From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT
By Paul Homewood
Only in the disfunctional EU!
LONDON, June 7 (Reuters) – Top lithium producer Albemarle Corp (ALB.N) may have to shut its Langelsheim plant in Germany if the metal used in electric vehicle batteries is declared a hazardous material by the European Union, its finance chief told Reuters.
Lithium’s pivotal role in electric vehicles makes it an important commodity in meeting global targets to cut carbon emissions, and it was added to the EU’s list of critical raw materials in 2020.
However, the European Commission is currently assessing a proposal by the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) to classify lithium carbonate, chloride and hydroxide as dangerous for human health.
That would result in a more restrictive regulatory framework for their use at a time when the EU is aiming to be self-sufficient in electric vehicle batteries by 2025.
The proposal doesn’t ban lithium imports, but if legislated will add to costs for processors from more stringent rules controlling processing, packaging and storage.
“Albemarle would no longer be able to import our primary feedstock, lithium chloride, putting the entire (Langelsheim) facility in jeopardy of closure,” said Chief Financial Officer Scott Tozier in an emailed statement.
“With sales of approximately $500 million annually, the economic impact to Albemarle from the potential closure would be significant,” Tozier added.
We have of course been promised millions of new green jobs, based around low carbon technologies. But the harsh reality is that China can produce everything much cheaper than Europe can.
Part of the reason for this is that China could not give a toss about environmental standards, while the West obsesses about ESG. It is simply not possible for Europe or the US to produce lithium for batteries without either making them unaffordable or compromising the high environmental standards currently insisted on.
But this latest case adds to the absurdity of the EU’s green agenda, as it appears that even established producers of lithium in Europe might not be able to continue processing lithium chloride, even though it is mined elsewhere.
The Greeniacs want us to abandon fossil fuels, but don’t want the alternatives to be produced in their backyard!
Climate alarmists are not known for logical thinking.
Removing the ‘logical’ in that is more accurate.
Climate Alarmists wouldn’t be Climate Alarmists if they could think logically and rationally.
Yep, reminds me of the old saying, ‘Socialists wouldn’t be Socialists if they understood the economy’.
This reeks of an EU politician/bureaucrat looking for a bribe or payoff.
Wow, does it ever.
There are regulations for health and safety. At least that is the purpose, we are told.
Then there are regulations designed to make the business or industry more expensive. These regulations are always dressed up as for “health and safety”.
They basically do not care that Eos will be too expensive for most people and even having an EV will be too expensive, with the high cost of energy and the high taxes that will need to be levied to maintain the roads. Of course, the long term plan is to take apart most of the roads, but high taxes will be the excuse for forcing more people off the roads, after which they will decommission many roads for lack of traffic.
Plenty of bribes coming from Chinese industry.
Right out of the standard CCP playbook: Create monopoly and dependency through bribery and social interference.
They wouldn’t do anything underhanded like that would they?
BYD pollution probe heaps pressure on China’s stuttering electric vehicle sector – Online EV
Just ask Hunter Biden.
In theory, ECHA should make its decisions on toxicological considerations. But when it suits them (i.e. when there is enough behind-the-scenes lobbying by interested parties) the EUocracy can conjure up a compromise, even one for which there appears to be no logic. It probably helps in this case that the plant is in Germany, which makes it less likely that ECHA will (be allowed to) come to an inconvenient decision than if the plant were in, say, Hungary.
That is why the EPA (and other federal agencies) demand, and receive, for no rational or logical reason, secret “science” to support their regulations.
It also is a great opportunity for big business with lobbying connections to get the necessary exemptions required, keeping out any little guys, and also for speculators in the markets who are given the heads up of the announcements to make lovely risk free returns
Ex-politicians, political families and financial services groups employing those have become incredibly wealthy from this sort of activity over the last few decades.
The Greens would rather we used horses and carts, as long as the horses wear nappies and masks to collect the methane.
The greens would rather we use carts without the horses
The Greens would rather we didn’t exist.
Nailed it in three!
The green jobs we have been promised include a great number of rickshaw draggers.
Years ago, the Seattle watershed was supposed to be one of the purest in the nation. Somebody noticed some dead trees in that forest and, oh no, they might rot, thus neglecting the fact that branches, leaves, and dead tree have been rotting there for eons.
