This essay from Willis appeared on WUWT overnight Saturday while I slept. After reading it this morning, I decided to make it a sticky at the top of WUWT (I also added the open letter reference) because it says everything that needs to be said about the current state of affairs in climate science and the skeptic position. I ask readers not only to read it, but to disseminate it widely at other websites and forums. Hopefully, the right people will read this. Thanks for your consideration, and thank you, Willis.
UPDATE: I’ve made this essay available as a PDF here: Willis_Trenberth_WUWT_Essay suitable for printing and emailing. – Anthony
UPDATE2: Trenberth reacts: edits speech to fix copying, leaves “deniers”
Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
I would like to take as my text the following quote from the recent paper (PDF, 270k also on web here) by Dr. Kevin Trenberth:
Given that global warming is “unequivocal”, to quote the 2007 IPCC report, the null hypothesis should now be reversed, thereby placing the burden of proof on showing that there is no human influence [on the climate].
Figure 1. The game of Monopoly’s “Community Chest” card that was randomly drawn by Dr. Kevin Trenberth. Some guys are just lucky, I guess.
The “null hypothesis” in science is the condition that would result if what you are trying to establish is not true. For example, if your hypothesis is that air pressure affects plant growth rates, the null hypothesis is that air pressure has no effect on plant growth rates. Once you have both hypotheses, then you can see which hypothesis is supported by the evidence.
In climate science, the AGW hypothesis states that human GHG emissions significantly affect the climate. As such, the null hypothesis is that human GHG emissions do not significantly affect the climate, that the climate variations are the result of natural processes. This null hypothesis is what Doctor T wants to reverse.
As Steve McIntyre has often commented, with these folks you really have to keep your eye on the pea under the walnut shell. These folks seem to have sub-specialties in the “three-card monte” sub-species of science. Did you notice when the pea went from under one walnut shell to another in Dr. T’s quotation above? Take another look at it.
The first part of Dr. T’s statement is true. There is general scientific agreement that the globe has been warming, in fits and starts of course, for the last three centuries or so. And since it has been thusly warming for centuries, the obvious null hypothesis would have to be that the half-degree of warming we experienced in the 20th century was a continuation of some long-term ongoing natural trend.
But that’s not what Dr. Trenberth is doing here. Keep your eye on the pea. He has smoothly segued from the IPCC saying “global warming is ‘unequivocal'”, which is true, and stitched that idea so cleverly onto another idea, ‘and thus humans affect the climate’, that you can’t even see the seam.
The pea is already under the other walnut shell. He is implying that the IPCC says that scientists have “unequivocally” shown that humans are the cause of weather ills, and if I don’t take that as an article of faith, it’s my job to prove that we are not the cause of floods in Brisbane.
Now, lest you think that the IPCC actually did mean that ‘humans are the cause’ when they said (in his words) that ‘global warming was “unequivocal”‘, here’s their full statement from the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report Summary For Policymakers (2007) (PDF, 3.7 MB):
Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of increases in global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice, and rising global mean sea level (see Figure SPM-3).
Despite the vagueness of a lack of a timeframe, that is generally true, but it says nothing about humans being the cause. So he is totally misrepresenting the IPCC findings (which he helped write, remember, so it’s not a misunderstanding) to advance his argument. The IPCC said nothing like what he is implying.
Gotta love the style, though, simply proclaiming by imperial fiat that his side is the winner in one of the longest-running modern scientific debates. And his only proffered “evidence” for this claim? It is the unequivocal fact that Phil Jones and Michael Mann and Caspar Amman and Gene Wahl and the other good old boys of the IPCC all agree with him. That is to say, Dr. T’s justification for reversing the null hypothesis is that the IPCC report that Dr. T helped write agrees with Dr. T. That’s recursive enough to make Ouroboros weep in envy …
And the IPCC not only says it’s true, it’s “unequivocal”. Just plain truth wouldn’t be scientific enough for those guys, I guess. Instead, it is “unequivocal” truth. Here’s what “unequivocal” means (emphasis mine):
unequivocal: adjective: admitting of no doubt or misunderstanding; having only one meaning or interpretation and leading to only one conclusion (“Unequivocal evidence”)
Notice how well crafted Dr. T’s sentence is. After bringing in “global warming”, he introduces the word “unequivocal”, meaning we can only draw one conclusion. Then in the second half of the sentence, he falsely attaches that “unequivocal” certainty of conclusion to his own curious conclusion, that the normal rules of science should be reversed for the benefit of … … well, not to put too fine a point on it, he’s claiming that normal scientific rules should be reversed for the benefit of Dr. Kevin Trenberth and the IPCC and those he supports. Probably just a coincidence, though.
For Dr. Trenberth to call for the usual null hypothesis (which is that what we observe in nature is, you know, natural) to be reversed, citing as his evidence the IPCC statement that the earth is actually warming, is nonsense. However, it is not meaningless nonsense. It is pernicious, insidious, and dangerous nonsense. He wants us to spend billions of dollars based on this level of thinking, and he has cleverly conflated two ideas to push his agenda.
I understand that Dr. T has a scientific hypothesis. This hypothesis, generally called the “AGW hypothesis”, is that if greenhouse gases (GHGs) go up, the temperature must follow, and nothing else matters. The hypothesis is that the GHGs are the master thermostat for the globe, everything else just averages out in the long run, nothing could possibly affect the long-term climate but GHGs, nothing to see here, folks, move along. No other forcings, feedbacks, or hypotheses need apply. GHGs rule, OK?
Which is an interesting hypothesis, but it is woefully short of either theoretical or observational support. In part, of course, this is because the AGW hypothesis provides almost nothing in the way of a statement or a prediction which can be falsified. This difficulty in falsification of the hypothesis, while perhaps attractive to the proponents of the hypothesis, inevitably implies a corresponding difficulty in verification or support of the hypothesis.
