Unequivocal Equivocation – an open letter to Dr. Trenberth

This essay from Willis appeared on WUWT overnight Saturday while I slept. After reading it this morning, I decided to make it a sticky at the top of WUWT (I also added the open letter reference) because it says everything that needs to be said about the current state of affairs in climate science and the skeptic position. I ask readers not only to read it, but to disseminate it widely at other websites and forums. Hopefully, the right people will read this. Thanks for your consideration, and thank you, Willis.

UPDATE: I’ve made this essay available as a PDF here: Willis_Trenberth_WUWT_Essay suitable for printing and emailing. – Anthony

UPDATE2: Trenberth reacts: edits speech to fix copying, leaves “deniers”


Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

I would like to take as my text the following quote from the recent paper (PDF, 270k also on web here) by Dr. Kevin Trenberth:

Given that global warming is “unequivocal”, to quote the 2007 IPCC report, the null hypothesis should now be reversed, thereby placing the burden of proof on showing that there is no human influence [on the climate].

Figure 1. The game of Monopoly’s “Community Chest” card that was randomly drawn by Dr. Kevin Trenberth. Some guys are just lucky, I guess.

The “null hypothesis” in science is the condition that would result if what you are trying to establish is not true. For example, if your hypothesis is that air pressure affects plant growth rates, the null hypothesis is that air pressure has no effect on plant growth rates. Once you have both hypotheses, then you can see which hypothesis is supported by the evidence.

In climate science, the AGW hypothesis states that human GHG emissions significantly affect the climate. As such, the null hypothesis is that human GHG emissions do not significantly affect the climate, that the climate variations are the result of natural processes. This null hypothesis is what Doctor T wants to reverse.

As Steve McIntyre has often commented, with these folks you really have to keep your eye on the pea under the walnut shell. These folks seem to have sub-specialties in the “three-card monte” sub-species of science. Did you notice when the pea went from under one walnut shell to another in Dr. T’s quotation above? Take another look at it.

The first part of Dr. T’s statement is true. There is general scientific agreement that the globe has been warming, in fits and starts of course, for the last three centuries or so. And since it has been thusly warming for centuries, the obvious null hypothesis would have to be that the half-degree of warming we experienced in the 20th century was a continuation of some long-term ongoing natural trend.

But that’s not what Dr. Trenberth is doing here. Keep your eye on the pea. He has smoothly segued from the IPCC saying “global warming is ‘unequivocal'”, which is true, and stitched that idea so cleverly onto another idea, ‘and thus humans affect the climate’, that you can’t even see the seam.

The pea is already under the other walnut shell. He is implying that the IPCC says that scientists have “unequivocally” shown that humans are the cause of weather ills, and if I don’t take that as an article of faith, it’s my job to prove that we are not the cause of floods in Brisbane.

Now, lest you think that the IPCC actually did mean that ‘humans are the cause’ when they said (in his words) that ‘global warming was “unequivocal”‘, here’s their full statement from the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report Summary For Policymakers (2007)  (PDF, 3.7 MB):

Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of increases in global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice, and rising global mean sea level (see Figure SPM-3).

Despite the vagueness of a lack of a timeframe, that is generally true, but it says nothing about humans being the cause. So he is totally misrepresenting the IPCC findings (which he helped write, remember, so it’s not a misunderstanding) to advance his argument. The IPCC said nothing like what he is implying.

Gotta love the style, though, simply proclaiming by imperial fiat that his side is the winner in one of the longest-running modern scientific debates. And his only proffered “evidence” for this claim? It is the unequivocal fact that Phil Jones and Michael Mann and Caspar Amman and Gene Wahl and the other good old boys of the IPCC all agree with him. That is to say, Dr. T’s justification for reversing the null hypothesis is that the IPCC report that Dr. T helped write agrees with Dr. T. That’s recursive enough to make Ouroboros weep in envy …

And the IPCC not only says it’s true, it’s “unequivocal”. Just plain truth wouldn’t be scientific enough for those guys, I guess. Instead, it is “unequivocal” truth. Here’s what “unequivocal” means (emphasis mine):

unequivocal: adjective:  admitting of no doubt or misunderstanding; having only one meaning or interpretation and leading to only one conclusion (“Unequivocal evidence”)

Notice how well crafted Dr. T’s sentence is. After bringing in “global warming”, he introduces the word “unequivocal”, meaning we can only draw one conclusion. Then in the second half of the sentence, he falsely attaches that “unequivocal” certainty of conclusion to his own curious conclusion, that the normal rules of science should be reversed for the benefit of … … well, not to put too fine a point on it, he’s claiming that normal scientific rules should be reversed for the benefit of Dr. Kevin Trenberth and the IPCC and those he supports. Probably just a coincidence, though.

For Dr. Trenberth to call for the usual null hypothesis (which is that what we observe in nature is, you know, natural) to be reversed, citing as his evidence the IPCC statement that the earth is actually warming, is nonsense. However, it is not meaningless nonsense. It is pernicious, insidious, and dangerous nonsense. He wants us to spend billions of dollars based on this level of thinking, and he has cleverly conflated two ideas to push his agenda.

