William McClenney
I googled “susceptible to rumor than it is to fact” and “susceptibility to rumor and fact” and got several hits, many different. Was your prof’s name Dubois?
IanM.
Ian, I just do not remember it was so long ago. But the professor was not one of the authors, the paper was the only subject of an entire lecture because it was just such a fundamental human trait. It seems to me that the study was done primarily by the psychology school of some university in Illinois. Maybe, possibly, the University of Chicago……

janama
January 16, 2013 6:54 pm
January 16, 2013 9:31 pm

Gail Combs says January 16, 2013 at 1:18 am

Given your track record on things we can verify, how are we to trust your record/ predictions/ prognostications on things we can’t verify?
Just penning what common sense and Occam’s Razor would suggest, unreadable posts (usually including everything but the kitchen sink) notwithstanding …
.

January 17, 2013 1:35 am

Dr Watson:
At January 16, 2013 at 3:41 pm you write in full

Give up guys. You know the evidence is pouring in. 2013 may well be the hottest year on record.
How are you going to clean up all that egg on your faces?

You know the evidence is pouring in. 2013 may see pigs fly.
How are you going to cope with all that falling brown stuff without a reinforced umbrella?
Richard

Latimer Alder
January 17, 2013 2:06 am

Watson
You say
You know the evidence is pouring in. 2013 may well be the hottest year on record.
Since we are only in the third week of January with 49 weeks to go I have to admire your prognostical abilities. But then I saw the weasel word ‘may’..
Shame.
Because otherwise I was going to inquire whether you took private contracts as a racing tipster. Could do with a bit of spare cash to pay my hugely inflated heating bills because of all the global warming induced cold weather we are forecast in UK over the next week or so.

smac
January 17, 2013 3:45 am

trafamadore says:
January 16, 2013 at 3:10 pm
smac says: ” In fact, no where in the post does the word “research” appear.”
I went back and read it too, you are correct. I was going off of Keyes’ statement, “Science is meant to increase human knowledge”; I took that to be research.
(The students certainly dont get that!!)
So it would be 10s of billions per decade I guess.
For perspective, what did the Iraq war cost, 800 billion? What a deal…
_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_
Funding for technology research alone in 2010 was $5.5 B and that reflects only one revenue stream in one branch of the discipline. Of course, some amount gets pissed away en route to the actual project. Your calculation is analogous to saying that the salaries of CEOs and SVPs is reflective of the total cost of running said corporation. It isn’t even close. $10 B per year is reasonable based on your methodology and likely to be low. (When was the last time you saw a “back of the napkin” calculation underestimate the cost of something.) The Federal government reports alone put $10 B a year in play easily … and that is one level of multiple stream funding. Your numbers just are not close.
Not sure what the Iraq war reference adds but, makes me worry you are a moment away from invoking Godwin’s Law. A better point of discussion, for perspective, might be how much funding goes to research in how to curtail population growth through education. The “might” part is big though because any such discussion will degrade to religious stance much the same way climate debate does. Too bad there is so much circling of the wagons … leaves no room for rationale skepticism and the subsequent debate.
I must say, being new (more like re-newed) to this blog debate and having surveyed many, many sites, only the skeptic sites allow the opposite side a voice. I tried to engage conversation at many of the believer sites on this topic, posting links to government reports, etc (much more diligently than I have here) and none of my posts were ever left intact. Made for some comedy when a later reader would see a partial post and demand I produce a link to a government report or such which had, ironically, been parsed from my original post.