In a study in the Journal of Geophysical Research a paper, Influence of the Southern Oscillation on tropospheric temperature, researchers Chris de Freitas, John McLean, and Bob Carter find that the El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) is a key indicator of global atmospheric temperatures seven months later. By their analysis they have shown that natural forces related to ocean heat cycles are the dominant influence on climate. See the WUWT post on it here and the original paper here.
This guest post by Bob Tisdale is a response of interest to both critics and supporters of the paper and illustrates how the multiyear processes of an El Nino event such as occurred in 1998 are missed. – Anthony
Regression Analyses Do Not Capture The Multiyear Aftereffects Of Significant El Nino Events
Guest post by Bob Tisdale
INTRODUCTION
This post illustrates why regression analyses do not capture the multiyear aftereffects of significant El Nino events. To emphasize this, I’ve provided a detailed explanation of the processes that take place before, during, and after those significant El Nino events, using graphics and videos from earlier posts.
EXAMPLE OF RESULTS FROM A REGRESSION ANALYSIS
Regression analyses are used by climatologists to determine and illustrate the impact on global temperature of one or more variables, such as ENSO, Solar Irradiance, and Volcanic Aerosols. Figure 1 shows the results of one such study. It is a multi-cell illustration of “Surface Temperature Variability Components” from Lean and Rind (2008) “How Natural and Anthropogenic Influences Alter Global and Regional Surface Temperatures: 1889 to 2006” [GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 35, L18701, doi:10.1029/2008GL034864, 2008].
Link to Paper:
http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2008/2008_Lean_Rind.pdf
http://i32.tinypic.com/2lmw477.png
Figure 1
My Figure 1 is Figure 2 from Lean and Rind (2008). Under the heading of “Datasets”, Lean and Rind write, “Monthly fluctuations in ENSO, volcanic aerosols, solar irradiance and anthropogenic influences are shown in Figure 2. The multivariate ENSO index, a weighted average of the main ENSO features contained in sea-level pressure, surface wind, surface sea and air temperature, and cloudiness [Wolter and Timlin, 1998], extends from 1950 to 2006. It is augmented with an index derived from Japan Meteorologial Agency sea surface temperatures from 1868 [Meyers et al., 1999]. Volcanic aerosols in the stratosphere are compiled by [Sato et al., 1993] since 1850, updated from giss.nasa.gov to 1999 and extended to the present with zero values. The adopted solar forcing, consistent with IPCC [2007], is less than half that reported in prior IPCC assessments. Monthly irradiances since 1882 are estimate d from competing effects of sunspots and faculae in observations made by space-based radiometers, extended into the past using solar flux transport simulations [Wang et al., 2005]. The anthropogenic forcing is the net effect of eight different components, including greenhouse gases, landuse and snow albedo changes, and (admittedly uncertain) tropospheric aerosols [Hansen et al., 2007] (inset, Figure 2d).”
Lean and Rind then go on to detail the analyses they performed. Under the heading of “Amplitudes and Patterns of Natural and Anthropogenic Influences,” they state, “Natural changes cannot account for the significant long-term warming in the historical global surface temperature anomalies. Linear trends in temperature attributed to ENSO, volcanic aerosols and solar irradiance over the past 118 years (depicted by the lines in Figure 2) are, respectively, 0.002, -0.001 and 0.007 K per decade. Only by associating the surface warming with anthropogenic forcing is it possible to reconstruct the observed temperature anomalies.”
