Since it has been mostly silent in the last few months, I didn’t even know Deltoid blog was still up and running, but I’m happy to publish this rebuttal for Matt Ridley against Tim Lambert’s claim that Ridley was wrong 20 years ago in a piece Mr. Lambert has focused on. Mr. Lambert can hopefully learn a few things by reading this, mostly, that he’s out of his league when arguing with Matt Ridley, who’s far more versed in the subject than Lambert. I suppose the word “pwned” might apply here. – Anthony
Nostradamus has nothing on me…
Guest post by Matt Ridley
I first wrote about man-made climate change more than quarter of a century ago in 1986, when I was science editor of The Economist. Here’s what I wrote then:
“If man were not around, the planet would, over several centuries, cool down enough for snow to last through the summer in Europe and much of North America. That snow would accumulate until ice sheets covered the land. The next ice age would have begun.
But man is around, and he has fiddled with the thermostat. In particular, he has burned wood, coal, gas and oil in increasing amounts, turning it into carbon dioxide and steam in the process. At the same time he has cut down forests to make way for agriculture. More carbon dioxide, fewer plants to turn it back into oxygen: as a result carbon-dioxide levels are rising steadily. They have now reached 150% of their pre-industrial levels: about 280 billion tonnes of carbon have been added to the atmosphere.
All this extra carbon dioxide makes the atmosphere slightly less transparent to infra-red rays. More of the earth’s reflected heat stays here rather than escaping to space.so, the planet is getting warmer. Slowly, and erratically (for about 30 years after the second world war the climate cooled slightly), the average temperature of the whole globe is going up. It has risen about ½ degC since 1850. Carbon dioxide takes time to show its effects, though, so even if levels stay the same as they are now, the temperature will continue to climb. If they go on rising, in the next century the temperature will rise by several degrees.
That may not sound much. To the inhabitants of cold countries, it might sound attractive. But it is worrying mainly because of its effect on the oceans and the pattern of climate. If the temperature of the oceans rises, the water expands slightly and the ice caps melt slightly: on present trends, the sea level will rise by between two and ten feet by 2100. That will inundate low-lying parts of the world, including such populous places as Bangladesh and Holland.”
I think you will agree that this is a fairly standard account of the greenhouse effect and – apart from the male pronoun for the species – could have been written today. Very little has changed in the conventional account of global warming. Indeed, today I would change almost none of it. (Almost! Read on.) I am moderately relieved to find that with just a few weeks exposure to the science of global warming I got most of it roughly right. In those days, remember, there was no internet and journalists had to find things out the hard way.
But as the years passed I came to understand more, and soon I no longer accepted every word of the above account. In particular, I discovered something my informants had failed to disclose – that even fast rising levels of carbon dioxide could not on their own generate “several degrees” of warming in a century: for that to happen requires amplification by water vapour. All the models assumed this amplification, but the evidence for it began to look more and more threadbare. So by 1993, six years after the piece just quoted, I no longer thought that 2-10 feet of sea level rise was likely and I no longer thought that several degrees of warming were likely. Instead, I wrote – in a single throwaway sentence in a long piece about eco-scares generally – that
“Global warming, too, has shot its bolt, now that the scientific consensus has settled down on about a degree of temperature increase over a century-that is, little more than has taken place in the past century.”
This was published in a book the Economist put out each year called (in this case) “The world in 1994”. The main prediction of the essay, by the way, was that genetic engineering was the next big eco-scare. I was right, if a few years early, and I did not spot that tomatoes, rather than dolphins, would be the species that touched the heart strings and purse strings of the green movement. I’ll append the essay at the end of this blog post for those that are interested.
I am even prouder of that sentence. At the time such a “lukewarm” view was unfashionable among activists, though not yet among scientists – and you were allowed to say things like that without being treated like a holocaust denier. But it’s not far from what I think now. Since the modal climate sensitivity in all the best studies is now settling down at a bit over 1.5 degC, and since the effect of aerosols, black carbon, ocean heat uptake etc are now all better understood and provide fewer and fewer excuses for high sensitivity models to disagree with data, for me to have come up with “about a degree” two whole decades ago, in a single sentence in an essay on other topics, seems quite surprising. Climate change was not my main interest then: I was writing a book about the evolution of sex having left the Economist to be my own boss.
