Hold China accountable – or give it even more control?
Paul Driessen and Ned Mamula
China unleashed Covid-19 on an unsuspecting world. It knew by early January 2020 (if not by December 2019 or earlier) that it was dealing with a vicious, fast-spreading disease in Wuhan, a city with more people than Chicago and New York City combined. But first it said nothing. Then it lied repeatedly, expelled foreign journalists, and threatened, silenced or “disappeared” Wuhan doctors who tried to warn the world.
The Chinese Communist Party used its influence with the World Health Organization to advance its false claims about the origins of the Wuhan virus (likely a laboratory or wet market in the city) and absence of human-to-human transmission. The CCP even claimed the virus was brought to Wuhan by US soldiers during an October 2019 military sports tournament. It shut down domestic travel to and from Wuhan, while allowing millions to fly between Wuhan and Europe, the United States, Africa and Latin America.
By July 1, the Wuhan virus had sickened 11 million people worldwide and killed a half million – with 2.7 million ill and 130,000 dead in the USA alone. The virus caused trillions of dollars in economic damage, as the world issued stay-home orders, closed down global trade and made hundreds of millions jobless. Amid the pandemic, China shipped defective respirator masks, engaged in hoarding and price gouging on medical supplies, and expanded its campaign to blame other countries for the disaster.
A University of Southampton study concluded that, if China had been honest and transparent, and stopped foreign travel to and from Wuhan even three weeks before it actually did, global Covid-19 transmission could have been reduced by 95% and hundreds of thousands would not have died. Nor would the world economy have imploded. (The WHO refused to declare a global pandemic until March 11.)
China’s outrageous behavior is nothing new. Companies wanting to sell products in China have long been compelled to build factories in China and share their technological and manufacturing secrets – while Chinese students, agents and hackers have systematically stolen other intellectual property and trade and defense secrets. Its treatment of Hong Kong, Laos and Chinese Uighurs is duplicitous and immoral.
Many have said China must be held accountable, punished, and made to pay reparations and financial penalties. Justice certainly demands that. In a more perfect world, it might even happen. However, securing a verdict on reparations would be a tall order, enforcing any verdict highly doubtful.
China’s status as a global economic and military superpower is augmented by its positions on the United Nations Security Council, in the World Trade Organization, and on the UN Human Rights Council (along with Iran, North Korea and other moral exemplars). Its predatory lending practices make China an even more untrustworthy pariah, and conditions in its mines, processing plants and factories show that it has little regard for workers’ health or basic rights. Indeed, it demands that we ignore human rights issues.
These problems are compounded by China’s control of numerous vital supply chains. China dominates not just manufacturing of US drugs like heparin, vaccines and penicillin, but the active ingredients that allow US companies to make other essential medicines. Chinese companies thereby control 70% of acetaminophen, and up to 95% of antibiotics and hydrocortisone. In 2008, contaminated heparin from China caused 81 US deaths. Much of the USA’s basic and high-tech medical equipment (respirators, surgical masks, protective gowns, and MRI and CT scan equipment) is also imported from China.
The United States is also beholden to China for metals and minerals in energy, aerospace, defense, telecom and other industries. Joe Biden, AOC, Democrats and environmentalist groups would not just shut down fossil fuel production, pipelines and fuels for power generation and manufacturing. They would effectively turn our energy systems, manufacturing, defense, livelihoods and living standards over to China.
Chinese computer chips are in countless products – and Trojan horse viruses or backdoors for hackers could enable steady information theft, take over GPS systems or crash electrical grids. Minerals, metals and components essential for aircraft, night vision goggles, computers, wind turbines, solar panels, rechargeable batteries, electric vehicles and other technologies are sourced directly from China or through Chinese companies that conduct horrific mining operations in Africa, Asia and Latin America. Supplies of these materials or products could easily be restricted or cut off amid trade or other conflicts.
Incredibly, America has nearly all the metals and minerals needed to manufacture these products, and many more. However, because of unrelenting environmentalist and Democrat opposition to exploration and mining, the nation’s vast, mineral-rich federal lands (worth many trillions of dollars) remain off limits and undeveloped, forcing the United States to import the vast majority of its essential raw materials.
In fact, America is needlessly 100% dependent on imports for 35 “critical” minerals and metals that are needed for defense, aerospace, transportation, communication, “renewable” energy and healthcare technologies – including 15 different rare earth elements (REEs). At least 25 of them come from China. Another half dozen come from Russia. Not one is renewable, clean, green, cheap or sustainable.
That means America imports nearly two-thirds of its critical minerals and metals from adversaries and enemies! Amazingly, although the United States once led the world in producing REEs, China now makes 95% of all the world’s rare earth metals, using technologies that the U.S. gave them – for free.
Thin-film solar panels require indium and tellurium, to convert the sun’s rays to electricity. Making solar panels also requires lead, cadmium, copper, gallium, silver, polyvinyl fluoride, and other materials and chemicals. Just building the 500 square miles of solar panels that Dominion Energy Virginia is planning would involve some 5,000,000 pounds of cadmium and enormous amounts of these other materials.
A single 2-megawatt wind turbine requires some 3.5 tons of copper to generate and transmit electricity – plus 900 tons of steel, 2,500 tons of concrete, 45 tons of non-recyclable plastic composites, several tons of rare earth elements, and many tons of manganese, cobalt, aluminum and other metals and minerals.
Magnets in hybrid gas-electric vehicle motors require dysprosium and neodymium, while a single 100-kilowatt-hour Tesla rechargeable battery pack (for all-electric vehicles and backup power systems) requires 140 pounds of lithium, large amounts of cobalt, nickel, graphite, aluminum and copper, and smaller amounts of manganese and rare earth metals. The raw material demands go on and on.
Multiply these requirements by the tens of thousands of offshore wind turbines, millions of onshore turbines, billions of solar panels and billions of 1,200-pound battery packs that would be needed under the Green New Deal – and the demand for raw materials would translate into unimaginable increases in mining around the world. It would also bring unsustainable global ecological impacts, enormous increases in global fossil fuel use and emissions, indefensible reliance on Chinese (and Russian) raw material and finished product imports, and vastly more slave and child labor and human rights violations around the world.
Transformers, smart grid control systems, electric vehicles and thousands of miles of additional transmission lines under the GND would add even more to the increases in raw materials demand. Modern civilizations also need numerous other metals: arsenic for microwave communications, fluorspar for aluminum and steel production and uranium processing, gallium for LEDs and cell phones, graphite for rechargeable batteries, scandium for lightweight alloys and fuel cells, bismuth for pharmaceuticals and lead-free solders, antimony for lead-acid batteries and flame retardants, and countless others.
It bears repeating: Almost every one of these essential materials could be mined and processed domestically. But instead many are 100% imported, mostly from China. Many Americans’ disdain for mining and manufacturing means US energy, jobs, living standards, health and national security will be almost entirely dependent on China, Russia and other countries that are not exactly friendly or reliable.
One thing is certain. Unlike US technologies and intellectual property that are constantly at risk of theft by China – there is absolutely nothing about US mineral resource policies that the CCP would ever want to copy, much less steal! And the Chinese certainly have no interest in copying our pollution control, mined land reclamation, wildlife protection, workplace safety, fair wage, child labor or human rights laws.
Sadly, not one of these realities seems to merit even a moment’s consideration by GND proponents.
