Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, has just suggested Americans don’t believe science.
Anthony Fauci: Americans ‘Don’t Believe Science and They Don’t Believe Authority’
JOSHUA CAPLAN 18 Jun 2020
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, served up harsh criticism of Americans on Thursday, asserting that the country suffers from what he described as an “anti-science bias” problem.
“One of the problems we face in the United States is that unfortunately, there is a combination of an anti-science bias that people are — for reasons that sometimes are, you know, inconceivable and not understandable — they just don’t believe science and they don’t believe authority,” Fauci told the Learning Curve podcast, which is produced by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
“So when they see someone up in the White House, which has an air of authority to it, who’s talking about science, that there are some people who just don’t believe that — and that’s unfortunate because, you know, science is truth,” Fauci continued, referring to the White House coronavirus task force’s once-daily briefings.
“It’s amazing sometimes the denial there is, it’s the same thing that gets people who are anti-vaxxers, who don’t want people to get vaccinated, even though the data clearly indicate the safety of vaccines,” he added. “That’s really a problem.”
…
Read more: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/18/anthony-fauci-americans-dont-believe-science-and-they-dont-believe-authority/
The words were spoken in an episode of “Learning Curve”, hosted by the US Department of Health and Human Services. The “don’t believe science” comments are made around the 15 minute mark.
The following is a short excerpt from the full interview of Dr. Fauci speaking the quoted words:
Fauci also said people should believe him and trust him, because of his long track record of always speaking the truth, through six administrations.
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Says the scientist who was repeatedly wrong and lied.
Speaking as a scientist (PhD Theoretical Physics) a) Scientists don’t believe science – we push, we prod, we doubt, we ask to see the evidence. b) Scientists selectively look “out of the box” to suss out whether there are alternative explanations for the evidence. c) For Scientists, “out of the box” might include, for example, preconceived notions, prejudice, strange attractors in the social dynamics, chaos theory, political motivations, financial interests, “lies to children,” etc.
Non-scientists are not stupid, so if non-scientists do not believe your science, you need to up your game. You need to show that you were also skeptical at first, and that you have considered other possible explanations, and why you rejected them.
In laymen’s terms, asking a lot of questions, and making a lot of speculations, leaves a lot of room to be wrong – which is a natural part of the process.
That’s what the average person doesn’t seem to understand.
Oh we can understand uncertainty just fine. It’s the unquestionable pronouncements coming down from Mt. Olympus that get up our noses.
The average person does understand they are being lied to.
“Speaking as a scientist (PhD Theoretical Physics)”
unverified credentialism.
Psst we cannot verify your appeal to your own credentials.
2nd, they dont matter
Steve so hates it when other people try to steal his schtick.
“unverified credentialism.”
That doesn’t mean that his comment shouldn’t be considered. It should be taken as a potential clue that maybe he knows what he’s talking about.
“Psst we cannot verify your appeal to your own credentials.”
You don’t understand what an “appeal to authority” fallacy means if you don’t udnerstand that expertise matters in some way.
“2nd, they dont matter”
See? What he’s written about science suggests that perhaps his science background confers an understanding of how science works. Where he’s off-base is his phrasing: even though he italicizes “scientists”, it’s scientists who are much of the problem with pop science. It’s scientists who screw up the scientific method and who fail to convey research to the public in a way that is helpful. Science is fine, but scientists are very human with every human fault that the rest of us have.
Well said, Steve.
After living in the DC area for 8+ years, I realized that one’s level in the Federal bureaucracy is based almost exclusively on credentials, not on competency. In the private sector, where I have spent my career, advancement is much more related to accomplishments.
Fauci is stunned that after he continues to make statements which are based on his opinions rather than on hard data, that we no longer accept what he says.
Distrust of “scientists” is not distrust of science. I doubt that bureaucrats would recognize science if it bit them on the
It’s really simple actually.
Many people don’t trust opinions. Many people don’t trust models. Many people don’t trust scientists with conflicts of interest (Fauci with Gilead). Many people don’t trust a scientist who won’t do a simple but valid test of an hypothesis (does HCQ work safely within the first few days of COVID infection).
For those people (myself included) it’s kind of like Jerry McGuire and “Show me the Money.” We say, “Show me the Data!” For example, show me the death rate compared to people with COVID antibodies, which is in the same ballpark (but somewhat higher) as seasonal flu deaths.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRl_sBg6GX8&w=895&h=480%5D
Many people don’t believe that you have to order, at the end of a gun, people to give up their jobs, their relationships, and their freedom, to slow the rate of COVID infections so that hospitals are not overwhelmed.
