Parks without Parking, Beaches without Beachcombers

Reposted from The Cliff Mass Weather Blog

Original title: Seattle Parks without Parking, Washington Beaches without Beachcombers

Tuesday, May 12, 2020

If you want to drive to a major Seattle park, you will not be able to park there.

And if you are looking forward to a walk on a Washington State ocean beach, forget it.  The beaches are off limits.

And at many parks you will be hectored and bullied in way that is contradictory to the values of a free society.


Because some public officials believe, with virtually no evidence or basis in science, that these restrictions on outdoor areas are promoting public safety.   These politicians and bureaucrats may mean well, but, in reality, they are harming many of those they wish to assist.  They are also working against the most progressive values of our community, taking actions that are inconsistent with the essential principles of our democracy.

There is minimal risk of coronavirus spread outdoors.  That is science.

This is not speculation or wishful thinking but based on the scientific literature, observational evidence, and fact-based logic. I reviewed some of the literature in my April 18th blog post and there has been more recent research during the past few months. For example, recent lab studies carried out by the U.S. Army’s high-level biosecurity laboratory at Fort Detrick, Md. (see below) found that the virus survived for only 2 minutes on a surface and as an aerosol droplet for only 90 seconds during the summer.  And noted in my earlier blog, there is no documented example of COVID transmission in the outside air and there are many reasons for this, including the effects of solar ultraviolet radiation, the higher relative humidity, and the huge potential for dispersion (and thus low concentrations) in the vast quantity of outside air, enhanced by outdoor wind.

Lifetime of COVID-19 based on the latest research by the U.S. Army’s high-level biosecurity laboratory at Fort Detrick, Md
Furthermore, exposure to the sun  results in the production of Vitamin-D, which increasing number of studies have shown enhances our immune system in its battle to fight off the virus. Outdoor exercise also strengthens the immune system and there are substantial psychological benefits to visiting parks and natural areas, which also enhances our ability to fight off disease.  And parks provide huge areas for social distancing.
So, if elected officials and government agencies are concerned about the impact of coronavirus on the population, they should make it a priority to ensure that citizens have easy access to outdoor areas.  Unfortunately, the opposite has been the case.
Seattle Parks and Parking
Take the Seattle’s Parks and Recreation Department.   During Easter weekend, they closed all the big Seattle parks, forcing residents into smaller, crowded neighborhood parks.  And over the past months Seattle has closed the parking lots of the big parks, including Magnuson, Green Lake, Discovery, Lincoln, and Seward.
The result of the Seattle Park’s parking blockade has been a great reduced reduction in park usage, with all the attendant negative health impacts.   Those who wish to drive to their favorite park are forced to park far away, often in crowded situations, and frequently must walk close together on limited (and crowded) access paths.
Far fewer elderly and mobility-impaired people have been unable to enjoy the parks as result of the parking ban.  To note one concerning case, last week I viewed an elderly couple walking haltingly towards Magnuson Park, at least 1/4 mile away (see picture).  They were having a hard time.  In the past, some mobility-impaired folks would drive to the park and just stay in their cars, enjoying the wonderful view and fresh air.  Or perhaps put out a few lawn chairs.   No longer.

An elderly couple had a long walk to get to the park.  A very long walk.
And the demographics of Magnuson Park visitors (and visitors to other major parks) have changed radically.  During normal times, there was a wonderful multicultural mix.  Lower-income folks who lived in apartments could drive to the park to enjoy a wide expanse of grass and water.  Many would bring chairs, tables, barbecues, and more, making an entire of day of it.
No longer.  Picnicking and barbecuing are forbidden.   Hundreds of signs tell people to “KEEP IT MOVING”  and the limited number of people in the park no longer represent the diversity of our community.   To put it more bluntly, the folks living near our large waterfront parks (e.g., Magnuson, Discovery, Carkeek, etc.) tend to be far richer and less diverse than the “interior” of the city.  The big parks are the “neighborhood” parks of the well-to-do.
So, we have a major American city that has put into place measures that reduces park access for lower income, more heavily minority communities, the mobility impaired, and the elderly, and leaves the best parks for higher income folks.  Does this sound consistent with “progressive” values?  Maddeningly, such restrictions are totally inconsistent with scientific knowledge about the virus.  They are arbitrary and wrong.
And folks, it is even worse than that.  Recently, the Parks and Recreation Department decided to kick folks out of the large parks at 8 PM (see sign).   Here are some science facts for them to consider:   sunset today is 8:37 PM and soon will be after 9 PM.  It is quite light for at least a half-hour after sunset.  
So, no sunset views for Seattle park goers at Carkeek, Golden Gardens, Lincoln or Discovery parks, to name only a few.  No enjoyment of the sublime views and pleasant conditions at the end of the day. And their sign was very deceptive, making one think the park was closed.  The red sign is not very subtle:  Seattle Parks Department does not want you there.