Paul Driessen is senior policy analyst for the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow (www.CFACT.org) and author of books and articles on energy, environment, climate and human rights issues. Dr. Ned Mamula is geologist and former mineral resource specialist with the U.S. Geological Survey. He is author of the book Groundbreaking! America’s New Quest for Mineral Independence.
Maybe reliance on the most honorable ‘Peoples Republic’ is the point.
Democrats have a long history of favoring foreign communists over Americans.
Remember Ted Kennedy and the Dear Comendante letter?
Clinton allowed China into the WTO as a DEVELOPING COUNTRY, which provides all sorts of trade advantages, which eventually led to the US having $350 BILLION trade deficits with China.
US companies were totally screwed by Clinton. He should have insisted on balanced trade; you buy from us a dollar value of goods and services and we buy from you an EQUAL dollar value of goods and services.
Clinton also signed the original NAFTA, which Perot called a giant sucking sound of US jobs going up in smoke.
As part of the Kennedy Round, the US lowered its import duties, but Europe did not.
US companies were totally screwed, which ultimately led to the RUST BELT, and 50% of the US vehicle market owned by foreigners.
Bill Clinton also modernized China’s space program by encouraging American companies to help the Chinese fix their rockets, which kept blowing up all the time.
I wonder how much Clinton made off that deal. I bet the Chinese have that figure written down somewhere.
I see where the Chinese are launching a Mars orbiter and lander now. They ought to name the orbiter or the lander “Thanks, Bill”, in Bill’s honor.
Do not forget Biden cozying up to China (with Obama’s approval) paving the way for his well-connected son to make millions in China and in Ukraine.
Earlier, the son was dishonorably discharged from the Navy for drinking and taking drugs.
Regarding the Kennedy Round, it laid the foundation for Europe to totally dominate various manufacturing technologies. TESLA buys its robots from Germany!!
The Europeans and Japanese/Koreans rate the technical level of US manufacturing as “second world”, on par with most of East Europe and Russia.
Regarding NAFTA, foreign companies ship their own parts to Mexico, make their own parts in Mexico, and assemble it all in plants in Mexico, and ship totally assembled cars to the US DUTY FREE, BECAUSE OF NAFTA, as approved by Clinton.
Mexico used to have trade deficits with the US, but now its trade surplus with the US is greater than Germany’s, which has a ten times greater economy!!!!
Starting with Kennedy, it was Democrat Presidents who gave away the store.
Trump looked at these trade agreements, and, as a businessman (not a politician) started vomiting.
His thinking was: How could the US negotiators have dropped the ball that often.
The rest is history.
It is imperative that China be recognized as a self-interested antagonistic opponent of everything for which the U. S. stands and that we strive for maximum independence from China and her allies.
As bad of an actor that China is, our increased dependence on them for things like steel, aluminum and solar panels manufactured with coal powered electricity will be the least of our problems if this New Green Disaster ever becomes the law of the land.
America cannot currently under uneducated Democratic stupidity help themselves.
Ignorance is bliss for the Democrat mind set God help us if the present trend continues ( But God has gone on holiday )
Yes, if the people of the U.S. elect the Democrats to the presidency, then they might as well have voted to put the Chinese Communist Party in charge of the U.S. There won’t be much difference, except the American communists will speak English while the Chinese communists will speak Chinese. The policies of suppression will be the same for both countries.
The Democrats tried to steal the 2016 presidential election. If those same people are put back in the Oval Office, they will correct their mistakes and will accomplish the theft of the American Republc in perpetuity.
If you vote for Joe “China” Biden, you might as well be voting for China’s Xi. Both seek to control every aspect of your lives, whether you like it or not. And will control every aspect of your life if they are given the power. Don’t vote the slave masters into Office.
We can only hope that the American left wakes up from its woken slumber and gets over their systemic racist hate against a white male president and those who voted against a corrupt woman so they can see for themselves that Biden is so far into dementia, he’s oblivious to the fact that he has surrounded himself with radical Marxists hell bent on destroying the freedom that enables people to think for themselves and which became the foundation of American exceptionalism.
It is imperative that the U.S. be recognized as a self-interested antagonistic opponent of everything for which China stands and that we strive for maximum independence from the U.S. and her allies.
ahhh a moral equivalence troll … how cute …
Ha – a cute, moral equivalence troll – I suppose you are right. But I would rather have you properly fault my logic.
I do resent the present whipping up nationalistic hatred against capitalist competitors. Haven’t we had enough of that in the past?
When moral equivalence trolls have to invent nasty motivations on the part of the US, you know that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of trying to justify their positions.
It makes as much sense to call the US communist, as it does to call China capitalist.
It is imperative that China be recognized as a self-interested antagonistic opponent of everything for which the U.S. and her allies stand for vis a-vis that we strive for maximum independence from the Tyranny of Communism.
“But first it said nothing. Then it lied repeatedly, expelled foreign journalists, and threatened, silenced or “disappeared” Wuhan doctors who tried to warn the world”
These are terrible things but it does not necessarily imply evil intent because chinese speech and behavior must be understood in the context of Confucianism where image and appearances are more important than truth. China cannot be understood and their actions and language cannot be interpreted in terms of western values such as the primacy of truth. China must be understood in terms of chinese values and in the context of Confucianism.
” …. image and appearances are more important than truth.”
You are so right, and until “the West” understands fully the context of “face” “the West” will be at a disadvantage.
And until you have had to contend with a “loss of face” situation it will be difficult for you to understand what the whole thing is about.
Imagine being moored for three days working cargo in a Chinese port and then being charged with causing your vessel to collide with a Chinese one which was passing.
This happened to a friend of mine. After three days of “interviews” he gave in and signed the document they put in front of him. He still doesn’t know what it said but assumes that it said he was guilty so the locals did not lose face.
He had stopped smoking ten yeras before but started again during that ordeal.
In The Art of War, Sun Tsu said that the essence of war is deception. Westerners can hope that their friends are truthful, but it is parochial to expect those who are engaged with us in an economic war will be truthful. We should always be on the alert for deception, i.e. lies.
so the WHO lying and saying China reported it…..when China never reported it at all
…was just diplomacy
a paranoid person might think it was all a contrived conspiracy
“paranoia” is when a person thinks everything is about them.
“China cannot be understood and their actions and language cannot be interpreted in terms of western values such as the primacy of truth. China must be understood in terms of chinese values and in the context of Confucianism.”
Maybe one cannot understand China without understanding Confucianism, but it doesn’t follow that China “must be understood in terms of Chinese values”. Are we obliged to understand domestic abusers in terms of domestic abusers’ values? Thieves? Burglars?
Much of Driessen’s piece is overwrought and I’m afraid no American is in a position to tout US moral superiority. The US Federal government is an aggressive, lawless institution that violently crushes human rights and resistance to its hegemony all over the planet. (and no, saying this doesn’t make me “anti-American” – just anti- US Federal government foreign policy.)
Having said that… the Chinese government are even worse (at least domestically) and Driessen is right in this respect: it was a vast geostrategic mistake to become so dependent upon them, and economically ruinous to the US’ own blue-collar workers to impose regulations that made it impossible to compete with them.
But the only way the US can detach itself from China is to become more like them, at least in terms of environmental and worker protection regulations, and I’m seeing little appetite for this amongst the US public. Just the opposite, in fact.
Claiming that the US has hegemony all over the planet, doesn’t make you anti-US, it just makes you an idiot.
I’m sorry, that’s just nonsense. To detach oneself from murderers means that one has to become more of a murderer? That’s not logical. That’s like saying that, in order to detach itself from Hitler, GB had to start building concentration camps.
