Essay by Eric Worrall
The Trump obsessed media is still talking about Trump and Elon Musk dissing climate tropes.
The new wave of climate claptrap
Misleading, misinformed or just plain baffling utterances continue to gush forth in the face of an increasingly evident problem.
Pilita Clark Columnist
You can sum up the world in just one word today: hot.
Powerful heatwaves have struck every continent over the past year. At least 10 countries have recorded daily temperatures above 50 degrees in more than one place. Wildfires are scorching unusually large areas of the globe and coral reefs have been hit by the fourth global bleaching event on record.
…
But last week, in a conversation on his X platform with Donald Trump, Musk said the climate risk wasn’t actually as high as many thought before launching into a mystifying explanation for why there was loads of time left to tackle it.
If the accumulation of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere keeps rising from today’s average levels of around 420 parts per million to above 1000 ppm, “you start getting headaches and nausea”, he told Trump. But since we’re only adding about 2 ppm of CO₂ a year, “we still have quite a bit of time” and “we don’t need to rush”.
This is claptrap of the highest order. The heat, flooding and fire disasters we’re seeing with the amount of warming that accumulated CO₂ has already driven will be paltry compared to what would happen if levels rose to anything like 1000 ppm.
…
Read more: https://www.afr.com/policy/energy-and-climate/even-musk-has-got-caught-up-in-the-new-wave-of-climate-claptrap-20240821-p5k46j
Thankfully we have proof the claim a 1000ppm CO2 world would be a fire ravaged disaster zone is utter nonsense. From the hothouse world of the PETM, 5-8C hotter than today, estimated CO2 levels around 1500ppm
Fire and ecosystem change in the Arctic across the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum
Author links open overlay panelElizabeth H. Denis a1, Nikolai Pedentchouk b, Stefan Schouten cd, Mark Pagani e2, Katherine H. Freeman a
Volume 467, 1 June 2017, Pages 149-156
Highlights
- •Increased PAH abundances relative to plant biomarkers suggests increased fire.
- •Angiosperms increased relative to gymnosperms based on pollen and plant biomarkers.
- •Wetter and hotter conditions preceded increased angiosperms and greater fire.
- •During the PETM in the Arctic, climate-driven changes in ecology increased fire.
- •Fire may have attenuated the effects of increases in plant biomass on carbon cycle.
Abstract
Fire has been an important component of ecosystems on a range of spatial and temporal scales. Fire can affect vegetation distribution, the carbon cycle, and climate. The relationship between climate and fire is complex, in large part because of a key role of vegetation type. Here, we evaluate regional scale fire–climate relationships during a past global warming event, the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), in order to understand how vegetation influenced the links between climate and fire occurrence in the Arctic region. To document concurrent changes in climate, vegetation, and fire occurrence, we evaluated biomarkers, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons(PAHs), terpenoids, and alkanes, from the PETM interval at a marine depositional site (IODP site 302, the Lomonosov Ridge) in the Arctic Ocean.
Biomarker, fossil, and isotope evidence from site 302 indicates that terrestrial vegetation changed during the PETM. The abundance of the C29 n-alkanes, pollen, and the ratio of leaf-wax n-alkanes relative to diterpenoids all indicate that proportional contributions from angiosperm vegetation increased relative to that from gymnosperms. These changes accompanied increased moisture transport to the Arctic and higher temperatures, as recorded by previously published proxy records. We find that PAH abundances were elevated relative to total plant biomarkers throughout the PETM, and suggest that fire occurrence increased relative to plant productivity. The fact that fire frequency or prevalence may have increased during wetter Arctic conditions suggests that changes in fire occurrence were not a simple function of aridity, as is commonly conceived. Instead, we suggest that the climate-driven ecological shift to angiosperm-dominated vegetation was what led to increased fire occurrence. Potential increases in terrestrial plant biomass that arose from warm, wet, and high CO2 conditions were possibly attenuated by biomass burning associated with compositional changes in the plant community.