Washington State Beaches Are Closed
Closing of the State beaches (and the wonderful State parks along the Columbia Gorge), has to be one of the strangest and most counterproductive decisions made by government officials of Washington State in a long time.

The beaches offer vast areas for social distancing and lots of wind, meaning that dilution of the virus would be extreme.  Plus, high humidity, which is proven to inhibit the spread of the virus. 

Based on the unphysical and unscientific supposition  that a few people might be too close on the beaches and spread the virus (which is virtually impossible in that environment), the State is preventing EVERYONE from enjoying the beaches.  Such silly measures were also put in place in California.  Just irrational decision-making. The Serious Policy Issue:  Decision Making in A Democracy and Collective Punishment
But just as problematic as the rejection of science and the misguided restrictions of Seattle Parks and the State of Washington is how these decisions are being made and the demeaning ways the messages are being delivered.
Look at the signs place around Seattle Parks.   Warning that crowded parks will lead to closed parks!  If too many people, desperately in need to get out into the fresh air, visit the parks, Seattle Parks and Recreation will close the parks!

And the signs make it clear, that they will be watching to ensure compliance.  Other signs warn to keep moving! (see below), or note that picnicking is forbidden.  Don’t even think about stopping to enjoy the view or enjoy a snack on a blanket or bench.

The State parks have similar threats.

What we have here is the threat of collective punishment if a few people “break the rules” created by some misguided elected officials or city/state bureaucrats.   Everyone will suffer if a few kids gather too closely or some of the “unwoken” have an illicit picnic.  
This kind of communal punishment is exactly the favored approach of totalitarian regimes, such as in Maoist China, the Soviet Union, and North Korea.  Our Parks Department even encourages you to report on those defying the ban and provide telephone numbers and email addresses (206 684-4075 or  Reporting on one’s neighbor and friends has always been a potent tool of totalitarian regimes, as is scaring the population to make the more pliable, which is going on now in a major way.

An activity forbidden in a Seattle Park
There are dangers to our democratic institutions in the way the coronavirus situation is being handled, both regarding the parks and otherwise.

Some elected official and government agencies are taking on enormous powers to restrain movement, to enforce lockdowns, to forbid gatherings, to close parks, and even restrict the “peaceful assembly” protected by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.   One could imagine that such enormous powers could be abused by an individual wishing to gain control of a society.  I am NOT suggesting that any of current leaders have such intent, but this is a potentially dangerous precedent.  Personally, I would be far more comfortable if such draconian measures were required to be directly approved by our state legislators or city councils.   Such democratic checks on executive power does exist in some states.

Huge play fields are closed
The Bottom Line:  End Restrictions on Our Parks and Beaches

The decisions to close beaches and parks, or restrict access to them, has been misguided.  There is no evidence of a threat of outdoor transmission in parks and natural areas, even when folks are gathered in activities such as picnicking and barbecuing.  There is strong scientific evidence for the lack of threat and powerful fact-based arguments that outdoor air is safe (e.g., dispersion by winds, UV radiation killing virus, higher humidity).   The policies in Seattle and Washington State have particularly hurt low-income, elderly, and mobility-restricted populations, and are contradictory to the progressive policies favored by many.  The restrictions have been wielded in a heavy-handed, undemocratic way with totalitarian overtones, and have been conceived and effected in a way contradictory to those of a democratic society.

In short, the restrictions on our beaches and parks should be removed immediately.