I guess my reply to you was dumped – having appeared for a few seconds – because I mentioned the name of the guy with the toothbrush moustache. Maybe, in review, the modes might restore the comment… After all these years of commenting here I still live in hope. After all, comments like yours are allowed…
“Having said that… the Chinese government are even worse (at least domestically) and”
What nonsense the “domestically” is. China us the “Robber Barons” on steroids on a global scale.
Yes, the US has taken advantage at times, and yet the US has a history of
protection of other nations right to prosper from their own resources.
And no, I won’t take the time to debate 100 years of US and world history with you, but your moral equivalence argument is simply nonsense.
I will give you this, US foreign policy under Obama was incredibly destructive to the world. ( And sadly quite in Sync with Neocons in a few areas)
Even the Robber Barons were never robber barons.
“I will give you this, US foreign policy under Obama was incredibly destructive to the world. ( And sadly quite in Sync with Neocons in a few areas)”
Yes, Obama screwed up everything he touched, although I don’t know where you think the Neocons have common ground with him, other than both of them hating Trump..
Btw, the Neocons are a very small clique of people who don’t really have any influence anymore, especially with Trump in Office. That’s why the Neocons have turned into Never-Trumpers.
Imo, Obama was the worst president in the history of the United States. He did more harm to our basic Constitutional Republic than any previous president, which culminated in his treasonous acts to undermine the U.S. Constitution, the American electoral process, and the undermining of the political opposition’s presidential campaign and then sought to paralyze and undermine the government of Donald Trump.
Obama is a traitor to the United States, as are Joe Biden and all those who participated in trying to rig the 2016 and 2020 elections.
I think it was easy for Obama to become a traitor. All his life he was taught how the British and the U.S. governments were evil and illegetimate, and so when Obama gets in a position to affect these issues, he sees no problem with trying to rig the system in his and his party’s favor, afterall, the system is corrupt, isn’t it? Or so he thinks. So it’s not a big leap for Obama to try to “fix” the situation.
The bottom line is Obama is a traitor and a criminal. Let’s hope this all comes out before the November elections. The evidence already made public is enough to start prosecutions of the Obama administration.
We cannot afford to put these same traitors back in the White House where they will rig coming elections to favor themselves and there won’t be a thing the rest of us can do about it other than complain.
Don’t reelect these traitors. Put them in jail, where they belong. Take that arrogant smirk off Obama’s face.
“Much of Driessen’s piece is overwrought and I’m afraid no American is in a position to tout US moral superiority. The US Federal government is an aggressive, lawless institution that violently crushes human rights and resistance to its hegemony all over the planet. (and no, saying this doesn’t make me “anti-American” – just anti- US Federal government foreign policy.)”
Saying it makes you wrong, whatever else it makes you.
“Having said that… the Chinese government are even worse (at least domestically) and Driessen is right in this respect: it was a vast geostrategic mistake to become so dependent upon them, and economically ruinous to the US’ own blue-collar workers to impose regulations that made it impossible to compete with them.”
Trump has been saying that for decades. Now, as president, he’s doing something about it. He’s waving his Magic Wand and bringing manufacturers back into the USA.
Let’s see what the supply chain looks like after Trump’s next term is over.
I’m sure that a lot of people, myself included, have been pretty naive as to what sort of philosophy might be driving the current Chinese system of things. What you appear to be saying is that it’s just a matter of showing who is boss, same as any warlord or organized crime leadership?
“These are terrible things but it does not necessarily imply evil intent”
Yes it does. Everyone desires power. Evil intent is best defined as power over others, specifically group or government power in this case. Almost all crimes are a form of power over others; murder, theft, rape, blackmail, fraud, etc… are universally recognized crimes if power. “Government is a necessary evil”
The ” intent” of China is evil.
Oppressing others because you want to “save face” is evil.
Hiding the truth about COVID19 because you want to “save face” is evil.
Understanding about “face” may help us predict what the Chinese leaders are going to do, but that still doesn’t excuse them.
Hitler felt that his actions were justified in order to “save” the Aryan race.
“Sadly, not one of these [China-related] realities seems to merit even a moment’s consideration by GND proponents.”
Of course they don’t merit a moment’s consideration by GND proponents. Here is a remarkably unguarded comment by Saikat Chakrabarti, then-chief of staff to GND proponent Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. It was published in the Washington Post Magazine, July 10, 2019. Chakrabarti dropped off the radar very shortly afterward:
“Chakrabarti had an unexpected disclosure. ‘The interesting thing about the Green New Deal,’ he said, ‘is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.’ Ricketts greeted this startling notion with an attentive poker face. ‘Do you guys think of it as a climate thing?’ Chakrabarti continued. ‘Because we really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.'”
These people don’t give a rat’s rump about the climate, whether they believe it’s controllable by government action or not. What they’re interested in is establishing an authoritarian (at best) socialist dictatorship. That is the beginning, middle, and end of what they’re about.
Most of these people are the kind of people who in high school, weren’t athletic enough to make any of the teams, and were second tier at best academically.
They spent all their time in school in tight little klicks, telling each other how they were the special ones and it was societies fault for not recognizing how special they were.
They are now set to tear down the society that failed to recognize them and replace it with one where they get to tell everyone else what to do.
Indeed – do an internet search on Figueres Capitalism
You will find that she says just the same thing. The use of the Climate Change and the Paris Accord was to crash capitalism.
The UN are less interested in climate change now as the COVID-19 shut downs have managed far more far quicker. Expect grit to be thrown into the gears of recovery by the same actors that support(ed) the Paris Accord.
Our real problem is not China. It is our political system at present. Weak Republicans trying to counter Democrats who are actually a new religion constantly pandering to one or another of their fanatical splinter groups.
It’s not so much weak Republicans, the problem is that most of the Republican leadership also wants to grow government. The only difference is that they want to be the ones running the dictatorship, not the Democrats.
A small correction. The Horseshoe bat that carries Covid is far to small to use as a food source. In addition it lives a thousand miles away from the food market so the original source had to be one of the the labs working with the virus. China had an active research program working with the virus in 2017 and the program may have gone back as far as 2014. One of the things they were working on was helping the virus jump from one species to another. This process is common knowledge in research so it’s nothing special. That type of research is done to understand how dangerous the virus would be to humans. If the outbreak started in the wet market, it was probably due to a researcher from one of the two labs in the area infecting somebody in the wet market and not because of something sold in the market.
China knew all this and it would have been sufficient reason to destroy all cultures other than the ones they had under lock and key. Even the bat lady was disappeared for a while, probably until they could be sure that she would tell the story they wanted told. There is a story of a couple wanting to visit Wuhan about November 1 and their tour guide wouldn’t allow them in the city. Their activity was restricted to closed places where they were the only ones in a museum. The excuse they were give was that there were bad things happening in the city. It may have been the tour guide doing his best to protect his customers from what the government wouldn’t admit.
Clearly China can’t be trusted as they will not fill out important details even when enough is known to put the blame in the proper place. Depending on them is extremely risky and could leave us dependent on the limited supplies we have in this country.
Personally, I will try to avoid made in China as much as possible but it’s difficult. I have seen just how much of what I have purchased was made there and it’s scary how dependent we have become on a country that would gladly cause harm to us just to make a few extra dollars.
It’s not a “few extra dollars”. Most people in the US would be materially much worse off if they couldn’t buy Chinese goods. US society might experience nett gain, in that there’d be more demand for lower-skilled workers and consequently less unemployment, but unless worker legislation is liberalised that’s by o means a given.