I understand that Dr. T has a scientific hypothesis. This hypothesis, generally called the “AGW hypothesis”, is that if greenhouse gases (GHGs)  go up, the temperature must follow, and nothing else matters. The hypothesis is that the GHGs are the master thermostat for the globe, everything else just averages out in the long run, nothing could possibly affect the long-term climate but GHGs, nothing to see here, folks, move along. No other forcings, feedbacks, or hypotheses need apply. GHGs rule, OK?

Which is an interesting hypothesis, but it is woefully short of either theoretical or observational support. In part, of course, this is because the AGW hypothesis provides almost nothing in the way of a statement or a prediction which can be falsified. This difficulty in falsification of the hypothesis, while perhaps attractive to the proponents of the hypothesis, inevitably implies a corresponding difficulty in verification or support of the hypothesis.

In addition, a number of arguably cogent and certainly feasible scientific objections have been raised against various parts of the hypothesis, from the nature and sign of the forcings considered and unconsidered, to the existence of natural thermostatic mechanisms.

Finally, to that we have to add the general failure of what few predictions have come from the teraflops of model churning in support of the AGW hypothesis. We haven’t seen any acceleration in sea level rise. We haven’t seen any climate refugees. The climate model Pinatubo prediction was way off the mark. The number and power of hurricanes hasn’t increased as predicted. And you remember the coral atolls and Bangladesh that you and the IPCC warned us about, Dr. T, the ones that were going to get washed away by the oncoming Thermageddon? Bangladesh and the atoll islands are both getting bigger, not smaller. We were promised a warming of two, maybe even three tenths of a degree per decade this century if we didn’t mend our evil carbon-loving ways, and so far we haven’t mended one thing, and we have seen … well … zero tenths of a degree for the first decade.

So to date, the evidentiary scorecard looks real bad for the AGW hypothesis. Might change tomorrow, I’m not saying the game’s over, that’s AGW nonsense that I’ll leave to Dr. T. I’m just saying that after a quarter century of having unlimited funding and teraflops of computer horsepower and hundreds of thousands of hours of grad students’ and scientists’ time and the full-throated support of the media and university departments dedicated to establishing the hypothesis, AGW supporters have not yet come up with much observational evidence to show for the time and money invested. Which should give you a clue as to why Dr. T is focused on the rules of the game. As the hoary lawyer’s axiom has it, if you can’t argue facts argue the law [the rules of the game], and if you can’t argue the law pound the table and loudly proclaim your innocence …

So now, taking both tacks at once in his paper, Dr. T. is both re-asserting his innocence and proposing that we re-write the rules of the whole game … I find myself cracking up laughing over my keyboard at the raw nerve of the man. If he and his ideas weren’t so dangerous, it would be truly funny.

Look, I’m sorry to be the one to break the bad news to you, Dr. T, but you can’t change the rules of scientific inquiry this late in the game. Here are the 2011 rules, which curiously are just like the 1811 rules.

First, you have to show that some aspect of the climate is historically anomalous or unusual. As far as I know, no one has done that, including you. So the game is in serious danger before it is even begun. If you can’t show me where the climate has gone off its natural rails, if you can’t point to where the climate is acting unusually or anomalously, then what good are your explanations as to why it supposedly went off the rails at some mystery location you can’t identify?

(And of course, this is exactly what Dr. T would gain by changing the rules, and may relate to his desire to change them. With so few examples to give to support his position, after a quarter century of searching for such evidence, it would certainly be tempting to try to change the rules … but I digress.)

But perhaps, Dr. T., perhaps you have found some such climate anomaly which cannot be explained as natural variation and you just haven’t made it public yet.

If you have evidence that the climate is acting anomalously, then Second, you have to show that the anomaly can be explained by human actions. And no, Dr. T., you can’t just wave your hands and say something like “Willis, the IPCC sez you have to prove that what generations of people called ‘natural’, actually is natural”. There’s an arcane technical scientific name for that, too. It’s called “cheating”, Dr. T., and is frowned on in the better circles of scientific inquiry …

(N.B. – pulling variables out of a tuned computer model and then proudly announcing that the model doesn’t work without the missing variables doesn’t mean you have established that humans affect the climate. It simply means that you tuned your computer model to reproduce the historical record using all the variables, and as an inevitable result, when using only part of those variables your model doesn’t do as well at reproducing the historical record. No points for that claim.)

Third, you have to defend your work, and not just from the softball questions of your specially selected peer reviewers who “know what to say” to get you published in scientific journals. In 2011, curiously, we’ve gone back to the customs of the 1800s, the public marketplace of ideas — except this time it’s an electronic marketplace of ideas, rather than people speaking from the dais and in the halls of the Royal Society in London. If you won’t stand up and publicly defend your work, it’s simple – you won’t be believed. And not just by me. Other scientists are watching, and considering, and evaluating.

