Leaked document shows how Australian government planned to "sell the idea of a carbon dioxide tax to the public"

Professor Bob Carter writes:

A rather remarkable thing happened in Australia last week, which was the leaking of an internal government document issued to all Labor MPs (probably from the PM Gillard’s office) with 16 pages of suggestions as to how members of the government might best sell the idea of a carbon dioxide tax to the public. Many of the sound-bites and slogans suggested in the paper have already been in common currency for many months.

I attach a copy of the strategy paper, and also of a critique that I have made of it with Alan Moran and David Evans. These documents are now publicly accessible at Quadrant Online:  http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doomed-planet/2011/04/climate-change-facts.

[Document available as download  Government’s_brief_to_ALP_MPs (PDF) here on WUWT – Anthony]

It will surprise none of you that the strategy paper is filled with pragmatic political advice on how to run down the opposition and to spin the government’s policy in a favourable light. But what may (or may not!) surprise you is the simply breathtaking inaccuracy, dishonesty and partiality of the content – individually, we have heard all of these arguments before, deployed around the world. But seeing them gathered together in one place makes rather an impact regarding the utter intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the persons who are still pushing the global warming scare.

=============================================================

Climate facts Labor overlooked

by Bob Carter, Alan Moran & David Evans

Addressing the facts on climate change and energy

An internal strategy paper has been provided to Labor MPs for use in the promotion of the Government’s proposed new carbon dioxide tax.

We offer critiques of the two most substantive parts of that paper, namely “Carbon Price” and “Climate Impact on Australia”. The full text of the paper is posted (pdf) here…


An analysis of the strategy paper

Statements in bold italics are allegations (numbered by us) from the strategy paper; our responses are in ordinary typeface:


CARBON PRICE – TOP LINES

Key Facts


1a. We believe climate change is real ……..

Climate change is real and continuous. 20,000 years ago present day New York was under a kilometre of ice and lower sea levels meant that early Australians were able to walk to Tasmania; and just 300 years ago, during the “Little Ice Age”, the world was again significantly colder than today.

Australians who witnessed the 2009 Victorian bushfires or this year’s Queensland floods and cyclones need no reminder that hazardous climate events and change are real. That is not the issue.

The issue is that use of the term “climate change” here is code for “dangerous global warming caused by human carbon dioxide emissions”. The relevant facts are:

(i) that mild warming of a few tenths of a degree of warming occurred in the late 20th century, but that so far this century global temperature has not risen; and

(ii) that no direct evidence, as opposed to speculative computer projections, exists to demonstrate that the late 20th century warming was dominantly, or even measurably, caused by human-sourced carbon dioxide emissions.


1b. …… and taking action is the right thing to do.

The primary action that is needed should not be controversial.

It is to combat and adapt to hazardous climatic events and trends (whether natural or human-caused) as and when they happen. Of course, the required activities should be undertaken within a framework of careful cost:benefit analysis.

Spending billions of dollars on a penal carbon dioxide tax fails the cost:benefit test. Such a measure acts only to reduce Australia’s wealth, and therefore our capacity to address the real-world problems of natural climate change and hazard.


2. We want the top 1,000 biggest polluting companies to pay for each tonne of carbon (sic) pollution they produce.

Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant, but rather a natural and vital trace gas in Earth’s atmosphere, an environmental benefit without which our planetary ecosystems could not survive. Increasing carbon dioxide makes many plants grow faster and better, and helps to green the planet. If carbon dioxide were to drop to a third of current levels, most plant life on the planet, followed by animal life, would die.

As Ross Garnaut recognises, all businesses, including even the corner shop, are going to be paying for carbon dioxide emissions. In the long run, businesses must pass on the tax to their customers and ultimately the cost will fall on individual consumers.

A price on carbon dioxide will impose a deliberate financial penalty on all energy users. This will initially impact on the costs of all businesses, and energy-intensive industries in particular will lose international competitiveness.

The so-called “big polluters” are part of the bedrock of the Australian economy. Ultimately, any cost impost on them will either be passed on to consumers or will result in the disappearance of the activities, with accompanying direct and indirect employment.


3. A carbon price will provide incentives for the big polluters to reduce their carbon pollution.

All companies must pass on their costs to consumers, or go bankrupt. A price on carbon dioxide will encourage firms to reduce emissions, but their ability to do so is limited.

