Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, has just suggested Americans don’t believe science.
Anthony Fauci: Americans ‘Don’t Believe Science and They Don’t Believe Authority’
JOSHUA CAPLAN 18 Jun 2020
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, served up harsh criticism of Americans on Thursday, asserting that the country suffers from what he described as an “anti-science bias” problem.
“One of the problems we face in the United States is that unfortunately, there is a combination of an anti-science bias that people are — for reasons that sometimes are, you know, inconceivable and not understandable — they just don’t believe science and they don’t believe authority,” Fauci told the Learning Curve podcast, which is produced by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
“So when they see someone up in the White House, which has an air of authority to it, who’s talking about science, that there are some people who just don’t believe that — and that’s unfortunate because, you know, science is truth,” Fauci continued, referring to the White House coronavirus task force’s once-daily briefings.
“It’s amazing sometimes the denial there is, it’s the same thing that gets people who are anti-vaxxers, who don’t want people to get vaccinated, even though the data clearly indicate the safety of vaccines,” he added. “That’s really a problem.”
…
Read more: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/18/anthony-fauci-americans-dont-believe-science-and-they-dont-believe-authority/
The words were spoken in an episode of “Learning Curve”, hosted by the US Department of Health and Human Services. The “don’t believe science” comments are made around the 15 minute mark.
The following is a short excerpt from the full interview of Dr. Fauci speaking the quoted words:
Fauci also said people should believe him and trust him, because of his long track record of always speaking the truth, through six administrations.
Says the scientist who was repeatedly wrong and lied.
Speaking as a scientist (PhD Theoretical Physics) a) Scientists don’t believe science – we push, we prod, we doubt, we ask to see the evidence. b) Scientists selectively look “out of the box” to suss out whether there are alternative explanations for the evidence. c) For Scientists, “out of the box” might include, for example, preconceived notions, prejudice, strange attractors in the social dynamics, chaos theory, political motivations, financial interests, “lies to children,” etc.
Non-scientists are not stupid, so if non-scientists do not believe your science, you need to up your game. You need to show that you were also skeptical at first, and that you have considered other possible explanations, and why you rejected them.
In laymen’s terms, asking a lot of questions, and making a lot of speculations, leaves a lot of room to be wrong – which is a natural part of the process.
That’s what the average person doesn’t seem to understand.
Oh we can understand uncertainty just fine. It’s the unquestionable pronouncements coming down from Mt. Olympus that get up our noses.
The average person does understand they are being lied to.
“Speaking as a scientist (PhD Theoretical Physics)”
unverified credentialism.
Psst we cannot verify your appeal to your own credentials.
2nd, they dont matter
Steve so hates it when other people try to steal his schtick.
“unverified credentialism.”
That doesn’t mean that his comment shouldn’t be considered. It should be taken as a potential clue that maybe he knows what he’s talking about.
“Psst we cannot verify your appeal to your own credentials.”
You don’t understand what an “appeal to authority” fallacy means if you don’t udnerstand that expertise matters in some way.
“2nd, they dont matter”
See? What he’s written about science suggests that perhaps his science background confers an understanding of how science works. Where he’s off-base is his phrasing: even though he italicizes “scientists”, it’s scientists who are much of the problem with pop science. It’s scientists who screw up the scientific method and who fail to convey research to the public in a way that is helpful. Science is fine, but scientists are very human with every human fault that the rest of us have.
Well said, Steve.
After living in the DC area for 8+ years, I realized that one’s level in the Federal bureaucracy is based almost exclusively on credentials, not on competency. In the private sector, where I have spent my career, advancement is much more related to accomplishments.
Fauci is stunned that after he continues to make statements which are based on his opinions rather than on hard data, that we no longer accept what he says.
Distrust of “scientists” is not distrust of science. I doubt that bureaucrats would recognize science if it bit them on the
It’s really simple actually.
Many people don’t trust opinions. Many people don’t trust models. Many people don’t trust scientists with conflicts of interest (Fauci with Gilead). Many people don’t trust a scientist who won’t do a simple but valid test of an hypothesis (does HCQ work safely within the first few days of COVID infection).
For those people (myself included) it’s kind of like Jerry McGuire and “Show me the Money.” We say, “Show me the Data!” For example, show me the death rate compared to people with COVID antibodies, which is in the same ballpark (but somewhat higher) as seasonal flu deaths.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRl_sBg6GX8&w=895&h=480%5D
Many people don’t believe that you have to order, at the end of a gun, people to give up their jobs, their relationships, and their freedom, to slow the rate of COVID infections so that hospitals are not overwhelmed.
People aren’t stupid. All you have to do is lay out the data and recommend that people voluntarily restrict their activities and wear masks for a while.
And Fauci wonders why people don’t trust him (which he translates into don’t trust science).
With or without the credentials, he or she is right. We believed in Thalidomide and Cholesterol and an unknown number of drugs for which some results were selectively withheld so as not to interfere with their very lucrative approval. The good doctor’s field of endevour might be the only serious competitor for climate “science” as tops in fraud, opportunism and intellectual dishonesty.
Right, credentials don’t matter, Steven. But mentioning them invites readers to critique my opinions more intensely, or riff on my opinions in slightly different ways.
Sorry I can’t identify myself by name – it allows me to speak more freely while still feeding my family.
Accidentally read the comment without noticing it was Mosher. I’m going to take him off of my mental block list!
“show that you were also skeptical at first, and that you have considered other possible explanations, and why you rejected them.”
Then say it’s worse than you thought, that your opponents believe the earth is flat and are a bunch of doo-doo brains, and that there’s a consensus.
“Hot! and flat. Please maintain the consensus, without which science itself would surely crumble.
“I would rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned.”
(Richard Feynman)
“Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts.” — Richard Feynman (Nobel-prize-winning physicist)
What about the experts in Taiwan. What did they get right? They are more tuned in to China than even the Chinese maybe. In one of his podcasts, Scott Adams blames everything on China. I think it’s this one.
I love the Chinese people. I love Chinese culture. I loathe and fear the Chinese government. I suggest we pay very very close attention to what’s going on in China. We missed the boat this time. Maybe we’ll be smarter next time.
“What about the experts in Taiwan. What did they get right?” My understanding is Taiwan was the first country outside of China to identify a problem. They sent samples of the virus to WHO in December and was the first country to lock down. China told WHO to destroy the samples “because it was too dangerous and they didn’t have the means to contain it” and began quarantining WUHAN while letting international flights to continue. The world could have had the same results as Taiwan if China had acted responsibly. Or China knew exactly what they were doing, knew the danger, tried to hide it, and released #19 on the world.
“The world could have had the same results as Taiwan….” if the world had taken the same steps as did Taiwan.
Taiwan never removed the thermal cameras which they used to screen incoming passengers at TPE during the SARS outbreak.
Taiwan sent a team of physicians to Wuhan in mid December to help. This team realized that SARS-COV-2 patients were in isolation, which meant human to human transmission.
The WHO is responsible for ignoring Taiwan’s warnings.
I’m not a fan of the erhu.
Shen Yun is Falun Dafa. I like them about as much as I like the current Chinese government.
I’d rather listen to the GuZheng. It’s an Oriental version of the zither, and just about every land on Earth has some kind of zither. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDMg01S603Q
This pretty cool.
KT66,
That is very cool…. Thanks!
Fiddlestick?
Thinking about getting a T-shirt.
B I N G O
Scientists have lost all credibility in my book. Either there is a narrative they must prove regardless of the science or they need to have an outcome that produces the most cash for themselves.
The amount of flip flops the coronavirus task force, CDC, WHO Etc. did on face mask alone is enough to make one doubt any utterance these experts make.
re: “Scientists have lost all credibility in my book.”
Let’s be careful to be impeccable with our words. I do not think painting an entire group of people with accusations will ever lead to a cogent discussion. I do not think you meant to do that, but we can more precisely state things. Pick a descriptor that describes the specific scientists who have caused a loss of credibility, because there are many scientists who follow good scientific process.
See Eisenhower’s farewell address. All fields of science can be bought. There was a “disgrace to the profession” who represented the corruption of science but the scientific community was largely silent. Sorry but the good and homourable scientists will have to clean house. I am not actually from Missouri as was Harry Truman but I am from Missouri when it comes to authoritative claims. Respect is earned, not obtained by divine right.
Please read my post gain. I believe there are a lot of paid for bad scientists. But the act of being a scientist is not in and of itself a bad thing. Of course, we probably agree that climate science is corrupt, most of it. But many are good and have done good work, excellent in many cases.
Mario, I am quite sure there are honorable scientists. Some of them post and leave comments on this site. I think they are in the minority. The empirical evidence for the vast majority suggests the scientific method has been abandoned in favor of a predetermined outcome. It’s not longer follow the science. Follow the money and/or ideology and make the science conform. How dare you lay people question the gospel. Fauci statement says as much.
Fauci’s statement
I agree with you completely on this statement!
Politicians have tried to usurp “science” for their own ideology….but rather than spruce up their ideology, they instead tainted science.