Indeed, if you take a look at the graph below, you will see that over 34 years, there has been about 0.36 degrees of warming on a rolling average using data from five different sources: or on track for 1.08degC in a century, give or take. About a degree?
Graph from climate4you.com
I am not claiming prescience, more like surprise. As a journalist you get used to cringing at the things you once wrote, usually when you were too much of a slave to the conventional wisdom of the day. In this case, I feel no need to cringe.
Anyway, what’s the point of all this? Well, this sentence, taken out of context, was reprinted last week by a website called Deltoid in a blog post entitled rather strangely “The Australian’s War on Science 81: Matt Ridley’s 20 year old wrong prediction” (I am not an Australian, and I have as far as I recall only once written an article for the newspaper called the Australian; I have enlisted in no war on science – indeed if there is such a war, I’ll join the infantry on science’s side). The sentence was said to have come from the Globe and Mail, a Toronto newspaper that again I have hardly ever written for, in 1993.
Alerted by a tweet from Andrew Revkin, I replied in three tweets a few seconds apart: “I did not write for the Globe and Mail in 1993, let alone about climate…maybe the GandM quoted something else I wrote and anyway…not yet wrong”. This led to a torrent of tweets from some activist claiming I had denied the article, I was an idiot, etc. Good luck to him. Anyway somebody –- actually Gavin Schmidt – then kindly posted the article on the Deltoid website (the “owner” of which, Tim Lambert, had failed to do me the courtesy of letting me know he was posting this strange attack) so I could check that yes, I did write it and that yes unbeknownst to me the Globe and Mail did reprint it, presumably with the permission of the Economist, on the last day of 1993.
Now for all I know Tim Lambert may be very good at his day job, which is lecturing in computer graphics at the University of New South Wales. He may also be charming company. But let’s just parse his headline. “Matt Ridley’s 20-year-old wrong prediction”. In what way was it wrong? One fifth of a century has passed since I wrote that sentence – I’d hardly call it a prediction, more an assessment – so how can it be wrong yet to say that there will be a degree of warming in a century? And since the fullest data set over the longest period shows that we are on track for 1.08 degrees of warming in a century, “about a degree” is looking pretty good so far, though of course it is far too early to tell. I’m not claiming it was right, just that it’s 80 years premature to call it wrong.
But Lambert seemed to be under the impression that it was obvious that I was already wrong. In a series of tweets and in a very odd, cherry-picked graph with no data source cited, he kept insisting that there’s been 0.4 degrees of warming between 1993 and 2013. I showed him the above graph. Since 1993 was the low point of the post-Pinatubo cooling (conveniently) and by ignoring the black average line in the above graph but taking the one data point that is November 2012, he claimed justification. “UAH 0.42 warming over baseline. 1993 temp on baseline,” he tweeted. At this I have to admit, I burst out laughing so loudly my dog woke up. Truly the mind boggleth.
There ensued a silly little twitter war of words in which Lambert refused me room to reply in a blog post with diagrams – the comments space of his website does not fit diagrams — while a chorus of tweeters heaped abuse on my head. This is what passes for debate in climate science, or computer graphics departments, these days.
Now, let’s look at some predictions that HAVE failed.
First, the IPCC’s many models, only two of which looks any good at this stage. The rest have all overshot the real world by some margin. Woops.
Chart by John Christy.
Then James Hansen:
Chart from kaltesonne.de
All three of his scenarios were wildly higher than what actually happened, even though carbon dioxide emissions were HIGHER than in all three of his models.
Then IPCC again, this time for methane:
Chart from the leaked IPCC report.
Er, back to the drawing board, lads.
Now look, fellers, you do this kind of thing for a living. I’m just a self-employed writer with no back-up team, no government grants, no taxpayer salary, no computer simulations, and absolutely no pretensions to being Nostradamus about anything. But it strikes me I did a far better job of predicting the climate back in 1993 than any of you! How could that be?
Anyway, the whole episode was depressing in two ways.
First, it’s a little sad that a lecturer in computer graphics took the trouble to look up a sentence a freelance journalist wrote 20 years ago in a piece about something else and falsely claimed it was already “wrong” when it isn’t, and would hardly matter if it was. Does he not have anything better to do?