The owners of fossil fuelled electricity power stations that are unable to pass on the full cost of a carbon dioxide tax will see lower profits, and the stations with the highest emission levels will be forced to close prematurely. If investors expect the tax to be permanent, power stations with higher emissions will be replaced by power stations with lower emissions whose lower carbon dioxide taxes enable them to undercut the tax-enhanced cost of the established firms. The higher cost replacement generators will set a higher price for all electricity.

Alternatively, if investors lack confidence that the tax will be permanent, the new more expensive, lower emissions power stations may be perceived as too risky to attract investment. This will cause a progressive deterioration in the system’s ability to meet demand.


4. Australia is the worst per head carbon emitter in the developed world.

This statement is untrue.

According the latest UN Human Development Report, Australia emits 18 tonnes per capita of carbon dioxide. Other countries with high emissions include Luxemburg (24.5 tonnes), the US (19 tonnes), the UAE (32.8 tonnes), Qatar (56.2 tonnes), and Kuwait (31.2 tonnes).   Australia’s emissions are higher than those of many other countries largely because we have cheap coal, little hydro-electric potential, and have banned nuclear power.

Low energy costs allow Australia, unlike other developed countries, to export products like aluminium whose production incorporates high carbon dioxide emissions. Most other developed countries import these products, effectively our-sourcing their emissions but not reducing them.

Importantly, countries are not better or worse emitters. Countries’ levels of emissions depend on their geographical and industrial structure and their living standards rather than any policy decisions their governments may have taken on carbon dioxide emissions.


5. Other countries are taking action, even China and India. Australia must make a start or our economy will be left behind.

Although several European countries have created conditions that force or encourage electricity producers to invest heavily in wind/solar, these high cost sources of electricity comprise a greater share of total output in Australia than in most other countries. Compared to the share in Australia of 1.5 per cent, the US obtains 0.8 per cent from these sources, Japan 0.4 per cent, China 0.5 per cent and India 1.7 per cent (sources: ESAA, EIA, IEA).

Australia has a Mandatory Renewable Energy Tariff (MRET) which requires that 20% of electricity is to be generated by renewables by 2020. Because renewable sources such as wind and solar are uncompetitive, by 2020 MRET will impose a tax equivalent to $14 per tonne of carbon dioxide emitted. Though these subsidy measures have often been trumpeted as promoting new Australian technologies, none have materialised. Nor are they likely to do so in the future, but in any event Australia cannot be left behind technologically, because if any practical research breakthroughs occur these will become available in all countries

More broadly, any expectation of a global agreement on emissions reduction has collapsed with the failure of the Copenhagen and Cancun climate meetings, and the world’s largest emitters (USA and China) have made it crystal clear that they will not introduce carbon dioxide taxation or emissions trading. The Chicago Climate Exchange has collapsed, and though a dozen US states had previously committed to anti-carbon dioxide schemes some of those (e.g. New Hampshire and New Mexico) are now withdrawing from the schemes.

Contrary to assertions, neither China nor India is taking substantive action specifically to mitigate their carbon dioxide emission level. China has already surpassed the level of per capita emissions said to be necessary to stabilise atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide. In both countries, nuclear power and efficient coal-fired electricity generators are being embraced, but these choices are directed at energy supply efficiency not carbon dioxide emissions. Minister Combet has claimed that India has a form of carbon tax, but that “tax” is actually an environmental levy on coal mining at about $1 per tonne, which is similar to long standing levies faced by coal mining in Australia.

China and India together deliberately undermined the Copenhagen negotiations in 2009. Both countries refuse to commit to any quantified emissions reduction targets, other than that the carbon dioxide per dollar of GDP will progressively decline as their electricity generators are increasingly modernised and their economies develop. As in Australia, there are many voices in both countries rejecting theories of man-made global warming[1].


6. We will protect existing jobs while creating new clean energy jobs.

The whole point of a carbon dioxide tax is to force coal-fired power stations out of existence. No amount of subsidy will “protect” the jobs of the workers involved.

It has been shown that in Spain, 2.2 conventional jobs are destroyed for every new job created in the alternative energy industry, at a unit cost of about US$774,000/job. In a comparable UK study the figures were even worse, with the destruction of 3.7 conventional jobs for every 1 new job.


7. Every cent raised by the carbon (sic) price will go to households, protecting jobs in businesses in transition and investment in climate change programs. There will be generous assistance to households, families and pensioners (tax cuts are a live option).

