
Image Credit: National Snow and Ice Data Center IUP Bremen
From Live Science:
Months before Hurricane Sandy hurled the Atlantic Ocean into houses and cities along the East Coast, another record-breaking cyclone battered North America, helping push this year’s Arctic sea ice to a record low, a new study finds.
Arctic sea ice has been declining for decades, reaching a record low in September 2007 and hitting that record again in 2012.
“The Great Arctic Cyclone of August 2012” arose in Siberia on Aug. 2 and crossed the Arctic Ocean to Canada, lasting an unusually long 13 days. The cyclone hit a pressure minimum of 966 millibars on Aug. 6, the lowest ever recorded for an Arctic storm, professors Ian Simmonds and Irina Rudeva of the University of Melbourne in Australia report in the Dec. 15 issue of the journal Geophysical Research Letters. The pressure reading is only 26 mb higher than Hurricane Sandy’s record low of 940 mb. (A typical low-pressure system usually hits around 1,000 mb.)
“This pressure minimum and cyclone longevity are very atypical of Arctic storms, particularly in August,” the authors write in the study. “We conclude that [the storm] was the most extreme August Arctic cyclone.”
In terms of key properties, including pressure and radius, the Arctic cyclone ranks 13 out of all 19,625 Arctic storms on record since 1979, Simmonds and Rudeva report. “This storm truly deserves the title of ‘The Great Arctic Cyclone of August 2012’,” they said.
Impact on sea ice
Simmonds and Rudeva report that the storm greatly affected the record low sea ice in the Arctic this September.
“[A]nalyses we have conducted indicate [the storm] caused the dispersion and separation of a significant amount of ice, while its removal left the main pack more exposed to wind and waves associated with [the storm], facilitating the further decay of the main pack,” they write in their report. Read More
Here’s the paper, the abstract follows:
Key Points
– Analysis and diagnosis is performed on the dramatic Arctic storm of August 2012
– Storm’s evolution and longevity tied to baroclinicity and a tropopause vortex
– Storm is the most intense Arctic August system in the record (since 1979)
On 2 August 2012 a dramatic storm formed over Siberia, moved into the Arctic, and died in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago on 14 August. During its lifetime its central pressure dropped to 966 hPa, leading it to be dubbed ‘The Great Arctic Cyclone of August 2012’. This cyclone occurred during a period when the sea ice extent was on the way to reaching a new satellite-era low, and its intense behavior was related to baroclinicity and a tropopause polar vortex. The pressure of the storm was the lowest of all Arctic August storms over our record starting in 1979, and the system was also the most extreme when a combination of key cyclone properties was considered. Even though, climatologically, summer is a ‘quiet’ time in the Arctic, when compared with all Arctic storms across the period it came in as the 13th most extreme storm, warranting the attribution of ‘Great’.
Werner Brozek says: December 27, 2012 at 3:23 pm
To the nearest year, there has been no warming at all for 16 years, statistical or otherwise, on several data sets.
Data sets with a o slope for at least 15 years:
1. HadCrut3: since May 1997 or 15 years, 7 months (goes to November)
2. Sea surface temperatures: since March 1997 or 15 years, 8 months (goes to October)
3. RSS: since January 1997 or 15 years, 11 months (goes to November)
See the graph below to show it all.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1997.33/trend/plot/rss/from:1997.0/trend/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1997.1/trend/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1997.25/plot/rss/from:1997.0/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1997.1
Hello Werner
Would you be interested in writing an article for WUWT? I got in argument on this subject a few weeks back on this thread;
http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/global-weather-climate/
and was planning on analyzing all of the key temperature data sets with full year 2012 data to determine how long each has had no significant trend. Per your comment above and this one;
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/12/12/uah-global-temperature-down-slightly-for-november-2012/#comment-1171492
you are obviously ahead of me in this respect. If you are open to writing an article in early 2013, I would be happy to help edit and post it on WUWT. In fact, we might want to make this a regular feature. I’ll send you an email, please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks
JTF
There does not seem to be very much older ice lost this winter so far looking at this.
http://www.aari.ru/odata/_d0015.php?lang=1&mod=0&yy=2012
Just before the storm the ice was already on record track. Of course.