People aren’t stupid. All you have to do is lay out the data and recommend that people voluntarily restrict their activities and wear masks for a while.
And Fauci wonders why people don’t trust him (which he translates into don’t trust science).
With or without the credentials, he or she is right. We believed in Thalidomide and Cholesterol and an unknown number of drugs for which some results were selectively withheld so as not to interfere with their very lucrative approval. The good doctor’s field of endevour might be the only serious competitor for climate “science” as tops in fraud, opportunism and intellectual dishonesty.
Right, credentials don’t matter, Steven. But mentioning them invites readers to critique my opinions more intensely, or riff on my opinions in slightly different ways.
Sorry I can’t identify myself by name – it allows me to speak more freely while still feeding my family.
Accidentally read the comment without noticing it was Mosher. I’m going to take him off of my mental block list!
“show that you were also skeptical at first, and that you have considered other possible explanations, and why you rejected them.”
Then say it’s worse than you thought, that your opponents believe the earth is flat and are a bunch of doo-doo brains, and that there’s a consensus.
“Hot! and flat. Please maintain the consensus, without which science itself would surely crumble.
“I would rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned.”
(Richard Feynman)
“Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts.” — Richard Feynman (Nobel-prize-winning physicist)
What about the experts in Taiwan. What did they get right? They are more tuned in to China than even the Chinese maybe. In one of his podcasts, Scott Adams blames everything on China. I think it’s this one.
I love the Chinese people. I love Chinese culture. I loathe and fear the Chinese government. I suggest we pay very very close attention to what’s going on in China. We missed the boat this time. Maybe we’ll be smarter next time.
“What about the experts in Taiwan. What did they get right?” My understanding is Taiwan was the first country outside of China to identify a problem. They sent samples of the virus to WHO in December and was the first country to lock down. China told WHO to destroy the samples “because it was too dangerous and they didn’t have the means to contain it” and began quarantining WUHAN while letting international flights to continue. The world could have had the same results as Taiwan if China had acted responsibly. Or China knew exactly what they were doing, knew the danger, tried to hide it, and released #19 on the world.
“The world could have had the same results as Taiwan….” if the world had taken the same steps as did Taiwan.
Taiwan never removed the thermal cameras which they used to screen incoming passengers at TPE during the SARS outbreak.
Taiwan sent a team of physicians to Wuhan in mid December to help. This team realized that SARS-COV-2 patients were in isolation, which meant human to human transmission.
The WHO is responsible for ignoring Taiwan’s warnings.
I’m not a fan of the erhu.
Shen Yun is Falun Dafa. I like them about as much as I like the current Chinese government.
I’d rather listen to the GuZheng. It’s an Oriental version of the zither, and just about every land on Earth has some kind of zither. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDMg01S603Q
This pretty cool.
KT66,
That is very cool…. Thanks!
Fiddlestick?
Thinking about getting a T-shirt.
B I N G O
Scientists have lost all credibility in my book. Either there is a narrative they must prove regardless of the science or they need to have an outcome that produces the most cash for themselves.
The amount of flip flops the coronavirus task force, CDC, WHO Etc. did on face mask alone is enough to make one doubt any utterance these experts make.
re: “Scientists have lost all credibility in my book.”
Let’s be careful to be impeccable with our words. I do not think painting an entire group of people with accusations will ever lead to a cogent discussion. I do not think you meant to do that, but we can more precisely state things. Pick a descriptor that describes the specific scientists who have caused a loss of credibility, because there are many scientists who follow good scientific process.
See Eisenhower’s farewell address. All fields of science can be bought. There was a “disgrace to the profession” who represented the corruption of science but the scientific community was largely silent. Sorry but the good and homourable scientists will have to clean house. I am not actually from Missouri as was Harry Truman but I am from Missouri when it comes to authoritative claims. Respect is earned, not obtained by divine right.
Please read my post gain. I believe there are a lot of paid for bad scientists. But the act of being a scientist is not in and of itself a bad thing. Of course, we probably agree that climate science is corrupt, most of it. But many are good and have done good work, excellent in many cases.
Mario, I am quite sure there are honorable scientists. Some of them post and leave comments on this site. I think they are in the minority. The empirical evidence for the vast majority suggests the scientific method has been abandoned in favor of a predetermined outcome. It’s not longer follow the science. Follow the money and/or ideology and make the science conform. How dare you lay people question the gospel. Fauci statement says as much.