So, they wanted the dead trees taken out, but, no, they could not use tractors, as they would pollute; they had to use horses. But, wait, horses poop and we cannot have that in the forest. The horses had to have dung bag/diapers while in the forest.
But, wait, the deer are pooping all the time in the forest. How can we let that happen? The proposed motion was to diaper all the deer in the forest. Could be a (green?) job creator as well. At that point, a logical adult stood up and pointed out how egregiously stupid the proposer was. The motion died.
That same summer, 7 clammers on mud flats in New England were attacked by a shoreline owner with a bulldozer. He assumed they were on his land, which they were not. He could not run over the clammers as they scampered out of the way of the rampaging but slow bulldozer, so he pulled a revolver and fired 6 shots at the clammers. Neglecting the fact that he tore the heck out of the mudflats with the bulldozer, the driver was charged with 13 counts of attempted murder, 7 with the bulldozer and 6 with the revolver.
Meanwhile, same summer, a man was riding a horse through a Queen’s Preserve one day. His saddle was being repaired, so he used an old feather pillow that leaked feathers. The horse suffered a bad injury and the owner/rider put it out of its misery using a pistol he was carrying. He was then arrested for hunting fowl on the Queen’s Preserve. In court, the rider explained that the feathers on the horse were from the pillow, but the judge opined that a bird was no less a bird without its feathers. When the rider pointed out that the horse had four legs and not the two of a bird, the open-minded judge redefined a bird as having two or more legs. Gavel bang, Guilty!
When the court wants you guilty and is willing to redefine reality, there is no winning for the defense.
The proposed motion was to diaper all the deer in the forest.
You’ve got to have a link or reference on that! Please!
Albemarle Corp (ALB.N) may have to shut its Langelsheim plant
Greens might call this intelligent de-development. No doubt, the site can be given over and rewilded etc
another wind plant
Hang on there a moment, where would they get the materials for the windmills and batteries from if the plant shut down.
James Bull
Wouldn’t it be just wonderful if the bureaucrats of the EU made the use of Lithium impractical, thereby helping us skeptics in our fight on behalf of wonderful carbon Dioxide! Those Germans really need to decide whether they believe the Greenies’ nonsense about Global warming, or not!
Just like the Germans shutting down their Nuclear power because of Fucishima call me stupid for not understanding this but Germany is not known for large Earthquakes nor Tsunami.
James Bull
What is the EU playing at? They push for zero CO2, now say car batteries are toxic, at the same time they declare Nuclear and natural gas ‘green’.
Is it schizophrenic or is there some weird, twisted plan here?
The MSDS for Lithium states it is flammable and corrosive.
Lithium chloride is most absolutely not flammable. It is also about as corrosive as seawater for the same reason.
Lithium chloride is most absolutely not flammable. It is also about as corrosive as seawater for the same reason.
Anhydrous?
The MSDS system has most things pegged,
“Wear protective gloves/protective clothing/eye protection/face protection Do not breathe dust/fume/gas/mist/vapors/spray Use only outdoors or in a well-ventilated area”
https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=L121100&productDescription=LITHIUM+CHLORIDE+CERTIFD+100G&vendorId=VN00033897&countryCode=US&language=en
Perhaps a fume cupboard, even
If you read through Fisher’s SDS’s for most chemicals, that boiler plate language exists. I would have to look again, but I think it is even on Sodium Chloride (table salt).
I quoted for Lithium. LiCl was a latecomer to the thread!
OK, the stuff is not good for you.
Do not eat it.
Do not make a solution of it and wash your hands in it.
Do not drink the solution.
Do not breathe in the dust.
How hard is all that?
Oh My Gawd, it’s a CHEMICAL!!!!!
RUN! RUN!
Run for you lives!
Nothing like a panicked overreaction.
Overall, not as dangerous as gasoline, which we handle in quantity all the time and never think twice about.
Inspired by OweninGA, I checked a few.
MSDS Sand:
Hazard Statements
May cause cancer
MSDS NaCl: Common table salt
Avoid breathing dust, vapor, mist, or gas. Avoid contact with skin and eyes. Avoid ingestion and inhalation.
Oh My Gawd!!!!!!
“Avoid ingestion”
Case Closed!
In short, just be sensible.
What’s that?
I was under the impression that sensible was something the modern education system was intended to remove.