China is also a major recycler of the US dollar, and if US citizens were to spend more of their money domestically, this would increase the risk of the USD losing its world reserve currency status.
It almost certainly will eventually anyway, but it’s not something you want to hurry up.
Then again, they would be morally better off, knowing they (US buyers) are not feeding the dragon that will eat them one day.
Liberalized, as in divergent? How is that relevant? The problems are progressive prices, immigration reform, affirmative discrimination, and economies without borders. Our selective-child policy (e.g. reproductive rites) only serves to exacerbate the problem.
“Most people in the US would be materially much worse off if they couldn’t buy Chinese goods. ”
Nonsense. Human labor is an ever smaller percentage of the cost of production, which makes a relative increase in the cost of transportation.
Also there are far better behaved nations then China to deal with. India for instance has an inherently non aggressive culture.
President Trump was wining the trade war easily and setting up bilateral trade deals with India, Mexico, South Korea, Japan etc… Then came the China virus, and the globalist response to it of never letting a crisis go to waste.
Paul, this is an outstanding summation of the production and installation of the NOT Green New Deal products. I think an analysis of what happens as these products reach end of life is needed. Graveyards for turbine blades, highly toxic battery disposal, etc. appear to be a bigger environmental disaster than the earlier production and installation.
The First Undeniable Climate Change Deaths
In 2018 in Japan, more than 1,000 people died during an unprecedented heat wave. In 2019, scientists proved it would have been impossible without global warming.
Yeah, sure, ok….
“In 2018 in Japan, more than 1,000 people died during an unprecedented heat wave. In 2019, scientists proved it would have been impossible without global warming”
And in 2020 the climate science obsession with the attribution of extreme weather events to fossil fuel emissions ran into a wall.
As every good climate scientist knows, if not for CO2, the Little Ice Age never would have ended.
Well of course….that has always been the plan. There is a reason why Maurice Strong hid out in China after the Iraq oil for food scam. The whole “climate change” gong show is for the benefit of China….pure and simple. By the way, any more word on the “deformed” Three Gorges dam?
weird but that pic looks a LOT like an outline/diagram of a turbine engine.
messed with my eyes LOL
I loved the tweet that Secretary Of State Mike Pompeo sent out, showing his pet dog about to have a little play time with the Winnie the Pooh stuffed animal. Remember, Chairman Pooh (Xi) had banned all talk and photos’s of Winnie the Pooh, after he was mocked for walking like Winnie the Pooh when with Obummer. Too funny! Should have been a Pit Bull instead of a Golden Retriever.
Winnie The Pooh Gate: Does Mike Pompeo’s Dog Photo Have a Hidden Message for China?
This import-dependence situation is a direct consequence of the perpetual and covert class war in the US and western Europe, through financialization and globalization by the elites. Soon it will be pitchfork-time in the US, and then time to eat the rich in a world increasingly made by hand. When everyone is armed, and theven the police are starving, who wins?
Nobody, basically, but there will be plenty of battles to win even if everyone loses the war.
Keeping Chinese military malware/virus loaded 5G equipment from Huawei Technologies Co out Western cellphone grids will be essential to securing our future from a CCP intent on holding the West’s communications hostage and extracting intelligence from keuy individuals who connect to their equipment in the cell towers/poles. Huawei Technologies Co 5G electronics boards are loaded with carefully hidden chips and bearing microcode waiting to be activated for every nefarious purpose one can imagine, and probably some that most folks haven’t thought of. The CCP is doing this in order to have a decisive card to play as it plans to exert military dominance in the South China Sea and beyond in a future “hot war” confrontation with the US and its regional allies.
With Hong Kong now secured, China will now set its sights on Taiwan. A military operation with large scale amphibious landings proceeded by dozens of missile strikes on key Taiwanese installations will be
Taiwan will be a much tougher nut for the Chinese Communists to crack.
Taiwan may be uncrackable if the U.S. decides to get involved.
The U.S. might decide to get involved.
The Chinese communists should think about that.
The Chinese communists are scaring a lot of people with their reckless actions, and are driving them closer to the United States.
The problem with bullies is they won’t stop until someone pushes back. The mistake bullies always make is they push things too far. It’s in their nature. And it’s in our nature to slap bullies down to the ground when they go too far.
Funny, the code and hardware designs for Huawei 4G and 5G products have been made available for scrutiny by their customers and concerned governments for many years now with no such findings. These days proof is not required I suppose but I expected better from this website.
The real danger to the US is the incredible STEM focus in education in Asia. Yes their politics are nasty but the kids building tech their are like kids everywhere.
The elites in America and Europe don’t care about the economic demise of their economies. So long as they have their high government positions that are immune from layoffs the economy does not affect them. There will be massive problems for them eventually, when the government debt becomes too high and lenders will no longer lend until government size is cut dramatically.
That’s right. It’s all about “relative status.” But the elites you identify as being in the government are not the ones ultimately in charge; they are minions of the true neo-feudal owners, who have been very successful at keeping their personal identities obscure. Anybody WE know about has only the rank of captain in the world oligarchic hierarchy. The persons we are most familiar with are puppets set to dance and wiggle to distract us.
The question is, why do the DemocRats hate the US so much? Don’t they live here too?
Why the hate???
This lady from Yukoslivia explains it well…
The Democrats have been taught to hate the United States. It’s part of the program.
The U.S. education system has been brainwashing students for decades into hating the U.S. It’s part of the effort to eventually overthrow the United States government and turn the nation into an authoritarian-governed nation.
The first thing the Marxists and Communists try to do is destroy the old society so they can create a new one more to their liking. That is what is happening in the U.S. today, although it appears there are not enough violent leftists out in the streets to do the job. One good crackdown, and all these tough guys would go home to mama. The Feds ought to position some snipers around the area of interest and those snipers should shoot every person who uses a laser and/or throws an object at the police, with rubber bullets. That would quell the violence.
Trump is in the process of arresting the ring leaders.
I see where the NAACP of Oregon is complaining about the riots in Portland, saying the radical Antifa is hijacking the protests over George Floyd’s death.
Even at the height of the protests over George Floyd’s death only about one in six people were black, most of the rest are white. And most of the rioters in Portland are white. It’s no longer about George Floyd, it’s about anarchy and tearing our country down, although they are only managing to tear Portland down.
And the news media continues to distort the situation claiming this violence is going on “across the nation” implying that it is happening everywhere when in fact, it is happenining in only a few places, and Washington State and Oregon State are notorious for the number of violent radicals living there, so they are not representative of the rest of the nation. The Leftwing News Media and Fox News should stop distorting the situation and adding fuel to the fire. Take a deep breath!
I’ll post this time line again but I do not suppose it will make much difference.
You do not cry pandemic at the first case of pneumonia. You would be ridiculed if there was really no spread. The WHO declared Public Health Emergency of International Concern on 21st January. The Chinese provided genetic sequence by 12 January Most countries took severe action until mid March. …
December 21st 2019 Chinese epidemiologists with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention published an article on 20th January 2020 stating that the first cluster of patients with ‘pneumonia of an unknown cause’ had been identified on 21st December 2019
You cannot act on this – it is a sort of pneumonia with unknown transmission. It was published therefore no secret
December 31st 2019 Chinese authorities confirmed they were treating dozens of cases of pneumonia of an unknown cause. Days laters researchers in China identified a new virus that had infected dozens of people. There was no evidence that the virus was spread by humans.