In addition, a number of arguably cogent and certainly feasible scientific objections have been raised against various parts of the hypothesis, from the nature and sign of the forcings considered and unconsidered, to the existence of natural thermostatic mechanisms.
Finally, to that we have to add the general failure of what few predictions have come from the teraflops of model churning in support of the AGW hypothesis. We haven’t seen any acceleration in sea level rise. We haven’t seen any climate refugees. The climate model Pinatubo prediction was way off the mark. The number and power of hurricanes hasn’t increased as predicted. And you remember the coral atolls and Bangladesh that you and the IPCC warned us about, Dr. T, the ones that were going to get washed away by the oncoming Thermageddon? Bangladesh and the atoll islands are both getting bigger, not smaller. We were promised a warming of two, maybe even three tenths of a degree per decade this century if we didn’t mend our evil carbon-loving ways, and so far we haven’t mended one thing, and we have seen … well … zero tenths of a degree for the first decade.
So to date, the evidentiary scorecard looks real bad for the AGW hypothesis. Might change tomorrow, I’m not saying the game’s over, that’s AGW nonsense that I’ll leave to Dr. T. I’m just saying that after a quarter century of having unlimited funding and teraflops of computer horsepower and hundreds of thousands of hours of grad students’ and scientists’ time and the full-throated support of the media and university departments dedicated to establishing the hypothesis, AGW supporters have not yet come up with much observational evidence to show for the time and money invested. Which should give you a clue as to why Dr. T is focused on the rules of the game. As the hoary lawyer’s axiom has it, if you can’t argue facts argue the law [the rules of the game], and if you can’t argue the law pound the table and loudly proclaim your innocence …
So now, taking both tacks at once in his paper, Dr. T. is both re-asserting his innocence and proposing that we re-write the rules of the whole game … I find myself cracking up laughing over my keyboard at the raw nerve of the man. If he and his ideas weren’t so dangerous, it would be truly funny.
Look, I’m sorry to be the one to break the bad news to you, Dr. T, but you can’t change the rules of scientific inquiry this late in the game. Here are the 2011 rules, which curiously are just like the 1811 rules.
First, you have to show that some aspect of the climate is historically anomalous or unusual. As far as I know, no one has done that, including you. So the game is in serious danger before it is even begun. If you can’t show me where the climate has gone off its natural rails, if you can’t point to where the climate is acting unusually or anomalously, then what good are your explanations as to why it supposedly went off the rails at some mystery location you can’t identify?
(And of course, this is exactly what Dr. T would gain by changing the rules, and may relate to his desire to change them. With so few examples to give to support his position, after a quarter century of searching for such evidence, it would certainly be tempting to try to change the rules … but I digress.)
But perhaps, Dr. T., perhaps you have found some such climate anomaly which cannot be explained as natural variation and you just haven’t made it public yet.
If you have evidence that the climate is acting anomalously, then Second, you have to show that the anomaly can be explained by human actions. And no, Dr. T., you can’t just wave your hands and say something like “Willis, the IPCC sez you have to prove that what generations of people called ‘natural’, actually is natural”. There’s an arcane technical scientific name for that, too. It’s called “cheating”, Dr. T., and is frowned on in the better circles of scientific inquiry …
(N.B. – pulling variables out of a tuned computer model and then proudly announcing that the model doesn’t work without the missing variables doesn’t mean you have established that humans affect the climate. It simply means that you tuned your computer model to reproduce the historical record using all the variables, and as an inevitable result, when using only part of those variables your model doesn’t do as well at reproducing the historical record. No points for that claim.)
Third, you have to defend your work, and not just from the softball questions of your specially selected peer reviewers who “know what to say” to get you published in scientific journals. In 2011, curiously, we’ve gone back to the customs of the 1800s, the public marketplace of ideas — except this time it’s an electronic marketplace of ideas, rather than people speaking from the dais and in the halls of the Royal Society in London. If you won’t stand up and publicly defend your work, it’s simple – you won’t be believed. And not just by me. Other scientists are watching, and considering, and evaluating.
This doesn’t mean you have to reply to every idiot with a half-baked objection and a tin-foil hat. It does mean that if you refuse to answer serious scientific questions, people will take note of that refusal. You must have noticed how such refusal to answer scientific questions totally destroyed the scientific credibility of the website RealClimate. Well, they’re your friends, so perhaps you didn’t notice, but if not, you should notice, here’s an example. (PDF, 147K) Running from serious scientific questions, as they make a practice of doing at RealClimate, makes you look weak whether you are or not.
And Always, you have to show your work. You have to archive your data. You have to reveal your computer algorithms. You have to expose everything that supports and sustains your claims to the brutal light of public inquiry, warts and all.
Dr. T., I fear you’ll have to get used to the sea change, this is not your father’s climate science. The bottom line is we’re no longer willing to trust you. You could publish in the Akashic Records and I wouldn’t believe what you said until I checked the figures myself. I’m sorry to say it, but by the actions of you and your colleagues, you have forfeited the public’s trust. You blew your credibility, Dr. T, and you have not yet rebuilt it.
And further actions like your current attempt to re-write the rules of science aren’t helping at all. Nor is trying to convince us that you look good with a coat of the finest English whitewash from the “investigations” into Climategate. Didn’t you guys notice the lesson of Watergate, that the coverup is more damaging than the original malfeasance?
Dr. T, you had a good run, you were feted and honored, but the day of reckoning up the cost has come and gone. Like some book said, you and the other un-indicted co-conspirators have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting. At this point, you have two choices — accept it and move on, or bitch about it. I strongly advise the former, but so far all I see is the latter.
