Hypothesis: Restrictions on Hydroxychloroquine Contribute to the COVID-19 Cases Surge

guest post by Leo Goldstein

[cr note: This is an interesting hypothesis from Leo Goldstein.  I’ll add some observations]

We have a sharp surge in the new COVID-19 cases. The main [or just one factor out of several, a contributor ~cr] cause is likely to be the drop in the use of Hydroxychloroquine based treatment, following the FDA Memorandum of June 15. The FDA Memorandum accompanied the revocation of the Emergency Use Authorization for Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine from the National Strategic Stockpile. The FDA Memorandum vilified the drug, falsely alleging that it is not safe and “unlikely to be effective” against COVID-19 – when thousands of doctors have treated hundreds of thousands of patients with it . The National Institutes of Health’s NIH COVID-19 Panel updated its Guidelines to match on the FDA’s opinion the next day.

Although Hydroxychloroquine remains an approved drug and doctors can still prescribe it off-label, the FDA’s and NIH’s opinions have significant influence. State governments and medical boards adhere to the FDA opinion, in their subsequent recommendations. Even when HCQ is not banned outright, such opinion creates a chilling effect on pharmacies, doctors, hospitals, and, especially insurance companies.

From the declaration by Jeremy Snavely, 6/22:

Multiple members of AAPS have communicated to AAPS their inability to prescribe hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) for a full regimen to treat or prevent COVID-19, including but not limited to physicians in Western Michigan, Georgia, New Jersey, Arizona, and Texas.

Numerous physician members of AAPS, including this “Dr. John

Doe,” reasonably fear retaliation against them by state medical boards based on

Defendants’ irrational restrictions on HCQ along with the incorporation of the

directive made to state medical boards by the Federation of State Medical Boards.

(ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PHYSICIANS & SURGEONS v FDA et al, 1:20-cv-00493, FEDERAL COURT FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN)

HCQ Benefits

It is important to note that early antiviral treatment of patients with COVID-19 symptoms, using HCQ + AZ (+Zn), benefits not only the patient, but the public in general. Such treatment quickly reduces the viral load in the patient and the chances of the further transmission. [While this may be the case, generally evidence at this time only exists for improved outcomes for patients~cr]

Fig. 1. US daily new confirmed COVID-19 cases per day, 7-day rolling average (*)

Fig. 1 shows that the daily number of new cases was declining in April and May, as many states were re-opening, then remained on the same level, despite an increase in testing. Even the riots and demonstrations that started on May 26 did not lead to visible increases. However, after June 15 the daily number of new cases shot up and continues growing.

Fig. 2. US tests per confirmed COVID-19 case, 7-day rolling average (*)

(*) The typical time between the infection and onset of symptoms is 3-5 days. Notice that the graphs are rolling averages, corresponding to central averages of 3-4 days before.

Fig. 2 shows that the number tests per a new case was steadily growing (getting better) from around April 16 to June 16. It has been falling after that.

The Game Changer

Yes, an early stage Hydroxychloroquine + Azithromycin treatment was the game changer in the fight against COVID-19. Fig. 3-4 shows that COVID-19 has never gotten much traction in Asia, Africa, and Australia, partly because of wide availability and absence of prejudice against CQ/HCQ in those regions. In March, most COVID-19 deaths were happening in Europe, and their number was growing uncontrollably.

Fig. 3. Daily COVID-19 deaths, 7-day rolling average (**)

But on March 16, Dr. Didier Raoult publicized his HCQ+AZ treatment regimen. Doctors in Italy and Spain started to use it, although slowly and only in hospital settings. On March 19, President Donald Trump “touted” it, immediately making this treatment popular in the world. On March 22-23, Dr. Zelenko published his protocol, adding Zinc, and, more importantly, stressing the need to treat early, without waiting for testing or hospital admission. Early HCQ+AZ treatment ramped up in Europe between March 21 and March 28. In Italy, it became the standard of care even for mild cases.

Some of the patients who did not receive HCQ+AZ treatment timely continued dying, with a typical two weeks between closing window for anti-viral treatment and the death. Those who received it, typically recovered. Around March 25, the growing number of new cases was matched by the growing number of HCQ-based treatments. This is reflected by the April 10 peak on the chart, which is an average of recorded deaths from April 3 to April 10. After that, the humans won, and the number of daily deaths went down.

The dynamics in North America was different. Governors of New York and Michigan, suffering from the Trump Derangement Syndrome, rejected the hydroxychloroquine, with heartbreaking consequences.

Fig. 4. Daily COVID-19 cases, 7-day rolling average (**)

(**) If a case outcome is death, this takes place on average 18.5 days after the symptoms appear. Assuming that the window for effective antiviral intervention is 4-5 days, a typical death happens about two weeks after the window closes. There was a significant increase in testing during this period. Notice that the graphs are rolling averages, corresponding to central averages of 3-4 days before.

Prevention of bad outcome of COVID-19 is not the only benefit of HCQ + AZ treatment. It also decreases transmission. COVID-19 patients are most infective within about 4-8 days since symptoms appear. The infected persons who have symptoms show them 3-5 days after the infection. Thus, an untreated “confirmed case” causes more symptomatic or “confirmed” patients 7-11 days later [this is hypothetical and not really known~cr]. This is how it worked until March 20, leading to the averaged peak of about 45 daily cases in the week March 26 – April 2. Then they ramped up the early treatment, immediately decreasing the viral loads and chances of transmission. Around March 25, they were treating enough persons early enough to decrease the transmission coefficient below 1. The continuous drop in the new cases, showing on the chart after April 7, is the evidence to it.

HCQ-based prophylaxis might have been a factor, too. Notice that shutdowns also occurred in the relevant time frame, and, probably, contributed to stopping and reversing the COVID-19 epidemic in Europe.

Texas

States that had low infection levels and used HCQ widely, like Texas and Florida, are especially affected. The daily number of new cases in Texas has quadrupled since June 15! Texas has largely reopened in May. Throughout the May and first half of June, the daily number of cases remained below 2,000. The FDA memo was followed on June 19 by a stronger worded statement from Texas Medical Association. (The current TMA leadership is militantly leftist.) The number of daily new cases went up and exceeded 8,000 on July 1.

Lacking legal authority to prohibit doctors from prescribing FDA-approved non-controlled drugs, some state governments used their ability to regulate pharmacies to cut patients’ access to Hydroxychloroquine. Surprisingly, the Texas State Board of Pharmacy was one of the first to do that. Its order said:

No prescription or medication order for chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine, mefloquine, or azithromycin may be dispensed or distributed unless all the following apply:
(1) the prescription or medication order bears a written diagnosis from the prescriber consistent with the evidence for its use;
(2) the prescription or medication order is limited to no more than a fourteen (14) day supply, unless the patient was previously established on the medication prior to the effective date of this rule; and
(3) no refills may be permitted unless a new prescription or medication order is furnished.

This “consistent with the evidence for its use” was interpreted as a permission to dispense hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for COVID-19. It might be that this interpretation has changed to prohibition after June 16.

[Florida does not have such a leftist medical board and has been forging its own path~cr]

Mutations Potential

The high viral load in the population also increases probability of adverse mutations.

On July 3, Dr. Fauci said that the coronavirus mutated into a more transmissible strain. This is something expected when the only measure against it is social distancing. Such mutation might have been more important factor in the growth of cases.

