Why does Ocean Heat Content diverge from GISS projections?

Guest Post by Bob Tisdale:

Why Are OHC Observations (0-700m) Diverging From GISS Projections?

INTRODUCTION

My post “NODC Corrections to Ocean Heat Content (0-700m) Part 2” illustrated the divergence between observed Global Ocean Heat Content (OHC) and the GISS projected rise. Figure 1 shows that GISS models projected a rise of 0.98*10^22 Joules per year, but, since 2003, global OHC has only been rising at 0.079*10^22 Joules per year. How could there be such a significant difference between the projection and the observed OHC data?

http://i36.tinypic.com/5dscxg.png

Figure 1

GISS FAILS TO MODEL ENSO

Roger Pielke Sr discussed the disagreement between the GISS OHC projections and observations in his February 9, 2009 post ‘Update On A Comparison Of Upper Ocean Heat Content Changes With The GISS Model Predictions’. There he refers to a communication from James Hansen of GISS, a response to Pielke Sr and Christy, in which Mr. Hansen offers the GISS OHC projection. Refer to the linked response from Hansen here:

http://www.climatesci.org/publications/pdf/1116592Hansen.pdf

NOTE: In his response to Pielke Sr and Christy, Hansen writes, “Contrary to the claim of Pielke and Christy, our simulated ocean heat storage (Hansen et al., 2005) agrees closely with the observational analysis of Willis et al. (2004). All matters raised by Pielke and Christy were considered in our analysis and none of them alters our conclusions.” The Hansen et al (2005) paper is “Earth’s energy imbalance: Confirmation and implications.“ And the Willis et al (2004) paper is “Interannual Variability in Upper Ocean Heat Content, Temperature, and Thermosteric Expansion on Global Scales.” Link to abstract:

http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2004/2003JC002260.shtml

Back to the topic of this post…

In his response to Pielke Sr and Christy, Hansen acknowledges that GISS does not account for ENSO in its models. He writes, “We note the absence of ENSO variability in our coarse resolution ocean model and Willis et al. note that a 10-year change in the tropics is badly aliased by ENSO variability.”

What Mr. Hansen fails to acknowledge is that ENSO also has significant impacts outside of the tropics.

SIGNIFICANT TRADITIONAL ENSO EVENTS CAUSE UPWARD STEP CHANGES IN OHC OF OCEAN BASINS

In my post “ENSO Dominates NODC Ocean Heat Content (0-700 Meters) Data”, I illustrated the upward step changes in OHC anomalies caused by significant traditional ENSO events such as those in 1972/73 and in 1997/98. This was done through simple comparison graphs of NINO3.4 SST anomalies, Sato Index data to illustrate the timing of explosive volcanic eruptions, and NODC (Levitus et al 2009) OHC anomaly data for individual ocean basins. Figures 2 through 4 are examples. In them, I’ve also highlighted the period GISS elected to model. Hansen explains the selection of those years in the response to Pielke and Christy linked above, “Our analysis focused on the past decade because: (1) this is the period when it was predicted that, in the absence of a large volcanic eruption, the increasing greenhouse effect would cause the planetary energy imbalance and ocean heat storage to rise above the level of natural variability (Hansen et al., 1997), and (2) improved ocean temperature measurements and precise satellite altimetry yield an uncertainty in the ocean heat storage, ~15% of the observed value, smaller than that of earlier times when unsampled regions of the ocean created larger uncertainty.”

But examination of the data illustrates variations that are caused primarily by natural variation, and much of these variations are apparent responses to ENSO, a variable that GISS does not model.

Figure 2 illustrates the monthly Tropical Indian and Pacific Ocean OHC anomaly data from January 1955 to June 2009. Note how the Tropical Indian and Pacific Ocean OHC anomaly data declines from the early-to-mid 1960s to 1973, then rises during the extended La Nina of 1973/74/75/76. And even though greenhouse gases (not illustrated) are rising from the late 1970s to 1999, there is a gradual decline in Tropical Indian and Pacific Ocean OHC anomalies. Some of this decline may be caused by the eruptions of El Chichon in 1982 and Mount Pinatubo in 1991, but their impacts are difficult to determine with the ENSO-related variability of the data. Then in 1998, Tropical Indian and Pacific Ocean OHC anomalies rise again during the multiyear La Nina that followed the significant 1997/98 El Nino. So regardless of the impacts of the El Chichon and Mount Pinatubo eruptions, the largest rises in OHC occurred during the two multiyear La Nina events associated with the El Nino events of 1972/73 and 1997/98. Also note that the period GISS elected to model captures one of these natural ENSO-induced upward step changes.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2j5tl4.png

