Aussie Covid-19 Response: Warrantless Home Invasion, Smashed Car Windows

Aussie Police Checkpoint
Brian Robert Marshall / Police checkpoint, Queens Drive, Swindon (3)

h/t James Delingpole; The Australian state of Victoria has all but declared Martial Law in an effort to contain a second wave Coronavirus outbreak. But many Australians support the brutal government actions to prevent the spread of the virus.

A group calling themselves “Sovereign Citizens” is defying the crackdown;

Police single out so-called ‘sovereign citizens’ for breaking Victoria’s coronavirus mask rules

UPDATED 4 DAYS AGO BY JARNI BLAKKARLY

Victoria Police say they have witnessed a concerning trend in the rise of so-called “sovereign citizens” who are refusing to follow coronavirus restrictions. 

Chief Commissioner Shane Patton on Tuesday raised concerns about small groups refusing police directions. 

“In the last week, we’ve seen a trend, an emergence if you like, of groups of people, small groups, but nonetheless concerning groups, who classify themselves as sovereign citizens, whatever that might mean,” he told reporters on Tuesday.

“People who don’t think the law applies to them. We’ve seen them at checkpoints baiting police, not providing a name and address.

“On at least four occasions in the last week, we’ve had to smash the windows of cars and pull people out to provide details because they weren’t adhering to the Chief Health Officer guidelines, they weren’t providing their name and address.”

Read more: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/police-single-out-so-called-sovereign-citizens-for-breaking-victoria-s-coronavirus-mask-rules

How do Australians feel about this level of government response? Obviously some groups such as Australia’s “Sovereign Citizens”, or people who have suffered because their industry collapsed, are pretty upset about the lockdowns. Many of my older friends are totally against any form of government Covid containment measures.

There is another side to this issue. Australia came within a hair of totally eliminating local Covid infections. New Zealand is still in that happy place of very few infections. Following an initial wave of infection, Australian states like West Australia, Tasmania, Queensland and the Northern Territory managed to all but eliminate local Covid cases. They are now doing everything in their power to keep it that way, by stopping people from hotspots like Victoria crossing state borders.

So long as Australians believe there is a hope of regaining control of the current outbreaks in Victoria and New South Wales, or preventing those outbreaks from spreading, harsh lockdown enforcement measures will enjoy significant and sustained public support.

263 thoughts on “Aussie Covid-19 Response: Warrantless Home Invasion, Smashed Car Windows

    • Eric

      Surely the photo has got nothing to do with the story. The photo is of Swindon UK in 2007 and is entirely unrelated to covid

      Tonyb

      • Yes, just a picture of a police checkpoint, probably an alcohol testing stop. My wife wasn’t keen on me driving to Victoria to get a pic of an actual Covid checkpoint
        ;-).

        • reckon it wuld be cos the kids behind are all clse and not masked.
          how do Victorians feel?
          pissed off to the max NOT because of the new regs and masks though its annoying
          but
          more at the utter dipshits who dont sty homewith Pos test results and who work when crook
          theyre the sods who caused the curfews and restrictions
          thing is we were damned near clear of it.
          until testosterone cowboy Insecurity guards (non english majority working on the sly and without a brain among em) fraternised with OS quarantines in hotels then went n spread it among their families mates and all over the bloody state again!
          we have 8 cases in a huge thousand fof sq km area, but still cop masks n stage 3.
          as for the less than bright sovvy cits?
          its always been illegal to NOT show licence when pulled over by a cop, so if their windows get smashed? believe me no ones feeling sorry or affronted
          theyre not special theyre bloody idiots, their behaviour as well as those IN quarantine not being home is whats allowed the extra regs to be created. 800+contagious morons roaming round.
          do I like masks ?
          no
          pain in the bum but I ill play the game if it drops risks to the3 late 70s to 80s oldies I spend my days helping out
          who are in poor health and high risk.
          Im not low risk myself.
          Im overjoyed to have NO os travel in or out but my views always been that travel is overpriced over rated and a waste of time n money that’d be better used at home.
          even prior covid the risk to health being os and being in crowded planes etc was high, every yr we get the newest and nastiest flu fly in as a bonus;-(
          the banning of os workers and tourist visas and student means Aussies might get a uni place and a job now.
          not unhappy with that as a good upside to all the crap.

          • You’ve been punked by wannabe Nazis into believing that Covid ISN’T the flu season. Perhaps you should consider that this is the first time in history where the response to a “pandemic” is to ISOLATE THE HEALTHY!

            imgflip.com/i/48vkbv

    • Victoria has been a police state for decades, and the policy of entering a home without a warrant is just Australia coping New Zealand, again.

      • Victoria a “Police State”? For decades? Give me a break. What a stupid statement given what happens in actual ‘police states’ around the world.

        The loudest complaints about the Victorian police and justice system has been about its too liberal use of bail for violent offenders, particularly rapists, and the blatant criminal gangs that operated in cerstain arewas all but in plain sight.

        • Yeah I lived in a police state, Belgium, once in the 80’s. Papers! Give me your papers!

          I lived in Victoria too. How long will it be before these papers will include biometric data that you are “clear” of COVID-19, or whatever comes next?

        • They have the highest incidence of fatal police shootings … their police uniforms with the ‘special’ caps are the closest I’ve seen to naaaaazis in a long time … and oh yes, the corrupt and failed prosecution of Cardinal Pell which did much good for their reputation as a police ‘farce’. Turned their backs to illegal BLM marches and mayhem. Innocent bystanders at Australia Day celebration in Melbourne CBD harassed and arrested by police because there was an anti-Australia mob march approaching … there’s a lot of competition around Australia for the title “police state” but Victoria is head and shoulders the leading candidate.

        • M Seward, the Victorian Police protect and facilitate Antifa “protests.” For example. Not as far off as you would like to console yourself.

        • yeah the sudanese gangs and the rest are feeling it
          bloody marvellous if the little mongrels try n roam n rob rape etc theyre seen and collared.
          why the hell we havent deported many beggars belief

      • If you call Victoria a police state perhaps you need to get out in the world and see a real one in action, North Korea would be a good start.

        • That is an interesting question, what do we mean by “police state”, or “totalitarianism” for that matter. It seems that people have an image of these things which is based on historical outlooks. So totalitarianism looks like the USSR, for example, with all the sanctions that entailed – the gulag, show trials, etc. But isn’t that the problem? People fail to recognise a situation because of they rely on outmoded pictures to measure it.

          Suppose we agree that the hallmarks of “totalitarianism” is that the state has near total control over every persons day to day activities and utterances. Let’s say a police state is where the police are policing day to day activities – where are you going, where have you been? – instead of solving crime. Since the penalty is a fine rather than the gulag, does that mean it is not a police state? Are we saying if the penalty is light, a police state cannot exist? Just a thought.

          • Very well put. And as I understand the person who had the screen of their car smashed “failed” to answer similar questions.

          • Every state in Australia is under health Act laws which work much the same as martial law. The trick being played here is that is not our normal laws … gee my rights are being infringed at the moment … gee really that is the intention 🙂

          • Any one in a car at any time has yo provide basic information, it’s not just a Covid thing.
            Refuse to open windows or give details means they will do the window smashing thing. No warrants required.
            Equivalent in US would be no knock raids on a person’s house.

          • LdB August 10, 2020 at 12:43 am

            Every state in Australia is under health Act laws which work much the same as martial law.”

            You suggesting martial law is imposed? Health Act laws are very vague.

          • You have emergency power health act laws in effect in each state they differ slightly but all have the same effect and yes they resemble martial law. They breach your civil rights intentionally they wouldn’t be much of an emergency power if they didn’t.

            Each state will have a declaration of the emergency powers posted as mandated by state laws and those powers will have an end date which will have to be continually extended.
            I live in Western Australia so I know ours here our notifications
            https://www.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-08/Extension%20of%20State%20of%20Emergency%206%20Aug%20%20to%2020%20Aug%202020.pdf

            So in Western Australia that is the Emergency Declaration to 20 August 2020 we are working on. It will be very similar for each state.

            So yes you may not realize it but you have something akin to martial law in operation and if you are given a lawful instruction by a police officer you obey or else.

          • “…No warrants required.
            Equivalent in US would be no knock raids on a person’s house…”

            No-knock raids REQUIRE A WARRANT. You just don’t need to knock or ring the doorbell to alert your presence before entering. Stop spreading this nonsense.

    • Yes.
      This has not stopped the media from wanting to ascribe the deaths of younger people to COVID. They have been busted though. FEAR is one of the base emotions that induce humans to behave like lemmings. There has been a deliberate attempt to use what is a variant of the flu to collapse the entire system.

      • You might wish to read the case of a doctor having Covid-19 and the ensuing effect on his health.

        About six weeks after he had cleared the virus Dr Lee had an epileptic seizure at work and was hospitalised for four days.
        An electroencephalogram – a test that monitors electrical brain activity- found Dr Lee had new onset epilepsy.
        “I had never had that before,” he said. “I am no longer allowed to ride a bicycle, I am not allowed to drive a car, I’m on medication now.”
        A scan of his heart at St Vincent’s Hospital in Darlinghurst found a scar “right down the middle of my heart” – a condition known as myocarditis – “which is part of the virus”, he said.
        “So I’m not allowed to exercise either … that’s a bit of a shock to me, being as fit as I am, that I am not allowed to exercise, I am not allowed to drive.”

        https://www.smh.com.au/national/seizures-and-battered-heart-how-covid-19-scarred-a-healthy-sydney-doctor-20200802-p55hqj.html

        There is not enough information being promulgated on the after-effects of this virus which does not sound like a ‘variant of the flu’ to me.

        • The complications from the Wuhan virus are many.

          I read where some doctors are expecting an epidemic of kidney disease and sepsis in the future from recovered Wuhan virus patients.

          • Wuhan virus? No, Fort Detrick virus.
            This came from the USA bioweapon programme and the yanks took it to Wuhan.

          • “Wuhan virus? No, Fort Detrick virus.
            This came from the USA bioweapon programme and the yanks took it to Wuhan.”

            Is that you, Xi? Spreading a little disinformation, are you?

        • Yes there are some strange symptoms associated with this virus: fear and hysteria being the two most common.

          • not really
            heart muscle damage isnt faked neither is renal failure sepsis loss of extremities strokes etc
            true its not all cases but even the kids who had mild or asymptomatic doses later developed serious illness
            its NOT a standard flu, but its as contagious as the avg is
            Aus hospitals dont do the pay to play of handouts of 29k if a covid diagnosis is listed
            our services are available to all who need them as much as possible with bed and surgeons being the limiting factors usually.

          • “heart muscle damage isnt faked neither is renal failure sepsis loss of extremities strokes etc”

            None of those things are particularly surprising if you’ve been hospitalized with very low oxygen levels in your blood.

            The ‘OMG we’re all going to die!’ narrative turned out to be false after they ran out of old farts in care homes, so now they’re switching to the ‘if you survive you’ll be brain-damaged!’ narrative to try to keep the fear going.

            In no previous society would this disease have been considered scary, let alone have resulted in countries locking people in their houses and destroying the economy.

          • The SARS-CoV-2 virus uses its ‘spike’ to attach to the ACE2 receptors on cells. These are not only on the airway epithelial cells but every epithelial and endothelial cell in the body. This means that the blood vessels are attacked and that damage and the resultant immune response damage can cause heart problems, renal problems, strokes, meningitis and psychosis. These symptoms were of course all blamed on HCQ for those patients receiving it.
            The damage will not go away after the infection has passed some organs and blood vessels will be chronically damaged.

            It would be a lot better if USA and others followed those countries that gave zinc, a zinc ionophore and an antibiotic at the first symptoms or even prophylactically after a contact with someone infected. That would also reduce the numbers of people with other viral infections such as flu. Of course that might mean a business loss for the vaccine industry, which is why the USA doesn’t follow the other countries with lower death rates.

          • LOL. Truer words never spoken. It is like being in an episode of the Twilight Zone. (Yes, I am in Victoria, Australia). Wishing I wasn’t.

        • Like global warming “climate change” and Donald Trump, there is nothing that can’t be blamed on COVID-19. We are not very different than our ancestors who blamed the gods for natural disasters and epidemics.

          • Covid-19 happened because of climate change that happened because Donald Trump got out of the Paris Accords and let it happen.

            Trifecta!

        • Were the scars there before? Who knows…

          If I contract COVID-19 today, and they look at my heart after recovery, they will see scaring. Yes. Was it a result of COVID-19? No. Might it be attributed to COVID-19, who knows.

          • unless youve had a heart attack NO they wont see scarring. normal hearts of any age shouldnt have that sort of damage without good reason.