@ur momisugly mpainter 7.32
You gave it a try, to answer me, thats true, thank you;
but it is no answer;
every NSIDC graph shows a continuing decline in sea ice extent; PIOMAS is even worse in volume;
I havent seen a sign of the ‘new equilibrium’, although temperature is on a plateau the last decade;
this winter its also minimum, both in extent and volume;
well, we will see what is happening the coming summers;
regards;
@ur momisugly justthefactswuwt
I will read your article and come back to you later (very late for you because of timezone)), thanks;
regards
Stephen Wilde says:
December 27, 2012 at 5:10 am
Interestingly, powerful Arctic storms are more prevalent when jet stream meridionality increases because flows of warm air can more readily and more persistently approach the poles.
Such meridionality is a feature of a cooling world rather than a warming world and seems to be linked to low levels of solar activity.
Cue screams of ‘not possible’ from our favourite solar expert.
======================================
Many do not understand the paradoxical effect of short term weather on climate. As the positive amount of heat imbalance is forced outward to polar regions melting will occur, Not because it is getting warmer but because the amount of cooling air in polar regions leaves a negative pressure zone allowing that intrusion. Once the heat balance is regained is when true cooling takes hold rapidly. [We’re] simply in the buffer zone for a few years.. 16 to be exact… funny that is about the length of the buffer historically.
justthefactswuwt says:
December 27, 2012 at 10:35 pm
If you are open to writing an article in early 2013, I would be happy to help edit and post it on WUWT. In fact, we might want to make this a regular feature. I’ll send you an email, please let me know your thoughts.
Hello
Unfortunately, my regular computer is out of service and the email does not work with the laptop I am using now. I would be happy to have this as a regular feature if you wish, but I have been sending these monthly stats on both WUWT and on Dr. Spencer’s site whenever the monthly data comes out each month. Of course I may just have the latest month for RSS and UAH at the time and the previous month for the others. Is there any problem with simply taking my post and have you edit it as you see fit and then making it a top post every month? Are there any additions or deletions you would want me to make in order for it to be a top post?
I was thinking of adding the following for example:
For RSS the warming is NOT significant for 23 years.
For RSS: +0.130 +/-0.136 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1990
For UAH, the warming is NOT significant for 19 years.
For UAH: 0.143 +/- 0.173 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1994
For Hacrut3, the warming is NOT significant for 19 years.
For Hadcrut3: 0.098 +/- 0.113 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1994
For Hacrut4, the warming is NOT significant for 18 years.
For Hadcrut4: 0.098 +/- 0.111 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1995
For GISS, the warming is NOT significant for 17 years.
For GISS: 0.113 +/- 0.122 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1996
(By the way, do you know why wti has stopped in August? I may have to stop this line if it is not being done anymore.)
Antony is absolutely right. Without the record storm, the sea ice extent would NOT have set a record low. Now….if he can explain the other 33 years since 1979 that has caused the Arctic sea ice VOLUME to drop over 72% from 1979 to 2012……we would be in good shape:)
Every discussion of Arctic sea ice that purports a global process as cause, must, if hoping for intellectual respect, discuss Antarctic sea ice as well.
Since the sum of the sea ice of both poles is the measure of “global” sea ice, this sum is relevant. And this sum has been apparently stable for a long time—-making the statement “Arctic Sea Ice decline is due to global warming” improbable, at best.
@ur momisugly justthefactswuwt
cRRkampen (28/12 01.43) is right, sea ice was in July allready on record-low-track
check NSIDC July 2012 compared to recent years (1979 – 2012)
http://tinyurl.com/8dr4dgk
so, before reading all the other stuff, my question becomes a bit more precise: how come you wrote: Record Arctic Storm Melted Sea Ice
thats all, thanks, regards;
@ur momisugly justthefactswuwt / December 27, 2012 at 9:43 pm
the link you provided indeed answers most of my questions:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/16/the-economist-provides-readers-with-erroneous-information-about-arctic-sea-ice/
specially the remarks of Peter Wadhams in the the Economist article ‘Uncovering an ocean’ are very helpfull:
According to Peter Wadhams of Cambridge University, the average thickness of the pack ice has fallen by roughly half since the 1970s, probably for two main reasons. One is a rise in sea temperatures: in the summer of 2007 coastal parts of the Arctic Ocean measured 7°C—bracingly swimmable. The other was a prolonged eastward shift in the early 1990s in the Arctic’s prevailing winds, known as the Arctic Oscillation.
