Gas Rationing? Germany Paying a Horrible Price for Decades of Green Energy Insanity

Essay by Eric Worrall

As Germany braces for extreme economic and social hardship, it is worth reflecting on the misery the empty promises of green energy advocates have delivered.

Germany girds for gas rationing, Europe on edge in Russian standoff

By Joseph Nasr and Vera Eckert

  • Europe fears Moscow will turn off gas supplies
  • Kremlin says rouble payments a good idea for other commodities
  • Kremlin says it will not immediately demand roubles for gas
  • Economic standoff raises risk of recession in Europe

BERLIN/FRANKFURT, March 30 (Reuters) – Germany triggered an emergency plan to manage gas supplies on Wednesday under which Europe’s largest economy could ration power if a standoff over a Russian demand to pay for fuel with roubles disrupts or halts supplies.

Russian President Vladimir Putin told German Chancellor Olaf Scholz by phone on Wednesday that nothing would change for European partners and payments would still be made in euros and transferred to Gazprom bank, a German spokesperson said. read more

Separately, Putin outlined the rouble plan in a phone call with Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi, Draghi’s office said. 

INDUSTRY FIRST IN LINE FOR CUTS

Berlin’s unprecedented move is the clearest sign yet that the European Union is preparing for Moscow to cut gas supplies unless it gets payment in roubles. Italy and Latvia have already activated warnings.

German Economy Minister Robert Habeck implemented the “early warning phase” of an existing gas emergency plan, where a crisis team from the economics ministry, the regulator and the private sector will monitor imports and storage.

Habeck told reporters Germany’s gas supplies were guaranteed for now but urged consumers and companies to reduce consumption, saying that “every kilowatt hour counts”.

If supplies fall short, Germany’s network regulator can ration gas, with industry first in line for cuts and preferential treatment for private households, hospitals and other critical institutions.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germany-declares-early-warning-potential-gas-supply-disruptions-2022-03-30/

Who feels like opening a new business in Germany? When will the wind mills deliver the abundance and low costs green advocates keep promising?

Who still believes renewables are “cheaper than coal”?

It could all have been so different. If Europe had embraced nuclear power and fracking, they could have laughed off Putin’s gas supply threats.

I would like to report that Europe has woken from its delusions, but despite my early hopes, the messages are mixed. Politicians still haven’t got the balls to admit they were wrong. There has been some recommissioning of coal, but not nearly enough. The public line is any recommissioning of fossil fuel infrastructure is temporary.

Wake up Germany and Europe. You have a few short months of Summer to figure out how you will survive the coming energy supply crash. The one chance your politicians have to redeem themselves for decades of policy failures is to make this right. Because if that Russian gas supply goes down in winter, and you are still unprepared, some of your people freeze to death.

Update (EW): Fixed a typo (h/t Bob Tisdale)

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Gregory Woods
March 31, 2022 10:03 am

Somewhat OT: The Hill has eliminated comments – what are they afraid of?

MarkW
Reply to  Gregory Woods
March 31, 2022 11:42 am

1) Reality
2) Truth

observa
Reply to  MarkW
April 1, 2022 12:05 am

……
3) Embarrassment
4) Shame
5) Despair
6) Redundancy

Ron Lyons
Reply to  MarkW
April 1, 2022 9:17 am

Since not that many people read the Hill, space is becoming scarce. So tightening up on comments is one way to ease up on web space costs. That’s only a guess it could be worse it could be censorship.

Last edited 3 months ago by Ron Lyons
Tee Shanny
Reply to  Gregory Woods
March 31, 2022 11:47 am

Same with Faux Snooze.
Truth, reality and integrity have never been their strong points.

MarkW
Reply to  Tee Shanny
March 31, 2022 12:58 pm

Ah yes, anything that doesn’t fit the far left wing narrative is by definition a lie.

Scissor
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 1:53 pm

It’s too bad there’s no middle or far right mainstream news network.

Derg
Reply to  Scissor
March 31, 2022 1:58 pm

Or one that does not work closely with the CIA, FBI, NSA, DHS….you know…three letter agencies 🤓

Scissor
Reply to  Derg
March 31, 2022 2:12 pm

Yes, those are main stream media’s biggest clients.

griff
Reply to  MarkW
April 1, 2022 3:35 am

and anything not fitting the right wing narrative must be funded by communists (or so the good folk here tell me)

Gerry, England
Reply to  griff
April 1, 2022 6:35 am

Wrong again Village Idiot – it is fascism since that involves the corporates.

MarkW
Reply to  griff
April 1, 2022 3:05 pm

I see you are still trying to push the line that the political spectrum runs like this
communist
socialist
far right

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Tee Shanny
March 31, 2022 1:15 pm

I see you’ve decided to carpet bomb the site. No problem. It’s always interesting to see the dementia of the left on full display. “See kids, this is your brain on letftard liberalism.”

Mario Lento
Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
March 31, 2022 4:59 pm

The thing about Tee Shanny is that nothing he writes is substantive. I learn from people I strongly disagree with all the time. The drivel from Tee is disconnected, unfocused blather that he/she/it does not understand.

It’s hard to have a cogent exchange with someone lacking a prerequisite foundation of something true or at least falsifiable.

It’s like someone who claims A+B=C where clearly they don’t know the value of A or B, but are certain of C.

Jtom
Reply to  Mario Lento
March 31, 2022 6:04 pm

What I find astounding is that a very high percentage of the left are like that. I came to this site right after making comments on multiple Fox News stories. Are they so dense that they don’t realize they are only hurting their own positions?

mario lento
Reply to  Jtom
March 31, 2022 6:39 pm

I think they really believe, and feel… and are taught that they are not the experts, so they should trust their chosen authorities. Once they choose a side, they can easily do “their own research” and feel like they did due diligence.

The problem is that there is almost no logic to the LEFT’s argument. So, the only way to get their point across is to get angry… and that is because they cannot defend their positions except to spew memes and say things they heard other people say.

Last edited 3 months ago by mario lento
Ron Lyons
Reply to  mario lento
April 1, 2022 9:36 am

As remarkable as this may seem, Europe is still too close to feudal serfdom. The predominating intellectual capabilities of the Dark Age still persists. Even though the Enlightenment told them that they could be free to think on their own, they didn’t. In the American revolution we listened to the philosophes and grew beyond measure.

Last edited 3 months ago by Ron Lyons
griff
Reply to  Jtom
April 1, 2022 3:35 am

Fox ‘news’. LOL.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  griff
April 1, 2022 4:03 am

Have you ever read or watched Fox News? You sound like my stupid brother who constantly criticizes Fox News but has never seen it.

MarkW
Reply to  griff
April 1, 2022 3:07 pm

Do you have evidence that Fox news is biased? Or is that just what the Guardian tells you to think.

Last edited 3 months ago by MarkW
beng135
Reply to  griff
April 2, 2022 10:16 am

“Griff”, LOL.

Last edited 3 months ago by beng135
Tom Halla
March 31, 2022 10:10 am

Voting out the Greens and anyone, like Boris Johnson, who voted to support this failure is the only long term solution. As the politicians would not do math in this case, there is a very good expectation they would not in any case.

Willem post
Reply to  Tom Halla
March 31, 2022 2:53 pm

We should all be glad the naive Ukrainians took the bait fighting the US/UK-instigated proxy war with Russia, fought exclusively on Ukrainian soil.

Comedian Zelenskyy cries, give us more weapons and we will destroy all of our beloved Ukraine, while inflicting some pain on Russia.

Russian polls indicate Putin’s approval rating is at 83%, just a TAD better than hiding in the basement, grifting and grafting, imposter, senile, nonsense-blabbing Biden

Rich Davis
Reply to  Willem post
March 31, 2022 4:50 pm

Really, that high? A full 17% prefer death to dishonor. Impressive.

MarkW
Reply to  Willem post
March 31, 2022 5:09 pm

Putin’s trolls are getting desperate.

Ted
Reply to  Willem post
March 31, 2022 6:39 pm

US/UK instigated? Please tell us this is just throwing random stuff on the wall to see what sticks and not an official part of the narrative.

Rick Jefferson
Reply to  Ted
March 31, 2022 11:32 pm

No. They are facts. Russia will not allow the USA (NATO) to place nuclear weapons on their border with Ukraine anymore than the USA would allow Russia to place nuclear weapons on the USA border. In other words, it is as simple as 2 + 2 = 4 Putin won’t be bullied by demented Joe or anyone else.
Neither will China.

Steve Richards
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 1, 2022 1:57 am

How many NATO member countries have nuclear weapons on their soil?

Not many I suggest!

Owners of ‘special’ weapons are extremely keen to keep them under safe and secure control.

willem post
Reply to  Steve Richards
April 1, 2022 8:40 am

NATO Expansions Starting in 1999 

The “unprovoked, unjustified” descriptor of the Ukraine War obscures a long history of provocative actions by the US regarding Ukraine. This history is important to understand: 1) how we got here, and 2) what responsibility the US bears for the current attack on Ukraine.
https://fair.org/home/calling-russias-attack-unprovoked-lets-us-off-the-hook/

Unprovoked?
– The US/UK used NATO to expand military personnel and infrastructures beyond East Germany to Russian borders, after the US/German 1990-promise to Gorbachev not to expand beyond East Germany.
– NATO claims innocence, because each country has a right to make its own security arrangements, which is OK, except it should not be dome at the expense of the security of other countries. 
– NATO has no right to claim innocence, because it promised not to expand beyond East Germany in 1990

Unjustified?
– NATO would have 100% US-owned and 100% US-staffed AEGIS systems, with hypersonic missiles, in Poland, Ukraine and Romania, that would have the potential, if equipped with nuclear bombs, to destroy all of Moscow and Saint Petersburg, and all of west Russia, within minutes. 
– Russia could have comparable missile systems, but Russia would have to place them on Cuba and in Mexico and Canada, which would arouse major panic in the US.

MarkW
Reply to  willem post
April 1, 2022 3:11 pm

Bully’s always declare that failure to obey quickly enough is provocation.

Putin has wanted to rebuild the Soviet empire, and he has been working toward that goal for years. This war is merely the latest step towards that goal.

Rick Jefferson
Reply to  Steve Richards
April 1, 2022 4:56 pm

The USA can place nuclear weapons in any country that is a member of NATO that asks for them. Nuclear missiles in Ukraine would only be five minutes from Moscow. The CIA puppet, Zelensky, has openly asked for US nuclear weapons as well as a USA enforced no-fly zone which would guarantee a nuclear war.

MarkW
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 2, 2022 9:04 am

Anyone who isn’t a Putin lackey, is a CIA puppet.

Teddy Lee
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 1, 2022 3:30 am

Ukraine gave up it’s soviet nuclear weapons,I believe they were given back to Russia. Obama guaranteed Ukraine sovereignty for doing so.

Reacher51
Reply to  Teddy Lee
April 1, 2022 5:39 am

Russia guaranteed Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity for doing so as well. Apparently, Russian guarantees aren’t worth very much.

However, Russia seems able to manufacture nonsense about not allowing NATO nukes into Ukraine- despite Ukraine previously having voluntarily given up the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal, and despite the fact that Ukraine is not a NATO member, and despite the fact that no one in NATO ever suggested putting nukes into Ukraine for any reason whatsoever- and still have useful idiots like Rick Jefferson enthusiastically parrot that propaganda.

