UPDATE: 12/21/11 4PM -BBC covers Tallbloke, finally, Richard Black still silent- Norfolk constabulary to share hand-off Climategate investigation, and Greg Laden caves – see below
Dec 14th -The first blogger to break the Climategate2 story has had a visit from the police and has had his computers seized. Tallbloke’s Talkshop first reported on CG2 due to the timing of the release being overnight in the USA. Today he was raided by six UK police (Norfolk Constabulary and Metropolitan police) and several of his computers were seized as evidence. He writes:
After surveying my ancient stack of Sun Sparcstations and PII 400 pc’s, they ended up settling for two laptops and an adsl broadband router. I’m blogging this post via my mobile.
That means his cellphone. In his blog report are all the details. including actions in the US involving WordPress and the US Department of Justice. Jeff Id at The Air Vent also has a report here.
Strange and troubling that they’d seize his computers for comments dropped onto a US service (wordpress.com) from the cloud. There wouldn’t be any record on his PC’s of the event from FOIA’s placing comments, that would be in the wordpress.com server logs.
Either there’s more than meets the eye or they have no idea how the blog system works.
UPDATE: I’ve been in contact with Roger (Tallbloke) and he tells me that he is not a suspect, and that they’ll clone his hard drives and return the computers to him. – Anthony
UPDATE2: 12/15/9AM It seems that the story has gone viral on blogs. Four skeptic blogs are in the top ten of all WordPress blogs today. While I’ve seen 2 at a time on CG1 and CG2, four has never happened before. This is from my wordpress.com dashboard:
From top to bottom, WUWT, The Air Vent, Tallbloke’s Talkshop, Climate Audit.
UPDATE3: Delingpole in the Telegraph thinks its going to escalate
UPDATE4: Horner in The Washington Examiner weighs in
UPDATE5: The Guardian picks up on the story here
UPDATE6: Jo Nova suggests it is a form of intimidation
UPDATE7: Josh weighs in with two cartoons
UPDATE8: Greg Laden on Scienceblogs accuses Tallbloke of being a “criminal” – a claim really over the line and over the top. Clearly this is outside of the Code of Conduct for Scienceblogs.com (contact page here) Of course, after reading the rant of hate this man has for anyone not like him, especially Americans in some states, I suppose it’s just another day for him. Update: I sent off a complaint to the editors of Sb about this, and it appears that Laden has been asked to remove the libelous language, though the post remains as does his hateful attitude in comments.
UPDATE9: Lord Monckton to pursue fraud charges against Climategate scientists: Will present to police the case for ‘numerous specific instances of scientific or economic fraud’
Monckton: ‘I have begun drafting a memorandum for prosecuting authorities…to establish…the existence of numerous specific instances of scientific or economic fraud in relation to the official ‘global warming’ storyline…they will act, for that is what the law requires them to do’
Story at ClimateDepot here
UPDATE10: More than a couple of people have asked me about computer security in the last couple of days, especially after the Tallbloke raid incident.
I’m offering a simple security solution for those that want to protect their files: a USB flash drive with built in hardware security. See it here
UPDATE11: A copy of the search warrant can be seen at Climate Audit
UPDATE 12: The BBC’s Richard Black is silent, probably because he can’t “… find an angle that will allow the BBC to maintain the usual warmists good, sceptics bad holding pattern”.
UPDATE13: Tallbloke apparently is going to take legal action against ScienceBlogs and blogger Greg Laden over his libelous article (now modified to not be libelous) accusing Tallbloke of being involved in criminal activity, and is soliciting barristers. Laden says on his blog in comments:
“I think he’s a criminal for being a climate denialist. Sue me. “
Looks like Greg Laden will get his wish.
UPDATE14: Rep Markey has an “off with their heads” moment, Jeff Id explains how the connections being made are preposterous.
UPDATE15: Tallbloke has decided to take the libel issue with Laden to tort. A letter from his attorney is posted.
UPDATE16: Planetsave makes another libel with the headline: “Criminal Who Manufactured Climategate Caught?” The clueless writer, Zachary Shahan, is about as far away from understanding journalism as anyone I’ve seen. He’s in for a nasty surprise as Tallbloke has added him to the tort list.
UPDATE18: UK cartoonist “Fenbeagle” has done up a Star Wars parody in the vein of The Empire Strikes Back. Mike Mann, Phil Jones, Jawas, and a Wookie are featured.