If you agree, perhaps you might express your views to those constraining park access.  Some contact information is found below:

Seattle Parks:
Phone: 206 684-4075

Washington State Parks
Phone: 360-902-8844

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Dan Sudlik
May 12, 2020 2:19 pm

Don’t you dare contradict the science of government which is to tell you what you can and can’t do. Listen to your betters and SHUT UP! So there 🤪

Curious George
Reply to  Dan Sudlik
May 12, 2020 5:05 pm

The virus seems to like progressive environments. Not just Seattle, but the whole West Coast, plus New York and New England.

old white guy
Reply to  Dan Sudlik
May 13, 2020 4:32 am

There has been no science surrounding the lockdowns just pure politics.

Reply to  Dan Sudlik
May 13, 2020 5:20 am

Through anti-body testing Ohio has now moved up it’s “1st case” to January 7th. It was originally March 6th. The 1st case of Jan. 7 isn’t an individual case either it’s 6 cases in 6 separate counties across the State of Ohio. Ohio didn’t lock down until late March, which means the virus was free running for at least 90 days before the lock down.

So where are all the deaths in Ohio in January, February and most of March?

Take note that Ohio and Michigan schools were hit hard with illness back in November, December and in late January early February many schools closed either for a few days or the entire week because so many kids were out sick.

Never mind any of that information, continue to lock down and destroy the economy and pretend the virus magically didn’t do anything for 90+ days and only started doing something once the Governor decided to lock down, that date magically caused it to spread (ignore that testing started then increased).

Caligula Jones
Reply to  Dan Sudlik
May 14, 2020 7:06 am

As the left continually bleats, its SCIENCE all the way down. SCIENCE SCIENCE SCIENCE…

Well, here’s some @#$%@#% science:

Let’s call it the Potential Non-Social Distancing Index (PNSDI). Its the measure of how close I’ll get while walking my dog.

The PNSDI is based on a measure of area divided by the population of that area multiplied by the time I’m out of the house.

So: 10 blocks X 10,000 neighbours X 1 hour walk

Now, when the off-leash dog parks were open here in Toronto, I could walk my dog a half block and let him run like the maniac he is for 15 minutes. I could literally stand 100 meters from the nearest other human. My PNSDI would be near zero.

However, some braniac decided that off-leash dog parks were DANGEROUS. I mean, much more dangerous than, say, stuffing sick patients into old age homes (Gov. Cuomo up for a Nobel Peace Prize yet for that?).

So now…I walk my dog for an hour (leashed dogs don’t get as much exercise as running dogs)…on sidewalks crowded with hundreds of people, families with strollers, kids on scooters, learning to ride bikes. I often have to walk on the street, have to walk further and further away from home…

My PNSDI is maxed.

Yeah, real smart. Don’t even start me on the “can’t run him on the beaches”, either.

Its like ashtrays: smoking in banned in Toronto restaurants and bars, yet the city won’t allow establishments to put up ashtrays outside. Don’t want to encourage smoking…so the butts go on the sidewalk, in the planters, etc.

Yeah, real smart.

May 12, 2020 2:29 pm

Seems the approach is to ban anything that might be enjoyable. This is happening all over the world. The only reason is control over people. The pity of it is how many sour idiots support this kind of control.

Reply to  FranBC
May 12, 2020 2:41 pm

A lot of people don’t support it. Here are some wise words.

Reply to  Scissor
May 12, 2020 3:00 pm

Fired. But…

Reply to  Scissor
May 13, 2020 5:09 am

I’ve often wondered how Law Enforcement would behave while ordered to enforced unlawful or unconstitutional laws, especially during a National Emergency. My conclusion was they would enforce these decrees because they are still getting paid by the STATE. My prediction is mostly holding true.

Curious George
Reply to  FranBC
May 12, 2020 5:10 pm

The keyword is “to ban”. It starts with banning single-use shopping bags, followed by a ban on reusable bags. Of course, the situation has changed meanwhile, but the progressive approach is always TO BAN.

Reply to  FranBC
May 12, 2020 7:59 pm

Similarly in France, beaches are still closed ( and heavily policed ).

Under full lockdown which ended on 11th May, even people in sparsely populated rural areas were not allowed to go more than 1km from their place of residence.