So maybe all the Russians really need to do now is to claim that they are defending Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity by invading Ukraine, annexing their territory, and destroying their sovereignty, and the Rick Jeffersons of the world (which includes the several people who hit the plus button on his comment) can proudly inform us that Russia protecting Ukrainian sovereignty by eradicating it is just like saying 2+2=4.

willem post
Reply to  Reacher51
April 1, 2022 8:26 am

Ukraine has more than 20 locations at which biolab research is being carried out, as confirmed by Asst Secretary of State Nuland.

Those biolabs were partially financed by the US Department of Defense.

Hunter Biden raised money for some of the biolabs, while on the board of Burisma (at $80,000/month for 5 years), a gas trading company, which has as major investor Kolomoisky (a muti-billionaire in a poor country), who financed the campaign of comedian Zelensky for President, who knows how to spell-bind a crowd.

Anything is possible in poor, corrupt Ukraine.
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/the-plot-is-thickening-with-germany-and-france-no-longer-in

Romeo Rachi
Reply to  willem post
April 1, 2022 1:01 pm

Shhhh! Putin bad, Zelensky good along with all the other crooked western leaders who used and abused Ukraine for the last two plus decades.
Putin isn’t innocent by no means and has blood on his hands for sure but to somehow ignore all the lies, corruption, blackmail and murder that has been perpetrated on the behalf of these corrupt leaders in Ukraine is beyond me.
This is just more of the ‘lets be offended by the next thing’ crowd and forget what has happened over the last two decades of the EU, NATO and the US screwing over countries like Ukraine while their leaders have been sucking their people dry. There is plenty of blame to go around and just saying Putin bad just shows the ignorance so many people choose to embrace when it comes to the next thing to be offended by.

Reacher51
Reply to  willem post
April 1, 2022 1:19 pm

Firstly, Nuland confirmed that there are biological research facilities in Ukraine, which was public knowledge, and that the U.S. is concerned about those facilities falling into the hands of the Russians, which anyone even moderately sane would also be. She said nothing whatsoever about the labs being financed by the Dept. of Defense, or about Hunter Biden, or about Burisma, Zelensky, or anything else you are raving about.

Secondly, what exactly is your point? That it is ok for the Russians to break their pledge guaranteeing Ukraine’s sovereignty, murder countless Ukrainians, destroy hundreds of billions of dollars of property, separate families and drive millions of terrified refugees out of their own country because… Hunter Biden used his last name to get a highly paid job he wasn’t remotely qualified for? Or because the Ukrainians elected a charismatic president, who later turned out to be brave and heroic? How exactly does any of this make sense to you?

Here is the more important issue that I believe you really should be focused on. We know from newspaper reports that Justin Trudeau, the leader of Canada, once painted his face black at a party. We also know that Conrad Black was, at one point, Canada’s leading newspaper baron. Now, Joe Biden has previously admitted that he would read newspapers every day when he traveled from DC to Delaware and back by rail… And what was the very first thing that Biden did when he was elected President? Why, he killed the Keystone XL pipeline, as a result of which Canadian oil that otherwise would move by pipeline needs to travel by rail!

Therefore, it is clearly necessary that we violently annex British Columbia, utterly destroy Alberta and Saskatchewan, and hang the current sitting “government” of Canada. I assume this is similarly obvious to someone as astute as you, but for “some reason” the rest of the world and the lamestream media pretend not to see it!

MarkW
Reply to  willem post
April 1, 2022 3:12 pm

Can’t refute the facts, so you just spew new lies.

willem post
Reply to  willem post
April 2, 2022 7:10 pm

Bio-Biden: Who Are the Americans Coordinating Bioresearch in Ukraine?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/04/americans-coordinating-bioresearch-ukraine/

By Richard Abelson 

Robert Pope – DTRA

The chief of Russia’s radiation, chemical and biological protection force, Igor Kirillov, told a news briefing Thursday that one of the key figures was Robert Pope, the Director of the US Defense Department’s Cooperative Threat Reduction Program at the Defense Threat Reduction Agency (also known as the Nunn-Lugar program). 

“Pope authored the idea of creating a central depository of high-threat pathogens in Kiev,” Kirillov said.

Pope was deputy director of operations, readiness and exercises at the DTRA from 2017 until 2020, according to the New Zealand Daily Telegraph

“He previously held various positions at US Air Force European Command (USAFE), US Central Command (USCC), and the Pentagon. 

Pope participated in the development of radiochemical procedures for monitoring international treaties in the field of nuclear weapons (Air Force Technical Application Center).

See URL for many more names

Rick Jefferson
Reply to  Reacher51
April 1, 2022 5:16 pm

NATO nuclear weapons are real, not nonsense. It is yourself who is a useful idiot for the US policy of Full Spectrum Domination.
In 1990, Russia was given a an iron clad guarantee that NATO would not move “one inch eastward” Granting sovereignty does give permission to put nuclear weapons on your border. Would the USA allow Mexico to put those weapons on the US border?
Rick aka Freedom_First(at)verizon(dot)net

Reacher51
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 2, 2022 11:28 am

Russia was never given an ironclad guarantee that NATO would not move one inch eastward of East Germany. If you believe that they were, then provide a link to the treaty on which that supposed ironclad guarantee was based. As far as I know, no such guarantee exists.

Ukrainian nuclear weapons were, however, real. Ukraine had the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal, in fact, which they voluntarily gave up for guarantees from Russia that Ukrainian territory and sovereignty would not be violated. Unlike the “ironclad guarantee” of no eastward NATO expansion you mention, the Russian guarantee of Ukrainian sovereignty actually exists. It was actually signed by the Russian government, on actual paper, and an actual publicly available record of it exists. Russia is in clear and actual violation of that actual agreement.

In addition to the fact that an actual, written guarantee outweighs a fictitious, non-existent guarantee (even a fictitious ironclad guarantee), there is the rather obvious point that Ukraine is not a member of NATO, has never received any indication that NATO would allow it to become a member, and has never had a nuclear missile from any NATO nation given to it or placed on its territory.

In other words, nothing you are saying makes any sense at all, and your defense of Russia sounds very much like the types of inane arguments that apologists vehemently made for Germany’s invasion of Sudetenland 85 years ago.

Last edited 3 months ago by Reacher51
willem post
Reply to  Reacher51
April 2, 2022 7:16 pm

New Evidence of Pledges Not to Expand NATO
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/the-plot-is-thickening-with-germany-and-france-no-longer-in

Germany’s Der Spiegel Asks: “Is Vladimir Putin Right Regarding NATO Expansion?
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/germanys-spiegel-asks-vladimir-putin-right-over-nato-expansion

The West promised not to expand NATO, beyond East Germany (the Oder River), according to a recently made-public document from the UK National Archives.

A newly discovered document from March 1991 shows US, UK, French, and German officials discussing a pledge made to Moscow that NATO would not expand to Poland and beyond. Its publication by the German magazine Der Spiegel on Friday comes as expansion of the US-led bloc has led to a military standoff in Eastern Europe. 

The minutes of a March 6, 1991 meeting in Bonn between political directors of the foreign ministries of the US, UK, France, and Germany contain multiple references to “2+4” talks on German unification in which the Western officials made it “clear” to the Soviet Union that NATO would not push into territory east of Germany. 

“We made it clear to the Soviet Union – in the 2+4 talks, as well as in other negotiations – that we do not intend to benefit from the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe”,the document quotes US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Canada Raymond Seitz.

“NATO should not expand to the east, either officially or unofficially,” Seitz added. 
A British representative also mentions the existence of a “general agreement” that membership of NATO for eastern European countries is “unacceptable.”

“We had made it clear during the 2+4 negotiations that we would not extend NATO beyond the Elbe [sic],” said West German diplomat Juergen Hrobog. “We could not therefore offer Poland and others membership in NATO.”

SEE URL
https://www.rt.com/news/549921-nato-expansion-russia-document/

NOTE: The UK has shut down RT, because its reporting was interfering with the Western gospel

Rick Jefferson
Reply to  Teddy Lee
April 1, 2022 5:07 pm

Yes. And now, the CIA puppet Zelensky wants them back. By the way, there are only two chances of that happening, Slim and ZERO. And, Slim is out of town.

Willem post
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 1, 2022 5:48 pm

During USSR days, Ukraine employed lots of scientists and engineers in its nuclear sector.

Those folks are still around

Chernobyl was primarily a research reactor for the USSR Defense Department. It did not have a containment vessel, as as is normal for a power reactor

MarkW
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 1, 2022 3:10 pm

Do you have any evidence that the US was planning on putting nuclear weapons on Russia’s border? Or is that just Putin’s latest talking point memo?

Objecting to Putin invading Ukraine and murdering civilians is bullying?

Have you ever tried to think for yourself?

Rick Jefferson
Reply to  MarkW
April 1, 2022 5:37 pm

Nuclear warheads can be put on many missiles. The US is the biggest bully in the world, constantly threatening other countries with invasions, sanctions, and embargos which are all acts of war. It is not Putin’s latest talking point. He has been saying it for twenty years. He has been politely asking and even pleading for a mutual security pact for TWENTY years. His days of asking are over. At least half the world, the global south, South America, Africa, mid east, far east are now telling the “exceptional nation” to take all their sanctions and bullying and shove them.

MarkW
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 2, 2022 9:07 am

You really have OD’d on the Kool-aide.

James Schrumpf
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 3, 2022 6:24 am

Silly to worry about weapons on the border when we’re talking about MIRV’d ICBMs.

Plus, doesn’t Russia have nukes on their borders already, or are you looking only in one direction?

Gerry, England
Reply to  Ted
April 1, 2022 6:42 am

You have to include the EU as one of the instigators of the Ukraine war given their expansionist agenda and the millions they poured into pro-EU groups in Ukraine that resulted in the removal of an elected president. This kicked off the 2014 civil war in which the US, NATO and EU supported the new regime.

Willem post
Reply to  Gerry, England
April 1, 2022 5:58 pm

The EU was very supportive of the recent failed color revolution in Belarus, because Belarus produces a lot of ingredients for fertilizer, which are needed by the EU

The EU would have exported its goods and services to pay for the ingredients, as it does with Russia

Right now, the EU is exporting nothing to Russia
Russia will have a huge trade surplus selling gas and oil at high prices.

Ukraine exports almost all of its grain production not to the EU, but to other countries, because the EU wants to protect its existing, highly subsidized farm communities

JamesD
Reply to  Ted
April 1, 2022 8:36 am

Do some research on the Minsk agreement.

willem post
Reply to  Ted
April 1, 2022 8:39 am

NATO, a US/UK Handmaiden to Pressure, Contain, Diminish Russia

The US/UK combo has used NATO to advance US/UK policy goals to pressure, contain, diminish, demonize, first the USSR, then Russia, which is unlike the USSR, but has been demonized just the same.

The US/UK policies do not serve the policy interests of the EU, which aim to gain power/influence by means of profitable international trade, instead of military muscle-flexing. 
As a result, only a few NATO members fulfill their promise to spend at least 2% of GDP on their military defense.

The US/UK has almost no trade relations with Russia
France, Germany, Italy, etc., have major trade relations with Russia that are very profitable
Sanctions on Russia, eagerly imposed by the US/UK, and reluctantly imposed by the EU, have had little adverse impact on the US/UK, but major adverse impacts on the EU.

Russia’s response to sanctions has been countersanctions, and adaptations to minimize adverse effects of sanctions, including closer military and commercial alliances with China and India.
The adaptations have improved the diversity, independence and efficiency of the Russian economy.

NATO’s military infrastructure expansions into east Europe and the Caucasus since 1999 may have increased European security, but certainly diminished Russian security, in violation of the principle of indivisibility of security, per the Helsinki Agreements and the Russia-NATO Founding Act

NATO has a convenient policy, which states each sovereign country has a right to make its own security arrangements.
Russia is surrounded by sovereign countries, such as Belarus, Kazakhstan, etc.