Basically, using a short-term comparison of NINO3.4 SST anomalies and Global RSS MSU TLT anomalies, my Figure 2, regression analyses like those used by Lean and Rind argue that natural variables cannot explain the upward divergence of global temperature from NINO3.4 SST anomalies. And if natural variables cannot explain the additional rise in global temperature, then the anthropogenic global warming hypothesis dictates that anthropogenic forcings must cause the rest. BUT…
http://i32.tinypic.com/2rw9pbq.png
Figure 2
REGRESSION ANALYSES TREAT ENSO AS A “FORCING”, NOT AS A PROCESS WITH MULTIYEAR AFTEREFFECTS
Regression analyses regard El Nino events as a climate forcing of varying frequency and magnitude, the same way they consider other natural forcings such as volcanic aerosols and solar irradiance. They do not consider the multiyear processes that can occur after those El Nino events. Before presenting these, I’ll first provide a detailed description of the processes that take place before, during, and after significant El Nino events.
EL NINO OVERVIEW
For those new to the process of El Nino events, Bill Kessler and David B. Enfield, both of NOAA, provide excellent descriptions of ENSO in their ENSO Q&A web pages. Link to Bill Kessler’s:
http://faculty.washington.edu/kessler/occasionally-asked-questions.html
Link to David B. Enfield’s:
http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/general/enso_faq/
I’ll expand on their descriptions.
During non-El Nino years (La Nina and ENSO-neutral years), warm water accumulates in an area of the western tropical Pacific known as the Pacific Warm Pool (PWP); also known as the Indo-Pacific Warm Pool (IPWP). Refer to Figure 3.
http://i30.tinypic.com/b3tpah.gif
Figure 3 (Source CRCES. Link to follow.)
Some of the warm water in the Pacific Warm Pool is water that returns there after El Nino events (the Equatorial Countercurrent in the Pacific relaxes after an El Nino and the North and South Equatorial Currents move the warm water back from the eastern to the western equatorial Pacific). More on that later. Some of the warm water in the Pacific Warm Pool results from solar radiation that warms the tropical Pacific and from the trade winds that push those warm surface waters from east to west in the Pacific during La Nina events and during ENSO-neutral periods. And some of the buildup of warm water in the Pacific Warm Pool occurs during the El Nino event itself, when cloud amounts over the Pacific Warm Pool drop significantly, causing a major rise in downwelling shortwave radiation (visible light). During the 1997/98 El Nino, it has been estimated that downwelling shortwave radiation rose as much as 25 watts/sq meter over the PWP. Refer to Figure 4. (This change in downwelling shortwave radiation was discussed in my post Recharging The Pacific Warm Pool Part 2.)
http://i41.tinypic.com/2435kbb.jpg
Figure 4
Figure 4 is from the Pavlakis et al (2008) paper “ENSO Surface Shortwave Radiation Forcing over the Tropical Pacific”:
http://www.atmos-chem-phys-discuss.net/8/6697/2008/acpd-8-6697-2008-print.pdf
The accumulation of warm water in the Pacific Warm Pool over months and years from trade winds pushing surface waters west, the periodic transport of the warm water out of the PWP by El Nino events, the blast of downwelling shortwave radiation during El Nino events, and the replenishment of the warm water during the subsequent La Nina all cause the size and temperature of the Pacific Warm Pool to vary.
Figure 5 illustrates the variations in area and temperature of the Pacific Warm Pool. The illustration is from the CRCES webpage “Natural decadal-multidecadal variability of the Indo-Pacific Warm Pool and its impacts on global climate” by Mehta and Mehta:
http://www.crces.org/presentations/dmv_ipwp/
http://i28.tinypic.com/6e3skg.png
Figure 5
CRCES also provides a Quicktime movie (2.7MB) of the annual variations in Indo-Pacific Warm Pool area and SST anomalies here:
http://www.crces.org/presentations/dmv_ipwp/images/SST_WP.MOV
The variability of the Pacific Warm Pool can also be seen in the Western Equatorial Pacific Warm Water Volume, Figure 6, which is from my post Equatorial Pacific Warm Water Volume.
http://i34.tinypic.com/xfyro1.jpg
Figure 6
Note how, during the 1997/98 El Nino, the Western Equatorial Pacific Warm Water Volume (light blue curve) drops as NINO3.4 SST anomalies (black curve) rise. This is one indication that the warm water is being carried away from the Pacific Warm Pool during the El Nino event. Also note how quickly the Western Equatorial Pacific Warm Water Volume replenishes itself. It has “recharged” by the second phase of the 1998/99/00 La Nina.