Second, it’s also a little sad to read just how little has changed in the climate debate since then. If I could travel back in time and tell my 34-year-old self in 1993 that I would be roughly right to take a “lukewarm” view about global warming, but that in the meantime the world would ignore me and would instead spend hundreds of billions of dollars on ways to prevent the poor getting rich with cheap electricity, on destroying rain forests to grow biofuels, on spoiling landscapes with windmills to provide less than half a percent of the world’s energy, and on annual conferences for tens of thousands of pampered activists, then surely my younger self would gape in disbelief.
Anyway, here’s the 1993 essay in case you’re interested.
=======================================================
The Globe and Mail (Canada), December 31, 1993 Friday
THE WORLD IN 1994 IDEAS ENVIRONMENT The Next Eco-Scare: Some environmental crises are genuine; others are carefully exploited fundraising bonanzas
By MATT RIDLEY The Economist
Like sharks, environmentalists must move forward or die. Without a constant supply of new incidents, new buzzwords and, above all, new threats, they cannot keep scaring people into sending the money that pays their salaries. For this reason alone, 1994 will produce a fresh crop of environmental scares. Not all will be bogus, but judging by the recent track record of the greens, many will.
The environmental movement has become increasingly driven by the push of marketing, rather than the pull of public outrage. When that happens to organizations, priorities change. For example, scientists at one of the biggest wildlife charities were firmly against arguing for an ivory-trade ban in 1989; they thought it would be bad for elephants. But their marketing people saw rival organizations, which had endorsed a ban, reaping large rewards from direct-mail campaigns. It was not long before the charity was urging an end to the ivory trade.
This takeover by marketing types is having an insidious effect. In the past, environmentalists were essentially reactive. It took an external event to trigger their campaigns: the Yom Kippur War led to the oil crisis, the hot American summer of 1988 made the greenhouse effect newsworthy. But that is not the way things work in the public relations world. Does Madonna just record a song and wait to see how popular it gets? Does Steven Spielberg make a film about dinosaurs and hope it sells? No, they hype their products, whether they are good or bad. And so, soon, will environmentalists.
If you were to design the next environmental threat, what you would come up with would be a scare that is invisible (like radiation), global (like the greenhouse effect), irreversible (like rain forest destruction), cancer-causing (like dioxin) and singles out furry animals (like a Canadian seal-clubber). To sharpen your marketing skills, invent the next threat out of these building blocks.
All over the world, as you read this, groups of environmental fundraisers are trying to think up next year’s top-selling Cassandra album. They remember the great hits of the 1980s: acid rain, Chernobyl, global warming, the ozone layer, Exxon Valdez, the ivory ban. Each was a fundraising bonanza. The 1990s have been less kind to them. When the Braer oil tanker went aground on Shetland in January, 1993, it was a bonanza for the newspapers: Environmental groups rushed to place advertisements featuring photographs of oil-soaked birds-photographs that had been kept on file for exactly this eventuality ever since the Persian Gulf War.
The Braer was, however, more of a disaster for the environmental movement than for the shags of Shetland (let alone the Socotra cormorants of the Arabian Gulf whose pictures adorned the advertisements). The oil quickly dispersed in heavy gales and did minimal damage.
As a consequence, oil spills have lost some of their power to extract funds from people’s pockets. Global warming, too, has shot its bolt, now that the scientific consensus has settled down on about a degree of temperature increase over a century-that is, little more than has taken place in the past century.
Biodiversity has some mileage left in it, because the rain forests are shrinking as fast as ever and nobody has come up with any good ideas of what to do about it, except form committees at the United Nations. Various follow-ups to the Rio convention of 1992 will take place in 1994, providing some opportunities for tugging heartstrings about the plight of Indians, three-toed sloths and esoteric fungi. But even Sting, a pop star, has wearied a little of the cynicism of the Indians he bought land for (they sold it to loggers).
Radioactivity? Not unless there’s another Chernobyl. The ozone layer? The public is bored. Electric fields causing cancer? Worth a try, but the studies keep coming up blank (try cellular phones instead). What about reviving the fads of the 1970s for predicting shortages of oil, food, water and raw materials? It will not wash; the elementary lessons of supply, demand and price substitution were too well taught by the 1980s.
One human ailment that is getting steadily worse is allergy. The evidence that allergies are diseases of the modern, technological world is now impressive (farmers and Victorian heroines rarely get allergies; only modern townspeople), and the deduction that they are somehow caused by air pollution is natural. If a scientist in 1994 can prove a link between, say, air pollution and allergies, then he or she can be sure of igniting a good campaign drawing attention to the “collapse of the human immune system.”