As with any tax, the proceeds are returned to the community. One part of this, perhaps 20 per cent or so, is required to administer the program and is a deadweight loss. The rest is a redirection of funding to areas that the government considers to be more productive, or more politically supportive. The effect of this invariably leads to a loss of efficiency within the economy and to a slower growth rate.

It is also the case that introduction of a new tax generally results in unanticipated costs, which, because they are unknown, taxpayers cannot be compensated for.


CLIMATE IMPACT ON AUSTRALIA


8. We have to act now to avoid the devastating consequences of climate change.

Of itself carbon dioxide, even at concentrations tenfold those of the present, is not harmful to humans. Projections usually assume a doubling of emissions and associate this with an increase in global temperatures.

There is no “climate emergency”, and nor did devastating consequences result from the mild warming of the late 20th century. Global average temperature, which peaked in the strong El Nino year of 1998, still falls well within the bounds of natural climate variation. Current global temperatures are in no way unusually warm, or cold, in terms of Earth’s recent geological history.


9. If we don’t act then we will see more extreme weather events like bushfires and droughts, we will have more days of extreme heat, and we will see our coastline flooded as sea levels rise.

These alarmist statements are based exclusively on a naïve faith that computer models can make predictions about future climate states. That faith cannot be justified, as even the modelling practitioners themselves concede.

The computer models that have yielded the speculative projections quoted in the strategy paper are derived from organisations like CSIRO, which includes the following disclaimer at the front of all its computer modelling consultancy reports:

This report relates to climate change scenarios based on computer modelling. Models involve simplifications of the real processes that are not fully understood.

Accordingly, no responsibility will be accepted by CSIRO or the QLD government for the accuracy of forecasts or predictions inferred from this report or for any person’s interpretations, deductions, conclusions or actions in reliance on this report.


10. This [human-caused climate impact] will hurt Australia’s industries, jobs, our infrastructure and our way of life.

[This statement is fleshed out with a further page of unvalidated computer projections of a future that will be characterised by more extreme hot days, a higher bushfire risk, enhanced sea level rise, an increased frequency of drought and an increased, negative climate-event impact on tourist icons such as the Great Barrier Reef and the Victorian ski fields.]

All these claims are speculative, and the accuracy of the computer models involved can be judged from the following graph and its explanation.

Graph source

US government climate scientists started the global warming scare in 1988 when they provided this forecast to a committee hearing in the US Congress. The actual observed temperature that eventuated later has been superimposed on the model projections in red.

The three black prediction lines are for three scenarios:

A.  Carbon dioxide levels grow exponentially (top line, solid).

B.  Carbon dioxide levels grow linearly (middle line, dashed).

C.  Carbon dioxide emissions cut back so atmospheric CO2 stopped going up by 2000 (bottom line, dotted).

The carbon dioxide levels that occurred in reality were almost exactly those in scenario A, so it is the topmost line that is the relevant forecast.

Obviously the planet’s temperature (red line) hasn’t increased nearly as much as was forecast by the computer models. After the temperature peak in 1998 (a strong El Nino year), the temperature has levelled off and is now gently declining. The red overprinted temperature is only plotted up to the beginning of 2010, but after a temporary peak in 2010 (below the 1998 peak) temperature has again declined, and is now lower than at the beginning of 2010

The claims in the strategy paper that we have to stabilize carbon dioxide emissions immediately or dangerous warming will occur, with manifold dramatic environmental consequences, are based on faulty computer models that are unchanged in basic character from those that have proved to be inaccurate since 1988.


THE ALL IMPORTANT DATA

In the real world, over the last ten years, and despite a 5% increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide:

Global temperature has declined slightly (Liljegren, 2011)

Ocean heat content has declined slightly (Knox & Douglass, 2011); and

Global sea-level rise has remained stable, with no net acceleration (Houston & Dean, 2011)

In addition:

Tropical storm energy shows no upward trend, and is near its lowest since records began in 1977 (Maue, 2011);

The number of cyclones in northern Australia has declined since the 1970s (BOM, 2011); seven times as many extreme tropical storms traversed north Queensland and the GBR between 1600 and 1800 as occurred between 1800 and 2000 (Nott et al., 2007).

No evidence exists that current Australian climatic phenomena – including droughts, floods, storms, heat waves and snow storms – differ now in intensity or frequency from their historic natural patterns of strong annual and multi-decadal variability; and

Tourists continue to flock to a Great Barrier Reef that (outside of very local resort areas) remains in the same excellent natural health that Captain James Cook observed in 1770.