You want to regain the trust of the public, for yourself and for climate science? It won’t be easy, but it can be done. Here’s my shortlist of recommendations for you and other mainstream climate scientists:
• Stop trying to sell the idea that the science is settled. Climate science is a new science, we don’t even have agreement on whether clouds warm or cool the planet, we don’t know if there are thermostatic interactions that tend to maintain some temperature in preference to others. Or as you wrote to Tom Wigley, Dr. T,
How come you do not agree with a statement that says we are no where close to knowing where energy is going or whether clouds are changing to make the planet brighter. We are not close to balancing the energy budget. The fact that we can not account for what is happening in the climate system makes any consideration of geoengineering quite hopeless as we will never be able to tell if it is successful or not! It is a travesty!
SOURCE: email 1255550975
Curious. You state strongly to your friend that we’re not close to knowing where the energy is going or to balancing the energy budget, yet you say in public that we know enough to take the most extraordinary step of reversing the null hypothesis … how does that work again?
At this point, there’s not much about climate science that is “unequivocal” except that the climate is always changing.
• Don’t try to change the rules of the game in mid-stream. It makes you look desperate, whether you are or not.
• Stop calling people “deniers”, my goodness, after multiple requests that’s just common courtesy and decency, where are your manners? It makes you look surly and uncivilized, whether you are or not.
• Stop avoiding public discussion and debate of your work. You are asking us to spend billions of dollars based on your conclusions. If you won’t bother to defend those conclusions, don’t bother us with them. Refusing to publicly defend your billion dollar claims make it look like you can’t defend them, whether you can or not.
• Stop secretly moving the pea under the walnut shells. You obviously think we are blind, you also clearly believe we wouldn’t remember that you said we have a poor understanding of the climate system. Disabuse yourself of the idea that you are dealing with fools or idiots, and do it immediately. As I have found to my cost, exposing my scientific claims to the cruel basilisk gaze of the internet is like playing chess with Deep Blue … individual processors have different abilities, but overall any faults in my ideas will certainly be exposed. Too many people looking at my ideas from too many sides for much to slip through. Trying anything but absolute honesty on the collective memory and wisdom of the internet makes you look like both a fool and con man, whether you are one or not.
• Write scientific papers that don’t center around words like “possibly” or “conceivably” or “might”. Yes, possibly all of the water molecules in my glass of water might be heading upwards at the same instant, and I could conceivably win the Mega-Ball lottery, and I might still play third base for the New York Yankees, but that is idle speculation that has no place in scientific inquiry. Give us facts, give us uncertainties, but spare us the stuff like “This raises the possibility that by 2050, this could lead to the total dissolution of all inter-atomic bonds …”. Yeah, I suppose it could. So what, should I buy a lottery ticket?
• Stop lauding the pathetic purveyors of failed prophecies. Perhaps you climate guys haven’t noticed, but Paul Ehrlich was not a visionary genius. He was a failure whose only exceptional talent is the making of apocalyptic forecasts that didn’t come true. In any business he would not have lasted one minute past the cratering collapse of his first ridiculous forecast of widespread food riots and worldwide deaths from global famine in the 1980s … but in academia, despite repeating his initial “We’re all gonna crash and burn, end of the world coming up soon, you betcha” prognostication method several more times with no corresponding crashing burning or ending, he’s still a professor at Stanford. Now that’s understandable under tenure rules, you can’t fire him for being a serially unsuccessful doomcaster. But he also appears to be one of your senior AGW thinkers and public representatives, which is totally incomprehensible to me.
His string of predicted global catastrophes that never came anywhere near true was only matched by the inimitable collapses of the prophecies of his wife Anne, and of his cohorts John Holdren and the late Stephen Schneider. I fear we’ll never see their like again, a fearsome foursome who between them never made one single prediction that actually came to pass. Stop using them as your spokesmodels, it doesn’t increase confidence in your claims.
• Enough with the scary scenarios, already. You’ve done the Chicken Little thing to death, give it a rest, it is sooo last century. It makes you look both out-of-date and hysterical whether you are or not.
• Speak out against scientific malfeasance whenever and wherever you see it. This is critical to the restoration of trust. I’m sick of watching climate scientists doing backflips to avoid saying to Lonnie Thompson “Hey, idiot, archive all of your data, you’re ruining all of our reputations!”. The overwhelming silence of mainstream AGW scientists on these matters is one of the (unfortunately numerous) reasons that the public doesn’t trust climate scientists, and justifiably so. You absolutely must clean up your own house to restore public trust, no one else can do it. Speak up. We can’t hear you.
• Stop re-asserting the innocence of you and your friends. It makes you all look guilty, whether you are or not … and since the CRU emails unequivocally favor the “guilty” possibility, it makes you look unapologetic as well as guilty. Whether you are or not.
• STOP HIDING THINGS!!! Give your most private data and your most top-secret computer codes directly to your worst enemies and see if they can poke holes in your ideas. If they can’t, then you’re home free. That is true science, not hiding your data and gaming the IPCC rules to your advantage.
• Admit the true uncertainties. The mis-treatment of uncertainty in the IPCC reports, and the underestimation of true uncertainty in climate science in general, is a scandal.
• Scrap the IPCC. It has run its race. Do you truly think that whatever comes out of the next IPCC report will make the slightest difference to the debate? You’ve had four IPCC reports in a row, each one more alarmist than the previous one. You’ve had every environmental organization shilling for you. You’ve had billions of dollars in support, Al Gore alone spent $300 million on advertising and advocacy. You’ve had 25 years to make your case, with huge resources and supercomputers and entire governments on your side, and you are still losing the public debate … after all of that, do you really think another IPCC report will change anything?
If it is another politically driven error-fest like the last one, I don’t think so. And what are the odds of it being an honest assessment of the science? Either way the next IPCC report won’t settle a single discussion, even if it is honest science. Again, Dr. T, you have only yourself and your friends to blame. You used the IPCC to flog bad science like the Hokeyschtick, your friends abused the IPCC to sneak in papers y’all favored and keep out papers you didn’t like, you didn’t check your references so stupid errors were proclaimed as gospel truth, it’s all a matter of record.