Fauci’s statement
I agree with you completely on this statement!
Politicians have tried to usurp “science” for their own ideology….but rather than spruce up their ideology, they instead tainted science.
Correct. Government “scientists” are little different than the Catholic clergy of the monarchies that supplied the “science” of the king’s right to rule by divine providence. In this fashion they got to share in the plunder from the peasants and the crown got the peasants to voluntarily give up their freedom and property.
It is fair to point out that today scientists facing the public have in large measure demanded they be believed in the same way priests of old did, on the basis they have a special knowledge not accessible to the general public and are therefore “in the know” while others outside are not. In religious terms this is called “Gnostic knowledge”. It was of course, a heresy in the days of yore, and rooted out by the Church.
Religion often gets a bad rap in scientific discussions because it is convenient, but many of the advances in science over the last 1600 years were made in research centres sponsored by the anti-gnostics who felt that a faith in strict logic and experiment led to useful discoveries. They were right, many times.
Now that wanna-be leaders demand their version of the world be accepted unexamined by the unwashed and unschooled, we have weak assertions, coincidental correlations based on far too many secret files. Those devoted to the truth will not be impressed
“they just don’t believe [my] science and they don’t believe [my] authority”.
It never ceases to amaze me how liberals just assume that everyone is supposed to believe whatever they (the liberals) say.
They are shocked, even horrified, whenever they find out that people have doubts about them.
Some of them might even want to cry.
They’re on the right side of history, so it’s not possible for them to be wrong.
And they freak out at any suggestion that they may be wrong, because if they’re wrong then they aren’t on the right side of history, and their entire lives of virtue-signalling have been wasted.
The ‘woke’ left is just another cult at this point.
Written by the leftist progressive Jonathan Haidt, The Righteous Mind is a very well researched book on the foundations of moral psychology and the many reasons humans behave the way they do. One excellent point in the book concerns overwhelming confirmation bias innate in every human and our inability to detect or correct it. This bias is expressed in righteous indignation to conflicting facts. This innate confirmation bias leads us to seek contrary facts and ask “Must I believe this?” Thus these folks search for flaws/errors that show the facts are in error. Find one ‘error’ and the person no longer must believe.
Confirmation bias also leads to searching for confirming facts if we desire something to be true (see, there are pictures of aliens! They really exist!).
One very interesting conclusion in the book – leftists rely on only three of the six foundations of moral psychology exclusively, whereas, conservatives rely on all six equally. Consequently, conservatives are better than progressives at seeing another person’s perspective.
One study cited indicates that extreme political beliefs are actually addictive and solicit the secretion of dopamine to the pleasure center. It feels good to be righteously angry at your political opponent.
Weylan: I think there should be a post that discusses the phenomenon you laid out, about the human condition and related the lessons to specific science issues that have become politicized.
Doctor Savage, whom I’d actually met in public, (reached out and we shook hands), describes liberalism as a mental disorder. That’s evidently a simplification of what you wrote. I use the term slices, suggesting that some people are missing slices within their cognitive ability to reason… and you have described that there are some 6 “slices.” Well done!
The addiction of being “right.” We all-myself included-are susceptible to it.
Yet, Liberals do not believe what they say. They will say literally anything they feel necessary at the moment, while reserving the right to completely contradict it later, if necessity arises.
Liberalism Is Violence.
It’s the absolute certainty contained in ‘scientific’ proclamations, especially the consensual ones, that raise the mistrust level in us unwashed publicans. After all, mere repetition of unfounded and unprovable claims does not confer any papal-type infallibility.
They just don’t believe proven liars.
Fauci has science and authority mixed up.
People trust science if you show them the proof, not if you tell them to believe you.
You’re not a prophet do not act like one.
Americans haven’t seen any real science in a very long time.
Anthony Fauchi loses any shred of credibility he might have when it’s examined in the context of his personal financial investment pharmaceutical companies that stood any potential gain from activities at the NIH, where he has significant influence. His conflicts of interest call into question any statement he might make as a scientist. He should be stripped of his platform and credentials and left to wallow in the politics he married himself to long ago.
du•plic•i•tous doo͞-plĭs′ĭ-təs, dyoo͞-►
adj. Given to or marked by deliberate deceptiveness in behavior or speech.
Sorry Dr Tony – through this ‘pandemic’ your speech would be best described with the above adjective.
We are not anti-science folk, we are ‘don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining’ folk
I often don’t believe untested … “progressive science” which is just “soviet science” with a refreshed name.