Figure 2

Figure 3 illustrates the long-term OHC anomaly data for the South Pacific. The South Pacific OHC anomalies oscillate at or near 0 GJ/sq meter from 1971 to 1996 even though greenhouse gas emissions are increasing. The dip between the late 1960s and 1970 could be related to the volcanic eruption in 1963. If so, then the period of relatively flat OHC anomalies could be extended further back in time. What is certain is that there was a shift in South Pacific OHC anomalies, an upward step, in response to the 1997/98 El Nino. This happened, of course, during the period modeled by GISS.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2us7kvn.png

Figure 3

Like the Tropical Indian and Pacific Ocean OHC anomalies, the South Indian Ocean OHC anomalies decrease until the early 1970s, then rise in two steps in response to the La Nina events associated with the El Nino events of 1972/73 and 1997/98. Note the response of the South Indian Ocean OHC anomalies to the 1991 Mount Pinatubo eruption. Without that decline, the South Indian Ocean OHC anomalies are relatively flat though greenhouses gases are rising, similar to the South Pacific OHC data. And once more, the period GISS modeled captures the ENSO-induced rise associated with the 1997/98 El Nino.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2aetled.png

Figure 4

BUT ENSO RELEASES HEAT FROM THE TROPICAL PACIFIC

If ENSO events release heat from the tropical Pacific to the atmosphere, how then could they cause upward step changes in the OHC of other ocean basins?

During El Nino events, warm waters in the Pacific Warm Pool shift eastward to release heat that has been stored since the last La Nina event. Some of this warm water returns to the Pacific Warm Pool during the subsequent La Nina; some of it is transported to nearby ocean basins. This transport of warm water causes the OHC in those nearby oceans to rise. ENSO events also cause changes in Hadley and Walker circulation, changes in wind stress, and changes in cloud cover outside of the tropical Pacific. GCMs that do not model ENSO cannot account for these changes and cannot estimate their impacts on SST and OHC.

NORTH ATLANTIC OHC IS ALSO GOVERNED BY NATURAL VARIABLES

Over the past 50+ years, North Atlantic OHC anomalies rose at a rate that almost tripled the rise in global OHC anomalies. Refer to Figure 5. I discussed and illustrated the natural factors that impact the long-term North Atlantic OHC anomaly trends in the post “North Atlantic Ocean Heat Content (0-700 Meters) Is Governed By Natural Variables”. These natural variables include ENSO, the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO), and Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC). Unfortunately, the NODC OHC data only extends back to 1955. It is therefore impossible to determine how much of the excessive rise in the North Atlantic is related to AMOC.

http://i37.tinypic.com/34fche9.png

Figure 5

The Tropical North Atlantic OHC anomalies, Figure 6, show responses to ENSO events that are similar to the Tropical Indian and Pacific Ocean OHC data, Figure 2, except the tropical North Atlantic variations are imposed on what appears to be an AMOC-related positive trend. The period modeled by GISS included the response of the Tropical North Atlantic OHC anomalies to the 1997/98 El Nino.

http://i37.tinypic.com/292mwsy.png

Figure 6

Also discussed and illustrated in my post “North Atlantic Ocean Heat Content (0-700 Meters) Is Governed By Natural Variables”, Lozier et al (2008) in “The Spatial Pattern and Mechanisms of Heat-Content Change in the North Atlantic” identifies the North Atlantic Oscillation as the driver of decadal OHC variability in the high latitudes of the North Atlantic. Link:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/319/5864/800?rss=1