Read more: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0012821X17301577
Hangon, didn’t that study just say fires increased in the PETM?
Yes, but read it again. The fires increased, but only in proportion to changes in vegetation. The change of fire risk was because the warmth and elevated CO2 of the PETM changed the type of vegetation growing in the Arctic.
Angiosperms = trees, and other woody flowering plants. In place of today’s Arctic tundra, the Arctic of the PETM was covered in trees.
The point is, even if a temperature excursion as extreme as the PETM were to occur, the fire risk could be managed by adopting the fire mitigation policies of the state to to the south of your current home. There will be no CO2 driven fiery apocalypse, even if CO2 levels hit 1000ppm or higher. The only changes to fire risk would be driven by alterations to the types of plants which are growing, and improvements in growing conditions – all of which could be mitigated by adopting the fire management practices of places which already enjoy such conditions.
Pilita Clark, you are supposed to be a journalist for a responsible financial paper. You owe it to your readers to do a little research, before publishing wild, “claptrap” claims about global warming.
The Trump / Musk interview is available here
Update (EW) – there is solid evidence a restoration of PETM global hothouse conditions would be beneficial for humans. During the PETM the species which did notably well was our monkey ancestors. https://news.umich.edu/ancient-global-warming-drove-early-primates-dispersal/
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I suppose that “claptrap” could better be used to describe Kamala Harris’s mouth. None of us were around some 55 million years ago, and our “carbon” emissions had nothing to do with the PETM.
Pilita Clark could be British, and thinks 20 C is a heat wave.
Yeah, probably does not know what hot is.
She thinks shes hot.
Petula Clark was more attractive and much more successful.
Ideas of Trump, versus Climate Change Fanatic, say King Charles for example: Trump graduated from the Wharton School of business (and wrote the business advice best seller “The Art of the Deal”), and King Charles (then Prince Charles) was denied entrance into Wharton because he was deemed “not likely to achieve positive results with the curriculum”. Alex, I’ll go with Trump, for the million (and none of that “checks in the mail” stuff this time).
The idea of sustained CO2 levels of 1000ppm causing headaches and nausea is likely as ludicrous as the Tesla Plaid speed setting.
Submarines typically operate with higher levels of CO2 than normal, with levels ranging from 2,000–7,000ppm.
Some older submarines operate with a max CO2 level of up to 10,000ppm.
These vessels couldn’t safely operate if the crew were constantly beplagued with headaches and nausea
Even meeting rooms can experience CO2 levels between 800-1100ppm when filled.
During my career I frequently suffered from headaches and nausea in meeting rooms, but it had nothing to do with the elevated CO2.
Right on, Bryan A, and while the CO2 level is up, they are also very close to an operating nuclear energy source.
Ron, being “…very close to an operating nuclear energy source” is immaterial. In US submarines at least, each vessel’s crew receives less radiation exposure than their families ashore.
I believe you- just curious how that can be true?
The reactor is well shielded, there are no radon sources and being a few hundred feet underwater blocks almost all cosmic rays.
Mr. Layman here guessing.
The reactor is well shielded And they are underwater.
Those ashore are exposed to Sunshine, maybe radon, etc.?
Try plane flights and being around granite. Lots of radiation sources above the oceans.
How do subs, especially old subs, maintain oxygen levels? I’d think that’s more important than CO2 levels.
O2 generators .
On 637 class , they were 6L16s.
On a sister boat they had names ….. Widow maker 1 ,
Widow maker 2 ….
O2 generators and CO2 scrubbers. Apollo missions to the moon and the ISS had/have to utilize CO2 scrubbers as they couldn’t open a window for some fresh air
When submarines return to the real world, they have to slowly mix fresh air with the sub air. Otherwise, they would have to deal with a major change in smell–fresh air is smelly, unless you’re used to it.