The direction shifts in the Pacific Equatorial Currents that are part of an El Nino show how the warm water volume of the Pacific Warm Pool is lowered during those events. The Equatorial Countercurrent increases in size and carries the warm water from the Pacific Warm Pool to the east. When the El Nino ends, the Equatorial Countercurrent ebbs, and the North and South Equatorial Currents carry the warm water back to the west, to the Pacific Warm Pool. These shifts can be seen in Video 1 “Equatorial Currents Before, During, and After The 1997/98 El Nino” from my post of the same name:
http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/02/equatorial-currents-before-during-and.html
Video 1
And there are subsurface changes that take place during an El Nino event. The warm water that was in the Pacific Warm Pool, most of it below the surface, shifts east during the El Nino, where it rises to the surface. These changes in the subsurface waters of the Pacific can be seen in my Video 2 “Cross-Sectional Views of Three Significant El Nino Events – Part 1”. Link to post:
http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/02/cross-sectional-views-of-three.html
Video 2
Though not discussed in Video 2, the rise of the thermocline at the end of the 1997/98 El Nino is visible. “Rewind” to minute 3:00 and start the video. After the commentary, the thermocline rises, further illustrating that warm water that was once below the surface of the Pacific Ocean has been brought to the surface by the El Nino.
Some BUT NOT ALL of the warm water that had sloshed east during the El Nino returns to the Pacific Warm Pool during the subsequent La Nina. And the warm water that doesn’t return to the Pacific Warm Pool is carried westward by the Equatorial Currents of the Pacific, Figure 7, to the surface of the Western Pacific and the Eastern Indian Oceans.
http://i30.tinypic.com/wvzu6r.png
Figure 7
There, the warm water raises the surface temperature of the Western Pacific and the Eastern Indian Oceans, Figure 8.
http://i29.tinypic.com/2a75q2t.png
Figure 8
The transport of this warm water and its aftereffects can be seen in Video 3 “Recharging The Pacific Warm Pool”. Link to post:
http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2008/11/recharging-pacific-warm-pool.html
Video 3
In other words, warm water that was below the surface of the Pacific Warm Pool (and not included in the calculation of global temperature anomaly) is redistributed around the surface of the nearby oceans by the El Nino, (and it is now included in the calculation of global temperature). Phrased yet another way, before that El Nino, the warm water was not included in surface temperature record but afterward the warm water was included in surface temperature record. This raises global temperature anomalies without any heat input. Keep in mind that the rearranging of waters during an El Nino does not in and of itself create heat; it only shifts warm water from below the surface of the Pacific Ocean to the surface where it impacts temperature measurements.
THIS CAN BE SEEN AS UPWARD STEP CHANGES IN THE SEA SURFACE TEMPERATURE OF ~25% OF THE GLOBAL OCEANS
And those upward step changes after the 1986/87/88 and 1997/98 El Nino events can be seen in the sea surface temperatures of the East Indian and West Pacific Ocean, the black curve in Figure 9. Also illustrated in Figure 9 are scaled NINO3.4 SST anomalies (purple curve) and Sato Index data (green curve), which I’ve added to illustrate the timing of explosive volcanic eruptions that impact sea surface temperature (and global temperature).
http://i31.tinypic.com/24l5rlw.png
Figure 9
The area represented by the East Indian and West Pacific Ocean SST anomalies (the black curve in Figure 9) is shown in Figure 10.