Whatever the cause of the growth in the new daily cases, wider and early use of HCQ+AZ is a solution. [potentially~cr]

The FDA Memo, June 15

On June 15, the FDA revoked Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for HCQ & CQ. This EUA was useless anyway. But it was accompanied by a memorandum, looking as science, but being anything but.

Outright Lies

The FDA memo claimed 347 reports of adverse effects from HCQ in the context, implying these events happened in the US. It was based on HHS internal Review of Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine conducted by CDER Office of Surveillance and Epidemiology and delivered on May 19 (“the OSE Review”). This review was released to the public on July 1. It said that only 97 alleged cases of adverse effect were in the US, while 250 ones were abroad.

Efficacy

The efficacy of HCQ + AZ, with and without Zn, given early, have been reported by thousands of physicians around the world, and confirmed by more than a dozen of peer reviewed studies. The FDA elected to ignore them. It referred to all COVID-19 treatment regimens, using HCQ, as if they were one treatment. The FDA memo mentioned the British RECOVERY study, in which the researchers gave their patients a toxic dose (2,400 mg/day) of Hydroxychloroquine because they mixed up hydroxychloroquine with hydroxyquinoline. It also referred to the unfinished and not reported ORCHID trial (NCT04332991). This trial repeated old errors – HCQ was given to hospitalized (i.e., likely late stage) patients, with neither Azithromycin nor Zinc.

With the same logic, the FDA performed a literature review. The review was limited to the CDC library, thus omitting all studies not included in it. Even that was not enough. The FDA removed from the review the most valuable part – clinical trials, including randomized clinical trials. It limited the review to observational papers (called “studies of databases” by Dr. Raoult), including the infamous Mehra et al.

Safety

Contrary to the FDA Memo allegations, the OSE Review did not state that HCQ or HCQ+AZ combination is unsafe. The raw numbers suggest extraordinary safety of HCQ+AZ treatment. There were only 97 reports of adverse effects in hundreds of thousands of people treated with it.

QT prolongation was the most reported “adverse effect.” In fact, it is not an adverse effect, but a computed value, providing preliminary warning before an adverse effect, like Torsades de Pointes, arrhythmia, or tachycardia might happen.

The contra-indications for HCQ=AZ (including arrhythmia, tachycardia, and G6PD deficiency), and drug-interactions with strong QT prolongers (including some popular anti-depressants and anti-psychotics) are known and should be respected.

At the late stage, COVID-19 causes cardiac arrest in some of the patients. Apparently, when HCQ+AZ is given at the late stage, there might be negative synergy with the damage from COVID-19 in some patients. But the proper HCQ use is to start the treatment early.

OSE Review acknowledges the following limitations of its data (emphasis is added):

FAERS data have limitations. First, there is no certainty that the reported event was actually due to the product. FDA does not require that a causal relationship between a product and event be proven, and reports do not always contain enough detail to properly evaluate an event. Further, FDA does not receive reports for every adverse event or medication error that occurs with a product. Many factors can influence whether or not an event will be reported, such as the time a product has been marketed and publicity about an event. Therefore, FAERS data cannot be used to calculate the incidence of an adverse event or medication error in the U.S. population.

Conclusion

Doctors and pharmacists should disregard FDA/NIH/AMA/barking-dogs insinuations about Hydroxychloroquine. State governments should remove legal and illegal impediments to use Hydroxychloroquine in early treatment of COVID-19 patients.

[Additional studies are likely needed to develop this hypothesis such as correlating prescriptions per county to any changes to rising case numbers.  There are scores of studies not being performed in this hyperpolitical environment, such as:

One: 65 plus year olds who take care of their grandkids vs those who don’t vs those who don’t have grandkids.

Two: studies of household transmission as a function of socioeconomic status, ethnicity, household size, house size.

Three: missed diagnostic procedures for various cancers, eg mammography, colonoscopies. Extrapolate delayed diagnosis to more costs, ie more advanced, and more deaths.

Four: Monthly death rates for the major classes of diseases from January thru now.

Five: adjudicated reviews of a sample of ‘covid deaths’.

~cr]

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Bruce Cobb
July 6, 2020 5:00 am

The anti-HCQ campaign has been a concerted one based on lies and disinformation, and further fueled by TDS. The tactics used are very similar to those used in the War on “Carbon”. It no doubt has been responsible for thousands of deaths, much human misery, and great economic damage. Those responsible indeed have blood on their hands and should be held responsible.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
July 6, 2020 5:40 am

+1

AWM
July 6, 2020 6:26 am

Somebody should have mentioned the Italian study where they determined that out of 65,000 Italian HCQ RA & Lupus patients, only 20 had contracted the virus (and we hav no info on their compliance with any specific HCQ regimen), no ER or ICU visits, and zero deaths.

Curious George
Reply to  AWM
July 6, 2020 7:34 am

Link, please.

Neo
July 6, 2020 6:48 am

This opinion piece in the wsj.com:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/these-drugs-are-helping-our-coronavirus-patients-11584899438
… seems to be the first to claim real prospects for HCQ

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Neo
July 7, 2020 7:45 pm

I couldn’t read the whole story. I cancelled my Wall Street Journal subscription many years ago.

Thanks for the effort.

Dermot.lee
July 6, 2020 9:09 am

The same university,Oxford recently carried out carried out a study on HCQ. Interestingly but not unexpectedly,it was panned. The eminent Prof leading the study thought it appropriate to administer very high dosage levels.This was raised by a French medical expert on FranceSoir .The Oxford Prof (same interview) implied that the dosage was determined by dosages given for other serious diseases. The France guy was taken aback.
Another Brazilian episode designed to fail. I would wager a large sum that the said enterprise collected its grant!

July 6, 2020 9:09 am

Putting down a marker; post coming later on the use of, and experience docs have with HCQ, Zn and AZ in Brazil.

Roger Knights
July 6, 2020 11:57 am

14 case studies show good results in HCQ Prophylactic and Early Treatment for COVID-19

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vDD8JkHe62hmpkalx1tejkd_zDnVwJ9XXRjgXAc1qUc/edit

Reply to  Roger Knights
July 6, 2020 12:04 pm

Nice: But McGinley thinks this is certainly not evidence of anything but Fake Snake Oil. If Nick is against it, I think it has value… as he is known as an anti barometer of good advice.

Reply to  mario lento
July 6, 2020 1:25 pm

😀

Reply to  mario lento
July 6, 2020 4:14 pm

A few month ago he responded, in an argument that zinc deficiency wasn’t a real thing because “zinc was the most abundant” element in the human body.

He was told by a few people that he was wrong.

He responded by saying he misspoke … he meant that “zinc was the most utilized” element; not even recognizing that his clarification contradicted his original intent.

(confidence, & lots of words, is only an indicator of the ability to confidently use lots of words. Alone, it is not an indicator of anything useful or positive; combined with the stubborn inability to reason it may well be useful as an anti barometer.)

Reply to  DonM
July 6, 2020 4:24 pm

Hi DonM… I read that today… his statement about Zn being in every living things and ergo no one is deficient. The utter nonsense / drivel.

I was going to respond with a question that he would not answer… which is, Nick the McGinley, “Why are vegans typically Zn deficient?”

He seems to play the roll of a doctor, a quack of one, but none the less, he has been coy. Do you know what he does for a living?