The decadal variations in the NAO (inverted and scaled) do appear to agree with the High-Latitude North Atlantic OHC anomalies, Figure 7, until the aftermath of the 1997/98 El Nino. Note again that the period that GISS elected to model captures this NAO-related rise in High-Latitude North Atlantic OHC anomalies. Did the GISS model include the NAO in its analysis of OHC? I can find no mention of it in Hansen et al (2005) “Earth’s energy imbalance: Confirmation and implications.“

http://i38.tinypic.com/2rdf3ao.png

Figure 7

It appears that the North Atlantic OHC anomalies peaked in 2005. Are they on a multidecadal decline now? If the North Atlantic OHC is, in fact, governed by the same processes that cause the multidecadal variations in North Atlantic SST anomalies known as the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO), this would have a major impact on the GISS projections. Did GISS include this natural variability in its model? I can find no reference to it in Hansen et al (2005) “Earth’s energy imbalance: Confirmation and implications.“

IN SUMMARY

It appears the reason OHC observations are diverging from the GISS projection is GISS failed to recognize the impact of natural variables such as AMOC, the NAO, and ENSO on OHC. GISS assumed the rise in OHC from 1993 to 2003 was caused by anthropogenic forcings, when, in fact, there is little evidence to support this in the OHC data of the individual ocean basins. In order for OHC anomalies to rise in agreement with the GISS projection, there would have had to have been another significant traditional El Nino followed by a multiyear La Nina, and there would have had to have been another shift in the NAO, and there would have had to have been a continued rise in North Atlantic OHC anomalies. Unfortunately for GISS (and for the IPCC who relies on GCMs that fail to model natural variables properly), these natural variables have not cooperated.

A CLOSING NOTE ABOUT THE IMPACTS OF ANTHROPOGENIC GREENHOUSE GASES ON OHC

I was once asked by a blogger at another website, “What is the source of the energy necessary to raise SSTs?” I have revised my response to include OHC.

The ultimate source of energy necessary to raise SSTs would be an increase in solar irradiance, regardless of whether the increase in solar irradiance resulted from variations in the solar cycle, or from changes in cloud cover, or from a reduction in stratospheric volcanic aerosols. The impact of shortwave radiation (visible light) on SST depends on factors such as the turbidity of the water and sea surface albedo, which in turn depend on other variables including wind speed and chlorophyll concentration. Downwelling shortwave radiation reaches ocean depths of a few hundred meters. Therefore, changes in downwelling shortwave radiation would have a significant impact on OHC.

An increase in downward longwave (infrared) radiation caused by anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions, on the other hand, can only warm the top few centimeters of the oceans. So an increase in downward longwave (infrared) radiation only warms the top few centimeters while downwelling shortwave radiation (visible light) warms the top few hundred meters.

However, it has been argued by AGW proponents that through mixing caused by waves and wind stress turbulence, the downward longwave (infrared) radiation would warm the mixed layer of the ocean. This in turn would affect the temperature gradient between the mixed layer and skin, dampening the outward flow of heat from the ocean to the atmosphere. The end result: OHC would rise due to an increase in downward longwave (infrared) radiation caused by increases in greenhouse gas emissions.

The OHC data illustrated in this post provide little support for the argument that downward longwave (infrared) radiation causes OHC to rise. OHC anomalies for the Tropical Indian and Pacific Oceans and for the South Indian and South Pacific Oceans show little upward trend from the early 1970s to the late 1990s. The only significant rises in OHC for those datasets occur in response to significant traditional ENSO events.

To emphasize this, the North Pacific OHC anomaly graph, Figure 8, illustrates a long-term decline in OHC from the late 1950s to the late 1980s, followed by a sudden upward shift. This long-term decline does not appear to be consistent with arguments that accelerating greenhouse gas emissions cause OHC to rise. The upward shift in the late 1980s appears to be associated with the 1986/87/88 El Nino. This El Nino is one of the two El Nino events since 1976 that caused upward step changes in SST anomalies of the East Indian and West Pacific Oceans and in the TLT anomalies of the Mid-To-High Latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere–the second being the 1997/98 El Nino. Why did the 1986/87/88 ENSO event cause the upward step in North Pacific OHC anomalies? Or was it caused by a shift in some other natural variable?

http://i35.tinypic.com/2czvw5l.png

Figure 8

As illustrated in this post, the impacts of natural variables such as ENSO, NAO, and AMOC dominate short-term and long-term OHC variability. ENSO events also cause upward step changes in SST and TLT anomalies, as noted above. These impacts on SST and TLT anomalies were discussed and illustrated in my posts:

1.Can El Nino Events Explain All of the Global Warming Since 1976? – Part 1

2.Can El Nino Events Explain All of the Global Warming Since 1976? – Part 2

3.RSS MSU TLT Time-Latitude Plots…Show Climate Responses That Cannot Be Easily Illustrated With Time-Series Graphs Alone

If and when GCMs like those used by GISS, and in turn by the IPCC, are capable of reproducing ENSO events and their multiyear aftereffects on SST, TLT, and OHC anomalies, they may be capable of determining “Earth’s energy imbalance: Confirmation and implications.“ At present, they are not.