The other threat to raise will be genetic engineering. Suppose a genetically engineered virus designed to attack rabbits or aphids were to escape from a laboratory and start killing dolphins or cats; the leaflet writes itself long before the virus actually escapes. “This laboratory is creating cancer-causing viruses that could condemn one of nature’s most intelligent creatures to a lingering extinction, upset the fragile ecological balance of the biosphere and mutate into a deadly human plague. Don’t let it happen. Xed Jabong, lead guitarist of The Radical Sheep, urges you to help us act now.” You have been warned.
Matt Ridley is former science editor and U.S. editor of The Economist, and is the author of The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature.
Related articles
- Matt Ridley responds with a “sleight of hand” (scienceblogs.com)
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According to the IPCC (AR4) “… Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations …”.
Since c.1950 the HadCRUT 3 series shows a linear trend of + 0.6 C since 1950 (60 years) so according to the doctrine, at most, human CO2 emissions may be responsible for about 1 C per century.
Of course empirical evidence is the old paradigm, it’s so last century.
trafamadore says:
January 15, 2013 at 6:35 pm
Keyes says: “is climate science the only branch of science that manages to consume tens of billions of dollars”
At least in the US, 1.4 billion in 2011. Not tens of billiions. What uses tens of billions? cancer research, diabetes, those sorts of things.
In the US alone there are about 60 million households. If every household’s annual electricity bill goes up by $500 to pay for green energy, the bill comes to, um, could it be, $30 billion a year? Add roughly the same for the eurozone and the UK and we’re talking serious bucks.
Brad Keyes says:
January 15, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Is it just me, or is climate science the only branch of science that manages to consume tens of billions of dollars without providing humankind with a single byte of actionable intelligence? Science is meant to increase human knowledge, but climate science seems to have led only to an explosion in human *belief*….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
‘Climate science’ was never a real science. It was specifically manufactured to produce the ‘crisis’ in a “Crisis-Reaction-Solution” set-up to drive humans into accepting government mandates that people would never otherwise have accepted.
WTO director, Pascal Lamy is pretty blunt about it. He wants ‘Global Governance’ where nations give up their national sovereignty. He identifies what it will take
Lamy lists the reasons (ALL callously manufactured) for moving towards Global governance.
climate crisis,
The IPCC mandate states:
Humans were tried and found guilty BEFORE the IPCC ever looked at a scientific fact. The IPCC mandate is not to figure out what factors effect the climate but to dig up the facts needed to hang the human race. The IPCC assumes the role of prosecution and and the skeptics that of the defense but the judge (aka the media) refuses to allow the defense council into the court room.
Academia is providing the manufactured evidence to ‘frame’ the human race and they are KNOWINGLY doing so. In other words Academics who prides themselves as being ‘lofty socialists’ untainted by plebeian capitalism are KNOWINGLY selling the rest of the human race into the slavery designed by the bankers and corporate elite. (Agenda 21 & Global Governance)
Food Crisis
How Goldman Sachs Created the Food Crisis
Bill Clinton admits WTO Agreement on Ag intentionally caused famine link
indepth comment on Food Crisis
Flu Epidemic
virulent H5N1 bird flu was sent out by accident from an Austrian lab last year… might have spawned a hybrid that could unleash a pandemic.
The swine flu outbreak was a ‘false pandemic’ driven by drug companies that stood to make billions of pounds from a worldwide scare, a leading health expert has claimed.
Questions from the public lead to this statement from NIH Financial Conflict of Interest
Economic Crisis
Bill Clinton wrecked the economy beyond repair on November 2 ,1999 with the repeal of Glass-Stegall which tore down the wall between investment banks and S&Ls. Barney Frank (D-Mass) also has his fingerprints all over this mess with the passage of the Community Reinvestment Act which required lenders to make risky loans to low-income minorities to purchase housing. Clinton’s signing of the laws that repealed the McFadden Act of 1927, the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 and the Bank Holding Company Act of 1956 lead to the Formation of Mega Banks. He is also responsible for the Housing and Community Development Act of 1992 and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 that was responsible for marginal mortgage loans doomed to fail and the unregulated CDSs used to insure the banks against foreclosure.