Reply to  mario lento
July 7, 2020 9:44 am

Wheat germs have a lot of Zn
poppy too, as has seasame and pumpkin seed.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
July 7, 2020 9:46 am

Thx Krishna. Yes, they do! Seeds are very good foods… and I love the animals that eat them for me 🙂

Reply to  mario lento
July 7, 2020 10:56 am

… for a living?

I don’t know, maybe a portion of his work is on these pages.

Reply to  mario lento
July 8, 2020 11:01 am

Charles the moderator,
Am I expected now to simply not respond to this?
People are lying, and having whole conversations about me, which I was not aware of.
I do not even know how many of them.

Am I not allowed to respond?

Anthony?
Mods?

Reply to  DonM
July 8, 2020 11:36 am

Don,
Why not show the actual conversation?
It is wrong to lie about something that someone else said.

Reply to  mario lento
July 8, 2020 11:37 am

Are you going to cry to mommy if I respond to you, Mario?

Pat
July 6, 2020 12:05 pm

“precautionary principle”

Many experts said the W.H.O. should embrace what some called a “precautionary principle” and others called “needs and values” — the idea that even without definitive evidence, the agency should assume the worst of the virus, apply common sense and recommend the best protection possible.
“There is no incontrovertible proof that SARS-CoV-2 travels or is transmitted significantly by aerosols, but there is absolutely no evidence that it’s not,” said Dr. Trish Greenhalgh, a primary care doctor at the University of Oxford in Britain.
“So at the moment we have to make a decision in the face of uncertainty, and my goodness, it’s going to be a disastrous decision if we get it wrong,” she said. “So why not just mask up for a few weeks, just in case?”

http://archive.is/HWGLR#selection-1037.0-1045.216

TBeholder
Reply to  Pat
July 7, 2020 2:03 pm

He is parroting Taleb. But yeah, it’s a good principle.
Unfortunately, even when applied, it seems to evaporate on contact with conflict of interests (like with HCQ and Vitamin C).

July 6, 2020 12:45 pm

As I read through the comments here I am somewhat perplexed, as it appears that nobody commenting on this July 5th post have read the July 3rd post about the recent study showing a 50% reduction in mortality when using HCQ early in the course of treatment. I only see one mention of that study at all by Roger Knights referring to JoNova’s site.

Am I missing something?

Reply to  TonyG
July 6, 2020 12:50 pm

Exactly: McGinley does not think the study is worthy, he’s used lots of words.

Reply to  mario lento
July 6, 2020 1:28 pm

No mention of side effects today, what’s that with Nich… ?

Reply to  Krishna Gans
July 6, 2020 1:34 pm

I taught Nick a lesson about gaslighting.

I and others are fed up with his emotional pukes and data dumps of nonsense mixed up with solid science… What McGinley needs to learn (and this will reduce his post length) is to remove the drivel and leave the good science. But Nick can’t have that… because it would not advance his agenda, whatever that may be.

Reply to  mario lento
July 8, 2020 11:12 am

Please take apart any of my pukes and explain what is wrong, in detail.
Or even give a single example.
It should be so easy for you.
And so beneficial for those you want to bequeath your insight upon.

Reply to  mario lento
July 6, 2020 1:38 pm

Okay Wayne’s World.
No one is expecting you to be able to read all those werdz.
Everyone knows why the type of study from the other day is far less meaningful than a randomized clinical trial in which the protocol and randomization is done before anyone is treated.
The Look at the data table.
If you know how to examine and interpret data, or if you took the time to read that comment board, you should know several times over why that study does carry much weight.
As for talking about another post…the usual way to do it is to comment on that article on that comment thread, and on this article on this comment thread.

If that concept escapes you, which you clearly say it does, then you have answered your own question about why you are perplexed.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 6, 2020 1:55 pm

Out of all of your “werds”? sarc.

Look, we understand what a double blind study means… We also know about politics and bad data, (think surgisphere) and all of the retracted publications (and piss poor tests designed to not follow the correct HCQ and Zn protocol) you still use as evidence.

What you do not understand is that your ilk are doing harm, while hiding behind words, which prevent people from known treatments that drastically reduce the effects of the disease with almost no downside.

If you are arguing against what I just wrote, you’re not worth listening to ever again.

That about sums you up in several of sentences.

Reply to  mario lento
July 6, 2020 3:50 pm

NMG doesn’t worth any further word. We know in the meantime, that he seems to be on the payroll of Gilead, following his “comments” and ad hominems over the last month since the discussion about HCQ started here. His aversion against HCQ drops out of his pores from head to the feet.
He apparently gives the Michael Mann of Covid-19.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
July 6, 2020 4:07 pm

Hi Krishna: You have been one of the voices of reason…

Do you know anything about NMcG? Where he works, what he does? He’s been coy about who he is.

The troll that he is, popped up here at WUWT and a few months ago. I had several polite questions for him and was very polite, and then out of nowhere, he made up some generalized lie about me as being one of the WUWT authorities… and that I was lying about things and contradicting myself.

For the life of me, I do not understand how he deduced that.

I am certainly not one of the WUWT authorities. I come here to learn, and once in a while I get into a tiff with bullies, like Nick the McGinley. So, now I am watching him as he tries to misinform people.

Reply to  mario lento
July 7, 2020 12:43 am

Mario, in one of his comments above, he told to teach students in chemicals.
I imagine a talk of 45 minutes in front of the students. 5 minutes of these he provides infos, while the other 40 minutes , he is sunbathing in his wording full of meaningless nonsense.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
July 7, 2020 8:41 am

Thank you Krishna:
He does tend to blather on, and I imagine he is rather polarizing.
There is an old saying:

Those who can, –Do; Those who can’t, –teach.

I was a teacher at a high school between engineering and management school for a semester. It was a fun job, not difficult. And I got the sense that teachers grew into the idea that they knew a lot because they were the source of information. Now I should not generalize because like with any industry, there’s good, bad and best among them.

Reply to  mario lento
July 7, 2020 4:52 pm

LOL:
“There is an old saying:

Those who can, –Do; Those who can’t, –teach.

I was a teacher at a high school”

– M. Lento

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 7, 2020 5:03 pm

I was a teacher at a high school (6 months) earning money for college as I said. That is how I can speak from experience, actually immersing myself into teaching at 20 years old, I taught Spanish.

Why do you make it so easy to counter your nonsense. You’re just asking for people to put your dishonesty down.
Can’t you just try to get one thing right?

Reply to  mario lento
July 7, 2020 5:05 pm

Mario and Krishna,
“The troll that he is, popped up here at WUWT and a few months ago. I had several polite questions for him and was very polite, and then out of nowhere, he made up some generalized lie about me as being one of the WUWT authorities… and that I was lying about things and contradicting myself.”

Everyone knows I have been commenting here very extensively for a number of years.
6 or 7 maybe?
I know very well Mario has nothing to do with this site, and that Krishna is not even an American.
He can barely converse in English well enough to be understood.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 7, 2020 5:09 pm

Nick: I never saw your name and did not track that you were using other names. Anyway, from my perspective, your name just popped up… why are you trying to argue about that? I do remember menicholas but learned today that you are afraid of being doxxed again so that is why you change your name.

Reply to  mario lento
July 7, 2020 8:52 pm

Your reading comprehension is almost as bad as Don M.
I used Menicholas years ago.
You just showed up here a few months ago.
I have been a regular here for years.
You will not find anything I have ever said that is made up or factually incorrect.