UPDATE19: Tom Nelson points out that Laden seems to have caved to impending legal action: Warmist Greg Laden: Did I say that tallbloke is a criminal? I meant he’s not a criminal. Details here
UPDATE20: Tallbloke reflects on the solstice and says that questions are starting to be asked in the UK.
UPDATE21: Tallbloke reports that:
In a sudden new development, your correspondent has learned that Norfolk Constabulary have decided that climategate is too big for them to handle. According to an un-named source, they intend to hand over the inquiry to another force.
This follows on the heels of a ‘request for a contact’ at Norfolk Constabulary by Lord Christopher Monckton in connection with his intention to have the police investigate revelations in the ‘climategate’ emails placed in the public domain.
UPDATE22: Donna LeFramboise writes in the Financial Post:
This is all rather chilling. It appears that being the proprietor of a blog in which strangers leave links pointing to material on third-party websites now exposes one to being raided by the police.
UPDATE23: The BBC finally gets around to covering the seizure episode almost a week later, unsurprisingly, the very biased Richard Black isn’t the reporter.
“the National Domestic Extremism and Terrorism unit”.
Playing with the big boys now.
Everyone her must be aware that NDETU will monitor this blog – amongst hundreds of others – and that they are not short of funds to do so?
The threat of legal action (and all the public disclosure that may have created) really does seem to put have put the cat in amongst the pigeons. Extremely well done to everyone involved.
Sorry, missed Adrian Kerton’s post at 10:36 am
NOW ON THE CASE:
Jerky says:
December 19, 2011 at 11:33 am
>JPeden says:
>Unsurprisingly, your post is irrelevant to the issue except insofar as confirming your own Religious >belief in a bunch of Climate Jabberwocky which hasn’t made a successful prediction about reality >yet but still continues right on with its usual “methods”. Congratulations on another “success”!
You mean predictions like plant hardiness zones moving Northward across the United States during the last 30 years? Or the lengthening/earlier arrivals of first/last frosts? Or the increase in number of extreme rainfall evens, as expected from the basic Clausius-Clapeyron relation?
Oh right, all those predictions DID come true. But I’m sure you knew that, since you obviously are familiar with all the literature, correct ?
Well, Jerky, even accepting the dubious reliability of your claims, yes, I’m familiar with the 100% failure rate of CO2 = CAGW’s relevant predictions. But you are most obviously either not familiar with them or simply don’t care about what they mean about your hallowed Religion’s “science”.
Or else perhaps it’s only that your own brain’s “Jerky” is becoming more hardy by becoming still more dried out or even petrified by the increased desperation of your “faith”?
I wish Tallbloke all the best. He never asked to find himself in the situation where his house is raided by the police, lots of other stuff happens in quite a short period of time and then he finds out the NDETU are getting involved and will no boubt be looking up his digital arsehole in the new year. I bet this is not the Christmas he expected.
I feel for his family; the violations which have been endured – men in uniform poking about your house. Over what – a climate blog and a link on it?
Why would climate data have anything to do with national security,domestic extremism or terrorism ?
Let’s not forget that this whole mess began with a concerted, deceitful, pretextual conspiracy to obstruct and wrongfully deny lawful FOIA requests made by taxpaying citizens seeking DATA to REPLICATE the findings of various PUBLICLY FUNDED scientists published in PEER REVIEWED journals which had failed to enforce their own DATA ARCHIVING requirements upon the published authors.
FOIA, outraged that the world’s poorest inhabitants will be further immiserated by future climate policies, took matters into his/her own hands to expose the bias of the most influential climate scientists and their relentless contempt for anyone who uttered the unforgiveable words- “PROVE IT”. The release of emails by FOIA is virtuous civil disobedience, and should be judged as such. The recruitment of governmental power in furtherance of a conspiracy against scientific transparency, dissent and the free exchange of information should be a cause of deep concern to anyone who values liberty.
I have to say that I find it incredible that so many people who obviously have a keen interest in the facts behind the science of climatology (or other more correct terminology… sorry, I’m no expert) can be so reckless and/or cavalier with comments relating to the seizure of your computers. “Voted best science blog”?
I referred to them elsewhere as “armchair generals” but I think that I need to amend that rather pejorative term to “armchair sergeants”… they’d never be promoted any further!
A simple Google search (please… NOT Wikipedia…!) would have revealed that “NDET” is an acronym for “National Domestic Extremism TEAM”, the “T” doesn’t signify “Terrorism”. I was waiting for one of the informed participants to correct the ongoing mistake but eventually got too depressed and fed up to wait any longer. See http://www.acpo.police.uk/NationalPolicing/NCDENationalCoordinatorDomesticExtremism/NationalDomesticExtremismTeamNDET.aspx – if the Blog software allows the link. I don’t think that there’s even such a thing as the “NDETU” so why is that term being used so much?