SOURCES

The NINO3.4 SST anomaly data is based on HADISST data available through the KNMI Climate Explorer. The NODC OHC data is also available through Climate Explorer:

http://climexp.knmi.nl/selectfield_obs.cgi?someone@somewhere

Sato Index data is available through GISS:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/modelforce/strataer/

Specifically:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/modelforce/strataer/tau_line.txt

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p.g.sharrow "PG"
October 24, 2009 9:20 pm

On thread comment;
Dr. Hanson et al and GISS have been wrong so often they should have no credibility left among real climate scientists.
About ocean heating;
Water molecules are not heated all the same. Some carry more energy then others, the local temperature is the average of all the local molecules energy/density. More energetic molecules rise and less energetic ones sink, 4’C is the maximum density after which the cooler molecules also rise. This weirdness causes cold ice to form atop warmer water and warm water to stratify into hot water atop cool water. In a solar heated hot water storage tank, 100’f into the middle of the tank will stratify to 160’f on top of 70’f water in the bottom of the tank in 8 to 10 hours.
I wonder how long it would it would take a solar heated 90’f molecule to rise 600 feet in the open ocean?

Ninderthana
October 24, 2009 9:21 pm

Bob Tisdale (18:30:32)
Bob,
The surface temperature data is your own data, so I can’t help you there.
The other data is freely available at:
http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/earthor/ut1lod/lod-1623.html
I would be greatful if you would have another look and this time just look at the blue temperature curve for the Eastern half of the North Pacific.
If you really want, I can give a cross-correlation coefficient but I have always found that an eye-ball appraisal is usually enough.

Dave Wendt
October 24, 2009 9:52 pm

Philip_B (19:12:51) :
The thermocline can be thought (and is) the lower limit of the Earth’s climate.
The following is from the conclusory discussion section of the paper I referenced to Bob in my comment above
The case is hereby made that geothermal heating is an important actor of abyssal dynamics. We recommend its inclusion in every model dealing with the long-term ocean circulation, for it substantially alters bottom water mass characteristics and generates a non-negligible circulation in the present-day climate.
Since, in their calculations and experiments for this paper the authors excluded any contributions from sea floor vents or volcanism, as did, at least from my reading of it, the paper that provides the most often quoted number for oceanic geothermal heat flux [Stein and Stein], their conclusions are, as they admit, a conservative least case.
Since I am strictly an amateur in this area, I can’t vouch for the credentials or expertise of these authors. But they did manage to keep their paper relatively free from any extraneous CC verbiage, so I’m willing to grant them tacit superiority to Wiki in this case.

Ninderthana
October 24, 2009 10:55 pm

Bob,
If you want far more definitive proof that lunar tides play a role in the development of ENSO events, I can send you the pre-print of my paper off-line.
If you are willing my email is irgeoATozemail.com.au.
Dr. Ian WIlson

anna v
October 24, 2009 11:26 pm

Philip_B (19:12:51) :
I am bemused that in the mixing of waters, thermocline and all, the tidal currents are not taken into account. There are tides twice a day on the thermocline level for sure, and the tidal wave will create turbulances when it hits the geography of the bottom, as it does in shallower waters, and this should create mixing.
It is as if one is ignoring the effect of a mixer on the cake dough.

October 25, 2009 12:59 am

savethesharks: You asked, “How does the GISS model pass muster in the scientific world with such glaring limitations (ignoring ENSO).” You then asked the same question about the Hadley Centre’s model.
There is a misunderstanding within the climate community that the relationship between ENSO and global temperature is linear. It is not. But since they believe the relationship is linear, they treat ENSO as noise. Refer to:
http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/09/relationship-between-enso-and-global.html

October 25, 2009 1:57 am

Ninderthana and Paul Vaughan: Regarding my 18:30:32 comment in which I stated that I didn’t see the relationship, sorry, I missed the second note directing me to the August post. The graph in the August post, as both of you clarified, does show a clearer agreement. But I haven’t studied LOD so I have no basis from which to comment.
Ninderthana, you wrote, “If you want far more definitive proof that lunar tides play a role in the development of ENSO events, I can send you the pre-print of my paper off-line.”
My email is on the way.