China contacts the WHO and informs them of ‘cases of pneumonia of unknown etiology’ detected in Wuhan
no evidence for human to human spread and who informed
1 January 2020 WHO had set up the IMST (Incident Management Support Team) across the three levels of the organization: headquarters, regional headquarters and country level, putting the organization on an emergency footing for dealing with the outbreak.
January 2nd 2020 Central Hospital of Wuhan banned its staff from discussing the disease publicly or recording them using text or image that can be used as evidence
Chinese damage limitation – not called for
4 January 2020 WHO reported on social media that there was a cluster of pneumonia cases – with no deaths – in Wuhan, Hubei province.
5 January 2020 WHO published their first Disease Outbreak News on the new virus. This is a flagship technical publication to the scientific and public health community as well as global media. It contained a risk assessment and advice, and reported on what China had told the organization about the status of patients and the public health response on the cluster of pneumonia cases in Wuhan.
January 8th 2020 The Chinese government agrees to accept a WHO scientific team to assist their own researchers
WHO goes to China now they cannot hide problems
10 January 2020 Developed with reference to other coronaviruses, such as SARS and MERS, WHO issued a tool for countries to check their ability to detect and respond to a novel coronavirus. This information is to help with identifying main gaps, assessing risks and planning for additional investigations, response and control actions.
January 11th 2020 Chinese state media reported the first known death from an illness caused by the virus. It was a 61-year old man who was a regular customer of the market in Wuhan where the virus is believed to have originated, and had previously been found to have abdominal tumors and chronic liver disease.
first death many co-morbidities – so was this the virus?
12 January 2020 China shares the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus, which will be very important for other countries as they develop specific diagnostic kits. First case of novel coronavirus outside of China confirmed
13 January 2020 Officials confirmed a case of the novel coronavirus in Thailand. It was not unexpected that cases of the novel coronavirus would emerge outside of China and reinforces why WHO calls for active monitoring and preparedness in other countries. WHO makes field visit to Wuhan, China
January 14th 2020 Reporters from Hong Kong taken to police station after trying to film the situation within Wuhan hospital
Chinese damage limitation?
14 January 2020 WHO’s technical lead for the response noted in a press briefing there may have been limited human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus (in the 41 confirmed cases), mainly through family members, and that there was a risk of a possible wider outbreak. The lead also said that human-to-human transmission would not be surprising given our experience with SARS, MERS and other respiratory pathogens.
January 20th 2020 The first confirmed cases outside mainland China occurred in Japan, South Korea and Thailand, according to the WHO.
January 21st 2020 The first confirmed case of the virus in the US in Washington State, where a man in his 30s developed symptoms after returning from a trip to Wuhan.
USA now knows
21 January 2020 The WHO delegation observed and discussed active surveillance processes, temperature screening at Wuhan Tianhe airport, laboratory facilities, infection prevention and control measures at Zhongnan hospital and its associated fever clinics, and the deployment of a test kit to detect the virus. The delegation also discussed public communication efforts and China’s plan to expand the case definition for the novel coronavirus, which will build a clearer picture of the spectrum of severity of the virus. At the end of the visit, the Chinese Government released the primers and probes used in the test kit for the novel coronavirus to help other countries detect it. Chinese experts also shared a range of protocols that will be used in developing international guidelines, including case definitions, clinical management protocols and infection control. Public Health Emergency of International Concern declared
January 22nd 2020 Public Health England announces it is moving the risk level to the British public from ‘very low’ to ‘low’.
UK knows – us and UK not taking action – why?
22 January 2020 WHO mission to China issued a statement saying that there was evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan but more investigation was needed to understand the full extent of transmission.
22- 23 January 2020 The WHO Director-General convened an Emergency Committee (EC) under the International Health Regulations (IHR 2005) to assess whether the outbreak constituted a public health emergency of international concern. The independent members from around the world could not reach a consensus based on the evidence available at the time. They asked to be reconvened within 10 days after receiving more information.
January 23rd 2020 Wuhan (population over 11 million) is cut off by the Chinese authorities. Planes and trains leaving the city are cancelled, and buses, subways and ferries within the city are suspended. 17 people had died at this point and 570 infected in Taiwan, Japan, Thailand, South Korea and the US.
Figures compiled by the Chinese Railway Administration showed that approximately 100,000 people had already departed from Wuhan Train Station by the deadline.
Construction begins in Wuhan for a specialist emergency hospital which opened on 3rd February
lock down – us uk no action why?
Trump::Jan 24 China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!
January 26th 2020 China extends the ‘Spring Festival’ holiday in order to contain the coronavirus outbreak.
Schools in Beijing to stay closed until further notice
Trump:: Jan 27 We are in very close communication with China concerning the virus. Very few cases reported in USA, but strongly on watch. We have offered China and President Xi any help that is necessary. Our experts are extraordinary!
28 January 2020 A senior WHO delegation led by the Director-General travelled to Beijing to meet China’s leadership, learn more about China’s response, and to offer any technical assistance. While in Beijing, Dr. Tedros agreed with Chinese government leaders that an international team of leading scientists would travel to China on a mission to better understand the context, the overall response, and exchange information and experience.
29th January 2020 The UK’s first two patients test positive for Coronavirus after two Chinese nationals from the same family staying at a hotel in York fall ill.
A plane evacuating Britons from Wuhan arrives at RAF Brize Norton. Passengers go into a 14 day quarantine at a specialist hospital on Merseyside.
still no US/UK action
January 30th 2020 WHO declares a global health emergency amid thousands of new cases in China.
who declares emergency – there is a definite problem – US/UK no action
30 January 2020 WHO Director-General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus declared the 2019-nCoV outbreak a Public Health Emergency of International Concern, following a second meeting of the Emergency Committee convened under the International Health Regulations. Acknowledging that cases have been reported in five WHO regions in one month, the Committee noted that early detection, isolating and treating cases, contact tracing and social distancing measures – in line with the level of risk – can all work to interrupt virus spread.
Trump::jan 30 Working closely with China and others on Coronavirus outbreak. Only 5 people in U.S., all in good recovery.
Trump::Jan 30 Just received a briefing on the Coronavirus in China from all of our GREAT agencies, who are also working closely with China. We will continue to monitor the ongoing developments. We have the best experts anywhere in the world, and they are on top of it 24/7!
January 31st 2020 The US suspends entry into the country by any foreign nationals who had travelled to China in the past 14 days, excluding the immediate family members of US citizens or permanent residents.
213 people had died and 9,800 infected worldwide.
us action on flights (should have happened earlier to be effective virus is already loose in US) US/UK no lock down why?
February 1st 2020 Spain confirms its first case of the coronavirus on La Gomera in the Canary Islands
February 2nd 2020 The first death of coronavirus is reported outside China, as a 44-year-old man in the Philippines dies after being infected.
3 February 2020 WHO releases the international community’s Strategic Preparedness and Response Plan to help protect states with weaker health systems
February 4th 2020 The UK directs its citizens to leave China if possible
spread it further???
February 5th 2020 A cruise ship in Japan quarantines 3600 people after a two-week trip to Southeast Asia. 218 people onboard the ship tested positive for the virus.
February 7th 2020 The Chinese doctor Dr. Li Wenliang, who tried to ring early alarms that a cluster of infections could spin out of control, dies after contracting the virus. He was reprimanded by authorities in early January and he was forced to sign a statement denouncing his warning as an unfounded and illegal rumor.
