UPDATE: 12/21/11 4PM -BBC covers Tallbloke, finally, Richard Black still silent- Norfolk constabulary to share hand-off Climategate investigation, and Greg Laden caves – see below
Dec 14th -The first blogger to break the Climategate2 story has had a visit from the police and has had his computers seized. Tallbloke’s Talkshop first reported on CG2 due to the timing of the release being overnight in the USA. Today he was raided by six UK police (Norfolk Constabulary and Metropolitan police) and several of his computers were seized as evidence. He writes:
After surveying my ancient stack of Sun Sparcstations and PII 400 pc’s, they ended up settling for two laptops and an adsl broadband router. I’m blogging this post via my mobile.
That means his cellphone. In his blog report are all the details. including actions in the US involving WordPress and the US Department of Justice. Jeff Id at The Air Vent also has a report here.
Strange and troubling that they’d seize his computers for comments dropped onto a US service (wordpress.com) from the cloud. There wouldn’t be any record on his PC’s of the event from FOIA’s placing comments, that would be in the wordpress.com server logs.
Either there’s more than meets the eye or they have no idea how the blog system works.
UPDATE: I’ve been in contact with Roger (Tallbloke) and he tells me that he is not a suspect, and that they’ll clone his hard drives and return the computers to him. – Anthony
UPDATE2: 12/15/9AM It seems that the story has gone viral on blogs. Four skeptic blogs are in the top ten of all WordPress blogs today. While I’ve seen 2 at a time on CG1 and CG2, four has never happened before. This is from my wordpress.com dashboard:
From top to bottom, WUWT, The Air Vent, Tallbloke’s Talkshop, Climate Audit.
UPDATE3: Delingpole in the Telegraph thinks its going to escalate
UPDATE4: Horner in The Washington Examiner weighs in
UPDATE5: The Guardian picks up on the story here
UPDATE6: Jo Nova suggests it is a form of intimidation
UPDATE7: Josh weighs in with two cartoons
UPDATE8: Greg Laden on Scienceblogs accuses Tallbloke of being a “criminal” – a claim really over the line and over the top. Clearly this is outside of the Code of Conduct for Scienceblogs.com (contact page here) Of course, after reading the rant of hate this man has for anyone not like him, especially Americans in some states, I suppose it’s just another day for him. Update: I sent off a complaint to the editors of Sb about this, and it appears that Laden has been asked to remove the libelous language, though the post remains as does his hateful attitude in comments.
UPDATE9: Lord Monckton to pursue fraud charges against Climategate scientists: Will present to police the case for ‘numerous specific instances of scientific or economic fraud’
Monckton: ‘I have begun drafting a memorandum for prosecuting authorities…to establish…the existence of numerous specific instances of scientific or economic fraud in relation to the official ‘global warming’ storyline…they will act, for that is what the law requires them to do’
Story at ClimateDepot here
UPDATE10: More than a couple of people have asked me about computer security in the last couple of days, especially after the Tallbloke raid incident.
I’m offering a simple security solution for those that want to protect their files: a USB flash drive with built in hardware security. See it here
UPDATE11: A copy of the search warrant can be seen at Climate Audit
UPDATE 12: The BBC’s Richard Black is silent, probably because he can’t “… find an angle that will allow the BBC to maintain the usual warmists good, sceptics bad holding pattern”.
UPDATE13: Tallbloke apparently is going to take legal action against ScienceBlogs and blogger Greg Laden over his libelous article (now modified to not be libelous) accusing Tallbloke of being involved in criminal activity, and is soliciting barristers. Laden says on his blog in comments:
“I think he’s a criminal for being a climate denialist. Sue me. “
Looks like Greg Laden will get his wish.
UPDATE14: Rep Markey has an “off with their heads” moment, Jeff Id explains how the connections being made are preposterous.
UPDATE15: Tallbloke has decided to take the libel issue with Laden to tort. A letter from his attorney is posted.
UPDATE16: Planetsave makes another libel with the headline: “Criminal Who Manufactured Climategate Caught?” The clueless writer, Zachary Shahan, is about as far away from understanding journalism as anyone I’ve seen. He’s in for a nasty surprise as Tallbloke has added him to the tort list.
UPDATE18: UK cartoonist “Fenbeagle” has done up a Star Wars parody in the vein of The Empire Strikes Back. Mike Mann, Phil Jones, Jawas, and a Wookie are featured.