James Bull
My spouse uses MSDS listings to put the kibosh on any improvements I or a contractor might make to our house and lawn. Saves me a lot of effort and money.
In sickness and in health…
Nobody said don’t use it. Just use the proper precautions if you do use it.
The argument is over what the proper precautions are.
MSDS First aid measures for different exposure routes of dishsoap. Not joking, this is for dishsoap.
Eye contact Rinse with plenty of water. Get medical attention immediately if irritation persists.
Skin contact Rinse with plenty of water. Get medical attention if irritation develops and persists.
Ingestion Drink 1 or 2 glasses of water. Do NOT induce vomiting. Get medical attention immediately if symptoms occur.
Inhalation Move to fresh air. If symptoms persist, call a physician.
Everyone needs to remember SDS formerly called MSDS are written by the company primarily to avoid legal action by idiots. Thus they are almost unusable (until you get down to the ones that actually list the testing criteria and results: LD50s are usually a good guide on how serious to take the boilerplate language.)
One SDS had me questioning what I knew about a substance – I thought it was used as a flavor enhancer in several products, but the SDS had all these strange warnings for handling. I looked down at the LD50 data and discovered that they had to use 50,000mg/kg subject mass (20% body mass) to kill half the recipients. I think it is true that even water has an LD50 for ingestion in that range. Many SDS don’t even include the portion on biological testing data, which makes it even harder to judge.
Don’t even get me started on all the “may cause cancer” warnings based on one over-zealous lab in France. The ones that have references for their warnings are great, but 90% of cancer warnings are from one lab. The ones from other labs I look at, as they will have better quality data.
Combine this with No Lower Threshold.
The Zero Threshold for chemicals is stupid-squared.
My motto is, “The toxicity is in the dose.”
We ingest low levels of thousands of chemical everyday, including quite a number of radioisotopes and know poisons, such as formaldehyde. However, we make formaldehyde all the time, but at low and harmless concentrations.
Turn up the gain (sensitivity) on any instrument used for analyzing chemicals and you will find all kinds of dirt but in harmless concentrations.
Life causes cancer. Dividing cells cause cancer—if they are not dividing they cannot become cancerous. Dead cells NEVER cause cancer. Being dead is how to avoid all kinds of cancer. Done. Fixed it.
Need to look at the MSDS for Sodium Chloride.
It is common to find people on the internet making claims that certain collectible minerals are toxic because they contain two or more elements that are toxic in elemental form. Of course, by that reasoning, common table salt (halite) is dangerous because it contains sodium (near lithium on the Periodic Table) and chlorine gas, infamous for its use during WWI to kill soldiers.
However, the critical things to consider are the type and strength of bond of a chemical compound, because it affects the solubility of a compound, and the nature of the exposure. If a chemical is insoluble in saliva or gastric juices, it is unlikely to be a problem no matter what is is composed of. As an example, metallic mercury has been ingested, and almost all of it is excreted with the next scheduled bowel movement. What little does get dissolved by the hydrochloric acid in the stomach is excreted, as a chloride, in urine with a short half-life. On the other hand, mercury vapor is absorbed readily in the lungs and even a short, acute exposure can result in salivation, with severe symptoms within hours, and it may take weeks to recover from a sub-lethal dose, assuming no permanent damage has been done to the brain and nervous system.
The problem is bureaucrats and environmental activists that have never taken a chemistry course.
“The problem is bureaucrats and environmental activists.” ‘Nuf said. Both groups of people prefer Post-Modern Science.
Among those exposed (by my own hand!) to Mercury (Hg) ‘back in the day’ – being my grade school (how dare you!) We freed Mercury on a regular basis – and I assure you – most guys did the same for many decades – and played with the “quicksilver” to quell the amazement of our young minds about the properties of this amazing metal. Coated dimes, quarters with the Hg and carried them around and took them home. Watched it gather and combine like “Terminator 1000” (where did that idea come from!) I tell you – ALL schools from the 1940s and beyond to at least the 1970s had Mercury vaporizing in the baseboards after we got done playing with it.
Ask any kid from this period. We all played with it!
Explains all the dumbass climate strike, socialist, cancel culture kids born to that generation!
I guess I’m going to have to train the Unicorns to pull carts and buggies, but that will cost money, so please advise me where to apply for a training grant.