I have never been doxxed, I do not know where you got that idea…NEVER, until YOU started asking around about where I work and live so you can “keep an eye” on me.
Do not worry, I am gonna quote your words to Gans and the letter of the law.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 7, 2020 8:55 pm

Everyone. Dial back. It’s over. Don’t care who started it.

Reply to  mario lento
July 8, 2020 11:03 am

Charles, I appreciate your need to maintain order and decorum.
But there are entire conversations in which I am demeaned and insulted and lied about.
Am I not to respond?

Mods?
Anthony?

Kevin kilty
Reply to  TonyG
July 6, 2020 3:55 pm

Well, though directed toward Nicholas. The study is retrospective. This means that all events have run their course and we are looking backward in time to see how things turned out. Lots of people were admitted to a particular hospital network between early March and Early May. Some got treatments of various sorts. They applied various hazard ratios to these patients based on their experience with their network population. They found that patients receiving HCQ did better than prognosis. They also paired a subset of patients who had similar risk profiled and then looked at paired difference.

The doctors involved noted the deficiencies of their study — that it was retrospective, not blind, and thus susceptible to bias. Fine. There are also a few odd observations (like HCQ working better than a combination), and apparently a typo in the reported age range of a subset of patients. People denounced the study almost from the get-go. Others hailed it as a breakthrough. It is not gold standard, but it was worthwhile doing, and probably worthwhile to read. There is unlikely to ever be a gold standard study involving HCQ.

Reply to  Kevin kilty
July 6, 2020 4:19 pm

“There is unlikely to ever be a gold standard study involving HCQ.”

Responding to your nice post, I agree with what you’d written. The sad thing is that your last sentence being true to date, is SOLID proof that something is very wrong.

The other thing is that most of the treatment using HCQ was not done in the way it is known to work best… given with Zn and early. Even so, the retrospective showed that even when used incorrectly (late and without Zn) it was better than any other treatment on the planet. Imagine a good study with the cocktail correctly implemented!

I think, doing the right study would prove, without doubt, that the shills like McGinley should have known their side of the story was false. I see parallels to the Mueller investigation… Nick is the equivalent Andrew Weissmann where that “study” was filled with bias against Trump. To save face for the injustice of it all, their version of Nick the McGinley said “We could not exonerate” which is preposterous… since that’s not what a prosecutor’s roll is!

The sins being done are atrocious…

Reply to  Kevin kilty
July 6, 2020 4:55 pm

There are a load of randomized clinical trials that have and/or are being done. Some have reported results, some are about to, some have been discontinued for various reasons.
This study claims that it was consecutive patients over their entire system, from March 10th to May 2, as you noted.
But now look at this one I just found from last month. Same hospitals, a study looking at two time periods in March and how their protocols had changed over time.
It mentions several drugs and treatments not mentioned in this recent paper.
But the recent paper claims it is consecutive patients.
The older one makes a point of highlighting the improvement in outcomes that took place between Early March and Later in the month.
Patients got remdesivir, they got blood plasma, and so on…but these different treatments happened because the doctors were learning.
So comparing regimens like this one does is comparing people treated at different phases of the outbreak. At least partially.
And some patients got remdesivir and plasma, everyone got it at a certain point in time…but they do not mention it, only these four groups.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/henry-ford-detroit-finds-early-steroid-use-helps-stunt-covid/ar-BB15FaS5

What say you to this?
I have no idea how to reconcile these two reports.
Except to be pretty sure they did not give us the whole story in this latest paper.

Kevin kilty
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 7, 2020 9:13 pm

I wonder if you and I are reading the same recent study. What i read, and found in table 1 of the report I have is a discussion of steroids given to subsets of patients, and the steroids included prednisone and its methylated version. Perhaps I don’t see your point, but it seems to me there is no reason to condemn this newer report over the steroid issue.

Just to make sure of our versions, I am reading:

PII: S1201-9712(20)30534-8
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijid.2020.06.099

I noticed on another thread that you had used the handle menicholas at one point. I liked many of those posts, and wondered what had become of menicholas.

Reply to  Kevin kilty
July 8, 2020 12:55 pm

Kevin,
I am a little unclear about which report you are referring to re my condemning it?
I want to say, condemn is a little strong for my preference, if you do not mind me saying so.
I try to keep my criticisms factual, and my opinions more nuanced.
Which report is “this newer report over the steroid issue”?

In any case, I left a lot of comments on the first thread on this a few days ago, dealing with that specific report.
My point is that something fishy is going on.
The report issued by Henry Ford Health Services (HFH) this past week is a large study which gathered data from a huge number of patients over nearly two months.
In that report, the describe the patients as every person who showed up with COVID from March 10th to May 2nd. Please correct me if I got the exact dates.
Two months.
It seemed to be stated that it was every one of the people they treated in that time.
But in their data from this report, they do not make any mention of using remdesivir on a single patient.
They do not mention using plasma on a single patient.
Those are not in their data sheets.
They make one mention of remdesivir, but do not say anything about why no patients are listed as getting it.

There is also the issue of ECMO vs ventilation, and any other medications and treatments, like positioning patients so they could breathe more easily.
Many of these were ideas that were come upon and passed around to various hospitals at a certain point in time during that interval.
In other words, they were things that had not been done, but at some point were done.
So over time the protocols changed.
They cut off the study at the time that remdesivir became the standard of care, at the beginning of May.
But many people were getting it before that.

So the question is, why does the new paper say nothing about any other drugs or treatment the patients they are talking about did or did not get?
They were clearly using other things.
They used remdesivir.
They used plasma.
They used positioning.
These were not mentioned or accounted for.
But they were all things that were likely done starting at some point in time, or where done to some patients but not others all along.

The question I am asking is, how could they not include other treatments and medications those people got, but are not listed in the tables or included in their calculations?

They left out critical information that had a decisive effect on the outcome of many patients.
Left it 100% unsaid wheat else some people got, and who it was, and when.
They also did not include info on WHEN in the two month interval the four groups of patients were treated.
It was not random in time, it was sequential.
Is that patient list really every patient during that interval?
If not, they cherry picked.
(They subtracted some people while saying it is a sequential compilation of everyone.)
If so, they left out info on other things that were given to those people, or not given.

I will say it plainly.
They seem to have committed fraud.

See here:
“In addition to early-use steroids, Henry Ford medical teams have used a combination of Remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine, Interlukin 6, convalescent plasma, proning and other measures to provide treatment for COVID-19.”

Remdesivir, proning, early vs late steroid use, convalescent plasma, and “other measures”.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/henry-ford-detroit-finds-early-steroid-use-helps-stunt-covid/ar-BB15FaS5

Reply to  Kevin kilty
July 8, 2020 12:57 pm

Kevin,
I am a little unclear about which report you are referring to re my condemning it?
I want to say, condemn is a little strong for my preference, if you do not mind me saying so.
I try to keep my criticisms factual, and my opinions more nuanced.
Which report is “this newer report over the steroid issue”?

In any case, I left a lot of comments on the first thread on this a few days ago, dealing with that specific report.
My point is that something fishy is going on.
The report issued by Henry Ford Health Services (HFH) this past week is a large study which gathered data from a huge number of patients over nearly two months.
In that report, the describe the patients as every person who showed up with COVID from March 10th to May 2nd. Please correct me if I got the exact dates.
Two months.
It seemed to be stated that it was every one of the people they treated in that time.
But in their data from this report, they do not make any mention of using remdesivir on a single patient.
They do not mention using plasma on a single patient.
Those are not in their data sheets.
They make one mention of remdesivir, but do not say anything about why no patients are listed as getting it.