Yes, does he mean science like hypothesis testing, experimentation and observation or does he mean something else?
I’d like to hear what he says about x and y chromosomes and gender.
I’m not clear as to whether you are directing your questions to me or the subject of the thread, Dr. Fauci ?
It was more rhetorical. I think you rightly point out the existence of progressive science.
Dear Dr. Fauci….maybe we just don’t believe YOU.
Well, I look at him and I can’t help but think, ‘Dr. Shrinker’.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=doctor+shrinker+theme+song&docid=608049197211583593&mid=398852CBA2CBEEDBBBCE398852CBA2CBEEDBBBCE&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
When I look at pictures of face diaper cult members I can’t help but think of that interrogation scene in the Matrix when Mr Smith fuses Neo’s mouth shut. Or Hannibal Lecter
Old man Fauci added nothing of value to the pandemic.
Unless you value wrong predictions and bad advice.
He’s a true ue government bureaucrat, who should have retired, or been fired, decades ago.
A statement by Fauci is no more useful than flipping a coin.
Like most “experts”, Fauci is unable to say We don’t know, or I don’t know.
This virus is still too new to have any experts … yet Fauci presented himself as a Covid.expert.
Fauci’s “science” used a shoddy, buggy, Tinkertoy™ model to produce an estimate of US deaths. One week the model said it would be over two million dead in the US.
Fauci convinced the State Governors that “science said” that death was imminent, so they went on lockdown.
Then, the model came up with a new prediction for US deaths … sixty thousand.
One week, “science says” two million deaths. The next week “science says” sixty thousand deaths … so, Dr. Fauci, just which “science” are you claiming that we “don’t believe in”? The two million deaths “science”, or the sixty thousand deaths “science”?
And the sting in the tale? Both of those estimates were way wrong. Neither one was particularly good “science”. Lots of folks didn’t believe either one. And yet obviously, Dr. Fauci believed them. They were “science” after all, belief is required.
And as we continue to try to recover from the enormous human cost of the lockdowns, I can, however, tell you what “science” Americans truly don’t believe.
Dr. Fauci’s “science” …
w.
Very good, Willis.
“Consensus Science” ~= “Junk Science”
Another equation to consider:
Full lockdown + face masks = Poverty + Idle Hands = Riots + mayhem + Arson
Politically motivated science is also junk science. Unfortunately, with the amount of government money behind science these days almost all science has a strong political component.
Good comment Willis.
>>
Dr. Fauci’s “science” …
<<
The science would be epidemiology. It’s the: “branch of medicine which deals with the incidence, distribution, and possible control of diseases and other factors relating to health.” In order to determine the effects of say COVID-19, one must run an epidemiological experiment. Epidemiological experiments are extremely difficult to design, they are extremely difficult to run, and they are extremely difficult to analyze. I don’t see where Dr. Fauci had or has such an experiment to refer to. His science then would be his so called expert opinion. It’s a mockery to call it science when there’s no actual science backing his opinion.
Jim
Cruise ships and military ships could provide a “natural experiment”. These opportunities have been wasted.
Curious George
June 19, 2020 at 2:31 pm
Cruise ships and military ships could provide a “natural experiment”. These opportunities have been wasted.
——————————
No amount of experiment can change or “reinvent the wheel” in what already clearly known from history past experience learning, aka the already gained knowledge of humanity.
First, it is like stamped in stone when it comes to epidemiology;
a) In consideration of highly infectious diseases, especially the air borne kind, and specifically
pulmonary type, there is no way of a stop, block, halt, flattening, or whatever kinda of such silly things to contemplate as possible, one way or another.
This is already non disputable. Has been, it is, and will be always unchangeable, regardless of these new vaccine guys like Fauci.
b) the most sensitive and clean slate for detection, monitoring, tracing, and validation of such epidemic high infection diseases impacting the population, happens to be the younger age group.
The babies, the very young and the young. The pediatrics.
To a point that even now in the 21st century, most of poor and non developed countries rely very much in such as simple and robust method, to detect asses/validate the condition of the infectious diseases for their populations.
Now, pretty clearly the likes of Faucis of this world are seriously and considerably contesting this very well established knowledge, with their strange thingy, which these guys for some very strange reason still call it science.
And bizarrely they do moan, complain and smear, when challenged and caught lying and deceiving the rest.
Fauci is just a charlatan, completely incompetent and with no character. An empty vessel.
There is no value at all anymore on whatever Fauci says or has to say.
cheers
well the usa carrier that wentfrom 3 to 1k cases pdq was a good enough example?