( http://tinyurl.com/c57khx6 )
If you had written, first there was warming, later there was also wind and current there would have been less confusion;
If Monckton had written ‘increase of warming has stropped’, in stead of ‘warming has stopped’ it would have been clear immediately;
regards and best wishes for the new year; over and out;
Martin van Etten,
I think you are missing the central point: the decline in Arctic ice is an example of completely harmless natural variability. On balance, an ice-free Arctic would be a real benefit, drastically reducing fuel costs for shipping, and reducing transit times. The ice is floating, therefore it would not contribute one millimeter to the sea level.
Climate alarmists cannot ever bring themselves to admit that many of the changes we observe are a net benefit. CO2 certainly falls into that category, as does the decline in Arctic sea ice. But when the alarmist belief system requires that they demonize every possible change, they have no choice: their religion requires it, and apostasy is not tolerated.
Looking at the data from Jaxa and from the NSIDC, there were really 5 different periods this year that were substantially different than normal. Otherwise, 2012 was mostly just the average growth/melt rates.
– In February and March, the ice continued to gain extent at a higher level than normal;
– In late-April, there was a large melt compared to normal;
– in early-June, the most change occurred compared to normal melt rates;
– in early to mid-August, the large storms broke up the ice and caused more melt over a longer period of time than is typical. Storms can do this and occur regularly but these ones lasted for almost 3 weeks; and,
– mid-October was an extremely large re-freeze event (this might becoming more common now but 2012 really sticks out).
Daily melt rate (5 day moving average change) versus the average going back to 1972 for both Jaxa and the NSIDC figures. Jaxa and the NSIDC are fairly similar although their base is different.
http://s7.postimage.org/y5bbvho2z/Daily_Sea_Ice_Change_Dec_2012.png
Werner Brozek says: December 28, 2012 at 10:11 am
I would be happy to have this as a regular feature if you wish, but I have been sending these monthly stats on both WUWT and on Dr. Spencer’s site whenever the monthly data comes out each month.
It will get more visibility as an article.
Of course I may just have the latest month for RSS and UAH at the time and the previous month for the others.
We should probably wait until all the data is in before publishing, i.e. do a update using using full year 2012 for all data sets and we can figure it out from there.
Is there any problem with simply taking my post and have you edit it as you see fit and then making it a top post every month?
We need to give it an article framework, with introductory and explanatory paragraphs so that it is reasonably comprehensible to a broad audience, We need to include images so that people can see the evidence without having to click. We need to meticulously link to and document the data sources and analysis methods, so that people can readily recreate and validate the results for themselves.
Are there any additions or deletions you would want me to make in order for it to be a top post?
I think what you have is a good start, but we will also need links to each Wood For Trees’ plot used to derive each result, so they can be included in the article and I can capture the images from there. I might also add in the image of each plot directly from its source, which I have most here:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/11/10/a-big-picture-look-at-earths-temperature-extreme-weather-update/
as well as links to the raw data;
http://www.woodfortrees.org/credits
in case people want to validate those. I can draft a few introductory and explanatory paragraphs, but will need you to also draft a few, including one clearly explaining your calculation method and rationale such that a high school student can easily understand and repeat it. If you can keep posting stuff in this thread, I’ll help you to frame out an article and fill it in.
I was thinking of adding the following for example:
For RSS the warming is NOT significant for 23 years.
For RSS: +0.130 +/-0.136 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1990
For UAH, the warming is NOT significant for 19 years.
For UAH: 0.143 +/- 0.173 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1994
For Hacrut3, the warming is NOT significant for 19 years.
For Hadcrut3: 0.098 +/- 0.113 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1994
For Hacrut4, the warming is NOT significant for 18 years.
For Hadcrut4: 0.098 +/- 0.111 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1995
For GISS, the warming is NOT significant for 17 years.
For GISS: 0.113 +/- 0.122 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1996
I would include the prior year anomaly, prior year overall rank, and the warmest year with anomaly. Also a link to the Wood For Trees’ plot and the source for the ranking and anomaly. There might be additional elements, but let’s see how it develops. This article should be an unbiased and unimpeachable assessment of each temperature data set.
(By the way, do you know why wti has stopped in August? I may have to stop this line if it is not being done anymore.)