Go to the Environmental Gulag Office outside of Nome, Alaska. There, you can make your application and they will file it for you. They will take good care of you. Trust me on this. They will take very good care of you.
You can probably apply here. I understand there’s a pot o’ gold at the end of the rainbow! 😮
No, that is my car at the end of the rainbow, but thanks for reposting my photo.
Oh, wait, my car runs on DO and does 12 miles to the litre, cheaper than hay for the unicorns and no vet bills.
The following is a 3.5 minute U.S. Army recruitment video. One might ask, WTF?
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”
―Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Like the hippies of the ’60s who “discovered” the ancient wisdom of recycling, these fools took the pretend waaaaay too far! When you have the upper hand, you use it like this:
whoa spooky…double entendre intended
The office is only open during the winter.
European colonialism at work. Produce lithium elsewhere making undeveloped countries into hell holes with what are basically indentured servants.
That’s the ticket. Get the morons in the UK who are tearing down anything related to the British Empire together with the Social Justice Environmentalists. Let them unite in protesting whatever is being done in other countries for the benefit of the West that is detrimental to people or the environment, especially those things that are banned in the West.
Then sit back and watch what happens to the solar panel, wind turbine, and EV industries. BYOP (bring your own popcorn).
The Nimby Apocalypse continues.
First, they took away what worked & promised to replace it with what doesn’t. Now they may not
give us the replacement, leaving us in no man’s land. No one ever wants to be in no Mann’s land!
But it’s Martson’s. Like Banks’s and Thwaites. And no mild anywhere to be found. No Mann’s land. Although the Isle of Man has Okells.
Most metals are hazardous to human health in various chemical forms if ingested or inhaled. Most industrial chemicals, most building materials, even just raw dirt, all are hazardous depending upon chemical form, concentration, and route into the human body. And accordingly, all such hazardous substances should be regulated in such a way as to prevent human health risks. As they most certainly are already regulated in the United States and the entire developed world.
Not prevent, reduce to an acceptable risk. Let us not go down the insanity of zero risk policies.
“Most refined metals …”
Any kind of dust, composed of very fine particles, can be bad for one’s lungs — road dust, sawdust, flour, coal dust, brake-lining dust, etc.
It adds to the absurdity of every agenda….
For starters, here in the UK, the Royal Mail (Post office) simply and point-blank refuses to handle or carry anything with a battery in it.
For fear it make leak, catch fire or either, by accident or design, be = A Bomb
Not just the UK.
Me and you can take our virtual selves to China and purchase Lithium Batteries.
A 4-cell hunk of Lithium making up a 12Volt 100Ah battery might cost £25 – possibly subject to UK tax at 20%
But to get it shipped from China to UK will cost another £200.
The numbers are crazy. Some sellers ramp the battery price for less shipping but some sellers are charging £300 for that sort of consignment
And that is because Lithium batteries have been declared ‘Hazardous’ – thus the folks shipping them can charge what they like but in part because they are bridled by hideous costs for insurance. Oh hello Lloyds of London, do you know anything about this?
And of course, all the landed gentry and ex-ministers prime ministers and civil servants who underwrite that august organisation.
And the have to be ‘shipped’ – in an ordinary slo-mo ship chug chug chugging along for 6 weeks minimum. If they can find any containers to put the things in first,
Road transport to UK (and US) is a non-starter from China and because Lithium is regarded as more dangerous than hairspray, nail-polish and even Plutonium by airlines, flying the things is a complete no-no
And yet, where The Insanity really comes home to roost is that Mr Joe Public Ordinary Punter is being obliged to buy huuuuuge chunks of Lithium, installed in his car and the ride around mistreating the things as however he sees fit
Many thanks big hugs & kisses to Tony Blair in cahoots with Harriet Harman, it is now enshrined in British Law that all the Joe Publics of the UK are dumb stupid criminals constantly up to no good and badness.
That is why over his 10 year reign, tripled the size of the UK Statute Book – previously a modest affair originating from the Doomes-Day Book of whenever (1215 AD ??)
Everyone in the UK is a criminal now, it’s only just a matter of catching them at it.
Yet these low-lifes are to be *forced* into riding around in (haha) bangers that comprise what our very own Royal Mail currently regards as toxic fire hazards and potential bombs.