This doesn’t mean you have to reply to every idiot with a half-baked objection and a tin-foil hat. It does mean that if you refuse to answer serious scientific questions, people will take note of that refusal. You must have noticed how such refusal to answer scientific questions totally destroyed the scientific credibility of the website RealClimate. Well, they’re your friends, so perhaps you didn’t notice, but if not, you should notice, here’s an example. (PDF, 147K) Running from serious scientific questions, as they make a practice of doing at RealClimate, makes you look weak whether you are or not.

And Always, you have to show your work. You have to archive your data. You have to reveal your computer algorithms. You have to expose everything that supports and sustains your claims to the brutal light of public inquiry, warts and all.

Dr. T., I fear you’ll have to get used to the sea change, this is not your father’s climate science. The bottom line is we’re no longer willing to trust you. You could publish in the Akashic Records and I wouldn’t believe what you said until I checked the figures myself. I’m sorry to say it, but by the actions of you and your colleagues, you have forfeited the public’s trust. You blew your credibility, Dr. T, and you have not yet rebuilt it.

And further actions like your current attempt to re-write the rules of science aren’t helping at all. Nor is trying to convince us that you look good with a coat of the finest English whitewash from the “investigations” into Climategate. Didn’t you guys notice the lesson of Watergate, that the coverup is more damaging than the original malfeasance?

Dr. T, you had a good run, you were feted and honored, but the day of reckoning up the cost has come and gone. Like some book said, you and the other un-indicted co-conspirators have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting. At this point, you have two choices — accept it and move on, or bitch about it. I strongly advise the former, but so far all I see is the latter.

You want to regain the trust of the public, for yourself and for climate science? It won’t be easy, but it can be done. Here’s my shortlist of recommendations for you and other mainstream climate scientists:

•  Stop trying to sell the idea that the science is settled. Climate science is a new science, we don’t even have agreement on whether clouds warm or cool the planet, we don’t know if there are thermostatic interactions that tend to maintain some temperature in preference to others. Or as you wrote to Tom Wigley, Dr. T,

How come you do not agree with a statement that says we are no where close to knowing where energy is going or whether clouds are changing to make the planet brighter.  We are not close to balancing the energy budget.  The fact that we can not account for what is happening in the climate system makes any consideration of geoengineering quite hopeless as we will never be able to tell if it is successful or not!  It is a travesty!

SOURCE: email 1255550975

Curious. You state strongly to your friend that we’re not close to knowing where the energy is going or to balancing the energy budget, yet you say in public that we know enough to take the most extraordinary step of reversing the null hypothesis … how does that work again?

At this point, there’s not much about climate science that is “unequivocal” except that the climate is always changing.

•  Don’t try to change the rules of the game in mid-stream. It makes you look desperate, whether you are or not.

•  Stop calling people “deniers”, my goodness, after multiple requests that’s just common courtesy and decency, where are your manners? It makes you look surly and uncivilized, whether you are or not.

•  Stop avoiding public discussion and debate of your work. You are asking us to spend billions of dollars based on your conclusions. If you won’t bother to defend those conclusions, don’t bother us with them. Refusing to publicly defend your billion dollar claims make it look like you can’t defend them, whether you can or not.

•  Stop secretly moving the pea under the walnut shells. You obviously think we are blind, you also clearly believe we wouldn’t remember that you said we have a poor understanding of the climate system. Disabuse yourself of the idea that you are dealing with fools or idiots, and do it immediately. As I have found to my cost, exposing my scientific claims to the cruel basilisk gaze of the internet is like playing chess with Deep Blue … individual processors have different abilities, but overall any faults in my ideas will certainly be exposed. Too many people looking at my ideas from too many sides for much to slip through. Trying anything but absolute honesty on the collective memory and wisdom of the internet makes you look like both a fool and con man, whether you are one or not.

•  Write scientific papers that don’t center around words like “possibly” or “conceivably” or “might”. Yes, possibly all of the water molecules in my glass of water might be heading upwards at the same instant, and I could conceivably win the Mega-Ball lottery, and I might still play third base for the New York Yankees, but that is idle speculation that has no place in scientific inquiry. Give us facts, give us uncertainties, but spare us the stuff like “This raises the possibility that by 2050, this could lead to the total dissolution of all inter-atomic bonds …”. Yeah, I suppose it could. So what, should I buy a lottery ticket?

Stop lauding the pathetic purveyors of failed prophecies. Perhaps you climate guys haven’t noticed, but Paul Ehrlich was not a visionary genius. He was a failure whose only exceptional talent is the making of apocalyptic forecasts that didn’t come true. In any business he would not have lasted one minute past the cratering collapse of his first ridiculous forecast of widespread food riots and worldwide deaths from global famine in the 1980s … but in academia, despite repeating his initial “We’re all gonna crash and burn, end of the world coming up soon, you betcha” prognostication method several more times with no corresponding crashing burning or ending, he’s still a professor at Stanford. Now that’s understandable under tenure rules, you can’t fire him for being a serially unsuccessful doomcaster. But he also appears to be one of your senior AGW thinkers and public representatives, which is totally incomprehensible to me.