Correct. Government “scientists” are little different than the Catholic clergy of the monarchies that supplied the “science” of the king’s right to rule by divine providence. In this fashion they got to share in the plunder from the peasants and the crown got the peasants to voluntarily give up their freedom and property.
It is fair to point out that today scientists facing the public have in large measure demanded they be believed in the same way priests of old did, on the basis they have a special knowledge not accessible to the general public and are therefore “in the know” while others outside are not. In religious terms this is called “Gnostic knowledge”. It was of course, a heresy in the days of yore, and rooted out by the Church.
Religion often gets a bad rap in scientific discussions because it is convenient, but many of the advances in science over the last 1600 years were made in research centres sponsored by the anti-gnostics who felt that a faith in strict logic and experiment led to useful discoveries. They were right, many times.
Now that wanna-be leaders demand their version of the world be accepted unexamined by the unwashed and unschooled, we have weak assertions, coincidental correlations based on far too many secret files. Those devoted to the truth will not be impressed
“they just don’t believe [my] science and they don’t believe [my] authority”.
It never ceases to amaze me how liberals just assume that everyone is supposed to believe whatever they (the liberals) say.
They are shocked, even horrified, whenever they find out that people have doubts about them.
Some of them might even want to cry.
They’re on the right side of history, so it’s not possible for them to be wrong.
And they freak out at any suggestion that they may be wrong, because if they’re wrong then they aren’t on the right side of history, and their entire lives of virtue-signalling have been wasted.
The ‘woke’ left is just another cult at this point.
Written by the leftist progressive Jonathan Haidt, The Righteous Mind is a very well researched book on the foundations of moral psychology and the many reasons humans behave the way they do. One excellent point in the book concerns overwhelming confirmation bias innate in every human and our inability to detect or correct it. This bias is expressed in righteous indignation to conflicting facts. This innate confirmation bias leads us to seek contrary facts and ask “Must I believe this?” Thus these folks search for flaws/errors that show the facts are in error. Find one ‘error’ and the person no longer must believe.
Confirmation bias also leads to searching for confirming facts if we desire something to be true (see, there are pictures of aliens! They really exist!).
One very interesting conclusion in the book – leftists rely on only three of the six foundations of moral psychology exclusively, whereas, conservatives rely on all six equally. Consequently, conservatives are better than progressives at seeing another person’s perspective.
One study cited indicates that extreme political beliefs are actually addictive and solicit the secretion of dopamine to the pleasure center. It feels good to be righteously angry at your political opponent.
Weylan: I think there should be a post that discusses the phenomenon you laid out, about the human condition and related the lessons to specific science issues that have become politicized.
Doctor Savage, whom I’d actually met in public, (reached out and we shook hands), describes liberalism as a mental disorder. That’s evidently a simplification of what you wrote. I use the term slices, suggesting that some people are missing slices within their cognitive ability to reason… and you have described that there are some 6 “slices.” Well done!
The addiction of being “right.” We all-myself included-are susceptible to it.
Yet, Liberals do not believe what they say. They will say literally anything they feel necessary at the moment, while reserving the right to completely contradict it later, if necessity arises.
Liberalism Is Violence.
It’s the absolute certainty contained in ‘scientific’ proclamations, especially the consensual ones, that raise the mistrust level in us unwashed publicans. After all, mere repetition of unfounded and unprovable claims does not confer any papal-type infallibility.
They just don’t believe proven liars.
Fauci has science and authority mixed up.
People trust science if you show them the proof, not if you tell them to believe you.
You’re not a prophet do not act like one.
Americans haven’t seen any real science in a very long time.
Anthony Fauchi loses any shred of credibility he might have when it’s examined in the context of his personal financial investment pharmaceutical companies that stood any potential gain from activities at the NIH, where he has significant influence. His conflicts of interest call into question any statement he might make as a scientist. He should be stripped of his platform and credentials and left to wallow in the politics he married himself to long ago.
du•plic•i•tous doo͞-plĭs′ĭ-təs, dyoo͞-►
adj. Given to or marked by deliberate deceptiveness in behavior or speech.
Sorry Dr Tony – through this ‘pandemic’ your speech would be best described with the above adjective.
We are not anti-science folk, we are ‘don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining’ folk
I often don’t believe untested … “progressive science” which is just “soviet science” with a refreshed name.
Yes, does he mean science like hypothesis testing, experimentation and observation or does he mean something else?
I’d like to hear what he says about x and y chromosomes and gender.
I’m not clear as to whether you are directing your questions to me or the subject of the thread, Dr. Fauci ?
It was more rhetorical. I think you rightly point out the existence of progressive science.
Dear Dr. Fauci….maybe we just don’t believe YOU.
Well, I look at him and I can’t help but think, ‘Dr. Shrinker’.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=doctor+shrinker+theme+song&docid=608049197211583593&mid=398852CBA2CBEEDBBBCE398852CBA2CBEEDBBBCE&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
When I look at pictures of face diaper cult members I can’t help but think of that interrogation scene in the Matrix when Mr Smith fuses Neo’s mouth shut. Or Hannibal Lecter
Old man Fauci added nothing of value to the pandemic.
Unless you value wrong predictions and bad advice.
He’s a true ue government bureaucrat, who should have retired, or been fired, decades ago.
A statement by Fauci is no more useful than flipping a coin.
Like most “experts”, Fauci is unable to say We don’t know, or I don’t know.
This virus is still too new to have any experts … yet Fauci presented himself as a Covid.expert.
Fauci’s “science” used a shoddy, buggy, Tinkertoy™ model to produce an estimate of US deaths. One week the model said it would be over two million dead in the US.
Fauci convinced the State Governors that “science said” that death was imminent, so they went on lockdown.
Then, the model came up with a new prediction for US deaths … sixty thousand.
One week, “science says” two million deaths. The next week “science says” sixty thousand deaths … so, Dr. Fauci, just which “science” are you claiming that we “don’t believe in”? The two million deaths “science”, or the sixty thousand deaths “science”?
And the sting in the tale? Both of those estimates were way wrong. Neither one was particularly good “science”. Lots of folks didn’t believe either one. And yet obviously, Dr. Fauci believed them. They were “science” after all, belief is required.
And as we continue to try to recover from the enormous human cost of the lockdowns, I can, however, tell you what “science” Americans truly don’t believe.
Dr. Fauci’s “science” …
w.
Very good, Willis.
“Consensus Science” ~= “Junk Science”
Another equation to consider:
Full lockdown + face masks = Poverty + Idle Hands = Riots + mayhem + Arson
Politically motivated science is also junk science. Unfortunately, with the amount of government money behind science these days almost all science has a strong political component.
Good comment Willis.
>>
Dr. Fauci’s “science” …
<<
The science would be epidemiology. It’s the: “branch of medicine which deals with the incidence, distribution, and possible control of diseases and other factors relating to health.” In order to determine the effects of say COVID-19, one must run an epidemiological experiment. Epidemiological experiments are extremely difficult to design, they are extremely difficult to run, and they are extremely difficult to analyze. I don’t see where Dr. Fauci had or has such an experiment to refer to. His science then would be his so called expert opinion. It’s a mockery to call it science when there’s no actual science backing his opinion.
Jim
Cruise ships and military ships could provide a “natural experiment”. These opportunities have been wasted.
Curious George
June 19, 2020 at 2:31 pm
Cruise ships and military ships could provide a “natural experiment”. These opportunities have been wasted.
——————————
No amount of experiment can change or “reinvent the wheel” in what already clearly known from history past experience learning, aka the already gained knowledge of humanity.
First, it is like stamped in stone when it comes to epidemiology;
a) In consideration of highly infectious diseases, especially the air borne kind, and specifically
pulmonary type, there is no way of a stop, block, halt, flattening, or whatever kinda of such silly things to contemplate as possible, one way or another.
This is already non disputable. Has been, it is, and will be always unchangeable, regardless of these new vaccine guys like Fauci.
b) the most sensitive and clean slate for detection, monitoring, tracing, and validation of such epidemic high infection diseases impacting the population, happens to be the younger age group.
The babies, the very young and the young. The pediatrics.
To a point that even now in the 21st century, most of poor and non developed countries rely very much in such as simple and robust method, to detect asses/validate the condition of the infectious diseases for their populations.
Now, pretty clearly the likes of Faucis of this world are seriously and considerably contesting this very well established knowledge, with their strange thingy, which these guys for some very strange reason still call it science.
And bizarrely they do moan, complain and smear, when challenged and caught lying and deceiving the rest.
Fauci is just a charlatan, completely incompetent and with no character. An empty vessel.
There is no value at all anymore on whatever Fauci says or has to say.
cheers
well the usa carrier that wentfrom 3 to 1k cases pdq was a good enough example?
Yes, the scientists who collected excellent data on the Diamond Princess were heroic, and their data, though scorned by the powerful, has proven to be very accurate at least for how the virus has impacted the over-50 crowd.
Those initial models of death rates were shots in the dark, and predictably end up way wide of the target. Those who published them are to blame for not making that clear. I presume the epidemiologists who offered those number attached riders such as “deaths could be as high as” but the mainstream media (known for talking down to its readers, but not known for its scientific acumen) dumbed down the predictions by removing the riders.