Does that mean all these countries are fair game for US/UK-color-revolution-style regime change, so US/UK-led NATO can move its infrastructures even closer to Russian borders?

Failed Color Revolutions in Belarus and Kazakhstan

In 2021, Belarus had a color revolution, supported by Western-financed/influenced NGOs, fanning the flames of dissatisfaction, etc. 

In 2022, Kazakhstan suddenly had a color revolution, after the government raised energy prices. 
Those price increases may have been on purpose, to rouse the population, so organized groups could take over Kazakhstan’s government. Some government leaders were arrested on spying and treason charges, after the failed coup d’etat.

Russia had been monitoring Kazakhstan’s dealing with the West for years.
Here is Joe and Hunter Biden wheeling and dealing in Kazakhstan
https://nypost.com/2020/10/20/photo-biden-meets-hunters-alleged-partner-from-kazakhstan/

Russia had prepared what was needed to send up to 3,000 troops into Kazakhstan within about 2 to 3 days.
The Kazakhstan President invited Russia to help end the color revolution.

Blinken, et al., said he was surprised by Russia’s quick response, but “we will not give up on Kazakhstan.” 
It is on China’s trade route

There is a DOD bio laboratory in Almaty. Such DOD laboratories exist in other countries, including Ukraine

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10384151/Kazakhstan-denies-funded-bio-lab-seized-protesters-deaths-rise-164-bloody-riots.html
https://www.riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/modern-day-censorship/pentagon-doesnt-want-you-to-see-these-documents-about-biolabs-in-ukraine/

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Willem post
March 31, 2022 7:51 pm

“Russian polls indicate Putin’s approval rating is at 83%”

That’s funny.

Rick Jefferson
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 1, 2022 5:40 pm

His ratings are a hell of a lot higher than demented Joes

MarkW
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 2, 2022 9:07 am

If demented Joe routinely killed anyone who displeased him, his poll numbers would be higher.

LdB
Reply to  Willem post
March 31, 2022 8:56 pm

I am surprised it’s only 83% for real belief you need 97% it’s the magic number and a tipping point.

willem post
Reply to  LdB
April 1, 2022 8:28 am

The 97% is RESERVED for the SCIENTISTS who agitated for whatever.
All other percentages are fair game.

Teddy Lee
Reply to  Willem post
April 1, 2022 3:24 am

Having trouble with reality Wp?
Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, again in 2022. Russia has also invaded Georgia and Chechnya.
Whether Putin gets 100% approval or not is bloody irrelevant .They are the aggressors.
UKRAINE DID NOT INVADE RUSSIA!!!!!!

willem post
Reply to  Teddy Lee
April 1, 2022 8:36 am

NATO invaded Ukraine, set up training camps, with rah-rah weapons, and trained 85,000 eager-beaver locals, and soldiers from other NATO countries, and is supplying lethal weapons so more of Ukraine gets destroyed and more people get killed.

Ukraine will be TOTALLY ruined with 10 million refugees all over Europe, at $10,000 each.

Europe will have huge inflation, and a major recession, and high unemployment, the price of listening to the US and UK
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/the-plot-is-thickening-with-germany-and-france-no-longer-in

MarkW
Reply to  willem post
April 1, 2022 3:15 pm

Like most trolls, your use of words is quite inventive.
NATO invaded the Ukraine, but Russia is merely rescuing it.

I can’t tell if you really are this delusional, or if your hatred of all things non-Putin just makes you seem that way.

Rick Jefferson
Reply to  MarkW
April 1, 2022 5:50 pm

Russia is finally telling the “indispensable” and “exceptional” nation to bacdafucup.

MarkW
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 2, 2022 9:08 am

I love how Putin’s trolls actually believe that Russia has a right to invade any country that doesn’t do exactly what Putin tells them to do.

Rick Jefferson
Reply to  Teddy Lee
April 1, 2022 5:45 pm

It was the CIA who invaded Ukraine in 2014. The USA are the aggressors and many Ukrainians are too stupid to know that they are being used as cannon fodder.

MarkW
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 2, 2022 9:09 am

The CIA. Are you as delusional as you sound?

willem post
Reply to  Rick Jefferson
April 2, 2022 9:13 am

Rick,
Not stupid, just misinformed/brainwashed, as they were in 2014, with all sorts of EU and US promises, made or implied, which came to nothing, because 8 years later, Ukraine is still poorest in Europe, BY FAR

AndyHce
Reply to  Tom Halla
March 31, 2022 10:26 pm

Have you not noticed that they, at least in the US, are fighting tooth and nail to make sure they have the means to overcome any attempt to vote them out?

Reply to  Tom Halla
April 1, 2022 1:32 am

Meanwhile, in Australia, The Australian’s Business Review (admittedly dated 1 April), has an article headed “First step in Liddell plant closure”.

Unfortunately this has been on the cards ever since 2017, so I regret that this is not an April Fool joke.

As a Liberal (a real Liberal not one of the US liberals) I must confess that the only solution appears that the Commonwealth should nationalize the power station. Public ownership anathema to Liberals, but when private enterprise will not keep the power station up to date and in good order, the only solution is the State.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Dudley Horscroft
April 1, 2022 4:06 am

You sound like a US liberal.

MarkW
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
April 1, 2022 3:17 pm

Government ownership isn’t liberal, it’s communist.

Megs
Reply to  MarkW
April 1, 2022 5:18 pm

The political situation in Australia has become quite unique. The two party system has broken down in that our Liberal Party, which is or was, similar to America’s traditional Republican party has moved so far left that it is unrecognisable. Our other major party, the Labor Party may as well be called the Greens and represents all things far left.

Under John Howard, a Liberal Prime Minister, our government had paid off a huge debt and accumulated a massive surplus. Then very clever marketing and advertising paid for by unions convinced the population that it was time for a change. The Labor Party were voted in and the surplus was gone in less than a year.

The current government is Liberal, but looking at political leadership globally I don’t believe that any of them represent their people, certainly ours doesn’t. Our debt I believe is around a trillion dollars. Pretty impressive for a population of less than 26 million.

Most of our government representatives seem to be career politicians and as such, to put it in colloquial terms, couldn’t run a chook raffle. To describe our major assets as being privately owned is a little misleading. One of our largest energy retailers for instance is wholly owned by China. Ironically the name of the company is Energy Australia. This same country also owns a number of our coal mines, so of course carbon credits come into play when they shut them down, and the obvious next step is that they will supply us with renewables to replace the lost energy source. They, along with many other nations also own renewables infrastructure right across Australia. They also have ownership or major interests in ports, water, private land and residences. The list is long.

Being a small population spread over a vast continent makes it harder for us to keep up with the ‘big boys’. It also means that we have fewer elite billionaire Australians who could afford to buy our assets. The ones we do have are predominantly more interested in jumping on the renewables bandwagon.

So, I would prefer that our infrastructure was under our government’s control, as opposed to the control of a communist regime. Won’t be long though, we don’t have nuclear and we blow up our coal-fired power plants. Who will come to our rescue when our energy crisis hits? Not hard to figure that one out.

MarkW
Reply to  Dudley Horscroft
April 1, 2022 3:17 pm

Fascinating how to liberals, the solution to every problem caused by government, is always more government.

Government policies make it impossible to operate at a profit. The solution, let’s just have government steal it, then really run it into the ground.

Editor
March 31, 2022 10:10 am

Eric, typo alert in the second to last sentence: “The once chance your politicians have to redeem themselves for decades of policy failures is to make this right.” 

Should “once” be one?

Regards,
Bob

PS: At least it’s easy to fix. I hated my typos in the graphs I prepared. Grrrrr.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
March 31, 2022 11:24 am

I hate making typos also, but sometimes they can be humorous.
From a church bulletin board —
For sale: Buick Regal with curse control. 😎

H. D. Hoese
Reply to  Gunga Din
March 31, 2022 12:51 pm

For some of these new vehicles which require a ‘flight engineer’ and scream at you not a typo.

HOJO
March 31, 2022 10:18 am

The masses have zero say in the future of Europe. How can such an easy subject to research be the downfall of us humans, Stop watching TV, go local and begin again from scratch making something that will work and not some utopian dream which is complete nonsense

Spetzer86
Reply to  HOJO
March 31, 2022 11:11 am

Even the YT people are getting in on the act. Tim Pool was pushing wind and solar today.

Reply to  Spetzer86
April 1, 2022 12:18 am

Tim Pool in the Low IQ group.

John Larson
Reply to  Eric Simpson
April 1, 2022 2:50 am

Tim is not low IQ, he’s just low strategic thinking. I suspect it’s because his “sport” was skateboarding. No one trying to stop you from performing your moves, and no teamwork involved. We’ll just get better at what we want to work, (“renewbles”) and as he put it; “then we get all the climate change people on board”. (He thinks that’s going to be a force multiplier or something ; )

Last edited 3 months ago by John Larson
Tee Shanny
Reply to  HOJO
March 31, 2022 12:29 pm

Indeed, WHAT ARE Fox, OANN, The Blaze (aptly named for an organization incessantly spewing pants-on-fire 🔥lies while helping to burn down the planet🤣🤣🤣), NewsMax and other GOP/corporate shill/faux news afraid of? Inconvenient Truths? CLEARLY.

I say this often about idiot tDUMPist CONNEDservatives who believe in the Orange Moron’s counted 22,000 lies (merely those in office!) and GOP’s unending, 100% bullshit claims. Soooo stupid, even discounting the Big Fascistic Lie that Joe Biden “stole” the 2020 election, leading to Trumpedict Arnold’s attempted govt. overthrow on Jan. 6th.

Sudden turnabouts to real, fact-based logical debate is as rare as bandersnatches and dodos among most WUWT fossil-fuel-pollution apologists. So they’re funny 😁!

Wow–NOW, after centuries of continuing corruption, bvllsh1t and ignorance, they suddenly want to base debates on facts! WE SANE LIBS, JOURNALISTS AND SCIENTISTS WELCOME IT! Bring it, so we can destroy your arguments on a level playing field (insofar as intelligence versus mundane, pseudointellectual cherry-picking can be a “level field”) — this time without the hilarity we typically enjoy during CONNEDservatives’ peurile games.

Everyone sane who doesn’t ignore pertinent research knows the world’s path on fossil fuels is UNSUSTAINABLE and has already led to irreversible damaging climate change effects, like ocean rises, coastal erosion, habitat destruction and so much more.

The REAL issue is the foot-dragging obstruction and lies by ignorant and/or fossil-fuel-bought politicians, mostly by the selfish, corrupt, lying US GOP, which has always been a huge, ugly, corrupt and ridiculously uninformed TOOL of the fossil fuel industry.
(Remember corrupt moron Rep. James Inhofe🤡🤡🤡 throwing a snowball in Congress, believing he was mocking the reality of climate change, based on *that day’s* colder weather?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Like most GOPtards, he’s confused about the most elementary aspects of reality, let alone advanced science, because he reads about it only in 3000-year-old, 100% hearsay, biased, highly edited and rewritten books absent of science or even history.)

Like, my p3n1s: a tool for obtaining and giving pleasure, but it’s a natural one attached to my body, not an artificial one who steals money from the American public to sell them lies and support American corporations with corporate welfare they don’t need because they are already super rich, are and have been grossly, criminally underpaying workers for decades, and sitting on gobs and gobs of cash.

Bob
Reply to  Tee Shanny
March 31, 2022 12:47 pm

If Tee Shanny is the best they have we don’t have anything to worry about.