          • Lots of issues can cause scarring of heart tissue (leading to stuff like heart attacks, not just following). A “normal” heart should not be scarred, but how do you know how “normal” it is without testing beforehand?

        • Perhaps, as a Doctor, he might have taken a few simple and cheap precautions.

          1. Ensured he took Vitamin D, whether he thought he needed it or not.

          2. Ensured he took Vitamin C, whether he thought he needed it or not.

          3. Ensured he took a course of Hydroxychloroquine.

          None of these precautions may have halted the onset of Covid 19 in this Doctor, but all three are harmless and dirt cheap.

          Instead, ‘the science’ instructs us to social distance, wear gloves, wear, wear goggles, shut down schools (where it has been found not one single child has passed the virus onto an adult – Globally) shut down businesses and quarantined people against their will in places ideally situated to the spread of the virus. few if any are proven to have made any difference whatsoever. All very well, if one wasn’t coerced under threats of fines or detention, many people can ill afford.

          And we’re expected to have any faith in scientists whatsoever, when the ‘scientific’ solution is to adopt draconian policies and laws as the only solution scientists can find – solutions founded on Voodoo superstition, fear and blind faith.

          In much the same way that the ‘solution’ to climate change is to force people to change their way of life and accept burdensome and futile Taxation as a solution to an entirely natural phenomenon.

          I feel sorry for the doctor in this case but if he didn’t take a few simple, cheap and demonstrably safe precautions, then his condition has nothing to do with science, it’s due to a belief in politics rather than science.

          • HotScot
            August 10, 2020 at 1:10 am

            To which he could have added zinc (as sulfate or picolinate) as it is zinc shuttled into the cells by HCQ that stops RNA viruses hijacking the cell’s RNA transcription process and so stops viruses replicating.
            And he could also add selenium (one Brazil nut a day) as that also has an antiviral effect as part of the innate immune system.

            If you cannot get HCQ then quercetin a plant extract has similar anti-inflammatory and zinc ionophore effects.

            Most of these ‘supplements’ should be present in a complete diet and in the case of vitamin D being out in the sun. It is surprising how many people are insufficient in these basic nutrients making themselves susceptible to viral infection.

            Zinc is the important antiviral someone sufficient in zinc (mainly from meat) and eating a diet rich in vegetable and leafy vegetable micronutrients (one of which is quercetin) will be far less susceptible to viral infection. The vaccine industry does not want you to know that.

        • oddly in spite of the serious ongoing effects many suffer even after “recovery” its been kept fairly quiet which was a mistake.
          now theyre starting to allow patients to be heard
          and yes a hell of a lot are old foks confined in aircon shared small areas low Vit forced fluvax in april every yr staff manadtory fluvax too
          does naff all good as the protection rates a lousy 29 to 32% ON the vaccine handouts own admission!
          fed but not all that well, daily vitamin tabs would be more use than half the toxic meds they cop.
          but 2 30yr olds died this week a young mum semi recovered relapsed and 32 days in hospital
          but then we also have the stupid idea we cant use anything meds wise the bastard FDA hasnt approved.
          so options used arent maybe doing any good but they wont look outside the “govt seal of approval” box either.
          Ivomec trials in egypt completed data handed in for reviews over a fortnight plus and NO resut published yet near useless remdesivir got appro here and lots of global media while data NOT presented…
          whole sagas been a clusterf*ck from the start

      • The FEAR porn is more widely disseminated than common garden variety porn. It’s almost as if someone has a LOT of $$$ to make by fomenting mass public panic. Fact is 99% of people survive the CHINA Pox. If my oncologist told me I had a 99% chance of beating whatever cancer he had diagnosed … I’d be THRILLED!

    • Yes the follow the usual profiles dominated by the elderly (190 out of the current 210 aged 60+, with must deaths in the 80’s) , with many nursing home deaths. Comorbidity information for younger victims is rarely released and rarely sought by the MSM. They do of course make a point of highlighting any younger deaths. Interestingly last year 136,000 people got the flu and nearly 300 died, but I never heard a peep in the media.

      • “Comorbidity information for younger victims is rarely released and rarely sought by the MSM. ”

        I read a couple of weeks ago that most (?) young fatal cases are obese.

        • And for sure, most all young “school age” children have been subjected (forced) to breathe diesel exhaust particulate while being transported to and from school, with many of them suffering lung problems as a result, ……. which makes them a prime candidate for a Covoid-19 infection.

    • The first three recorded deaths in New South Wales were aged care residents all over 90 years old.

    • Yes in relation to the deaths. Most of us are complaint with all this even though we doubt its value but the SOVCits are also a bunch of stupid w@nkers who have been picking on their fellow citizens eg shop assistants to complain about wearing masks. If they really feel that strongly, they should head off to their local MPs office and harass them.

      • “Quilter August 9, 2020 at 6:58 pm

        …head off to their local MPs office…”

        I did that recently, Anthony Albanese, to get a document witnessed He is a local MP, but he is not MY MP, would not want to go near that slime pit with a voting paper, not that I can anyway). Office was closed due to COVID-19. Which is, of course, bollox!

    • So, what if it is?
      Perhaps we should just shut all age care facilities and bump everyone off when they get too old.
      Forget whether or not they made a life long contribution to your current standard of living, we owe them nothing, let them go.
      Just don’t come begging when you get sick enough to require ICU, take one for the team and die, now…
      Idiot.

    • Flu kills 300-3,000 Australians per year. The death rate is well and truly in the normal range from seasonal influenza deaths. Do note, the social isolation has been responsible for 1,000 more suicides than usual. Deaths from unnecessary suicides( mainly younger) have dwarfed the deaths from the virus (almost entirely older.)
      We should be questioning the motives behind the hysteria. Politicians, mainstream media etc. Daniel Andrews going full-on CCP style lockdowns, with stage 5 being mooted. Just what will this entail from Dictator Dan?

      • Good comment.
        Victoria keeps very good health statistics but we will have to wait to get the results.
        I suspect many ups and downs.
        Example – road toll is down, but mainly due to kids not going to school during peak traffic times. The road toll for working age adults has not gone down, probably due to driving faster.

        • Since you mentioned road toll (which is 10 times the virus just for context), the important thing to remember is that 100% of road deaths are directly related to roads.

          So, if every life is vital and must be protected the simple solution is to 100% ban road use.

          Right?

          Of course not. Society as we know it would collapse as all our supply chains collapse overnight. It is, Not Reasonably Practical.

          This is my point. In the real world you cannot save everyone. In the real world you are still required to ensure the primary function of a system continues to operate. Risk reduction in Australia is LEGALLY built around the concept of As Far As Is Reasonably Practical because eventually you need to accept that no risk can ever be reduced to 100% Zero.

          So, open question – When does the lives of millions become less important than the lives of scores, and how much of society are you willing to destroy in order to protect society from destruction?

          • Craig
            Excellent talking points.
            There are many ways to approach it.
            One way, but not the only way is to treat COVID as a disease that needs to be fought. BUT a it’s budget must be justified against other disease that needs to be fought. Very simple- nation has health budget to fight disease a, b, c……and COVID. Each and every treatment and preventative measure must be justified and compared with other measures.
            I have absolutely no doubt lockdowns and masks are a waste of money.

      • Yeah mate and if we responed lik ethe US we could have 50 or a 100 times more infections and deaths. Florida has 3 million fewer people than the whole of Australia but about 50 tims more deaths when I checked a week or so ago. Why don’t you ‘libertarian’ loons just stick to your knitting? i.e. piss off and mind your own business?

        Oh and I live in Victoria so know what its actually like. We have a small fringe of liberloons getting themselves in the media and another cadre of just plain selfish arseholes who refuse to just wear a mask in public or lay off the partying. Screw the lot of them. Let them get depressed cos they can’t party like yesterday and let them top themselves, good riddance to anti social scum.

        Honestly mate you libertarians are starting to look pretty much like CCP hacks, different lean but ideological imbeciles anyway.

        • @Komrade Kuma Right. I personally know of an elderly lady who had and was recovering COVID but she fell and hit her head causing massive bleeding on the brain, which cause her death. Cause of death? COVID of course. And there are cases like the motorcyclist who died in a traffic accident in Florida who had tested positive for COVID. Cause of death COVID of course. Doctors are reporting that they are being pressured to put down COVID as cause of death if suspected even if no positive evidence. Probably because the hospitals get an extra $15,000 for each COVID death. That’s not greed on their part it’s desperation-the shutdowns have cut in half all non-emergency procedures reducing the hospitals’ income, but not their expenses.

          • Aussie hospitals dont work on a “bounty for covid”
            they simply take anyone ill needing help and do their best.
            if you work and have private cover you pay something of th costs
            if your poor youre treated the same but dont pay.
            some super expensive options mightnt be available but most of us dont require them or expect that as a right.

        • You already have 100 times the deaths in Victoria.
          They’re just not linked to coronavirus.

        • Agree. Why is it so hard to wear a mask and keep your distance? They’re not asking you to give up your firstborn son or die on the beach at Normandy.

          • Not a very good analogy, since the boys dying on the beach at Normandy were running toward the danger, not hiding in their basements.

            Some of us understand not only the dangers of SARS-Cov2, but the dangers of a virus called government. I’m not sure that a mask will protect you from either one.

          • Well, wearing a mask does reduce your risk of being harassed by the government. It’s not foolproof, given the huge amount of fools working for the government.

          • Masks Early vs Late Adoption

            This is a pro-mask study but I like to read both sides of an issue. While going through this one this part jumped out at me. It could explain some of the anomalies like Mexico having a higher compliance of mask wearing than Japan but way worse results. It also would mean that it’s a moot point for everyone now.

            https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342198360_Association_of_country-wide_coronavirus_mortality_with_demographics_testing_lockdowns_and_public_wearing_of_masks_Update_June_15_2020

            Do check out “Figure 1” on page 18/19.

            A recommendation (not an order) to wear masks by day 15 make a huge difference. Masks by day 16-30 have some effect. No masks or masks after day 60 (where we are) forget about it.

            This assumes the mortality numbers are arrived at and accounted for consistently from country to country which we know is not the case. If you accept that they are comparable that ship has sailed for us as we passed the 60 day point a quite a while ago.

            Conclusion: Masks now is like putting on a condom after you’ve had sex.

          • “Why is it so hard to wear a mask and keep your distance?”

            Because it’s retarded to be scared of a disease no more dangerous than a bad flu, which mostly kills those who are already nearly dead.

        • Instead of a lockdown maybe you should look at what your northern neighbours are doing rather than copying the failed policies of others. Their population density dwarfs even your highest areas.

          Taiwan = 7 deaths, Japan = 1001 deaths, Singapore = 26 deaths
          They all use inhaled steroid treatments as a first line of defence.
          Cheap and can be used on very sick people with serious existing health conditions.

          Check out the video of Dr. Richard Bartlett (Budesonide)

          • Wow, that’s an eye-opener. Of course, the medical stasi, including Fauxi will come out against it, especially once they do “medical trials” on people who are already at death’s door. It’s almost as if they want the drug treatment to fail because “vaccine”.

        • This is how Australians talk. So coarse. Are there any Australians who can write a paragraph or two without resorting to vulgarity? And all that “mate” stuff. It’s so juvenile. Australia the country that never grew up.

          • ya reckon?
            and thats from the land of the great american dream?
            wake the f up mate;-)
            roflmao

            lets say were a tad in your face and blunt
            or the ones that havent been yank style woke and pc’d

          • Embarrasing to say but I am Australian. On behalf of my less than fully literate countrymen, I apologise. In our defence, what can you expect for people who grow up in a country where the government has the two policies of wrap the populace in cotton wool and keep them stupid to keep them compliant?

        • Poor choice, Florida has a higher population density than Australia and significantly more aged folk. It’s not called ‘God’s waiting room’ for no reason.

          Oh and I have business interests in Victoria that are now in deep shyte consequence of the ‘lockdown’.

        • And just what is the point of masks in public- particularly outdoors? They reduce oxygen intake and increase CO2 intake- you’re basically breathing your own expelled air- real healthy. You do come across as a compassionate sort though like most lefties…

      • What is the source for your claim “the social isolation has been responsible for 1,000 more suicides than usual.” ?

        • On the numbers more broadly while COVID 19 deaths are obviously in focus, flu related deaths are way down and I imagine so are car accident related deaths and injuries and industrial accidents. On the other hand suicides may well be up as is domestic violence, deaths and otherwise. So? Pandemics are extremely disrupting to society. WHat gets me is that besides the economic downside which is substantial and grounds for community sharingthe burden is the focus by some of such utterly petty ‘freedoms’ like a basic hygene action like wearing a mask or easing off in what are, lets face it, discretionary activities like going to movies, restaurants and bars. Most of what we see from the ‘protesters’ is just puerile whining as if these little princesses and princelings have been deprived of their birthright.

