UPDATE: Via Business Insider, my posit that this was a typo is confirmed. See below.
At first I didn’t believe this, but there it is on the Federal bids page, screencap and link below. See the screencaps for an explantion. – Anthony
Via Drudge and Infowars:
National Weather Service Follows DHS In Huge Ammo Purchase
Hollow point bullets designed to cause maximum organ damage
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Tuesday, August 14, 2012
Why would the National Weather Service need to purchase large quantities of powerful ammo? That’s the question many are asking after the federal agency followed in the footsteps of the Department of Homeland Security in putting out a solicitation for 46,000 rounds of hollow point bullets.
A solicitation which appears on the FedBizOpps website asks for 16,000 rounds of .40 S&W jacketed hollow point (JHP) bullets, noted for their strength, to be delivered to locations in Ellsworth, Maine, and New Bedford, Mass.
A further 6,000 rounds of S&W JHP will be sent to Wall, New Jersey, with another 24,000 rounds of the same bullets heading to the weather station in St. Petersburg, Florida.
The solicitation also asks for 500 paper targets to be delivered to the same locations in Maine, Massachusetts and New Jersey.
The National Weather Service is is one of six scientific agencies that make up the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).
The solicitation requires a response by August 21.
=================================================================
At first I thought maybe this was for bear/elk protection of technicians when they go to service some of those remote weather stations in the Maine woods. The bid solicitation has the Marine Fisheries Service listed as the buyer. NOAA does have game wardens for commercial ocean fishing and game fishing, but why would they route it through the National Weather Service, which has no such programs? This is either a typo, or one of those convoluted government tree structures.
===============================================================
UPDATE: Business Insider, who reported on the issue last night, has the story (h/t to WUWT reader Timothy Ray Erney). As I noted above, it was a typo.
We talked to Scott Smullen, the Deputy Director of NOAA Communications & External Affairs who says the announcement is a mistake and is apparently being corrected at the time of this writing.
From Scott’s email:
Due to a clerical error in the federal business vendor process, a solicitation for ammunition and targets for the NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement mistakenly identified NOAA’s National Weather Service as the requesting office. The error is being fixed and will soon appear correctly in the electronic federal bidding system. The ammunition is standard issue for many law enforcement agencies and it will be used by 63 NOAA enforcement personnel in their firearms qualifications and training.
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Actually, based on conversations with some law enforcement folks I know, only in Hollywood does body armor allow someone to take a hit and barely notice. In reality, even a 9mm hit is likely to break a rib. Taking a hit on your armor is similar to being hit with a baseball bat – about 350 pounds of force if I remember the number correctly.
Wow – this is NOT your usual WUWT conversation~ 🙂
Oops – just read the updated notice. Unless that was a cover up – I rescind my last comment. Thanks ! ;-
Gunga Din: “Maybe they read Anthony et al’s paper and are going to put all those bad stations out of their misery?”
A case of “Shoot the Messenger”.
@ur momisugly JonasM says:
August 14, 2012 at 6:58 pm
Curiousgeorge says:
August 14, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Btw, in case nobody has noticed, there’s a lot of very big cons, and druggies running around loose who make a habit of wearing kevlar. A .40 won’t even tickle them.
Actually, based on conversations with some law enforcement folks I know, only in Hollywood does body armor allow someone to take a hit and barely notice. In reality, even a 9mm hit is likely to break a rib. Taking a hit on your armor is similar to being hit with a baseball bat – about 350 pounds of force if I remember the number correctly.
Wow – this is NOT your usual WUWT conversation~ 🙂
*****************************************************************
No, it sure isn’t. Refreshing change, imho. 🙂
RE: getting shot – I recall a certain shootout in LA a few years ago, in which a couple bad guys took several shots and kept on ticking and shooting back. I believe they had doubled up on the kevlar; but in any event you can put a bullet in a man’s heart and if he’s in reasonably good physical condition and/or pumped up on adrenaline, pcp, meth, or any of a dozen designer drugs, he’ll still be functional enough to kill you for about 15 seconds. A very long time in a gunfight (take it from a retired combat Marine).
That is one of the reasons the 1911 .45 was developed. The .38’s used in the Philippines insurrection at the start of the last century were not stopping the natives. Something powerful enough to knock a big man down was required. A 38, 9mm, or .40 just won’t do that.
… more Kim Dotcoms … ?
Dr. Dave says: “The 9mm is an amazing round in terms of energy, velocity, relatively mild recoil, and extremely efficient use of materials (i.e. brass and lead).”
Don’t you mean an amazing round in terms of lacking energy? 🙂
Dr. Dave says: “Both the 9mm and the .45 ACP were developed over 100 years ago. They were both designed as man killers and not for hunting.”
If true, then based on shootings and autopsies the 9mm was a failure. The .45 ACP is known as 1-shot man stopper, the 9mm is not. Paraphrasing: When a man with a 9mm meets a man with a .45, the man with a 9mm will be ‘the’ dead man.