MarkW
Reply to  Bob
March 31, 2022 12:59 pm

I have no doubt that TS considers itself to be the brightest bulb on the block.

Richard Page
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 3:47 pm

I could feel my IQ lowering just by reading that steaming pile of written diarrhoea. Are 6 year old’s really allowed on the internet these days?

Jtom
Reply to  Bob
March 31, 2022 6:09 pm

Don’t discourage him. Only Kamala and A O-C are better examples of the low IQs of liberals.

Martin Pinder
Reply to  Tee Shanny
March 31, 2022 1:01 pm

Rubbish.

The Dark Lord
Reply to  Tee Shanny
March 31, 2022 2:01 pm

off your meds again I see …

Andrew Wilkins
Reply to  Tee Shanny
March 31, 2022 2:50 pm

There was me thinking no one could be dafter than Griff, and then up pops Tee Shanny.

Streetcred
Reply to  Tee Shanny
March 31, 2022 3:18 pm

WOW ! You have a p3n1s ? Who would have thought !? Sounds like you broke it off long ago.

Richard Page
Reply to  Streetcred
March 31, 2022 3:48 pm

I had a panini once, does that count?

Dean
Reply to  Streetcred
March 31, 2022 11:40 pm

It must have taken him a very long time to type that drivel with one hand…….

William Rickards
Reply to  Tee Shanny
March 31, 2022 4:02 pm

Hmm? Typical rambling post with zero science or common sense from TS – no worries mate 😉

Geoff Sherrington
Reply to  Tee Shanny
March 31, 2022 4:19 pm

Tee Shanny,
Re your p3n1s.
You should be pleased that you and other ladies now have the option of owning one. Thanks to the wisdom of amazing, progressive Dems,
Geoff S

Jason
Reply to  Tee Shanny
March 31, 2022 5:37 pm

So you are lauding the group of geniuses who openly and actively tell the oil and gas industry that they are going to shut down their evil enterprises and remove their evil products from the market. Shutting down pipelines, denying permits, imposing regulations that make production more difficult and expensive, and further adding financial regulations that choke capital to these ventures….and then complain and wonder why gas prices have gone up?

These people either have no idea how free economies work, or are blatantly lying. Quite frankly we know that is mostly the later of the two. And there lies the big problem we all have with “ends justify the means” progressive left. Continuously being knowingly dishonest, but justified because they know what best for all of us plebeians. That is what angers us most, that this “climate crisis” has nothing to do with the climate at all, it is about knowingly crushing the economy and creating shortages that need to be controlled and rationed so that a controlled (Marxist utopian) economy and society can take its place.

I’ll leave you with the words of C.S. Lewis who put it much more eloquently.

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

StephenP
Reply to  Jason
April 1, 2022 7:35 am

Who has paid for or lent money to the Nordstream 2 pipeline?
It seems to have been a great waste of money that could have been better spent on fracking and SMR development.

Teddy Lee
Reply to  Tee Shanny
April 1, 2022 3:36 am

So sorry for your condition.Hope your are able to obtain the treatment for you condition.
Try to rest and don’t forget stay out of the playground.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Tee Shanny
April 1, 2022 4:16 am

My vote is that the moderators ban Tee Shanny. This is not intelligent conversation.

Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
April 1, 2022 8:17 am

My vote is that the moderators ban Tee Shanny.

Yesterday, I stated my disagreement with that action.

Today, after seeing reams of blathering incoherent nonsense, I’m not so sure.

MarkW
Reply to  TonyG
April 1, 2022 3:19 pm

I’ll repeat my position from yesterday. Don’t ban him, just limit his to 2 or 3 drivels per day. Also a line limit as well.

Reply to  HOJO
March 31, 2022 9:24 pm

Told you so 20 years ago. Some of it was easy (calling out global warming, aka climate change, and green energy scams), some (global cooling, starting circa 2020) was not.

In 2002 we published that there was no real global warming crisis and green energy was not green and produced little useful (dispatchable) energy. We also correctly predicted in 2002 that solar-driven global cooling would start now, and that does appear to be happening. We further predicted in detail in 2013 the current green energy crisis in Britain, Germany, etc. These are, to my knowledge, the best (earliest and most accurate) predictions of our current climate-and-energy disaster.
 
We should finally recognize just how incredibly stupid and corrupt our political (and media and industry) leaders truly are – like the average fool-in-the-street, they have negative technical competence and believe any improbable falsehoods, provided these are repeated often over time. It does not matter how improbable these falsehoods are – they are swallowed whole and regurgitated for public consumption, to our great detriment.
 
Anyone who promotes human-made global warming, climate change, grid-connected green energy, carbon taxes, etc is spreading falsehoods that will cause you and your family great harm. They have already cost humanity trillions of wasted dollars and millions of wasted lives due to energy starvation. They should be held responsible for their crimes against humanity.

I suggest that the current energy debacle in Europe is not an error, it is part of the Plan – the “Great Reset” of the WEF and associated scoundrels to establish their New World Order. So many of the “world leaders” who created this green energy scam are graduates of the WEF “young leaders” programs – they all spout the same green woke falsehoods and all promote dysfunctional green energy policies that never worked and never were intended to work.

The WEF objective is to cripple economies, reduce populations, and create a slave-class that they can rule – because to be kings, you need lots of peasants.

“Can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs.”
“Ne saurait faire d’omelette sans casser des œufs”
– François de Charette, France 1700’s

My colleagues and I are not only concerned about energy shortages, which we predicted decades ago. We are concerned about inflation and food shortages, and are watching that situation closely.

Welcome to the New World Order – “You’ll own nothing, but you WON’T be happy”.

Last edited 3 months ago by Allan MacRae
John Garrett
March 31, 2022 10:21 am

(NPR) Widespread sanctions against Russia means Germany must look elsewhere for energy
Germany relies on Russia for around half its natural gas and its companies do extensive business with both Russia and Ukraine. The effects of those ties fraying is being felt on the ground in Germany.

AILSA CHANG, HOST:

Russia’s war with Ukraine and the international sanctions that followed have had massive consequences for the global economy. Case in point, Germany. The country relies on Russia for around half its natural gas, and German companies do billions of dollars’ worth of business with both Russia and Ukraine. As NPR’s Rob Schmitz reports, the pain is already being felt on the ground.

ROB SCHMITZ, BYLINE: At an iron foundry outside Dusseldorf, a crane holding a 30-ton bucket gently tips it on its side, releasing a torrent of bright yellow molten iron. Waves of heat rise from the bubbling, splattering liquid as it shoots out sparks of magnesium over workers dressed head to toe in silver heat-shielded uniforms. Below them, the glowing magma fills a mold for what will become an iron tile press machine, says Georg Geier, managing director of Siempelkamp, the company that runs his foundry.

GEORG GEIER: It’s like 1,300 degrees Celsius. That’s what makes our business so energy-intensive.

SCHMITZ: It takes 50 gigawatts of electricity per year to keep Siempelkamp’s induction furnaces running, equivalent to the electricity needed to power a town of 20,000 people. Midsize companies like Siempelkamp, known as Mittelstand companies in German, make up the backbone of Germany’s economy, employing 60% of the country’s workers. And they’re highly susceptible to the skyrocketing price of energy caused by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. For years, the price Siempelkamp paid for one megawatt hour was around 40 euros.

GEIER: At the beginning of last week, it was nearly 300 euros. So that means nearly 10 times of what we saw for years and years before…

more: https://www.npr.org/2022/03/30/1089774472/widespread-sanctions-against-russia-means-germany-must-look-elsewhere-for-energy

Scissor
Reply to  John Garrett
March 31, 2022 2:03 pm

I’m trying to understand how molten iron shoots out sparks of magnesium, unless a magnesium containing additive was added to the iron.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Scissor
March 31, 2022 2:46 pm

When I was consulting in Germany, I led a case on ‘gieserielegierende’ (foundry alloy additives). They are made in electric arc furnaces, and can be quite complex. My Bavarian client owned the most electric arc furnaces in Germany because they owned the Alpine hydropower originally built by Hitler for the Third Reich war effort. The ferrosilicate class of cast iron ‘nodulizers’ often contain magnesium.

Scissor
Reply to  Rud Istvan
March 31, 2022 3:00 pm

Thanks. I guessed it had to be something like that.

roger
Reply to  Scissor
March 31, 2022 4:00 pm

see Vesuvius PLC UK company supplying such flow agents in enormous quantities

R Taylor
Reply to  Rud Istvan
March 31, 2022 4:09 pm

After giving up on this deteriorating thread, I went back to see who was the first to mention Hitler.

David Stone CEng
Reply to  Scissor
April 1, 2022 6:09 am

He is using a metaphor for the way Iron burns under these conditions, being seen as rather powerful sparks.. A little technical knowledge goes a long way!

Bill
Reply to  John Garrett
March 31, 2022 2:08 pm

The psychopaths, child abusers, organized criminals, and general fools are in charge of everything. This will only stop one way, we have to stop it. It starts with wrestling the school system away from these Marxists. They abuse our children, steal the community’s resources, pit one set of parents against the other (ever heard of “my school district is good”? – it’s really not!), and generally transfer wealth away from our communities. In the State of WA we pay about $.10/kWh for electricity. If we allow the abusers to continue to run this state they’ll close down all dams to save the salmon and we’ll be like CA, paying $.24/kWh. And, that’s just the beginning. In Europe they’re paying $.30-.$40/kWh and, as we can read most anywhere, it will only get worse. God save us all from ourselves.

Alan Millar
March 31, 2022 10:22 am

The EU are funding Russia by a billion Euros a DAY, paying for its self inflicted addiction to Russian gas, oil and coal. Germany is just the worst of the major nations.

The EU ‘sanctions’ are a joke. Yes they sanctioned Russian banks ……………………………..apart from two! Meaning payments can continue to flow as before but just through two banks instead of several.

So they also restricted Russia’s access to its built up foreign exchange reserves. How clever!
Well it was until Putin, utterly predictably, said ‘ok, you must pay in Roubles from April instead’

Well who could have seen that coming. The EU and Germany are currently making noises like ‘we will not submit to blackmail’. Yeah right!

Putin, having manoeuvred the EU into reliance on Russian energy, probably figured out that EU were reduced to a threat of ‘stop your actions in Ukraine or we will commit economic suicide’. Probably though he didn’t really think that was a credible threat.

So who will blink first? Will it be Russia? Why would he do that he has the EU by the short and curlies and both sides know it.

Perhaps Germany and others, will indeed start closing huge swathes of their industries down, start cutting citizens access to energy (it snowed at my house in the UK today)

What’s the betting?

richard
Reply to  Alan Millar
March 31, 2022 11:24 am

Russia is getting stronger- https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/ruble-regains-100-its-loss-after-russia-invaded-ukraine-why

Russia’s trade surplus is 20 billion a month. 75% of this trade is with countries that have not embargoed , Russia.

Last edited 3 months ago by richard
ResourceGuy
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 8:30 am

A trade surplus does make up for a falling knife. The Russian economy (in total) is going into a deep recession of more than 10% down.

richard
Reply to  ResourceGuy
April 1, 2022 9:25 am

I would worry more about the countries printing “fake” money- this is not going to end well.

Derg
Reply to  Alan Millar
March 31, 2022 2:00 pm

It’s hard to sanction something that is needed by humanity.