Stop the world, I wanna get off.
edit to PS
Yes Lithium ‘metal’ in whatever form can be rather horrible stuff if it gets into us.
BUT, so can e.g. Copper and Selenium but our metabolism demands we have tiny amounts within us – and Lithium is off-the-scale important for the functioning of our brains
Maybe up to 5mg per day intake and of course being an alkali metal, is very vulnerable to the effects of soil erosion, esp where Nitrogen fertiliser is allowed to acidify farmland
(Hence why it’s found in salt lakes, brines and the ocean
Over 120mg of Lithium per day starts to become toxic
Not to argue your well put points, but just for the sake of history:
1215…..the Magna Carta
The Domesday Book was like our census, ordered by William the Conqueror, soon after taking control (Battle of Hastings, around 1066, I think, with the Domesday Book ordered a decade or two later). Btw, the “Domes” part was like the words Domestic and Domicile, ie a counting of households in the homeland of Britain….unrelated to “doom”——unlike CAGW, which is all about doom.
Domesday book wasn’t a census. It was England’s first tax assessment.
Not long ago I ordered a device, through Amazon, one of whose promoted attributes was a significantly larger than average lithium based battery. While I’m sure some shipping expense was included in the price, the selling price being over $25, shipping was “free”. Whatever part of the price was included shipping, it could not have approached the rates declared in Peta’s post.
I’m sure the device you ordered didn’t include a whopping big 120AH battery at 12V. Most batteries in phones are around 3000mAH – 3AH – @3.7V (some newer I just checked say 3.85). Tablets will have one about double or triple that, and laptops at almost 12V be about 4AH for a 6 cell and 6AH ( 72 WH) for a 9 cell extended battery. Newer laptops might be using non-user-removable LiPo batteries like a cell phone and so the capacities will be different but still in the same basic ballpark, max 80AH.
I had ordered a replacement battery for a 2012 vintage laptop and had no issues with shipping. Maybe the shipping companies think there is something drastically different between a 72AHx11.1V laptop battery and Peta’s 120AHx12V model (wheelchair? PowerWheels?)
I think mine were already in the country (retailer ordered a container load) whereas Peta (she?) is trying to order directly from China -AliExpress?
Anyways, shippers will use any excuse to tack on a surcharge.
copper deficiency is on the rise due to the use of pvc pipes for plumbing and stopping using copper as tanks in HWS
Wonder what the EU will do when they discover one of the most dangerous and corrosive elements is oxygen?
It can be found in another deadly chemical Greenies want to ban- Dihydrogen Monoxide!
http://www.bandhmo.org/
It is what makes the carbon so bad in the carbon compound CO2
Or DiHydrogen-Monoxide
If you want life time employment, get a job interpreting the EU chemical directives such as REACH and RoHS and complying with them.
But I LIKE my sanity…
I think we are seeing why Wiccan and related old pre-christian religions are resurgent in Europe.
They are all heavy with magic, which will be the only hope left as Europe abandons logical thinking and reality-based science.
It’s an American company operating in Europe. That makes it toxic and a target.
Well, that explains it. If it was owned by Philips, Benz, Siemens, or other big European corp you wouldn’t have heard a peep about lithium.
Close it and watch the other company assets rise in value.
The alternative to lithium is lead. But that is OK.
Mind you, lead-based batteries don’t often (ever?) spontaneously combust!
they produce hydrogen and, in unfortunate circumstances, can produce a nasty explosion
As long as the hydrogen is vented and spark control is used, it isn’t a problem. However, whoever that German psycho was that decided the battery in the 62 beetle needed to be under the back seat did neither of those. Seat spring sparked on battery terminal and ignited the hydrogen giving the back seat right hand passenger quite a boost.
So 007 didn’t have the only car with an ejection seat?
Score one for Volkswagen.
But Volkswagen didn’t have that way-cool oil slick spreader like 007 did. Oh they did? They leaked oil like a sieve?
OK. Chalk up another one for Volkswagen.
How about the smokescreen 007 had? Wait, older Volkswagen trailed a constant cloud out the exhaust, didn’t they.
Hmmm…. Volkswagens are still hanging tough with 007’s Aston Martin.
Aha! Machine guns. None of the Volkswagens had machine guns behind the headlights like 007 had.
And the tiebreaker goes to 007 for the win!
But, it doesn’t keep burning until all the lead is oxidized.