His string of predicted global catastrophes that never came anywhere near true was only matched by the inimitable collapses of the prophecies of his wife Anne, and of his cohorts John Holdren and the late Stephen Schneider. I fear we’ll never see their like again, a fearsome foursome who between them never made one single prediction that actually came to pass. Stop using them as your spokesmodels, it doesn’t increase confidence in your claims.

•  Enough with the scary scenarios, already. You’ve done the Chicken Little thing to death, give it a rest, it is sooo last century. It makes you look both out-of-date and hysterical whether you are or not.

•  Speak out against scientific malfeasance whenever and wherever you see it. This is critical to the restoration of trust. I’m sick of watching climate scientists doing backflips to avoid saying to Lonnie Thompson “Hey, idiot, archive all of your data, you’re ruining all of our reputations!”. The overwhelming silence of mainstream AGW scientists on these matters is one of the (unfortunately numerous) reasons that the public doesn’t trust climate scientists, and justifiably so. You absolutely must clean up your own house to restore public trust, no one else can do it. Speak up. We can’t hear you.

•  Stop re-asserting the innocence of you and your friends. It makes you all look guilty, whether you are or not … and since the CRU emails unequivocally favor the “guilty” possibility, it makes you look unapologetic as well as guilty. Whether you are or not.

•  STOP HIDING THINGS!!! Give your most private data and your most top-secret computer codes directly to your worst enemies and see if they can poke holes in your ideas. If they can’t, then you’re home free. That is true science, not hiding your data and gaming the IPCC rules to your advantage.

•  Admit the true uncertainties. The mis-treatment of uncertainty in the IPCC reports, and the underestimation of true uncertainty in climate science in general, is a scandal.

•  Scrap the IPCC. It has run its race. Do you truly think that whatever comes out of the next IPCC report will make the slightest difference to the debate? You’ve had four IPCC reports in a row, each one more alarmist than the previous one. You’ve had every environmental organization shilling for you. You’ve had billions of dollars in support, Al Gore alone spent $300 million on advertising and advocacy. You’ve had 25 years to make your case, with huge resources and supercomputers and entire governments on your side, and you are still losing the public debate … after all of that, do you really think another IPCC report will change anything?

If it is another politically driven error-fest like the last one, I don’t think so. And what are the odds of it being an honest assessment of the science? Either way the next IPCC report won’t settle a single discussion, even if it is honest science. Again, Dr. T, you have only yourself and your friends to blame. You used the IPCC to flog bad science like the Hokeyschtick, your friends abused the IPCC to sneak in papers y’all favored and keep out papers you didn’t like, you didn’t check your references so stupid errors were proclaimed as gospel truth, it’s all a matter of record.

Do you truly think that after Climategate, and after the revelations of things like IPCC citations of WWF propaganda pieces as if they were solid science, and after Pachauri’s ludicrous claim that it was “voodoo science” to point out the Himalayan glacier errors, after all that do you think anyone with half a brain still believes the IPCC is some neutral arbiter of climate science whose ex-cathedra pronouncements can be relied upon?

Because if you do think people still believe that, you really should get out more. At this point people don’t trust the IPCC any more than they trust you and your friends. Another IPCC report will be roundly ignored by one side, and cited as inerrant gospel by the other side. How will that help anyone? Forget about the IPCC, it is a meaningless distraction, and get back to the science.

That’s my free advice, Dr. T., and I’m sure it’s worth every penny you paid for it. Look, I don’t think you’re a bad guy. Sadly for you, but fortunately for us, you got caught hanging out with the bad boys who had their hands in the cookie jar. And tragically for everyone, all of you were seduced by “noble cause corruption”. Hey, it’s nothing to be ashamed of, it’s happened to me too, you’re not the first guy to think that the nobility of your cause justified improper actions.

But as far as subsequently proclaiming your innocence and saying that you and your friends did nothing wrong? Sorry, Dr. T, the jury has already come in on that one, and they weren’t distracted by either the nobility of your cause, nor by the unequivocal fact that you and your friends were whitewashed as pure as the driven snow in the investigation done by your other friends … instead, they noted your emails saying things like:

In that regard I don’t think you can ignore it all, as Mike [Mann] suggests as one option, but the response should try to somehow label these guys a[s] lazy and incompetent and unable to do the huge amount of work it takes to construct such a database.

Indeed technology and data handling capabilities have evolved and not everything was saved.  So my feeble suggestion is to indeed cast aspersions on their motives and throw in some counter rhetoric.  Labeling them as lazy with nothing better to do seems like a good thing to do.

SOURCE: email 1177158252

Yeah, that’s the ticket, that’s how a real scientist defends his scientific claims …

w.