The WTI (WoodForTrees Temperature Index)
I suspect that the reason that WTI hasn’t been updated since August;
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/wti/last:12/plot/gistemp/last:12/offset:-0.35/plot/hadcrut3vgl/last:12/offset:-0.26/plot/rss/last:12/offset:-0.10/plot/uah/last:12
may be related to this;
but recommend that you email paul at woodfortrees.com, as I am sure that he would welcome the heads up and he might be able to readily fix the WTI.
Martin van Etten says: December 28, 2012 at 2:19 pm
how come you wrote: Record Arctic Storm Melted Sea Ice
It was the title of the article that I excerpted from and linked to, i.e.:
http://www.livescience.com/25809-arctic-storm-reduced-sea-ice.html
Martin van Etten says: December 28, 2012 at 3:13 pm
According to Peter Wadhams of Cambridge University, the average thickness of the pack ice has fallen by roughly half since the 1970s, probably for two main reasons. One is a rise in sea temperatures: in the summer of 2007 coastal parts of the Arctic Ocean measured 7°C—bracingly swimmable. The other was a prolonged eastward shift in the early 1990s in the Arctic’s prevailing winds, known as the Arctic Oscillation.
Sea temperature and sea ice are quite difficult to untangle, i.e. did increased sea temperature cause a decrease in sea ice, did a decrease in sea ice cause an increase in sea temperature, or both?
If you had written, first there was warming, later there was also wind and current there would have been less confusion;
But what you have written is erroneous, according to this 2012 paper “Subarctic and Arctic sea surface temperature and its relation to ocean heat content 1982–2010”:
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2012/2011JC007770.shtml
Figure 7 shows this quite well:
http://www.agu.org/journals/jc/jc1206/2011JC007770/2011jc007770-op07-tn-350x.jpg
This NOAA Arctic Sea Surface Temperature plot;
http://www.grida.no/graphicslib/thumbs/1805c933-493c-4b85-be16-ad06eb342332/medium/arctic-ocean-surface-temperatures_1242.jpg
also shows that Arctic Sea Temperature began to increase in the 1990s.
Similarly, Peter Wadhams of Cambridge University stated in the Economist article that there
This 2004 Science Daily article, ”Winds, Ice Motion Root Cause Of Decline In Sea Ice, Not Warmer Temperatures”;
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041220010410.htm
states that:
This 2003 paper “Arctic climate change: observed and modelled temperature and sea-ice variability“;
http://www.tellusa.net/index.php/tellusa/article/download/14418/16180
states that:
This 2001 paper, “Fram Strait Ice Fluxes and Atmospheric Circulation: 1950–2000”;
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0442%282001%29014%3C3508%3AFSIFAA%3E2.0.CO%3B2
states that:
As such it appears that, at minimum, the changes in wind and current occurred simultaneous to the increase in sea temperature, and there is in fact evidence that “extreme changes in the Arctic Oscillation in the early 1990s — and not warmer temperatures of recent years — are largely responsible for declines in how much sea ice covers the Arctic Ocean”.
If Monckton had written ‘increase of warming has stropped’, in stead of ‘warming has stopped’ it would have been clear immediately;
I am not sure what you mean. Do you dispute Werner’s calculations?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/12/27/record-arctic-storm-melted-sea-ice/#comment-1184736
If yes, why? Do you think that Earth has warmed significantly in the last 10 – 15 years? Can you present data such that we can validate it?
If no, then how many years without warming do you think are necessary before we can reasonably state that the “warming has stopped”?
regards and best wishes for the new year
May you have an enlightened, happy and healthy New Year
justthefactswuwt says:
December 28, 2012 at 7:39 pm
Thank you for your reply. I will work on the things you mentioned and send everything to this site and let you decide how to present it. But just a few questions and comments for now.
We should probably wait until all the data is in before publishing, i.e. do a update using using full year 2012 for all data sets and we can figure it out from there.
I have no problem with that, however I have been sending this information to Dr. Spencer’s site and the WUWT site as soon as the UAH monthly anomaly is in. As you know, UAH may come out on the third day of the month and right now, December 28, hadsst2 is still not out for November! As you may know, whenever someone asks about things, I often just give the latest, whether it is the monthly rank or the longest time the slope is 0. Virtually no one looks at a site 25 days after it first comes out. So would it be OK if on January 4, I just do what I have been doing this past year and then at the end of January send you the numbers for all of 2012? And then at the end of every month, I could send you the monthly stats for all data sets.