Clinton was President from 1993 to 2001. Statistics showed in 1990, before WTO was ratified by Clinton, foreign ownership of U.S. assets amounted to 33% of U.S. GDP. By 2002, just after he left office this had increased to over 70% of U.S. ~ link
http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/important/index.html, the US government link to a listing of US banking laws has been taken down – interesting… You think the US government doesn’t want us to know how they screwed us? Top Senate Democrat: bankers “own” the U.S. Congress
How the AIG Bailout Could be Driving More Foreclosures
The Big Takeover: How Wall Street Insiders are Using the Bailout to Stage a Revolution
The Great American Bubble Machine
420 Banks Demand 1-world Currency
OH< and just for kicks here is another "Crisis-Reaction-Solution" set-up the government controlled <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_case.htm#us"Daycare con job.
“Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man”. ~ Jesuit motto
Update: Lambert did eventually say on twitter that I could post a reply on his blog. Not sure if that was before or after he saw that I had already posted it here. I’m happy to do both. Waiting for the details of how to send it to him.
There was a time when the Economist was not a run of the mill propaganda rag? Well, I’d be interested to see whether the switch paid off for them, and whether the money came from more sales or from American progressive foundations.
Lambert’s blog is the Mary Celeste of the online world.
A ghostly ship drifting from nowhere to nowhere and uninhabited except for a few manic cackles from the departed.
An extraordinarily insightful article for 1993. Sadly, the Economist has moved on and is now in the thrall of the CAGW cult.
Matt Ridley comments how environmental activism is the product of its own marketing. Scary is good, as this produces the bucks. The marketing guys obviously looked around and modeled their organisations on some of the loony, pseudo-religious, cults infesting America’s Bible Belt. Some of these cults have had extraordinary long term success in separating the faithful from their bucks, just so their leaders can live outrageously opulent lifestyles.
it’s a system that obviously works, as the IPCC’s Pachauri designed his TERI organisation in exactly the same way.
The ironic thing about Matt Ridley reprinting his articles from the past is the obvious fact that the 1986 article is more accurate than his 1994 comments.
Perhaps it was unclear in 94 that water vapor was increasing in the atmosphere and is an unavoidable feedback amplifying the effects of CO2. Now the direct observations confirm that. By comparison his 1994 prediction that AGW was a past issue with little more than a degC rise by 2100 and as an environmental concern would be supercided by GM looks ridiculous in the light of the statements of every major scientific organisation issuing increasingly strong warnings about AGW since 1994 and the ongoing warming, ice melt and sea level rise.
As there has already been most of a 1 degree rise since 1850,(more in the US 48) and with 87 years still to go the 1986 article looks much more accurate than the 1994 suggestion that warming would never exceed a single degree. we have already had around 11 inches of sea level rise and the rate is increasing, a minimum of 2 feet by 2100 is now looking conservative, although 10 feet still seems unlikely even if the Greenland ice-cap is melting ~3x as fast as it was in the 1990s
I would commend Matt Ridley for getting it right in the 1986 article, but suggest that his partial renunciation of that position since is obviously mistaken in the light of subsequrent climate change.
“trafamadore says:
January 15, 2013 at 6:35 pm
Keyes says: “is climate science the only branch of science that manages to consume tens of billions of dollars”
At least in the US, 1.4 billion in 2011. Not tens of billiions. What uses tens of billions? cancer research, diabetes, those sorts of things.”
You have been asked on many occasions to support your remarks with facts. So I take no small pleasure in providing REAL facts to my comments!
In the UK the estimated Tax revenue from ‘green taxes’ (filched from the population, including those officially deemed to be in “fuel poverty”) to waste on ‘Green Energy’ is:
for the years 2012/13 – £2.5 Billion which at todays exchange rate is $4.0 Billion
for the years 2015/16 – £6.6 Billion which at todays exchange rate is $10.6 Billion
see http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/press_60_12.htm
No small beer!
As an aside; I have watched your puerile discourse on these blogs with some amusement. Your diatribe has added nothing constructive to any of the discussions. All you seem capable of is enhancing your credentials as a ‘troll’, so keep up the good work 🙂
Well I don’t understand what Lambert is on about. If you take UAH from 1993 to 2013 you get 0.3C of warming – not 0.5. For the RSS it’s even less. And that works out to be 0.15C per decade, does it not?