The headline-seeking, adverse environmental outcomes that are highlighted in the strategy paper are therefore as inaccurate and exaggerated as were Hansen’s 1988 temperature projections.

There is no global warming crisis, and model-based alarmist projections of the type that permeate the strategy paper are individually and severally unsuitable for use in public policy making.


 

Authors:

Bob Carter is a geologist and environmental scientist at James Cook University, and a Fellow of the Institute of Public Affairs (IPA).

Alan Moran is an economist who specialises in energy policy, and Director of Deregulation at the IPA.

David Evans is a consultant mathematician, engineer and computer modeller who occasionally consults with the Department of Climate Change on the forestry and agricultural model that they use for managing Australia’s greenhouse gas inventory.

 


 

References:

Australian Bureau of Meteorology (BOM), 2011. Tropical cyclone trends. http://www.bom.gov.au/cyclone/climatology/trends.shtml.

Houston, J.R. & Dean, R.G., 2011. Sea-Level Acceleration Based on U.S. Tide Gauges and Extensions of Previous Global-Gauge Analyses. Journal of Coastal Research, in press.

Knox, R.S. & Douglass, D.H., 2011. Recent energy balance of Earth. International Journal of Geosciences 1(3), in press.

Liljegren, Lucia, 2011 (Feb. 19). HadCrut January Anomaly: 0.194C. The Blackboard. http://rankexploits.com/musings/2011/hadcrut-january-anomaly-0-194c/.

Maue, R.N., 2011. Global Tropical Cyclone Activity. Global Tropical Cyclone ACE does not show an upward trend in communion with global temperatures. Global Tropical Cyclone Frequency and ACE remain near the lowest levels since 1977. http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/~maue/tropical/.

Nott, J., Haig, J., Neil, H. & Gillieson, D. 2007. Greater frequency variability of landfalling tropical cyclones at centennial compared to seasonal and decadal scales. Earth & Planetary Science Letters 255, 367-372.

0 0 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

62 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
April 3, 2011 6:34 pm

Sun Spot,
Al Gore is about as “capitalist” as Kim Jong Il. All the free market [“capitalism to Marxists] is, is the freedom to do as one wishes within the law, free of onerous government meddling and excessive regulation. The result is an explosion of prosperity. Please don’t conflate Big Government Gore with the free market. He’s in the game only for Al Gore.

April 3, 2011 6:50 pm

Smokey says:
April 3, 2011 at 6:34 pm
Al Gore is about as “capitalist” as Kim Jong Il. . .

LOL! Thanks, Smokey. Saved me the trouble of responding.
/Mr Lynn

peter_ga
April 3, 2011 7:37 pm

Considering that a document was given “confidentially” to all labor MP’s, the use of the word “leaked” is somewhat redundant.

Dr Reginald Lamington
April 3, 2011 7:38 pm

Funny… the Dr handle is a “working class” joke that has seemed to be lost here,
i have in fact worked manual jobs my entire life, and i am not a green.
( Lamington being a cheap cake )
But with,
Concern Troll
This is just another green useful idiot.
leftist media smear
“ambulance-chasing”
You, sir, are no working man. Please drop the pretensions.
It would appear that me and you are not that different after all then
I dont like Bob Brown or Christine Milne either
Peace

ayankinoz
April 3, 2011 8:35 pm

Peace to you, too, Doc, but Dr is pretentious when you haven’t earned the right to the title.
And lamington is indeed a dead give-away that you are being frivolous.
If you are alarmed at the prospect of a PM Abbott, then your research on the potential candidates has been sloppy and/or you rely on being spoon-fed by the media propagandists.
As for falling for Gillard’s scaremongering re: Abbott “cutting welfare” – fair go, mate – he’s right to point out that it beggars belief that in a country of a mere 22 million, there are 800,000 people receiving a disability pension. Heaps of people here rort the system – you know it and I know it. And I think it sounds like a very generous idea to offer relocation assistance to long-term unemployed under 50 who are willing to move to another city/town where there are plenty of jobs instead of sitting around doing nothing in a city where there are none. How is that a “welfare cut”? Sounds like a helping hand to get the able-bodied back to work.