http://i39.tinypic.com/5n55as.jpg
Figure 10
Refer to my posts for further information:Can El Nino Events Explain All of the Global Warming Since 1976? – Part 1
Can El Nino Events Explain All of the Global Warming Since 1976? – Part 2
SEA SURFACES OUTSIDE OF THE EQUATORIAL PACIFIC ARE ALSO WARMED BY THE EL NINO THROUGH THE EXCHANGE OF HEAT FROM THE ATMOSPHERE TO THE OCEAN
During the El Nino events, heat from the surplus of warm surface waters along the equatorial Pacific is pumped into the atmosphere where it is carried around the globe. This raises land surface temperatures, (not illustrated). And the higher atmospheric temperature also raises the surface temperature of the oceans outside of the tropical Pacific. These increases in SST can be seen in Video 4 “Global SST Anomaly Animation 1996 to 2009”. Video 4 is from my post “Animations of Weekly SST Anomaly Maps from January 3, 1996 to July 1, 2009.” There is no narrative with Video 4. The description is included in the post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ir1w3OrR4U
Video 4
The exchange of heat from atmosphere to ocean in the East Indian and West Pacific Oceans adds to the elevated surface temperatures that are caused by the warm water that had been carried there by ocean currents, discussed earlier. The El Nino also warms the East Pacific, South Atlantic, and West Indian Oceans through the atmosphere. Those portions of ocean basins are in turn cooled by the La Nina event that follows. But there is another portion of an ocean basin where the heat from the El Nino lingers; that is, the SSTs of that ocean basin are not impacted proportionately by the La Nina. And that ocean basin is the North Atlantic.
THE SST ANOMALIES OF THE NORTH ATLANTIC ALSO HAVE UPWARD STEP CHANGES AFTER SIGNIFICANT EL NINO EVENTS
The title of the linked post “There Are Also El Nino-Induced Step Changes In The North Atlantic” explains the content. And these SST anomaly step changes in the North Atlantic correlate well with the step changes in the East Indian and West Pacific Oceans, though they result from different aftereffects of the significant El Nino events. Refer to Figure 11. Keep in mind that the North Atlantic is also impacted by the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation.
http://i39.tinypic.com/15cocop.jpg
Figure 11
Assuming the North Atlantic represents approximately 15% of the global ocean surface area, then the East Indian and West Pacific plus the North Atlantic account for approximately 40% of the global ocean surface area. In the years that follow significant El Nino events, ocean currents and atmosphere-ocean processes “mix” the lingering elevated SST anomalies of the East Indian, West Pacific and North Atlantic Oceans with the remaining 60% of the global oceans. This causes the rise in global SST anomalies that presents itself as the divergence of Global SST anomalies from NINO3.4 SST anomalies, similar to that shown in Figure 2. That natural increase in SST anomalies is mistaken for warming due to anthropogenic causes.
THESE STEP CHANGES ALSO APPEAR IN GLOBAL LOWER TROPOSPHERE TEMPERATURE (TLT) ANOMALIES
The RSS MSU Time-Latitude Plots of Global TLT illustrate the transport of heat from the tropics toward the poles that result from significant El Nino events. This is illustrated and discussed in detail in my post “RSS MSU TLT Time-Latitude Plots…Show Climate Responses That Cannot Be Easily Illustrated With Time-Series Graphs Alone”. In that post, I combined Time-Series Graphs with the Time-Latitude Plots to show the effects of the significant El Nino events. But even without the time-series graphs, the 1997/98 El Nino is easy to find in Figure 12. It appears as an area of elevated tropical TLT anomalies that begins in 1998 and ends about a year later. Note that most of the heat that had been in the tropics is transported to the mid-to-high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere, where it lingers through the 1998/99/00 La Nina. Regression analyses cannot capture that lingering aftereffect of an El Nino.
http://i42.tinypic.com/2hfukjm.jpg
Figure 12
The Time-Latitude Plots also show the impacts of the 1986/87/88 El Nino and limited TLT response to the 1982/83 El Nino. Refer to Figure 13. The 1982/83 El Nino was counteracted by the explosive eruption of El Chichon.