And KevinUK – “You have every right to know what their ‘probable cause’ is and why the search warrant was issued i..e to know what is the crime that has been committed which has led to your property being seized as evidence. ” I hope that the use of quotation marks is your way of acknowledging that you got the phrase from watching too many US television shows, because being from the UK (as implied by your tag) you should know better. Please, at least do some basic research before foaming at the mouth. That phrase means nothing in English Law or in Scots Law, and as you are so certain, perhaps you will post a reference to the specific legislation or other legal provision underpinning your fervent belief? Or, you could just wait until Tallbloke’s solicitors fulfill their instructions and revert to him with the response from Norfolk Constabulary?
Sigh. But I will remain interested in the issue, despite the tedium from certain types of post, because the issue is too important.
William Old says:
December 21, 2011 at 3:31 pm
——————————————-
I got the abbreviation “NDETU” from Tallbloke’s own blog:
“National Domestic Extremism and Terrorism unit”,
For the sake of clarity, with which you seem to have a problem, that means I essentially quoted Tallbloke, so your pathetic comment means nothing, OK?.
Stephen Wilde says:
December 21, 2011 at 3:11 pm
“Why would climate data have anything to do with national security,domestic extremism or terrorism ?”
That I think I can answer.
If you follow the logic applied by the “warmistas” it seems to be as follows;
-We are getting closer to a “Tipping point”. (Yes, many actually believe so)
-When we cross it, the world goes under, we are all fried. (Yes, they believe so)
-That a nation is fried, is a threat to the nation. (If it was true, sure)
-A threat to a nation has to do with national security.
-Pentagon is put on the case, since it is a threat to the nation.
-Anyone disturbing the actions to counteract this threat, is a national security matter.
Now, whether the people involved here really believe in this, I am not so sure. But when dicussing this with my colleguaes at work, I can tell you that many otherwise very intelligent people really believe this story.
So The Team have been very successful to spread this scare via the media, at least here in Norway. (There is no opposing views presented, not one climategate story in the news)
Just look at what that Ed Markey said, and you realise that there are people that actually believe in this. People in powerful positions.Or at least gives the impression that they do.
And therefore, if you really do believe in it, logically speaking, the world must stop pumping out CO2, right?
And this is why we were in such a dangerous situation before Copenhagen. If the politicians had signed in Copenhagen, the world as you know it, would have ended.
But not because any tipping point. It would have been quite the opposite; Because societies would eventually stop working under the control of the UN. Famines, people freezing to death, no transportation of food, no powerplants, no cars, nothing.
You may laugh at what I say, but believe me, It doesnt take much to create such a situation, and when it happens, then extremists seize power….. Dont forget that Pol Pot got his education at Sorbonne.
So in my opinion, FOIA did the world a great favour, and will be thanked for it in the history-books. And I understand why many on the “opposite” side, like Ed Markey, is angry.
Here is one powerful man who lead the way;
http://www.scotsman.com/news/brown_fifty_days_to_save_the_world_1_779582
I’ve just left the following on TB’s site:-
In every social and scientific maelstrom such as ‘climate science’ in its present state, there emerges a catalyst around which the storm is slowly settled. Oft times that catalyst is an unassuming person who sees himself as being on the periphery of the storm but who suddenly finds himself flung into the turbulent eye through no action of his own.
The depositing of the link to the FOIA2011.zip file onto your blog was nothing to do with you. But you were chosen. Why? Probably because of your reputation as a solidly dependable and honest man. This subsequent Police action has served to drive home to everyone that true scientific endeavour has been totally subverted and that any questioning of this subversion now has official bad consequences.
That is the fatal step too far for the advocates of the CAGW ‘theory’.
It is unfortunate that you have become, albeit unwittingly, the catalyst in this storm; however you are aware of the international support which you have. You are now the rallying point for all who question the supposedly ‘settled science’ about our planet’s climate. That so many around the world now know about you and are actively supporting you should strengthen your resolve. Your responses so far have been measured and appropriate which is the direct opposite of what we could expect from the CAGW proponents.
All we, your supporters, can do is to cheer from the side-lines for you. Rest assured that the crowd numbers many thousands!
To you and your partner, a very happy Christmas and, I am sure, a very, very great New Year; always remember, although we might not be there with you, you are not alone.
JPeden did not try to refute Jerky’s alternate explanations, instead goes straight to insult and name calling, pathetic and childish.