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Kev-in-Uk
January 17, 2011 1:20 pm

I am struggling to understand why, as Buzz quotes – net feedback is generally assumed to be positive (I assume he means positive as in ‘warming’). This seems a direct error in terms of known (well at least pretty well demonstrated) facts that the earth has been much warmer AND with much higher CO2 levels AND has not ‘tipped over’. If nothing else, this must absolutely and without question demonstrate that total eventual NET feedback will always be negative. Any number of changes to the atmosphere through the various epochs, vulcanicity, meteor impacts, etc, etc – and even the obviously well documented ice ages show that the climate always ‘returns’ to a pre-existing condition. In other words, there is no evidence of either a ‘continual’ net positive or a ‘continual’ net negative feedback. If there was one – we wouldn’t be here – and thats the end of the argument.
Temporary + or – feedbacks there may well be – but they are temporary, and always ‘stopped’ and some stage and subsequently ‘reversed’.
Is earth returning to a warmer climate from a colder one – or are we midway between the two extremes – or are we going to return to a colder one from the warmer one? At this stage, I do not believe it possible to state accurately where we ‘are’ within the scale of the known extremes and more importantly which direction (thermally speaking) we are going in! But geological history shows us that we are no way going to reach a tipping point in any near timescale, and certainly not from normal anthropogenic origins (Ok,Ok – perhaps nuclear armageddon excepted!).
It just seems a rather futile argument in terms of using a ‘net positive’ feedback as an ultimate ‘deterrent’ when it is not demonstrable in the geological record – we are here, thus it never happened (either way – warmer or colder) QED!

stephan
January 17, 2011 1:23 pm

Solar cycle 24 web site….the situation with SSN and flux is looking very serious one wonders whether there will be a cycle at all. Looks more like a max of 30-40 SSN may occur. It also looks like svensmark was right with Cosmic ray counts a a high and Increased precipitation everywhere. Good luck warmers!

January 17, 2011 1:32 pm

For those interested… There’s a whole branch of geology based on sea level changes throughout geological history – sequence stratigraphy.
Here’s a photograph of an extremely sea level rise of approx. 50-100 metres recorded in Pliocene age rocks (approx. 3.5MYO) on the east coast of Trinidad. Immediately behind (and below and geologically older) the shallow marine sandstone on the left, lie coal bearing rocks (deposited near sea level) which are directly overlain by a fossilised beach deposit. The very dark coloured claystone to the right was deposited in an outer shelfal environment (approx. 50m-100m water depth?) You can see the very sharp lithological contact indicating a very rapid change in depositional environment – caused by a very rapid rise in sea level.
http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad34/Jimmy1960/8TopofPtaPaloma.jpg

JAE
January 17, 2011 1:39 pm

Buzz: You really do need to spend some time at the following site, and stop cherrypicking only those studies that support your views: http://co2science.org/
Check the subject index for a wealth of peer-reviewed articles on almost any climate-related topic of interest. All neatly summarized so you don’t have to do any serious reading.

Jim D
January 17, 2011 1:51 pm

If the null hypothesis is that humans have had no effect on global temperature, and it eventually is statistically falsified (IPCC is at 90% certainty currently), what would replace it. Clearly not its negative (humans had an an influence…), because that is proven true. Let’s put it this way.
The first null hypothesis might have been humans are not adding CO2 to the atmosphere, clearly easy to falsify. The second might be that despite this increase, temperature is not increasing as a result (the current one). A natural third null hypothesis would be that temperature is increasing, but there is no positive feedback. Some scientists (Lindzen, Spencer) hold this view. The onus remains with AGW to prove positive feedback.

izen
January 17, 2011 1:57 pm

@-HAS says:
January 17, 2011 at 12:11 pm
“I think that quite a lot of science is essentially descriptive, so experimental methods are not central to it, and probably don’t get taught. ”
A lot of scientific literature, at the observational and at the purely experimental end, is often almost entirely descriptive. Mention of hypothesis null or otherwise is rarely mentioned. I think the reason for this is that the writers assume that anyone reading a paper on say fungal growth metabolic pathways will share the underlying explanation of the mechanism that the research is investigating. At most there will be a sentence or two in the conclusions about how the work supports or modifies previous ideas about the mechanism in question.
Doing a rather rough experiment I used ‘null hypothesis’ and ‘fruit fly’ as search terms in pubmed, the bio-science database.
null hypothesis got about 4800 hits.
fruit fly got over 74,000.
Often the null hypothesis in such cases is that two experimental procedures will not differ, or that data from two methods of measurement will not differ. The specific processes involved are well defined and it is the equality of outcome that is the null hypothesis not an alternative mechanism/process.
The deduction you made from the use of hypothesis by Dr T is probably accurate. It doesn’t get used much within the scientific literature. Only when scientists start waxing epistemological…-grin-

Merovign
January 17, 2011 1:58 pm

You know, I hate to drag this out, but the mixing of the following tactics:
1. Insult, when someone responds in kind complain, falsely claim the center ground
and
2. Assertion A, rebuttal, Assertion B, rebuttal, Assertion C, rebuttal, Assertion A
Just really grates. Maybe it’s because I’m not a lawyer.
I would not engage in a debate with someone whose actions were dishonest like that. You can’t trust that they won’t just keep following the dishonest pattern.
On the other hand, it’s not terribly surprising that someone who thinks behavior like that is appropriate would want the “assumption of innocence” turned around in their favor when they couldn’t prove their case to the jury.
Treating someone fairly after they treat you unfairly encourages the bad behavior, it doesn’t rehabilitate the discussion.