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Alan Millar
March 31, 2022 5:35 pm

Yet clearly Putin has understood that piling up bank balances in euros isn’t helping him to pay any bills either at home or abroad. Hence his demand for payment in roubles, which at least can be used to pay the troops. Of course, there is a nice question as to how those roubles would be acquired – someone would be paid in euros to offer the roubles in exchange. The other question is whether the ruse is in fact a disguised price increase. Much depends on the exchange rate offered by the forex deal versus the exchange rate deemed to apply to converting the euro price of gas to a rouble price.

Nick Graves
Reply to  It doesn't add up...
April 1, 2022 12:27 am

I believe the plan is probably quite straightforward…

No Rubles? Pity. Do you have gold reserves?

Good – give us your gold, here’s some Rubles for it.

Would you like some oil or gas?

Please pay in Rubles. Yuan & Rupees also accepted…

This creates a quasi- gold/oil-backed Ruble and the increased demand should raise its exchange rate.

It also begins to undermine the fiat Petrodollar’s exchange rate and its world currency reserve status is threatened.

It all seems terribly clever to me.

Mr.
March 31, 2022 10:25 am

A typical European politician pondering whether to admit that their support for renewables was a mistake –

“Lemee see –
A) admit a mistake = bad publicity!
OR
B) 657,000 people dying of cold here every year now. What’s a few thousand more?

No contest – I’ll go with B)”

Willem post
Reply to  Mr.
March 31, 2022 2:59 pm

Politicians know you do not get re-elected by admitting mistakes
Politicians know doubling down and hype failed programs, with other people’s money, is the way to go to cement a CAREER IN POLITICS

Last edited 3 months ago by Willem post
Richard Page
Reply to  Willem post
March 31, 2022 3:52 pm

Also politicians realise that dead people (usually) don’t vote – it’s the live ones they have to keep sweet.

Nick Graves
Reply to  Willem post
April 1, 2022 12:29 am

That’s what concerns me:

No more Russkie gas – we’ll build MOAR WINDMILLS.

Reply to  Willem post
April 1, 2022 8:21 am

“doubling down and hype failed programs, with other people’s money”

Yep
“We haven’t done enough, we need to do more!”

Steve Case
March 31, 2022 10:28 am

 Because if that Russian gas supply goes down in winter,…
_______________________________________________

siege 
/sēj/
noun
A military operation in which enemy forces surround a town
or building, cutting off essential supplies, with the aim of
compelling the surrender of those inside.

Robert of Texas
March 31, 2022 10:38 am

You can’t fix “stupid”, and “stupid” has a high price tag.

You CAN, however, vote “stupid” out of office.

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Robert of Texas
March 31, 2022 12:11 pm

You have to have an alternative to vote in. The UK does not have an option that is not committed to the renewable myth.

The only solution may be resorting to the lamp-post and rope solution.

Martin Pinder
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
March 31, 2022 1:11 pm

À la lanterne?

BobM
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
March 31, 2022 3:55 pm

I really don’t understand that (the UK does not have an option). Is there nobody standing up and saying, “OK, enough is enough. I’m running against the stupid so-and-so that got us here”???

Richard Page
Reply to  BobM
March 31, 2022 4:31 pm

No. The 3 main parties operate a fairly closed shop and monopolise the propaganda franchises.

Nick Graves
Reply to  Richard Page
April 1, 2022 12:36 am

True. Well, two parties in effect.

We also have the ‘first past post’ voting system, which sets the bar very high for The Sensible Party candidates to even get into the house, without ‘handing’ that ‘seat’ to the alternative Silly or Very Silly Party candidate by splitting the vote.

It’d take a massive shift in public opinion before the established parties change their tune – even then, I suspect they’d merely gaslight the sheeple.

Michael in Dublin
March 31, 2022 10:59 am

Not only energy.
Notices have gone up of people only allowed one packet of flour per customer.

Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 11:03 am

I am German and I trust Putin more than the US-government. Remember how USA killed million people for oil. https://youtube.com/shorts/1T5JRVR53Eo?feature=share
I think USA is a warmonger.

Matthew Schilling
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 11:07 am

We’re still 23 years away from the soonest I will be interested in being lectured by a German about war or mass murder.

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  Matthew Schilling
March 31, 2022 12:48 pm

You might want to work on your collective guilt analogy. For example, it might be good to know why 12 FBI agents immediately showed up to check out a garage door opener, while there’s been absolutely no investigation by the same organization into Hunter’s laptop. It’s not like a prospective FBI ‘whistleblower’ would be risking a bullet, or a one-way ticket to the camps, for asking the question.

Matthew Schilling
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
March 31, 2022 12:50 pm

What the… are you okay? Is there someone nearby who can check on you?

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  Matthew Schilling
March 31, 2022 1:46 pm

Thanks for your feigned concern, Matt! From your Yahoo! type response, it’s clear my comment went over your head. But if you do feel the need to respond, maybe you can let me know if there’s any aspect of the Federal government’s policies you disagree with. Examples might include, say, energy or climate change. And if that’s not too much of a hurdle, maybe you could recognize that our foreign policies might not always be altruistic or well conceived either.

Richard Page
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
March 31, 2022 3:56 pm

Or entirely rational – you forgot that one! Or completely non-existent judging by a former UK foreign secretary, now husband of our first unelected PM!

Derg
Reply to  Matthew Schilling
March 31, 2022 2:04 pm

Don’t forget those poor parents of the USA gymnastics team members who pleaded with the FBI to investigate the Groping Dr

Scissor
Reply to  Derg
March 31, 2022 3:01 pm

There are too many stories like this out there. The FBI is unusually corrupt these days.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Scissor
April 1, 2022 5:13 am

I’ve been assured by someone at the working level of federal law enforcement that the field agents are trying to do the right thing but the political upper management is corrupt.

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
April 1, 2022 5:50 am

That’s Hannity’s schtick. Again, If there’s no one in the FBI willing to risk their pension, as opposed to their life, to expose wrong doing, we’re lost.

Peter Müller
Reply to  Matthew Schilling
March 31, 2022 2:11 pm

You judge a person by his home country? Interesting.
Can you tell me where the native americans are?

Scissor
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 3:06 pm

Are you not doing the same?

I get the feeling you wish to judge based on some kind of moral equivalency ledger.

The facts are that man’s inhumanity to man is nothing new and a child is not responsible for his father’s sins, though he may benefit or suffer from it.

Old Retired Guy
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 3:37 pm

Europeans have been fighting for millenia. And the “native americans” were killed and displaced by Europeans who were relatively recent immigrants to the US. One of the biggest ethnic groups was German, including my ancestors.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 4:54 pm

Some of them were running the casino I just went to this
week. Usually when a nation is conquered there are no
survivors, but in this rare instance, there are some. How
many Europeans would have survived if the Natives were
technologically superior & conquered them?

BTW, all of my ancestors came from Germany, the last ones
about 130 yrs ago. So Germans were part of the “European
Invasion”.

Peter Müller
Reply to  Matthew Schilling
March 31, 2022 2:44 pm

Do you know that there is a war in Ukraine since 2014. Soros and Nuland change the regime in Ukraine. Since then USA support NAZI-Troops (which fight together with Hitler) called Asov. It is all about power. USA want more power and therefore they support IS in Syria and Nazi in Ukraine. German Neo-Nazi and Ukraine troops met in Germany many times (e.g. in Halle): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKcmNGvaDUs

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 4:37 pm

You might want to read “Follow the Money” by Dan
Bongino. It gets into the corrupt Soros-Nuland-Biden
connections in Ukraine & elsewhere. These are all
internationalists who want more power for themselves,
not necessarily for the US. Our Ukraine policy is heavily
influenced by the Biden Crime Family scandals.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Old Man Winter
March 31, 2022 8:14 pm

Thanks for the book tip. I’ve been looking for some information on what Obama and Biden and others were up to in Ukraine.

Kevin Hilde
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 4:53 pm

Is that you, Mr Dugin?

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Peter Müller
April 1, 2022 4:29 am

If they fought with the Nazis they must be pretty old. I doubt if they could stop the Russians so easily.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Peter Müller
April 1, 2022 6:45 am

As I understand it the Asov battalion numbers about 1000 troops out of nearly 100,000 Ukrainian troops and the far right nasty who set them up no longer leads them. So they are a very minor component.

MarkW
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 11:46 am

It’s amazing how people are so good at remembering things that never happened.
Especially when those things align with what they are paid to believe.
I’m not going to waste time on his youtube, but this sounds like the standard communist lies about Iraq.

Death toll was at least 3 or 4 magnitudes lower than that.
It was never about oil. Had it been about oil, the US would have kept it, instead of giving it to the Iraqi people.

Last edited 3 months ago by MarkW
Peter Fraser
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 12:16 pm

It certainly was not about weapons of mass destruction as was claimed to convince the American and British masses to support the second Iraq invasion.

MarkW
Reply to  Peter Fraser
March 31, 2022 1:01 pm

Actually it was, and both WMDs and WMD programs were found.
Of course, much like Hunter Biden’s laptop, the truth was buried by those who didn’t want to know it.

richard
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 1:14 pm

could we see a link for that- Scott Ritter , the UN weapons inspector, never found any.

Last edited 3 months ago by richard
Mr.
Reply to  richard
March 31, 2022 2:18 pm

As UN weapons inspectors were reporting in 1998, they were being continually refused and physically blocked from accessing the targeted suspect WMD storage sites.

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2002-10/features/iraq-chronology-un-inspections

Their suspicions were that these Iraqi tactics were intended to give them time to relocate their WMD, which Saddam had openly claimed he possessed.

MarkW
Reply to  richard
March 31, 2022 5:14 pm

Scott Ritter only looked prior to the war.

richard
Reply to  MarkW
April 1, 2022 2:31 am

were any WMDs used in the war?

Richard Page
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 1:19 pm

Not really. There were some chemical shells used in the Iran/Iraq war and gas used against Kurdish villages but I’m not sure how that was delivered. Saddam Hussein may also have used gas against the Marsh Arabs in Iraq but not 100% on the specifics. The Iraqi’s did fire a few ss-21 scuds during the gulf war with conventional HE warheads but I can only remember one incident of a scud being fired in the Iraq war, again with a conventional warhead which (I think) failed to detonate – not 100% on that though.

Peter Müller
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 1:58 pm

Irak has only weapons that George Bush sen. send them.

Scissor
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 2:22 pm

So are a Saddam apologist too?

MarkW
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 5:23 pm

Do you have any evidence of that, or is that just what the latest Russian memo tells you to say?

Crisp
Reply to  Peter Müller
April 1, 2022 4:52 am

Bush sent Saddam SCUD missiles? And chemical weapons? Fascinating stuff. Tell us more secrets that you seem privy to.

Willem post
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 3:03 pm

There were no WMDs, but after a while there were plenty of IEDs, in Iraq; improvised explosive devices,IEDs

MarkW
Reply to  Willem post
March 31, 2022 5:24 pm

There were, but you will never admit it.

aussiecol
Reply to  Willem post
April 1, 2022 12:32 am

Is poison gas a WMD???

Richard Page
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 4:49 pm

We’re not still doing the WMD’s thing again, are we?
Let’s get 1 thing clear – there were WMD’s found in Iraq; they were all, I repeat all, relics of the Iran/Iraq war, all were corroded, useless, most were leaking, and all the shells (not contents) were of US manufacture.
During the cold war the US supplied gas shells (empty) to NATO countries to be filled and used against the Soviets in a potential war; it became clear that no country wanted to use them and large quantities were sold on by those NATO countries (Italy and Spain among them) to Iraq, with tacit US approval. Iraq filled them with product from its own program, used some and the remainder were buried in the desert or beneath remote collapsed buildings. There were accounts of US soldiers during the iraq war removing these relics and disposing of them but most accounts were hushed up as the USA really didn’t want it to be common knowledge that they and NATO had supplied Saddam Hussein with the means to deliver gas to Iranian and Kurdish victims. There were no WMD’s found in Iraq of recent manufacture – all of them had been in the ground for about 15 years or more.