There is also the issue of ECMO vs ventilation, and any other medications and treatments, like positioning patients so they could breathe more easily.
Many of these were ideas that were come upon and passed around to various hospitals at a certain point in time during that interval.
In other words, they were things that had not been done, but at some point were done.
So over time the protocols changed.
They cut off the study at the time that remdesivir became the standard of care, at the beginning of May.
But many people were getting it before that.

So the question is, why does the new paper say nothing about any other drugs or treatment the patients they are talking about did or did not get?
They were clearly using other things.
They used remdesivir.
They used plasma.
They used positioning.
These were not mentioned or accounted for.
But they were all things that were likely done starting at some point in time, or where done to some patients but not others all along.

The question I am asking is, how could they not include other treatments and medications those people got, but are not listed in the tables or included in their calculations?

They left out critical information that had a decisive effect on the outcome of many patients.
Left it 100% unsaid wheat else some people got, and who it was, and when.
They also did not include info on WHEN in the two month interval the four groups of patients were treated.
It was not random in time, it was sequential.
Is that patient list really every patient during that interval?
If not, they cherry picked.
(They subtracted some people while saying it is a sequential compilation of everyone.)
If so, they left out info on other things that were given to those people, or not given.

I will say it plainly.
They seem to have committed fraud.

See here:
“In addition to early-use steroids, Henry Ford medical teams have used a combination of Remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine, Interlukin 6, convalescent plasma, proning and other measures to provide treatment for COVID-19.”

Remdesivir, proning, early vs late steroid use, convalescent plasma, and “other measures”.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/henry-ford-detroit-finds-early-steroid-use-helps-stunt-covid/ar-BB15FaS5

That is what I was asking about.
I was wondering what you think about all of this.

it is not what they did say in the newer paper, it is what they left out.

Reply to  Kevin kilty
July 8, 2020 1:34 pm

Kevin,
You said:
“I noticed on another thread that you had used the handle menicholas at one point. I liked many of those posts, and wondered what had become of menicholas.”

Yes, I had always said why I did not use my actual name. I was the National Service Manager(I also held other positions and did much work besides managing service) for a private company in the Lake and Wetlands Management industry.
When I left that company, I began to use my name.
I have never been cryptic about it, and have talked about this several times.
But no one can read every thread and every comment here.
I can barely keep up with one of them sometimes.
So I am not surprised if few people are aware of this.
Since I changed to using my name, I have not switched around.
Prior to Spring of 2017, IIRC, I used a handle, Menicholas. After that, or thereabouts, I have used my name.
And I did say a few times who I was earlier, although maybe not explicitly.
I discovered this and other blogs only within the past 7-10 years, I do not recall exactly when off the top of my head.
Prior to that, I was always very active online, commenting on many sites…typically the comment sections of news sites and such.
But I also spent year at single sites, devoted to a particular issue or set of issues.
I commented for a long time at a place that was where all comment boards for newspaper stories was.
Like, if you were reading the Orlando Sentinel online, and commented on a story, you were directed to a site called Topix.
That site and all comments records was deleted a few year ago.
I had years of commentary there, on global warming, hepatitis C, the financial crash, red light cameras, UFOs, prayer in schools, intelligent design, etc.
All erased.
Then I began trading, and spent years on a few sites talking about trading and issues related to certain stocks and certain subjects.
Notably energy and commodities, biotech…especially biotech vis a vis clinical trials… new drug research, etc.
And I spent years on the Internet Scrabble Club site, where I was for a few years the highest rated player in the world using TWL dictionary and playing 3 minute games with double challenge rules, no escape.
That was when I got fast at typing.
Try it sometime if you want to see how fast you can think, read, and type.
A whole game of scrabble in three minutes! Shew!
I averaged about 1.5 bingos a game.
Impossible to cheat in a three minute game.
If you look away you will lose the game.
Double challenge means if someone plays an invalid word, and you challenge it, they lose their turn.
No escape means if someone is about to lose, they cannot log off and prevent a loss.
isc.ro
Great site.
Lately I spend a lot of time doing lumosity.com.
It would be fun to be able to challenge people online to a public match at some of those cognitive challenge games.

Anyway, that is what has become of me, as far as the interwebs is concerned.
Thanks for asking (sort of) and thank you for the kind words.

July 6, 2020 2:11 pm

And this is an evidence of decrease in prescribing:

Dr. Zelenko: “Each day I get emails from people who want prescriptions for hydroxychloroqiune, azithromycin, etc. Usually these people are over the age of 60 and they almost always have existing health issues. They don’t know what to do. Doctors won’t prescribe because it’s become so political”

https://twitter.com/zev_dr/status/1280162606381240322

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Leo Goldstein
July 6, 2020 3:55 pm

Leo Goldstein
I recently saw my physician for my annual physical. There we were, him with a surgeon’s mask, and me with a Lone Ranger mask. Since he is in a high risk category (probably in his 50s) and sees lots of people up close, I was curious if he was doing anything to help keep him safe beyond masking. I asked him if he was perhaps using HCQ as a prophylactic. He laughed and said “No!” He said he didn’t believe in its usefulness. Now, clearly, that doesn’t provide a consensus. However, it does mean that there are competent MDs who don’t believe the claims made coming from the poor studies. They are not motivated by concerns of malpractice suits. That is what malpractice insurance is for. They, like all of us, are trying to sort out the often conflicting claims and make sense of it all based on their years of education and practice. They sometimes come to conclusions that you and others disagree with. That doesn’t mean that they are controlled by the pharmaceutical industry, or are suffering from TDS. They are just doctors trying to do what is best for their patients. However, to some, everything looks like a conspiracy.

Reply to  Clyde Spencer
July 6, 2020 4:31 pm

Check this out. I found a study from a month ago, Henry Ford Health System.
“The study compared 81 patients admitted between March 10 and March 19 to 132 patients admitted later in the early stages of the pandemic, between March 20 and March 27. The later patients received the steroid protocol, which was implemented on March 20.

When comparing the two groups, those patients treated with a 3-day methylprednisolone protocol implemented on March 20 spent less time in the hospital (5 vs 8 days) and were less likely to be admitted to the ICU (27% vs 44%), being placed on a ventilator (22% vs 37%) or dying (14% vs 26%), according to study results.”

“The use of steroids is one of many examples of how Henry Ford Health System caregivers used a multi-faceted approach to treat patients during the COVID-19 pandemic. In addition to early-use steroids, Henry Ford medical teams have used a combination of Remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine, Interlukin 6, convalescent plasma, proning and other measures to provide treatment for COVID-19.”

WTF? This is the same hospital system, overlapping with the retrospective study, and it mentions a bunch of stuff not mentioned in this more recent “study”.
But the new one says it was consecutive patients admitted between March 10th and May 2.
So those same patients must have been in the newer group.
Did they exclude them, and not say so, or did some people also have plasma, remdesivir, proning, and “other measures”?

This is a frickin scandal.
This new paper from Ford Health is some sort of fraud.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/henry-ford-detroit-finds-early-steroid-use-helps-stunt-covid/ar-BB15FaS5

That is impossible to reconcile with this from the new larger study of HCQ:

“Participants: Consecutive patients hospitalized with a COVID-related admission in the health
system from March 10,2020 to May 2,2020 were included. Only the first admission was included
for patients with multiple admissions. All patients evaluated were 18 years of age and older and
were treated as inpatients for at least 48 hours unless expired within 24 hours.”