And in light of the science we can all judge for ourselves the level of risk we are all willing to accept in our everyday lives. Science cannot make that decision for us, it can only inform it. And the authorities have no place in judging the choices we make.
“Fauci’s “science” used a shoddy, buggy, Tinkertoy™ model to produce an estimate of US deaths. One week the model said it would be over two million dead in the US.
That is funny.
here is the tinkertoy
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/13/the-math-of-epidemics/
‘You can see why the Gompertz Curve is used to describe epidemics—it’s a very good fit to real-world epidemiological data. And because any given Gompertz Curve ends up at some maximum value that it doesn’t exceed, it also allows us to estimate the part of the curve that hasn’t happened yet. So far, there have been some 7,362 cases in South Korea. The Gompertz Curve estimates that the final total will be on the order of some 8,100 cases or so. ”
WRONG
cases are now at 12,300
amateur hour
“Although the uncertainty in this one is greater, it looks at present like the final total of deaths in South Korea will be on the order of one hundred, give or take.”
WRONG
deaths are at 280
As I pointed out at the time
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/13/the-math-of-epidemics/#comment-2937083
looking at COUNTRY DATA will trip you up every time because spread is LOCAL
Sure enough the spread continues in Seoul. 67 cases today, we eased our restrictions.
BAM.
Finally.
Faucci and company were looking at more than 1 model.
the WORST CASE models assumed we DID NOTHING.
if you really want to see how professionals evaluate models,
here
https://reichlab.io/covid19-forecast-hub/
Mosh,
thanks for explaining clearly once more the “beauty” of the exponential(s) on peanuts… 🙂
cheers
Let’s not forget how he was on TV every night for weeks telling us how masks won’t help, and are even potentially harmful.
Ah–but then this science may also not be quite settled–
“Fauci: The Bernie Madoff of Science and the HIV Ponzi Scheme that Concealed the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Epidemic ”
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45069570-fauci
(I’ve not finished the book yet so am not advancing any conclusions, but it seems that not all agree that Fauci’s word is necessarily correct or final. But he just may be the reason why people are no longer believing ‘science’ nor ‘authority’, and should possibly be the last person to complain and to draw attention to the problem.)
For predictions associated with the exponential growth portion of their respective curves I would not be surprised to find out that Bernie Madoff has the better track record.
Actually, at one point Bernie Madoff was a legitate investment manager with a pretty good track record, that’s what allowed him to pull-off the scam that he did. I think that’s pretty common with government “scientists” they have one or two small successes and then get promoted to their level of incompetence, at start scamming the publics money behind a facade of “I got the title.” .. see James Hansen, Gavin Schmidt, and on and on
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases gave the wuhan center millions, so now he is Speaking the truth 😐 First he said its not to bad, then its soooo bad, then we need masks, then masks are pointless. I am sure he has been wrong on countless other things as well..
The main question is, why is fauci the only one allowed to apeak about the virus and what we can and can not do…
When the Royal Society took the motto Nullius in Verba people understood that science was about challenging data and conclusions, that facts had to be discovered and demonstrated, that being an authority was insufficient then the post modernists took over academia…
Which peer review study is Dr Fauci referring to on that Science = Truth assertion?
Does hee, Fauci, believe in science ?
I’m not certain he does 😀
Maybe it’s not that they don’t believe authority or scientists. Maybe they are just skeptical because they’ve been lied to by authority and scientists so many times. Maybe there’s a reason nobody has actually seen the wolf in the village after 30 years.
In the early 1980s ALL of Medical Science (i.e. the Consensus) didn’t believe Australian doctors Barry Marshall and Robin Warren, who found that h. pylori caused ulcers. They subsequently won the Nobel Prize in 2005 for their findings. Big raspberry for Science, especially “consensus science”.
Dr. Fauci is apparently forgetting a basic tent of the scientific method – always question (science), and always question scientific results, especially if it is “consensus science”, A.K.A. “junk science”.
Not quite a big raspberry for science – but a big raspberry for the way humans behave.
The problem is that science works well well when people do not make their living from it. When the truth is the only thing that is the issue. The minute your income, your mortgage, your family and your progress in life become involved, accurate science takes a back seat….
Spot on!
Thalidimide, cane toads, virgins into volcanoes, eugenics, phlogiston, plate tectonics – the list of ‘believe the science’ failures is long.
Wiki has a long list for Dr Fauci to refer to – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superseded_theories_in_science – although they have ‘Global cooling’ as a failure but not ‘Global warming’
FIFY: “Americans don’t believe in the Appeal to Authority.”
“Science is truth” – oh dear. 😀
How many false starts, ridiculous predictions and bogus studies have we had on CV-19 alone? Falsifying death certificates for more Medicare money? The latest masks for everyone is the next big nothing. Our mayor just issued a mask requirement that includes homemade cloth masks made from t-shirts and even includes bandanas. Bandanas? You can sneeze or cough and the fabric will elevate if it isn’t secured, let alone not stopping the viral particles.
The Coronavirus is extremely small and the only thing you can wear that will actually stop it is a rated respirator that is fitted around your face. In the meantime all the masked lemmings out there will be walking 6′ behind the person in front of them at CostCo, breathing in aerosols from the person in front that their mask doesn’t stop through the person behind’s mask that doesn’t stop anything either.
To me what will finally happen is a government approved vaccine will be given to the general population and the MSM will declare it is 99.9% effective even though behind the scenes it is not even 70% effective. Everyone breathes a big sigh of relief and finally takes off their do nothing mask.
Here is some science Fauci: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data
There’s not much scientific basis to the magic 6′ protection zone either.
Dr.Maria Van Kerkhove spoke science. She is the head of the Outbreak Investigation Task Force at the WHO. She said, twice, that asymptomatic people do not transmit the disease, and then she elaborated on it. Then every other health professional including Dr. Fauci contradicted her, and forced her to try to minimize her statement the next day.
She essentially said that social distancing and the lockdowns are worthless. What a giant botch history will see here. 45 million Americans and hundreds of millions more around the world, out of work. Hundreds of thousands of businesses bankrupted, and all because these “experts” do not believe their own eyes.
“they just don’t believe science and they don’t believe authority”
Authority # Science.
“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” – Albert Einstein
That was the phrase I picked up on too. Science and ‘authority’ are just plain opposites, yet Fauci equates them.
Having spent a lifetime in science education, it takes a great deal to get students to follow the data, and accept that there may be bugs or a different interpretation of the data. Its also very difficult to shine a light on popularly held beliefs without having students just tune out that part. Fauci is right that most people do not operate within the constraints of science. Take the specialist who is pressuring my husband to take a particular drug: data are weak, but the metaanalysis at present can only say it has a nonsignificant positive effect on cardiac events AND a nonsignificant negative effect on all cause mortality.
Science is not equal to Truth. Science is based on philosophy. There are many instances where demonstrated results have been ignored because they were at odds with the philosophical assumptions of the scientists. The heliocentric model of the Solar system vs. the geocentric model. BTW, Galileo was NOT subject to house arrest because of his model, but because, in print, he mocked the pope-he also mocked the current scientific establishment. (gee doesn’t that sound familiar?)
Wrong-Galileo was charged with heresy for agreeing with the Copernican Theory, he pleaded Guilty for a consideration of passing his sentence in house arrest. Yew, Galileo was a person who challenged the views of “authority” sometimes, but his actual charge was Heresy for Supporting the Copernican Theory.
No U Wrong-Vatican astronomers of the time were warming up to the Copernican model themselves and several would likely have come to Galileo’s defense, if he hadn’t been a completely disagreeable and onerous personality who in addition to astronomy, also published some highly unorthodox religious treatises as well as thinly-disguised smear pieces toward his political and intellectual rivals. *That* was what raised the eyebrows of the Pope more than anything. That Galileo had quite openly mocked him in another publication didn’t exactly help matters either.
It didn’t help that Galileo also was teaching Heliocentrism as fact, when at the time it was merely the theory that best fit the data. It wouldn’t be proven till later, after better measurements were made of planetary motion.
You’re spinning around the issue. Galileo was Charged with Heresy for supporting Copernican Theory. Yes, he did all of the other things, but the charge was Heresy. He was not charged with mocking the Pope or any other issues. He was charged with Heresy for supporting Copernican Theory.
Plea bargaining by Galileo seems to be what transpired. Sort of went up against an earlier incarnation of the deep state.
Yes, AFTER he signed an agreement to back off-which he broke. The scientific establishment of the day was saying that the geocentric was ‘proven fact.’ He also had some very unorthodox religious views. Basically it was a plea bargain. If the church had gone after him for his religious views and if he refused to back down (he was a very stubborn man) they would have had to impose the death penalty. The pope actually liked the man, but he couldn’t let anyone break a pledge that had been made to him. So the points are 1) the ‘proven facts’ were against him-the math to disprove the ‘proven facts’ weren’t developed until years later. 2) Because he was in the minority and was calling nearly everyone who didn’t agree with him a fool he created powerful enemies. 3) He was also denying essential Christian doctrine-while trying to claim he still was a Christian. 4) Since the Pope had kind feelings for him-despite the fact that Gallelio broke his promise and mocked the pope-and didn’t want to try him for his religious beliefs and to placate the scientific establishment, the Pope opted to try him on a charge for which he wasn’t obligated to use the death penalty.