http://i41.tinypic.com/2vwzmdj.jpg
Figure 13
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SIGNIFICANT EL NINO EVENTS AND THE OTHERS
This post primarily discussed the processes and aftereffects of the significant El Nino events of 1986/87/88 and 1997/98, using the 1997/98 El Nino as reference in many of the discussions and links. There were two other significant El Nino events since 1970, the 1972/73 and 1982/83 El Nino events. The 1982/83 El Nino was counteracted by the eruption of El Chichon, which turned it into a nonentity. As illustrated in Figure 14, there are striking similarities between the multiyear periods that followed the 1972/73, 1986/87/88, and the 1997/98 El Nino. This was discussed in detail in my post “Similarities of the Multiyear Periods Following Significant El Nino Events Since 1970.” Are these lesser El Nino events simply aftereffects of the significant El Ninos?
http://i27.tinypic.com/2gt6k5t.png
Figure 14
CLOSING
Regression analyses do not account for the multiyear aftereffects of significant El Nino events and do not account for the resulting El Nino-induced step changes in SST, TLT, and Land Surface Temperatures.
Regression analyses falsely attribute the divergence of global temperature anomalies from NINO3.4 SST anomalies to anthropogenic causes when, in fact, the divergence is caused by the lingering aftereffects of significant El Nino events.
The additional rise in global temperatures after the significant El Nino events is in reality caused by subsurface waters from the Pacific Warm Pool being transported to the surface and remaining there after the El Nino event has ended.
SOURCES
Sources of the data used in the graphs are provided in the linked posts.
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Bob Tisdale (13:34:06) :
..That´s where it comes Length of the Day and up above cycles some try to ignore…
But meanwhile we have a forecast made by FAO regarding anchovy catches (which appear when water is cold)
Years Peru Japanese Anchovy
2005 6.7 2.5
2010 8.6 3.0
2015 10.5 3.1
2020 8.5 2.6
2025 6.8 2.0
2030 4.6 1.0
2035 2.6 0.7
2040 2.4 0.4
ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/005/y2787e/
Leif Svalgaard (08:34:17) :
There is no observational evidence for the upward trend of TSI shown in Figure 1. This reduces the solar long-term forcing to zero.
Only if you choose to ignore the contentions of the ACRIM team versus the PMOD team, and believe all the sunspot counts were too low in the past as you do.
The science is not settled in this area.
Bob Tisdale (13:34:06)
Bob,
Would you go with the proposition that the Trade Winds relax because the warmer waters (from an internal change within the oceans) speed up the hydrological cycle which changes the size and position of the major air circulation systems (slackening the Trade Winds) which in turn allows the warm water to slosh east ?
Seems likely to me.
tallbloke (14:08:41) :
Here is the Scafetta talk with the ACRIM vs PMOD:
http://yosemite.epa.gov/ee/epa/wkshp.nsf/vwpsw/84E74F1E59E2D3FE852574F100669688#video
Bob Tisdale (13:56:58) :
So the step changes are really a result of the ocean dumping stored energy into the atmosphere, and La Nina does not have step changes because the heat is forced to leave the system the same way all other heat does, by going to space.
Where does the ocean’s energy come from, and why does it collect in the PWP?
Bob, I’ve raised elsewhere the issue of heat balance accounting in these ENSO explanations. Your theory is based on tracking warm water through various motions, passing heat to the atmosphere as it goes, causing warming. The problem with that is that the ocean must then show a loss of heat, while all the evidence over decadal periods is that it has been gaining. Now I note your explanation that the heat can be made up from increased SW downwelling following an El Nino (reduced clouds). If you look past the transfer processes to the global heat balance, this is a version of the view that global warming is a result of cloud variations changing albedo.
Now this has been suggested before (eg Palle), but is not widely accepted. You are relying heavily on the paper by Pavlakis et al. But does not seem to be in the mainstream scientific literature. Since, as I say, you have to account for the fact that oceans have been gaining a lot of heat in recent decades, rather than losing it to the air, you need to establish a very substantial heat source. Do you have any better backing for that?