Yes, the scientists who collected excellent data on the Diamond Princess were heroic, and their data, though scorned by the powerful, has proven to be very accurate at least for how the virus has impacted the over-50 crowd.
Those initial models of death rates were shots in the dark, and predictably end up way wide of the target. Those who published them are to blame for not making that clear. I presume the epidemiologists who offered those number attached riders such as “deaths could be as high as” but the mainstream media (known for talking down to its readers, but not known for its scientific acumen) dumbed down the predictions by removing the riders.
And in light of the science we can all judge for ourselves the level of risk we are all willing to accept in our everyday lives. Science cannot make that decision for us, it can only inform it. And the authorities have no place in judging the choices we make.
“Fauci’s “science” used a shoddy, buggy, Tinkertoy™ model to produce an estimate of US deaths. One week the model said it would be over two million dead in the US.
That is funny.
here is the tinkertoy
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/13/the-math-of-epidemics/
‘You can see why the Gompertz Curve is used to describe epidemics—it’s a very good fit to real-world epidemiological data. And because any given Gompertz Curve ends up at some maximum value that it doesn’t exceed, it also allows us to estimate the part of the curve that hasn’t happened yet. So far, there have been some 7,362 cases in South Korea. The Gompertz Curve estimates that the final total will be on the order of some 8,100 cases or so. ”
WRONG
cases are now at 12,300
amateur hour
“Although the uncertainty in this one is greater, it looks at present like the final total of deaths in South Korea will be on the order of one hundred, give or take.”
WRONG
deaths are at 280
As I pointed out at the time
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/13/the-math-of-epidemics/#comment-2937083
looking at COUNTRY DATA will trip you up every time because spread is LOCAL
Sure enough the spread continues in Seoul. 67 cases today, we eased our restrictions.
BAM.
Finally.
Faucci and company were looking at more than 1 model.
the WORST CASE models assumed we DID NOTHING.
if you really want to see how professionals evaluate models,
here
https://reichlab.io/covid19-forecast-hub/
Mosh,
thanks for explaining clearly once more the “beauty” of the exponential(s) on peanuts… 🙂
cheers
Let’s not forget how he was on TV every night for weeks telling us how masks won’t help, and are even potentially harmful.
Ah–but then this science may also not be quite settled–
“Fauci: The Bernie Madoff of Science and the HIV Ponzi Scheme that Concealed the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Epidemic ”
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45069570-fauci
(I’ve not finished the book yet so am not advancing any conclusions, but it seems that not all agree that Fauci’s word is necessarily correct or final. But he just may be the reason why people are no longer believing ‘science’ nor ‘authority’, and should possibly be the last person to complain and to draw attention to the problem.)
For predictions associated with the exponential growth portion of their respective curves I would not be surprised to find out that Bernie Madoff has the better track record.
Actually, at one point Bernie Madoff was a legitate investment manager with a pretty good track record, that’s what allowed him to pull-off the scam that he did. I think that’s pretty common with government “scientists” they have one or two small successes and then get promoted to their level of incompetence, at start scamming the publics money behind a facade of “I got the title.” .. see James Hansen, Gavin Schmidt, and on and on
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases gave the wuhan center millions, so now he is Speaking the truth 😐 First he said its not to bad, then its soooo bad, then we need masks, then masks are pointless. I am sure he has been wrong on countless other things as well..
The main question is, why is fauci the only one allowed to apeak about the virus and what we can and can not do…
When the Royal Society took the motto Nullius in Verba people understood that science was about challenging data and conclusions, that facts had to be discovered and demonstrated, that being an authority was insufficient then the post modernists took over academia…
Which peer review study is Dr Fauci referring to on that Science = Truth assertion?
Does hee, Fauci, believe in science ?
I’m not certain he does 😀
Maybe it’s not that they don’t believe authority or scientists. Maybe they are just skeptical because they’ve been lied to by authority and scientists so many times. Maybe there’s a reason nobody has actually seen the wolf in the village after 30 years.
In the early 1980s ALL of Medical Science (i.e. the Consensus) didn’t believe Australian doctors Barry Marshall and Robin Warren, who found that h. pylori caused ulcers. They subsequently won the Nobel Prize in 2005 for their findings. Big raspberry for Science, especially “consensus science”.
Dr. Fauci is apparently forgetting a basic tent of the scientific method – always question (science), and always question scientific results, especially if it is “consensus science”, A.K.A. “junk science”.
Not quite a big raspberry for science – but a big raspberry for the way humans behave.