          Gee, the French aristocaracy at Versailles had nothing on these whining so and so’s. Let them uber eat Macca’s.

        • Tony
          Valid question.
          We will have too wait and see.
          Victoria has very good records, but they are slow.
          Suicides up or down???
          Lose job, business goes broke – suicides up.
          Casino closed – suicides down ( anecdotally some late night single vehicle run off road accidents are people leaving casino)

        • probably the moaning simps from the abc pushing the “trauma”a and loss” and whatever they always manage to find when theyre imagining and creating some more snowflakery in the social issues nirvana
          if someone wants to exit then let em, o course people mourn their loses of friends etc but is the leavee better off with a lifetime of useless meds therapists and misery?
          often , not.

      • High Treason wrote “We should be questioning the motives behind the hysteria. Politicians, mainstream media etc. Daniel Andrews going full-on CCP style lockdowns, with stage 5 being mooted.”

        The answer is very straightforward and requires no level of conspiracy theory.

        Simply, the government made a terrible blunder with the first lockdown, which achieved nothing because

        1. The government failed to undertake large sample antibody testing to determine the penetration of the virus into the general population.

        2. With no evidence of how widespread the virus was, they foolishly assumed that community penetration was close to zero and therefore
        a) that any cases coming to light through hospital admission were isolated;
        b) that all infections could be traced and isolated.
        c) that, especially given a) above where they have deaths as a percentage of known cases – these being by and large hospital admissions – the virus must be very, very deadly, warranting extreme government action.

        Shortly after the first lock down, it becomes evident that the virus is much more widely spread. Instead of reviewing assumptions, which would include the lethality of the virus, the government doubles down by taking the path that the virus was beaten except for a relatively small number of roguish persons and miscreants who have undone all the good work the government has done. Therefore, an even harsher lockdown regime is required.

        In summary, the government is trying to cover its tracks for the blunders it has made from the start. But it is in company, many western governments have fallen into the same trap and lack the maturity to admit mistakes.

        But people are starting to see through the smoke screen.

        • Seriously, what’s with the lack of random sampling of both active virus and antibody testing?

          That should be the first data collected to determine the prevalence.
          7 billion people on the planet.
          You can’t test them all.

          Hard not to be sceptical when they fail the first step required to get a handle on the situation.

          • Agree, the straight forward explanation is that many governments and their advisors are basically incompetent and make too many decisions from a political standpoint.

            The scare stories had spread rapidly thanks to our relatively new era of mass internet connectedness and the political decision was to pander to the fear.

        • Yeah, pretty much Krudy. The virus is probably widespread at low levels throughout Australia and this is obviously true in Victoria, but with over 1.8 million tests as of yesterday, an 0.8% positive rate is not very scary. Andrews does seem to have royally cocked-up, though, and is in way over his abilities. Creepy looking guy too.

          I used to wonder why no well designed antibody testing was being carried out and when I mentioned that to friends, they tended to freak out. No one wants to give up the illusion that the virus can be eliminate. Turns out antibody tests are not very reliable and such a large proportion of the population have innate or cross-reactive immunity from cold coronas viruses that the data would be very hard to interpret anyway.

          We won’t get out of this until the MSM gives up on its panic porn, YouTube and Google stop the censuring, and some reasonable voices can be heard.

          • “…until the MSM gives up on its panic porn, YouTube and Google stop the censuring…”

            So, never?

          • Yes Dave.

            What frustrates me is that while the MSM are gleefully pleased to inform people there were ‘Three Hundred New Cases” (or whatever) they are utterly failing to mention Victoria has been testing at nearly 30,000 a day.

            When you are actively looking for trouble and still struggling to get a 2% return the adult conclusions should be that the virus is minor.

            Remember that in context this virus is meant to spread at an alarming and destructive rate. We are told constantly that just one person can infect the entire room and then each of those people can go on to infect a totally new entire room. If that is really the case the daily numbers of new cases should have rapidly increased into the thousands.

            They are not.

            If you take the daily figures and compare Day N to Day N+1 (to give you the change in new cases as a percentage of the day before) then the trend is actually downwards and has been since Mid June.

          • I think the point is the body does not develop antibodies to this virus at all. The T-cells do the heavy lifting, but the next step of specific antibodies does not occur with this virus. Hence no human immunity, hence no possible vaccine…

    • One story is Bill Gates. Yeah, he founded Microsoft, but of course he has other investments–such as vaccine companies. If he gets us used to this level of violence, so he can FORCE everyone to take his vaccine–twice or more, with “uncommon” (his word) side effects of 70 to100%–Bill Gates will make tens of billions of dollars. More money is intensely important to super-wealthy–that’s how they got that way.

      Bill Gates, Fraudy Fauci, and many others are trying to sell you something.

      • Bill Gates??? Rather odd that he is promoting a vaccine when the product he made where he acquired his wealth is attacked by the minute with viruses. He never did find a cure for those viruses and we are supposed to believe he did this time around?

    • Watch the legislation that is being passed in amongst the fake virus stuff it might interest you.

    • Victoria is the WOKEST state of Australia.

      Very high level of immigration.

      Social diversity drove the selection of guards for hotel security – so a large proportion of muslim persuasion (I could not write that on an Australian blog and get it published).

      Eid al-Fitr celebrations occurred the weekend after easing on family gatherings – although gatherings were supposedly limited to 20 people, that could be interpreted as a rolling 20 with a dozen or so turnover every hour in a residential property or flat. This caused massive community spread.

      BLM marches estimated over 10k people were permitted despite limit on gatherings of 20 people.

      Victoria will remain isolated from other Australian States and the rest of the world until the genie is back in the bottle – that takes about 4 weeks of concerted effort – easy in a less woke place that does not have the abundance of self-important nitwits who infest Victoria.

      Really it is easy enough to avoid any restrictions by simply claiming to be a drug addict in need of a fix. The free injecting room is open 24/7 and needing a legal fix is one of the legal reason not to follow the curfew.

      The testing and contact tracing system is paper based and shambolic with people having the virus being told they tested negative and people who had a negative result being told they are positive; it is an administrative mess; just like the hotel quarantine. The tracing system is now overwhelmed hence the need for more severe quarantine.

      Breaking the window of a vehicle for some self-entitled, privileged woman breaking the law is quite reasonable given the circumstances. My wife would shoot her for her uncaring attitude – our son is a physician in a COVID ward in one of the hotspot hospitals working 14 hour shifts covered head to toe in protective gear but still running the risk of exposure. Two young doctors in Melbourne have spent more than a week on ventilators. Old doctors do not want to attend COVID wards so that has created openings for younger doctors. Locums at registrar/senior doctor level are being offered $160/hour to work in COVID wards. Nurses are being flown in from other states to fill vacancies from nurses self-isolating (sometimes just needing a break rather than having COVID)

      • “RickWill August 9, 2020 at 5:17 pm

        Breaking the window of a vehicle for some self-entitled, privileged woman breaking the law is quite reasonable given the circumstances. My wife would shoot her for her uncaring attitude –…”

        What a dreadful comment fragment. I would like to see where in the Public Health Act, which I understand is being applied, it states a police officer can break the window of a car and remove the occupants. And where is the proof of an uncaring attitude that justifies shooting (Of course there is no justification, we may just go shoot someone for any uncaring attitude)? That attitude brings us to the brink of anarchy much like what happened in the US recently with CHAZ and CHOP.

        • Victoria is in a declared state of Disaster. It comes under the Emergency Management Act. It does NOT fall under Public Health Act.

          The state of Disaster is specifically aimed at giving police additional authority to act. There is no legal impediment to extracting a law breaker from a vehicle. In the USA they would typically be shot first before the extraction.

          The last time a state of Distaster was declared in Victoria was January 2020. That enabled the armed forces to be used in the evacuation of people from their homes. There were 28 Victorians who lost their life to bushfires in 2020. Some may have not been in the best of health and succumb to a bit of heat and smoke. Victoria lost more people in the last TWO days to COVID just to put the current situation in perspective; many times worse than the bushfires.

          • “RickWill August 10, 2020 at 12:50 am

            Victoria is in a declared state of Disaster.”

            Really?

          • “In the USA they would typically be shot first before the extraction.” I think if that was true there would be real protests and many more police officers shots. You watch too much television and do not understand the US. The reason there are protests support the police in the US is because they generally are well trained and act professionally.

      • Your authoritarian compliance has been duly noted. You are welcome to any belief that you want but you have NO business forcing it on others.

        As to your son I wish him well. Is he taking HCQ+ as a prophylactic? Is he aware of the nebulizer inhaled steroid treatments Japan, Taiwan & Singapore are using to great effect?

        Dr. Richard Bartlett

        • He is not taking HCQ. He is a physician and requires solid evidence based trials before prescribing anything. He found the retrospective COVID death rate comparison between the countries taking HCQ and not taking HCQ interesting but there could be other factors; possibly age profile of populations. He is required to take the flu shot each year and maintains adequate level of Vitamin D through diet supplement because he does not get to see much sunlight.

          In Australia they are prescribing a range of anti-virals and steroids including Remdesivir. The latter only to limited numbers in serious condition. There are triage decisions being made. They will not subject a frail patient to rigours of intubation for example.

          He has lost one patient in his ward that he admitted. She was admitted to a smaller hospital suffering a heart attack. She contracted COVID in that hospital and was transferred to his hospital which is noted for its cardiac care. She died a week after admission when he was off shift. (That case has some legal implications and the sort of situation why it is difficult to get much detail on deaths)

          What people outside the hospital system do not appreciate is the added work load created by the PPE requirement and the risk of spread among patients and staff. He has found it easiest to do a 14 hour shift in his ward without break to avoid full change of PPE. They use a new apron for each patient. Any patient presenting at the hospital has to be treated as COVID positive until verified otherwise. Keeping admissions separated in emergency rooms is a challenge.

          Anyone with severe flu like symptoms is admitted to a suspected COVID ward and they spend at least a night until the test result comes in. That creates a lot of work in admitting and releasing patients. If positive they have to initiate the tracking process. The suspected COVID wards have high turnover between release and transfer to COVID positive wards. The latter has a higher density of beds than the suspected COVID.

          My son had a roster change from 4 x 14 hour shifts with 4 days off to 14 then 8 and so on for 7 days then a week off. That gives him ample time to refresh.

          Last week he was transferred to a smaller hospital in a hotspot serving the northern suburbs of Melbourne. He said it is a shambles. He said he was spending up to 4 hours a shift notifying staff from this hospital and satellite clinics that they needed to self-isolate because they had a positive test result. Some staff just ring in to say they are self-isolating (maybe to get a break because they are run down) but that involves having a test and a negative result before coming back to work.

          The only upside for him is that younger doctors are getting a lot of experience keeping people alive because older doctors avoid COVID wards if they can. From his experience, if you are a male over 40yo you literally want to avoid COVID like the plague. People in this category admitted are likely to get worse between day 5 and day 10 and have a long recovery or die. More than 90% of people admitted to hospital recover but about half will have an experience they will never forget, a very small number in Australia do not come through.

      • agreed and while I mightnt shoot the stupid cow refusing t o comply I and many others would like to see em shipped off to Woomera for a nice holiday. xmas island would cost US too much.

        hope your son stays safe and well kudos to him for his efforts.

  1. Without an effective vaccine, all you can do is slow down the spread – you cannot “prevent” infections to any practical measure. The faster the spread, the faster you get it all over with – BUT you have to keep the spread low enough to allow for effective health services. Talk about a game of balance.

    If any Aussie states that they can prevent the disease from spreading into their territories they are dreaming. There are just too many people coming and going, anyone of which could carry the infection undetected.

    The U.S. with it’s porous borders AND air travel is in much worse odds at any containment, but since it is already widespread here all we have left is to slow it down – containment isn’t even a dream.

    If immunity only lasts 3 months as some have suggested, it is time for people to begin re-contracting the disease – wow would that be a problem. They likely would get much milder symptoms but they could then become a vector for the diastase once again. I personally do not buy this “short immunity” scenario but it could happen. With any luck a strong immunity will last 9 months in most people.

    9 months is enough time to begin immunizing the populations. Even a 20% immunization will slow down the disease drastically (mixed with natural immunity of people who have already had the disease).

    • Restrictions inside Queensland have been relaxed for almost 2 months with almost zero new cases, so there is evidence an extreme lockdown can deliver. There is no way Queensland came anywhere near herd immunity.