They’re preparing for the new pandemics. Spread this info from Jane Burgermeister:
I have a Marlin lever action .35 Remington. The tube uses either round nose or sharp rubber tip bullets. The round nose are cheap, the rubber tips expensive. However, if I want to target in my gun in any way that is accurate for when I need it to be accurate, I use the expensive rounds. Yes it seems a waste of ammo, but if I want a kill shot instead of a wounded animal hiding in the bushes, I’ll use the expensive ammo to target in my rifle.
Our government is becoming dangerous to its citizens. Something has changed recently.
“Paranoia is the fear of unreal wierdos. Who has time for unreal wierdos when there are so many real ones running around?”
Odd Bodkins
Hey Pamela Gray, glad to hear you are going for your first big game animals . The hunting in your part of the state is fantastic and my wife and I plan to be there again this year as we’ve drawn tags . I hope you score on all three , my wife has many times taken dear elk and bear and handles her own animals and carries a heavy load of meat . She is a petite 120 lbs. and a deadly shot so I,m sure you can do it . In my experience where you are most deer kills are in the 100 to 200 yard range and most elk in the 300 plus . Your .35 will do the job as long as you point it right . My wife once took a four by deer at 400 yards but that isn’t her common kill range. And she has bagged more elk than I have. She has had better luck in the tag drawing. And no I don’t shoot her game for her. If I did that I would have to learn how to cook 🙂 . Good Hunting !
[snip -over the top]
I keep a loaded pump shotgun (& bandolier of shells) at the homestead with first shell having no shot in it – just gunpowder for my 1st bark, or as my strategic secret in case someone else manages to get hold of it.
“…We had a formal wedding,
white shot gun –
her pappy seemed happy,
to have me for a son.”
“…The buck shot hit me-
as I was flyin’ out the door!”
So ammunition banned by the Geneva Convention is OK for US Federal agencies for use against their own population, who else is it for use against?
Or perhaps they are fed up with Hansen are on the war path.
Syria?????
John Marshall says:
August 15, 2012 at 2:49 am
So ammunition banned by the Geneva Convention is OK for US Federal agencies for use against their own population, who else is it for use against?
Or perhaps they are fed up with Hansen are on the war path.
Its not so much about conventions, as the measured application of force. A major mandated issue for the LEO in an urban firefight is where the misses go. A frangible bullet gives a little satisfaction that you might not take out 3 kids in two apartments as well, as well as having the effect of bringing the issue to a close more quickly. With regard to conventions, in “traditional” battlefield war, casualties are a given. A military hardpoint will either kill you or incapacitate you, while the HP makes a mess to treat (yeah, yeah). In the urban fight, the perp has the option of not escalating in the first place – engaging in a firefight is not his sworn duty. So, choices as to the outcome.
One last comment re: who is actually getting this stuff. Often one government office will be assigned procurement responsibility for other offices within an overall federal agency. This is done to (gasp) prevent duplication of staff etc. So don’t try to read meaning into which office is listed in the procurement announcement. It may or may not have anything to do with who actually uses it or whose budget within the agency pays for it.
Before y’all go off half-cocked (pun intended) it’s worth asking calm questions about such things.
With regard to the .45, in a traditional Colt, its only saving grace is its slow whomper of a bullet. In all other respects the gun is a pig. Heavy, bulky, mostly unsafe to carry in ” condition one”, low mag capacity and hard for small frame individuals to shoot accurately. Even a 9mm double stack is a handful for many women, as is noted, pretty much a mandatory double-tapper. the .40S&W is a nice compromise, and can be a reasonably compact firearm. However, given my druthers, in a handgun firefight, I’d prefer to be the guy on the roof with the .338 Lap
“tallbloke says:
August 14, 2012 at 11:00 am
Bob Tisdale says:
August 14, 2012 at 9:10 am
The chipmunks near the weather stations can be dangerous when provoked.
Russian killer squirrel squads are far more dangerous:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4489792.stm ”
The interesting thing in this article are the words “although scientists are sceptical. ” in a BBC report.
Armed EPA OIG Folks
As long as we’re wandering through federal purchasing systems, don’t know how many people realize that the EPA’s office of inspector general bought 100…
“SIG Sauer Model P229 Semi-Automatic Pistol (P229); E29R-357-BSS-G; Caliber .357 SIG; DA/SA old style Alloy Frame; Stainless Slide; Black Nitron Finish; DA/SA Trigger; Supplied with three MecGar twelve (12)-round magazines and Trijicon three (3) Dot (White ? Glow Green) Night Sights; Milled locking inserts; and, Manufacturer carry case. ”
last August… Dudes have good taste in arms and all, but EPA armed now? and “Pricing shall include armor certification and training, as well as add-on three (3) day conceal weapon carry course for up to ten (10) total armors/instructors.”