I’ve had my share of headaches in meetings. Well, more like pains in my neck.
When Trump wins there could be fires
Leftist riots
They like to set fires
They will at least burn US flags
Maybe set the White House on fire too?
Those will be mostly peaceful riots that burn cities and cause billions of damage. Those fires will not be because of the rise of CO2 to higher than extinction levels.
The left has had a chance to fix things in the last few years, but apparently have made things worse.
That was the plan.
Like J6…oh no, that wasn’t leftists.
Ashli Babbit
Nor were there any fires, just a peaceful walk through the building.
No flags set-alight.. because they had pride in the US flag.
A rowdy crowd, sure, but no riot and no businesses being looted and trashed and burned.
Like J6
And that’s all you have.
…. along with Asperger’s and other disorders.
The idiot Democrats are still harping about January 6, but they want to memory hole Trump’s attempted assignation. Which is worse: trespassing or murder?
Who was responsible for the 30+ deaths and the billions of dollars of damage caused by the “Summer of Love” riots?
“You can sum up the world in just one word today: hot.”
What does “hot” mean? Max temps? How does anyone know. Define “hot”. Since climate science is based on daily mid-range temps you don’t have enough data to know if max temps are going up or not. The mid-range temp could be going up because of min temps going up. Or it could be a combination of the two.
Since NONE of the predictions made by climate science based in rapidly increasing max temps have ever come true, it’s hard to believe claims that max temps are soaring to catastrophic levels.
Like so many doom-sayers, they confuse variation in weather with climate change. It’s garbage in, garbage out.
It must be very hot in Antarctica, with all that planetary boiling.
Pilita Clark has serious mental health issues and this “hot” is in Pilita’s imaginary world.
Pilita believes that there is no other place on Earth with a population. China and India are just “fictional characters” in Pilita’s mind; all other non Western nations on earth are Victims to the Oppressors of White, Heterosexual Men.
Pilita is so deranged and insane that the article can’t be seen as Disinformation or Hate Speech.
TDS is rampant on the left and in most of the MSM.
“… the left and in most of the MSM.”
You repeat yourself.
Some things need repeating!
That will be great news when paying the heating bill next winter.
Who was paying Pelita Clark’s heating bill last winter? Some sugar daddy?
She likes to use words such as “twaddle” and “claptrap” describing ideas she is not fond of. What goes around comes around.
It sure is cold in the Northwest. I’ve turned on the furnace–it’s blooming cold here.
TDS on the left and among the climate alarmists (virtually the same groups) is for good reason:
I am not a Republican, rather registered as NPA after Repubs nominated McCain. I am a Trumplican.
If you register as a Democrat, they send you stuff that informs you of their
nuttiness, and it costs them money. 🤣
The Paris Accords should be submitted to the Senate as a treaty. Since a treaty requires assent by 2/3 of the Senate it will be defeated and therefore discarded. Dems may try to revive it as they tried to revive the ERA, but it will be thrown out.
Unfortunately, Trump model 2024 is not as young as Trump model 2016. Still more likely to work than Kamala model 2020.
Trump Is Promising Cheap Gas. Too Bad Getting It Would Likely Crash The Economy.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-half-price-gas-promise-recession_n_66c68217e4b01c59f9de051f
Donald Trump’s promise to “drill, baby, drill” probably won’t change much — least of all in Texas
https://www.texastribune.org/2024/08/15/donald-trump-energy-policy-fact-check-election-2024/
China’s EVs are fueling a big oil demand slowdown
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/china-ev-oil-demand-natural-gas-tesla-electric-vehicles-goldman-2024-8
Have fun keeping the US lagging behind in the past.
That’s hilarious
Voting for trump is hilarious
Voting for Harris is downright moronic idiocy…
Intent on the destruction of the USA.
Turning it into a festering, woke, socialist junk pile.
MU, your pre-k sibling appears to have gotten ahold of your account.