APACHEWHOKNOWS
January 17, 2011 2:06 pm

Could be there should be a limit on how many times the warming religion is allowed to change the subject regarding which God to which we should all pray.

P Walker
January 17, 2011 2:11 pm

Buzz – Try reading Richard Lindzen’s post .

izen
January 17, 2011 2:11 pm

@-H.R. says:
“I suppose that I’ll be inclined to believe that temperatures are warmer than during the MWP when farmers return to Greenland. Until then… nahhhh.”
Early in this thread richcar posted this link to me for Greenland temperatures during the Viking occupation :-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grtemp.png
Now it is WIKI (the sources for the graph are in the text below it) so make of it what you will, but it does show that it was COLDER in Greenland during the whole of the Viking colonization than it is now.

HAS
January 17, 2011 2:17 pm

Jim D says:January 17, 2011 at 1:51 pm
“If the null hypothesis is that humans have had no effect on global temperature, and it eventually is statistically falsified …. what would replace it.”
I’d just repeat that the idea permeating this thread that only one null hypothesis is allowed/legitimate is wrong.
The null is simply the product of what the experimenter is seeking to test the data against. Using an example I think used here before “man made CO2 has caused the majority of warming in recent times” and “sun spot activity has caused the majority of warming in recent time” are both legitimate matters for research, and lead to different nulls (and nulls that implicitly take different views on AGW).
Selection of nulls has nothing to do with onus of proof.
“The onus remains with AGW to prove positive feedback.”
And if science is to advance someone else should be trying to “prove” negative feedback. It works both ways.

January 17, 2011 2:18 pm

After reading through some of the latest entries (comments) I would be very happy if – at last – maybe a lawyer (who should know what “evidence” looks like) or some other well informed AGW enthusiast out there could please show me, and all the rest of us, some – any – evidence/proof of Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW).
I shall list a few things below, which in my opinion because I – broadly – agree with JO Nova, is not acceptable as evidence of AGW;
1) Data show that it is getting warmer.
2) “Polar Ice” is melting and many established glaciers are also retreating.
3) Some parts of the world’s fauna and flora are becoming extinct.
4) An increase in Hurricane activ—— oops, – strike that one out! –
5) Increased droughts, i.e. some rivers are drying out
6) The Sahara desert is spreading out towards the south.
7) Climate Models tell us it will be warmer still by anno 2100.
8) There is a consensus in favour of “AGW”.
9) The IPCC claims that 2500 scientists agree.
10) Models cannot replicate the warming unless CO2 is added as a “Greenhouse gas”
I could have added some more, and I may of course be wrong, but in my opinion, none of the above 10 points can be used, not even as proof that any natural global warming (since 1850) is occurring, – let alone the Anthropogenic type.
Point 1 may suggest that the warming is global but for some 120 years + from 1850 on, scientists only had data mainly from land-based measuring stations. – I do not know how many – nor exactly where those stations were located, but it seems clear to me that temperatures measured in a small static box could only, at best, represent a few square yards(or meters) around the area in which they were measured. (The earth’s surface area is 150 million square kilometres.)
The AGW claim, as I understand it, is that 0.01% (or less) of the atmospheric volume, is responsible for what is known as “Anthropogenic Global Warming” and that seems ‘a bit far fetched to me’.
In any case, to be able to “disprove” this claim it is first necessary to establish what the proof for the claim is, even if the good Dr. T , and others, may not think so.
OHD

izen
January 17, 2011 2:25 pm

@-glacierman says:
January 17, 2011 at 12:44 pm
As to Buzz’s assertion about sea level rise, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Post-Glacial_Sea_Level.png
Clearly catastophic, mann-made rises caused by SUVs.
Have you tried overlaying a graph of the CO2 levels from ice cores over the same time-period…?