Do you truly think that after Climategate, and after the revelations of things like IPCC citations of WWF propaganda pieces as if they were solid science, and after Pachauri’s ludicrous claim that it was “voodoo science” to point out the Himalayan glacier errors, after all that do you think anyone with half a brain still believes the IPCC is some neutral arbiter of climate science whose ex-cathedra pronouncements can be relied upon?
Because if you do think people still believe that, you really should get out more. At this point people don’t trust the IPCC any more than they trust you and your friends. Another IPCC report will be roundly ignored by one side, and cited as inerrant gospel by the other side. How will that help anyone? Forget about the IPCC, it is a meaningless distraction, and get back to the science.
That’s my free advice, Dr. T., and I’m sure it’s worth every penny you paid for it. Look, I don’t think you’re a bad guy. Sadly for you, but fortunately for us, you got caught hanging out with the bad boys who had their hands in the cookie jar. And tragically for everyone, all of you were seduced by “noble cause corruption”. Hey, it’s nothing to be ashamed of, it’s happened to me too, you’re not the first guy to think that the nobility of your cause justified improper actions.
But as far as subsequently proclaiming your innocence and saying that you and your friends did nothing wrong? Sorry, Dr. T, the jury has already come in on that one, and they weren’t distracted by either the nobility of your cause, nor by the unequivocal fact that you and your friends were whitewashed as pure as the driven snow in the investigation done by your other friends … instead, they noted your emails saying things like:
In that regard I don’t think you can ignore it all, as Mike [Mann] suggests as one option, but the response should try to somehow label these guys a[s] lazy and incompetent and unable to do the huge amount of work it takes to construct such a database.
Indeed technology and data handling capabilities have evolved and not everything was saved. So my feeble suggestion is to indeed cast aspersions on their motives and throw in some counter rhetoric. Labeling them as lazy with nothing better to do seems like a good thing to do.
SOURCE: email 1177158252
Yeah, that’s the ticket, that’s how a real scientist defends his scientific claims …
w.

izen says:
January 18, 2011 at 8:10 am
Try:
http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/twimberley/EnviroPhilo/IceCoreRecords2.pdf
or,
http://www.up.ethz.ch/education/biogeochem_cycles/reading_list/sigman_nat_00.pdf
Which states: “The most viable hypotheses for the cause of glacial/interglacial CO2
change involve the extraction of carbon from the surface ocean by
biological production, either at low or high latitudes, necessarily
allied with changes in the marine calcium carbonate budget.”
So, the increase in CO2 may aid some in warming, but it clearly does not control the temperature of the Earth, IMO.
Willis:
As a complete nonentity, I have been watching and contributing to this debate for some months and have repeatedly ‘begged’ AGW proponents to clean up their act. So far, I have been forced to adopt one of two conclusions:
1) They do not understand that the methods they use are not scientific;
2) They are, knowingly, charlatans.
Writing as victim of AGW propaganda, I absolutely endorse every word of your essay – were it that I could express my feelings so well!
An excellent synopsis.
anzon
Izen:
Here you go:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TDdxO2FHJPs/SQ2wsVEvoxI/AAAAAAAAACs/DGM5SR0OWWQ/s1600-h/Sea-level_Ice-Temperatures_CO2_20ka_Graph.png
davidmhoffer, the 40% CO2 added contributes 50% of the warming of doubling because log (1.4)/log(2.0) is about a half. Adding the next 60% contributes the other half. Unfortunately adding that 60% will only take 50 years, so the warming is speeding up because the CO2 production rate acceleration is outpacing the log behavior.
izen says:
January 18, 2011 at 7:38 am
@-davidmhoffer says:
January 18, 2011 at 4:14 am
===============
A couple of problems with your arguments…
2) Because of the thermal inertia of the climate system the full effect of that 60% rise in energy from CO2 takes several decades to have its full effect, meanwhile human activity continues to produce more CO2…>>>
Ah yes, the mighty, the vaunted lag effect. That would be the one that Trenberth keeps whining he knows the energy to support its existence can’t be found anywhere, and it is a travesty it can’t be found? The circumstancial evidence lacks the required evidence, so must be bolstered by still more circumstancial evidence which can’t be found at all. Witch is clearly guilty, get the mob rounded up. If that’s the best you can do, then let’s wind her back a bit. We hit 340 ppm around 1985 so we’ve been at 50% or so of the effect of doubling for 30 years. 40% for about 50 years. Still nothing.
3)No, if we have increased CO2 levels by 40% with the burning of fossil fuel so far then to reach a doubling we need to emit the other 60%, or 1.25 times what we have released over the last century.>>>
Sigh. The other 60% is 1.5 times the 40% already released. But the 60% left to go to get to double will only have 2/3 the effect of the first 40%.
4)If we have released 40% in the last century then to double up again – assuming there is enough fossil fuel to do that – will require us to emit 4 times as much CO2 as we have so far.>>
“assuming there is enough fossil fuel to do that” THAT IS IN FACT THE POINT! The math regards starting point. 4 times “so far” would be less than 2 degrees total warming.
If that still seems unlikely, then reflect that we emitted over SEVEN times as much CO2 in 2000 as we did in 1950. So in the last 50 years we HAVE increased the rate of addition of CO2 to the atmosphere by more than 7 times the amount just fifty years ago>>>
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/co2_data_mlo.html#mlo_full
And yet the official record is roughly linear. Probably due to increased uptake like higher plant growth. OK, we’ll have to go to ten times.