Is there any reason we cannot have a separate blog post once all November data is in?
I would include the prior year anomaly, prior year overall rank, and the warmest year with anomaly.
I have been doing the “warmest year with anomaly” along with the warmest month. However it would be no problem adding the other two items.
Did you want me to add the information for 5 data sources such as:
For RSS the warming is NOT significant for 23 years.
For RSS: +0.130 +/-0.136 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1990
My source for this information is http://www.skepticalscience.com/trend.php
but recommend that you email paul at woodfortrees.com, as I am sure that he would welcome the heads up and he might be able to readily fix the WTI.
I tried to do that a month or two ago and just got an automatic reply but no results.
If you want biographical information:
I was working on my metallurgical engineering degree using a slide rule when the first men landed on the moon. I love playing with new toys such as the WFT graphs. I retired last year after teaching high school physics and/or chemistry for 39 years.
@kwinterkorn:
Especially given the “Polar See-Saw” that causes a long cycle oscillation between the two poles…
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/d-o-ride-my-see-saw-mr-bond/
D.O, events and Heinrich Events have such a process, with alternating warming / cooling of opposite poles. It looks like it is related to changes of the thermohaline rate.
@Whoever it was did a ‘drive by’ on “arctic melt with no warming”:
At the Heartland conference in Chicago a presentation was made (somewhat as a ‘bonus’ and not on the schedule) of an image / movie of ocean temperature patterns over time in the Pacific. It showed that temperatures start at the equator and slowly spread upward toward Alaska. It takes about 18 years (IIRC) for the water to reach the Arctic. So the Arctic melt NOW is from the warming in 1994, roughly. So you have about 3 or 4 more years max before it gets very cold… and lots of ice returns. Given that the ocean temp map presently shows the oceans lacking excess heat, it might be closer than that… There’s also an AMO temp cycle lag time that IIRC is shorter.
Basically, it takes a while after the burner is shut off (in the equatorial heat gain zone) for the water in the water heater to run out in the shower…. (arctic heat loss zone).
Martin van Etten says: December 28, 2012 at 4:34 am
========================
I truly do not understand your claim that “every NSIDC graph shows a continuing decline in sea ice extent”. Manifestly, the graph shows the opposite with respect to recent years. The Year 2007 shows the record minimum with every year (2008, 2009, 2010, 2011) since then above that, except for this year, which minimum extent surpassed 2007 but this was due to the extraordinary storm of August, and not to any warming factor. The NSIDC graph confirms the equilibrium principle I gave above.
This equilibrium could shift if the influx of Gulf Stream warmth into the Arctic Sea altered, but this could go either way. The essential point is that Arctic warming is due to warmer SST and especially Gulf Stream derived warmth. The greenhouse effect is of little consequence in determining sea ice extent.
You introduced the question of ice volume, a metric different from extent. I did not address volume in my post. The volume reduction is due in part to melt, but in part to evacuation of multi-year ice southward along the eastern Greenland coast. I do not know how separate metrics can be obtained for these two processes, or how much volume reduction is attributable solely to melt.
Concerning winter sea ice extent this year, when this winter is over we will have a basis for comparison, but not yet. regards, mpainter
Martin van Etten says: December 27, 2012 at 6:11 pm
I asked how come there is arctic melt, while there is no warming
Further to your question, I just came across another reference, the “Impact of the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC) on Arctic Surface Air Temperature and Sea Ice Variability” Salil Mahajan, Rong Zhang and Thomas L. Delworth, 2011:
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/2011JCLI4002.1
Thus there are numerous reasons why “arctic melt” can occur, “while there is no warming”. Less than a degree Celsius of warming in air temperature;
ftp://ftp.ssmi.com/msu/graphics/tlt/plots/rss_ts_channel_tlt_northern%20polar_land_and_sea_v03_3.png
and sea surface temperature;
http://www.grida.no/graphicslib/thumbs/1805c933-493c-4b85-be16-ad06eb342332/medium/arctic-ocean-surface-temperatures_1242.jpg
cannot cause 3 – 5 meter thick multi-year ice to melt in the brief and chilly Arctic summer. Rather wind, currents and storms that break-up and move 3 – 5 meter thick multi-year ice into warmer waters, appear to be the primary causes of the decrease in Arctic sea ice.