Philip Shehan
April 3, 2011 11:35 pm

The problems with this analysis begin with:
“(i) that mild warming of a few tenths of a degree of warming occurred in the late 20th century, but that so far this century global temperature has not risen; and
(ii) that no direct evidence, as opposed to speculative computer projections, exists to demonstrate that the late 20th century warming was dominantly, or even measurably, caused by human-sourced carbon dioxide emissions.”
In response:
(i) The AGW signal did not appear above the noise until the 80’s. The increase in temperature since then is 0.7 C. A decade is too short a period to be meaningful in terms of a long term trend and any lack of warming arises from the fact that the AGW signal is superimposed on natural forcings.
(ii) It depends on what you mean by “direct” evidence. The models are not speculative. They are theoretical explanations for observed temperature changes. Models that exclude CO2 concentrations do not fit the data well. Models that exclude natural forcings do not fit the data well. Models which include natural and anthropogenic contributions fit the data very well. See Figures 1 and 2 and Table 1 in the article below.
http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2005/2005_Hansen_etal_1.pdf
Unsurprisingly Hansen’s models have improved since 1988.

P.G. Sharrow
April 4, 2011 12:07 am

Connected important people tell me that China is supposed to be the industrial giant that replaces the United States in the 21st century. Everyone else is supposed be colonies that sell raw materials and buy finished goods. Ask your self, who are your politicians work for? Maybe they are working for the New World Order. pg

P.G. Sharrow
April 4, 2011 12:07 am

Connected important people tell me that China is supposed to be the industrial giant that replaces the United States in the 21st century. Everyone else is supposed be colonies that sell raw materials and buy finished goods. Ask your self, who are your politicians working for? Maybe they are working for the New World Order. pg

Dr Reginald Lamington
April 4, 2011 10:57 am

ayankinoz says:
Peace to you, too, Doc, but Dr is pretentious when you haven’t earned the right to the title.
Lighten up there Bro no need to snap, this is Australia here….. we make fun of titles
ayankinoz says:
If you are alarmed at the prospect of a PM Abbott…
I did not say that at all( although i would be ), i said i did not want to be lumped in with him and other right wingers for a dissenting view on AGW.
ayankinoz says:
As for falling for Gillard’s scaremongering re: Abbott “cutting welfare” – fair go, mate – he’s right to point out that it beggars belief that in a country of a mere 22 million, there are 800,000 people receiving a disability pension.
I did not say that i got that information from Julia Gillard at all, i have my own mind. You just assumed ( what was that about poor research? )
I got my information from Tony Abbott’s comments in one of the many Liberal party newspapers same as you . ( im assuming now… sorry)
Maybe we could give the disabled bibles instead of pensions?
Miracle cure, no more welfare, back to surplus! Onya Tony!

philip andrew travers
April 5, 2011 2:43 am

As a working unpaid farmhand and disability pensioner,I am in some ways as close to Karl Marx’s Free Labourers as is possible today.There have been at times whilst the debate about AGW continues the facts of coal hoarding and releasing by Australian buyers of coal that were attempts to reduce the value of that coal as a selling price by Australian corporations,and, or based in Australia corps.A game that will occasionally occur no matter what commodity or level of manufactured item or Tertiary skill service provision.Those general views are entirely Marxist derived unthreatening to either Chinese interests or Australian interests,because the main supplier of distributed wealth,remains the Government sectors on receivals of any monies as a process involved in contract as a result of transshipment.When coal loader ships are held up by very bad weather this then becomes the evidence of why the Queensland Rail sale didn’t eventuate as the Queensland Government assumed it would.Waves became the market depressor in a number of ways.And as a Greenie of type, coal loading ships worry me,as do fuel delivering ships near the Barrier Reef.And Bob Brown was of the same mind as anyone could be about safe exports.The problem really there is, the Professor Carter’s of the world haven’t really got a say either.Because they would be drowned out also.The Marxist realities are useful if they lead to a better understanding of what is going on.I doubt there is Global Warming.I am convinced enough that a more honest assessment can be found elsewhere.I am also a opponent of the medical jab,more so when other countries medical professional bodies go about assessing realities somewhat differently to the egoist indoctrinated Univ. Graduates.And more so when there are developmental areas even within the inventiveness of medically trained Queenslanders.I do not accept that ,as a generality, our medical systems can be gratefully trusted.And then it goes to say ,maybe, Bob Brown himself.Who on another question re Israel claims some moral virtue re having a policy about Israel and Palestine.If this web address permits this whole response,I will be thankful.I find no reason for me to accept the windbag nostrums of accusation about people simply because they will not jump to your own windbagging. Lamington would have to be that. I do not have to accept either the ALP is a working persons party.To me it a jealous machine of people in the socialist mode of power and retaining power rather than for some sustainable and worthwhile and acceptable justice.I have been appalled on the attacks on Professor Carter.I am now starting to want to give Bob Brown a good bloody boot.This change in me,has come about by noticing the endless windbaggery rather than the option of appealing to me,by well presented argument,instead,I get, thinking I will act tribally.No! I am proud to be unaccepting of the AGW mentation.I am for better outcomes,so Australians get back to respecting each other.Understanding does not come about by asserting something about self or others expertise, and niggardly going about increasing the hot air of self,and those who readily agree.There are a lot of matters about mining that could assist the longer term acceptance that forests are both Cathedral[visit Cathedral Rocks National Park near Armidale for that] and wonder gratefully about the ancientness of this land whilst calling into the Ebor Falls!Please reduce the dickhead assessments here.They are abundant on the other side of the non existing debate.Down with Murdoch acolytes!Not a bad banner slogan.Hey!