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 6, 2020 4:40 pm

The steroid (dexamethason) use only helps quell the immune response in late stage of the disease which leads to cytokine storms. HCQ and Zn should be given early to prevent that.

Steroid use early would make infections more prevalent, since they quell immune response.

Reply to  mario lento
July 6, 2020 6:14 pm

You obviously think you know what steroid hormones do.
But you do not know what you do not know.
They do not “only” do what you say.
And doctors know when to give them.
A large study just showed a 33% improvement when steroids were used.
Doctors have to treat people as they are, in real time.
I think it is time to post some of your comments from a few months ago when you joked about how little you know about biochemistry, medicine, hospital care….

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 6, 2020 6:37 pm

Wow Nick: nice try… So you are saying I got everything right… and then claimed you know more, without any specificity. My statement was clear and correct and you speak in non informative generalities. Keep up the good work.

Reply to  mario lento
July 7, 2020 4:48 pm

You read what I wrote and decided I was saying you got everything right?

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 7, 2020 4:58 pm

Yes, Nicholas: You added something on top of everything I wrote, which was right. Go back, slow down and realize this fact.

Reply to  mario lento
July 7, 2020 8:54 pm

Well let me clarify.
I categorically do not agree with any word or idea you have written, ever, anywhere.
Period.

William Astley
Reply to  Leo Goldstein
July 6, 2020 4:22 pm

I am starting to see this as a fight between good and evil.

It is tragic that the Fake research is hiding the amazing benefit of very early treatment with HCQ + AZ.

This kind of madness will continue until the people find out. People are dying because of the complex corrupt political thing the Democrat party has become, and fake news.

Here is the peer reviewed study results (there will be more, there are still honest people), six Michigan hospitals more than 2500 patients amazing results.

A more than 50% reduction in the patient deaths and a 71% reduction in serious covid damage. Not a single case of the heart attacks that the Lancet study said 25% of the people ‘treated’ with HCQ had.

The FDA is political and 100% on the side of the industry until the people find out about this HCQ scandal.

Hydroxychloroquine provided a 66% hazard ratio reduction, and hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin 71% compared to neither treatment (p < 0.001).

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext

Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin, and Combination in Patients Hospitalized with COVID-19

Results
Of 2,541 patients, with a median total hospitalization time of 6 days (IQR: 4-10 days), median age was 64 years (IQR:53-76 years), 51% male, 56% African American, with median time to follow-up of 28.5 days (IQR:3-53).

Science Research: On People’s Side
HCQ with azithromycin reduced deaths by 71% compared to no treatment. 2500 patients, no heart attacks. 6 Michigan hospitals.

Fake Research: Fake Research should result in criminal charges.
Lancet HCQ ‘study’ had 25% heart attacks and worse outcomes. Logical Reason: Lancet patients were near dead when they were given HCQ. HCQ treatment cannot reverse damage.

Fudging the results to hide a highly effective safe drug at a time of pandemic will result in political problems for the party on the side of evil.

Why is the FDA on the Side of Fake Research?

Reply to  William Astley
July 6, 2020 4:35 pm

I agree… I have been the last to give credit to conspiracy theories.

However, in the last 4 to 5 years, I have seen several materialize.
The first was the Obama administration. The allegations are so extreme is seems non-credible so people get numbs to it. It happened! It’s causing the LEFT to implode and let’s hope they don’t take us with them.

On the HCQ and Covid 19 front: This misinformation is right in front of our faces, but again, the shills will fight to make things confusing while dribbling in bits of science here and there, and then telling non-believers of their disinformation as deniers of authority.

The only answer is that there is money and power behind all of this malfeasance.
Trump was right to dismantle the WHO… We have such a large swamp here in the USA, that we need to make sure to support the people who will vindicate what is truth and allow people to have access to it.

This is an attack of epic proportion.

Ron
Reply to  William Astley
July 6, 2020 7:13 pm

I am starting to see this as a fight between good and evil.

That is in a sentence the whole problem with society these days.

People can’t have an argument anymore without imposing morality on it.

“If you don’t share my opinion you’re evil/paid/whatever”.

The whole concept of just disagreeing for scientific/plausibility/experience reasons seems to not exist anymore in the personal “reality” of some (too many) people.

“Troubling development” is the least I can say about it.

Reply to  Ron
July 6, 2020 7:42 pm

Ron: You are re framing the argument and then attacking a strawman.

This is a fight between good and evil. In short, one simple example. The lies from people who claim it’s dangerous to use HCQ for Covid 19 are intellectually dishonest. At best, it is a grotesque exaggeration to say it is dangerous to use it the way it saves lives.

This is an ideologically perverted argument you are taking up. And it’s perpetuated by the likes of the McGinley. All of the evidence points that it is not dangerous, and don’t give me that bunk about QT elongation caused by HCQ esp when those regimens were purposely done incorrectly. That is malpractice in most cases.

So why would they lie? Maybe, because they consider it a fight to ensure more expensive drugs get used. Maybe it will make Trump look bad instead of him taking credit for knowing it seemed to work back then. Well, if you still think there is no evidence that HCQ and Zn have been shown to be the best low risk, low cost drug and supplement cocktail thus far, you need to state why without the nonsense BS.

Be specific, and cut the nonsense.

Reply to  mario lento
July 7, 2020 4:43 pm

You are a sick man Mario.
I am starting to believe the part about good vs evil.
When someone tells us who they are, we should listen.

I know why you have somehow become obsessed with putting me in the middle of the opposition you face in your delusional “war”.
It is because I make it impossible for you to keep believing what you have decided must be the case.
I am over the target, and getting all the flak.
Just in case you have an occasional moment of clarity, I will just remind you…you are making all of this up.
You have imagined yourself some sort of hero, and so anyone who disagrees with you about anything, must be the antithesis of everything you have ever believed or known.
You actually imagine I am here on an agenda of destruction!
Disagreeing with you, or Jim, or Eliza…is tantamount to a being on a mission of mass murder!
That is what you are accusing here.
Can it penetrate into your mind how crazy that is?

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 7, 2020 4:56 pm

I never called you evil and even went out of my way to say that. I am talking about the misinformation out there that prevents people from safe drugs that is shown to save lives.

Nick, once you became a victim you started to think even more things that are simply not true. Believe me, YOU are not in my head.

Reply to  mario lento
July 8, 2020 8:46 am

Mario said,
“This is a fight between good and evil. In short, one simple example. The lies from people who claim it’s dangerous to use HCQ for Covid 19 are intellectually dishonest. At best, it is a grotesque exaggeration to say it is dangerous to use it the way it saves lives.

This is an ideologically perverted argument you are taking up. And it’s perpetuated by the likes of the McGinley.”

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/05/hypothesis-restrictions-on-hydroxychloroquine-contribute-to-the-covid-19-cases-surge/#comment-3030134

Reply to  Ron
July 7, 2020 4:34 pm

Ron,
Remember when we saw this from the “mean and stupid” faction of the warmistas?
This Mario Lento lunatic is calling people who disagree with him “deniers”.

Here we have people on WUWT declaring to cheers that anyone who is not helping them hand out malaria drugs needs to be thrown in jail!