The problem is that science works well well when people do not make their living from it. When the truth is the only thing that is the issue. The minute your income, your mortgage, your family and your progress in life become involved, accurate science takes a back seat….
Spot on!
Thalidimide, cane toads, virgins into volcanoes, eugenics, phlogiston, plate tectonics – the list of ‘believe the science’ failures is long.
Wiki has a long list for Dr Fauci to refer to – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superseded_theories_in_science – although they have ‘Global cooling’ as a failure but not ‘Global warming’
FIFY: “Americans don’t believe in the Appeal to Authority.”
“Science is truth” – oh dear. 😀
How many false starts, ridiculous predictions and bogus studies have we had on CV-19 alone? Falsifying death certificates for more Medicare money? The latest masks for everyone is the next big nothing. Our mayor just issued a mask requirement that includes homemade cloth masks made from t-shirts and even includes bandanas. Bandanas? You can sneeze or cough and the fabric will elevate if it isn’t secured, let alone not stopping the viral particles.
The Coronavirus is extremely small and the only thing you can wear that will actually stop it is a rated respirator that is fitted around your face. In the meantime all the masked lemmings out there will be walking 6′ behind the person in front of them at CostCo, breathing in aerosols from the person in front that their mask doesn’t stop through the person behind’s mask that doesn’t stop anything either.
To me what will finally happen is a government approved vaccine will be given to the general population and the MSM will declare it is 99.9% effective even though behind the scenes it is not even 70% effective. Everyone breathes a big sigh of relief and finally takes off their do nothing mask.
Here is some science Fauci: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data
There’s not much scientific basis to the magic 6′ protection zone either.
Dr.Maria Van Kerkhove spoke science. She is the head of the Outbreak Investigation Task Force at the WHO. She said, twice, that asymptomatic people do not transmit the disease, and then she elaborated on it. Then every other health professional including Dr. Fauci contradicted her, and forced her to try to minimize her statement the next day.
She essentially said that social distancing and the lockdowns are worthless. What a giant botch history will see here. 45 million Americans and hundreds of millions more around the world, out of work. Hundreds of thousands of businesses bankrupted, and all because these “experts” do not believe their own eyes.
“they just don’t believe science and they don’t believe authority”
Authority # Science.
“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” – Albert Einstein
That was the phrase I picked up on too. Science and ‘authority’ are just plain opposites, yet Fauci equates them.
Having spent a lifetime in science education, it takes a great deal to get students to follow the data, and accept that there may be bugs or a different interpretation of the data. Its also very difficult to shine a light on popularly held beliefs without having students just tune out that part. Fauci is right that most people do not operate within the constraints of science. Take the specialist who is pressuring my husband to take a particular drug: data are weak, but the metaanalysis at present can only say it has a nonsignificant positive effect on cardiac events AND a nonsignificant negative effect on all cause mortality.
Science is not equal to Truth. Science is based on philosophy. There are many instances where demonstrated results have been ignored because they were at odds with the philosophical assumptions of the scientists. The heliocentric model of the Solar system vs. the geocentric model. BTW, Galileo was NOT subject to house arrest because of his model, but because, in print, he mocked the pope-he also mocked the current scientific establishment. (gee doesn’t that sound familiar?)
Wrong-Galileo was charged with heresy for agreeing with the Copernican Theory, he pleaded Guilty for a consideration of passing his sentence in house arrest. Yew, Galileo was a person who challenged the views of “authority” sometimes, but his actual charge was Heresy for Supporting the Copernican Theory.
No U Wrong-Vatican astronomers of the time were warming up to the Copernican model themselves and several would likely have come to Galileo’s defense, if he hadn’t been a completely disagreeable and onerous personality who in addition to astronomy, also published some highly unorthodox religious treatises as well as thinly-disguised smear pieces toward his political and intellectual rivals. *That* was what raised the eyebrows of the Pope more than anything. That Galileo had quite openly mocked him in another publication didn’t exactly help matters either.
It didn’t help that Galileo also was teaching Heliocentrism as fact, when at the time it was merely the theory that best fit the data. It wouldn’t be proven till later, after better measurements were made of planetary motion.
You’re spinning around the issue. Galileo was Charged with Heresy for supporting Copernican Theory. Yes, he did all of the other things, but the charge was Heresy. He was not charged with mocking the Pope or any other issues. He was charged with Heresy for supporting Copernican Theory.
Plea bargaining by Galileo seems to be what transpired. Sort of went up against an earlier incarnation of the deep state.