To misquote Goldfinger: ““Do you expect me to make Li batteries?” “No, Mr. Europe, I expect you to die!”
The greens are all about political power, not power for people to use.
Stop using gasoline and start using diesel because it gets better mileage. Stop using diesel and start using electric to save the planet from CO2. Stop using electric because it requires Lithium and it’s dangerous. See a pattern?
Yes — STOP!. GO TO JAIL
declared a hazardous material by the European Union
Can someone help me with this? Lithium is classified as a Hazardous Material per ERG (Emergency Response Guidebook) – but that’s US. Is it not designated such in EU or is this classification something totally different?
Had they lived in the stone age they would have abolished fire. Then their prospects would have been short.
they are trying to abolish fire now.
They’re 100,000 years or so late.
Oh well. Better late than never.
Lead (Pb) is dangerous to human health, yet it has been used in batteries in Europe for + 100 years
And that’s why it’s regulated.
(But some regs are based on zero tolerance and serve no useful purpose.)
Does this mean that they are going to export the dirty and dangerous jobs to the third world?
Yep, nothing changes.
playbook: Create monopoly and dependency through bribery and social interference.
But this latest case adds to the absurdity of the EU’s green agenda, as it appears that even established producers of lithium in Europe might not be able to continue processing lithium chloride, even though it is mined elsewhere.
The Greeniacs want us to abandon fossil fuels, but don’t want the alternatives to be produced in their backyard!
Oh dear, I weep for the poor Jerries! Well, you have to laugh till the tears come, n’est-ce pas?
Interesting. I had a look at the ECHA website and could not find Lithium being investigated.
https://echa.europa.eu/oels-activity-list
Their actual database was down when I looked, but the above link shows active investigations…
But isn’t that the whole idea? Ban fossil fuels using one argument. Then ban the manufacture of their replacements using another argument. Then ban the importation of the finished products using still another argument. Eventually we will have nothing and be happy.
Maybe we won’t need lithium: Home – Solid Power (solidpowerbattery.com)
“Lithium is the most critical metal for EVs as it has no commercially available substitute at scale”
IEA Global EV Outlook 2022 ‘Securing supplies for an electric future’
This surely is satire?
Commenters compared MSDS for lithium and sodium chlorides. I went a step further for the MSDS for distilled water.
members.afflink.com › mbrfile › 2370 › Distilled-Water-MSDS52020111325307.pdf
Here is an excerpt:
SECTION 4: First aid measures
Description of first aid measures
After inhalation
Move exposed individual to fresh air
After skin contact
Wash affected area with soap and water
After eye contact
Protect unexposed eye. Rinse/flush exposed eye(s) gently using water. . .
Now we know why Lady Macbeth engaged in obsessive-compulsive hand washing.
,,
I love the boilerplate language of SDS. The water one has always cracked me up (I read these for a living at the University I work at to make sure my researchers don’t do something obviously stupid. Sometimes research PhDs get so tunnel-visioned that they completely lose the ball common-sense wise. Do lovely cutting edge work on medicinal- and bio- chemistry, but will try to store oxidizers next to fuel if you don’t watch them.)
Storehouse of oxidizer component next to fuel source…
Lithium Batteries
Doesn’t this remind you of a snake swallowing itself?
really couldnt make this schist up..so whos got the interests in hydrogen cars? etc i wonder..cos apart from the now oldtech LPG vehicles thats the option left on the board
or
we could just keep using petrol n diesel and be happy, dont scrap many millions of reliable old ICE engines and save gazillions in utter waste.
really THE largest hazard is the greentards in all guises
Green Math: millions of green jobs created because government policy destroyed tens of millions of existing jobs by destroying the usability of existing capital stock and requiring replacements that cost several times more because they employ green technology.
I think you should start a new page or stream dedicated to a foot shooting championship. Because there are just so many examples.
I remember the late Christopher Booker talking about a lime producer here in the UK being threatened with closure because of the wind carrying a small amount of dust over agricultural land what those making these threats didn’t get was that the farmer was buying lime from this company and spreading it over the very same fields?
Bit like child protection legislation requires the keeping of records almost indefinitely but data protection legislation requires that personal information is deleted destroyed after a certain number of years?
James Bull
The psychological benefits of regular doses of lithium are apparently not proving effective.