netdr2
January 17, 2011 2:33 pm

Jim D
CAGW depends upon the “missing heat”. We have been told that there is massive heating coming despite the fact that it hasn’t warmed for many years.
Prionr to 2005 the way ocean temperatures were measured was far from random They were taken by XBT’s which must be launched from ships which tends to favor warm water. I heavily discount this biased data.
When we got the ARGOS buoys we got real data down to 2 Km and the temperature has been dropping every since. I have to disagree with your assertion that short term trends don’t matter. It is impossible under standard CAGW theory for ocean and atmospheric temperatures both to go down even for a year or two.
The CAGW theory states that CO2 is causing more heat to come in than is going out [not sometimes, always] the heat could be divided differently between atmosphere and ocean [which has 90 % of the heat.] but the total energy must go up every year or the theory is wrong. No exceptions are possible even for a short time.
The measurements might have errors but the actual amount of heat in the system must go up every year.
When it is pointed out that temperatures have gone sideways for 13 years the alarmists claim the heat is building up to cause massive warming in the future but they can’t find the missing heat so they are just guessing. [Poorly I might add]
The warming from 1978 to 1998 can be fully explained by the fact that there were lots more El Nino’s than La Nina’s during that period.
The cooling from 1940 to 1978 can be explained by the fact that there were more La Nina’s than El Nino’s.
From 1998 to present thee have been years with excess La Nina’s [1999 $ 2000 for example] and some with excess El Nino’s so on balance the temperature went nowhere.
Here is the proof. I pulled it into EXCEL and graphed it.
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/ensostuff/ensoyears.shtml
Or look at this woodfortrees plot.
PDO vs temperature smoothed 5 yr
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1940/to:2010/scale/plot/jisao-pdo/from:1940/to:2010/mean:60/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1940/to:2010/scale:5/mean:60
[The El Nino/La Nina looks like the first derivative of the temperature, so that when it is positive like it was from 1978 to 1998 the temperature rises. and the opposite for 1940 to 1978.]
The slow warming is probably not caused by CO2 because it started as soon as records were begun. Besides it is only 1/2 ° C per century and is not a threat to mankind. It may have had some influence in the 1978 to 1998 warming but the bulk of the warming was due to excess El Nino’s.
The temporary highs in the PDO cycle might fool scientists into thinking it had warmed more than it really had. I can’t blame them in 1998 and seeing 20 years of unexplained warming they were concerned. [That was when the Kyoto protocol was signed] Nor can I blame them from being concerned in 1975 from being concerned when they saw 30 years of cooling just passed. [The global cooling scare happened about then]
The actual warming rate is quite low.[ About 1/2 ° C per century]

Rocky H
January 17, 2011 2:41 pm

Glacierman,
Thanks for the peer reviewed link showing Buzz that ocean heat content isn’t rising. We know for sure that sea level rise is slowing down.
There is plenty of solid evidence showing that Trenberth is flat wrong about deep ocean heat:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/01/06/new-paper-on-argo-data-trenberths-ocean-heat-still-missing
People like Buzz who want us to believe that co2 is a problem can’t identify any global damage done as a result of the increase. It’s all handwaving. None of the claims of global harm can be shown to be the result of co2. But they sure keep trying, don’t they? Every time skeptics falsify a claim about harm from co2, more handwaving about a new crisis takes its place. It’s all false panic, driven by too much money.
The change in the atmosphere from co2 over the last 150 years has been only about 0.01%. IOW, the air has changed 0.0001 in a century and a half. That’s nothing.
Local changes in co2 vary widely. They change much more locally than .01%. Sure, co2 might cause a little nice warming. More farmland would be available at the higher latitudes. Nothing wrong with that.
What’s wrong is the huge industry that has sprung up to cash in on the AGW scare. All the billions of dollars being *wasted* every year should go instead to help support other branches of science. We’re not getting value for what’s being spent on “climate studies.”
Buzz Belleville is part of the government education industry, so naturally he’s got blinders on. Slashing spending on endless climate studies would affect him and his pals. He would see how fake the scare is if he was a taxpayer paying the cost of the scare. But he’s a taker, so he argues facts that turn out to be untrue. The corrected facts don’t change his mind. Buzz knows where his bread is buttered.

Shevva
January 17, 2011 2:48 pm

Well Boris seems to get it…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/8263396/Getting-beaten-up-in-cyberspace-does-no-one-much-harm.html
And can everyone please stop feeding the trolls, there the ones spouting one liners from the guardian and Huff Post comments section, there just trying to get you ranting.

Martin
January 17, 2011 3:09 pm

@H.R. says:
January 17, 2011 at 1:02 pm
“I suppose that I’ll be inclined to believe that temperatures are warmer than during the MWP when farmers return to Greenland. Until then… nahhhh.”
Hi there H.R. I think you’ll be interested in these links that show there are plenty of farms in Greenland today.
http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/ecology/greenland-is-green-again/392
“51 farms (all of them sheep farms except for one with 22 cows)
[snip]
A local supermarket in Greenland is stocking fresh locally grown cauliflower, broccoli, and cabbage for the first time.”
And another interesting article on farming in Greenland…
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,434356,00.html
Global Warming a Boon for Greenland’s Farmers
“Known for its massive ice sheets, Greenland is feeling the effects of global warming as rising temperatures have expanded the island’s growing season and crops are flourishing. For the first time in hundreds of years, it has become possible to raise cattle and start dairy farms.”
Many people think that Greenland is completely covered in ice. Do a quick Google search for images of Greenland farms or take a tour of South West Greenland in Google Earth if you need more proof that there is plenty of green land in Greenland today.
Regards, Martin