Well among normal people the climate hoax has nothing to do with national security or terrorism. However, within the twisted minds of the hoaxsters and their sycophants they are one and the same. For this scenario to be plausible (i.e., that ClimateGate has been bumped up to National Security status) it would require someone, somewhere to officially make that case, issue written directives, and be prepared to take massive heat later when the bean counters tally up the immensely added cost to the investigation. Politically and financially it is a loser. For one thing it would signal that the greens finally have de facto control of all facets of government, including the national security apparatus, and are brazen enough to use it for self-preservation even in a high profile case. Not a very plausible scenario in my mind. But these are crazy times indeed.
I had some other speculation above here and here. Since you ask, here is some more quick speculation …
Accidental Classified Exposure :: Perhaps there was some black research taking place at UEA (or some nearby institution) somewhere completely disconnected from CRU and Phil Jones. Perhaps some of these folks were just stupid enough to be using the same servers or FTP or email system at one time or another. This would certainly lead to anxiety over the contents of the 200K+ emails that lay in wait.
Post-ClimateGate Developments that we are NOT aware of :: With all the emails out there since November 2009, there has probably been a huge increase in citizen correspondence to UEA and other email addresses and URLs found in the emails. Probably people writing everything from thoughtful Scientific challenges to threatening letters (stupid!) from every corner of the world. So all it would take is one terrorist threat from some idiot to drag in the national security apparatus in our post 9/11 world.
International Agency Protocol :: Since servers in Russia have been used in both ClimateGate events, it is not difficult to believe that there is some joint investigation ongoing. I cannot imagine such contact between the countries’ agencies being allowed to proceed at a local constable level, so I would infer that some ‘feds’ would be over-seeing or running the show entirely. The ‘show’ being the investigation into who ‘FOIA’ actually is. Other possibilities here include suspicion of international espionage (Russia, China, etc), or bringing in the ‘feds’ to simply plug the holes and harden the system against further so-called hacking.
Bureaucratic Diplomacy :: Since the god-forsaken United Nations is a part of this thing, it is easy for me to believe that some pinhead from the UN got their panties in a bunch and cried to the UK government. Or they could simply approach Merkel or Sarkozy or any number of them, who in turn place pressure on Downing Street resulting in ‘feds’ showing up.
As mentioned in an earlier post, there are almost an infinite number of scenarios here since we are working with no real information. Almost anything that one dreams up can easily be the correct answer or be spectacularly incorrect. Furthermore, many of us are not familiar with the current internal protocols in the UK (or even our own countries!). For example, in the USA it would be extremely rare for Langley or Never Say Anything (or similar) to be involved in a case on USA soil in any capacity. We know that pretty much for sure. However, we haven’t a clue how the FBI actually interfaces with the national security apparatus on a case like this, so we find ourselves right back at square one anyway: knowing absolutely nothing.
I saw at Tallbloke’s blog that you asked about his router. It is a good question because any rolling logs on there must be stale by now. Please see what I wrote above in those two posts a few days ago (similar to what someone wrote at TB’s today). In a nutshell, it is possible that they now know the MAC addresses for all his equipment that was allowed on his router, including iPhones or any smartphones, iPads and definitely the laptops they took. This is like a cross between a fingerprint and a phone number. It can place you at a specific scene if some device at that scene recorded one of his MAC addresses, for example when you use the internet in a hospital or school or airport or cafe. We’re talking Wi-Fi here, not exactly like cellular roaming, but a similar concept. Perhaps they figured out where the initial FOIA post originated from (through ISP logs) and simply want to rule Tallbloke in or out as the whistleblower by checking his (and anyone else we have not heard about) MAC address against what the police know from the original upload scene. Of course this wild-assed guess just might be spectacularly wrong too!
William Old says:
December 21, 2011 at 3:31 pm
“I referred to them elsewhere as “armchair generals” but I think that I need to amend that rather pejorative term to “armchair sergeants”… they’d never be promoted any further!”
================
“An’ now the hugly bullets come peckin’ through the dust,
An’ no one wants to face ’em, but every beggar must;
So, like a man in irons which isn’t glad to go,
They moves ’em off by companies uncommon stiff an’ slow.
Of all ‘is five years’ schoolin’ they don’t remember much
Excep’ the not retreatin’, the step an’ keepin’ touch.
It looks like teachin’ wasted when they duck an’ spread an’ ‘op,
But if ‘e ‘adn’t learned ’em they’d be all about the shop!