Not everything is as simple as your world view Ron.
Yes, that’s the actual charge at the end of a long and drawn out process.
But the reasons as to why he was charged are as others have detailed.
Treat it like Al Capone’s conviction. Couldn’t do him for the gangster activities, got him on tax fraud.
LOL!
The goal of science should always be truth.
Unfortunately there are many occasions where the goal of “scientists” is not the truth.
Remember the Schneider quote about how scientists have to choose for themselves whether they want to be truthful, or effective.
Dr Fauci is wrong.
Science is not truth. It is a process used to explain and understand the way the universe and everything in it works. To assert that science is truth is scientism, not science.
Fauci styles himself as a high priest in a while lab coat. Yep, scientism at its best.
Reminds me of a Carlin line about doctors – it’s all guesswork in a white coat.
Good comment.
Science is a process, not an outcome.
Monna,
Exactly correct. And that process starts with asking questions. The current experts are not exempt from being questioned either. In fact, according to the late great Dr. Richard Feynman, we must question the experts if we want human knowledge to move forward. And it seems to me, that when the situation is novel, facts are few, and data is of unknown quality, we should consider everybody’s conclusions as mere speculation.
I would love to question them. Strap them down and find every thing they have ever thought, said or done in their entire lives. Then do it again and compare the answers. Then do it again and compare the answers. 4th time through the lies will be over. Oh, and spare me the outrage. They are our enemy, time to treat them as such, along with a whole lot of other human haters.
This seems to be the first resort of “scientists” who don’t have the evidence they need to support their hypothesis. They present dire claims based on unverified models. When people doubt their claim they move to the fallacious Appeal to Authority both directly (“You don’t believe me, the expert”) and indirectly (“You don’t believe the Science [that I give you]”).
This man was wrong about AIDS/HIV becoming a heterosexual pandemic in the US
This man was wrong about H1N1/Swine Flue becoming a pandemic in the US
This man was wrong about every prediction and recommendation regarding the Covid19/Wuhan Virus
So, he must act the wounded hero. Soon he will be awarded the Michael Mann Nobel Prize for sincere arrogance.
According to the above boxed text, Dr. Fauci stated “. . . there are some people who just don’t believe that — and that’s unfortunate because, you know, science is truth.”
In reply, I offer three pertinent observations by others:
“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.” — Richard Feynman
“What is truth?” — Pontius Pilate
“The truth is rarely pure and never simple.” — Oscar Wilde
It’s truth until an other finding is truth / until proven wrong
Interesting you include Pontius Pilate there.
The truth about that guy is his wife had an imperial document from her “uncle” at Capri to execute the man no matter what the truth was. His a**s was covered, as we say today.
The truth in this case is still reverbrating throughout history.
Science is not possible without the pursuit of truth.
Einstein put it best when asked on radio why he would throw out one theory after another. He said they were like diamonds found in a mine, but he was searching for the thoughts of God.
This virus is an existential test – major science is needed to get a handle on it.
bonbon, since you dissed Pontius Pilate for asking a simple question that has bugged great philosophers throughout human history, I will ask you simply: What is your definition of truth?
And please try to avoid including the concept of “faith” in your definition.
Bonbon.
If Einstein was searching for the thoughts of God, those thoughts would be worthless unless he was scientifically able to prove God existed, and that God created it all to be able to explain it.
Einstein should have listened to what he was saying.
Science is an endless pursuit.
What do you mean by ‘scientifically’? The scientific method cannot even prove that Ceaser existed. How do you expect the scientific method to prove or disprove God?
BTW if God doesn’t exist then you must explain an even greater miracle than theists believe. You must explain how the Universe created itself out of nothing.
“BTW if God doesn’t exist then you must explain an even greater miracle than theists believe. You must explain how the Universe created itself out of nothing.”
Something surely came from nothing. Reality itself (with or without a god) came from nothing. Which is a greater miracle? A super-powerful god or mere undifferentiated energy? Or perhaps the end of a prior universe caused ours. Or a pair: ours causes theirs and theirs causes ours. Atheists usually shrug and say “I don’t know.”
History cannot, in general, be proved. Bayes Theorem gives probabilities. By using free will to make plans — visions of the future — and carry them out we can try to affect the future.
Yesterday is but a dream,
Tomorrow is but a vision,
But Today, well lived,
Makes every yesterday a dream of happiness,
And every tomorrow a vision of hope.
— Kalidasa
The easy retort, how many scientists/experts said masks, especially DIY masks were not necessary. Even dumb me had my wife and I wearing DIY masks at the beginning of March. Albeit, at the time I thought COVID-19 was an influenza like virus rather than SARS like.
As well, the readers on this site, are fully aware of the malarkey ‘97%’ scientists espousing CO2 induced climate change.
Surely the name of the virus, rather than the disease it can cause, gave the game away? The virus is SARS CoV-2.
Ps. in the midst of all of this, I have to post this article about how differently the Hong Kong flu was handled.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/why-life-went-on-as-normal-during-the-killer-pandemic-of-1969/
I was a senior in High School during that. From early Oct. (68) through mid May (69) I don’t remember a full classroom because of that Flu. Life went on as usual
In the U.K around 85000 people died of Hong Kong flu started July 1969
Life went on as normal, no panicking or panic buying
Fast forward to 2020 and I am not panicking and am living my life as normal as I can under lockdown conditions
I was a senior in high school that fall. I caught the flu during that summer. My only change in behavior was to wear a jacket during mid-summer because I was running a fever.
SR
The reputation of science as being truthful has taken a right hammering over the last few years. All courtesy of the left wing Green political agenda , peddling its alarmist Meme.
“science” said it was the animal fats.
Hmmm… anti-science, Doctor? How about your “science” delivering:
– Statements from WHO that were not accurate.
– Models which forecast vastly higher infection and death rates than actually occurred, with very little correction and rework when they proved false.
– Telling the public “masks don’t work” then later saying everyone must wear a mask.
That’s just a few cases, Doctor. Maybe it’s not that Americans don’t believe science so much that many of us no longer fully believe you.
Much like a decision on surgery, I look for a second opinion after hearing Dr. Fauci. Even the Russian proverb “doveryai, no proveryai” (trust but verify) doesn’t work because there has to first be trust.
It will take quite some time before the public trusts science. Science has been politicised and pseudo scientists are now paid to come up with information that suits the political agenda. The fact that the word ‘scientist’ has been tagged on to so many other fields, such as ‘political science’ has made the concept of science meaningless. The ‘experts’ come out of the woodwork calling themselves scientists when in reality their field of work is unrelated to what they are putting forward as though they know what they are talking about. This must change if science has any hope of regaining respect in their field. They need to be called out!
I know that there are scientists with integrity, at some point they are going to have to speak out. Sadly the public seem to be largely gullible, but when you get a pseudo scientist saying that people don’t believe ‘the science’ then maybe that’s a starting point for getting some real science out there.
I’m one of the members of the public who sees through the BS and I’m not alone.
I hate to mention this, but…
In the State of Washington, they have annual exams for K-12 students (3rd – 10th grades). 90% of 10th grade students _FAIL_ the Science exam (only 10% pass – just in case :-); thus, this exam isn’t used for anything useful – Unions won’t allow it. So, not only is the problem bought-and-paid-for scientists but ignorant citizens.
You are absolutely correct Bill. Australian education used to rate highly on a global scale. We have slipped down the scale badly in the past decade. The focus is more on leftist ideas now and our students are ignorant. To be accepted by a university to study for a teachers degree you only need a pass of 50%, and even then they will make exceptions and allow a lower mark.
They are deliberately dumbing down education, people are easier to control when they’re ignorant. They are ignorant because they are taught to believe what they are told, they are not taught how to learn. They are taught not to question when they best way to learn is to question everything. To seek knowledge.
I’d have to see the test before I could agree with your conclusion.
I’ve seen way to many “science” tests where the only way to get a good grade was to regurgitate whatever nonsense the teacher was passing out that year.
No Dr, Fauci. What we don’t believe is YOU! A proven and admitted liar is not someone rational people appreciate being lecture on what “truth” is.
“ ….there is a combination of an anti-science bias that people are — for reasons that sometimes are, you know, inconceivable and not understandable — they just don’t believe science and they don’t believe authority,…”
It is hard to believe he can be this clueless about why this might be the case.
Re:
– His own contradictory pronouncements about mask effectivity.
– WHO misinformation & doing the bidding of ChiComms.
– ineptitude of US CDC.
To cite a few reasons.
we’re Americans: of course we have a problem with authority.
this country was founded by people who rebelled against an authority that wanted control over their lives, and referred to them as “subjects”. sounds like you’d like to have the power over us, so of course we’re rejecting your paternalistic attitude.
we also have a problem with liars.
deal with it, snowflake.