Furthermore, a significant portion of the atmospheric warming in Arctic, aka Arctic Amplification, doesn’t appear to be related to “Global Warming”, rather it’s caused by an array of factors, e.g.:
The central role of diminishing sea ice in recent Arctic temperature amplification, Screen & Simmonds 2010;
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7293/full/nature09051.html
The abstract states that;
Here’s another paper, “Vertical structure of recent Arctic warming” by Rune G. Graversen, Thorsten Mauritsen1, Michael Tjernström, Erland Källén & Gunilla Svensson, Nature, 2008.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v451/n7174/abs/nature06502.html
The abstract states that;
Here’s another paper, Arctic air temperature change amplification and the Atlantic
Multidecadal Oscillation, by Petr Chylek, Chris K. Folland, Glen Lesins, Manvendra K. Dubey, and Muyin Wang, Geophysical Research Letter, 2009:
http://www.lanl.gov/source/orgs/ees/ees14/pdfs/09Chlylek.pdf
It states that;
Here we have three recent papers that state that, “Arctic warming” “is primarily consistent with reductions in sea ice cover.” or “A significant proportion of the observed temperature amplification must therefore be explained by mechanisms that induce warming above the lowermost part of the atmosphere.” or “the Arctic temperature changes are highly correlated with the Atlantic Multi-decadal Oscillation (AMO) suggesting the Atlantic Ocean thermohaline circulation is linked to the Arctic temperature variability on a multi-decadal time scale.”
Earth’s climate system is ridiculously complex;
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/30/earths-climate-system-is-ridiculously-complex-with-draft-link-tutorial/
with a dizzying array of variables;
http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/research-pages/potential-climatic-variables/
many of which we have a limited understanding of:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/10/29/new-wuwt-polar-vortex-reference-page/
We must take into account all of the significant variables in order to make an accurate attribution of causation.
Meh. Storm or no storm the ice still set a record low. The storm obviously contributed to the low ice but clearly isn’t the whole story; it is at most part of the mechanism but not the cause. Climatewise I think you’d have to be pretty hard headed not to admit that something has changed in the Arctic over the past decade that bears close watching.
The trouble is we really don’t have a long enough baseline of data to understand how unusual what we are seeing up there at the moment really is. What was ice doing in the warm 1930’s? What was it like in the MWP. We have tantalising hints that there may have been periods with a lot less ice up there, but no real hard historical data. Except we mustn’t forget that Greenland was settled once and even now it is still far too cold in Greenland to permit that again. It would therefore seem to me that there is no cause yet for alarm. It has clearly been warmer at least in Greenland (and by inference quite likely also in the Arctic) in the past than it is right now.
What are the likely effects of low ice in the Arctic? Any signs of danger? Not that I can see. Perhaps more heat radiated to space from the exposed ocean in early winter. Perhaps more winter precipitation in the Northern hemisphere (harsher winters – more sunlight reflected back to space). These seem to be negative feedbacks not positive ones. No sign of a tipping point. Methane bears watching but temperatures are well below what would be needed for methane release. At the moment there seems to be no danger of it getting warm enough in the places where the methane is to cause a problem.
So … interesting. But no cause for alarm. And no reason to believe that what we are seeing up there is beyond the realm of natural variation and has not happened many times before. On the other hand the observed recent decline in arctic ice is pretty much the only prediction of the climate change enthusiasts that seems to be working out for them. So I expect them to try to make the most of it.
Mate, it’s melting, you can look for all the obtuse reasons you want but it doesen’t matter how you cut it the truth is it’s melting, get used to it.
Werner Brozek says: December 28, 2012 at 9:17 pm
Thank you for your reply.
Thank you for your contributions
I will work on the things you mentioned and send everything to this site and let you decide how to present it. But just a few questions and comments for now.
Sure.
“We should probably wait until all the data is in before publishing, i.e. do a update using using full year 2012 for all data sets and we can figure it out from there.
I have no problem with that, however I have been sending this information to Dr. Spencer’s site and the WUWT site as soon as the UAH monthly anomaly is in. As you know, UAH may come out on the third day of the month and right now, December 28, hadsst2 is still not out for November! As you may know, whenever someone asks about things, I often just give the latest, whether it is the monthly rank or the longest time the slope is 0. Virtually no one looks at a site 25 days after it first comes out. So would it be OK if on January 4.