Ban anything enjoyable and get people used to mindless control orders seems to be the aim.

Reply to  Greg
May 13, 2020 12:09 am

Ban every single thing that’s usefull to decrease the infection spread (parks, woods, beachs, etc.) and to maintain people’s health (including mental health) and conversely, impose them to stay in confined locations, where the virus is more likely to spread, most of the time.

This has indeed nothing to do with science based healthcare policies but all to do with fascism based on fake science with a clear aim to brutally harm all the generations (ederly, workers, children) of the people.

The worst is that the people are not going to wake up anytime soon, at least here in France.

Charles de Gaulle was right : “Les Français sont des veaux.”

Paul C
Reply to  Greg
May 13, 2020 3:12 am

Only banned to the legal resident population though. Those who are illegally in France and want to illegally enter Britain can access the empty beaches to launch their crafts to get half way across the channel where they are then ferried across to England’s empty ports by our own border insecurity services.

May 12, 2020 2:39 pm

The American people just roll over. Our founding fathers must be rolling in their graves. Might as well scrap the 2nd Amendment with everything else. Guns don’t protect democracy-people do—and the people seem to have chosen servitude like a good puppy. Roll over to get your belly scratched Fido.

Oh well, maybe our masters will be kind. Food stamps and vaccines for all, maybe a piece of meat instead of veggie meat now and then. Vaccination certificates and a license needed to hit the beach. Lol

Stephen King never imagined anything like this. Brave New World joining up with 1984.

Richard (the cynical one)
Reply to  Pft
May 12, 2020 5:48 pm

When it comes to gaining new territory over which to exercise your authority, are you going to let common sense get in the way? I mean, common sense is so dull and common.

Doc Chuck
Reply to  Richard (the cynical one)
May 12, 2020 8:27 pm

Consider it a major boon that agendized liars and controllers are exposing their true dispositions toward democratic principles and even common sense during this living experiment evoking their actions. And do register that caveat solidly in memory for ready insight the next time they propose a seemingly appealing role for themselves as your caretakers.

Steve Oregon
Reply to  Pft
May 12, 2020 6:56 pm

“The American people just roll over. Our founding fathers must be rolling in their graves.”
But I am convinced they are going to be given a big test real soon as the insanity produces epic misery and suffering.
Far from merely cabin fever and other inconveniences the shutdown depression is triggering multiple ripple effects through everything that can be broken and will.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Pft
May 12, 2020 7:26 pm

Our Founding Fathers addressed this in the Declaration of Independence:
“…all experience hath shown, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.”
We have been willing to go along with government restrictions and lock down orders based on the idea that we must prevent overwhelming the health care system. Sufferable evils so to speak.

The Declaration continues:
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government and to provide new Guards for their future Security…”
The change in reasoning for the continued government ordered lock downs to “prevent deaths” becomes an abuse and usurptation of the people’s rights. If “to prevent deaths” becomes an accepted doctrine, it can and will be used every time the government seeks to institute controls over the people. Where will it stop? Perhaps it should stop now.

Reply to  Tom in Florida
May 13, 2020 12:09 pm

The urinating on the Constitution will not stop while 70-80% of the people want it as shown by approval rating rocket rise for the governors that bashed us the most.

I believe some Americans will literally have to starve to DEATH before the rest get a clue.

But we can help. Signs like those should have additions such as:
We want to KILL you! Actual science (taking a look) reveals that viruses survive only seconds in the sunshine, and most catch COVID INDOORS.
And a few other short slogans. ONE per sign. too much info and people turn you off and join the enemy. The stupid level is what it is.
Be sure to include positives–these monsters are SCARED. And “perfect Love casts out fear.”

May 12, 2020 2:39 pm

“There is minimal risk of coronavirus spread outdoors.”

obviously…when 100’s of thousands of kids hit the beaches for spring break…there were surprisingly very few cases

Florida, Georgia have opened beaches…..there’s been no big spike since

but of all things….who would have thought Carnival Cruises would be totally booked out for August…not one empty space left on any of their ships

Adam Gallon
Reply to  Latitude
May 13, 2020 3:42 am

Plenty of people still appear to believe “It’s just a bad cold” & “It’s only the old who die from it”

old white guy
Reply to  Adam Gallon
May 13, 2020 4:39 am

Adam, for 85% of the people it is less than a cold, for the percentage above that age is a factor in the severity. So far the world wide death rate has not exceeded 0.2% of cases. Approximately 292 k deaths world wide as of this am, based on total population it really cannot be considered a pandemic. The hysterical insanity however has become a mental illness pandemic.