Last edited 3 months ago by Richard Page
MarkW
Reply to  Richard Page
March 31, 2022 5:25 pm

I said WMDs were found, despite claims that there weren’t any.
WND programs were also found, ready to be restarted as soon as the sanctions regime was lifted.

Ted
Reply to  Richard Page
March 31, 2022 6:59 pm

There were over 500 rounds of very active, usable WMD’s found in Iraq at numerous locations after 2003, all of which Iraq claimed did not exist. Seperately there was over 400 tons of yellowcake uranium removed, the same stuff Joe Wilson reported that Iraq was trying to acquire.

ex-KaliforniaKook
Reply to  Ted
April 1, 2022 9:05 am

The yellowcake was removed to Canada after Iraq fell. Just a detail. Not much coverage. AOC (and most of her party) wondered why Betty Crocker had so much product in Iraq.

MarkW
Reply to  ex-KaliforniaKook
April 1, 2022 3:23 pm

He was trying to buy more.

Richard Page
Reply to  Ted
April 1, 2022 1:25 pm

The only accounts I’ve ever found about the gas shells found in Iraq referred to old corroded ones left over from the Iran/Iraq war which were more of a danger to the locals than anyone else. I’ve never come across any references to useable WMD’s being found in Iraq – I always assumed they shipped them over the border into Syria!

Richard Page
Reply to  Ted
April 1, 2022 1:35 pm

The yellowcake uranium found in Iraq had already been declared to the IAEA and was under their jurisdiction. The other case you are referring to is famously known as the Niger Uranium Forgeries – a set of forged documents purporting to show Saddam Hussein attempting to buy Uranium Yellowcake powder from Niger. Well worth taking a look at the articles on the forgeries, it makes fascinating reading.

Ted
Reply to  Richard Page
April 1, 2022 3:46 pm

What’s fascinating is the focus on the few forged documents, when both the Washington Post coverage of Joe Wilso’s actual report and several European intellience agencies agreed that Niger was actively engaging with Iraq and other countries to trade in uranium.

Richard Page
Reply to  Ted
April 2, 2022 5:47 am

The overwhelming opinion was that there was no trade with Niger – the conduit for the forgeries was the Italian intelligence service but it was the UK intelligence committee, under Blair, that used the forged and discredited information as definitive proof of trade. The narrative was a tissue of lies and forgeries designed to support a position for intervention – where have we seen the exact same tactic used in climate change disinformation?

richard
Reply to  Richard Page
April 1, 2022 2:32 am

The UK weapons inspector didn’t find any WMDs either. Blair is now called a war criminal for his involvement.

Richard Page
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 2:55 pm

Blair is called that for his and Labour’s part in the Niger forgeries – calling for war on the basis of information that was known to be questionable at best and outright forgeries at worst. The fact that the information they based their case on was a forgery has pretty much condemned him.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Peter Fraser
April 1, 2022 4:32 am

Not only did the British and Americans think that Iraq had WMDs, Saddam Hussein thought he had large numbers of WMDs. There were some found but it appears that Saddam’s minions were not quite truthful to the boss when they reported how their programs were going.

ex-KaliforniaKook
Reply to  Peter Fraser
April 1, 2022 8:42 am

How quickly we forget the WMDs Iraq used quite effectively against the Iranians and the Kurds.

Or maybe you really did fall off the turnip truck yesterday?

richard
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 12:51 pm
richard
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 12:57 pm

“It was never about oil. Had it been about oil, the US would have kept it, instead of giving it to the Iraqi people”

“Although it has been referred to in many articles over the years, it is worth mentioning again retired NATO Secretary General Wesley Clark and a memo from the Office of the US Secretary of Defense that he was told about just a few weeks after 9/11.
It revealed plans to “attack and destroy the governments in seven countries in five years,” starting with Iraq and moving on to “Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran”. Clark argued this strategy is fundamentally about control of the region’s vast oil and gas resources.”

Last edited 3 months ago by richard
Tom Abbott
Reply to  richard
March 31, 2022 8:34 pm

“”retired NATO Secretary General Wesley Clark”

Clark is stupid enough to say something like that.

Clark also thought it was a good idea to attack Russian troops during the Kosovo war. Happily, a British general put a stop to Clark’s dangerous stupidity.

Never take any military advice from Wesley Clark.

Last edited 3 months ago by Tom Abbott
richard
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 1, 2022 2:35 am

Not the only one –
Lots of stupidity of NATO attacks in Yugoslavia, Syria etc. They never learn and it just causes instability in the end.

NATO destroying, bridges, hospitals, schools………

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 4:35 am

So are you saying that the US controls those seven countries but is hiding it very well?

richard
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
April 1, 2022 2:45 pm

not me – what is the reason behind this and was it legal – “It revealed plans to “attack and destroy the governments in seven countries in five years,” starting with Iraq and moving on to “Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran”.

have o

richard
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 1:01 pm

“Death toll was at least 3 or 4 magnitudes lower than that”

60 minutes- “Madeleine Albright – The deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children was worth it for Iraq’s non existent WMD’s”

Last edited 3 months ago by richard
Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 5:09 am

Two ignorant women discussing something they don’t understand. The finest journalism available in libtard land.

MarkW
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 7:28 am

Albright was the SecState for the Clinton administration, the one that preceeded the Bush administration. She had no more knowledge of what was actually going on in Iraq than did the reporter. She and her boss were largely responsible for the mess that Bush was cleaning up, and she was willing to do anything to undermine Bush.

60 Minutes has been little more than an arm of the DNC going back decades as well.

richard
Reply to  MarkW
April 1, 2022 2:54 pm

i wouldn’t disagree though we now understand the destruction inflicted and the chaos that has ensued and how the US thought it was worth it based on an illegal war.

Putin reacted the way experts in the field stated would happen NATO wise- self-fulfilling in the end you could say. Why would the west make guarantees regarding expansion of NATO and then break them again and again. Would you deal with some one who kept breaking their promise. Once bitten, twice shy springs to mind.

MarkW
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 3:25 pm

Nothing illegal about it.
The Gulf War ended in an armistice. Saddam broke the terms of the armistice, so the war resumed.

The fact that you work so hard to get such a basic fact completely wrong explains why you work so hard to get everything else wrong.

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 1:08 pm

‘Death toll was at least 3 or 4 magnitudes lower than that.’

Madeline Albright admitted to CBS that the death of 500K Iraqi kids during the no-fly zone period was ‘worth it’. Add in Gulf War I and II, and Herr Muller’s 1M estimate isn’t that far off.

‘It was never about oil.’

What was if about then? WMD? 9/11?

‘Had it been about oil, the US would have kept it, instead of giving it to the Iraqi people.’

That’s big of us. And how much blood and treasure did that cost us?

Sadam Hussein was an SOB, but he was our SOB as we were ok with Iraq bashing Iran. Unfortunately, when he ran out of money, he asked our State Department if he could deal with Kuwait’s slant drilling into the Rumania oil field and we gave him a green light.

Last edited 3 months ago by Frank from NoVA
D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
March 31, 2022 1:20 pm

Really, you’re going to lend credence to Madeline Notbright? I have a bridge to sell you…

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
March 31, 2022 1:53 pm

I think you’re missing the point. Would you have been happier if she had said a million kids, or would you have preferred she just lied and said zero? Re. your bridge, you might try selling it to Matt, above.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
March 31, 2022 4:25 pm

Albright was a lib who wouldn’t put up any
resistance to what known propagandist & liar
Leslie Stahl of Hunter Biden laptop fame would
have asked.

First, you offered a false choice between zero
& a million. Shame on you for the deception!!!

Second, it was Saddam who was running Iraq,
not the US. He was a violent aggressor causing
problems.

Third, he got to choose who got the Oil for Food
money which was done through two French oil
companies. It went to anti-Americans.

Fourth, our supposed allies left us to run the
no-fly zone. It was like holding a doberman
pinscher by the ears- how do you let go without
getting bitten? We needed to get out some time
as it was costing us $10B/yr. When we started
getting out with the Iraq War, both Germany &
France abandoned us as Iraq owed each country
>$10B which would be cancelled as odious debt.
Also, Europe uses more Middle Eastern oil than
we do. With friends like that, who needs
enemies!

Everything isn’t as black & white as you claim.
We saved the Kuwaitis which got us between
“Iraq & a hard place”. Giving Saddam more oil
money would have only led him to abuse more
of his neighbors. If it was just for the oil, we’d
have been an aggressor & conquered the Middle
East.

MarkW
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
March 31, 2022 5:26 pm

500,000 would have been pretty close to all the children in Iraq.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 8:38 pm

Yeah, how do you kill children while enforcing a no-fly zone?

Enforcing a no-fly zone consists of shooting down Saddam’s aircraft that violate the no-fly zone. Do a lot of children ride on Saddam’s miliary aircraft?

richard
Reply to  MarkW
April 1, 2022 2:36 am

Baghdad, was bombed every night in the shock and awe campaign.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 4:41 am

It wasn’t carpet bombing. You can watch the videos on your beloved YouTube, just not posted by your Russian and Chinese friends. The ordnance was precision guided so the number of hits was fairly low and there was a long pause between explosions.

richard
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
April 1, 2022 6:01 am

No one can say for certainty how many were killed from the bombing

II. CONDUCT OF THE AIR WARSignificant civilian casualties occurred in the air war in Iraq despite the use of a high percentage of precision weapons. Of the 29,199 bombs dropped during the war by the United States and United Kingdom, nearly two-thirds (19,040) were precision-guided munitions.21 In the Persian Gulf conflict in 1991, 8 percent of all bombs dropped were PGMs; in Yugoslavia in 1999 approximately one-third were PGMs; in Afghanistan in 2002 approximately 65 percent were PGMs.22
Many of the civilian casualties from the air war occurred during U.S. attacks targeting senior Iraqi leaders. The United States used an unsound targeting methodology that relied on intercepts of satellite phones and inadequate corroborating intelligence. Targeting based on geo-coordinates derived from satellite phones in essence rendered U.S. precision weapons potentially indiscriminate. This flawed targeting strategy was compounded by the lack of an effective assessment both prior to the attacks of the risks to civilians (what the U.S. military calls a “collateral damage estimate” or CDE) and following the attacks of their success and utility (what the U.S. military calls a “battle damage assessment” or BDA).

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.htm

“No one knows with certainty how many people have been killed and wounded in Iraq since the 2003 United States invasion. However, we know that between 184,382 and 207,156 civilians have died from direct war related violence caused by the U.S”

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi

MarkW
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 3:28 pm

How typical, one lie gets blown out of the water. Instead of trying to defend it, you just declare that nobody knows (they do, it’s just that you don’t want to.), then you start spewing new lies.

MarkW
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 3:27 pm

I’m guessing you actually believe the bombs that were being dropped were as dumb as you are.
Smart weapons were used, which hit the military targets they were aimed at.
The bombing was done at night so that the buildings would be mostly empty.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  richard
April 2, 2022 3:55 am

Shock and Awe was different from enforcing a no-fly zone.

MarkW
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 1, 2022 7:29 am

There is no reason to believe that Albright would have known the true numbers, nor would she have any desire to tell the truth.