“pre-k sibling”
twins ?
Not voting for Trump is Moronic given the option is Kamala Harris
MyUsername, I need to thank you for helping WUWT. You’ve inspired a full article response to your post, h/t MyUsername. Scheduled for tomorrow.
Glad to help. If it’s funny enough I may save it to my collection.
Little child keeps a collection..
If it kept a collection of every moronic comment it has made…
… its hard drive would be fill.
Your knowledge about size of data and energy is exactly the same. 😀
I am well aware of the amount of moronic gibberish you spew.
Just as everyone else is.
And everything you actually know about energy could be put on the back of a mini-packet of cereal
It’s very telling that Alarmist trolls like MyUsername, Nick Stokes, AlanJ and others can post their idiocy and lies freely on WUWT, whereas anyone who tries posting information which contradicts the official narrative on Warmist sites gets shut down and banned immediately.
China using COAL to power their cars, rather than petrol.
Makes petrol cheaper for everyone else.
Of course Texas continues to produce.. It is a Republican state.
Did you know that China imported record amounts of crude oil in 2023.
China imported record amounts of crude oil in 2023 – U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
China’s coal-fired power boom may be ending amid slowdown in permits
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/aug/22/chinas-coal-fired-power-boom-may-be-ending-amid-slowdown-in-permits
China’s photovoltaic capacity from January to July increased by 123.53 GW
https://www.evwind.es/2024/08/24/chinas-photovoltaic-capacity-from-january-to-july-increased-by-123-53-gw/100424
1… New coal plants in China soar despite President Xi’s pledge to ‘strictly control’ dirtiest fuel | Climate News | Sky News
2… PV capacity at night… ZERO !!!
yet.. OIP.12y4abv5KeHxBjxOKS3f_QHaE7 (474×315) (bing.com)
sorry child-mind.. Solar is a non-entity in China.
China still produces 1/3 TOTAL GLOBAL CO2 emissions
The 5 BRICS founding nations
Brazil
Russia
India
China
South Africa
produce 1/2 total global CO2 emissions
And the Huff.. take that with a grain of salt.. massively biased far-left rhetoric.
Never right about anything.
LOL, you already forget how many predictions failed when Trump became President all the damage, they said he would create….. it never happened.
China’s EVs are too busy keeping their fire departments busy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMKpCiDomgM
More than 21,000 EV related fires yearly is almost 70 EV fires daily
Huffpost LOL, have they ever told the truth? Do you want to buy a bridge. You certainly drink the Kool-Aid the left gives you.
Exactly, McCain was a turd.
“I am not a Republican . . . .”
If you don’t vote Republican down ballot, then as soon as they can, the Democrats will impeach Trump–if they have the majority in Congress.
I said I was registered NPA. Meaning in Florida closed primaries I cannot vote. I never said how I voted in the down ballot final elections. What, you think I am stupid? With DeSantis help, we already cleaned up Broward County elections.
“If Trump wins, Portland will burn” seems obvious.
If Portland burns it’s because the deep blues allow it to happen…to take one for the team
“If Trump wins, Portland will burn” – I thought it had already burned down.
It Trump wins, ultra-leftist thugs will destroy their own cities.
Dumb is what dumb does.
You can sum up the world in just one word today: hot.
Not exactly. It was only 17 decrees C where I was today on the south coast of England. However, the BBC website was forecasting 42 degress C in Kidderminster next week but I think that that must have been a blip because the forecast is now down to 22 degrees C.
42C in Kidderminster? Oh, for goodness sake…!
42C anywhere in the British Isles!!!!
“Thankfully we have proof the claim a 1000ppm CO2 world would be a fire ravaged disaster zone is utter nonsense. From the hothouse world of the PETM, 5-8C hotter than today, estimated CO2 levels around 1500ppm” What about the black Carboniferous to red Permian transition?
i had been told it was already on fire?