As for your objection that the evidence is ‘merely’ circumstantial…. so is DNA evidence and while AGW may not have something quite THAT definitive yet the fingerprinting attribution research based on direct measurement of spectrum changes in the energy flux into and out of the biosphere are pretty robust and don’t admit of much doubt.>>>
AHA! GOTCHA! Not once did I say that CO2 has no effect. I said it is impossible for us to produce enough additional CO2 to raise temps significantly. Because CO2 is logarithmic. And that is what the data you refer to shows.
davidmhoffer said:
“Because CO2 is logarithmic…”
____
I know you mean the GH effects of CO2 are logarithmic, so let’s talk about that for a minute. Logarithmic effects do not mean that systems undergoing change via logarithmic effects cannot and do not rapidly change in a non-logarithimic way. The climate is one such example, for we know that in systems on the edge of chaos, very small changes can suddenly, unpredictably, yet in a quite deterministic way, change to new state. To understand this logarithmic effect on a system near the edge of chaos, one need only refer back to the example of the sandpile. When you pile grains of sand one at a time on a pile the frictional forces between those grains of sand increase in a very logarithmic fashion, steadily, but measureably building. At some point, just one additonal grain of sand leads to the collapse of the pile as a new equalibrium point is found whereby the fricitonal forces are in balance once more. If you continue to add more grains of sand, the forces between grains once more start to build in logarithmic way until the pile once more collapses and you strart all over again. The sandpile, with grains of sand being added, is a system existing on the edge of chaos. This is exactly analagous to the climate system with the additonal ppm of CO2 being added every year. Yes, the GH properties of CO2 concentrations may increase in a logarithmic fashion, but at some critical “tipping point” a threashold is crossed and the system will change into an entirely new mode. For a very technical (but very interesting) research paper on sandpiles and frictional forces, and the applications of their dynamics to many things in the natural world, I would highly recommend this:
http://jfi.uchicago.edu/~jaeger/group/JaegerGroupPapers/granular/Granular_RMP.pdf
TomFP says: January 18, 2011 at 3:45 am
”am flabbergasted that you should cast me either as a troll or as a fellow-traveller of HAS and JimD.”
I’m not sure I’d wish on anyone the fate of being a fellow traveller with me, but there is an important point in all this .
The fundamental criticism of the AGW conclusions of many climate scientists is that it is based on poor science and poor statistical methodology in particular.
Therefore those who would be critics need to make sure they are not falling into the same trap. Dr T has written rubbish about statistical testing (see http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/01/15/unequivocal-equivocation/#comment-576540) and because he conflagrated this with statements about “onus of proof” there have been a large body of skeptics (including our host) who think they have to protect the null hypothesis for the skeptics. Dr T’s just winding you up here IMHO and you are biting.
If you (aka the community of skeptics) want to maintain the high ground in this debate then don’t defend the indefensible (i.e. only nulls associated with “AGW is false” are allowed). You’ll end up like Richard S Courtney at January 18, 2011 at 12:47 am: (and I note that later 5:25 am you do rather sign up for this):
“The truth is this.
“There is one null hypothesis. There is only one null hypothesis. There can be only one null hypothesis.”
Which I thought sounds strangely reminiscent of the “One Ring to Rule Them All” in The Lord of the Rings, with all the same dark undertones.
If you want the skeptics augments against Dr T they are these:
“First we (the skeptics) agree that greater clarity about null hypotheses and testing them is fundamental, and this has been largely lacking in much of climate science. Let’s start with the IPPC’s “man made GHGs are causing the majority of the warming seen in the last century” and work on that. Getting some methodological discipline into the debate will cause real problems for the believers.
“Second you (Dr T) clearly don’t understand the role of the null in experimental method. You should read more if you want to participate in where the discipline of climate science is now going. In particular the question of onus of proof has nothing to do with selection of the null (apart from the fact that the person trying to do the proving gets to choose it) and science only puts the onus of proof on the one that’s doing the proving.”
Pamela Gray at January 18, 2011 at 6:17 am says much the same as I’ve just said above, but perhaps more briefly. At 6:17 am she suggests a null, and all I’d add is that to be interesting we need a threshold like 50%. It is common ground that humans are impacting global temperatures the interesting issue is: By how much?
R. Gates;
The sandpile, with grains of sand being added, is a system existing on the edge of chaos. This is exactly analagous to the climate system with the additonal ppm of CO2 being added every year. >>>>
Classic. I explain the penchant that the AGW proponents have for drawing attention away from the known physics of CO2 by talking about 2nd, 3rd and 4th order measurements instead, and what do I get in rebuttal? A pile of sand being proposed as exactly analagous to the climate system. Not even data from 2nd or 3rd order measurements, but a model based on no data at all, no measurements, and, by the way Mr. Gates, is not representative of a chaotic system of ANY sort in the first place.
Your precious tipping point has been repeatedly debunked, but let’s just stop and think for a moment, shall we? The witch named CO2 is accused of contributing an additional 3.7 w/m2 to the climate system. The physics requires that any temperature change will not, however, be uniform. The largest changes will occur in the coldest parts of the planet, in the coldest seasons, during the coldest parts of the day. The least changes will occur in the hottest parts of the planet, in the hottest seasons, at the hottest part of the day. What does the data say? Break down NASA/GISS by latitude and season and that is EXACTLY what happens. With the temperature increase distributed unevenly in that fashion, the arctic regions might have overnight lows of -45 instead of -55. But the equator’s temps rise by only hundredths of a degree. You can make all the analogies you want to a pile of sand, but the actual physics is that the earh’s temperature becomes more uniform, and hence LESS chaotic as it warms. The geological record agrees and shows that when the earth was at its warmest, jungles thrived in northern climes, yet the tropics were very little different than they are today.
A pile of sand. LOL
@H.R. says:
January 18, 2011 at 2:04 am
@izen and Martin
Thank you both for the links. I had an enjoyable evening reading up on Greenland, past and present. I’m still not convinced Greenland is warmer today than when the Vikings first settled. The frozen “farm under the sand” indicates that it’s still not quite as warm today. The presence of birch and willow forests then and their absence today is another indicator that we’re not quite up to the same temperature.