Trump:: 7th Feb 2020 Just had a long and very good conversation by phone with President Xi of China. He is strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus. He feels they are doing very well, even building hospitals in a matter of only days. Nothing is easy, but he will be successful, especially as the weather starts to warm & the virus hopefully becomes weaker, and then gone. Great discipline is taking place in China, as President Xi strongly leads what will be a very successful operation. We are working closely with China to help!
Trump::Feb. 10: “I think the virus is going to be — it’s going to be fine.”
February 11th 2020 The disease is named ‘Covid-19’, an acronym that stands for coronavirus disease 2019. 1113 people in China have died with 44,653 cases, and 393 cases outside of China.
11-12 February 2020 WHO convened a Research and Innovation Forum on COVID-19, attended by more than 400 experts and funders from around the world, which included presentations by George Gao, Director General of China CDC, and Zunyou Wu, China CDC’s chief epidemiologist.
February 14th 2020 France announces the first coronavirus death in Europe – an 80-year-old Chinese tourist. The fourth death from the virus outside mainland China.
Egypt confirms its first case, the first on the African continent.
Trump::Feb. 14: “We have a very small number of people in the country, right now, with it. It’s like around 12. Many of them are getting better. Some are fully recovered already. So we’re in very good shape.”
February 17th 2020 China said it was reviewing its trade and consumption of wildlife, which has been identified as a probable source of the outbreak
February 19th 2020
443 passengers leave the Diamond Princess cruises ship. A total of 621 people aboard the ship were infected.
Trump::Feb. 19: “I think it’s going to work out fine. I think when we get into April, in the warmer weather, that has a very negative effect on that and that type of a virus. So let’s see what happens, but I think it’s going to work out fine.”
February 21st 2020 The virus appears in Iran from an unknown source. Iran announced the two cases then hours later said that both patients had died. Two days later, Iran announced two additional deaths.
The South Korean government shuts down thousands of kindergartens, nursing homes and community centres, following a surge in infections linked to the secretive church the Shincheonji Church of Jesus.
south korean lock down bypassed by religious sect worship
February 23rd 2020 Italy sees a major surge in coronavirus cases – up to 150. Officials locked down 10 towns in Lombardy after a cluster of cases suddenly emerged in Codogno, southeast of Milan. Schools closed and sporting and cultural events were canceled.
Italy introduces strict measures which place almost 50,000 people in lockdown in an attempt to control the virus
italy lock down too late
February 24th 2020 The Trump administration asks Congress for $1.25 billion for coronavirus response – the US had 35 confirmed cases and no deaths.
Iran emerges as a second focus point of the virus, with 61 cases and 12 deaths. It is a cause for worry as a place of pilgrimage.
Iran problems made worse by sanctions
Trump::Feb. 24 (tweet): “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. … Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
Trump::Feb. 25: “You may ask about the coronavirus, which is very well under control in our country. We have very few people with it, and the people that have it are … getting better. They’re all getting better. … As far as what we’re doing with the new virus, I think that we’re doing a great job.”
Trump:: Feb. 25: “Now they have it, they have studied it, they know very much, in fact, we’re very close to a vaccine,”
February 26th 2020 Latin America reports its first coronavirus case, as Brazilian health officials said that a 61-year-old Sao Paulo man, returning from Italy, tested positive for the virus.
Trump::Feb. 26: “Because of all we’ve done, the risk to the American people remains very low. … When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero. That’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”
February 28th 2020 800 people are now infected in Italy, and cases in 14 other European countries remain an area of concern
Sub-Saharan Africa records its first infection.
The first British victim dies of coronavirus onboard the Diamond Princess.
UK authorities confirm the first case of the illness to be passed on inside the country.
The worst week for the global stock markets since the 2008 financial crash.
The WHO raises the coronavirus alert to the highest level.
no action from us/uk re lockdown. Whatever the WHO says at this point is irrelevant – the dangers are self evident
Trump::Feb. 28: “I think it’s really going well. … We’re prepared for the worst, but we think we’re going to be very fortunate.”
Trump::Feb. 28: “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
Trump::Feb. 28: “This is their new hoax.”
February 29th 2020 The US records its first coronavirus death and announces travel restrictions of ‘do not travel’ warnings for areas in Italy and South Korea. It also bans all travel to Iran and bars entry to any foreign citizen who had visited Iran in the previous 14 days.
the virus is loose in the us restrictions not really relevant at this point
March 4th 2020 Cases of Covid-19 surge in the UK, as officials announce the biggest one-day increase so far as 34 cases bring the total to 87
Italy announces it is shutting schools and universities.
Trump::March 4: “Some people will have this at a very light level and won’t even go to a doctor or hospital, and they’ll get better. There are many people like that.”
Trump::March 4: Now, this is just my hunch, but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this, because a lot of people will have this and it is very mild… So if, you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work, some of them go to work, but they get better and then, when you do have a death like you had in the state of Washington, like you had one in California, I believe you had one in New York, you know, all of a sudden it seems like 3 or 4 percent, which is a very high number, as opposed to a fraction of 1 percent.
Trump::March 9 (tweet): “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life and the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!”
March 10th 2020 Nadine Dorries, a junior health minister, becomes the first MP to test positive for coronavirus.
6 people in the UK have now died of the illness, with 373 testing positive
Trump::March 10: “And it hit the world. And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.”
March 11th 2020 The US blocks travel from European countries other than the UK for 30 days, as the WHO declares the virus a pandemic and stock markets plunge.
Chancellor Rishi Sunak announces a £12bn package of emergency support to help the UK cope with the expected onslaught from coronavirus
11 March 2020 Deeply concerned both by the alarming levels of spread and severity, and by the alarming levels of inaction, WHO made the assessment that COVID-19 can be characterized as a pandemic.
Trump::March 11: “I think we’re going to get through it very well.”
Trump::March 12: “It’s going to go away. … The United States, because of what I did and what the administration did with China, we have 32 deaths at this point … when you look at the kind of numbers that you’re seeing coming out of other countries, it’s pretty amazing when you think of it.”
March 13th 2020 The US declares a national emergency and makes $50 billion in federal funds available to tackle the coronavirus.
A host of UK sporting events announce their postponement including the London Marathon. Premier League fixtures are suspended.
Trump::March 15: “This is a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something that we have tremendous control over.”
March 16th 2020 Latin America imposes restrictions on their citizens to slow the spread of the virus. Venezuela announces a nationwide quarantine to begin on March 17th. Ecuador and Peru implement countrywide lockdowns, and Colombia and Costa Rica close their borders. Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro encourages mass demonstrations by his supporters against his opponents in congress.
Boris Johnson begins daily press briefings, urging everybody in the UK to work from home and avoid pubs and restaurants to give the NHS time to cope with the pandemic.
The UK’s death toll rises to 55, with 1,543 confirmed cases, though it is believed 10,000 people have already been infected.
March 17th 2020 France imposes a nationwide lockdown, prohibiting all gatherings and only allowing people to go out for fresh air. France had more than 6,500 infections with more than 140 deaths
The EU bars most travellers from outside the bloc for 30 days.
Rishi Sunak unleashes the biggest package of emergency state support for business since the 2008 financial crash, unveiling £330bn-worth of government-backed loans and more than £20bn in tax cuts and grants for companies threatened with collapse.
Trump::march 17: “I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic”
March 18th 2020 The UK government announces most schools across England will be shut down from Friday until further notice. Wales and Scotland announce they will also close schools.
uk lockdown begins
18 March 2020 WHO and partners launch the Solidarity Trial, an international clinical trial that aims to generate robust data from around the world to find the most effective treatments for COVID-19.