Paul A Peterson
April 5, 2011 5:23 am

(Quote) Philip Shehan says:
April 3, 2011 at 11:35 pm
The problems with this analysis begin with:
“(i) that mild warming of a few tenths of a degree of warming occurred in the late 20th century, but that so far this century global temperature has not risen; and
(ii) that no direct evidence, as opposed to speculative computer projections, exists to demonstrate that the late 20th century warming was dominantly, or even measurably, caused by human-sourced carbon dioxide emissions.”
In response:
(i) The AGW signal did not appear above the noise until the 80’s. The increase in temperature since then is 0.7 C. A decade is too short a period to be meaningful in terms of a long term trend and any lack of warming arises from the fact that the AGW signal is superimposed on natural forcings.
(ii) It depends on what you mean by “direct” evidence. The models are not speculative. They are theoretical explanations for observed temperature changes. Models that exclude CO2 concentrations do not fit the data well. Models that exclude natural forcings do not fit the data well. Models which include natural and anthropogenic contributions fit the data very well. See Figures 1 and 2 and Table 1 in the article below.
http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2005/2005_Hansen_etal_1.pdf
Unsurprisingly Hansen’s models have improved since 1988. (end qoute)
Dear Philip:
Your response (i) is not accurate. The AGW single has NEVER been sepate from the noise, execpt as a religious excerise.
The tempature run up from about 1974 to 1998 is not exceptional and is nothing more than normal noise. It followed a long cooling period, was timely and consistant with other tempature run ups, and a continuation of the warming from the LIA. Nothing special there.
It became policitally convienent to ignore science and use this “too short” period as evidence of global warming. According to a RC post I read, the 1974 to 1998 does not even meet the IPPC’s standard of 30 years for a valid statical trend. (Not that they would ever put that together for me. They were trying to discredit the current trend of non-warming. It took only a little thought to see that they had clearly identified that the recent warming was not a statistically meaningful trend. They needed to have a 30 year trend which there is not. In order to fake a 30 year trend you have to add years to the beginning or end of the warming period. The added years are simply statistical deception.)
From my own prespective a 30 year tempature trend is not long enough to be proof of anything. There appears to be 30 to 60 year cycles in the tempature record. Any preiod of warming or cooling or stasis of 30 to 60 years should be recoginized as natural and it should take serious evidence to prove otherwise.
You seem to recoginize that the tempature increases from the LIA to present while interesting has nothing to do with CO2 increases. Use of that increase as evidence for CAGW is a red herring arguement by CAGW crowd.
Regarding (ii) you have a meaningless point. Yes the models may have got better. But the improvements have an insufficient track record to place any more trust in their results than the older modles. I have not seen any information that would indicate that the bias which infected and ruined the accuracy of the older modles have been removed from the newer ones. Indeed one of the biases seems to be the overstating of the effect of increased CO2 on the envoirment. For political and perhaps religious reasons that bias will not leave the models. After all men of faith are often completely blind to the inconsistancies in their religion.
Paul

Andy
April 5, 2011 7:06 am

Philip Shehan says:
April 3, 2011 at 11:35 pm
Philip,
You seem to put great faith in the models and their supposed accuracy. At the same time, you dismiss the last ten years of flatlined temperatures as not significant.
However, the fact that the models didn’t predict this flatlining surely invalidates these models. If these models are so accurate, why didn’t they predict this change in the trend?