You said in your post of January 17, 2011 at 1:02 pm “I suppose that I’ll be inclined to believe that temperatures are warmer than during the MWP when farmers return to Greenland. Until then… nahhhh.”
I showed you the evidence that there are 51 farms in Greenland today. Instead of acknowledging that it could be warmer now than during the MWP based on your statement above, you’ve gone and shifted the goals posts and now claim that Greenland is colder today that during the MWP because there aren’t any birch and willow forests.
In fact the Qinngua valley some 40 km from Nanortalik town has forests of Willow and Birch. There the trees grow up to a height of several meters.
You also claim that a frozen farm buried under sand means that it is colder today in Greenland than during the MWP. Obviously farmland buried deep below that sand would still be frozen. It in no way proves that it is colder now than during the MWP.
Regards, Martin
@-glacierman
Thank you for the excellent links, especially –
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TDdxO2FHJPs/SQ2wsVEvoxI/AAAAAAAAACs/DGM5SR0OWWQ/s1600-h/Sea-level_Ice-Temperatures_CO2_20ka_Graph.png
Which shows as well the much greater variability of the N hemisphere temperatures. Most of the past peaks, Minoan and Roman warm periods for instance, seem to be mainly Northern effects.
Some time ago another poster provided this link :-
http://pages.science-skeptical.de/MWP/MedievalWarmPeriod.html
To show the evidence for the MWP from CO2science. You can have a fun version of the ma-jong tile matching game trying to find two records of the MWP where the peak dates match.
@-davidmhoffer says:
“AHA! GOTCHA! Not once did I say that CO2 has no effect.”
Gotta love somebody that types ‘aha! gotcha’ in capitals….
I know you didn’t claim that CO2 has NO effect, just that if you ignore all the lags and delays, the 2nd and 3rd order effects and the feedbacks CO2 has a small effect.
So as the actress said to the bishop, we aren’t arguing about whether(weather!), just how much. -grin-
With complex interaction systems, of which climate is clearly one, it is never possible to change just ONE thing.
Izen says:
“…if you ignore all the lags and delays, the 2nd and 3rd order effects and the feedbacks CO2 has a small effect.”
Argumentum ad ignorantium: “Since we don’t know all the lags and delays [or even if they matter], we will assume that CO2 is the culprit.”
If it weren’t for logical fallacies, the warmist believers wouldn’t have any argument at all.
And the null hypothesis remains standing.
Martin says:
January 18, 2011 at 2:59 pm (Edit)
@H.R. says:
January 18, 2011 at 2:04 am
@izen and Martin
I showed you the evidence that there are 51 farms in Greenland today. Instead of acknowledging that it could be warmer now than during the MWP based on your statement above, you’ve gone and shifted the goals posts and now claim that Greenland is colder today that during the MWP because there aren’t any birch and willow forests.
In fact the Qinngua valley some 40 km from Nanortalik town has forests of Willow and Birch. There the trees grow up to a height of several meters.
You also claim that a frozen farm buried under sand means that it is colder today in Greenland than during the MWP. Obviously farmland buried deep below that sand would still be frozen. It in no way proves that it is colder now than during the MWP.
Good. You have BEGUN to show that the Modern Warming period has BEGUN to become ALMOST as warm (the last few years, long-enough-to-grow-willow-trees-a-few-meters) today as it was before for CENTURIES during the Medieval Warming Period.
Clearly, we now need to copy the (non-man-made) Med Warming Period for about 150 years just to get a first copy of a “true” forest of the few acres of your newly-growing trees.
We now need to copy the (non-man-made) warming of the Med Warming Period for about 50-75 years to get equal numbers of acres of machine-farmed crops grown on modern Greenland to even duplicate the NUMBER of oxen-pulled wooden plows and dirt cow-barns and hand-mown hay used on past Greenland farm for over 400 years. 51 – just 51! – modern farms do NOT compare to hand-labor and seasonal production using arms, hands, and backs capable of feeding a population for centuries!
Then, only after Greenland has been as warm as today (or warmer!) for 300 years, can you legitimately claim that the Mod Warming Period is as hot as the Med Warming Period was.
Since you hold CAGW is the fault of the last 50 years of man-burned CO2, why, dear sir, was the Med Warming Period hotter than the Mod Warming Period over an interval of several centuries?
Why did the LIA exist in the first place? (Why did Mann need to eliminate the LIA and MedWP with his false Hockey Stick?)
Why are we recovering now from the LIA – over the past 450 years, if all warming can be blamed on CO2 release the past 50 years?
When will that natural recovery from the Mod Warming Period end? And what year will the Mod Warming Period peak? 2005? 2010? 2060? 2066? 2070?
“errr….are you actually aware who Richard Courtney is?”
yes. So what?
@-racookpe1978 says:
You claim that Greenland had a MWP that lasted for ‘CENTURIES’ that was warmer than today.
The only data that anybody has presented for temperatures in Greenland over time is this graph –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grtemp.png
Which clearly shows that the temperature in Greenland was LOWER than the present for the whole of the Viking occupation.
It also shows that the temperature in Greenland was slightly warmer than now for a brief period, BEFORE the vikings arrived in around 700AD. This peak is not synchronous with the MWP in other regions of the globe.
Perhaps you have other or better evidence for your assertion that the Greenland MWP was warmer than now for 300 years, but until you can present credible evidence such a claim is unsubstantiated.
@-Smokey says:
“Argumentum ad ignorantium: “Since we don’t know all the lags and delays [or even if they matter], we will assume that CO2 is the culprit.”
Our ignorance of 2nd order effects and feedbacks is not quite total.
The reduction in snow and ice cover in the N hemisphere when temperatures rise is a clear positive feedback as the ground and open water has a much lower albedo than snow and ice so more solar energy is absorbed raising temperatures further.