Yes, AFTER he signed an agreement to back off-which he broke. The scientific establishment of the day was saying that the geocentric was ‘proven fact.’ He also had some very unorthodox religious views. Basically it was a plea bargain. If the church had gone after him for his religious views and if he refused to back down (he was a very stubborn man) they would have had to impose the death penalty. The pope actually liked the man, but he couldn’t let anyone break a pledge that had been made to him. So the points are 1) the ‘proven facts’ were against him-the math to disprove the ‘proven facts’ weren’t developed until years later. 2) Because he was in the minority and was calling nearly everyone who didn’t agree with him a fool he created powerful enemies. 3) He was also denying essential Christian doctrine-while trying to claim he still was a Christian. 4) Since the Pope had kind feelings for him-despite the fact that Gallelio broke his promise and mocked the pope-and didn’t want to try him for his religious beliefs and to placate the scientific establishment, the Pope opted to try him on a charge for which he wasn’t obligated to use the death penalty.
Not everything is as simple as your world view Ron.
Yes, that’s the actual charge at the end of a long and drawn out process.
But the reasons as to why he was charged are as others have detailed.
Treat it like Al Capone’s conviction. Couldn’t do him for the gangster activities, got him on tax fraud.
LOL!
The goal of science should always be truth.
Unfortunately there are many occasions where the goal of “scientists” is not the truth.
Remember the Schneider quote about how scientists have to choose for themselves whether they want to be truthful, or effective.
Dr Fauci is wrong.
Science is not truth. It is a process used to explain and understand the way the universe and everything in it works. To assert that science is truth is scientism, not science.
Fauci styles himself as a high priest in a while lab coat. Yep, scientism at its best.
Reminds me of a Carlin line about doctors – it’s all guesswork in a white coat.
Good comment.
Science is a process, not an outcome.
Monna,
Exactly correct. And that process starts with asking questions. The current experts are not exempt from being questioned either. In fact, according to the late great Dr. Richard Feynman, we must question the experts if we want human knowledge to move forward. And it seems to me, that when the situation is novel, facts are few, and data is of unknown quality, we should consider everybody’s conclusions as mere speculation.
I would love to question them. Strap them down and find every thing they have ever thought, said or done in their entire lives. Then do it again and compare the answers. Then do it again and compare the answers. 4th time through the lies will be over. Oh, and spare me the outrage. They are our enemy, time to treat them as such, along with a whole lot of other human haters.
This seems to be the first resort of “scientists” who don’t have the evidence they need to support their hypothesis. They present dire claims based on unverified models. When people doubt their claim they move to the fallacious Appeal to Authority both directly (“You don’t believe me, the expert”) and indirectly (“You don’t believe the Science [that I give you]”).
This man was wrong about AIDS/HIV becoming a heterosexual pandemic in the US
This man was wrong about H1N1/Swine Flue becoming a pandemic in the US
This man was wrong about every prediction and recommendation regarding the Covid19/Wuhan Virus
So, he must act the wounded hero. Soon he will be awarded the Michael Mann Nobel Prize for sincere arrogance.
According to the above boxed text, Dr. Fauci stated “. . . there are some people who just don’t believe that — and that’s unfortunate because, you know, science is truth.”
In reply, I offer three pertinent observations by others:
“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.” — Richard Feynman
“What is truth?” — Pontius Pilate
“The truth is rarely pure and never simple.” — Oscar Wilde
It’s truth until an other finding is truth / until proven wrong
Interesting you include Pontius Pilate there.
The truth about that guy is his wife had an imperial document from her “uncle” at Capri to execute the man no matter what the truth was. His a**s was covered, as we say today.
The truth in this case is still reverbrating throughout history.
Science is not possible without the pursuit of truth.
Einstein put it best when asked on radio why he would throw out one theory after another. He said they were like diamonds found in a mine, but he was searching for the thoughts of God.
This virus is an existential test – major science is needed to get a handle on it.
bonbon, since you dissed Pontius Pilate for asking a simple question that has bugged great philosophers throughout human history, I will ask you simply: What is your definition of truth?
And please try to avoid including the concept of “faith” in your definition.
Bonbon.
If Einstein was searching for the thoughts of God, those thoughts would be worthless unless he was scientifically able to prove God existed, and that God created it all to be able to explain it.
Einstein should have listened to what he was saying.
Science is an endless pursuit.
What do you mean by ‘scientifically’? The scientific method cannot even prove that Ceaser existed. How do you expect the scientific method to prove or disprove God?