Hmmmm…makes me want to find an EPA, Secret Service, or Capitol Policeman to sit near next time we go to the movies.
Secret Service Ammo Buy, Too
OK, as we continue our looking through Federal Bids, we see in June the Secret Service was shopping for “40,000 rounds with two options for 20,000 rounds” of Winchester .300 Magnums. Awarded to an outfit in Rapid City June 30, if we’re reading it and all to be delivered before year end.
Urgent Update: 600,000 Rounds to Capitol Police!
I must not be reading this Federal Bid right: WTF do Capitol Police need 600,000 rounds of .40 cal for? I quote from the Federal web site:
“The United States Capitol Police, Training Services Bureau has a requirement to procure the following Ammunitions: 1. (600) 165 Grain Gold Dot Hollow Point, 40 S&W, 1,000/Case – 53970;
NOTE: Ship in 2 equal shipments of 300,000 rds each. The first delivery no later than September 30, 2012 and second delivery no later than December 30, 2012.”
Something’s going on – and we’re still digging… But’cha know, for an administration that is down on gun control for The People, seems like a lot of .40 cal to be3 buying…. we continue our looking…
Urgent Update: Things Just Got Worse
OK, maybe we get a little paranoid around here sometimes but the revelation leaking out today that the Commerce Department’s NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE is looking to buy lage quantities of ammunication and targets has us going with a kserious WTF? moment… We quote from the federal government’s bidding and procurement site:
“The DOC NOAA National Weather Service – Western Acquisition Division ? Boulder requires the following items, Purchase Description Determined by Line Item, to the following:
LI 001, 16,000 rounds of ammunition for semiautomatic pistols to be factory-loaded .40 S&W caliber, 180-grain jacketed hollow point (JHP). No reloads may be used with these weapons. All service furnished ammunition for issued firearms will be U.S. factory production. ?Inside Delivery? to locations below: NED: 8,000 rounds to: Ross Lane DOC, NOAA, NMFS, OLE, NED 130 Oak Street, Suite 5, Ellsworth, ME, 04605 8,000 rounds to: Troy Audyatis, DOC, NOAA, NMFS, OLE, NED 53 North 6th Street, Room 214 New Bedford, MA, 02740., 16, Cases;
LI 002, 24,000 rounds of ammunition for semiautomatic pistols to be factory-loaded .40 S&W caliber, 180-grain jacketed hollow point (JHP). No reloads may be used with these weapons. All service furnished ammunition for issued firearms will be U.S. factory production. ”
More on the bidding website…since we just know you’re not going to a gun show this weekend… Hollow points for the weathermen? Or, government trying to hide massive 40-cal arms acquisitions? You make the call… — UrbanSurvival
Links: https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=f2d7d3dfeeb3b41bdd08626f71a73a7c&tab=core&_cview=0
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=33540650c417c8b046c64dc599c3ace9&tab=core&_cview=0
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=31c776bf4c729fb7ae0d6319fe8fd185&tab=core&_cview=1
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=bfd95987a1ad9a6dfb22bca4a19150cb&_cview=0
I’ll go with those commenters with shooting experience: training, practice and qualification ammunition for those fisheries officers who carry. The paper target order sort of gives it away. No one has indicated how much time this buy is for, but it really doesn’t sound like much ammunition. Train with what you carry. Hollow points are pretty much the standard law enforcement and defense rounds. Heck, I’ve been shooting .22 hollow points for almost 50 years and hollow points in other calibers for almost as long. This is a non-story.
You don’t shoot fish with Hollow points. You don’t shoot fish period. “I love you’re ‘Nothing to see here'” response, it’s exactly what the government wants you to think! Why cite FAR 6.302-2 for “unusual and compelling urgency”, and the delivery time requirements?
I’ve sent tens of thousands of rounds downrange and I’ve yet to see anyone in the Metro Toronto Police range or the RCMP at Regina Depot’s ranges (the big training center midwest) using hollow points as they cost literally twice if not thrice standard shot. Come to think of it, I’ve seen hp rounds at CFB Winnipeg and CFB Borden though. You Americans sure like to spend when you don’t have to Anthony.
Eugene S Conlin,
Russian killer squirrel squads are far more dangerous:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4489792.stm ”
The interesting thing in this article are the words “although scientists are sceptical. ” in a BBC report.
Scientists sceptical? But the model clearly shows Russia’s inner city squirrels are gang-centric.
Mariss Freimanis says:
August 14, 2012 at 8:53 pm
Our government is becoming dangerous to its citizens. Something has changed recently.
=================
The problem started in the 1970’s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._incarceration_rates_1925_onwards.png
Incarceration is a business model. It keeps taxpayers paying money. It keeps people employed. It keeps criminals off the streets, and politicians can’t not keep promising to lock up baddies.