That occurs whether the rise in temp is caused by CO2 or anything else so it does not indicate anything about the cause of warming, just amplifies the effect of any such change.
Perhaps you have other or better evidence for your assertion that the Greenland MWP was warmer than now for 300 years, but until you can present credible evidence such a claim is unsubstantiated.
—…—…
Ah, so now you quote graphs from Wikipedia. ‘Tis better, more accurate perhaps, than the WWF propaganda handed to the IPCC, then reprinted into their AR reports, but … is that your source?
See, you use baldly edited Wikipedia assumptions and proxies from biased researchers to estimate temperatures 1000 years ago through 600 years ago.
I used the real world: We had no thermometers at that place at that time, so I used the real world evidence of when the Norse landed, how they ran their hand-drawn plows and cut their hay and milked their cows and fed their population and animals for several centuries.
Today, in today’s Modern Warming Period, they could not do that. (Yet – in a few years, your trees may grow larger – ready to be chopped (by hand) into the logs and beams the Vikings used for houses and barns. They certainly did not bring them across hundreds of miles of rough seas in an open-topped boat!
Do we know the actual temperature? No, not really. Do we know that it was – for several hundred years – warmer in coastal Greenland through that period than it is now?
Do I discount the propaganda (er, scholarly studies) put out by Big Government-paid Big Educators to further the Big Government’s themes? No, but I look at the results of studies funded by Big Government skeptically when their reports do not match my observations.
Yes. Absolutely. Over that span of time, the long term temperature in Greenland was as hot – if not hotter – for that long a time.
And your theoretical CAGW, funded by Big Government for Big Government to feed and strengthen Big Government with 1.3 trillion in taxes and promoted by Big Government by funding Big Education, did nothing to warm Greenland then, and did nothing to cool it between then through the LIA, and is not doing anything notable now (0.1 degrees in 50 years?) to warm it now.
Henry@izen
first of all, it seems you do not register that most data indicate that warming has been stalling in the past few decades. This is taking place whilst CO2 has been increasing at its fastest level in the past 100 years. CO2 is a natural gas like oxygen. Why not complain about oxygen getting less?
You also forget that if global warming is real, it must cause the temperature of the water in the oceans to rise. As a result, there must be more evaporation, and that causes more cloudcover. In its turn, this translates into cooling, due to more rain and the extra cloudcover deflecting more light from the sun.
This is why we now have been having a lot of weather (rain) in Austrialia, South Africa and Brazil. Note that here in Pretoria , I noticed a difference of up to 14 degrees C (cooler) on a day when the clouds move in. ( I measured this in Pretoria on 23/03/10 – this result can be taken as an average for here because of the position of the sun). On the equator this value will be much higher, so your snow loss will compare to nothing to that amount of heat being sent back into space because the W/m2 on the equator is so much higher than at the north pole. . ..
I thought my idea of seeing earth like a giant water cooling plant, keeping earth’s temperature more or less constant (within certain limits), must be pretty original. But it was here at WUWT that I stumbled on a paper from Willis who had also been there, done …. (well, God bless him for)…that, in a lot more detail …..look here:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/24/willis-publishes-his-thermostat-hypothesis-paper/
Is it not wonderful to realize that what we really call “the weather” is really God’s way of keeping the temperature on earth more or less constant?
Without this, we would all be melting in the heat or freezing in the cold…
Izen, if you want to convince me that CO2 plays a role in all of this you have to come up with measurements that show
1) how much radiative warming does CO2 cause per 0.01% increase in W/M2
2) how much radiative cooling does CO2 cause per 0.01% increase in W/M2
3) how much cooling does CO2 cause by taking part in the photo synthesis in W/m2
+ test methods please
What the IPCC did was to look at observed global warming and then at the increase in GHG’s from 1750. They then assigned a forcing value. So, it was assumed that we all knew for sure what was causing “the problem”.
But there is no problem. Plants need more warmth and more carbon dioxide so we will get better crops and more greenery. Pity global warming has stalled but we can still give them more carbon dioxide?
http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/more-carbon-dioxide-is-ok-ok
@-racookpe1978 says:
“Ah, so now you quote graphs from Wikipedia. ‘Tis better, more accurate perhaps, than the WWF propaganda handed to the IPCC, then reprinted into their AR reports, but … is that your source?”
No its not my source, it was poster by a skeptic earlier in the thread, I suspect they had not noticed that based as it is on Greenland ice-cores and archeological data it shows the temperatures in Greenland during the Viking occupation were lower than the present.
“We had no thermometers at that place at that time, so I used the real world evidence of when the Norse landed, how they ran their hand-drawn plows and cut their hay and milked their cows and fed their population and animals for several centuries. ”
The fact that such pastorial agriculture is not widely practiced in Greenland at present is due to the much cheaper beef and milk that can be imported from other sources and the unsustainability of rearing animals in that enviroment. I understand that sheep farming was tried a few years back, but the surface erosion and very slow rate of recovery of grasslands from grazing made it uneconomic and enviromentaly unviable.
“Today, in today’s Modern Warming Period, they could not do that. (Yet – in a few years, your trees may grow larger – ready to be chopped (by hand) into the logs and beams the Vikings used for houses and barns. They certainly did not bring them across hundreds of miles of rough seas in an open-topped boat! ”
Tree growth at such latitudes is VERY slow, it can take a century for a tree to gain a metre. There is archeological evidence that they DID import wood from Norway. And of course after they had cut down the trees there none grew large enough to build boats during their stay so they were trapped when the agricultural base failed. It is clear from their diet that they did not even have small boats for inshore hunting of large seals, an advantage the Inuit had with canoes.
“Do we know the actual temperature? No, not really. Do we know that it was – for several hundred years – warmer in coastal Greenland through that period than it is now?
….