An’ now it’s “‘Oo goes backward?” an’ now it’s “‘Oo comes on?”
And now it’s “Get the doolies,” an’ now the captain’s gone;
An’ now it’s bloody murder, but all the while they ‘ear
‘Is voice, the same as barrick drill, a-shepherdin’ the rear.
‘E’s just as sick as they are, ‘is ‘eart is like to split,
But ‘e works ’em, works ’em, works ’em till he feels ’em take the bit;
The rest is ‘oldin’ steady till the watchful bugles play,
An’ ‘e lifts ’em, lifts ’em, lifts ’em through the charge that wins the day!
The ‘eathen in ‘is blindness bows down to wood an’ stone;
‘E don’t obey no orders unless they is ‘is own;
The ‘eathen in ‘is blindness must end where ‘e began,
But the backbone of the Army is the non-commissioned man!”
–Rudyard Kipling–
(Excerpt from “The Eathan”)
Dude. I don’t know what you’re doing, but you’re not helping the cause.
REP:
Sorry I got your initials wrong.
By black booted thugs I was referring to Big “O” and Holder Co. and their big boy connections, not the operatives slaves who have to carry out the directives.
And knowing how Holder’s DOJ operates, I don’t think Horner is far off the mark. But I understand the snip, it attracts attention to the thought police hell hounds (bureaucrats and dept. heads). Big “O” Co is trying to put the boot on the necks of free speech.
Sammus says:
December 21, 2011 at 4:27 pm
JPeden did not try to refute Jerky’s alternate explanations, instead goes straight to insult and name calling, pathetic and childish.
That’s what you just did, Sammus! Or , to respond to you more equally, in words you might understand, “I know you are but what am I?”
Ok, Sammus, I realize that you have no abilities above that particular level of “argument”, since you apparently have no comprehension of the scientific fact, or of the meaning of the words that say, “Climate Science’s CO2 = CAGW ‘science’ has not produced even one relevant correct prediction yet.” Therefore, I sincerely apologize for taking such an unfair advantage of you and Jerky!
Roger’s interview is on the BBC iPlayer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b018j2x1/Look_East_East_21_12_2011/
BBC story inconsequential BBC “Norfolk” no one will see this.
Adrian Kerton says:
December 22, 2011 at 12:06 am
Roger’s interview is on the BBC iPlayer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b018j2x1/Look_East_East_21_12_2011/
_________________________________________
“Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only…”
BBC East is the regional affiliate of the BBC
Perhaps things might be simpler than they seem. Here’s my speculation:
On release of the Climategate 2 emails the Norfolk Police had to do something. They made a list of the blogs on which foia had put the link to the emails. As three were hosted by WordPress they needed help from the US to get information about the link from WordPress. So Norfolk Police asked the British Home Secretary to use the UK/US Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) to ask the US Attorney General and Department of Justice for help in obtaining the information from WordPress.
The US Department of Justice then sent the Preservation of Records request to WordPress asking for the letter not to be disclosed. They may have sent similar requests to other blog hosts which haven’t disclosed the letter
The DOJ obtained the information about the email link from WordPress using the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. Apparently this doesn’t require a warrant, only for there to be reasonable grounds for the data requested to be relevant to the investigation. Under the MLAT the DOJ would have sent this information to the British Police.
The Norfolk Police have a local hi-tech crime unit but have most likely passed the investigation over to the Central e-crime unit of the Metropolitan Police in London which has more expertise and investigates nationally.
Not knowing what else to do, the British police decided to look at the computers of Tallbloke, who had simply had the link to the climategate emails posted on his blog by ‘foia’ and was the first to break the story.
Tallbloke is not a suspect and as his computers might contain ‘excluded material’ such as personal records and material used for journalism, the police therefore had to get a warrant from a judge, a magistrate not having the authority.
The British and US Governments should reflect on why, after WW2 and all the horrors of Nazi Germany, they agreed to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 19:
“Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.”
Sorry I haven’t been able to upload it to Youtube Windows media player keeps crashing out on me.
You might be able to download it with his app
http://www.infradead.org/get_iplayer/html/get_iplayer.html
Don’t know if it works outside the UK
What I find interesting about the article isn’t the article itself. At the bottom of the article is a section on Related Links.. Guess the links…
UEA
Climate Change E-Mail Inquiry (from their About Us page: The Review was called for and is being funded by the University of East Anglia, but its work and findings are wholly independent.) Sure..
Real Climate
Really balanced links.
FYI, The article I just referenced is the BBC article in the latest update about the incident..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-16294420
I neglected to mention that in my previous post…