      • I cant speak for QLD, but in my own little state, the government is intent on ‘saving lives’.
        17% of all people employed here (pre-covid) were employed in Tourism, today those jobs just do not exist.
        Saving lives whilst destroying livelihoods are antithetical concepts.

        • Interestingly tourism in Queensland, at least in my area, has made a significant recovery. When most of the state borders were briefly opened before the latest Victorian outbreak, many thousands of people stuck in high risk cities made a break for it and dashed for safety. Many of them are still here, most of the local motels and caravan parks have no vacancies.

          • Eric,

            My wife is heading to SA in September. She first has to stop in Queensland and spend two weeks in isolation in a hotel selected by the government. Luckily she got her tickets soon enough not to have to pay the $3000 isolation fees (room and food) currently being charged to those who didn’t get their tickets soon enough. Once she gets the two weeks in Queensland out of the way then she flies to SA and spends another two weeks in self isolation. If she didn’t have a home to go to she would be spending and paying for another two weeks in a hotel chosen by the SA government.

            This has to hurt tourism badly in all the Oz states. Too much money spent to get out of isolation and too much time spent in isolation that would normally be spent on touristy things.

            No one is coming from out of country and no one is crossing state lines. The tourism industry in each state is dead until these isolations are lifted.

        • Comrade Dan is determined to destroy the village in order to save it.

          • At the moment, getting to my little state mostly requires people to transit through Melbourne – something few are brave enough to attempt, let alone getting the authority to travel from my state government.

      • Can you imagine the angst in Victoria over the other States vying to host the AFL grand final!

        That will almost certainly be the downfall of Dopi Dan.

        The daily dose of AFL football is one of the very few factors keeping Victorians sane. There has been a significant increase in Victorians seeking quotes for removalists to move too Queensland.

        The transition of the Victorian economy from industrial to tourism and teaching is not looking so good now. The economy has taken a huge hit and it will not recover quickly. Losing 10 football teams to Queensland for 2020 takes a lot of income from the State.

      • “… so there is evidence an extreme lockdown can deliver.”

        Sorry Eric,

        Not completely convinced.

        Are you in a position to expand on your argument?

        The problem with ‘Lockdown’ and arguing for it’s continued use is that it can mean anything the supporter wants it to mean. ‘Closing the Borders’ – something I do support, at least at international level – is not lockdown.

        Lockdown, in our context, has the intention of preventing spread by preventing all social interaction for all people. The practice however has been that like most half arsed government ideas the full implications have never been considered and the massive list of exceptions (aka Bottleshops) have rendered the other restrictions meaningless.

        So, I put it to you that ‘lockdown’ is not only a myth in practical terms, but has also done very little that could not have been covered by a sensible ‘if you are sick, STAY HOME’ policy.

        Your expanded comments – maybe in a new article – would be welcome 😀

      • So inside Queensland you can now live normal again? If so it might be worth it, although of course Queensland will have to self isolate from the rest of the world for the next two years or so. But having visited Queensland it is a very large and beautiful place, so probably not that bad. I just hope the people of Queensland realize they will need to keep this up for one year at least, but likely longer. This as even if a vaccine arrives, it will take time before Australia’s position in line is on deck and gets it internally distributed. And perhaps there will be no vaccine, or no full proof vaccine or a vaccine that will only work for some time, etc. So it is a gamble, which I’m not sure everybody understands.

        As a Dutchman who lives in the US, and has traveled during COVID to both EU and back to the US, I like the Dutch approach better than my US Blue state tactic though. The Dutch did the classic flatten the curve to easy healthcare pressure, but then opened up rapidly with more loose measures. Yes, accept more cases, but keep a more normal life, keep schools open, swimming pools open, no masks in supermarkets or other retail shops, amusement parks and zoos to take my kids, keep seeing families, etc. And fairly free travel to neighboring countries. Coming back to the US that was a bummer coming back with planned closed schools and so many stressed out neighbors. I mean, it is a risk and I’m trying to also be smart, but to live your live so much in fear seems very unpleasant.

        I mean freedom has its price, and my own elderly parents would be infuriated if I would not come over to see them, if I would decide for them it is to risky. And my Dutch friends all say their elderly parents/family feel the same way and stress them they want to see their family despite risks. Some risks are worth it. The Netherlands is also to open and to small and not an island, so lockdowns are not possible anyway.

        But of course in Democracies we all pick our strategy (unless you voted for ‘the other’ party perhaps). I feel though as for many countries, states and parties the true colors come, out now. Not all pleasant, and not all what I suspected.

      • Eric, there can be no herd immunity when there is no immunity. Forget herd immunity, it is not relevant to this virus at all. It will reinfect people after a few months. If you have it once and suffered permanent tissue damage then the second and subsequent infections will cause progressive degeneration and eventually death. That is the way this bioweapon was designed to work.

        • How do you know that? As far as I know no re-infections occurred anywhere in the world? Perhaps it is just too soon, but typically anti-bodies disappear after some time, depending on type of virus month to years, but in most cases T-cells remember, and will start producing various anti-bodies *immediately* when the virus or a similar virus re-emerges.

          SARS patients from 17 years go, have no anti-bodies, but their T-cells are confirmed to start producing anti-bodies when confronted with COVID-19. Even T-cells produced as a result from the common corona viruses start producing multiple anti-bodies (*) immediately. How effective these are is an open question, but typically it is more than 0%. That is also how the body evolved dealing with mutating viruses like flu and the many viruses causing common cold like diseases. The body will still ‘attack’ similar viruses later in life, typically reducing severeness significantly.

          Immune systems are complicated chemical soups. Immunity against any decease is hence never 0% or 100% but a complicated gray scale. It would be earth shattering if a recovered COVID-19 patient would have 0% immunity after a few months. There is no indication this virus is unique, as it is in fact just another corona virus of a family that compromises literally thousands. So it is almost certain recovered patients will have T-cells from various backgrounds that start producing anti-bodies again when re-infected.

          *) One of the complications is that most vaccines focus only on anti-bodies targeting the main receptor of COVID-19. So although they seem in tests to get strong anti-body response, actual T-cell response from real patients produces in many case less anti-bodies, but a wider range of anti-bodies also ‘attacking’ other parts of the virus. That combined with the fact that patients with mild symptoms have actually *less* anti-bodies than patients which had more issues fighting off the illness, shows that there is more to immunity then just having a large amount of anti-bodies.

    • (Robert of Texas writes) “If immunity only lasts 3 months” and I personally do not buy this “short immunity” scenario but it could happen.”

      There is no end of these alarmist scenarios, is there? Isn’t it patently unlikely that a person’s T-cells would “forget” a challenging viral attack in just three months? The virus might more plausibly mutate into hard to recognize strains, I suppose, but that’s another matter. Any new new viral strains or variations might be less lethal, or maybe even that much worse if you are a pessimist. It’s just one more ‘impossible to predict’ thing to worry about, maybe.

      Another story I’ve come across lately is that even mild cases of CoVID can cause permanent heart damage! Now there is no particular reason to believe that one, either. What I think is happening is that some people are just correlating comorbidities and assuming that CoVID is the cause of whatever else is going on? Correlation is assumed to be causation — it’s the same old excuse for alarmism — Every. Doggoned. Confabulated. Time.

    • “a 20% immunization will slow down the disease drastically (mixed with natural immunity of people who have already had the disease)”

      Nobody ever mentions this, but couldn’t there also be “natural immunity” of some people with strong immune systems, as well as carryover immunity from previous exposure to similar viruses? Both would work in favor of attaining herd immunity sooner.
      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/08/06/study-common-colds-train-the-immune-system-to-fight-covid-19/

      Also note that the all-causes death rate for the USA is only 10% above the average for the three previous years since the start of February. And if you remove the figures reflecting the botched policies of New York City, it’s even closer to the average. See the state by state data in Table 2 at https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

      • I agree, there is no way of knowing for sure why Australia got off lightly, or why this seems to be going wrong right now in Victoria.

        I suspect relatively low population density + humid weather may have played a role. But I’m not discounting the hard lockdowns as a factor.

        • Cross immunity reaction (especially in Asia) seems to be a growing hypothesis. However, the barn door seems to have been swung open in Victoria at least, so this story is nearer the beginning than the end.

          • A lot of people I talk to blame the hypocrisy of the Victorian state government going soft on BLM protests, while allegedly cracking down on assemblies of groups Victoria’s hard left politicians don’t like. Some of the early cases in the latest outbreak were people who attended BLM protests, though it is not clear whether the protests were actually to blame for the current outbreak.

        • Eric.
          There seems good reason to believe that COVID is following the normal seasonal flu pattern….. We have come out of a summer with most of the population (other than invalids and the old) having spent a reasonable time outdoors and hence having reasonably high vitamin D levels. As we spend more time indoors and out of the sun, flu normally ramps up at this time of year.

          The lie in the media is that this is some kind of “second wave” in Victoria.

          • Absolutely, there is strong evidence Covid-19 is seasonal. Vitamin-D may play a role, but it might also be moderated by weather conditions, like higher Summer humidity.

            I spoke to a virologist acquaintance a month ago, asked whether it would return in winter in the USA. He said “maybe”. The USA likely does not have a natural animal reservoir where the disease can hide when it is eliminated from human populations, which might help eliminate US cases, but on the other hand it is a nasty chronic pneumonia. A handful of unusually long term Covid-19 carriers with minimal symptoms could act as a source of a new wave of infection when favourable weather conditions return.

          • There is almost no evidence COVID is seasonal. We see strong outbreaks in Europe and southern US during the two hottest months of the year.

            Unless that is what you mean. But that is not due to weather or seasons, but behaviour. Current outbreaks are mostly caused by 20’ers and 30’ers not social distancing. Completely predictable, and part of the normal life behaviour of these age groups, but in other cultures this may mean also other times for outbreaks. It was no coincidence the European outbreak exploded during Europe carnival and winter-break/ski-vacation period, even though we now know it circulated since at least late December 2019 in some of those places.

            So if it come back in fall, it is because people will be in cramped public transportion, or perhaps socialise in small private settings again, not so much due to vitamin D.

        • there is no way of knowing for sure why Australia got off lightly

          Australia was initially close to achieving what Taiwan achieved. Effective border controls, effective quarantine of those infected, effective contact tracing and reducing community spread by staying apart.

          Victoria failed on the hotel quarantine then eased restrictions the day before Eid al-Fitr celebrations. I know for a fact that the first surge in cases in Victoria were all muslim from families of recent immigrants from southern Mediterranean and sub-saharan countries. That is why the Victorian health officer made the plea to the muslim community ahead of Eid al-Adha in August. Why Bachar Houli made this plea:
          https://www.foxsports.com.au/video/afl/afl/houli-shares-covid-message!779504

          There is no magic here – it is a simple matter of depriving the virus of hosts. It requires a few weeks of disciplined effort.

          Australia is a highly productive economy which can provide the basic necessities with a handful of people working in contact with others. Most of the GDP is based on meeting “wants” rather than “needs”. There is no NEED for people to gather in groups. The few areas of high density housing in Melbourne clearly created special problems that some countries face at much high levels.

          • There are a few aspects you avoided, RickWill, although you didn’t shirk the muslim factor.

            Taiwan did *not* close down its’ domestic economy, although it closed international borders almost instantly. I heard the Taiwanese Deputy Director of Health on a webinar about 10 days ago – the only closures were the karaoke bars for about 2 weeks, nothing else. He also stated that masks were of very little use in general public terms but did provide some measure of public “reassurance” (ie. a form of panic placebo).

            Further, and I have seen you state this before, you seem to think that the mining industry runs on very few people yet will supply you and your city mendicants a never-ending money stream from exports. (“Australia is a highly productive economy which can provide the basic necessities with a handful of people working in contact with others” – your quote).

            You appear to have very little concept of how modern mining works. It requires, no wriggle room, a constant, large two-way flow of people and material over both internal and international borders. It requires, no wriggle room, a constant input of detailed geological and engineering information ahead of workings, obtained by teams of people on shift FIFO and machinery that needs constant maintenance with parts and equipment that are imported. And that’s each and every operational mine, on constant deadlines. No fortnightly quarantine each time each way can be tolerated.

            I’ve been heavily involved with this industry for over 40 years world-wide. I will admit your off-handed presumptions on this topic have become annoying. And like you, I have commented here because Aus blogs, including Nova’s, will censor this.

          • You appear to have very little concept of how modern mining works. It requires, no wriggle room, a constant, large two-way flow of people and material over both internal and international borders.