Since that is only 20 years that seems a bit disingenuous to say he is wrong over the course of a century. It’s only 2 decades of data. Go back 3 decades and the rate is just about 0.11C per decade – so that is in line with what he suggested.
Hi Matt, just wanted to say I have your book “The Red Queen” (which I assume is the one you allude to) amongst your others and must have read it about six times. Excellent and thought provoking. Good luck with the climate crowd – but then you know what the game’s like anyway.
Lambert’s blog is a dog.
Just a warning…. His little group of green alarmist, privileged prats think they are God’s gift to science. Good luck if you go there. They are a pack of conceited know-alls who think that anyone who disagrees with them, or Little Timmy, must be attacked.
Lambert is a good example of the problems with academic institutions in Australia.
This computer programmer thinks that because he is a ‘university teacher’ that he knows more than anyone else about everything.
Why doesn’t he stick to computing and leave science to scientists? Oops… sorry, climate models need computing. Maybe they need some better science input too! How come little timmy didn’t ‘model’ a zero temperature change trend over the last 16 years?
How does Tim Lambert explain his contempt for anyone who disagrees with his alarmist views now that the British Met office has determined that there has been no significant global warming for 16 years?
Of course he either ignores this or he calls it a lie!
As it becomes clearer that his alarmist climate predictions are grossly exaggerated It will be very interesting to watch as bullies like Lambert backtrack on the rabid attacks on anyone who disagreed.
As time progresses and temperatures continue to trend flat and do not rise as predicted by the ‘climate models’ used by computer programmers like Lambert how will they explain? They have used teaching positions, public funding and government grants to ‘bully’ students and public to believe that small increases in a trace gas will be the ‘end of our world’.
will they continue pushing their lies or apologise for the errors they have made with the poor science they teach.
This guy is about to blow a gasket.
I think he should have a guest spot on wuwt. 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWJq-GWRmiI
@- Planck
“…. now that the British Met office has determined that there has been no significant global warming for 16 years?”
The trouble with this claim is that there IS significant warming if you measure it over 18 years, or 14 years. The lack of frequentist statistical significance is restricted to a very small window of highly selected dates.
The main sink, source and transport of energy in the climate system is water in its various forms. Sea level, sea surface temperatures, ocean heat content, atmospheric water vapor and ice melt have all shown significant changes over the last 16 years, focusing on land temperatures is picking on a rather minor proxy indicator of climate change. Although I do agree it is where we all live, so the air temperature a metere or so abover the surface is of greatest interest to us even if it is a rather noisy and uncertain indicator of what the climate is doing.
Additionally I know of no credible predictions that the main indicators of warming in the SSTs, sea level, ice melt and humidity rise are going to reverse any time soon. In fact the vast, overwhelming majority of scientific understanding of this issue is that warming will continue for another century at least even if the rise in atmospheric CO2 was stopped tommorrow.
izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 2:28 am
“… the ongoing warming, ice melt and sea level rise.”
This is surely knee-jerk commentary. Do you parse what you commit to posterity?
The ongoing warming… Has plateaued over the last 16 years plus.
Sea level rise … Both first and second order have not accelerated over the last 200 years.
Ice melt … Not globally. Why is this bad anyway?
Please stop insulting readers’ intelligence.
I’m sorry you have been treated so badly Matt. You are entitled to your opinion. Sometimes I despair that free speech is becoming a thing of the past especially in Australia.
I have to say I don’t agree with your ‘theory’ about CO2. If you read about solar cycles you will soon see that we are about to enter a period of global cooling, maybe even a mini ice age. There have been some good articles here on WUWT about that.
trafamadore says:
January 15, 2013 at 8:36 pm
Your arguments are generally laughable, “traf”, but on this issue you are so obviously wrong that I simply need to mention two examples that are the darlings of you Warmistas: wind and solar.
Solar costs roughly 40 cents per KWh and wind costs 20 cents per KWh when all of the subsidies are included. There isn’t a state in the union where the average cost of electricity is anywhere near this high:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/14/moronomics/
Nor will wind and solar ever be considered “base load”.
So your argument that it is simply my “opinion” is your EPIC FAIL, “traf”. And I want everybody* to observe that, as a troll, you are a very dishonest one.