Greg Cavanagh
May 12, 2020 2:47 pm

It’s a mad, mad world.

It’s truly scary just how quickly civilised society shut itself down because of advice from an expert. Did nobody question the expert? Did nobody look at his previous predictions? Nope, and nope.

Whoever says these things can’t happen, hasn’t been paying attention. This should be a wakeup call to common sense and critical thinking. But I recognise that people never learn from experience. Exhibit A = Democrat voters.

Reply to  Greg Cavanagh
May 12, 2020 4:21 pm

Fear is powerful.

People once said “Give me liberty, or give me death.” Now, fear has made people say “Give me neither liberty nor death”.

What is so disgusting to me is the media is purposefully leaving out easy-to-prove and very important facts that shows there is no need to be afraid. They are in a position to stop this by simply telling the whole truth, but instead they pour gasoline on the fire. Today while waiting for the weather report to come on, I saw a reporter outside wearing a non-medical facemask that was not on properly. Three things wrong with that facemask. First, it has been proven for a long time that outdoor transmission is minimal. Second, facemasks do not work as well as people think and non-medical ones only make the problem worse. (Sources: and ) And third, even if it did work well, it has to be fitted properly to even be effective. If I could ask the media one question, it would simply be “How does your conscience let you sleep at night?”

If that wasn’t bad enough, Google, Facebook, Twitter, et al is hiding or censoring any provable good news about the virus.

Reply to  Wade
May 13, 2020 1:19 am

Wade you are simply wrong, Slovakia was first in world outside of Asia to wear face masks, 7 days after first case in country. And it it is clearly visible on virus cases. Virus never got out of control, most of cases were imported and internal cases were mostly located in low hygiene gypsy settlements and 2 retirement houses. Total deaths is hovering at 4.9 per million. Which is best in whole Europe and north America.
New cases for last 5 days were 0, 2, 0, 8, 4
Maximum number of people put on ventilator was 2.
Death rate was 1.8% of detected positive cases what is also excellent number, comparing with Italy 13.8% and US 5.9%.
Again Slovakia was probably first country to have 0 new cases per day in Europe and north America.
This was possible without hard lockdown and shutting down industry.
People are currently enjoying free travel, opening of hotels, hair saloons, terrace bars.

Reply to  Peter
May 13, 2020 5:42 am

Peter, did you READ what the CDC and NIH both said? These studies pre-date the COVID-19 fear?

Reply to  Wade
May 13, 2020 6:14 am

You mean this?
CDC on 3rd April reversed recommendation on wearing masks.
If you are speaking about WHO recommendation to not wear masks, that they are useless from start of March, they revoked this too. They said that this announcement was made to protect face masks stocks for healthcare workers. Well they maybe protected few of them, but directly caused hundreds of thousands sick and thousands death.
And I’m not talking about study, but real world situation.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Peter
May 13, 2020 6:14 am

Peter, wow. So, correlation DOES equal causation. Who knew?

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
May 13, 2020 8:57 am

I would say causation equals correlation in this case. Just check Czech Republic, they ordered face masks on 18th March, their daily number of cases maxed out on 27th March, 9 days after face masks. From 3rd April, 16 days after face masks they are on decline.
You can see similar trends in all countries which mandated face cover.

Chris Wright
Reply to  Wade
May 13, 2020 2:54 am

Yes, fear is a great motivator. It gets things done.

Ron Long
Reply to  Greg Cavanagh
May 12, 2020 5:47 pm

Greg, you’re two mads short. It’s a mad, mad, mad, mad world. Fixed it.

Reply to  Greg Cavanagh
May 13, 2020 12:38 am

As far as I understand it’s rather the other way around :
– this clown with a pathetic track record has been nevertheless endorsed by the politicians BECAUSE most of them want to radically change our way of life with brutallity and by applying fascist rules.