            You clearly have no idea about Australian mining. Most of the mining output is exported in 200kt bulk carriers. The mining is largely automated. Iron ore trains and trucks are controlled, even operated from 2000km away in WA. A single observer in a 20kt train train for mine to port. Unloading trains is all automated. The bulk carriers are loaded with automatic machines:
            https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Dampier+WA+6713/@-20.6521531,116.6633516,1710m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x2bf63c12901b7c1f:0x28bc6ac359455c8c!8m2!3d-20.662122!4d116.7107712

            The coal industry on the east coast has a similar level of automation whether long-wall miners underground or draglines and shovels for open cut. Coal trains and ports have a similar level of automation loading 200kt bulk carriers:
            https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Hay+Point+QLD+4740/@-21.2561362,149.294981,3255m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x6bdbcf7acc8633a9:0x400eef17f208720!8m2!3d-21.2948785!4d149.2561568

            These are not Micky Mouse operations that you might have some knowledge of. These are world class operations with the highest productivity in the world.

            Both WA and QLD governments understood the importance of protecting these vital operations. Both states implemented border controls early and they are still in place. Most of the mines have local domiciled work force. It is mostly the small, very remote mines that have FIFO operations.

        • Eric Worrall – It is far too early to know anything “for sure”. We are only 6 months into a pandemic – we will know nothing for sure for another couple of years , Countries differ so much geographically, culturally and demographically (perhaps even genetically and racially) – which all determines how the virus behaves in a specific location.

    • I left a comment above that shows how this virus can cause long-lasting effects.

      Are you sure you wish a large population to have epilepsy and scarred hearts and not be able to drive or exercise due to those conditions?

      • Many acute illnesses cause long-term problems, including flu, hanta, boriella and strep and many more. Until it is demonstrated that there is significantly greater risk from post Covid symptoms, lets not help the MSM with their fear campaign.
        Fran
        You also need to give some time for recovery: my neighbour, a health food antivaxer type got the flu last year. She was very sick for 3 weeks. Then it was another 3-4 months before she got back to normal.

    • Robert,
      New Zealand has now gone 100 days without a case of community transmission. There are currently 23 active cases all of which are from returning residents were are all in mandatory quarantine. So it is clear that you can stop COVID-19 simply by have a proper lockdown routine that everybody follows.

      • Yes but you see the attitude in posts above that also exists in many Victorians. It only takes a few idiots not to follow the rules and it all goes to mush. That is why we have the joke about COVID

        Citizens Of Victoria Ignoring Directives (COVID)

      • Izaak Walton – It is indeed very clear that you can stop an infectious illness by proper lockdowns – but only if the epidemic is not endemic.

        Sooner or later, the New Zealand will cop it – unless they isolate themselves in their islands for ever. They are sitting there now, feeling so smug in their islands – but they are as ripe for a killer wave of Covid 19 as is a tinder dry forest for a run-away bush fire in the middle of summer.

      • “Izaak Walton August 9, 2020 at 8:41 pm

        New Zealand has now gone 100 days without a case…”

        So? Totally meaningless!

        Wait 100 days, don’t test, zero infections!

    • NT WA and Qld all had no cases until OS or Vic travellers turned up,
      so yes my states in the bad books and deservedly so;-(
      we really did nearly hit the zero mark and returned travelers /hotels n / lousy quarantine kept exposed the entire state all over again
      its a corona virus the immune system is always a bit shoddy with those ie the common cold or somevariants i know Ive had multiple colds in any given yr as a kid and as an adult pick 4? coronas and a few rhinoviruses and mix n shuffle,

      damned sure I wont be taking any Crispr tech Mrna vax, and a wait n see on the standard types also
      I see usa vax willing is now down to 40ish % say they would too.
      we dont like covid- but we trust big pharma and billyggates even less

  2. Australians have no rights as they are known in the States. We don’t have freedom of speech or similar. If we get to have any speech at all, it’s because they let us, not because it’s a right. Most Australians don’t know just how totalitarian we actually are.

    • Fair comment.
      But I think it is because times are so good.
      Any war or major disaster, we will say f the rules and get on with it.
      Australians are NOT rule followers, that is our culture.
      This culture will show when its really needed.

    • Greg,
      Possibly you are making the modern mistake of not wanting to do novel acts until government approves of them, with the far better alternative of doing acts that you like and objecting to efforts of governments and others to stop you.
      Freedom of speech, free enterprise, hallmarks of the libertarian approach, have long been shown as preferable to oppressive socialism. Geoff S

    • Greg you miss the point Australian laws are based in reverse they describe what is unlawful unlike US laws which ascribes rights. You have can do anything that isn’t unlawful, that isn’t totalitarian at all you simply need to make sure the list of unlawful things remains small and concise.

      • I would add, I doubt there are many Australians who want a bill of rights and the endless legal challenges to everything that would then come. If it aint broke don’t fix it.

      • i was surprised to find painting my roof in camo would be “unlawful”
        i had visions of disguising the rusty spots;-)
        not sure why its illegal though
        think it was a law before spyeyes google earth existed
        reckon its so you can “hide” a building from the councils etc for rates and regs applications

  3. Flu kills 300-3,000 Australians each year. Peak season, which is now, would account for a larger percentage of the deaths of the comorbid. The deaths per day is what you would expect in peak flu season. However, we don’t put the entire state or nation in to a coma for over half the year because of the flu. The current measures will take 10 years to recover from, all based on hysteria and (deliberate?) gross incompetence.
    The common cold and seasonal flu are both coronaviruses. Big news, someone has a cold and went to the pub for a beer. In the US and rumours here in Australia that institutions are paid a bounty to report deaths as being from COVID. The media are constantly trying to beat up stories of younger people dying of COVID. They have been caught out a few times (eg the 30 year old man in Queensland who died of cancer being used as a political football.) Think about it- OUR tax dollars being used to corrupt institutions on our payroll to promote hysteria that aids a particular political agenda. Are your alarm bells ringing loudly?
    The COVID mass hysteria scam is just the latest fear campaign, like cAGW to destroy our society. Add BLM to the mix and we should all be waking up. Note, BLM in Australia is based on the assumptions that all indigenous deaths in custody since the Royal Commission in 1991 were from police brutality, Great research from Craig Kelly MP reveals that the indigenous death rate in prison is less than for non-indigenous and the deaths from police brutality since 1991 are…………..ZERO. Interesting coincidence that this figure is exactly the same as the amount of evidence that the 3% of CO2 that is from humans is the driving force of catastrophic or dangerous global warming/ “climate change.”
    What have cAGW and BLM have in common? Both are based on zero evidence and both seek to destroy our civilization.

    • Going by the Swedish death rate Australia could have had 10,000 deaths or more. There is no way of knowing for sure whether the Aussie lockdown helped Australia escape all those deaths, or whether our climate (warm, frequently humid) impedes transmission of Covid, but plenty of Australians believe the lockdown helped.

      • Australia of course still has/had deaths in nursing homes and elderly vulnerable populations who died of other causes. The background death rate and the rise in that rate is what tells us when epidemics begin and end.
        COVID pathology certainly accelerates that death rate so that “dying of corona virus” becomes serious and must be taken with utmost seriousness to keep it out of elder care settings.

        What will happen as herd immunity reaches protective levels, either through either natural, community-based infection and resulting acquired immunity or by vaccine acquired immunity, is that the background death rate will drop below the multi-year background average. To put it coldly and bluntly, the weakest and sickest were eliminated at elevated rates for time, resulting in a temporarily healthier, younger population and lowerall-cause death rate.

      • The way Queensland jumped on the three young ladies from Queensland who held a shoplifting spree in Melbourne and hosted a party while there resulting in hosting the virus then taking it back to Queensland demonstrates the vigilance that is necessary to keep the genie in.

        Most people in Australia get that. There are a few diehards who think that it is all a scam. A few overprivileged who think they are above the law. A few dingbats who think they are bulletproof until struck down by the virus. A few uncaring who just don’t give a dam about anyone else.

        The gold standard in the pandemic control is Taiwan. The rest of the world has largely failed by that standard. Sweden is a dismal failure but al least have a largely sensible population that understood what was needed when someone they knew had died or suffered badly from the virus.

        It is quite clear that around 500deaths/M of population is where enough sensible people take the necessary action to avoid becoming a host. That is about the level achieved in the muslim community in Melbourne. That group is now taking notice.

        The US is reaching the level, 498deaths/M of population, where people appreciate the consequences of letting the virus spread and are taking the necessary action to avoid being a host. It appears the infection rate got below 1 about 2 weeks ago:
        http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countries-normalized&highlight=United%20States&show=10&y=both&scale=linear&data=cases-daily-7&data-source=jhu&xaxis=left#countries-normalized

        The notion of herd immunity in a human population is silly. What intelligent person is going to expose themselves to a deadly virus that is easy enough to avoid.

        • “The gold standard in the pandemic control is Taiwan. The rest of the world has largely failed by that standard. ”

          BUT:
          1. “MUTATED COVID-19 VIRAL STRAIN IN U.S. AND EUROPE 10 TIMES MORE CONTAGIOUS THAN ORIGINAL STRAIN”

          Published: Jun 30, 2020 By Mark Terry in Biospace at https://www.biospace.com/article/mutated-covid-19-viral-strain-in-us-and-europe-much-more-contagious/

          “Researchers have been analyzing and tracking the novel coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, since it first appeared in China in January. Researchers at The Scripps Research Institute have found that the strains spreading so quickly in Europe and the U.S. have a mutated S “spike” protein that makes it about 10 times more infectious than the strain that originally was identified in Asia. The research was published online on bioRxiv at https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.12.148726v1.full.pdf and has yet to be peer-reviewed.”

          The National Review comments, “If it seems like the United States is having a tougher time controlling the spread of the coronavirus than Asian countries did in winter and early spring, that’s partially because this version of the virus is tougher to stop from spreading.” https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/four-assumptions-about-the-coronavirus/

          This explains to me why the lockdowns and contact tracing that worked in East Asia and Australasia will not work in America or Europe, or will not work as well. Nevertheless, Tedros, head of WHO, is still saying he is certain they will work. (They did work, apparently, in Germany.)

          NR continues: “The country enacted unprecedented, sweeping lockdowns that kept most Americans at home, at great cost to the economy. These lockdowns slowed the spread of the virus, but did not stop it. … [I]t’s important to recognize that no one is ignoring any simple or easy solutions, because such solutions don’t exist.”

          However, in a subsequent article, at https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/coronavirus-update-a-closer-look-at-the-recent-surge/:, NR concedes: “The promotion of mask-wearing and social distancing, and the increased focus on nursing homes, all could make a difference for the better.”

        • RickWill – you are manifestly wrong to state that “Sweden was a dismal failure”. Daily deaths there of people dying from Covid 19 are down from about 120 a day in March to practically zero today. They are over it. They have attained herd immunity. Yes, their economy is also damaged a lot because citizens there voluntarily chose to self-isolate – but small business owners are miles better off than here because they weren’t forced to shut up shop.

          • What a joke. Sweden have not maintained herd immunity. They are on summer vacation and staying apart. It will come back as soon as they try to get back to routine work and large groups of people. In fact infection rates are beginning to climb already:
            http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countries-normalized&highlight=Sweden&show=10&y=both&scale=linear&data=cases-daily-7&data-source=jhu&xaxis=left#countries-normalized

            Swedish strategy has killed 570/M of population. One of the worst results on the planet.

            All but one state in Australia has large crowds now at football venues and people moving freely within state boundaries. The one state that has failed in the first wave put social diversity ahead of competence when selecting security guards for monitoring hotel quarantine. A simple failure to properly administer an effective strategy. Then a comedy of errors saw it rapidly spread through the muslim community then into the wider community.

          • Taiwan had a death toll of 0.3/M of population. Sweden has 570/M of population and still counting. I consider 1,900 times the death of Taiwan more than dismal. It is quite appalling given the alternative.

            Taiwan had higher initial exposure being a trading partner and tourist destination for China. Taipei also has a much higher population density than any city in Sweden. Taiwan has experienced negligible impact on businesses. Sweden has record business failures.

            Anders Tegnel is clearly a dimwit leading a deadly strategy.

            Hopefully someone will author a paper on Taiwan’s pandemic response, get it peer reviewed and then published so Anders and his ilk can take notice of how a pandemic should be managed. It might be useful for the second wave that is just emerging.

      • Going by the Belarus death rate Australia could have 500 deaths.
        Going by the Taiwan death rate Australia could have 5 deaths.

        Hard if not downright impossible to compare the different countries.

        They count the positive/negative cases, hospitalisations and deaths differently.
        The climate is very different.
        The culture is very different.
        Some are wealthier than others but wealth doesn’t seem to be a big factor as some poor countries are doing just fine (Vietnam & Belarus).
        Early adoption of masks (first month) vs late (after 2 months or more).