He has been very inconsistent in his messaging to say the least.
He will say wear a mask, but has no double blind clinical trails for his pontificating.
He will say HQC is an unproven drug and may not be safe.
FYI, I know other physicians and scientists that disagree with him as well. He is just othet micro managing egotistical control freak.
I have other reasons to be suspicious of Fauci but I will keep those to myself.
The “anti science” narrative was perpetrated by the Left/Marxist/Liberals to answer for anything that questions their ideology. That and “conspiracy theory” are used extensively when they can’t come up with real answers to real questions.
Yes well…
I’m no antivaxxer .. but the idea that SCIENCE is TRUTH and therefore unDENYable..is horse pucky.
I’m old enough to have experienced the Polio epidemics of the early 1950s when my mother told the 6 year old me that we couldn’t go to the outdoor swimming pools that summer because of polio. I also remember one of my first grade classmates with a cane and leg braces due to having been a victim of polio. There was finally a vaccine created from ‘dead’ polio virus and I recall that it was administered 3 times in ascending doses and it worked. The epidemic was stopped.
I recall years later when the ‘SCIENCE approved’ live vaccine was given to us as a booster and how I felt that somehow seemed a bit risky but I ate sugar cube and was told that SCIENCE said it is perfectly safe ( and so much easier to administer).
The recurrence of polio in live vaccine recipients much later in life was then unknown to the SCIENCE. These things can happen despite the best available SCIENCE. Now I think that antivaxxers are probably deluded by poor information, but it is not crazy to recognize that vaccination is not a risk free proposition. It’s why we normally take so much time testing new ones. Fauci may well be a smart and knowledgeable guy but there is sometimes an attitude with such people. He’s got the attitude bad.
I also survived a polio epidemic, so far worse than this one. Among others, two in my senior class didn’t. While the vaccine was great, as you noted the live one produced minor temporary type paralysis much later in life, apparently not well known, happened in my family. Still some around with life long paralysis muscle damage.
Read that Fauci said science was “truth.” When he earlier said that we might not be able to ever shake hands again, I knew that this didn’t take and maybe he never believed it, as I used to teach pre-meds, and made sure that they understood that their profession was responsible for lots of deaths.
I had one in a seminar who did a great paper, but off the subject. He came in furious, as it ruined his straight A’s. Asked him if he would treat a different organ than the one diseased, or something like that, because he knew the other one better. Quit complaining, I hope.
Brings back to me memories of collecting for The March of Dimes to raise money for combating Polio.
When somebody says “Trust me.”, that’s when you increase your skepticism.
Wasn’t it Kaa the python, in the original animated Jungle Book? He sang “Trusssst in me – jusssst in me…”.
We aren’t bias against science. We’re biased against being expected to believe anything someone says just because they claim to be a scientist, even when what they’re spouting off is wild ass guesses, not falsifiable, not reproducible, based on flawed hand-tuned computer models instead of real experimentation, etc. We’re biased against pseudo-science.
“you know, science is truth”
Now we know for sure he’s liar.
Andrew
Unfortunately for science and scientists ,it is being corrupted by the likes of the IPCC ,then we have the scandal of climate gate ,the hockey stick, the 97% consensus,
Climate science covers many disciplines in the science world, we have a world funded organization called the IPCC that presents science , the mandate of the IPCC is to show global warming not to show the science of climate disciplines = results, I have seen many a scientist on this forum argue against the IPCC reports, I have yet to see authors of the IPCC reports defend their results or say the results are presented wrong.
I have seen the media state “the science is settled” which contradicts science and it’s ever ongoing research,
I have seen Michael mann defend the hockey stick when clearly it’s made up nonsense a minipulating exercise of past data.
Science is strictly not based on models alone ,observerd data for 40 years of global climate compaired to the model prediction forecasts is some what lacking ,
Science from a climate point of view is bought and paid for by a ring of vicious governments paying for a predetermined outcome. Climate science is presented by the IPCC . The outcome of the ring.
Climate scientists are stuck between a rock and a hard place, some believe in the climate lie,no doubt ,some play along because there under pressure threats, of losing there funding ,jobs or worse.
It would seem even a expose of some aspects of climate science by Michael Moore has been suppressed and attacked.
The only way science is going to gain any credibility back,is by the scientists themselves coming clean about thier data being falsified and minipulated, the MSM taken to task and completely overhauled for perpetuating the lie of global warming , science needs to see the institutions corrupting the science disbanded and brought to account, and governments who use the excuse of “We are only acting on the science” need to be disbanded and shown to the public how they funded the lie in the first place, and who is influencing them.
Above sets out the biggest fraud perpetrated against mankind in the whole of mankind’s history.
B D Clark,
Please attempt to distinguish between they, they are, their and there. It is rough reading your excellent writing when my brain has to re-read sentences when the wrong word is used.
Sorry bit dyslexic on some words.
Sorry,bit dyslexic on some words.
I agree B d, actual scientists need to be speaking out and refuting the lies. I would think it’s the only way there will ever be change. Otherwise pseudo science will become the norm, and any field will have the word ‘science’ tagged on making anyone the expert.
Thank you Megs,
The only thing I will add is it needs to be a lot of scientists, not one ot two,we know what happens when only one or two speak out, there needs to be a concerted effort by the climate scientists to speak out.
There is strength in numbers and they can not be ignored.
Americans should not believe in retracted science, pal review science, agenda science, or politician driven science using stunts like construction lifts on stage. The problem comes down to the lag times and efficiency in that process of sorting.
There is but one truth – God (of the Bible), who is pure truth, love, life, and light.
Romans 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
That sure went to the heart of the matter, NOT!
Therein lies the cause of Americans’ stupidity. God-bothering.
Your remarks denigrating those who believe in God indicates your religion is scientism where science=truth. Science says that the universe created itself out of nothing therefore it created itself out of nothing.
I’ve always found it fascinating how so many atheists feel the need to attack believers at any opportunity.
It’s almost as if they have no faith in their religion of choice.
No religion requires more faith in God than Atheism. Without God atheists have nothing, its really rather sad, their belief in God makes them angry so they lash out at everyone else.
+10
So believing in God makes one stupid?
Really? Got some evidence to back up your claim, or do you just believe that it must be true?
“Trust me, I’m a doctor”
Hold on their Doctor. Aren’t you the one who has admitted lying when you down played masks effectiveness so people wouldn’t buy them under the idea that if everyone started buying masks there wouldn’t be enough for medical people?
Yes, that was YOU!
Science demands proof not belief. If you have to believe then it is not science
If people no longer believe what is promoted as science, I think “Climate Science” bears the brunt of the blame.
By continually pushing a narrative that is dubious at best and demonstrably false in many cases, people get to the point that’s they no longer believe a word they hear. Calling people who question their findings insulting names just reinforces the scepticism.
Not picking up obvious mistakes in the peer review system further erodes confidence.
The original purpose of the peer review system was not to assert that the article being reviewed was in fact correct, but rather to remove obvious errors before the article was published.
Many peer reviewed articles are subsequentially found to have errors and are revised.
The critical problem with Climate Science peer reviewed articles is that even when they are found to have errors, these errors are not revised. Instead the people who find the errors are subject to ad-hominem attacks and called disparaging names.
Alas, climastrology is NOT the problem. Rather, this was the snitch who REVEALED that something is very wrong in science. A couple years ago, an analysis revealed that fewer than half of all “peer reviewed” published “science” was reproducible. This is the “Reproducibility Crisis” in science. It is in every field.
“Pal review” is part of the problem. I worked with a real scientist in a non-political field who had trouble getting funding and trouble getting published because his findings were different than those of the leading name in the field. If you have to have the “right” pals, that just isn’t science any more.
We at WUWT and climate skepticism have had a bit more time to think about this and work on solutions. Those of us in every field and all around the world who love Truth and the search for it need to be, and are, working together to restore the beautiful endeavor that many of us had once known.
I’m afraid that this is true.
It is much too common in too many fields. In fields which are complex, broad and known to quick change this is less of an issue, as long as the majority accepts that things change all the time, and as long as there is enough to be discovered.
But many (all the?) other fields seem to have the same issue: you must toe the party line (the opinion of a few leading people, who published their Magnus Opus decades ago) or risk your career. Forget about being able to publish. Even when you can prove one of the old guard got it wrong, or especially then …
Yes, does he mean science like hypothesis testing, experimentation and observation or does he mean something else?
I’d like to hear what he says about x and y chromosomes and gender.
Oh, I think Bill Nye the B.Eng Guy has already answered that for us. A 97% consensus of one. “Trust me, I’m a celebrity!”
Seems Dr Fauci is compelled to destroy what little credibility he might have left.
He has become famous for spouting self serving contradictory nonsense,just got through bragging about lying to the public with respect to masks,for the good of the system of course.
Now he makes this statement?
Genius,Super Genius..Willie E Fauci.
Somebody’s feelings got hurt. A career scientist who struggles with feelings of rejection is perhaps not the right person to occupy a position of authority.