Very well done Mr. Tisdale.
Just imagine the difference that that isthmus of Panama made when it formed and blocked the flow between Pacific and Atlantic – almost within living memory, eh?
Leif Svalgaard (08:34:17) :
There is no observational evidence for the upward trend of TSI shown in Figure 1.
Leif, could you describe for us what TSI is …. and what it is not?
For my part, I understand TSI to be the measure of short wave radiation. Does it include UV and IR? Does it include the magnetic field’s energy? Does it include the solar wind?
Is the effect of these other things upon the Earth’s atmospher well understood?
If indeed the ENSO cycles are a major driver of climate, then wouldn’t ice core temperature proxies be off due to continental drifting changing the major currents in the oceans over long periods of time? Based on that would the past then be a bad representation of where climate is headed now?
On the TSI issue, I think the more important number is the amount of energy reaching the sea surface.
As another take, as a Scuba diver, I am very sensitive to water temperatures. Here is the local St. Lawrence River water temp http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=aban6 – 69F. In 1998, it was 75F this time of year. This year, it probably won’t reach 70F 🙁
Nick Stokes (15:36:26) :
What do you think is the source?
Robert Wood (15:50:29) :
Leif, could you describe for us what TSI is …. and what it is not?
I asked this question some time ago and the answer seemd to be it is the TOTAL solar irradiance from x rays to longwave IR and beyond.
i.e. it is the total energy fromthe sun, excluding gravity and magnetic.
One thing I don’t understand: The step-up graph seems to show that the effect of an el nino is permanent (otherwise successive steps wouldn’t get higher and higher). But if this is due to bringing deeper warm waters to the surface, there is a finite limit on how much warmer water is down there. Sooner or later it must all be brought up. Since the steps have been ramping up (at least until now), that steady state has not yet been achieved. What is the imbalance factor that produced the deviation from steady state? The AGWers will of course say it is CO2, but in fact it is more likely the rise out of the little ice age. However, whatever the cause, your results still seem to show that an imbalance exists, and would seem to be an analysis of the mechanism of the imbalance rather than an explanation that AGW is not the culprit. What have I overlooked?
Tom in Florida (15:52:18) :
“If indeed the ENSO cycles are a major driver of climate, then wouldn’t ice core temperature proxies be off due to continental drifting changing the major currents in the oceans over long periods of time? Based on that would the past then be a bad representation of where climate is headed now?”
Depends on what period you are talking about. Trying to find out how climate responds to certain forcings by reconstructing from the past is probably not accurate. Too many differences to account for.
Nick Stokes (15:36:26) :Perhaps a bottle filled with hot air or pure CO2 ?
David (16:15:05), I think radiative imbalance caused by increasing GHG is a major source. It explains why the OHC increases as the air warms. Postulating that ocean is the heat source for the air means that OHC should decrease as the air warms.
Ron House: You wrote, “One thing I don’t understand: The step-up graph seems to show that the effect of an el nino is permanent (otherwise successive steps wouldn’t get higher and higher). But if this is due to bringing deeper warm waters to the surface, there is a finite limit on how much warmer water is down there. Sooner or later it must all be brought up.”
Ron, I don’t know that I’d call the step changes in the East Indian and West Pacific Oceans permanent. After the upward steps, the SST anomalies are decreasing with time, but the temperatures haven’t decayed too much before the next significant El Nino bumps them higher.
Also, the El Nino events are not bringing warm water from increasingly deeper levels of the Pacific Warm Pool. The Pacific Warm Pool varies in depth up to about 300 meters, along with varying in temperature and area. During a significant El Nino event, much of the warm water shifts east–sloshes is a good word for it. After the El Nino, much but not all of it sloshes back. But the warm water that hasn’t gone back is carried by surface currents to the East Indian and West Pacific Oceans. There it raises the surface temperature of the oceans in steps.