  4. The underlying problem is that the federal government initially stated that the strategy was to “smooth the curve” and avoid the hospital system being overloaded. Without any public announcement (let alone discussion) this strategy has been changed to “eliminate” COVID. No “herd immunity”. Isolate the country and keep foreign visitors out until the rest of the world has recovered or an inoculation has been developed.

    And the strategy/price for that approach has been the trashing of the economy and the imposition of restricted personal freedom. The latter has been mild by the standards of other countries, but it has come as an unpleasant shock nevertheless. The public was prepared to put up with that as long as the strategy looked like it was working (and nobody thought too deeply about how flawed it was)

    Now that there have been renewed outbreaks, the public takes the view that all the personal and fiscal pain of the last five months has been for nothing; that we are back where we were in March. Moreover, they are collectively filthy with the Victorian government for its inept handling of the lockdown in Melbourne.
    They know they have been dudded and they are showing their contempt for the strategy any was they can.

    • Yes, the quiet shift from “flatten the curve” to “eliminate this virus” was done without science or public discussion and buy-in. And the main-stream media in all the Western countries were very complicit in that shift (in Late April and May) without being inquisitive or questioning.

    • “…and the imposition of restricted personal freedom. The latter has been mild by the standards of other countries”

      Not of you take Melbourne as standard. Then it has been very, very hard. Much harder than all of the US and most of Europe (Italy and a few placed in France excepted). Even in Michigan, which was likely the toughest of the US, you would be able to travel further, go out longer, buy more items and get lower fines. Also no US state and no Europeans used the military to repress (as opposed to provide other support) their own people in locking down people.

      Has the rest of Australia been more friendly?

  5. I applaud this rebellion. It is unconscionable that free citizens are subjected to such tyranny – and all just to stop the spread of a very ordinary, not even particularly dangerous virus, for heaven’s sake..

    So what, if people die by the thousands?? We die only one death each – which will catch up with us all, sooner or later. For 100,000 years humankind stood the risk of dying prematurely from any number of causes : accidents, wars, illnesses, famines, murders, etc.. We woke up every morning, knowing that this day might be our last. So what?? What has changed??

    • What has changed? The people hired to protect us may come and take us away and kill us in the name of socialism.

  6. Where I come from, if the police stop you, you have to provide your driver’s license, your insurance, and your vehicle registration. I can’t think of a jurisdiction where that isn’t the case.

    If you refuse to provide the required documents, the police can drag you from your car and arrest you.

    p.s. I don’t care what color you are, resisting arrest is really stupid.

    • But the police should not be able to ask you where you are going or where you have been. Nor should the police be allowed to have checkpoints to monitor travel. I respect the police. They need to respect me too.

    • Resisting arrests that are immoral and tyrannical is praiseworthy and courageous – and generations in the future will mention your name with admiration.

      • The police had to arrest the woman for her own safety. There were many in the community who would happily put a hammer through her privileged skull rather than the vehicle window.

        • For her own safety? I doubt it.

          And those “many in the community” are the same types of people who would burn witches at the stake or stone heretics to death in times past. Mob rule is never a good thing.

          • No it is mostly mothers of workers in hospital and age care homes who have constant exposure to the virus and need to be ever vigilant of hosting it at the risk of their own lives, the life of the people they care for or their families.

            Never get in the way of a mother and her child, of whatever age.

  7. How come they are driving on the wrong side of the road??
    (/chuckle off)

    Seriously, unless you are a small island nation like New Zealand and you have a realtively well-educated and compliant population where you can isolate your entire island from the rest of the world and still feed yourself, this virus is not going away. And New Zealand’s problem now is their population is like tall, tender-dry grass to a wild fire virus like SARS-2.
    Kiwis’ were absolutely lucky to get ahead of it quickly in February by imposing bans on most Chinese travelers and very strict quarantines on those arriving from China and elsewhere. But Jacinda and her government got a taste of near-tyrannical control of its population, and that heroin-like feeling of raw power probably now is screaming to get out in Jacinda and her ministers now that they’ve tasted it.

    • And now that Kiwi’s are disarmed and bought in heavily to climate scam, I predict that New Zealand will be the first English-speaking Western-style democracy to fall to the coming Marxist revolution.

      That means:
      – Detention centers for dissenters, including any who balk at arbitrary “quarantine orders”.
      – Cancelling of local and national elections and moving to new paradigms of installation of local leadership by central government in Wellington. Essentially only those who pass litmus tests of fealty to Jacinda and her ministers will be allowed at first to run for office, then eventually the charade of voting will be eliminated altogether.
      -Dissent and any protests will be dealt with harshly with police powers using “quarantine” excuses and control measures to silence trouble-makers. Those “who would threaten public safety by spreading this Corona Virus to a very susceptible population will be labeled and sent to the new Gulags.

      Yes, smallish New Zealand will be the first where the Marxists move on to get their feet wet and work out the kinks, while the media remains silent and in increasing levels of fear to speak out.

    • “Kiwis’ were absolutely lucky to get ahead of it quickly ……….” –

      Absolute nonsense – We Kiwis were absolutely and terribly unlucky that the Jacinda Ardern government chose to initiate the harshest, most inhumane, strictest lockdown regime in the world in order to eliminate the virus – not just to slow it down. It will prove to be the most expensive and emotionally harmful wild goose chase ever. Endemic viruses cannot be eliminated, period.

      It was known already in March, before New Zealand’s lockdown, that the illness was globally endemic.

      • I acknowledge that NZ’s lockdown was absolutely harsh by reconizing that now the Ardern government is being commended by Leftist press around the world. They didn’t live through that harshness.

        But that feeling of power and the praise Jacinda got is like a drug, an opiate. Very powerful.
        And she will not hesitate to keep taking another hit, to get that self-affirming heroin-rush like feeling that power gives her and her ministers.

        Average Kiwi’s are going have to get your Haka onto fight back agains the coming Marxist push from your government.

      • Agreed. And she is on the hard sell to re-build the economy that her Govn’t single handedly destroyed. I don’t think NZ$300mil is going to be enough to do that but it might just be enough for her to win again.

      • Joel and Andy.
        What a load of trot.
        There is a significant difference between compliant and intelligent.
        Our life is pretty much normal, unemployment figures released last week were 4%, and expected to rise to 8% by the next quarter. It would be fair to say that we have a great respect for each other, and understand that sometimes you need to stop thinking of yourself. Most people enjoyed the holiday of the lock-down.
        Everything is open, 40,000 people attending footy games and enjoying a beer after.
        I am able to visit my aging mother in a elderly care center, sign in, bit of stuff for the hands, no mask, life is great
        How is your lot getting on.
        Andy, if you don’t like it emigrate, and as Muldoon said many years ago, the intelligence of both countries will increase.
        With the fondest almost Covid free regards

        • I’m going to bookmark this comment. I’ll check back when your summer rolls around. This virus cannot be contained, it can be slowed. That’s it.

          • Joel
            As long as we keep the infected out, those people with rights, we should be fine.
            All the best from paradise.

        • Dopi Dan in Victoria is the same political persuasion as Ardern. The difference is that Ardern has leadership qualities; notably a firm hand. Incredibly tight control. If something was not working it was fixed effectively – no delays.

          Dopi Dan is an apologist. He apologises for the restrictions. He says the police do not like fining people (for breaking the law). What is their f’n job!

          New Zealand probably gets second prize to Taiwan setting a high bar.

          • She’s working her way to a top job at the UN, just like Herr Clarken Fuhrer before her.

        • Ozonebust – “Most people enjoyed the holiday of the lockdown”. Well yes, we did – because we are well off, have secure jobs, secure income, roomy homes (like all our legislators, by the way!).

          But for all those living on an economic knife-edge, who lost their jobs, whose businesses were only just ticking along from week to week, etc., it’s a different story altogether.

          I actually think enforced lockdowns are against established human rights. And I am pretty sure that in the next pandemic, in 30 or 50 years time, no country will ever enact such destructive legislation. We will accept dying natural deaths – as we always did it.

          • “She’s working her way to a top job at the UN, just like Herr Clarken Fuhrer before her.”
            What a twat. Adern did what Trump didn’t… made the hard decisions quickly. She didn’t lie, distort or play with the truth. She is a leader not a looser. Not a single community case in 100 days. NZ is in a place other countries dream of. Sometimes you have to restrict the rights of selfish idiots. It’s why she will win the coming election, where as Trump will be gone.

          • @Simon, I think two things can be true at the same time.

            Her harsh measured worked, but have a price. She needs to lock down for
            the next two years or so, which I’m not sure everybody realized yet.
            Also there is a risk politicians who get good grades for an emergency
            will abuse this to push though policies that are not well supported by
            most. Perhaps she will not be tempted, but many others in history have.

            Your comments about Trump though suggest either an emotional response,
            or a lack of understanding how the US works. Trump or Clinton both
            could not have done what NZ did. Not just because the US is not an
            isolated island, but because the US president does not have much power
            in terms of lockdowns and isolations. Lockdowns a president cannot do. And
            banning greencard holders (as opposed to visa’s) and citizens he/she also
            cannot do by constitutional restrictions. And Trump was even criticized by pretty much
            everybody when he did the Chinese and indeed too late EU travel ban.
            Also federal isolation of non-confirmed sick people is unconstitutional
            most scholars agree, which is why when I returned to the US from the EU despite an
            active travel ban was not *forced* to quarantine (despite media reports
            and some government websites suggesting you have to). CDC was there
            only at my gate to provide guidelines. My Blue state could have mandated it, but did not. Blame them. Of course I’m responsible and I did, but you know how it goes if no mandate is there. The real success and failures are from individual US state governors. They hold the real power here. So any failures you attribute to Trump are failures from the governors.

          • Simon August 10, 2020 at 4:00 am

            “She’s working her way to a top job at the UN, just like Herr Clarken Fuhrer before her.”

            What a twat.”

            What I said is true.

          • Simon August 10, 2020 at 4:00 am

            “She’s working her way to a top job at the UN, just like Herr Clarken Fuhrer before her.”

            What a twat.”

            Rather than actually trying to find some evidence to support your view, when they is much to support my view, you resort to insult.

            I bet you didn’t know Herr Clarken Fuhrer destroyed what was once the worlds best, publicly funded, health care system, the envy of the world, when she was “health minister” in the 1980’s?

          • “Simon August 10, 2020 at 4:00 am

            What a twat.”

            You do know that when you level insults like this to people in debate, you actually prove you have no argument.

    • Much of Australia is tropical, so for many of us “winter” means you can switch off the air conditioner on some days. But Victoria has nasty cold weather in winter, similar conditions to Wuhan in January.

    • It’s winter down under. Shouldn’t be a surprise they’re having outbreaks.

      What a remarkably ill-informed comment. The sole reason for the outbreak in Victoria can be directly traced to the woke policies that put social diversity ahead of competence in selecting individuals to secure hotel quarantine for returning travellers.

  8. How many other states are doing the same thing and FALSIFYING or intentionally MISREPRESENTING the effects of wearing masks as well as the number of cases and deaths in order to justify continuing the UNCONSTITUTIONAL mandates?

    Here is PROOF that public HEALTH officials are FALSIFYING DATA and CHARTS and LYING to justify imposing mask mandates and other CONTROL measures. From KANSAS:

    KDHE doctored a COVID case chart to justify mask mandates
    https://sentinelksmo.org/kdhe-doctored-a-covid-case-chart-to-justify-mask-mandates/

    Read the entire ROTTEN story, but this is the chart he doctored to make it look like counties that had NO mask mandate were doing WORSE than the masked ones, but the TRUTH is, the UNMASKED counties were doing MUCH BETTER.

    The reporter clearly read the chart as showing the masked counties (the orange line) now have fewer daily cases than the unmasked counties (the blue line).

    But the chart was consciously manipulated to produce that appearance by comparing the same data (cases per day) on different axes.

    Cases for mandate counties are based on the left axis, with a range of 15 to 25, while those without mandates are based on a secondary axis on the right, with a scale of 4 to 14.

    https://secureservercdn.net/45.40.148.147/sku.b8e.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/small-3.png

    Here is the same chart with BOTH lines using the same scale. The results look dramatically different when shown below on the same axis. The mask counties show a decline and the trend is down a bit for those without mandates. But Dr. Norman doesn’t want people to see that counties with mask mandates have about 77% MORE daily cases per capita than the counties without mandates.
    https://secureservercdn.net/45.40.148.147/sku.b8e.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/KDHE-replicated-one-axis-696×305.png

    • Masks are ineffective. Most of the common surgical and clothe masks used now reduce virus induction from breathing by an infected person into an enclosed room by about 60% from what they other wise would. That sounds substantial right?