UPDATE19: Tom Nelson points out that Laden seems to have caved to impending legal action: Warmist Greg Laden: Did I say that tallbloke is a criminal? I meant he’s not a criminal. Details here
UPDATE20: Tallbloke reflects on the solstice and says that questions are starting to be asked in the UK.
UPDATE21: Tallbloke reports that:
In a sudden new development, your correspondent has learned that Norfolk Constabulary have decided that climategate is too big for them to handle. According to an un-named source, they intend to hand over the inquiry to another force.
This follows on the heels of a ‘request for a contact’ at Norfolk Constabulary by Lord Christopher Monckton in connection with his intention to have the police investigate revelations in the ‘climategate’ emails placed in the public domain.
UPDATE22: Donna LeFramboise writes in the Financial Post:
This is all rather chilling. It appears that being the proprietor of a blog in which strangers leave links pointing to material on third-party websites now exposes one to being raided by the police.
UPDATE23: The BBC finally gets around to covering the seizure episode almost a week later, unsurprisingly, the very biased Richard Black isn’t the reporter.
BBC Report on Youtube
http://youtu.be/10lUiNvpOYM
Permission obtained from the BBC reporter
many thanks for updated links
The police would need a warrant to take Tallbloke’s computers even if they didn’t contain special procedure or excluded material; however, the warrant as issued doesn’t allow seizure of material that may be, or might contain, special procedure or excluded material; despite the fact that the purpose of the warrant was to gather special procedure journalistic material, with no doubt the hope of gathering excluded confidential journalistic material.
Phil Jones and his Hockey Team friends are undoubtedly terrified that some outsider will prove them wrong and/or that their UK and US government grants will get yanked.
Keyword: terror. Patriot Act to the rescue!
I didn’t read tfn’s comment carefully enough, and missed the part “the police therefore had to get a warrant from a judge, a magistrate not having the authority.” It’s true that a judge can issue a warrant for special procedure materiel, but the issued warrant specifically requires that the material sought “does not consist of or include items subject to legal privilege, excluded material or special procedure material.”
Roger must be feeling a bit like “The Pedestrian”, a character in a short story by Ray Bradbury. He wrote it in 1953. Cold War sensibilities were, in this case, a fair predictor of things to come:
http://www.mikejmoran.typepad.com/files/pedestrian-by-bradbury-1.pdf
More people should see that video.
Just on Fox News:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/22/bloggers-not-journalists/
Best,
J.
MJW says:
December 19, 2011 at 6:11 pm
William Old: “[I]t’s quite possible that, at some stage, some or all of the material on Tallbloke’s drives might be found by a Court to be special procedure material, but it remains a fact that the District Judge did issue the warrant, and ipso facto the actions of the officers undertaking the search and seizure were (in the legal sense, and at the present time) lawful.”
My interest in the case I cited and the Bates case RB cited is mostly that taken together they suggest a basis for challenging the warrant. The warrant in the Bates case differs in an important way from the Tallbloke warrant. For the Bates search, the special procedure material was incidental; the search was for child pornography, not for items subject to legal privilege. For the Tallbloke search, the purpose was to seize special procedure material. The warrant was specifically intended to obtain information on Tallbloke’s blogging activity, which I believe is plainly “journalistic material.” Journalistic material is at least special procedure material, and may be excluded material if held in confidence. Yet the warrant declares the material sought does not consist of or contain excluded or special procedure material.
&
The police would need a warrant to take Tallbloke’s computers even if they didn’t contain special procedure or excluded material; however, the warrant as issued doesn’t allow seizure of material that may be, or might contain, special procedure or excluded material; despite the fact that the purpose of the warrant was to gather special procedure journalistic material, with no doubt the hope of gathering excluded confidential journalistic material
=======
So the police lied. Blatantly so as you and RB analyse it.
Disturbing his peace and the peace of his family, in the middle of the night when likely to be asleep, and claiming they were legally entitled to enter his home and search and take his computers, when they were not so entitled, is that fraud as well as theft?
So what’s the next move for Tallbloke?
Sign of the times
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1342547462001/bloggers-not-journalists
The actual dollar value of accurate weather forecasting: High? or Low?
This is a pretty good analysis:
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/socasp/weather1/macauley.html
If the value is actually pretty low, it might behoove the “keepers of the data” to cast hackers of their products as threats to national security, thus artificially inflating the value of their product and demonizing “the enemies of the cause”(?)
These recent events (of the the computer confiscations, etc) are happening with the backdrop of the (apparently real) Chinese hacker threat growing.