Maybe some politicians have been deceived, but it seems very strange to me that they could have given any credit to someone recognized as an incompetent charlatan since years.

Same thing with respect to the climate scam and its clowns :
– how can it be that M. Mann is still hired and not in jail (or at least fired and completely discredited) ?

May 12, 2020 2:58 pm

Boris has realised he was fighting a losing battle, and in the UK we were increasingly ignoring the silly diktat to not use parks or beaches so has had to change the rules, and all of a sudden officaldon has agreed it is best to be outside due to increasing Amounts of ‘evidence,’ also known as common sense .

Why anyone thought stewing in a house whilst being infected by the other members of the household as they went out for exercise or shopping and came back into a closed environment is beyond me.

Robert W. Turner
May 12, 2020 2:59 pm

“These politicians and bureaucrats may mean well” Oh my sweet summer child.

May 12, 2020 3:00 pm

Nice data from Fort Dertick.

Not relevant to Seattle.

Temperature rarely 95F.

Even summer usually cloudy and cool with drizzle until July 15th.
Then miraculously a big light in the sky appears, natives go wild, perfect weather for 2 months, maybe 2 1/2 if your lucky, then back to damp and cool.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  a_scientist
May 12, 2020 3:25 pm

Like vancouver
Mostly crappy

Michael C Herr
Reply to  a_scientist
May 12, 2020 4:07 pm

Fort Detrick is a LABORATORY where things are studied and scientific determinations are made. (do you even know where it is?)

Reply to  Michael C Herr
May 13, 2020 9:13 am

I see I needed the /sarc tag…

Craig from Oz
Reply to  a_scientist
May 12, 2020 6:46 pm

So… Seattle is constantly 22C, 20% humidity and zero sunshine, both indoors and out, all year round?

Also Seattle air does not circulated naturally?

I see…

Thinking… that probably explains the really bad food poisoning I got last time I was there. Nothing do to with buying seafood chowder from a food court really late on a Friday afternoon then.

Terry Bixler
May 12, 2020 3:07 pm

Newsome and Garcetti our Masters have decided to open the beaches in Los Angeles on Wednesday 13 Mar 2020 for “specific” use. I wonder if a specific use card is required? Parking lots will remain closed. I am sure this is based on expert advice from an “expert”. Of course transmission of the virus at the beach is anecdotal, but rules are rules.

May 12, 2020 3:09 pm

I kind of see this as a watershed. We have been drifting towards big brother becoming more and more controlling, sapping away most of the freedoms we all have enjoyed and this “pandemic’ has absolutely crossed over and pushed us into the abyss.

If you look at the reality, CV-19 is a really mean disease for those susceptible but for most people, especially the under 50 crowd, it is anywhere from literally nothing to just a pretty bad case of the flu. It was originally thought it would be pneumonia that would kill you, but it has turned out the underlying real issue is probably uncontrolled oxidative stress primarily attacking endothelial cells resulting in thrombosis. As a result, there was a lot of wasted everything ramping up for the wrong thing.

So as we are moving along, it is becoming pretty apparent if you are in the high risk group you had better keep yourself out of harms way, but if you are the 80%+ of those who aren’t, catching this isn’t a real issue. What to do? It looks like the Red States are going back to normal but the Blue States are going to continue the lockdown. How long will it be before the 80% of the population of the Blue States see the light and force a move?

I don’t know the answer but my guess is we are going to come out of this with a much different attitude. The younger people aren’t going to go along with the paternal government. I see it with my kids already. To them and their friends, this already is about over and they are going back to normal regardless of what any politician says or does. Then we have the unemployed who have to feed themselves and their families, pay the rent or mortgage and just live. I also don’t see them continue with the current status quo. It will be very interesting to see where we are in two month’s time.

Reply to  rbabcock
May 13, 2020 12:17 pm

As a 67-year old with asthma, I really worry about all this harping on “protecting” the vulnerable groups. In reality, our survival requires the same things everyone else needs–plenty of fresh air and sunshine, and a SOCIAL LIFE AND LOVE.

Pail Tandom
May 12, 2020 3:27 pm

In southeast BC where I live people are out camping on wide spots on forest service roads or clearings because the provincial campgrounds have been closed.

May 12, 2020 3:32 pm

The seems that the political motivation is to hurt Trump by extending the hardship as long as possible under the guise of an emotion triggering ‘greater good’. Interstingly enough, those most affected by these draconian government actions are in districts controlled by Democrats that Trump has no chance of winning anyway. The TDS infection is now attacking itself. Will this lead to herd immunity?

Steven Mosher
May 12, 2020 3:56 pm
Farmer Ch E retired
Reply to  Steven Mosher
May 12, 2020 5:27 pm

Per your link, the countries beating CV-19 look like countries that did not flatten the curve. In all fairness, the US is like a grouping of countries (i.e. 50 States) so IMO, the tail is misleading. The US groups Florida with NY with Arizona with Hawaii with Alaska etc. etc. It would be interesting to see this analysis for the US in a State-by-State comparison.

Steven Mosher
Reply to  Farmer Ch E retired
May 13, 2020 12:18 am

“It would be interesting to see this analysis for the US in a State-by-State comparison.”

its there.

But you want county by county

Reply to  Steven Mosher
May 12, 2020 7:05 pm

The places with fewer problems predominantly have the less virulent strain. Italy and Eastern U.S. were seeded with the more virulent one.

David Joyce
Reply to  Steven Mosher
May 13, 2020 5:27 am

What this graphic conveniently hides is that the peak death rates vary by 3 to 4 ORDERS of magnitude!!!
Everyone will finally have the same curve. Who will be the winners in the end – those whose death rates peaked at 1 per million, not those that peaked at 1000 per million. And so far there is no convincing evidence that humans have had any contribution to this orders of magnitude variation in death rates between countries.

May 12, 2020 4:27 pm

Here is why quarantine of healthy people is a mistake:
Sooner or later many, perhaps most, otherwise healthy people will get it, recover and for at least months be immune and cannot infect others. About half will not even have symptoms. The risk of them dying from it is negligible.

Those with co-morbidities (obesity, diabetes, old (like me), etc.) need to take every precaution to avoid becoming infected because the consequences can be excruciating including a significant possibility of death. We cannot safely return to normal life style until herd immunity develops either the old fashioned way by getting the disease and recovering or by vaccination. Vaccination is not yet available.

All that social spacing, masks, quarantine, etc. will do is slow the development of herd immunity the old fashioned way.

May 12, 2020 4:31 pm

It’s a plague. No, not the virus, the SS mindset. Who knew it was so contagious!

Reply to  Toto
May 12, 2020 5:24 pm

The picture shows couples/family groups all separated by the required 2m, probably less because of rules and more because of privacy. What precisely is wrong with this? Here we have cancelled the Sat am hiking group because it is too dangerous to be out in the open air?

Although Vancouver had to open parks, a lot of those using them are probably identical to those wanting to stay on Trudeau’s handouts. Here in the hinterlands, a friend who is opening up his furniture store has had to hire a delivery guy on temporarily because the regular guy and his wife are each getting 2k/month and don’t want to work. However the regular guy cannot be fired because COVID. How long after the ’emergency’ is over will you be able to fire those who were reluctant to come back??

Farmer Ch E retired
May 12, 2020 5:12 pm

Maybe Seattle officials have been doing the Knee Jerk dance.

May 12, 2020 6:01 pm

Many people who live in some of these jurisdictions are beginning to rebel against what many believe are fascist and draconian mandates. Let us hope that the next time these radical politicians stand for reelection, they are not return to government.

Tom Abbott
May 12, 2020 6:36 pm

Well, it looks to me like some of these decisions are so ridiculous they should put the careers of these politicians in jeopardy.

There are elections coming up in November. The people of Washington can correct their mistake then. Now’s your chance. Write it down on your calendar.

Voting petty dictators out of office should be the focus of the people of Washington State. Exercise your constitutional rights.

May 12, 2020 6:45 pm

I suspect that the reason for the outdoors restrictions is to protect the governments from the American Bar Association.

May 12, 2020 7:19 pm

Here in Chicago most parks and beaches are closed. Not all, though, and it is hard to understand the Mayor’s strategy. I can watch Foster Beach and the Lakeside Path from my condo, and today there was some civil disobedience to be seen. The weather is about to warm up for the next ten days, and there will be people out. Outdoor transmission of the virus being virtually non-existent, I will be among them.

Is this the first time in history that healthy people have been quarantined? Wow, lucky us….

May 12, 2020 7:20 pm

Lakefront Trail, excuse me…

May 12, 2020 9:10 pm

The National Park Service has done the same things to federal beaches and parking lots in the San Francisco area. You can’t drive, they closed the road to vehicles. You can’t park, they closed the parking lots. You can bike, run, jog, or whatever to the beach. That is a blatantly unlawful policy (ADA, etc) and cowardly too boot. The lots and roads were open for quite a while but then the park managers folded like a house of cards. I can’t blame them too much because they were being hounded by the public and seven local counties were giving them the stink-eye.

May 12, 2020 10:19 pm

Not only are Republican controlled states fairing better than Democrat controlled states, the same goes for counties. Here in eastern Washington State which is predominately Republican we have more freedom to do outdoor activities than people in the western part of the state. Just last Saturday my wife and I took a drive up into some nearby mountains and saw several crowds of people (around 50 or so) enjoying a timed, mountain bike competition.

When the panic set in last February, the local police in our town let it be known that they would not be involved in trying to restrict the normal freedoms of our citizens.

May 12, 2020 10:50 pm

Sorry Blue State suckers, you get the government you elect. We Red State patriots have never shut our parks or sent police to harass people minding their own business. And our energy, utilities, cost of loving, and taxes are low. Sucks to be you, but you let it happen. Time for Republicans in blue states to rise up and carve off the 3- or 4-county metropolitan portions dominated by Leftist nutters into their own Hunger Games Blue hell and and leave the rest of the state for the sane and the free. Or move to a place not governed by morons Democrats.

May 13, 2020 1:05 am

Cardio-vascular fitness seldom gets a mention, but if you barely do any aerobic exercise your cardiovascular system will only be able to provide enough oxygen for moderate exertion. If you lose half your lung capacity due to infection, what is going to happen?

Cyclists beware: cycling is too easy, except for going up long hills, or heading into strong winds. Well toned thighs won’t save you.

Coach Springer
May 13, 2020 5:16 am

When they go to examine the effect of sunshine, they will also have to factor the requirements to stay indoors at all time into their analyses. Staying indoors with the virus is the only safe way to quarantine?

David Joyce
May 13, 2020 5:16 am

This is becoming increasingly politicized, at least in Blue States. Friends in Mifflin County PA, which is an extremely rural county consisiting mostly of Mennonite farmers is closed, whereas adjacent Centre County, home to Penn State is open, even though Centre county actually has covid19 deaths, unlike Mifflin. Now the governor is threatening to withold Federal money from counties that threaten to not obey his shutdown orders.

Steve Oregon
May 13, 2020 6:35 am

“World of Speed museum will close permanently in Wilsonville due to coronavirus crisis”

No. It’s not the virus. It’s the governor’s forced shutdown.

“The board announced Tuesday that directors had voted to close the museum after it became clear it would not reopen for months under Gov. Kate Brown’s phased plan to restart the state economy. The museum had been shut down since March 16.”

Michael C Herr
Reply to  Steve Oregon
May 13, 2020 6:56 am

Over reaching governor’s doing, for sure.

May 13, 2020 9:11 am

Each day I get a little more interested in the RV living channels on YouTube. There are not enough enforcers to cover the thousands of square miles in the Rocky Mountains and western US.

May 13, 2020 10:02 am

These politicians and bureaucrats may mean well

No they don’t. The dark side in them I sense.

Joel Snider
May 13, 2020 11:29 am

Go figure – the climate-change governor going whole-hog totalitarian. Fits Jay Inslee like a fascist glove.

May 13, 2020 8:56 pm

When you watched the United States democratic debates, you realize these democrats live in a different universe then one of reality. They have no common sense.

Where do most democrats end up working? our government. Now they are dictating our life, making stupid decisions that have no common sense.

May 14, 2020 10:46 am

The green pigs are in control now.

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