October 25, 2009 1:57 am

Niels A Nielsen (13:14:12): If OHC is not on the rise, as it actualy is, contrary to AGW scientist claims, I think they often forget how complex the climate system is.
As far as the current climate system is concerned, the impact of GHGs on changig the speed of LW radiation has to be negligible and/or the ocean has other first order ways to loose or not to gain energy.

lgl
October 25, 2009 2:42 am

“The OHC data illustrated in this post provide little support for the argument that downward longwave (infrared) radiation causes OHC to rise.”
This post provides support for the argument that Nino events do not cause OHC to rise because the NINO SST graph shows no long term trend whereas all your OHC show a positive trend. A steplike graph is what you get if you add a sawtooth graph (ENSO) and a trend (GHGs?).

Vincent
October 25, 2009 3:35 am

Bob,
It is great to be able to put a question to an expert in this area.
I have heard warmists use La Nina events to account for short term drops in SST, in an attempt to explain them away. My response has been that Enso events do not alter the total ocean heat content, they only move it around. Therefore, if we could measure the entire ocean heat content instead of bits of it, there would not be any net change in ocean heat content.
The implication of that train of thought is that a) long run climate predictions shouldn’t need to take Enso’s into account if all they do is move energy around the ocean circulation and b) based on average ocean heat content derived from Argo, there hasn’t been any new energy added to the climate since 2003.
Is this basically correct or am I misunderstanding something?

Philip_B
October 25, 2009 3:41 am

Dave Wendt (21:52:24) :
I’m not disputing there is geothermal warming warming of the oceans. There has to be. For the simple reason the Earth is hotter than the deep oceans. So the 2nd law of thermodynamics says heat flows from the earth into the oceans.
The issue is one of scale. How much geothermal heating is there relative to solar heating.
I was doing the calculation, but then found wikipedia gave me the answer,
geothermal ocean warming is about 1/10,000 of solar irradiation
Which is less than the rounding error in OHC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_gradient

Philip_B
October 25, 2009 3:57 am

I am bemused that in the mixing of waters, thermocline and all, the tidal currents are not taken into account.
We are talking about the heat content of all the oceans combined. Tidal turbulence will be primarily (exclusively?) in shallow near-coastal waters, most (almost all?) of which will be above the thermocline.
The thermocline is a general characteristic of the oceans. In some locations there may be local effects like tidal turbulence which influence it. It can also move up and down due to seasonal influences.
But in terms of heat transfer, effects like tidal turbulence are truly tiny compared to the solar input, which along with ocean surface heat loss, determine the OHC of the oceans..

October 25, 2009 4:01 am

lgl (02:42:19) : You wrote, “This post provides support for the argument that Nino events do not cause OHC to rise because the NINO SST graph shows no long term trend whereas all your OHC show a positive trend. A steplike graph is what you get if you add a sawtooth graph (ENSO) and a trend (GHGs?).”
Really? Your hypothesis then requires that anthropogenic greenhouse gases only have an impact on OHC during ENSO events. Looking at the graph of tropical Indian and Pacific OHC, and at the graph of South Pacific OHC, and at the graph of South Indian Ocean OHC, where do you propose anthropogenic GHGs hide their effect from the late 1970s to the late 1990s? Likewise, looking at the graph of North Pacific OHC, where do you propose anthropogenic GHGs hide their effect from the late 1950s to the late 1980s?

Philip_B
October 25, 2009 4:34 am

It is not necessary for LWR to penetrate the oceans (and be absorbed) in order for GHGs to warm the oceans.
A wamer and wetter atmosphere will slow heat loss from the oceans and therefore warm the oceans.
While the pre-Argo data (pre-2003) does show a steady increase in OHC, I frankly don’t trust that data, because,
Historical observations are sparse and insufficient for understanding the history of the ocean and its circulation
Quote from wikipedia – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_Reanalysis
In order to overcome the limitations in the data, you guessed it, models are used.