Peter Müller
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 2:19 pm

Iraq War role was a stain on Colin Powell’s record — one he openly said he regrettedhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/colin-powell-iraq-war/2021/10/18/179d66bc-3023-11ec-a880-a9d8c009a0b1_story.html

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 3:45 pm

This is the same Gen Powell who stopped the fighting too
soon in the Gulf War & left Saddam too strong so he could
stay in power. The MSM did their share to make it sound like
the right call which it wasn’t. I think Powell was too concerned
about what the MSM said in both instances- the Gulf War &
his comment about Iraq. If we hadn’t gotten out then, when
would have we?

Powell was a great general & did a lot to restore the US
military. I definitely would not have wanted to make the
decisions he had to make.

MarkW
Reply to  Old Man Winter
March 31, 2022 5:29 pm

After his career in the military, Powell revealed himself as someone who would say or do whatever it took to advance his agenda. From those who knew him in the military said pretty much the same thing about his career in the Pentagon.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 7:01 pm

Both Powell & Schwarzkopf fought in the rice
paddies in Vietnam which is enough to give
anyone PTSD. In other words, they lived in hell.
Both of them saw the quality of servicemen drop
in the unpopular war, where returning vets got
spit upon. So they did their best to get make it
better which was a noble goal & they & others
succeeded

Powell was very intelligent, articulate & polished
so he fit in with the Pentagon crowd & was more
than qualified to be the CJCS. Promotions at
that level are all political so you’re sensitive to
others’ opinions just like a politician, which is
what he later became. So I think he was afraid
of being wrongly labeled by the MSM jerks as a
warmonger which is why he quit too soon. As for
Iraq, when else would we have gotten out?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Old Man Winter
March 31, 2022 8:49 pm

“Both of them saw the quality of servicemen drop
in the unpopular war, where returning vets got
spit upon.”

It’s not true that the quality of servicemen dropped.

It’s not true that the Vietnam war was an unpopular war. It was unpopular with the anti-war crowd and the leftwing press, which made it seem unpopular, but it was supported by the majority of Americans in most polls.

Very few vets got spit on. That was just more anti-war, leftwing propaganda.

I walked out of the separataion center in Los Angeles in my full military dress uniform and proceeded to travel through several airports on the way home from Vietnam, and not one person even looked like they wanted to spit on me. In fact, I was treated very well by some of the native girls of America. They wanted to buy me drinks, not spit on me.

mikewaite
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 1, 2022 1:29 am

A few years ago I was on a coach tour (as a Brit) in the US with many of the others being Americans. We each introduced ourselves to fellow passengers . One admitted to being a Vietnam vet Instant applause.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  mikewaite
April 1, 2022 4:42 am

You ought to see how well Vietnam veterans are treated in the former South Vietnam. It’s pretty amazing. They are treated well even in the former North Vietnam. I’m sure that doesn’t apply to everyone there, but in general Americans are treated well.

I see where a Vietnamese electric car company is locating a new manufacturing plant here in the United States.

I feared a bloodbath in Vietnam after U.S. troops left, like happened in Cambodia, but the retribution didn’t come close to that level so I’m grateful for that, and the Vietnamese government seems to be fairly moderate now, and I’m grateful for that, too.

The Vietnamese are good people. I wish them a good life.

MarkW
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 1, 2022 3:31 pm

There were quite a few people who were willing to risk their lives to escape Vietnam by boat after the S. Vietnamese government fell.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  MarkW
April 2, 2022 3:59 am

My daughter was one of them. She escaped to the Phillipines and then came to the United States.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Old Man Winter
March 31, 2022 8:41 pm

“This is the same Gen Powell who stopped the fighting too soon in the Gulf War & left Saddam too strong so he could stay in power.”

Yes, GHW Bush and Powell should have taken Saddam out the first time we were over there.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 1, 2022 5:02 am

And GW Bush should have taken out the Mad Mullahs when he had the chance. He missed a good opportunity. And now look, the Mad Mullahs are on the verge of getting nuclear weapons. Look at all the trouble you could have prevented, GW.

GW, could have probably accomplished this aim of taking down the Mad Mullahs with a good propaganda campaign. He wouldn’t have even needed to send in American troops, just threaten to do so. The regular Iranian army and the people would have taken care of the rest.

But GW didn’t seem to want to put any pressure on the Mad Mullahs. They were a lot weaker back then, and America was a lot stronger and in a much better position with lots of American troops on both sides of Iran.

GW was right to a certain extent. He said Iraq under Saddam, Iran, and North Korea, were the Axis of Evil. He should have included Russia and the Chicoms in that list.

GW had a chance to take down two of the five, but he hesitated, and now we have to deal with a nuclear-armed Mad Mullahs.

And of course, that idiot Joe Biden is enabling the Mad Mullahs in their quest to turn the whole Middle East upside down. Biden needs to be impeached and removed from Office as soon as possible.

These problems of the world are solveable but not with our current clueless, delusional leadership, and I’m not just talking Joe Biden, but the leadership of the whole Western World.

Who among our current leadership sees the situation clearly? I can’t think of any (other than Trump).

If they believe in human-caused climate change, they don’t see the situation clearly. Look at the harmful position this belief has put the nations of Europe in, economy-wise and national security-wise.

There’s a lot of delusional thinking going on in the circles of power. This is not good for the people. The people need to make changes in the leadership.

ih_fan
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 11:49 am

Remember when German and Russian governments killed millions more?

Peter Müller
Reply to  ih_fan
March 31, 2022 2:00 pm

Remember when you killed almost all native americans?

Scissor
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 2:29 pm

Tell us about your father, grand father, etc. Were any of your ancestors Hessian soldiers?

You might do well to learn about our Thanksgiving.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 3:13 pm

Unfortunately, the “way of the world” has always been to
conquer, be conquered, or flee. All of the losers usually get
wiped out. Everyone participated as Natives conquered each
other, too. Everyone alive today is from those who
conquered at some point in time. I may not like this system
but it’s what we’re stuck with. C’est la vie!

Most Natives died from diseases, some from choosing the
wrong ally, & some from the greed of others. It’s obvious we
were greedy as the US should look more like a checkerboard.
Davy Crockett, a hero of the Indian Wars that forced the
Natives into Oklahoma via the Trail of Tears, left Congress in
disgust over the mistreatment of Natives. The only thing I can
say is that all of the Natives were not wiped out, which is a
very rare occurrence.

If all of us had been out of Central America instead of Africa,
the Natives would have conquered Europe. Mayans, Aztecs,
& Incas all practiced human sacrifice. It probably would
been worse for Europeans as there probably would have
been no survivors.

As you can see, there’s plenty of guilt to go around!

Scissor
Reply to  Old Man Winter
March 31, 2022 7:20 pm

Good comment, Old Man. As it turned out, there are more “Natives” in the U.S. today than at any time in more than 200 years.

They were late to get into the casino game, but I certainly prefer getting scalped at the blackjack table than the literal alternative.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Old Man Winter
March 31, 2022 9:00 pm

“As you can see, there’s plenty of guilt to go around!”

I don’t feel guilty about anything because I didn’t do anything. “Sins of the Father” is a non-starter with me. I’m only responsible for what I do, not what someone else does. That’s on them.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 1, 2022 12:39 am

If the theft was recent & the statute of limitations
hasn’t run out, then whatever was stolen should
be returned, possibly 2x/4x for the theft. Keeping
stolen property isn’t legal. There isn’t anything
that says one can’t voluntarily return it on their
own.

Beyond that, there isn’t a whole lot that can be
done as the one’s who they stole from stole it
from someone else & trying to resolve that would
be overly messy. So if someone conquered us &
took everything, they’ll keep it as most people
won’t admit they’re wrong any time soon. So
this time we’d be the losers. C’est la vie.

About the guilt, you’re technically right. In most
arguments like this, usually people refer to
their country, trying to make it sound morally
pure, when their ancestors stole land, too.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 1, 2022 9:24 am

I’m only responsible for what I do, not what someone else does.

Amazing how difficult a concept that seems to be for so many.

MarkW
Reply to  Old Man Winter
April 1, 2022 3:32 pm

The ancestors of the current Germans that Muller is so proud of, became owners of the land by killing the people who were there before.

MarkW
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 5:30 pm

Remember when your ancestors invaded the British Isles and killed many of the inhabitants?

Old Man Winter
Reply to  MarkW
March 31, 2022 5:35 pm

Actually, my ancestors were the Germans who forced
the Celts, the Picts & the Jutes to flee for their lives to
The Isles.

Richard Page
Reply to  Old Man Winter
April 1, 2022 6:03 am

You mean the Celts and Picts? Jutes were Germanic – from the German/Danish Jutland. Anyway the Celts were also invaders from Europe, as were the Picts. You have to go a very long way back into British prehistory to find an ‘original inhabitant’ of the UK. Go even further back and the only place us humans haven’t really invaded to become ‘original inhabitants’ is east Africa and even that’s debated these days!

Last edited 3 months ago by Richard Page
MarkW
Reply to  Richard Page
April 1, 2022 3:35 pm

I’m pretty sure whoever the orginal settlers of the British Isle’s were, they were able to walk there.

Richard Page
Reply to  MarkW
April 2, 2022 5:53 am

So what? What does them walking rather than using any other form of transport have to do with things? That’s a bit weird even for you, MarkW.

MarkW
Reply to  Richard Page
April 2, 2022 9:16 am

It indicates how long ago they moved there.
Expand your mind a little bit. Nothing weird about it.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 8:57 pm

Native Americans are doing pretty good in the United States today. I live in a State, Oklahoma, that has about 40 native American tribes located in it.

The Cherokee Nation for example, regularly gives money to white people in the form of grants for one public project or another. They are doing pretty good financially, wouldn’t you say?

But it’s not like these grants are depriving native Americans because very many people in Oklahoma have some native American blood in them, so when the Cherokees give money to help people, they are helping native Americans, too.

It’s all good.

RevJay4
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 1, 2022 5:56 am

We regularly visit OK to make reparations(casino trips) to the natives. Uh, the wife is part Choctaw/Cherokee, or something, so not sure how that works out. Still we enjoy the hospitality of the native Americans and will continue to do so.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  RevJay4
April 2, 2022 4:01 am

“We regularly visit OK to make reparations(casino trips) to the natives.”

That’s funny!

Yes, there are a lot of people making reparations to the native Americans that way. 🙂

richard
Reply to  Peter Müller
April 1, 2022 2:38 am

did well in Vietnam as well.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Peter Müller
April 1, 2022 5:26 am

Actually, most Native Americans were not killed. There weren’t that many to begin with and they were pushed west because they wouldn’t integrate in with the more numerous European immigrants. Don’t believe the BS the liberal history re-writers are publishing. If there were as many Native Americans as they say, then there would certainly be some evidence, which is completely lacking.

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Peter Müller
April 1, 2022 7:58 am

You act as if this is some special burden borne by Americans. From time immemorial, folks have been moving in and conquering other folks, sometimes slaughtering them. We came, we fought, they lost. One of the oldest themes in history, and pre-history, for that matter. I’m not proud of how we have treated First Nation peoples. Treaty breaking in particular boils my blood, but that’s a fight the First Nation folks need to advance on their own behalf.

Peter Müller
Reply to  ih_fan
March 31, 2022 2:50 pm

Remember that Ukraine support Nazi-Germany and killed the jews?

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 3:30 pm

That was after Stalin had MURDERED millions of Ukrainians.
There are many Americans who don’t support our stance on
Ukraine because they know there are Nazis in Ukraine & they
are speaking the truth. Everything isn’t totally black & white.

Reply to  Old Man Winter
April 1, 2022 9:32 am

“There are many Americans who don’t support our stance on Ukraine because they know there are Nazis in Ukraine”

Perhaps, but I don’t think that makes killing civilians, especially innocent children, acceptable. I find it sick that some people appear to.