Here is Pilita Clark doing her job as a journalist :
I don’t think she can measure up to Petula Clark. 😁
“If the accumulation of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere keeps rising from today’s average levels of around 420 parts per million to above 1000 ppm, “you start getting headaches and nausea”, he [Musk] told Trump.”
Musk is wrong. Submarines typically operate with well over 1,000 ppm without such symptoms among the crew.
As if I need yet another reason to vote for the man. Drill Baby! Dig Baby! Prosper Baby!
Is she aware that CO2 is a fire suppressant?
So are CO2 extinguishers going to be the next thing to be banned?
Either that or calculators – the wicked devices of white males.
“Angiosperms = trees, and other woody flowering plants. In place of today’s Arctic tundra, the Arctic of the PETM was covered in trees.”
Along with an abundant wildlife population and humans. Way more interesting than now.
Correct on one aspect bit incorrect on another
The PETM was 52-57mya (million years ago) abundant wildlife yes…absolutely… Humans, not so much
Abundant with lots of monkeys though so the PETM was a very benevolent climate for primates.
https://news.umich.edu/ancient-global-warming-drove-early-primates-dispersal/
oops- I didn’t realize the time period- I’m not someone who believes humans were around with dinosaurs- and even they weren’t around 52-57 mya.
“You can sum up the world in just one word today: hot”
Well not in central Cali where it is currently 85.5 on my weather station at 3PM. It hasn’t been above 100 for the last two weeks and only forecast to have one more 100+ day for the next two weeks. In August I expect my daily highs to be around105+ based on the last decade or so. FYI, It is not unusual to hit 110 or more during Aug/Sep and my record is 118.
Last year we had a similar drop in summer temps and the grape harvest was really hit hard. Farmers kept fruit on the vines into November trying to get it to ripen.
I am in Mesa AZ looks like we won’t be just hitting 100 today that about 6 degrees below normal, and about four below what the predictions were yesterday. I think we had very few days above 115.
Not topping 105 in Mesa in Aug is a big deal. I used to travel a LOT and lived in Tucson for a while. I can’t think of an august trip to Phoenix that wasn’t 110 – 120, and I probably went once a month or every other month for the last 6 years.
In Portland 2 weeks ago and it was high 80’s. Friends who live in MN have been 85-90 all summer.
I wonder if Anthony could set up a pinned thread for the times the media goes on their “hottest day EVAH” rampages where people who follow his page can report there local temp if they have an outdoor thermometer? It would be low res data but might be interesting given the reach of his website. I bet we could cover a lot of the area.
Well, a Trump victory would likely set the economy on fire.
That’s a fire I’d love to watch, I’ll bring the marshmallows.
Should make eating popcorn easier.
No they haven’t
No they haven’t
No it wouldn’t
There are not enough fossil fuels left over to go from 420 in 2023 to 650 ppm in the 2100s
There will be greatly increased greening all over the world, which is good for healthy, thriving flora and fauna, and to feed all these people.
The NATURAL CO2 is 280 ppm, the level before 1850
So, all the fossil fuel use for all purposes added 140 ppm by 2023, to the atmosphere
Guterres is an unscientific, political scare-monger
Trump will deprive him of oxygen
Natural CO2 pre-1850 has been anywhere between 180ppm and 9 000ppm.
Assuming the 140ppm increase since 1850 is exclusively from fossil fuels, assumes whatever natural process that put 280ppm there, stopped in 1850 and added no more.
So we are to believe that all natural processes, outgassing from the seas, volcanic activity on land and submarine, wild-fires, plant respiration, entered into stasis by 1850.
This is the climate stasis theory, that the climate has a default stable condition disrupted by Mankind burning fossil fuels causing it to move away from the default.
As for not enough fossil fuels – nobody knows how much fossil fuel exists underground, but estimates put the amounts to be enough for six to eight centuries ahead.
Current estimates range from 60 years to 300 years.
No you can’t