WSJ: Chinese hackers hit U.S. Chamber
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204058404577110541568535300.html
Actually, it seems that the visit was around 7pm, took 3 to 4 hours and the news broke around midnight.
Still, it’s bad enough having 6 Policemen around in one’s home for that length of time.
There is currently some suggestion that national security issues were involved which means that the civil liberties aspect could be somewhat restricted.Only the passing of time will reveal whether the national security aspect is reasonably relevant in relation to climate data.
We are working through the options as time goes by but I think it is important to give it a bit of a break over the Christmas and New Year period.
Roger and his partner need a rest and I imagine the individual Policemen involved do too. They appear to have been courteous throughout and are still communicating as best they can but the background is complex.
My personal thanks to all who have contributed and expressed interest. The many expressions of opinion have helped me in relation to strategic issues.
This is a novel way of conducting a legal case. It has never been done in such a way before but I just had to help a friend in whatever way seemed best at the time without regard to established norms.
I think it is more like internet based dispute resolution rather than the practice of law. Perhaps a new field is opening up?
Merry Christmas to all, including those unwise enough to suspend their disbelief when told that humanty can affect climate to a significant extent.
Let me explain, as far as I understand it, the special procedures provisions of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act.
Tha Tallbloke warrant was issued under section 8, which does not allow seizure of excluded and special procedure material: that it does not consist of or include items subject to legal privilege, excluded material or special procedure material.
Section 9 allows for seizure of excluded and special procedure under conditions set forth in Schedule 1.
Shedule 1, paragraph 1 provides: If on an application made by a constable a judge is satisfied that one or other of the sets of access conditions is fulfilled, he may make an order under paragraph 4 below.
Paragraph 4 provides: An order under this paragraph is an order that the person who appears to the judge to be in possession of the material to which the application relates shall—(a) produce it to a constable for him to take away; or (b) give a constable access to it,not later than the end of the period of seven days from the date of the order or the end of such longer period as the order may specify.
Paragraph 7 provides: An application for an order under paragraph 4 above shall be made inter partes.
So in order to obtain excluded and special procedure material under PACE, the constable must seek an order from a judge in a hearing where both sides can be heard.
An order can be sought under two possible conditions, defined in paragraphs 2 and 3. The paragraph 3 condition does not apply to warrants sought under PACE. It allows for warrants to be issued under previously passed Acts, provided certain conditions are met. Paragraph 2 allows warrants for special procedure to be issued under PACE with some important qualifications. First, as provided by 2(a)(ii), the material cannot include excluded material, and second, “(b) other methods of obtaining the material—(i) have been tried without success; or (ii) have not been tried because it appeared that they were bound to fail.” I think the first condition would fail, because it’s unreasonable to believe the warrant wasn’t sought in the hope of discovering some confidential communication between Tallbloke and FOIA. I think the second condition would fail, because if the goal were only to acquire non-confidential information, and if Tallbloke isn’t a suspect, it’s unreasonable to assume he wouldn’t voluntarily turn over the material if asked.
barry says:
“Whoever originally copied the emails and passed them on has committed a criminal act…”
In two words I can destroy that fantasy: “Prove it.”
For all barry knows, it may have been Phil Jones. That said, it is deliberate distraction to speculate about who may or may not have had the authority to post the emails. That’s not important, and that is not the point. What is important is the conspiracy to evade FOIA laws and other wrongdoing that is revealed in the emails.
Hey Barry – there are a bunch of people seeking to tuck you up real bad. Some correspondence on it has come into my hands in an unexpected manner and the miscreants certainly wouldn’t approve of this finding its way to you. Should I pass it on to you? Would you or I be abandoning truth to take this any further? (for clarity this is a fictional illustrative example only)
Stephen Wilde:
Established norms are a guide; not a regulation. Alas for too many, the norms become either chains that tether freedom, or worse; the refuge of those who seek to avoid taking responsibility.
If there’s a better way to do something; use that. Applying one’s intelligence to solving problems, in full knowledge of the norms, adds to the quality of life for all.
Stephen Wilde says:
December 21, 2011 at 3:11 pm
Why would climate data have anything to do with national security,domestic extremism or terrorism ?
Why, it’s a persistent (and rather infectious) meme, isn’t it?