So far off the deep end of rationality and ability to have a conversation, that anyone who does not think the gubmint needs to hand out pills to everyone in the country like they believe should happen, must be left wing, must be evil, must be stupid, does not believe in “the science”…

The sad thing is, they are oblivious to the fact they have now adopted the mentality of warmistas, and their entire playbook, on steroids.
But it took warmistas years and years to reach that level of insanity, and it was imposed on them by years and years of media harangues and one sided sermonizing, paired up with end of the world doomsday catastrophism.
These guys have done it to themselves! And in only a few months!

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 7, 2020 4:49 pm

Nicholas: You just wrote: “This Mario Lento lunatic is calling people who disagree with him “deniers”.”

Where have I done that? I am sure you’re mistaken.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 7, 2020 8:36 pm

And you say I have a bad memory?
Do I have to post the quote and the link, or will you just admit it?

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 7, 2020 10:07 pm

Mods: I promised I would stop. And I have stopped responding to this poster. I am being lied about again. There is no quote from me, but about me, and it’s being claimed I said something I did not.

I am being defamed here, and I request that it be stopped.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
July 8, 2020 11:39 am

You spent a day or two insulting me Mario.
You went on and on when he said stop.
I did not.
I posted what you asked for.
It was snipped.
Yours were not.
Now you insist I shut up?

William Astley
July 6, 2020 2:44 pm

Hey this Interesting.

We know that regardless of age or sex that Vitamin D normal people 25(OH)D serum level more than 30ng/ml, are 19 times less likely to die than Vitamin D deficient people, 25(OH)D serum level of less than 20ng/ml

So that explains why the Covid death rate in Florida (the sunshine state, blacks and whites go to the beach and hang out outside in Florida) is roughly a factor of 10 less than the covid death rate in New York.

Covid Death Rate Breitbart

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/07/06/south-florida-underreported-coronavirus-cases-drive-down-death-rate-cdc-data-suggests/

Breitbart News relied on COVID-19 (coronavirus disease) confirmed cases and death figures for those countries provided by the Johns Hopkins University tracker.

Using the new CDC and Johns Hopkins data, Breitbart News calculated that South Florida’s death rate was no more than 0.6 as of May 1, down over 80 percent from an estimated 3.6 before the antibodies study.
That mortality rate is between three and eight times lower than the earlier estimates — of two to four percent — that prompted the lockdowns

The 0.6 IFR takes into account the three-week lag, a conservative estimate, between the identification of a COVID-19 (coronavirus disease) infection and when the infected dies.

When taking the data at face value, without accounting for the time it takes for an individual to progress from being diagnosed to dying, Breitbart News determined the death rate was even lower — 0.19 percent.
In comparison, the flu’s death rate in the United State is 0.1 percent on average.

Not all fatality rate estimates account for the estimated time between infection and death.

The 0.19 percent mortality rate (without accounting for the lag between infection and death), as of April 10, is down about 90 percent from about two percent before the CDC study.

Reply to  William Astley
July 6, 2020 3:46 pm

Based on Worldometer numbers, there have been 3778 deaths out of 206447 cases. That is a naive estimate of 1.83%. It’s low, because some of those 206447 will die in the future.

There is some indication that recent cases have a higher survival rate. This is sometimes attributed to better treatment, or to the possibility that the surge following reopening afflicts a greater proportion of young people. If the latter, it may be temporary, as the new cases then infect others in a broader demographic range.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 6, 2020 4:00 pm

Yes Nick.. but you darn well know that “206447” is not the actual number of people who have gotten the infection, right?

I know you are careful and very smart. So why did you just post this? Other inquiring minds wish to know! (my last sentence was trite, I admit that 🙂

Reply to  mario lento
July 6, 2020 5:06 pm

But the post compares this “adjusted” IFR with the case fatality rate in New York. Hence the factor of 10.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 6, 2020 5:19 pm

The relative ratio of the number of deaths to the reported cases shows what is claimed.

But the ‘extrapolated’ probable mortality rate considers uncounted cases. Of course it’s a guess, but it’s reasonably to know there are at least an order of magnitude more infections than are tested for.

So deaths are mostly counted, whereas symptomless and and mild enough infections are not tested are therefore uncounted.

Reply to  William Astley
July 6, 2020 3:52 pm

That’s brilliant.

You have been telling people don’t be vit D deficient (among other things).
I have been angrily shouted down by some Left leaning believers for telling the truth about how to not be a victim of this insanity. Including being called a racists because I don’t admit Covid a racist disease. They should know darn well the Vit D issues surrounding wrong use of sunscreen, vilification of the sun, and how skin color affects how much exposure is optimal for health.

Imagine an informed society not needing to buy expensive drugs when a little common sense knowledge could save so much cost and so many lives.

PS _ I consider you to be highly knowledgeable on this subject…

July 6, 2020 3:30 pm

They aren’t “stupid” in Brazil like we (well, the MSM and certain pols) and easily ‘cowed’ into compliance on Covid-19 treating protocols as here in the western, English-speaking world.

Here is an interview with Dr Christiana Altino de Almeida, from Recife, Brazil, dated June 27 2020.
http://covexit.com/interview-with-dr-altino-de-almeida-from-recife-brazil/

The interview is in 3 parts on Youtube, and linked-to in the above article AND below.

While the interview focuses on Brazil, Dr Altino de Almeida voices her opinions about what is going on internationally, especially in countries such as Canada and the UK, where the pandemic is still active and where those who contract COVID-19 are not treated early for the disease, in large part because of governmental policies prohibiting medical doctors from doing so.

In this first part of the interview, Dr Altino de Almeida talks about her own experience, how she came to treat COVID-19 patients, how early treatment is so important, and how the medical profession in Brazil came to adopt a treatment protocol relying on the experience of numerous medical doctors treating the disease – a protocol now official endorsed by the federal ministry of health.

Part 1 of 3, HCQ and Zinc mentioned at 5:51 onward: https://youtu.be/u22mPRbrgtg?t=352

Part 2 of 3, Personal testimony of Dr Altino de Almeida when she had Covid-19
Use of HCQ AZT and Zinc at 8:54 https://youtu.be/Qo7hsFcIkbQ?t=534

Part 3 of 3 https://youtu.be/u9Hjm6F5spY
Third part of our interview with the esteemed Dr Altino de Almeida, we talk, broadly speaking, about public health policies. This includes many interlinked aspects, such as:

Response at federal and state Levels
o The medical expert board advising the federal minister of health
o The bottom-up information flow relying on medical doctors throughout the country
o The amazing yet tragic episode in Belem, where many were saved, but also where many medical doctors lost their lives
o The protection & prophylaxis for medical professionals, including with the use of ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine
o The constant progress towards convincing medical doctors and local authorities to adopt the new early treatment approach
o The vaccination trials in Brazil and how such vaccination may not be a solution for the country
o A special message to the WHO, to stop claiming there is no treatment and to let the medical doctors of the world to treat their patients

July 6, 2020 5:06 pm

Fig. 3-4 shows that COVID-19 has never gotten much traction in Asia, Africa, and Australia, partly because of wide availability and absence of prejudice against CQ/HCQ in those regions.

This is claptrap. Australia closed borders early, supervised quarantine of returning travellers and quarantined non-essential workers. All that was very effective in preventing the spread.

Right now the genie is out in Victoria with parts of Melbourne back to home quarantine and 9 public housing high-rise in complete lockdown under police guard; essentially home prison with no resident permitted in or out.