BTW if God doesn’t exist then you must explain an even greater miracle than theists believe. You must explain how the Universe created itself out of nothing.
“BTW if God doesn’t exist then you must explain an even greater miracle than theists believe. You must explain how the Universe created itself out of nothing.”
Something surely came from nothing. Reality itself (with or without a god) came from nothing. Which is a greater miracle? A super-powerful god or mere undifferentiated energy? Or perhaps the end of a prior universe caused ours. Or a pair: ours causes theirs and theirs causes ours. Atheists usually shrug and say “I don’t know.”
History cannot, in general, be proved. Bayes Theorem gives probabilities. By using free will to make plans — visions of the future — and carry them out we can try to affect the future.
Yesterday is but a dream,
Tomorrow is but a vision,
But Today, well lived,
Makes every yesterday a dream of happiness,
And every tomorrow a vision of hope.
— Kalidasa
The easy retort, how many scientists/experts said masks, especially DIY masks were not necessary. Even dumb me had my wife and I wearing DIY masks at the beginning of March. Albeit, at the time I thought COVID-19 was an influenza like virus rather than SARS like.
As well, the readers on this site, are fully aware of the malarkey ‘97%’ scientists espousing CO2 induced climate change.
Surely the name of the virus, rather than the disease it can cause, gave the game away? The virus is SARS CoV-2.
Ps. in the midst of all of this, I have to post this article about how differently the Hong Kong flu was handled.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/why-life-went-on-as-normal-during-the-killer-pandemic-of-1969/
I was a senior in High School during that. From early Oct. (68) through mid May (69) I don’t remember a full classroom because of that Flu. Life went on as usual
In the U.K around 85000 people died of Hong Kong flu started July 1969
Life went on as normal, no panicking or panic buying
Fast forward to 2020 and I am not panicking and am living my life as normal as I can under lockdown conditions
I was a senior in high school that fall. I caught the flu during that summer. My only change in behavior was to wear a jacket during mid-summer because I was running a fever.
SR
The reputation of science as being truthful has taken a right hammering over the last few years. All courtesy of the left wing Green political agenda , peddling its alarmist Meme.
“science” said it was the animal fats.
Hmmm… anti-science, Doctor? How about your “science” delivering:
– Statements from WHO that were not accurate.
– Models which forecast vastly higher infection and death rates than actually occurred, with very little correction and rework when they proved false.
– Telling the public “masks don’t work” then later saying everyone must wear a mask.
That’s just a few cases, Doctor. Maybe it’s not that Americans don’t believe science so much that many of us no longer fully believe you.
Much like a decision on surgery, I look for a second opinion after hearing Dr. Fauci. Even the Russian proverb “doveryai, no proveryai” (trust but verify) doesn’t work because there has to first be trust.
It will take quite some time before the public trusts science. Science has been politicised and pseudo scientists are now paid to come up with information that suits the political agenda. The fact that the word ‘scientist’ has been tagged on to so many other fields, such as ‘political science’ has made the concept of science meaningless. The ‘experts’ come out of the woodwork calling themselves scientists when in reality their field of work is unrelated to what they are putting forward as though they know what they are talking about. This must change if science has any hope of regaining respect in their field. They need to be called out!
I know that there are scientists with integrity, at some point they are going to have to speak out. Sadly the public seem to be largely gullible, but when you get a pseudo scientist saying that people don’t believe ‘the science’ then maybe that’s a starting point for getting some real science out there.
I’m one of the members of the public who sees through the BS and I’m not alone.
I hate to mention this, but…
In the State of Washington, they have annual exams for K-12 students (3rd – 10th grades). 90% of 10th grade students _FAIL_ the Science exam (only 10% pass – just in case :-); thus, this exam isn’t used for anything useful – Unions won’t allow it. So, not only is the problem bought-and-paid-for scientists but ignorant citizens.
You are absolutely correct Bill. Australian education used to rate highly on a global scale. We have slipped down the scale badly in the past decade. The focus is more on leftist ideas now and our students are ignorant. To be accepted by a university to study for a teachers degree you only need a pass of 50%, and even then they will make exceptions and allow a lower mark.
They are deliberately dumbing down education, people are easier to control when they’re ignorant. They are ignorant because they are taught to believe what they are told, they are not taught how to learn. They are taught not to question when they best way to learn is to question everything. To seek knowledge.
I’d have to see the test before I could agree with your conclusion.
I’ve seen way to many “science” tests where the only way to get a good grade was to regurgitate whatever nonsense the teacher was passing out that year.