Buzz Belleville
January 17, 2011 3:17 pm

tonyb and glacierman — I didn’t make any assertions re long-term ocean temps vs modern day. I did respond to a comment directed at me claiming that the ARGO buoy system is currently showing cooler ocean temps. It is not an area I have any extensive knowledge of, but I did look into that claim about six months ago or so and found that the scientific literature long ago corrected a misconception in that regard. That’s really all I know, and I’m sorry we got detracted on to that tangent. I am interested if you have some more current info (post Feb 2010) re the ARGO readings.

harrywr2
January 17, 2011 3:51 pm

Buzz Belleville says:
“I am interested if you have some more current info (post Feb 2010) re the ARGO readings.”
Bob Tisdale keeps track of that. Last data is from June 2010. There was an update in September 2010 that got rid of some of the big jump in 2003.
http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2010/10/update-and-changes-to-nodc-ocean-heat.html

TomFP
January 17, 2011 3:52 pm

“But I’m not trained in the hard sciences. ” No kidding. I think you underestimate the depth of your scientific illiteracy, but even given the limitations you acknowledge, don’t you think it was a bit rash to begin your response to Willis – who is very scientifically literate – with an accusation of dishonesty? Didn’t the lawyer in you urge caution? Or are we to take it that the fact you teach, rather than practise, law, and also believe in the CO2 Fairy, are testament to the fact that you don’t have a forensic bone in your body?
I suspect that behind your bolshie teenager defiance you may have learned something here. Not about science – your present misunderstanding of the null hypothesis is a bar to progress there – but about shooting you mouth off in the company of your betters. Mark it well.

RichieP
January 17, 2011 4:00 pm

tonyb says:
January 17, 2011 at 12:06 pm
“Theo Goodwin said
“My lesser wisdom tells me that Buzz is an incredibly effective troll.”
Buzz knows something about the science and is prepared to debate it in a hostile environment such as this. We have others, such as R Gates and Joel Shore that also add to the debate by giving us a different perspective from the majority here.
I’m sure that few of us want to visit a site such as this if everyone sang from the same song sheet.”
Absolutely. Without civil discourse between the various positions, as happens (and so fascinatingly) here and unlike Real Climate and other fanatic sites, no change or understanding will be possible. How can science and reason progress without debate? A troll isn’t someone who wants to hear arguments or deabte science in any realistic way. I don’t come here because I want an echo chamber.

TomFP
January 17, 2011 4:12 pm

Courtenay – you write
“That would be if and when there is a disproof of the null hypothesis of climate behaviour.”
I remain uncomfortable about the idea of “disproving” N0 – and worried that it impedes those trying to grasp the concept.
May I suggest “That would be if and when there sufficient evidence to reject the null hypothesis of climate behaviour.”? That is, proper understanding of N0 is that
a/ it arises, and is framed by, the alternative against which it is to be tested. The task of framing it is therefore inseparable from framing its alternative.
b/ uniquely among hypotheses, it has the axiomatic status of “confirmed” – testing it can only propel it in one direction – towards disconfirmation.
Or am I myself in error?

apachewhoknows
January 17, 2011 4:31 pm

Its just my odd way of thinking, would they not be better suited at this time to be into “Man Made Global Cooling” just now. Not that it is safe to give them any ideas to hockey stick graph with.

robert
January 17, 2011 4:53 pm

Willis Eschenbach at January 15, 2011
You are wrong to insinuate that there has been 0 warming over the past decade. It is very difficult for short term trends to be statistically significant at the 95% even when they do show warming. Using your example I could say that the confidence intervals indicate either it has warmed (which all datasets suggest with their mean values) that it has cooled (if we go to the absolute bottom of the confidence intervals) or that it has warmed rapidly (if we go to the absolute top of the confidence intervals). It is interesting that you would choose to indicate there has been 0 warming over the past decade with statistical significance as what you are hiding behind. As I’ve said before, it is very difficult to find statistically significant trends over short time period at the 95% level. Just because it is not significant does not mean that the data is useless. Lets go further into your statement, if you are suggesting it hasn’t warmed and you’re basing it on the mean value then I imagine you are choosing Hadley as your basis. That is an interesting choice considering it has been shown by ECMWF that Hadley has undersampled the warming in Arctic regions and that the station combination method (CAM) has been shown by RomanM to introduce a cooling bias. Yet you continue to use that dataset why exactly with these known deficiencies. As indicate in the post at sceptical science
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Monckton-Myth-2-Temperature-records-trends-El-Nino.html
Global measures such as the ECMWF, NCEP and GISTEMP all indicate that warming has continued unabated. Why is it that you are choosing to use Hadley for the basis of your claims in this instance given that is does not have global coverage? “So well known in the field” actually the thing that is so well known in the field is that warming has continued during the 2000s, the only ones who deny that are the ones who are still clinging to the belief that 1998 was the warmest year on record when GLOBAL analysis indicates it was not.
“I forget that there are people like yourself who do not know the field well enough to realize that it doesn’t need a citation.”
Don’t insinuate you even know who you are talking to or that you know my background. If you want to insinuate that I don’t have a clue about climate and temperature trends then make your assumptions. They’re dead wrong but at least you’ll sleep better at night.

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