The genie got out primarily through partying at the end of Ramadan. So the infection is rife amongst a particular religious group.

Treatment protocols appear to be improving but many US hospitals are again into making triage decisions that will limit the level of care. HCQ has not been part of the treatment protocol in Australia and it is not something used widely in Australia.

The rapid increases in hospitalisations in the USA are across the sunny states where people have been mingling in good sunshine and warm weather.

Reply to  RickWill
July 6, 2020 5:17 pm

US has just started its battle with CV19. It appears a magic cure is still a way off. Death rate will increase quite dramatically mid July, following the increase in infection rates and now hospitalisations.

Right now there is only one certainty – avoid contracting CV19 and encourage everyone you know to do likewise.

Read Nick Cordero’s 95 day battle if you have any doubts about the danger of contracting CV19:
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3091949/coronavirus-broadway-actor-nick-cordero-who-had-leg-amputated

So Nick is now just a statistic but consider the trauma of his last days. This infection does not just kill the old and infirm.

Eliza
July 6, 2020 6:28 pm

Stokes, McGinley, Mosh all these people believe in lockdowns and AGW and dont like Hydroxy havent you noticed Mr Watts? They want the coronavirus panic to continue forever! You are being trolled to death these people are trying to slowly trying to destroy your site without your noticing it! wake up/ Maybe its time to ban them let them troll elsewhere their purpose is to destroy this site with endless long boring rebuttals so people just get tired reading your posts and dont come back. My 2 cents worth cheers.

Reply to  Eliza
July 6, 2020 6:40 pm

McGinley certainly dilutes the intellect of this site. He’s wordy without substance, makes stuff up, and occasionally gets something right by accident. He’s a troll set out to cause harm, and he knows it.

Reply to  Mario Lento
July 7, 2020 4:17 pm

I sincerely hope you idiots do not succeed in turning this site into your private echo chamber for jackass du jour internet buffoonery.
But I have to admit you are making a full court press effort in that direction.
You two have managed to make the worst warmistas to ever show up here look like good natured brainiacs.
Seriously…you nitwits somehow have made niceguy seem only mildy annoying.

niceguy
July 6, 2020 8:43 pm

“missed diagnostic procedures for various cancers, eg mammography, colonoscopies”

Zero evidence these actually do any good, so…

July 7, 2020 12:20 am

There may soon be another data point here:
“CNN reported that Mr. Bolsonaro, 65, had a fever above 100 degrees and had begun taking hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malaria pill he has promoted as effective to treat the virus. The report attributed that information to the president himself.”

Derg
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 7, 2020 3:49 am

I stopped at CNN…

Reply to  Derg
July 7, 2020 4:03 am
Derg
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 7, 2020 6:57 am

I also stopped again. Another data point 😉

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 7, 2020 8:59 am

And this story from Fox News has no mention of HCQ and when you say president, did you think which president they were talking about since Bolsanaro is also president? You just helped us prove how different stories are from CNN. What you posted earlier is nothing like below.

Here’s the entire article from Fox from your link:
Brazil’s Bolsonaro undergoes lung test after reported coronavirus symptoms
Edmund DeMarcheBy Edmund DeMarche | Fox News

Jair Bolsonaro, the Brazilian president who has been widely criticized over his handling of the coronavirus outbreak in his country said his lungs were clean after reports that he showed symptoms of COVID-19, Reuters reported.

“I came from the hospital,” he told Foco do Brazil, which was described by Reuters as a pro-government Youtube channel. “I came from the hospital. I underwent a lung scan. The lung’s clean.”

He did not confirm reports that he was suffering from a fever.

Brazil’s Supreme Court published documents in May showing that Bolsonaro tested negative three times in March after meeting with President Trump in Florida. He hasn’t said whether he took any additional tests for the disease since.

More than 65,000 people have died from COVID-19 in Brazil.

Reply to  mario lento
July 7, 2020 11:05 am

OK, here is another Murdoch report, quoting the man himself speaking on TV:

“The test “has come out and it’s positive,” Bolsonaro said in a television interview from his residence in capital Brasilia, adding that he was taking hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to treat the illness.”

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 7, 2020 11:45 am

Hi Nick: I may have misunderstood your first post. It sounded to me like you were alluding to Trump as the cause of the Brazil’s president self dosing. All three references add up to make it less and less clear what the point is.

There are conflicting reports, Bolsonaro was not positive for Covid 19, Bolsonaro was positive for Covid 19, Bolsonaro took HCQ. Where he got the information to take HCQ is not clear… There is no information that anyone can take to the bank.

The point is, the media decides what to say, and how to say it and there can be no clear conclusions to be drawn.

Can you distill the information into a valid clear story of what transpired wrt to Bolsonaro, and does that distillation come down to whom does one choose to believe? I cannot.

Reply to  Derg
July 7, 2020 8:48 am

I can remember so many stories that came out of CNN that later were debunked. There’s so many that on their face seem like good reporting. So just wait 24 hours, and you will see they are dishonest brokers of anything political.

July 8, 2020 1:38 pm

The report issued by Henry Ford Health Services (HFH) this past week is a large study which gathered data from a huge number of patients over nearly two months.
In that report, the describe the patients as every person who showed up with COVID from March 10th to May 2nd. Please correct me if I got the exact dates.
Two months.
It seemed to be stated that it was every one of the people they treated in that time.
But in their data from this report, they do not make any mention of using remdesivir on a single patient.
They do not mention using plasma on a single patient.
Those are not in their data sheets.
They make one mention of remdesivir, but do not say anything about why no patients are listed as getting it.

There is also the issue of ECMO vs ventilation, and any other medications and treatments, like positioning patients so they could breathe more easily.
Many of these were ideas that were come upon and passed around to various hospitals at a certain point in time during that interval.
In other words, they were things that had not been done, but at some point were done.
So over time the protocols changed.
They cut off the study at the time that remdesivir became the standard of care, at the beginning of May.
But many people were getting it before that.

So the question is, why does the new paper say nothing about any other drugs or treatment the patients they are talking about did or did not get?
They were clearly using other things.
They used remdesivir.
They used plasma.
They used positioning.
These were not mentioned or accounted for.
But they were all things that were likely done starting at some point in time, or where done to some patients but not others all along.

The question I am asking is, how could they not include other treatments and medications those people got, but are not listed in the tables or included in their calculations?

They left out critical information that had a decisive effect on the outcome of many patients.
Left it 100% unsaid wheat else some people got, and who it was, and when.
They also did not include info on WHEN in the two month interval the four groups of patients were treated.
It was not random in time, it was sequential.
Is that patient list really every patient during that interval?
If not, they cherry picked.
(They subtracted some people while saying it is a sequential compilation of everyone.)
If so, they left out info on other things that were given to those people, or not given.

I will say it plainly.
They seem to have committed fraud.

See here:
“In addition to early-use steroids, Henry Ford medical teams have used a combination of Remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine, Interlukin 6, convalescent plasma, proning and other measures to provide treatment for COVID-19.”

Remdesivir, proning, early vs late steroid use, convalescent plasma, and “other measures”.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/henry-ford-detroit-finds-early-steroid-use-helps-stunt-covid/ar-BB15FaS5

July 14, 2020 7:41 pm

Best “alternative” websites I’ve found dealing with scientific and medical studies concerning covid-19

peakprosperity.com (Chris Martenson’s videos and articles)

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

http://medicineuncensored.com/

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