Or pile nuclear energy on top of my rebuttal to your lame statement as another indicator–if the Warmistas were really interested in the environment, they’d focus on thorium reactors like the Chinese are doing, or fund a more promising technology like LENR (go through the YouTube series by Frank Znidarsic for a complete explanation of the theory and irrefutable math that supports it).
But NO, “traf”, they aren’t! And anything that proves your nefarious ploy is suddenly just “opinion” but only a facinorous** troll like you would be so blatantly dishonest. You either refuse to see reality, or have a vested interest in making life more difficult for your fellow man.
(I could have said that “climate science” has the unintended consequence of drastically increasing the cost of fuel but there are sufficient statements from officials and supporters of the Warmista cult that that isn’t likely–they clearly understand what this whole charade will do to energy costs and its impact on the poor worldwide. They simply don’t care or they’re comfortable with the dire consequences.)
* On average, ~100,000 visitors a day come to WUWT–that’s a huge audience.
** Facinorous: One of my favorite words, “traf”–look up the definition and look in the mirror.
Thanks Matt,
“Rob Potter
Yes, I think this is the piece you talk of, but it was in 1997:
http://www.economist.com/node/455855
Matt”
I think the only thing you got wrong in the 1997 article was how long it has taken for people to realise CAGW is a crock and to begin the embarrassing climb-down. I think you said 7 years, but everything takes longer once the UN gets in on the act so I am not going to criticize you for that!
Thanks again – I have been looking for this for a while.
izen says: @ur momisugly January 16, 2013 at 2:28 am
BZZZT – Wrong!
Water vapor (relative humidity) is declining graph
BZZZT – Wrong!
Sea Level rise is leveling off and actually declining slightly graph 1 and graph 2
Here is the reason: graph 1 and background: graph 2
And recent real life data backing that up:
The length of the Arctic melt season is getting shorter graph
Hudson Bay is freezing up faster graph
And the fall snow season is starting sooner in the Northern Hemisphere graph
David, UK says:
January 16, 2013 at 12:22 am
Can we even say that 1 degree warming is down to anthropogenic CO2? Once you deduct the on-going natural warming since the end of the LIA, what are you left with?
Only of you don’t consider negative feedbacks. The inconvenient truth for the Alarmists is that whatever warming effect man’s C02 has is too small to distinguish from natural warming. In terms of climate, it is of little consequence, and most certainly nothing to get all hot and bothered about.
Dear Mr Ridley,
We’re disappointed to see that, despite our best efforts to re-educate you, you are still insiting on making the standard denialist mistake of basing your position on verifiable fact and objective evidence.
Because of your continued refusal to adopt standard Climate Science procedures we must now ask you to refrain from further comment on the subject, either privately or in public. If you refuse this reasonable request then we shall have no option but to villify you at every opportunity.
Yours, as always,
Les Warmistas.
izen says:
January 16, 2013 at 2:28 am
As there has already been most of a 1 degree rise since 1850,(more in the US 48) and with 87 years still to go the 1986 article looks much more accurate than the 1994 suggestion that warming would never exceed a single degree.
Between 1910 and 1945 there was a rise in global temperature of more than 0.42 deg C (according to GISS). Are you suggesting this was due to the increase in atmospheric CO2. I can assure you that the IPCC certainly don’t think it was since they’ve gone to a lot of trouble publishing reports of “detection and attribution” studies which attempt to explain the 1910-45 warming (and later cooling). Many of these cite a strong solar influence in the early 20th century as a major cause. This hypothesis, though, has been thoroughly trashed by Leif Svalgaard (among others) who has found that there was no appreciable trend in solar activity over the past 300 years.
I’m not particularly having a pop at you (the ‘sceptics’ are just as much at fault in interpreting data to suit ther own needs) but it’s clear that there is a lot going on that is not properly understood or can’t be explained. Note, also, that if you check out the GISS zonal data for the 1910-45 period you’ll find that the arctic (64N-90N) warmed by ~1.5 deg – and cooled by more than 1 deg between 1945 and 1975. This, for so many reasons, puts any speculation about ‘aerosol cooling’ in to considerable doubt.
Teasing out the CO2 contribution to warming is nigh on impossible but, after playing around with the available data (all datasets), I’m inclined to go with the Ridley estimate of around 1 deg (perhaps 1.5 deg) warming for 2xCO2.