March 19th 2020 For the first time, China reports zero local infections, a milestone in the fight against the pandemic. Experts said the country would need to see at least 14 consecutive days without new infections for the outbreak to be considered over. 34 new cases were confirmed among people who had arrived in China from elsewhere. March 19-24th 2020 United States lockdowns. California 2020-03-19 Clark County, NV 2020-03-20 Connecticut 2020-03-23 Illinois 2020-03-21 Kansas City, KS 2020-03-24 Massachusetts 2020-03-24 Michigan 2020-03-24 New York 2020-03-20 Oregon 2020-03-24 Wisconsin 2020-03-24
March 20th 2020 The UK government orders all pubs, restaurants, gyms and other social venues across the country to close
The chancellor announces the government will pay up to 80% of wages for workers at risk of being laid off
uk lockdown tightens
March 23rd 2020 Prime Minister Boris Johnson, in a televised address to the nation, says that Britons should only go outside to buy food, to exercise once a day, or to go to work if they absolutely cannot work from home. Citizens will face police fines for failure to comply with these new measures.
Worldwide figures stand at more than 270,000 cases and 11,000 deaths.
March 24th 2020 Tokyo Olympics likely to be postponed – according to a member of the International Olympic Committee, the 2020 Tokyo Olympics – set to begin in August – will be postponed. Australia and Canada have already announced that their athletes will not compete
Trump::March 24: “We’re going to be opening relatively soon… I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter.” He added in a subsequent interview: “Easter is a very special day for me… and you’ll have packed churches all over our country.”
March 25th 2020 Prince Charles tests positive for the coronavirus.
In the US, negotiators strike a deal on a $2 trillion coronavirus rescue package intended to assist businesses and millions of Americans amid the halt in the US economy. The bill includes $1,200 for individuals earning up to $75,000, $100 billion for health care providers, and $58 billion for the US airline industry. It would also include $2,400 per month for up to four months to the unemployed. $500 billion goes to industry loans that corporations, cities, and states can apply for.
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced a 21-day lockdown of the country’s 1.3 billion residents. India has only recorded 536 cases of COVID-19 so far.
Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro rails against coronavirus measures being taken in his country, as local officials take preparedness into their own hands.
Do you have that nonsense stored somewhere so you can repeat it whenever someone dares to question your paymasters?
The lengths you are willing to go to disquise the fact that China lied to the world for months regarding what it new about COVID19, and that WHO helped to protect these lies is truly astounding.
The fact that you seem to feel that Trump changing his position as more facts came in is somehow damning is also quite tellinig.
MarkW July 24, 2020 at 12:06 pm
Do you have that nonsense stored somewhere…
The lengths you are willing to go to disquise the fact that China lied to the world for months… WHO helped to protect these lies is truly astounding.
china did not know how bad the virus was until they knew it was novel, it had human human transmission and it was deadly mid / late january
The fact that you seem to feel that Trump changing his position as more facts came in is somehow damning is also quite tellinig.
you cannot be serious with that comment. Trump was still saying it would magically disappear, it is no worse than flu etc. only a couple of weeks ago
Please pull the time line apart with facts that are different to mine i am open to correction
Ah yes, the troll automatically assumes that everything the Chinese government publishes must be the truth.
Who cares what the actual scientists are saying and what the Chines government is actually doing. After all, we have fellow travellers to protect.
As to Trump, your habit of misquoting him and quoting him out of context remains unbroken.
And completely ignoring the WHO and CDC far worse POLICY flip flops and ignoring the WHO and CDC criticism of President Trump’s travel ban, does your long post no good. Additionally while Trump made many statements, some simply to encourage a positive spirit in a time of crisis, his responses were many, and mostly correct. Indeed the economy was recovering quite well, but the humanistic Marxists have done all possible to spike that recovery.
You also ignore the call for an inexpensive treatment by our President, that they sabatoged as much as possible, just because of TDS.
You know, it just HURTS me so that you ignore me, Ghalfrunt:
Ghoul Font is a classic liberal.
He only knows those things that advance his master’s agenda.
Have you heard of – in a nutshell?
When spamming, you have to go big. Other wise people might actually read what you have written.
“but I do not suppose it will make much difference”
You can say that again. Actually, you just did, since you posted the same crapola a few weeks back.
Copy/Paste/Spam Democrat Talking points!
Thanks for building that timeline Ghalfrunt. Looks like it took some time. It seems like your first claim is foundational, i.e., if it falls then so does the castle.
How do you react to the fact that the Chinese Supreme Court contradicts your claim? Why do you disagree with their decision to disbelieve you?
“Li Wenliang received national attention after China’s top court Tuesday criticized Wuhan police for reprimanding eight Wuhan citizens for ‘spreading rumors’ about an illness in late December, in a post on its official WeChat account. Li is considered to be one of the eight, although the police did not identify who specifically they had accused or punished.
. . .
On Dec. 30, Li sent a message in his medical school alumni WeChat group, warning that the ophthalmology department in his hospital had put seven patients from a local seafood market who were diagnosed with severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) into isolation wards.
A screenshot of the message was leaked, and Li was summoned by the hospital’s inspection unit for a talk. Later on Jan. 3, he was called in and reprimanded by local police for spreading rumors online and disrupting social order.
China’s Supreme People’s Court said that in retrospect, the eight Wuhan citizens should not have been punished as what they said was not entirely false.
‘It might have been a fortunate thing if the public had believed the “rumors” then and started to wear masks and carry out sanitization measures, and avoid the wild animal market,’ the top court’s social media account said on Tuesday.
Li told Caixin that he had been worried the hospital would punish him for ‘spreading rumors’ but felt relieved after the top court publicly criticized the police. ‘I think there should be more than one voice in a healthy society, and I don’t approve of using public power for excessive interference,’ said Li.”
What say you?
Given the time from infection to onset of symptoms those diagnosed on Dec 30 could have been infected as early as Dec 15
Also, there is a claim of asymptomatic spreaders, perhaps super spreaders. Probably through fecal contamination a la HIV/AIDS.
So…if the virus s started out BAD and mutated into less dangerous versions as it spread AND the more virulent first generation were released in China, why is it that China has only had (reportedly anyway) 86,202 cases with 4,650 deaths?
Either China is lying and under reporting case/death statistics…
OR China is lying about having a successful treatment/cure/vaccination…
OR China is lying about the source and has:
…Engineered the virus and associated treatment/cure/vaccine in a lab prior to the planned wet market release and subsequent global pandemic.
Which lie is China guilty of???
And why hasn’t the rest of the World vilified them for it???
Why else would they Lock Down internal travel at the start but allow global travel for a number of weeks after the initial case spread from infected patients to doctors.
So…if the virus s started out BAD and mutated into less
I don’t think that I am disagreeing with you. Rather that the virus has been in the wild and spreading for longer than China, WHO et al claim, assert, and following a primary transmission mode that does not correspond to the popular belief, which justifies extraordinary mitigation measures, then primary damage through mistreatment and cross-contamination, and collateral damage through the spread of social contagion.
I personally find the third possibility most plausible, if not a combination of all 3
Another possibility is that the brutal shutdown was effective. They went so far as to weld doors shut to enforce isolation. Such tactics would never be tolerated in the west.
sycomputing July 24, 2020 at 2:16 pm
china delayed reporting yes but it was not known as a serious transmissible disease immediately. WHO gave report 14th january
No one in uk usa europe locked down for months after that – so who delayed the response?