I am a (retired) programmer of, among other things epidemiological models. I wrote my own. If the pre-symptomatic spread was as they said, then, indeed, there would be a spike big enough to overwhelm hospitals. Quarantine of symptomatic cases would not be enough to stop the spread. Given the early data my models showed 2,000,000 deaths in the US of 330,000,000 citizens. 2/330 = 0.6%. To avoid excess deaths caused by hospital overcrowding physical distancing and masks were suggested. This was to flatten the curve seen in the uncontrolled case to avoid hospital overcrowding.
It is not uncontrolled. We are finding therapies. It is behaving differently to the assumptions/data in the initial model.
Clinical experience is the heart of medicine. Sharing what works here with others. Finding out what doesn’t work elsewhere.
Fauci is nowhere near a clinic treating COVID19. HCQ, for example, is already FDA approved so it can be prescribed for anything including hangnail if the physician thinks it may work. It is generally safe. It doesn’t need a clinical trial to “prove” safety since that was already done. Years of clinical experience have revealed any contraindications. It doesn’t need a clinical trial to “prove” efficacy. That is only required for a new snake oil.
The Clinic is where the rubber meets the road. . So: Can’t hurt (Hippocrates is happy), might help.
Calling lies science doesn’t make it so.
People think the greenhouse effect is science, but it just isn’t so.
http://phzoe.com/2020/03/04/dumbest-math-theory-ever/
because, you know, science is truth,” Fauci continued,
That is a statement of a charlatan, not a scientist.
Science is the SEARCH for Nature’s laws and behaviors.
Science is the continued TESTING of those suspected laws.
What is “scientific fact” today may be refined tomorrow. That is not TRUTH.
When someone says “science is truth”, there are two possible premises to it: (1) the body of science is constantly approaching “greater truth” by objective means free of personal, political, social bias, or (2) whatever “science” is is “truth”, and if “science” says something counterintuitive, damn your intuition about its counterintuitive because science is truth.
Premise 1 is what science ought to be and, therefore, an absolute statement like “science is truth” contradiction under such a premise because there is no absolute end that science has arrived at– science has not reached the stage of “The Absolute Truth About Everything and All Further Pursuits are No Longer Necessary”.
Unfortunately, we science appears to be much closer to premise 2.
It is (or should be) the dispassionate search for the least wrong, within the sphere of its applicability.
Science is not truth. Science is the search for truth.
He was half right. People don’t believe authority. His mistake was assuming that those in authority are always right.
“science is truth” unfortunately those with an agenda have made that a lie, to them science is a tool to get the results they want not what they are and you have to work out things from there.
James Bull
Fauci thinks science is Bayesian statistics
M.I.T. Professor Richard Lindzen: belief within climate science that CO2 essentially controls global temperature is recent, wierd and probably wrong:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1140/epjp/s13360-020-00471-z
If he had the truth of science(tm), then why did he lie about masks?
I think he should have stopped at anti-vaxers and not swung the door wide open.
“Americans ‘Don’t Believe Science” >> personal attack
“and They Don’t Believe Authority’” >> appeal to authority
Got any real arguments to present, Mr Fauci?
This dinosaur should’ve been put out to pasture years ago. He has been at NIH for *Fifty Years*. Now here is the weird thing about Fauci: despite his ugly mug on TV every day, he is *not* the Director of the National Institutes of Health. That would be his boss Francis Collins, another NIH dinosaur, who has been a no-show for the past six months, but no one seems to notice. What’s up with that?
Here is another weird thing about Fauci: he receives royalties on various patents assigned to him and NIH. He claims that “government regulations” (written by his agency?) force him to have his name on those patents, but that he donates the money to “charities”.
…Francis Collins…has been a no-show for the past six months…What’s up with that?
Collins is smarter than the average bear. : >)
Technocrats and bureaucrats using “science” to bludgeon democracy.
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan:
“I’m a government scientist. I’m here to tell you the truth”.
Does that inspire confidence?
Americans don’t believe science? Good!! Science is about doubt, religion is about faith. Remember the Royal Society’s motto, Nullius in Verba or take no ones word for it.
The CDC should be more concerned with its screw ups. There are good reasons people have doubts
Well there we go, the pseudo scientist just showed that he doesn’t understand the scientific progress and might explain why he has made some wacky and laughable statements, i.e. stopping travel between the virus outbreak origin area and the USA would make it worse. He needs to be replaced.
“And certainly he made it so” (Winston Churchill)
The statement:
“American people… don’t believe science and they don’t believe authority,”
is not compatible with science, rather it’s compatible with political science.
Vaccines are not magical elixirs without side-affects and with perfect performance. They are part of a risk management protocol with limited, specific purpose. Be honest with people. That said, Americans don’t maintain faith nor prostrate themselves before mortal gods and goddesses. Lose your Pro-Choice religion. Science is a philosophy and practice, of not plausible (a weak constraint), but of observation and utility in a limited frame of reference.
n.n: Yes, vaccines performance varies for many reasons, and ranges from as good as a placebo so 50% better than doing nothing, if you consider that the side effects don’t matter… and the side effects matter!
Meanwhile I have heard that using HCQ and Zn CORRECTLY, has a 90% chance of helping the WuFlu not kill people.
So I do not understand the perverse arguments by the LEFT against something that could be the most effective treatment for dangerous RNA viruses the world has ever seen.
an unsupported “opinion” from a “scientist” is not science … most of what Dr. Faucci spouts is unsupported opinion … that’s what we don’t believe …
There was never any “science” (i.e. real world studies or experiments) around :
1) Lockdowns
2) positive effects of masks
3) closing of schools
4) asymptomatic transmission
5) the models
I agree, Fauci has laughably covered all of his bases, by being pro and con regarding all of his assertions. He used a lot of words, most of which cancel themselves… no pun intended [*cancel culture]
In Fauci’s defense I can guarantee you that 90% of the population doesn’t understand science and has no innate ability to interpret scientific results. They don’t understand the different philosophies of science, they don’t understand the methodology and tools used in science, and therefore they really have no basis for coming to independent conclusions.
I.e. “don’t question the ‘experts’ ” Down that road leads tyanny.
Ari,
” 90% of the population doesn’t understand science and has no innate ability to interpret scientific results. ”
” therefore they really have no basis for coming to independent conclusions.”
How did you arrive at that statistic? Supposedly, half of the population has an IQ at or above 100. How high does the IQ have to be to be able to arrive at their own independent conclusions?
I think the American population is smarter than most people claim… So that 90% number is not well defined whatsoever. That is because much of what is labeled as science is not science at all, it’s political interpretations.
When someone says, 97% of scientists agree… it’s highly likely that person making the statement does not know what the scientists they speak of agree with. Nor do they know how that number was derived.
I think some people who may not be science literate can still smell a rat, and have strong judgement.
I can guarantee you that 90% of the population doesn’t understand science and has no innate ability to interpret scientific results.”
A herder at the end of the stone age had a innate ability to understand science, he did not understand the word science but he practiced a branch of science called mathematics, he also understood commerce which is also a branch of science, even though mathematics, commerce are not terms he would of understood. He practiced his science through trade and mathematics,
People do not need to understand the intricacies of climate science to know there being conned, a hysterical media pushing a more and more ridiculous agenda , a hysterical sales pitch is a sign of desperation, a basic knowledge of the past tells people the climate is not going in a one direction it is cyclical, not linear, even though they may not use the terms cyclical, linear or even understand the terms.
People know when the term “science is settled “is used that is wrong they know this because through thier life times the science changes ,EG nutrion, medicine, space exploration, ect ect.
Every one has a right to independent thought and conclusions no one needs a basis for permission to Express thier views ,be they right or wrong in the eyes and ears of the receiver. I see no reasoned debate from the climate agenda people ,they refuse to engage in any public debate from a opposing view,that’s why we have terms “the science is settled” a refusal to debate be it in the media or a climate conference ,that is called running scared, being dictated too, by increasingly scaremongering hysterical media.
Most people recognise what’s going on they know something is not adding up,they may not be able to Express themselves like members of WUWT ,they may not have time to research thier innate feelings, which is why the media try to stifle debate,which is why more and more proxy data and current data is disappearing ,erasing the record!
Anthony Fauci should watch a few Richard Feynman presentations on science – and than go look in a mirror.
Richard said: “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.
John: Dr. Fauci, aka – The Great Tergiversator, has outed himself, he is not a scientist, but a politician.
Humans are cursed with overwhelming confirmation bias. Very few folks can recognize it in themselves and a tiny fraction can overcome it. It is up to others to poke holes in your theory/argument.
In many cases, I have been told the following: “Well there are two versions of the truth”, and very recently, a purist said there are “three sides of the truth”… that was after the liberal read the house intel’ transcripts and learned that under oath, that there was no evidence, but that on TV they said otherwise.
So, how do you deal with that nonsense? Seriously tell me!
There is only one truth. Humans lie, twist, obfuscate, distort, misdirect, and outright flee from the truth. With sufficiently harsh interrogation you will get the truth. It is all in your method.