MarkW
Reply to  Old Man Winter
April 1, 2022 3:50 pm

There are Nazi’s in Argentina, Brazil, and most of the middle east countries.

OweninGA
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 6:50 pm

There were many countries that supported the national workers socialist party of Germany during the war that didn’t really have a great deal in common with them. The Irish supported the Axis because they hated the English. Several central and south American countries did as well for their resentments of the US. Ukraine did because they hated Stalin. The Holodomor was still very fresh in their minds. Do we then condemn all the “enemy of my enemy” countries? There were those in France that supported the German occupation, and most of Europe gave concessions trying to appease that regime when hindsight shows that was the absolute opposite of what they should have done.

The other thing of importance is that Jew hatred was not just a German problem. Many of the “Christian” sects (including the Roman Catholic, and most of the protestant churches) blamed the Jews for the crucifixion of Christ and railed in sermons about the blood on the hands of the Jewish race. Even with that background there were a large number of deeply religious people that risked their lives to evacuate their Jewish neighbors. It was not a monolithic thing. In fact it was mostly secular people that latched on to turning in the Jews. Psychology of all this is complicated, but Ukraine was a deeply scarred nation at that point and the fact it welled up in an easy hatred of the group their new friends hated isn’t completely surprising. Excess does tend to breed a backlash though and that left Ukraine in an odd position. It also didn’t last long before the German army had to retreat and Ukraine ceased to exist again, once more subsumed into the USSR.

It is also worth remembering that Russia also was with Germany for the first couple of years of the conflict, and only bowed out when they thought Germany was imposing on what they considered rightfully theirs. (mainly Poland, but Hungary and Romania as well.)

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  OweninGA
April 1, 2022 5:31 am

I thought Operation Barbarossa was what caused the falling out.

OweninGA
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
April 1, 2022 3:29 pm

They were in the process of stabbing each other in the back. Germany struck first as the Russians had planned to conduct a sneak attack in July 1941 and were repositioning their forces for that strike when the German Army smashed through in June of 1941. Part of the reason for the easy German push through the lines was the Russians were massing for their own push and didn’t have defensive positions in place to repel the invaders. The USSR was clear that they wanted Poland and much of the rest of eastern Europe. The non-aggression pact really only gave them easier access in the beginning, but there are indications that they never intended to keep it for long. (Such as giving orders for a July 29th invasion of German occupied territories.)

Reply to  Peter Müller
April 1, 2022 2:18 am

Another little known detail in WW2 was the murder of a few tens of thousands of ethnic Polish civilians in western Ukraine, by Ukrainian militia.

MarkW
Reply to  Peter Müller
April 1, 2022 3:49 pm

So did French people, Polish people, etc. Every conquered country had people who cooperated with the Nazis. Your desperation to protect Putin from the consequences of his actions is causing you to say some really stupid things.

BTW, Russia has a very checkered history in regards to it’s treatment of the Jews. Though I’m sure you already knew that.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 12:19 pm

I will remind you that the first individuals to go to prison camps in Germany and nearby were Germans who would not sign the papers of allegiance to Hitler. Some of their pictures are displayed at the death camp museums.

CD in Wisconsin
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 12:20 pm

“I am German and I trust Putin more than the US-government. Remember how USA killed million people for oil. https://youtube.com/shorts/1T5JRVR53Eo?feature=share
I think USA is a warmonger.”

Monstrous level of hypocrisy coming from a citizen of a country responsible for WWII and the Jewish Holocaust. If you are a fan of YouTube videos Peter, there are plenty of them about the Holocaust and WWII in Europe for you to watch.

richard
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
March 31, 2022 1:22 pm

I never understood how members of the Wehrmacht were allowed to join NATO. I would have thought that alone would atagonise the Russians.

Willem post
Reply to  richard
March 31, 2022 3:09 pm

Neo-Nazi, extremist, AZOV battalions are all over Ukraine cities, including Mariupol
They have installed pro-Kiev compliant city governments.
They hide among civilians and try to prevent them from escaping.

MarkW
Reply to  Willem post
March 31, 2022 5:31 pm

Just how much is Putin paying you?

richard
Reply to  MarkW
April 1, 2022 2:40 am

ah the jump to how much is Putin paying you- I suggest you listen to the Professor of Russian History at Princeton University- its called History and Facts.

MarkW
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 3:59 pm

Spouting easily disprovable lies that neatly correspond to the lies that Putin is spouting and paying the groups he has been supporting for years, to repeat.
Neither you nor Willem has come close to anything resembling a fact.

Reply to  Willem post
April 1, 2022 9:33 am

Does that justify killing civilians, Willem?

richard
Reply to  TonyG
April 1, 2022 2:56 pm

NATO, and the US have form in that area regarding civilian deaths.

MarkW
Reply to  richard
April 2, 2022 9:18 am

You really do have a vivid imagination?

Peter Müller
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
March 31, 2022 2:02 pm

Tell us about the holocaust against the native american people.

Graemethecat
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 4:28 pm

There seem to be plenty of Native Americans still living in the US.

richard
Reply to  Graemethecat
April 1, 2022 2:43 am

back in the 1950s they could be jailed if they didn’t speak English. how many contracts with the Indians were broken- sheesh their own country.

CD in Wisconsin
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 4:36 pm

I acknowledge that we badly mistreated Native Americans here in the U.S. back in the 19th century.

But what we did to Native Americans back then hardly compares to the Nazi Holocaust and the total number of dead at the end of WW2 in Europe which (as I understand it) is around 50 million.

OweninGA
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
March 31, 2022 7:07 pm

CD,

The colonies formed alliances with the various tribes and got dragged into the internecine warfare that the various tribes and bands already engaged in. Contrary to the activists words, the archaeological evidence shows that the tribes routinely slaughtered one another for territory and hunting grounds. As happened in wars of the 17th and 18th century, many unnecessary cruelties ensued, and our weapons technology advantages led to extreme losses for the natives.

The only thing that I will outright condemn was Andrew Jackson’s unlawful removal of the Cherokee. The order had been appealed to the Supreme Court and Jackson lost. He ignored the order and performed the act anyway. By rights, the congress should have impeached and convicted him for that alone, and it is to our eternal shame that it did not happen.

The later Indian wars went down as they did mostly as a result of Jackson’s betrayal of the Cherokee. None of the tribes could ever trust that the government would keep its word and so acted sometimes not in their own best interests, provoking conflicts that would inevitably lead to their further destruction. European settlers weren’t blameless, but it was far more complicated than the blame whitey crowd would have one believe.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  OweninGA
March 31, 2022 9:10 pm

“The only thing that I will outright condemn was Andrew Jackson’s unlawful removal of the Cherokee. The order had been appealed to the Supreme Court and Jackson lost. He ignored the order and performed the act anyway. By rights, the congress should have impeached and convicted him for that alone, and it is to our eternal shame that it did not happen.”

I agree with everything you said except that last part.

I feel no shame over this incident because I had nothing to do with it.

Collective shame is BS, imo. I’m not guilty.

Righting the wrong, if possible, is a different matter, and worthy of consideration.

richard
Reply to  Peter Müller
April 1, 2022 2:42 am

dont forget they have been slowly erased- it’s all now Black lives matter – no matter that 6 million indians were put into slavery.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  richard
April 1, 2022 5:46 am

Another attempt at shock by using large numbers that are completely meaningless. You’re saying that a large portion of Native Americans were slaves and not only that, but that they were a large portion of total slaves. Utter BS from the history re-writers.

richard
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
April 1, 2022 6:28 am

perhaps we should give each other links to our facts and comapare?

MarkW
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
April 1, 2022 4:01 pm

Like most of the rest of the Putin apologists, richard knows that he can’t win on facts, which is why bounces from one totally outrageous lie to another. Never attempting to defend one lie, but always ready with new ones.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Peter Müller
April 1, 2022 5:36 am

There wasn’t a holocaust. The Native Americans were pushed out of the way, not rounded up to be killed. And, the ones who were killed were also killing the White settlers. It was more of a war than a holocaust, although one side was much stronger. And don’t believe the Disney cartoons. There was very serious bloodshed between the different tribes throughout their history.

Peter Müller
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
March 31, 2022 2:51 pm

Remember that Ukraine support Nazi-Germany and killed the jews?

CD in Wisconsin
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 4:36 pm

I’m not going to watch the whole hour of your video. But the first few minutes of it showed the violent uprising of the Ukrainian people against Putin’s puppet Viktor Yanukovych in Kiev back in 2014.

As for the number of Ukrainian Jews who were rounded up and murdered during the Nazi occupation of Ukraine, that number hardly compares with the total number of Jews murdered in the Holocaust by Germany during the war throughout Europe.

Peter, if you are here to be an apologist for Putin and his war in Ukraine, I can almost assure you that you have few or no supporters here.

aussiecol
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
April 1, 2022 12:42 am

Lest we forget.

MarkW
Reply to  Peter Müller
April 2, 2022 9:23 am

After being invaded, every country “supported the Nazi’s” and aided them in killing Jews. There were also a lot of brave individuals who opposed the Nazi’s in all countries.

Your eagerness to defend Putin’s murderous actions by dragging in things that happened over 70 years ago, is just more proof that even you know that you can’t support the nonsense you are pushing.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 1:55 pm

Leslie Stahl- the person who willingly told a bold-faced lie to Trump about
Hunter Biden’s laptop? Boy, are you gull-i-bull!!!!!!!

Hint: Don’t trust either the US gubmint or Putin!

As for Iraq, after the Gulf War our supposed allies left the US holding the
bag for the no-fly zone- which is like holding a nasty doberman pinscher by
it’s ears- how do you let go of it without getting bitten? This cost us
$10B/yr. France & Germany didn’t want us to invade as Iraq owed each of
them > $10B & it would possibly get cancelled as odious debt if Saddam
was deposed. Other countries also were owed money but they didn’t
abandon us. I guess it’s okay to betray a friend who kept you free during the
Cold War for $10B+! With W Germany giving E Germany foreign aid already
in the late 70s, maybe you didn’t want to be free as much as you claimed to!
Before you throw rocks, remember that you live in a glass house, too!!!

As for WMD, EVERYBODY, including the Israelis, were wrong!!!!!

Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 3:20 pm

Jowl-flap all you want at Peter Muller’s comment, but the reality is that German sentiment is closer to Russia and further from America than most people further west realise. Anglosaxon cultural imperialism and arrogance, with our climate and LGBT missionary pith helmets and petticoats, are driving more and more in the world toward a Russia-China-India-etc. alliance. When the dust settles from this war we in the “west” will realise how small and isolated we are.

Last edited 3 months ago by Phil Salmon
Peter Müller
Reply to  Phil Salmon
March 31, 2022 4:27 pm

Russia was bad 40 years ago, but at the moment USA is the bad guy. USA is run by 200 very rich families and they destroy the world and USA. Even the US-President Eisenhower explaind the problem:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyBNmecVtdU

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 5:13 pm

I don’t know about the 200 families but I do know there are
internationalists who are trying to take over much of the world
including Biden, Soros, Klaus Schwab (World Economic
Forum (WEF)), etc., & currently, are setting US policy. There
are also many in Europe who are further ahead with their plan
than in the US. Putin is still a bad guy looking to restore
Russia to its former glory.

Ike was wise to warn us 60 yrs ago.

MarkW
Reply to  Peter Müller
March 31, 2022 5:34 pm

You really believe anything so long as it conforms to your belief that the US is evil and everyone else is a saint.

Trying to Play Nice