Climate Denial Crock of the Week
with Peter Sinclair
Climate Hackers as Cyber Terrorists
December 22, 2011
Schneier [one of the most respected cyber-terrorism experts in the country] told me: “What I’ve been thinking about is whether the hack was intended to intimidate, threaten or bully. Then the crime becomes an effort to stop people from doing legitimate research. So, it is not just a data theft, but has a goal of creating a chilling effect, a threat, an intimidation.”
desmogblog.com – Clearing the PR Pollution that Clouds Climate Science
GRAHAM READFEARN 26 July 11
Norwegian Terrorist Anders Breivik Reveals Climate Denial Influences
The document [manifesto of Norwegian terrorist and Christian fundamentalist Anders Behring Breivik, currently facing trial for the massacre of 76 people] reveals how sceptic commentators had convinced him that the so-called “climategate” hacking of emails and data disproved human-cased climate change.
The Ernest Becker Foundation
Understanding the Violence of Climate Change Denial
By EBF Staff
Posted on September 26 2011
We continue to explore the close correlation of the denial of climate change to the denial of death.
According to Sheldon Solomon that keystone paper has greatly enhanced (quadrupled he says) the acceptance of the validity and importance of Terror Management Theory in the greater scientific community. That’s how strong her argument is. Translating that to disseminate it from our sphere of influence is our task.
The Australian
Carbon tax protesters labelled extremists as they rally in Canberra
BEN PACKHAM AND JOE KELLY
March 23, 2011 3:38PM
“It [an anti-carbon tax rally which is full of climate change deniers] is an appeal to extremism. And extremism will always be there in our community, but that doesn’t mean we should agree with it or we should give way to it.”
RollingStone
The Climate Killers
Meet the 17 polluters and deniers who are derailing efforts to curb global warming
Posted Jan 06, 2010 8:00 AM
by TIM DICKINSON
But that doesn’t mean that America’s largest carbon polluter plans to stop killing the climate.
BlueVirginia – …think globally, blog locally
Clarence Thomas’ Wife Embraces The Nuttiest Climate Science Denier
by: TheGreenMiles
Fri Dec 09, 2011 at 10:00:00 AM EST
I wouldn’t even describe her guests as Republicans – most are from the extreme conservative fringe […] One of Thomas’ most recent fawning videos was with infamous science denier Lord Christopher Monckton. […] If the Founding Fathers heard someone asking a hereditarily-titled British aristocrat for advice on how to run America’s government, they’d urge that person to take the next loyalist boat back to George III’s kingdom.
crikey
Hamilton: Denying the coming climate holocaust
by Clive Hamilton
Monday, 16 November 2009
climate deniers deserve greater moral censure than Holocaust deniers because their activities are more dangerous
Berényi Péter says:
December 22, 2011 at 7:09 pm
Thanks, some good examples of nuttiness there. They will be useful to me.
If we can make a start in detaching ScienceBlogs from that sort of paranoid and desperate conspiracy theorising then that would be progress.
Berényi Péter says:
December 22, 2011 at 7:09 pm
Thanks for posting those examples of nuttiness. They will be useful for future reference.
This is all far too similar to what the Pope and the Church of Rome did to Galileo.
It all gets nastier by the minute. Here’s power to Monckton’s elbow!
Bobski
Great job there! People on the our side need to be reminded from time to time what we are really up against. This is even more than a religion, it also is a mental illness. Those good folks on the non-alarmist side who are studiously fair and balanced (and naieve) would do well to remember this.
If someone kept a blog that accumulated all the kooks’ ClimateGate and related commentary (just like Berényi Péter has shown above), it would quickly develop into a database latger than the email releases, and would probably surpass them for usefulness too.
Can you please remove this post as “sticky” at the top? it’s getting to be stale, and its annoying to have to scroll down to find the latest posts..
Smokey,
Article 8 on the European Convention on Human Rights forbids the public dissemination of electronic communications between individuals at the workplace whether the company is publicly or privately owned. A leaker from CRU or the UEA would be prosecutable under EU legislation.
UK privacy laws require that employees protect their workers by securing their communications, whether phone, mail or electronic. Server operators are required to maintain communication confidentiality. Security breaches are prosecutable.
Hacking is illegal in most countries..
Note that the person responsible has taken pains to keep their identity secret. Had they done nothing illegal, it would have been prudent to reveal their identity – especially now when police are trying to track them down.
(This is my second reply. The first was either disallowed by the mods, or the links to the above got caught in the spam filter)
barry,
There you go with that ‘hacking’ nonsense again. Got proof?
barry;
The first reply probly got caught in the StoopFilter. E.g.: “that employees protect their workers”. Employees have workers?
IAC, public funding changes everything.