Yes, there are no versions of the truth… well said in Lost World… Jurassic Park. I could not believe how unwilling the person was to just see reality. It was very painful for him and as such he sent me rapid fire links to opinion pieces from WaPo, NY Times and CNN that disagreed with me.
Some times people have to be forced to accept reality. That ain’t pretty, it is necessary.
OK: 2hotel9: I agree. Your next job is to get Simon to admit as much. Well, not to change his opinion, but to get him to agree on what is known to be true. An impossible challenge.
Getting ones eyes opened can be a painful operation.
When they have been in “command” positions inside government it certainly is.
Anyone who doesn’t agree with whatever I happened to say last is anti science! Sounds familiar.
I wonder if Fauci believes the “97%” of scientists on climate change ?
I suspect he does.
– JPP
It depends on how “climate change” is defined.
The real question is does he believe in post-normal science? Does Fauci believe a claimed 97% consensus equates to proof?
Well, Faucci is right about scientific ignore being ingrained in Americans – – That includes those who believe in “science” and the “deniers,”* too.
And Fauci is very wrong on equating “respect for authority”** being part of science.
*Apologies for using that word.
**Real meaning is “Respect for leftist authoritarians.”
It’s because science is frequently wrong. Dead wrong frequently in the case of biomedical science.
The science said stomach ulcers were caused by stress and too much acid production…until the science said something completely different.
Science said cervical cancer in women was simply random mutations on a genetic background… until science said something different.
Science said COX-2 inhibitors were safe in the general public, until they weren’t and were removed from the market (except for 1 which carries strong warnings for Drs and patients in prescibing it).
And don’t dig into 60 years of dietary science unless you want to see some very spectacular “science dumpster fires.”
I thought “question authority” was a good thing, whether that authority be political or scientific. Perhaps the “authorities” running the lockdown don’t like uncomfortable questions. To paraphrase Shakespeare, “The doctor doth protest too much, methinks.”
Progressives believe in questioning authority, only up to the point where they become the auntorities.
“Science” is the systematic search for the truth. I believe in science, I don’t believe in Dr. Anthony Fauci.
“when people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together.”
from Isaac Asimov “The relativity of wrong”
What he wrote actually makes no sense. Think about it.
I am hopeful that he is right, that people don’t “believe” science or authority. Science is not a religion and authority is no guarantee of truth. To be misled by belief or authority is a road to disaster. Science is simply a process of investigation and discovery designed to bring us closer to an understanding of truth. Today “science” is used as a label like “green”, “sustainable”, “social justice”, “organic” and many others that is meant to imply some vague virtue but which is a guarantee of nothing. And today authority is an excuse to tell people how to live without having to provide any rational justification.
Climate scientists ‘failed’ when they promulgated the position that: ‘ the science was settled’. From that day forward they have become less and less credible. They did this to themselves.
It is very simple. It is not about ‘science’. It is about the money. That is evil and stupid.
It is fact that Fauci’s “science” is filtered. The US covid deaths simulation assumed a Vitamin D deficient US population which is pathetic.
‘Authorities’ could have reduce the US covid death rate by more than a factor of 10 by correcting the US population’s Vitamin D deficiency.
The problem is the correcting the US population’s Vitamin D deficiency option, would also have permanently reduced the US health care costs by more than 50%.
82% of the US black population, 69% of the US Hispanic population, and 42% of the US general population are Vitamin D deficient.
And it has been shown (hard simple evidence, blood samples and a simple test to determine serum 25(OH)D3) that regardless of sex or age Vitamin D deficient people are 19 times more likely to die from covid and/or to have serious covid symptoms.
https://tahomaclinic.com/Private/Articles4/WellMan/Forrest%202011%20-%20Prevalence%20and%20correlates%20of%20vitamin%20D%20deficiency%20in%20US%20adults.pdf
Prevalence and correlates of vitamin D deficiency in US adults
Patterns of COVID-19 Mortality and Vitamin D: An Indonesian Study
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561
Vitamin D Insufficient Patients 12.55 times more likely to die
Vitamin D Deficient Patients 19.12 times more likely to die
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52492662
Coronavirus: Black African deaths three times higher than white Britons – study
Severe Vitamin D deficient is below 20 ng/ml. Supplements of 4000 UI/day would raise most people to above 40 ng/ml which is the level that has been shown to shrink prostate cancer tumors and stop inflammation which how the prostate cancer forms blood vessels and reduce breast cancer incidence by more than 70%. It has also been shown to reduce the incidence of type 2 diabetes by more than 50%, reduce the incidence of multiple sclerosis by more 60%, significant reduction in depression, and so on. All good stuff which makes sense as Vitamin D is a proto hormone. It turns genes on and off to make things happen in our body.
Great post! I just ran a blood serum test. My 25(OH)D was 62 ng/ml. Interestingly, my vit K was off the chart at >2,500. But my blood is not clotty, I take 2.5gms of fish oil every morning. Not sure where I am getting all that vit K from. I do take two types of juiced powders also in my morning cocktail.
You did not get to 60 ng/ml taking 2 grams of fish oil.
Fish oil only has about 1000 IU of Vitamin D per tablespoon and a tablespoon has about 14 grams in it.
A person in the forum is taking Vitamin D supplements of 4000 UI/day and his 25(OH)D3 serum level (tested after supplements) was only 40 ng/ml. (He must be a big man.)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4333533/
Based on the results of international studies, the concentration of Vitamin D3 and its derivatives in fish liver oil falls within the range of 40-200 IU/ml.[11]
Moreover, in “Krause’s Food and the Nutrition Care Process,” one of the most used textbook by nutritionist, the concentration of Vitamin D3 in fish liver oil is reported as 1060 IU per tablespoon that is equal to 70.6 IU/ml.
You’re right I was being hasty and went to the vit K think.
I take 3 times a day 2000IU, and have a convertible and get sun without using sun screen when I can. I live in NCal.
I like seeing your posts and you may recall I have commented on yours several times on the HCQ and ionophore properties of EGCA and quercetin, which I also take.
William Astley: PS: I am pretty happy with this level of D in my blood. I have not measure in several years, but have been dosing with D for years, and about 6 months ago, upped from 2000 to 5000IU I bumped to 6000IU as well as other Ca Mg Zn with addition 400IU 3 X day. The Zn added 12mg a day with that, but I had not considered the prostate formula I take 3 x a day which has 15mg in each so an additional 45mg, which I feel is too much, so I am down to 2 x day for 30mg and 1 to 2 of the Ca Mg Zn.
My blood pH was 7.5, which I attribute to taking two juiced veggie / fruit powders and additional CA/Mg.
Your thoughts?
if your juiced powders are green?
thats your source
Yep. I did not know there was SOOO much K in greens. Guess I am getting plenty. Anyway I do not have a blood clotting issue, esp with the fish oil. So I could not find an upper limit where there are problems with K in the blood.
Don’t forget that there are two flavors of K — K1 and K2. K1 is for clotting, K2 interacts with calcium and D to help ensure it is utilized properly (bones/teeth) and not deposited on arterial walls. All the stuff you might have read about be sure to get enough K if you are taking a lot of D is talking about K2, not K1.
The K test I paid for did not differentiate as to which K, 1 or 2. Just that I had a lot more than the max range. 0-1,500. My number was >2,500.
Great Post. What about Vitamin C? Any good info? An anecdotal says you can contain a COVID-19 infection with about 6 grams (6,000 mg) if you know when to take it (assuming no other complications such as a severe Vitamin D shortage). [Hint: COVID-19 induces an excessive inflammatory response. Vitamin C relieves inflammation. Your body absorbs and uses Vitamin C immediately and excretes any excess. China seems to have figured this out now. (Fauci-scientists won’t talk about Vitamins.)]
Same result for the second strain of COVID-19 that almost no one is talking about. Yes, you can get COVID-19 twice, but its a different strain with some different symptoms. I’ve often wondered if the “second” strain is mitigated by antibodies from the more common (more virulent) strain that most people get first, and that if you are unlucky enough to get the “second” strain first without the antibiotic mitigation from the first strain, it may kill you or at least put you on a ventilator.
Dear Dr Fauci;
Can you please show me where in the scientific method it calls for “belief”?
No you can’t because it’s not in there.
Can you show me where it says “consensus of experts was reached” or “the majority of scientists say so”?
No you can’t because it’s not in there.
So what is the scientific method based on? Predictions, predictions and more predictions. Here is a refresher for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7YcimsISUk
Now Dr Fauci can you please tell us what predictions you and your “authority” figures in science got right on this issue?
I’m glad I could help you out there fella now STFU and PFO.
Fauci Doesn’t know what science is. It is not expert opinion.
Let me correct that headline:
Americans don’t believe Fauci.
Nor any other government promoted expert.
Good grief, how often can you change positions 180 degrees, get it wrong, exaggerate. We have the same problem in Canada with a “Dr.” (once) Tam.
Dr. Fauci didn’t sound like a scientist to me!
And from where does he gain his authority? I’ve never seen his name on a ballot!