Vincent
October 25, 2009 6:01 am

Philip B,
“geothermal ocean warming is about 1/10,000 of solar irradiation.”
There was a previous article a few weeks ago which claimed that 98% of the earths energy budget comes from the sun, which prompted my question “where does the other 2% come from?” I assumed, as did some others, that this must come from geothermal energy. Based on your figure, only about 0.01% comes from geothermal. Therefore, the original 98% coming from the sun, must be, as I had suspected, a load of rubbish.

October 25, 2009 6:08 am

Vincent: You wrote, “Enso events do not alter the total ocean heat content, they only move it around.”
That might be true for some ENSO events, but as you can see in the graphs above, not all ENSO events are created equal. Significant traditional El Nino events (the 1972/73 and 1997/98 El Ninos) that are followed by multiyear La Ninas cause changes in atmospheric circulation patterns, cloud clover, etc., and these atmospheric changes in turn cause the OHC in other oceans to rise in steps. For example, the tropical Atlantic and South Atlantic Oceans are separated from ENSO events in the eastern tropical Pacific by the Americas, but in addition to the upward trend caused by the influence of the North Atlantic, the tropical Atlantic OHC…
http://i38.tinypic.com/2me2vc1.png
and the South Atlantic OHC…
http://i38.tinypic.com/mwbkoj.png
…both show the upward steps caused by those El Nino events.
You wrote, “if we could measure the entire ocean heat content instead of bits of it, there would not be any net change in ocean heat content.”
The problem with looking at the Global OHC data…
http://i34.tinypic.com/1zgx284.png
…is that you can’t see the major ocean segments where the OHC remains flat (or declines) for multiple decades. You also can’t see the step changes caused by the El Nino events that cause the positive trends. This is why I divided the global dataset into segments in the post here:
http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/09/enso-dominates-nodc-ocean-heat-content.html
Without those step changes, the OHC rises in those ocean basins would be minimal by comparison.
Looking at only the global data also prevents one from understanding that while the North Atlantic represents only 15% of the Global ocean surface area, the rise in the North Atlantic OHC accounts for more than 33% of the Global OHC rise. Would we expect the North Atlantic to continue at that extra pace for the next century, causing more disparity between it and the other oceans, or would we expect it to cycle back for a couple of decades like the AMO?
I hope those answer your questions. If not, fire away.

MikeC
October 25, 2009 6:26 am

Sorry Bob, I went to bed early…
The data you provide, Nino 3.4, is a measure of SST, not heat content. The 3.4 numbers are just as easily changed by surface winds and currents. The tropical OIHC is too limited of an area to come to the conclusion that there is heat storage and exchange during ENSO events when the water below the surface is moving N and S as well as E and W, and up and down. My point is that the heat below the surface is just as capable of moving about the ocean and the heat release being observed can just as well be a product of the evaporation process, changes in IR response to changing water vapor content, changes in cold water upwelling and changes in local cloud cover. I do not think the Pacific is a reservour of heat that is released and stored during ENSO events.

October 25, 2009 6:51 am

Philip_B: You wrote, “A wamer and wetter atmosphere will slow heat loss from the oceans and therefore warm the oceans.”
But what causes the warmer and wetter atmosphere?

October 25, 2009 7:07 am

philincalifornia(16:16:22)
phil, I’m not a mathematician and don’t have access to primary data sources so I don’t go into the precise numbers.
All I try to do is construct a logical scenario that complies with basic physics and real world observations.
It is pretty easy to ascertain the relative scales of various effects and processes in relation to each other from published sources and from observations.
For example we see that the air circulation systems shift hundreds of miles latitudinally in response to the changes in the rates of oceanic energy release.
It doesn’t need a genius to suss out that the latitudinal shift from a few ppm of extra man made GHGs would be piffling in comparison. Probably not even measurable.