      60% reduction. Wow!!! That sounds like a lot! …. Nope.

      As a virologist, I can tell you everything we do in measuring infectivity in laboratory virus cultures is measured and plotted on log10 scales. Why log scale? Because a 60% reduction in infectiousness is in the noise of the our measurements of infectivity. And going from say 2.5 million infectious particles per mL down to 1.0 million infectious particle per mL (a 60% reduction) is hardly noticeable when measurement error bars are applied at log scales.

      And so if a mask reduces the odds of someone passing a virus onto to another in an enclosed room from 95% probability down to 90% probability, that is not really measurable in the real world when all the other important things like time spent in proximity becomes more important.

      So these clothe and loose fit surgical masks, as they are being done now, are ineffective. They are feel good measures.

      • They are feel good measures.

        That is a very powerful aspect in displaying community care. Intelligent, caring communities defeat the virus much faster than communities dominated by belligerent, uncaring, self-important individuals.

        • RickWill – You are talking pure nonsense. Logically, “Feel good measures” are NOT a “very powerful aspect in displaying community care”. They are a very powerful aspect only in making yourself feel good.

          And no matter how intelligent and caring your community is, it cannot “defeat a virus” (except if it is not endemic).

    • This reminds me of a chart shown of CBS Morning News in a segment on climate change. It showed the temperature anomalies for February across the US (this was about ten years ago). The entire map was various shades of red. I was curious because I knew they’d had Avery cold winter in the West. So I looked up the original NOAA map, and sure enough there was a huge cold anomaly over the West. CBS had taken the absolute value of the anomalies so everything was red! Viewers only got a glimpse of the map, nor did the anchor mention that these were absolute values. This left the mistaken impression that the US was burning up.

  9. Note the weasel words used by the Police Commissioner in the quote “On at least four occasions in the last week, we’ve had to smash the windows of cars and pull people out to provide details because they weren’t adhering to the Chief Health Officer guidelines”

    Seriously bloke? you “had” to smash their windows? had to. Fot not “adhering to guidelines”? guidelines. There is a subset set of the Police in Victoria that enjoys the “vere are you papers!” ambiance just a littl too much. In the initial outbreak restriction the VIC Police were zealously fining people at 4 times the rate of the next highest prevalance State. The have done their image a fair bit of damage that will take quite a while to recover I think.

    • People laughed at me for stating that we were living in a police state in Victoria during the first lockdown – they aren’t laughing anymore. Curfews, work permits, random stops for checking papers, millions out of work – sure smells like a socialist police state now. All that’s left is to cancel any future elections.

  10. American “Sovereign Citizens” carry guns for just such occasions…Nazi uniform or not, break into my car with me in it and you get shot, especially for a warrant-less, unlawful search.

    • In Australia, if the cops get heavy handed, all that gets broken are a few windows. Some “Sovereign Citizen” weirdos may get their knickers in a twist but who cares?

      In the USA, if the cops get heavy handed, people die. And, depending on who got killed, other awful stuff may follow.

      I’m truly glad that we don’t have your inane insane gun laws.

      Hey, I though this was a climate blog, not a pro-gun anti-gun battlefield? Please, let’s get back to science.

      • “Joe from Perth August 9, 2020 at 6:52 pm

        In Australia, if the cops…”

        In Australia, until a few years ago, esp in NSW, never used to carry guns. That was until a 15 year old, brainwashed Muslim boy, shot a police accountant outside Police HQ in Parramatta in 2015 with an illegal gun.

        Now every sworn NSW officer while on duty carries a 9mm pistol.

        • Hmmm, police in Victora were carrying guns decades ago. Mostly revolvers. Not sure if they have moved on to Glocks yet, I don’t look at their kit that closely… :).

  11. One of Victoria’s problems in containing the spread of WuFlu was the comparatively high (compared to other States) presence of “multi-cultural” ethnic and religious groups who deemed adherence to their observances, events, customs, etc should continue as usual, unimpeded by social distancing recommendations and the like.

    There were also complaints about insufficient / inadequate official messages & explanations of containment measures in languages other than English.

    It seems that the Vic government’s slogan “We’re All In This Together” did not resonate with all constituencies.

    (As explained to Cool Hand Luke) –

  12. Thomas Jefferson wrote “Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem”, which, in English, means “I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery”. People once said “Give me liberty, or give me death!” Now, they say “Give me neither liberty or death”.

    Look at how many rights were taken away for a disease which the general population has greater than a 99.5% chance of making a full recovery. I have believed since April that the COVID-19 lockdowns are the future the UN wants for the world. You better believe that the accountable-to-nobody bureaucrats in the UN are taking notes during this overreaction.

  13. Oh, boy…. Mad Max, here we come….

    Okay, boys and girls, I just got through reading a transcript of a podcast by a markets analyst who emphasizes timing in financial markets in his posts. His message was that this “bug” is not going away without a fight. He’s suggesting – not emphatically stating – that it will have two more episodes, one in 2021 and another in 2022, but we also get that every year with the flu bug. So for Pete’s sake, get your flu shot as soon as it’s available because it might boost your immune system enough to NOT be susceptible to the CV19 bug.

    And if the fearful peeps-in-charge want you to wear a mask, wear one. Then they can’t scream bloody murder at you. It protects you from THEM; does NOT protect them from you. Their masks are supposed to do that job.

    So it’s gonna be no more ski trips to New Zealand’s South Island for a while? None to Chile or Argentina? Well, just as well I don’ t ski. I just like those mountainous landscapes.

    • Though like all things COVID, the answers are not clear, flu vaccinations have been associated with higher susceptibility to corona viruses.

    • It protects you from THEM; does NOT protect them from you.

      Masks only function in one direction, and in all-caps, who’d of thought!
      A mask might protect from flying spittle but the 60% reduction cited by Joel O’Bryan above is too minor to compensate for the false confidence generated by the wearing of the cloth mask. A local medical officer of health not in favour of mandatory mask wearing compares the mask prescription to a prescription for chicken soup.

    • “So for Pete’s sake, get your flu shot as soon as it’s available because it might boost your immune system enough to NOT be susceptible to the CV19 bug.”

      I’ve read, on an official site, and/or maybe Wikipedia, that flu shots are only 10% effective for persons over 70 (or maybe 60). So I’ll continue skipping them.

  14. The majority of covid deaths in Melbourne are elderly in aged care.
    It was obvious in February after the diamond princess and the aged care issues in Seattle the importance of keeping covid out of age care.
    In Australia and Victoria the key issue of staff working in multiple facilities was NOT addressed.
    This is the problem.
    1. Australia needs more nurses.
    2. Foreign nurses can migrate to Australia easier than other professionals
    3. To be a registered nurses in Australia, you must pass English ( actually get high score in IELTS).
    4. Foreign nurses come to Australia on student visa to study English or extra nursing courses.
    5. While on student visa the can work upto 20 hours a week
    6. The easiest job for unqualified nurses is as carers in aged care.
    7. But 20 hours is not enough, so they do a dodgy and work at multiple places THIS IS THE KEY ISSUE WHY COVID SPREADS IN AGED CARE.
    8. They then go home to their share accommodation, where their roommates are doing the same thing. Maybe the men are doing part time security at multiple locations.
    9. The “official “ correspondence to age care facilities to stop this practice only came in early July.
    10. Since the week starting July 13 the practice has been stopped. But it’s too late.

    Additional information
    11. In Victoria if you run an event, you can hire a policeman at about $150+ ph
    12. Or you can hire a security guard and pay $40-$80 ph.
    13. The company will uses foreign students and pay as low as $18 ph
    14. It is very clear above the Victoria government took the cheap option for guarding the quarantine hotels.

    • “The majority of covid deaths in Melbourne are elderly in aged care.”

      This seems to be the big difference between countries and regions. If you let the disease get into care homes where people are already almost dead… they die, and you get a high death rate.

      But then they’re dead, so there are few people left for the disease to kill, and the death rate drops off to near-zero.

    • It wasn’t just about the cheapest option for them it was also about giving minorities jobs – whether they were qualified for them or not. They were even quite proud of it.

  15. Under the leadership of Dangerous Dan Andrews. the State of Victoria has declared Martial Law in a misguided effort to contain a second wave Coronavirus outbreak, which was brought about by lax and ill-administered hotel confinement policies of Dangerous Dan. The Victorian Police have been transformed into a Gestapo lookalike. Australians support the Fascist government actions in the vain hope that they will prevent the spread of the virus, and acts of defiance increase.against the best efforts of Dangerous Dan, in the rrst of the Australian population and hope that Australia can cut itself off from the rest of the World for long enough to become a bubble economy, free of Crony-virus like New Zealand. The cost is enormous, the economy is compromised, deaths in aged care climb, the suicide toll grows and there are increasing acts of defiance and rebellion.

  16. This level of disobedience would be possible only if people were not afraid of infection. The reason people are not afraid is that COVID-19 has had no direct effect on their lives. You can tell people there is a deadly plague running rampant through their communities, only to have this not happen, and pretty soon they come to the conclusion that you’re lying.

    Right now there is a mass rally (250,000 people) of motorcyclists converging on a town in South Dakota. These people do not fear infection, which means that they think that the stories about the COVID-19 plague have been hyped. I agree with them.

    Notice that the media reports new case numbers. Those numbers are large and scary, but essentially meaningless, since it is never explained how the test populations are chosen. And of course there is no discussion allowed about how many of people classified as cases get seriously ill.

    Here in Canada, there are 55 people hospitalized with COVID-19 in the province of Ontario. Ontario has a population of 14.5 million. The median age of the dead from COVID-19 is 84, So what is happening is, the media is now pushing a story that even the stupidest people can see is false.

  17. Watch the legislation that is being passed in amongst the fake virus stuff it might interest you.

    • “Those who would exchange essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security”? 🙂

  18. Victorian police being a heavy handed, you don’t say? There isn’t a second outbreak, it just a result of dictatorial, state sanctioned, forced testing. Test more for something and you see more results. The tests themselves are suspect generating false positives. Andrews will pay for this next election.

    • That would be true if there weren’t accompanying deaths, but deaths are also rising.

      No, it seems that unlike New Zealand, containment failed and one should expect the outbreak to rage. Fortunately, only the elderly and those with underlying issues need to be isolated. Hopefully, this will be done to protect them and to minimize deaths.

      • NZ has just ONE international airport. But Ardern is on a power trip running up to an election, making sure people “feel safe”. Most of COVID-19 infection arrived by air.

        • Patrick MJD – Ardern is keeping her fingers crossed – and praying fervently at bedtime every night that the inevitable wave of community-spread of Covid 19 in New Zealand will not occur before the election.

    • ” Andrews will pay for this next election.”

      Only if there is a next election. My money is on elections being “postponed” out of “fear of community transmission”. Translation: cancelled out of fear of community backlash.

  19. “…Chief Health Officer guidelines…”

    Now, I am still to find out if these “guidelines” are set out in the Public Health Act and are thus enforceable by the police. I am pretty sure this sort of police acts are unconstitutional.

    • Patrick
      My observation is the police will bully who they can.
      My son works for a very large civil construction company that has issued all employees with a permitted worker permit letter. The company can not afford to shut down.
      Any police willing to issue a fine to this companies workers will have to be prepared for a long stint in court.

      • I worked for the NSW Police and my observations were they often got the sh!t end of the stick and little else support.

  20. What if the corona end goal was to justify exactly that?

    Make people afraid and end up with a police state, while criminal are freed from prison.

    In the US and in France (only two countries I think I understand), it seemed to have failed spectacularly, like pretty much anything they try. (In the US globally… in NY it’s “special”.)