Yes. Absolutely. Over that span of time, the long term temperature in Greenland was as hot – if not hotter – for that long a time. ”
You express doubts about the scientific research that indicates temperatures in Greenland were colder than at present and even hint it may be propaganda.
At least this accusation cannot be made against the evidence for your assertion that it was warmer for centuries.
Because there isn’t any
@-HenryP
You have made a number of posts inviting me to comment on your ideas about the role of CO2 in the climate which I have read and followed the links. I am sorry I have not replied so far, the questions you raise are complex, and on first reading it seemed that the full role of CO2 in converting energy in the form of IR photons into thermal energy of the bulk atmosphere was not taken into account.
But I am unsure that I have understood your points and this may be a missreading on my part.
I will work through your posts again when time permits and see if I can respond cogently!
I liked some of your essay but I think you could have made it a lot shorter, the main thing people havn’t grasped is that they have changed their point from global warming to climate change. Now, as our weather records dont go very far back in regards to our planet then how can they claim that climate change is nothing more than a normal weather cycle for our planet that goes further back than our records I think it is a convenient lie, that our leaders go with to extract more taxes from us without us being to be able to protest about it . Climate change is a normal thing,when will everyone wake up to this truth and just except it and stop going on about carbon footprints. The main thing they should be more worried about is an asteroid striking the earth , or maybe they think that all their windfarms could repel it with their vast wind power (it is all bollocks why cant every normal person see this)
@Martin says:
January 18, 2011 at 2:59 pm
@H.R. says:
January 18, 2011 at 2:04 am
@izen and Martin
“[…]I showed you the evidence that there are 51 farms in Greenland today. Instead of acknowledging that it could be warmer now than during the MWP based on your statement above, you’ve gone and shifted the goals posts and now claim that Greenland is colder today that during the MWP because there aren’t any birch and willow forests.[…]”
Yup. I read that (51 farms, cabbage, etc.) and found it quite interesting. I wasn’t shifting goalposts re the number farms. What I read about the Vikings in Greenland was that were more farms (300) over a wider area with a wider variety of agriculture than there is today. I assumed you knew that since you seemed quite knowledeable on the topic. Sorry about that.
What I didn’t know about was the birch and willow in the past. I didn’t run across that tidbit in your link. I’ll go look some more re forests now that you’ve pointed it out. The Viking settlement and disappearance is an interesting topic and I had quite a pleasant evening’s read, thanks to your and izen’s suggestions.
What I did find was the science isn’t settled re the Vikings in Greenland. There are several opposing views with decent evidence for the competing viewpoints regarding how well or poorly the Vikings lived, whether or not they were destroyed by or absorbed by the Thules, whether or not the settlers made it out and back to Iceland, whether or not they enriched or degraded the soil, and many more topics. I’ve got a lot more interesting reading ahead.
I like your arguments more than izen’s, which are based on the ice cores. I’m not 100% convinced yet that one can compare, value for value, the temperatures of the 80’s, 90’s, and 00’s with the temperatures of the Viking’s time as derived from the ice cores. However, arguments such as (exaggeration for effect), “We can grow bananas outdoors in Greenland today” vs. “The Vikings could only grow cabbage” are a bit more convincing to me, even though it’s impossible to compare actual temperatures.
Considering the amount of good science that demonstrates the absurd falseness of the AGW theory and how long it’s been available to see, Dr T. is long past being able to claim ‘innocence’. So, rather than having him refer to those who don’t accept the AGW theory as ‘deniers’, it’s time to refer to him and his AGW colleagues as ‘deceivers’.
To those who still think CO2 drives temperature, I suggest you read “Slaying the Sky Dragon” by Tim Ball (& co-authors), and also the extra book it links to. There is comprehensive and fundamental physical science described and explained that clearly (unequivocally) demonstrates the impossibility of the hypothesis.
robert says:
January 17, 2011 at 4:53 pm
Robert, I’m not “insinuating” that there has been no statistically significant warming in the past decade. I’m flat-out stating there has been no warming in the last 15 years, and I have given excellent mathematical authority for the statement.
You say “the confidence intervals indicate either it has warmed (which all datasets suggest with their mean values) that it has cooled (if we go to the absolute bottom of the confidence intervals)”. That’s exactly the point. We don’t know, it could be either warming or cooling. That’s what “no statistically significant trend” means.
And no, it is not difficult to establish a trend in a 15-year monthly dataset, that’s nonsense. It has happened many times in the 150 temperature record.
Finally, I’m not “hiding behind” statistics. I’m using these statistics for their intended purpose, which is determining whether a trend is statistically significant. I see that you don’t like the fact that the warming trend has ceased for over a decade, but that’s just ugly reality, so there’s no use in your continuing to hide from it …
w.
henry@Willis
Hi Willis, remember my results from Pretoria for the warming (of the dry winter months) during the past 37 years?
http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/assessment-of-global-warming-and-global-warming-caused-by-greenhouse-forcings-in-pretoria-south-africa
Means temps. o.o degrees C/decade (no change)
Max. temps. rising at a rate of 1.0 degrees C /decade
Min. temps. decreasing at a rate of 0.35 degreesC/ decade
I have now also looked at La Paz, Bolivia which apparently is also dry in winter
http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/La_Paz_Alto/06-1974/852010.htm
for the past 37 years
My finding here is :
Mean temps. going down at a rate of 0.25 degrees C/decade
Max. temps. increasing at a rate of 0.5 degrees C/decade
Minimum temps. decreasing at a rate of 0.35 degrees C/decade
Interesting?
What puzzles me of my own results is that minimum temps. are decreasing at a predictable global rate of 0.35 degrees C/decade (note the conditions when measured: – predominantly dry weather compared to dry weather in the past), whilst max. temps. are rising. I can accept external (non- A) influences causing the rise in maximum temperatures but what do you think is causing the dip in minimum temperatures?