Nick Stokes (17:16:49) :
I think that radiative imbalance from GHG is a major source of many things:
http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm
OT: Climate nuts:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23724295-details/Met+tactics+under+scrutiny+as+thousands+set+to+attend+week-long+climate+protest/article.do
Nick Stokes, you don’t get out much do you? The Sun warms the water, which warms the air. Do you have a problem with this?
Are you suggesting the air absorbs more energy from the Sun than the oceans? Then the sky would be opaque, would it not, and the Oceans transparent? However, if you did ever get out, you would notice that the sky is transparent and the Oceans opaque.
Next, when it gets warm, the oceans evaporate into the atmosphere; this is the transference of energy from the Oceans to the Atmosphere. As this warm air raises with its humidity, it cools, the water vapor condenses, releasing energy at higher levels into the atmosphere and then falls to the ground, cooling it with further evaporation. This is how energy is transported from the surface of the Earth to layers of the atmosphere where it is radiated out into space.
OK That was the short one dimensional model. It gets more complex with the shifting of energy from the Equator to the Poles is brought into the decription.
Stay behind after class and write 100 times: The Sun Warms The Oceans.
Nick Stokes: You wrote, “The problem with that is that the ocean must then show a loss of heat…”
As I presented to you in the past dicussion, the oceans do temporarily lose heat.
http://i44.tinypic.com/5uizit.png
Refering to the values on the spreadsheet I used to create that graph, from 1997.5 to 1998.5,
Levitus et al dropped 0.9*10^22 Joules
Domingues et al dropped 3.7*10^22 Joules
Ishii & Kimoto dropped 0.1*10^22 Joules
Wijjfels dropped 1.75*10^22 Joules
They all showed a loss of heat. Some of the OHC reconstructions remained depressed longer than the others, but they all did drop.
Robert Wood (18:08:22) : Yes, of course the Sun warms the oceans. Always has. And as Leif keeps wearily explaining, sunlight hasn’t changed. But the air has been getting warmer, and OHC has been increasing. The question is, where is the extra heat coming from?
An answer floating around in these threads is from ENSO, ie the ocean. I’m pointing out that that doesn’t add up. I think it’s mostly from extra downwelling IR, from the greenhouse effect.
rbateman (13:33:55) :
Ron de Haan (11:07:15) :
“While it is hot, it isn’t record hot (I’m in the middle to that heat wave area).
The problem in my area is that the sensor went on the fritz at the Fire Weather Station 1 weekago and has been reading 5-8 degrees hotter than anything I can reproduce.
Perfect setup.”
Been the same way here on Vancouver island, I’ve been wondering were these hot areas are? I’ll admitt that it has been definitly warmer after two years(07/08) of almost non existent summers.
MSM has really been pumping out the alarmism and their predicting 90 to 100 degrees, which I’d be surprised happening(though the big heat wave over a month ago was unexpected), they keep pumping out the fire warnings and catastrophic predicted temperatures. We’ll see.
One constant in the last three years, is the cooling coming off the ocean. Inland it’s nice and warm, anywhere along the coast is sweater weather!
Nick Stokes (18:24:54) : But the air has been getting warmer, and OHC has been increasing.
Air volumetric heat capacity is 0.001297 J cm-1 K-1, Water is 4.186, 3227 times that of air.
Would you warm your cold feet with a bottle filled with hot air or hot water?, which one do you choose?…Comprende?
I read a few years back about the effects of marine Rossby waves that run East to West across the Pacific after the El Nino… They pull the the thermocline up as they move and bring warm water to the surface. This can be observed by the plankton blooms.
Due to the waves extremely slow travel it takes years to cross the Pacific ocean. It would on occasions, harmonize with certain climate patterns and exacerbate or mitigate effects…..
It probably bears looking at…..
http://www.noc.soton.ac.uk/JRD/SAT/Rossby/Rossbyintro.html