October 25, 2009 7:31 am

MikeC: Let’s address one point at a time. First, let’s qualify the ENSO events being discussed: significant traditional El Nino events like the 1997/98 and 1972/73 El Ninos.
You wrote, “The tropical OIHC is too limited of an area to come to the conclusion that there is heat storage and exchange during ENSO events when the water below the surface is moving N and S as well as E and W, and up and down.”
An animation from NASA illustrates the “emptying” of the Pacific Warm Pool by the transport of warm water from the western to the eastern tropical Pacific.
http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/vis/a000000/a000200/a000287/a000287.mpg
This can also be seen in the cross-sectional views of equatorial subsurface temperature anomalies. Refer to my post here:
http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/02/cross-sectional-views-of-three.html
Then there’s my animation of the equatorial countercurrent during El Nino events, from this post:
http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/02/equatorial-currents-before-during-and.html
And last, here’s an animation of SSH anomalies from JPL. Let the video run through to late in December 1996 (about 50 seconds in) when the first of two Kelvin waves makes its way from west to east along the equatorial Pacific. If “the water below the surface is moving N and S” along the equatorial Pacific during the El Nino of 1997/98, you should be able to see it. It’s not there.

anna v
October 25, 2009 7:31 am

Philip_B (03:57:16) :
I am bemused that in the mixing of waters, thermocline and all, the tidal currents are not taken into account.
We are talking about the heat content of all the oceans combined. Tidal turbulence will be primarily (exclusively?) in shallow near-coastal waters, most (almost all?) of which will be above the thermocline.

You are not correct in this assumption.
Even the solid ground rises about 40cms with the tides. There are tidal waves down below the thermocline because gravity does not follow your assumptions. And those tidal currents, when they meet shallower ground or sea mountains will create turbulence as surely as god made little apples.

Bill Illis
October 25, 2009 7:33 am

Great material as always Bob.
The important points are that Ocean Heat Content is not responding in the manner predicted by the theory and the climate models – and that GISS/the climate models treat the ocean cycles like noise in the system that can (almost) be ignored.
With almost no change in OHC in the last five years, that would indicate there is no lagged warming-in-the-pipeline to come and we are already at equilibrium. We’ve warmed 0.6C already, about the rate that would be expected if the temperature response was 1.0C to 1.5C per doubling.
By not taking the ocean cycles into account properly, the models have had to invent all kinds of other “external forcings” and “lags” in order to back-cast to the temperature record reasonably well.
What new “forcing” can they come up with to explain the last 5 to 10 years of no increase in temps or OHC. I’m sure that is being worked on as we speak. One could expect some exotic Ozone or new Aerosol explanation to fill the gap again but they could surprise us and actually build in an ENSO or AMOC module. [But that would require backing off the 3.0C per doubling proposition or using the ENSO, AMOC impacts in an illogical opposite to reality manner].

Philip_B
October 25, 2009 8:29 am

But what causes the warmer and wetter atmosphere?
GreenHouse Gases
I wasn’t saying that GHGs will cause a warmer and wetter atmosphere. I was saying, this is the mechanism by which the oceans would be warmed by GHGs, assuming GHGs cause sufficient atmospheric warming.

cba
October 25, 2009 8:36 am

“What new “forcing” can they come up with to explain the last 5 to 10 years of no increase in temps or OHC. I’m sure that is being worked on as we speak. One could expect some exotic Ozone or new Aerosol explanation to fill the gap again but they could surprise us and actually build in an ENSO or AMOC module. [But that would require backing off the 3.0C per doubling proposition or using the ENSO, AMOC impacts in an illogical opposite to reality manner].”
Naw. I’m almost afraid to say it for fear of the idea being usurped and implemented. The new ‘forcing’ isn’t a forcing per se – it’s because of the increased awareness of the problem and the fact that all these lunatics ‘care’ about the ‘problem’ along with all that energy conservation being done by these loonies – nevermind the extra travel from one protest to the next.

cba
October 25, 2009 8:51 am

phillip b
then why isn’t there 100% rel. humidity all the way to the tropopause?
to ignore half the physics is to get it wrong. moist air is lighter weight – lower average molecular weight and the parcel will be inclined to rise. In fact – think of it as a hot air balloon too since that moist air is chock full of ghg power absorbing h2o molecules – further decreasing the parcel density. As that parcel rises, it loses some energy that goes into gravitation potential energy but you’ve got a solar powered hot air balloon going on too. Ultimately it’s going to reach the altitude where it will try to form a cloud, increasing albedo and reducing downward SW – which include more near IR than visible light. Note too – it conveyed a lot of energy upward to where it can radiate away – that heat of evaporation is in excess of the heat required to raise h2o liquid from 0 to 100 C for a given amount of h2o.