  21. I live in Melbourne, Victoria, where Dan Andrews is Premier with a leftist party in government. Nearing 80 y o, with 33 days in hospital last year with pericardial effusion, pleural effusion, pneumonia and lung scarring leaving me now short of breath, I believe the popular classification that I am in the very high risk group for Covid-19, which is NOT the same as just another annual ‘flu. So I read a lot and reject a lot about Covid-19.
    My main fear is the ignorance and purposeful lawlessness of individuals and some community groups. These have repeatedly put me at greater risk by openly flaunting lock down measures, examples being the several thousand in early June who did a street protest for some vague thing named Black Lives Matter (but mine does not) and at a similar time, a couple of hundred unionists protesting on Toorak Road about a building industry dispute they concocted.
    Soon after, we gained a new Chief Commissioner of Police, Shane Patton, who early declared he would be heavy against lawless conduct. His job is to help citizens obey the laws created by politicians and I welcome his thrust.
    The Premier has form in giving favour to Unions, who help with votes and funding in ways that do not help me, more often dismay me. He has almost destroyed our honoured volunteer fire fighting service for no reason more obvious than favouring a union alternative. There are other examples of the Premier’s decisions being swayed like this. Favoured treatment of voting blocks is rumoured to have been behind concealment of early Covid-19 cases at Cedar Meats, which seems to be a religious Lebanese stronghold, in his poor effort to stop public demonstrations, in allowing other acts like withdrawing staff from a retirement home with no public disclosure of any plan to replace them. This required Federal intervention, a touchy act under our Constitution, which arose when the several States granted certain powers to the newly formed Commonwealth in 1901. The present Cwth government is nominally right leaning and so are political opposites. This has led the Victorian Premier to refuse or dilute Cwth offers of help, as with hotel hosted quarantine schemes for incoming international travellers. The failure of that quarantine was Central to the Covid-19 spread, if we can believe what we are told.
    In summary, the management of the Covid-19 threat has been political when practical was better. Political life is like that, but this time there are large numbers of deaths and threats of many more future deaths. So, mistakes matter. Another mistake seems to have been allowing and then not discussing, a Ramedan get-together of a hundred or more who flaunted social distancing because to them, religion dominated.
    I hope that I do not shortly join the growing list of mistakes.

    • Geoff , in your state of health, you should avoid attending public demonstrations, sports events and Ramadan celebrations.
      Also, don’t take a job in a meat packing plant. Just a bit of advice.

    • “These have repeatedly put me at greater risk by openly flaunting lock down measures”

      flouting

    • Geoff
      I hope you stay healthy.
      We also live in Melbourne.
      My 16 yo daughter has lost her part time job, can’t play sport, can’t meet her peers and can’t go to school.
      The lockdown is a benefit for you
      The lockdown is a cost for my daughter
      The lockdown which has been forced on my daughter has a very poor cost/ benefit ratio.
      Any non emotional assessment of the pros and cons of lockdown will show it is a waste.

  22. Greg,
    Possibly you are making the modern mistake of not wanting to do novel acts until government approves of them, with the far better alternative of doing acts that you like and objecting to efforts of governments and others to stop you.
    Freedom of speech, free enterprise, hallmarks of the libertarian approach, have long been shown as preferable to oppressive socialism. Geoff S

  23. Australia and its population are in an utter state of delusion!! Because it did so well initially (and as much by chance as anything – warm weather, spread out populations, huge drop in international tourists in Jan and Feb due to bushfires), politicians and the gullible and non-critical thinking public believe this still can be achieved. Not only by closing its international borders indefinitely and by creating a constant fear of panic, information control (no other data other than new cases is discussed at press conferences), but with outrageous knee-jerk State restrictions, like Queensland closing its borders to the ACT, despite the ACT not recording one single case for 25 days (and counting)!!! I used to love my free, liberal and friendly country – but we’ve become a bona fide autocratic police state.

      • Qld has closed its borders to all ACTers, just in case there are some bad ACTers among them. Although, I’m sure there are exemptions for politicians, some of the worst ACTers of all.

  24. I work with a friend whose family was coming back from a weekend trip. This is in the USA. They saw a sign for drive by Covid testing so decided to get tested. They filled out some forms and got their car in line. But line was moving to slow so they left. Then in few days they get letter in the mail stating they all Tested Positive for Covid ! They were never even tested.

  25. Just recently in some beaches in Texas they kept the beaches opened but banned cars parking on beach and golf carts on beach. This is ridiculous government regulation ! How exactly does banning golf carts on beach do anything to prevent Covid ?

  26. So, what is the long term plan for Australia and New Zealand with this isolation strategy?
    Will they keep their borders closed for a few years, decades? How long? They will never be safe.

    • I live near-ish to the Airport in Sydney and I hear and see planes taking off all the time. Not all of them are domestic flights either. Then there are the truckies who cross borders every day. It’s a sc@m.

    • I don’t think they thought that through. They are just doubling down on WRONG and listening to the same experts who’s past predictions have been utter failures.

      Quit flogging a dead horse and try riding one that is alive. There are lots of examples of countries that didn’t do lockdowns that are handling this fine. Learn from them.

      • That was also my question. How do Australians and New Zealanders feel about that? I mean, they got to realize that they can perhaps keep their islands clean, but would have to self-isolate for a very long time. It will be waiting for a vaccine, which may not arrive, may not work 100% and may not work indefinitely.

        Note I’m seriously not saying Australia and New Zealand is wrong, as every country should decide their path, but do the people realize what this means. I mean, Hawaii did not, as they were about to loosen restrictions as tourism was hurting (duh!). They postponed that hilariously as they got an internal spike before this went active, but Hawaii did not realize the consequences of self-isolating from the mainland. Australia and New Zealand may be more self-contained though.

  27. Whenever I see Dangerous Dan on the television for some reason I’m reminded of that old comment that “the lights are on but there’s no-one at home”.

  28. Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty, nor safety… Benjamin Franklin. As true today, as it ever was!

  29. Herd immunity is dependent on a lot of different factors. It looks like if your achieve in worse case condition a death rate comparable to New York you are at herd immunity. New York City had a death rate of about 2000 per million. But if you safeguard the old and sick you can achieve herd immunity at a much lower death rate. So how do you explain the higher the 3% death rate?

    It can be explained by:
    1) The number of people infected left out the majority of the infections. A lot of people get sick recover and never get tested.
    2) Even if people share the same bed it seems like you have only about a 25% chance of infecting your partner. This might mean that these people have a natural resistance to the virus. Instead of assuming the virus is not very transmittable it might be more logical to think that a sizeable percent of the population has a natural immunity.
    3) No effort made to safe guard the old.
    4) Death rate when people are vitamin D deficient such as during winter in the northern hemisphere causes the death rate to go up.

  30. If I can add some information to that of Geoff Sherrington and RickWill as Melbourne Victoria resident, Victoria was never a Police State – It did have an Attorney General of the same party as in political power and some years ago, he stacked the Judicial System with labor lawyers, they have been extremely liberal and progressive like American Democrats so our Judicial System became a revolving door every one gets bail and as Australia never had a Bill of rights it seemed like a good idea for the state to symbolically adopt the concept of the the UN Human rights and to those of progressive ilk, this has been fine window dressing, and politicians often use the Victorian Human Rights legislation as a reason NOT to do things i.e. an excuse. But there are those progressive citizens who see it as akin to your Constitutional Bill of basic rights.

    I wont go into the depth and breadth of the actual legislation you can find all that on line on the internet. So when this present pandemic fear was promoted in early 2020, we had the Labor Premier Dan Andrews covering some bad political blunders by strong talking the initial efforts to flatten the curve of infections, and using the fears to cover up scandals that were developing in his side of politics. He really ramped up the fears and our Prime Minister formed a Federal Cabinet under the Australian Chief Health Officer working with the State Chief Health Officers who were by agreement given full authority in their States to issue State Health Directives to control and contain the Spread of the Corona virus, including local quarantine arrangements State by State. We did not find out till later that there were serious issues in the oversight and security of the Hotel lockdown there are stories of guards that allowed people to leave quarantine and at least 30% refused to be tested and left quarantine without testing,
    Months later we had outbreaks Cedar meats and so forth. We went into Stage three state lockdowns and there were constant threats by the Premier Dan Andrews that people would be fined by Police, that went on for a long time and it was obvious Police were having problems in enforcement, and it wasn’t till it was revealed by the Victorian Chief Health Officer when he was queried as to why Covid positive tested people weren’t home where they should have been that he revealed. Under the Victoria Charter of Human Rights there was no power to compel infected people to remain in their homes, they must be allowed freedom to exercise and get fresh air and not be incarcerated, and this was after tacit allowance of Protest Marches and the draconian lockdown of some large public housing towers with a high migrant population.
    Naturally the rest of the locked down community “doing the right thing” were rightly incensed at this and we also found that the virus had got into our aged care homes by the most predictable line of infection the use of staff that did part time work all across the Aged Care network – Covid was loose and running through those homes and our Hospital systems. The only way to control this was to put aside those adopted UN human rights and that is declare a State of Disaster invoke Emergency powers, something that should have been done back in February March, Police now had clear and legal powers to enforce the Premiers threats, fines that could be legally imposed under those Emergency Powers. And that is where we are today.
    As to the fine points of responsibilities and errors, that may well be only established by an Overall Federal Royal Commission to ensure we never make those mistakes and put our most vulnerable Citizens in danger. Shades of Andrew Cuomo, maybe its the name Andrew that is the problem, but we too lost many lives by such mistakes.
    thanks for your patience.

      • Thanks Geoff

        While the main incompetence has been with the Victorian lack of attention to the security of the Hotel Quarantine – These sort of problems should have been addressed in the Federal Pandemic Plan and anticipated legal responses when you actually hand back to the State Premiers ultimate responsibility for the detail in their states, I would have liked to see contingency planning and planned use of Federally owned land in each state to establish quarantine arrangements- For instance in Victoria we have the Army Communications facility at Macleod and the Repatriation General Hospital at Heidelberg, Either could have been used in the quarantine process to either move people into quarantine in a locked patrolled perimeter covered by Federal Crimes Act There would be no questions who was legally in control and no release from Quarantine till cleared by a valid set of tests.

        When the Elderly care facilities came under strain the RGH could have been turned into a similar Medical isolation and treatment unit, with an assessment section for those in the community that tested positive to remain separate from the general community in Hospital rest accommodation till tested and cleared for return to the community.

        No mucking about and all Elderly Care facilities and staff tested (no floating casual staff, or Drs not tested frequently to control infection.

        Even then there would be small issues and minor contingencies without draconian destruction of the wider economy
        Ken

  31. That’s an interesting article, but even more interesting is the Aussie news video about collating elderly people in senior residences, whether they want it or not. Whose idea was that? Might make more sense to putt all politicians into a similar single housing unit but with no separation, just to see who survives the Plague.

    Oh, that was SO mean of me!

  32. From https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2020/07/31/swedens-covid-immune/

    The only downside to Sweden’s strategy was that there did have a higher death percentage than the other countries but Sweden was even able to take action to curb that and their strategy has now been labeled a success “to a great extent” according to Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden’s public health agency.

    We here in Sweden no longer have any noticeable amount of excess mortality! – period!

    I am getting a bit irritated over all these smart people, even some Swedes, saying that the strategy of Anders Tegnell was terrible. Dr. Tegnell used his knowledge objectively and his measures have been very successful in many ways:

    Limited strain on societies freedom, self worth and general health.
    Limited strain on business.
    Limited strain on education.
    Little chance of second wave.

    A few things went bad as usual.
    Nursing homes, in particular in the Stockholm area, were very poorly managed and protected. The same ignorance during every epidemic, dealing with elderly sick people.
    There were back and forth regarding HQC.

    I also feel it is wrong to condemn the Anders Tegnell strategy on ground that some have died or been badly ill due to COVID-19 and disregarding the death, hunger, suffering and unhappiness endured implementing CAGW style prolonged measures.

    Personally I am so happy to live in Sweden these days.

    • I’ve been following Sweden very closely because as early as March I was imploring friends and family that I wish Australia had taken a leaf out of Swedens book. People just abused me here, saying that Sweden were doing it wrong and how dare I say we should do the same. I’ve stuck to my guns and continue to do so.

      Australia had a lot going for it early (geographical isolation, summer, low pop density, recent bushfires causing drop in international tourists) and the ‘Swedish approach’ was ideal for Australia. An ideal opportunity to manage spread and gain some level of immunity in time for winter. But oh no, because unlike Sweden where your public health policy and strategy is detached from politics, our politicians have called the shots (and unions in Victoria) – and when our Prime Minister saw record approval ratings two weeks into the lockdown in early April, well the die was cast across the country. Australia (and NZ more so) is now slave to a vaccine that may never come.

      We also have a small clique of about 6 or 7 ‘experts’ here who are sycophants to the politics – still deluded that elimination is the strategy we need. These are the deniers who still think the HIT for covid is 65-70%, not 15-20% that is showing on several models and starting to show in real cases (Sweden, Italy, NY, Sth Korea etc.).

      • Bravo, Carl and Cam. And we can take comfort knowing that we will be vindicated within a couple of years when all this is over.

        The problem over these last 6 months has been that we have all (except Sweden) behaved like head-less chickens, making knee-jerk reactions to it all according to whatever advice we got from various “experts” – and according to how scared we were to catch a bit of a flu.

        One cannot know anything for sure about a pandemic until it is all over, usually after a couple of years.

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