Yes, this is fine. Now that I think about it, the first version of this article would probably be better as a crowdsourcing exercise e.g.;
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/11/23/crowdsourcing-the-wuwt-extreme-weather-reference-page/
such that we can post it for review, comment and challenge, in order to refine and polish it. Will you be available to respond to comments on Sunday Jan 6th if I can post it then?
I just do what I have been doing this past year and then at the end of January send you the numbers for all of 2012? And then at the end of every month, I could send you the monthly stats for all data sets.
Yes, that’s good, once we have full year 2012 data we can do another article later January or early Feb.
Is there any reason we cannot have a separate blog post once all November data is in?
No, I was figuring that all of the full-year data would be available earlier, I am used to the UAH and RSS schedule. What the hell is going on over at the Met Office Hadley Center? For some reason their website still shows October’s anomaly:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadsst2/
Perhaps they are still in shock over the recent aborted El Nino;
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/enso/monitoring/nino3_4.png
that must be dragging down HadSST2;
http://www.climate4you.com/images/HadSST2%20GlobalMonthlyTempSince1979%20With37monthRunningAverage.gif
just like it’s doing to NCDC;
http://www.climate4you.com/images/NCDC%20SST%20GlobalMonthlyTempSince1979%20With37monthRunningAverage.gif
and UAH MSU:
http://www.climate4you.com/images/MSU%20UAH%20SST%20GlobalMonthlyTempSince1979%20With37monthRunningAverage.gif
“I would include the prior year anomaly, prior year overall rank, and the warmest year with anomaly.
I have been doing the “warmest year with anomaly” along with the warmest month. However it would be no problem adding the other two items.
Did you want me to add the information for 5 data sources such as:
For RSS the warming is NOT significant for 23 years.
For RSS: +0.130 +/-0.136 C/decade at the two sigma level from 1990
Can you just build out a summary for one data source, then I will add the images and some explanatory text, and we can see what it looks like in an article? Once we see it laid out we can determine which data elements add the most value and we can do the same set for the rest. Perhaps we can build out RSS to include a full analysis and then see how it reads? We want it to be informative and balanced, but not overwhelming. Also, in terms of options and explanatory detail, I would go overboard, in order minimize the possibility of cherry picking accusations and reader confusion, intentional or otherwise.
My source for this information is http://www.skepticalscience.com/trend.php
That worries me, I do not consider sks to be a credible information source. Can you use WFT or another source to validate sks’ data?
I tried to do that a month or two ago and just got an automatic reply but no results.
We might have to donate a few bucks to get his attention:
http://www.justgiving.com/WFT
If you want biographical information:
I was working on my metallurgical engineering degree using a slide rule when the first men landed on the moon. I love playing with new toys such as the WFT graphs. I retired last year after teaching high school physics and/or chemistry for 39 years.
Yep, I’ll include it at the bottom, though I might flip it into the third person if you are ok with it, e.g.
Werner Brozek was working on his metallurgical engineering degree using a slide rule when the first men landed on the moon. Now he enjoys playing with new toys such as the WFT graphs. Werner retired in 2011 after teaching high school physics and chemistry for 39 years.
E.M.Smith says: December 28, 2012 at 9:46 pm
@kwinterkorn:
Especially given the “Polar See-Saw” that causes a long cycle oscillation between the two poles…
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/d-o-ride-my-see-saw-mr-bond/
D.O, events and Heinrich Events have such a process, with alternating warming / cooling of opposite poles
This article also provides a good overview:
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/6256/antarctic-arctic-cycles-are-sync
It looks like it is related to changes of the thermohaline rate.
The Cosmos article states that
I would add polar vorticity to the mix, and suggest that the See-Saw is an important area for us to better understand. The Cosmos article also states that;
Peak Warming Man says: December 29, 2012 at 12:01 am
Mate, it’s melting, you can look for all the obtuse reasons you want but it doesen’t matter how you cut it the truth is it’s melting, get used to it.
Yep, it’s likely a natural fluctuation in an incredibly complex system, with a minor anthropogenic element. As you say, we should just get used to it. The climate will continue fluctuating, regardless of what we do.