And completely ignoring the WHO and CDC far worse POLICY flip flops and ignoring the WHO and CDC criticism of President Trump’s travel ban, does your long post no good. Additionally while Trump made many statements, some simply to encourage a positive spirit in a time of crisis, his responses were many, and mostly correct. Indeed the economy was recovering quite well, but the humanistic Marxists have done all possible to spike that recovery.
You also ignore the call for an inexpensive treatment by our President, that they sabatoged as much as possible, just because of TDS.
Well, you answered a question I didn’t ask you. Instead, you admitted to a criticism of China’s response but then responded with a criticism of your own.
Go here for more on why this is bad logic – https://tinyurl.com/k4tp28a
Your first premise was this:
“You cannot act on this – it is a sort of pneumonia with unknown transmission. It was published therefore no secret.”
China’s highest court admonished the Wuhan police for intimidating Dr. Wenliang at the end of December 2019 for, “warning that the ophthalmology department in his hospital had put seven patients from a local seafood market who were diagnosed with severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) into isolation wards.”
The patients were already diagnosed with a new form of SARS and isolated as of late December. I don’t know of any natural form of SARS that is NOT transmissible from one infected human to another, do you? Furthermore, I don’t think the Chinese believed this was “a sort of pneumonia with unknown transmission.” As far as I know, you don’t need to isolate patients with mere pneumonia (I’ve visited many a friend of mine in the hospital who was diagnosed with pneumonia), unless you have immuno-compromised patients in the same room, or suspect TB:
Back to my original question to you.
It seems the foundational premise of your argument is false. If so, doesn’t the rest of the castle fall as well?
The Chinese had diagnosed the condition and knew it was a new form of SARS, not mere pneumonia, as evidenced by the fact that they had ALREADY isolated 7 patients AND the unlikely scenario that Dr. Wenliang would “warn” his colleagues about mere pneumonia. I think the Chinese are able to diagnose mere pneumonia pretty well, what say you?
China’s highest court agrees with me, contrary you.
So why do you believe you’re right and they are wrong?
“So why do you believe you’re right and they are wrong?”
You are asking the wrong question. Liberals don’t believe in right or wrong. They believe in good and bad.
Anything that advances their cause is good, anything or anyone who opposes it is bad.
That explains why China shut down internal travel. Because they didn’t know that the virus was transmittable.
Of course the doctors who actually worked on the early cases say different.
But of course GhoulFont will always believe a communist over a scientist.
Chairman Xi- “Dr Lin , that covid virus you produced worked very well as a trial run but probably too many of our people died,and we didn’t have a vaccine ready.Can you come up with something better?
Dr Lin- “Well ,Honored Chairman,we now have covid 20 ready,and an antidote which prevents our people becoming very sick.
Chairman Xi-“And this virus is as deadly as covid 19?”
DrLin-“Oh yes! ”
Chairman Xi-Very good.Try it out on those Muslim chappies ,then send out more tourists ,armed with the antidote.I can see real possibilities here. ”
Dr Lin-“Yes Honoured Chairman-and Hong Kong? ”
Chairman Xi-“Not yet,Dr Lin. “
I am skeptical of climate change science. I don’t think we will warm that much and I don’t think warming will be that harmful.
But…I hate coming to a climate skeptic site where I have to read this right wing political stuff.
China has its own agenda…so do us as Americans.
These political posts and comments really distract from the skeptical truth being made.
About Watts Up With That? News and commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent news
Good point Blue Sky, I mean who doesn’t understand that truth is ultimately determined by one’s political philosophy? A man can be absolutely correct on a thousand different points, but then immediately upon expressing a conservative opinion on one he naturally becomes incorrect on everything prior.
Geez, what’s wrong with people today, you know?
You get it . . . right?
Another moral equivalence troll.
“China has its own agenda…so do us as Americans.”
So did Mao, so did Stalin, so did Pol Pot, so did Hitler.
Obviously we should never have gotten into conflict with any of those people.
Here’s a clue of the extent of reliance. In order to make the investment work at the rare earths mine at Mountain Pass, California , we must do all of the processing in China. That is the case in more industries across America than anyone has compiled and discussed. The not in my backyard trend never stopped expanding in U.S. manufacturing except in grandfathered sites with fewer local competitors. If a majority of the public and leaders don’t know that, then the trend will continue to more extreme levels in more sectors.
I am not aware that there are rare earth minerals in commercial quantities in New Zealand.
Gold and silver are still being extracted but the Greens are against any mine extensions or new projects.
Here in New Zealand we have the Green Party (in government) trying there best to destroy our economy and become more reliant on China.
China is a major trading partner importing massive amounts of dairy products, meat, fruit,wool ,logs for timber,leather and iron sand .
We also had large numbers of Chinese tourists and students before Covid 19.
The Labour Greens government is hell bent on introducing a carbon tax on all emissions and covering our farmland with perpetual forests for overseas investors to earn carbon credits.
What a stupid idea this is ,farming the land produces export receipts every year whereas carbon credits costs every New Zealander if the money goes overseas.
Eventually the trees get burnt or die and decompose and all of carbon is released back into the atmosphere .
Growing trees for Carbon Farming is an offset ,not a solution .
Will the investors pay back their carbon credits when the trees burn or die ?
The Greens have pushed a Zero Carbon Bill which has been passed by 119 out of 120 .
Methane from farmed animals is included and if taxed it becomes a self imposed tariff on all meat and milk products exported and consumed locally .
To the best of my knowledge no other country is taxing methane from farmed livestock .
Methane from farmed livestock is a cycle and not one additional atom or molecule containing carbon is added to the atmosphere over any time frame .
All fodder consumed by farmed livestock has absorbed CO2 from the air and the small amount of methane emitted during digestion soon breaks down in the upper atmosphere into water vapour and CO2.
It is a cycle pure and simple.
These deluded politicians cannot see that we are exporting jobs to China and most of our electricity is generated by hydro with wind and gas back up .
China has ramped up coal fired power stations in the last decade and world coal production and use has soared from 4.7 billion tonnes in 2008 to over 8 billion tonnes in 2018 .
This surge in coal mining is mirrored in atmospheric methane levels which were stable from 1999 to 2008 and then have increased with the rapid increase in coal mining.
Why would a government push up energy costs to every business and consumer in New Zealand and export jobs to China on the pretext of controlling our countries GHG emissions when it actually increases world wide emissions.
Unfortunately politicians worldwide are driven by ideology and they have very little common sense or reasoning power .
You get what you vote for.
If you don’t want stupid libs in charge, vote for someone more conservative.
In many countries the libs spent years building up a party framework while conservatives spent the time counting their money.
Everything China has achieved has been with stolen and given technology and the aid of US politicians.
As long as US innovation and invention flows to China and the cash flows from China to politicians pockets in the US, China will thrive and become more powerful and more a threat to the world.
Not all of it was stolen.
Clinton permitted his buddies to sell a lot of it to China.
“It [The Chinese Communists] shut down domestic travel to and from Wuhan, while allowing millions to fly between Wuhan and Europe, the United States, Africa and Latin America.”
That’s the bottom line. There is no denying the CCP did this. They deliberately foisted the Wuhan virus on the rest of the world. As a consequence, relations with the United States will change drastically, and not for the better.
The Chinese Communists brought this on themselves. We don’t want to hear them whining when the bill comes due.
China needs the United States. The United States does not need China.