The arrogance of this guy is nauseating. Americans DO believe in science….but he hasn’t been spouting “science”.
“They just don’t believe science and they don’t believe authority”. Those are two completely different things. Not surprised that Herr Fauci doesn’t know that.
Fauci, your appeals to your authority are not science. You are the perfect example of Sowell’s “Annointed”. Be gone! You are the deplorable one. Go kiss the Hildabeast’s feet.
Maybe if I was shown some real science and not the money hungry, politically motivated garbage that is passed off as science today, I might start believing in it again.
I dont believe “political” scientists, and computer models.
“Fauci also said people should believe him and trust him, because of his long track record” of being completely wrong and lying about Covid-19 …. Just to correct the record. Science is not a religion and people do not need to believe in it.
Here in Germany we have a new hotspot with about 700 new infections one ofthe last days, the last hotspots too, in an industrial slaughter house . Now the are closing again schools etc.
But R0 isn’t concerned, is proclaimed. Why ?
For staying permanently below 1.0, the changed the way to define the R0 value.
The use now average last 8 days new infected / average the last 8 days before the first ones, so they tell to be at 0.86 or so.
The earlier way was to calculate only with 4 days, and than you get, surprise, surprise, a value of today 2.09, before 2.14 and one day earlier 2.29
They are so good, aren’t they ? 😀
I call that self-deception.
That case and a few others in Germany, mirror exactly the US meatpacker hotspots, for exactly the same reason – pure slave labor conditions, people packed in accommodation after shift. Germany will now try labor law. But the real cause is the cartel of only a few giant meat-packers making profits, paying farmers less than parity.
Interesting how monetarist economics kills.
And instead of that truth, they run after a Ribosome with Sherlock’s microscope looking for Moriarty.
No wonder they cannot figure an R0.
The fact that Fauci says science rather than the scientific method makes it abundantly clear he doesn’t understand the scientific method. Of course we already knew this since he quoted computer models (ie, part of the establish a hypothesis step if the scientific method) as if they were the measurements step of the scientific method.
I don’t- believe in Klimate sience, or models of any sort (Klimate, Pandemic or other) and the biased liars who always seem to be touting them for the benefit of UN Agenda 21.
The problem surely is that there rarely is THE science, there’s a range of scientific opinions on many subjects, including epidemiology (and climate, obviously), and just “trusting the science” give no guidance as to WHICH expert to prefer. The Swedes for instance, have a law that only scientists are allowed to make health related decisions – the result has been that their trusted scientist has recommended a completely different course from what Fauci would. So “trusting the science” has led to diametrically opposite responses in each case.
Well good scientists often agree to disagree. So they still could have used science and down the opposite!
“One of the problems we face in the United States is that unfortunately, there is a combination of an anti-science bias that people are — for reasons that sometimes are, you know, inconceivable and not understandable — they just don’t believe science and they don’t believe authority”
We weren’t allowed to question drug companies when they paid scientists to tell us thalidomide was safe for pregnant women.
>>>Because, they said, the science was incontrovertible.
We weren’t allowed to question oil companies when they paid scientists to tell us that cars wouldn’t run on unleaded fuel.
>>> Because, they said, you couldn’t argue with science.
We weren’t allowed to question the Nazis when they paid scientists to tell us that Jews, gays, and gypsies were subhuman.
>>> Because, they said, the science was beyond question.
We weren’t allowed to question sugar manufacturers when they paid Harvard scientists to tell us sugar was good for us.
>>> Because, they said, the science was unassailable.
We weren’t allowed to question our government when they paid scientists to tell us agent orange was not a health risk for veterans.
>>> Because, they said, the science was settled.
Why can’t we question the government when they pay scientists to tell us the world will end if we don’t wear a mask and stop global warming.
For thousands of years ordinary people have been questioning scientists, their governments, and religious institutions.
Asking questions of the powerful should never be a crime nor a reason for ridicule.
Where do you find all these straw men? Sources?
Follow the science is asking people to believe everything they’re told whether their is evidence or not. It’s suggesting we are too stupid to understand the science and shouldn’t question anything. All theories which suggest predictive outcomes are based on assumptions.Those assumptions are influenced by the biases that are held by the person making them and are designed to provide the outcome that one wants are expects. It is always easy to identify from the assumptions whether a theory makes sense. Confirmation bias makes people wary of scientific conclusions especially where the scientist gains some personal benefit ( either financial or political)
I would be interested the hear Fauci explain the differences between practicing medicine on a heard of cattle vs a group of humans. I’m sure he’s well meaning, but it seems he’s forgotten that his role is to represent and educate. America isn’t his Zoo, and we aren’t mindless beasts.
No, we don’t, because you keep lying.
Fauci ought to read the climate gate emails and then go over to retractionwatch. In addition, scientists are human and just as prone to human shortcomings as us non-scientists, and many, if not most of them, are leftists.
I question science when I can sense that it’s science that can be used for policy makers to enact some more left-wing tentacle laws on us.
I just want to say there are some really excellent posts on here tonight.
Fauci: Americans “Don’t Believe Science”.
No no no. Americans do believe in science. They just do not believe Fauci who has contradicted himself too many times.
The best thing Trump can do is kick this little pip squeak out of White House press conferences.
Carefully, or we will have impeachment 2.0…
There is no “2.0”, it never stopped. Continuation, its how leftist keep all their anti-American crap going.
The Atlanticist journal openly praises the use of a color revolution against Trump, exactly on the lines of the Ukraine Maidan. They even quote approvingly the color ideologue Gene Sharp.
So Maidan has come home to roost.
Just read an article quoting one of Black Lies Matter founders stating their only goal is removing Trump. So much for all that racial equality they keep screeching about.
Gene Sharp in action. There is systemic racism, but blame it all on the figure to be removed. Find other problems, such as right now the lockdown, unemployment, and as Russian Ambassador pointed out there were 40 million unemployed before COVID. The virus exposed the massive economic problem Trump was actually elected to deal with.
It could be the virus will upturn the color revolution, something Gene Sharp missed.
Impeachment was not about “Ukraine”. It was only Trump-Russia rebranded. Ukraine was just a new label because the consumer got bored with the “muh Russia” thing.
So impeachment was already Mueller 2.0, which was just the continuity of the Flynn thing, which was essentially the craziest interpretation of the Logan act… plus the “dossier” plus Jesus doing arm-wrestling with Satan plus the idea that “Russia, please recover the State secretary acid washed emails” means “Russia, please hack the DNC servers and please phish Podesta”.
2Hotel9 and niceguy: You’re both right. I was being hasty. That’s why I love this site. It’s amazing how uninformed the Left is on all of this.
I literally just posted quotes from BLM after someone whom I know never visited their website, and stated 100% support for them. The response to the following quotes form BLM was that I was twisting their words into my own making and then he gave me a link to Hitler on Wiki.: I did not call him a moron, but he is.
Quotes from BLM website
“We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and villages. ”
“We call for a national defunding of police.”
“White Supremacy is threatening our existence.”
Dr. Fauci confuses models used in science with science itself; ie, the stepwise inquiry into nature. Dr. Fauci uses models to predict the future, the future of the coronavirus pandemic. As in all models, all his and everyone else’s models are wrong. Models are a construct of human imagination with modelers incorporating their views and biases so it is not surprising, that models get predictions of the future wrong. All sorts of nostrums and chants are invoked to give credence to a forecaster’s forecast, however, the forecast isn’t any more “real” than a suggestion from a bloke off the street.
Just because the forecaster is dressed up and all fancy with titles and such doesn’t make the forecast any more believable. As a matter of fact, experts are less correct than the man off the street in predicting future events. That’s a fact.
Experts are always good to listen to but when it comes to your wallet, probably you are the best person to decide what to do with your money and how you conduct your life.
Just saying.
The liberals are dismissing anything that Trump says cause it’s Trump.
The conservatives are dismissing anything that Fauci says cause it’s Fauci.
Both follow the fallacy of argumentum ad personam.
That is all but critical thinking. Face it.
You keep using that word, “science”. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Americans don’t believe pseudoscience, and Americans don’t believe false authority.
Fauci is too full of himself.
I’m sure that none of this will ever get to Fauci, and if it did, wouldn’t sink in. But, suggestions for him:
Never lie using science as a club. It’s too easy to catch you up.
If new information causes you to update or change your position, find a simple method to document the reasons/data. Even we conservative “scientists” have a low tolerance for long-winded explanations. Referring to one’s homepage is not a bad way…
When you see total balderdash, like a EUA that only allows hydroxychloriquine in a clinical/hospital setting (too late!) and ignores the proven efficacy of zinc addition and zpac, administered early, POINT IT OUT. There are some many ways you could have aided the cause of science, but you tried to sound like an Authority, not a problem solver.
A coherent explanation of actual transmission data would be nice.
The Fauci/CDC propaganda about HCQ is interesting since the data doesn’t support it. The same is the case for CAGW propaganda – the empirical data doesn’t support that either.
The climateers may just find that the bat crud crisis will accidentally bury their climate non-crisis.
I want a poll on Americans: