Is Working From Home the New Normal? Or a Green Fantasy?

Guest “NFW!” by David Middleton

How Working From Home Will Impact Oil Demand Forever
By Michael Kern – Apr 23, 2020

It’s day 33 for me. I leave the house to walk the dog and occasionally swing by the corner store. But that’s about it. I haven’t ridden in a car since March 20th, nor a bus or any form of transportation other than my bicycle. I’m sure I’m not alone, and it’s got me thinking. How exactly has this lockdown impacted oil demand? And perhaps more importantly, will this way of life become somewhat of a new normal?

Most articles mention that COVID-19 has had a devastating impact on the demand for crude oil. 

[…]

Before, about 5 percent of Americans had the luxury of being able to work from home. Now, more than 30 percent of the country is logging in from their couch instead of pouring up a to-go coffee and rushing out the door every morning. And though this lockdown has some of us clawing at the walls, desperate to go back to the office, or at least have some change in scenery, the cat is out of the bag. 

Workers and companies alike now see that it’s actually possible to be productive remotely. For employers, this means savings. Cheaper offices, no more mileage checks, no more stocking up on gallons upon gallons of coffee….you get the picture. For workers, well, for most, it means one thing and one thing only: no more commute. 

[…]

So back to my original thought, what if “when this is all over” things don’t just return to what they once were? The world is grappling with a (hopefully) once-in-a-lifetime crisis, and surely it won’t be that easy for many people to simply dive right back into the mix, sitting in a small box for hours upon hours every week. So where will that leave oil? 

We’ve heard “lower for longer” oil prices before…right before they jumped back up into the $60-70 range. But what if this is the real deal? Could COVID-19 potentially be a catalyst in a series of events that leads to peak oil demand? Or will demand recover to pre-crisis levels? 

Oil Price Dot Com

Where do I start?

Before, about 5 percent of Americans had the luxury of being able to work from home. Now, more than 30 percent of the country is logging in from their couch…

Professional blogger

I think it’s about 37% of Americans who have been able to work from home, to varying extent and effectiveness. Professional bloggers probably have no problem “logging on from their couch.” For most of us with real jobs, it has been less than ideal. It’s been OK for me; but not as productive as I would have been at the office.

That said, it’s been far worse for the roughly 26 million Americans who have lost their jobs since much of America was placed under house arrest. This is what the Communist Chinese virus has done to Texas:

Data from Texas Dept. of Health and Human Services and Texas Workforce Commission

For every confirmed ChiCom-19 case, 46 Texans have applied for unemployment benefits. For every death even tangentially related to ChiCom-19, 1,439 Texans have applied for unemployment benefits. Government officials from the State to county to local levels have shut our economy down in an effort to prevent the hospitals from becoming overloaded: Mission, to the extent it was even necessary, accomplished…

Texas Statewide Hospitalization Data as of 4/27 at 9:30AM CST
Hospital dataCount
Lab Confirmed COVID-19 Patients Currently in Texas Hospitals1,563
Total Texas Staffed Hospital Beds51,979
Available Texas Hospital Beds20,277
Available Texas ICU Beds2,147
Available Texas Ventilators6,045
https://www.dshs.state.tx.us/coronavirus/additionaldata/

Our hospitals never came close to becoming overloaded. However, the Texas Workforce Commission was, and still is, overloaded with people filing unemployment claims.

Despite the fact that much of Texas’ working and school aged population has been under house arrest, 81% of the cases were among ages 0-64.

Age of Confirmed Cases as of 4/27 at 9:30 AM CST 
AgeCountPercentage 
<1 year170.3% 
1-9 years450.9% 
10-19 years1222.5% 
20-29 years68914.0% 
30-39 years84217.1% 
40-49 years94819.2% 
50-59 years90618.4% 
60-64 years4098.3%80.7%
65-69 years2935.9% 
70-74 years2094.2% 
75-79 years1422.9% 
80+ years2795.7% 
Unknown290.6% 
Total4,930100.0% 
https://www.dshs.state.tx.us/coronavirus/additionaldata/

But 76% of the fatalities have been among people age 65 and older.

Age of Confirmed Fatalities as of 4/27 at 9:30 AM CST 
AgeCountPercentage 
<1 year00.0% 
1-9 years00.0% 
10-19 years00.0% 
20-29 years30.9% 
30-39 years61.9% 
40-49 years154.7% 
50-59 years309.4% 
60-64 years196.0%23.0%
65-69 years4213.2% 
70-74 years309.4% 
75-79 years319.7% 
80+ years14044.0%76.4%
Unknown20.6% 
Grand Total318100.0% 
https://www.dshs.state.tx.us/coronavirus/additionaldata/

In Dallas County, about 40% of the fatalities “have been associated with long-term care facilities.” Locking down the economy didn’t help these people. Locking it down tighter, faster of for a longer period of time wouldn’t have helped them either.

For employers, this means savings. Cheaper offices, no more mileage checks, no more stocking up on gallons upon gallons of coffee….you get the picture.

Professional blogger

No. I really don’t “get the picture.” Most companies that have”offices,” either own or lease space for those offices in office buildings and they have generally invested a fair bit of money in their office space. While professional bloggers might not need anything more than a laptop, WiFi and a couch to professionally blog… That’s not really adequate for most jobs. If it was, our employers, who are always looking to save money, would have just had us work from home in the first place. Regarding “stocking up on gallons upon gallons of coffee,” if that was a significant cost of doing business, the break room would be devoid of coffee and just about everything else.

So back to my original thought, what if “when this is all over” things don’t just return to what they once were?

Professional blogger

The State of Texas actually began reopening last week, with so-called non-essential businesses being allowed to reopen if they can do curbside pickup. The official reopening is this Friday, when many businesses, including restaurants, will be able to reopen with strict social distancing measures. The City of Colleyville jumped the gun by a week and gave us a sneak peak at what will happen “when this is all over”…

North Texans head to Colleyville as the city lifts restrictions on restaurants, other businesses
By Dionne Anglin Published 3 days ago Colleyville FOX 4

COLLEYVILLE, Texas – The city of Colleyville has moved forward with relaxing restrictions on businesses and churches before Tarrant County and the state of Texas do the same.

“You know what, I’m just glad to be out here. All I had was queso, hot sauce, and chips,“ Hugh Hunt said.

The food, however impressive, was not the biggest incentive for folks flocking to this patio spot for lunch in Colleyville.

“Somebody finally got the message, we’ve got to get back to normal,” Camilla Puckett said.

“We drove all the way from Rockwall, which is the other side of Dallas, to just come over here and eat in Colleyville, support what they were doing. Excited about getting to eat out again honestly,” Steve Swofford said.

[…]

The Swoffords said that in their opinion, the economy has suffered enough from restrictions brought on by COVID-19.

“We feel it’s safe right here as we do at Walmart. In fact, they’ve done a great job of spreading out,” Brenda Swofford said. “As we came in, they assured us of the safeguards they’ve put in place.“

Some are saying it more radically than others.

“I have not bought into any of this stuff we’ve been going through. I don’t think we should’ve ever been shut down. I’m thankful we are finally getting to come out and do what we normally do and go to stores and live a normal life,” Hunt said.

Fox4News

When Dionne Anglin reported this story on TV the other day, she was actually wearing safety glasses, but no mask… Go figure.

The world is grappling with a (hopefully) once-in-a-lifetime crisis, and surely it won’t be that easy for many people to simply dive right back into the mix, sitting in a small box for hours upon hours every week. So where will that leave oil? 

Professional Blogger

The first question should be: “So where will that leave the people?” If their office is reopening, and they stay home, the people may find themselves looking for jobs as professional bloggers.

So where will that leave oil?

Professional Blogger

It depends on how many people take up professional blogging. If enough people stay home, it will leave oil in the ground. If enough people go back to work, it will cause more oil to come out of the ground. The company I work for in Houston will start staging the office back open next week. While I like blogging, when the company says they would like me back at the office, I’ll be there. I have a hunch that most other people with real jobs will also go back to work… Because very few of us are working from home by choice. Consumption of petroleum products sharply declined because government officials shut down huge swaths of our economy.

U.S. consumption of petroleum products has fallen to its lowest level in decades because of measures that limit travel and because of the general economic slowdown induced by mitigation efforts for the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates the decline in petroleum product demand by examining the changes in total product supplied, EIA’s proxy for consumption. As outlined in EIA’s Weekly Petroleum Status Report, published yesterday, total petroleum demand averaged 14.1 million barrels per day (b/d) in the week ending April 17, up slightly from 13.8 million b/d in the previous week—the lowest level in EIA’s weekly data series, which dates back to the early 1990s. The most recent value is 31% lower than the 2020 average from January through March 13, or before many of the travel restrictions began.

US EIA

Consumption has actually rebounded ever so slightly over the past couple of weeks…

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=43455

Where will oil demand and prices be next month? Six months from now? Next year? It depends on how quickly our economy is allowed to reopen. The Energy Information Administration’s most recent Short Term Energy Outlook projected that consumption will be back to normal by Q3 2020.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/

With prices returning to “survivable” levels by early 2021…

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/

We’ll see what the May STEO looks like in a couple of weeks. Until then…

What’s in a name?

I have noticed quite a few comments complaining about by use of “ChiCom-19” instead of whatever the scientific name of the Kung Flu is. I don’t read the comments to other guest authors’ posts very often, so I don’t know if this is the case for Christopher Monckton’s use of “Chinese virus” or Rud Istvan’s “Wuhan #coronavirus.”

I have two three questions;

  1. Do “Chinese virus” and “Wuhan #coronavirus” draw similar complaints?
  2. If not, is it the “Com” part of ChiCom-19 that irks concern trolls?
  3. Why are concern trolls so troubled with offending Communists?

Sergeant Muldoon clearly was not a concern troll.

Dallas County ChiCom-19 Updates

They will be back in a future post. I am gathering more data at the County, State and Federal level.

233 thoughts on “Is Working From Home the New Normal? Or a Green Fantasy?

  1. Forget working from home, the green fantasy is a life of government funded privileges without work. That’s why they continue to push for a “social wage” and believe in the fake modern monetary theory, where a life of luxury can be found at the end of a printing press.

    The reality is that greens are lazy and seek a life of party by night and and abusive protests by day, where they can pretent they are victims of a system that rewards the people that work to provide for their welfare and will never be happy until their welfare provides the same quality of live as those workers earning the highest salaries.

      • I like having the option to do so when necessary… Particularly at night and on weekends, when I have a well drilling.

        • Drilling where? And if so, why? Drilling obligations? EOR campaign? Could/would you describe the incremental economics/EUR'(s) of this well/these wells briefly enough to not take up much of your time? Not disputing you at all. Just curious.

          Thx….

          • Where? Gulf of Mexico, shelf edge 200′ to 300′ water depth.

            Why? In order to increase production, we have to drill wells. We had several good prospects to drill from 3 existing platforms along the shelf edge. Enough to support a big jackup for about 18 months. Drill, complete, drill, complete…

            EOR? Not economically viable for these fields at $50-60/bbl.

            Economics: They were all roughly 1 million BOE p50, mostly oil or high yield gas (70-100 bbl/mmcf). 6 of 7 were discoveries, put on production from late 2018 to late 2019.

            I live in Dallas and work in Houston, 5 of the 7 were mine and every important decision point seems to happen between midnight and 0300, usually on weekends. So the ability to work from home was a big plus. Spent so much of 2018-2019 on Interact, that I had withdrawal symptoms when we released the rig.

          • Needless to say, we will drill few, if any, wells this year and maybe not next year either.

          • “In order to increase production, we have to drill wells. ”

            Agreed. I was looking more for incremental mundane eco indicators. ROI, costs, price deck, production schedules, CAPEX/boe, etc. I.e. petroleum engineering concerns. But your response was both quicker and better than expected, and thanks for taking the time, Mr. Middleton.

            So, no rigs on today, following 2019 rig release? No gotcha or larger point to make. As I said, just curious…

          • I always love to talk shop.

            I’d have to look up the eco details. They were all good enough to drill 100%.

            We have a couple of rigs running in deepwater; but our drilling & recompletion program for 2020 has been paired back to the minimum.

            $50/bbl hedges, slash CapEx, ride out the storm.

        • David,
          How many wells do you drill at home?
          Yes, all the office type work can be done at home, but the physical work, like has to still be done.😛

          • I can “sit the well” from the office or home more effectively than if I was out there. However, the guys on the rig have to be out there.

      • Like a person in my office that told his boss that he may be working from home tomorrow. He will be home; he may be working.

        • It’s actually easier for me to “goof off” at the office. If my wife thinks I’m goofing off, she’ll give me real work to do… 😉

          • With regards to people taking umbridge with the “ChiCom-19” moniker, it’s a silly name for a variety of reasons.

            First, practically all these viruses arise in China, so – apart from the “19” suffix – the label is does nothing to differentiate this padticular virus from all the other flus, colds and nasties that originate there

            Two, the Chinese government may call themselves communist, but ever since they’ve allowed (even some) private ownership of the means of production, their system is more fascist than socialist (a communist “government” is an oxymoron, anyway, because communism is a hierarchy-free vision of utopia… though I agree that if a socialist government calls itself “communist” then it’s unsurprising that the politically-uneducated will take them at their word)

            Three, although there’s plenty of evidence the virus was engineered in a government lab in Wuhan and released (probably accidentally) this remains speculation, so implicating their government by including them in its name is premature

            But it originally broke out and was identified in Wuhan, so “Wuhan Flu” (or “WuFlu”) is both a reasonable and a useful identifier, if SARS-COV-2 is insufficiently geographical for your tastes.

            “Bat soup fever” is still my favorite.

            BTW – you’re using the expression “Concern trolling” wrongly as well. It makes me worry for you 😉

          • Valid points there Observer.

            I think there is blame to be attached to the Chinese government in keeping this quiet and in forcing the WHO to not take action and tell lies. Had they acted immediately they could have stopped the spread out of Wuhan and out of China.

            I think it should NOT be called Wuhan Flu or Wuflu because it is NOT flu and it is very important for people to understand it is SARS.

          • I think there is blame to be attached to the Chinese government in keeping this quiet and in forcing the WHO to not take action and tell lies.

            As I have asked elsewhere, “Do you really expect China to act more towards the interests of the rest of the world, rather than act more towards its own interests?” The expectation on China to be as transparent as people seem to want is a very misplaced expectation. I’m not completely convinced in the lack of transparency that many seem to preach — I just don’t know what China knew. And I have no expectations of China to act as people seem to think that this part of the world should act towards the rest of the world. It’s China! — China cares about China. So, why are we attaching USA ethical, political, social principles to this country, with our false expectations of complete honesty?

            Is the USA completely honest with other countries on some serious matters? — I don’t know, but I’m guessing not.

            Viruses happen. I have no sufficient evidence to convince me of anything other than this particular virus also … “happened” (i.e., was not engineered or escaped from a lab).

            It’s out there, and we need to deal with it rationally, NOT hysterically, as we have been.

            Where is the hysteria for all this USA carnage (four months of death, Jan – Apr, for numerous causes):

            Heart disease: 647,457 x (4/12) = 215,919 deaths

            Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936 x (4/12) = 56,645 deaths

            Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201 x (4/12) = 53,400 deaths

            Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383 x (4/12) = 48,794 deaths

            Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404 x (4/12) = 40,468 deaths

            Diabetes: 83,564 x (4/12) = 27,854 deaths

            Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672 x (4/12) = 18,557 deaths

            Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633 x (4/12) = 16,877 deaths

            Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173 x (4/12) = 15,724 deaths

            As for “Chi Com”, I think it’s funny, although I prefer the funnier “Kung Flu”, but if I’m in a serious discussion [when EVER is that, Kernodle?], I tend to go for “SARS-CoV-2”.

            Other possible suggestions are:
            * SAR Com
            * Chinomite!
            * Mein Flu

          • @ Robert Kernodle

            I really don’t recall China ever announcing to the world at anytime in the past 50 years that a “new” flu virus has evolved in China and will soon be affecting people all over the world.

            It has always been US Public Health Officials that have monitored flu contagion in China and warned the US public of said, ….. with promises of a new vaccine in the making.

            So why the “badmouthing” of China for the current 2020 flu pandemic?

            Well, …. “elementary my dear”, ….. for the past four (4) years most federal government employees have been 99% obsessed with trying to defame and prosecute Donald Trump …. thus they didn’t have the time or willingness to perform the jobs they were being paid to do.

            So, the current Covoid-19 pandemic is more their fault than China’s, but they aren’t about to admit it.

            And Robert, you neglected to include this statistic, to wit:

            In 2018, there were 67,367 drug overdose deaths in the United States,

      • I’ve been doing it for 25 years already, and have been consciously “social distancing” for about five since I started to recognize that most people are a pain in the ass! Never, ever have I seen SO many so overly involved in trying to mandate how others live. One solution is to make oneself invisible to those busybodies who’d like to get their noses all up inside your business.

        The irony of the whole virus panic is now everyone’s having to live about like I do . . . bringing to mind the quote that most of mankind’s problems stem from his inability to sit quietly in a room.

        I find the whole mask/no mask biker jogger walker controversy hilarious–just STAY THE EFF HOME PEOPLE, what is so TOUGH to understand about THAT? If you are REALLY scared of the virus, THAT’s the answer! But they just. can’t. do it so the mask thing in my area has become one more virtue-signal; you’re not “nice” if you’re not wearing one to give all the idiots huffing droplets past your house a false sense of security. But then I’m not nice anyway. 😉

        • Oh, don’t get me started on the mask thing!

          Automatically, in my mind, every single time I see or come near a person in a mask, I hear bleating sheep sounds.

          Masks? Really? It’s come to this? Walking around a huge box store, where, over the intercom, an enthusiastic, positive voice sounds out instructions on how to wash your hands, how close to stand next to someone, how the store has only safety in mind?? WTF! — It’s like walking around in a futuristic movie. Somehow, this is not how I pictured “the future” (2020) — mindless puppets, obeying ill-informed, spineless leaders, who unknowingly are stripping away human rights and freedoms in very basic areas of our lives.

          Masks. Have you SEEN how people are using their masks? People touch them, adjust them constantly, drape them around their necks periodically, only to pull them back over their faces now contaminated, … wearing them without cleaning them, … wearing them just for show, and when a supervisor turns away, off they come, back around the neck or stuffed inside some nasty place, until the next occasion to make the show that obedience is taking place.

          It’s all about the show — virtue signalling, POSITIVELY.

          Actual functionality and effectiveness? — positively NOT!

          It’s a big joke that ends up being a symbolic display of silencing the individual and erasing personal identity, … a group symbol of compliance [We are the Borg — you will be assimilatedesque]

          And the associated phrase that I have already grown tired of is … “the new normal”. I thought my hate of a phrase could not elevate to a level higher than my hate for the phrase, “climate denier”, but here it is — the phrase that tops even that one — THE NEW NORMAL.

          I am witnessing another sophistic hijacking of language, this time to justify ABnormal as “normal”, simply by putting the adjective “new” in front of an ordinarily perfectly functional word. That’s bullshit. Abnormal is NOT a new normal — it is a new level of removing oneself from reality.

          Please, do not give any leeway for people to use this ridiculous inversion of understanding.

          What we are in now is anything but … “normal”. No additional modifiers are going to change that. Face it! THIS IS ABNORMAL. Call it that. Otherwise, STFU and put your mask back on, so I don’t have to look at your stupid face. [speaking to a hypothetical audience of idiots, NOT to anybody at WUWT]

          End rant.

          • Sheeple, on a massive scale! My wife and I were walking the dog around an urban lake last night, and we saw a number of people dozens of yards away from anybody else, power-walking wearing their masks. They consciously made sure to move away from oncoming walkers, as if they thought this virus would leap off someone and work its way into them, like the Ceti eel from The Wrath of Khan. It was surreal. There were dozens of acres of open space around them, yet they behaved as though they were on a Manhattan sidewalk. I’ve never seen anything like the paranoia the media and politicians have induced in the populace. I hope this really isn’t the new abnormal!

          • Think of The Mask® as this government’s version of the Burka, and the various Karens scolding you about not complying as the enforcement bullies for our bureaucratic Taliban.

            You shall wear the veil or suffer consequences – its about the power and control.

          • Robert
            +1000
            Additionally, we have some weird sh*t going on here in Australia.
            #1 supermarkets have signs at entrance warning customers to show respect.
            This is preemptive “ we know the you can’t keep 1.5m away in a supermarket and all the rules are stupid, but please don’t yell at us.”
            The cashier asked me to stand back from the customer in front for everyone’s health and safety BUT the customer in front was buying cigarettes. Luckily, I remembered to show respect.
            #2 in target you aren’t allowed to try on clothes. My wife got scolded for trying on shoes. But snotty nosed kids can still play with all the toys.

          • EPIC rant, may I upvote this 100x?

            Got only one thing to add: “Tide Pods.”

            What is abnormal is being massaged into normalization of the absurd due to weaponized fear. Cherry bomb in the sheep pen, over and over.

            Phrase I hate most: “We’re all in this together.” No. We’re. NOT!!

          • The only reason I wear one is when I have to go to the store to buy something. That’s only because the People’s Republic of California is allowing businesses to turn anyone away that doesn’t wear one.

      • lw – April 29, 2020 at 2:29 am

        The article is about working from home, though. What do you think about working from home?

        The better question to ask is, …… iffen the money was coming directly out of your personal ‘checkbook’ to pay those employees who “want-to-work-at-home”, …… how many “stay-at-home” employees would you be willing to hire?

        I’m pretty sure that the “over 35” Government employees really, really, really, luv the idea of “working from home”.

  2. Not at all a “green fantasy”. It makes sense from a business perspective in the sense a company can “offload” operating expenses to employees. Power, internet access, an office space, heating/aircon, water facilities, kitchen facilities, insurance. Companies can shut all that down and pass on those costs to employees, at the same time cutting wages.

    The company I work for have proven it works, on a large scale, and all the usual applications/data can be accessed securely. People have been sent home with company computers/equipment etc. It will be the new norm.

    I have operated “telecommuting” systems since the late 80’s and saw this was the way then. Well before the WWW and all driven by mainframe and a small box attached to 10 modems called “Horatious”.

    • It’s a green fantasy because not all jobs can be worked from home. No amount of “telecommuting systems” is going to enable people to build roads, bridges, and buildings from home. Nor to mine resources (coal, gold, lithium, etc), Farm, or any other labor intensive task or tasks that involve dealing with the public (service industry). Even in the white collar office setting, it’s not always convenient or efficient to have everyone working from home, depending on the kind of work being done (for example, if your office requires the use of specialize/proprietary equipment or extremely tight security, working from home might not be an viable option).

      So while it’s true more people could work from home than normally do, they’re still only a fraction of the workforce.

      • I agree however, that’s their goal. To shut it all down. And somehow magic pixie dust will create everything else, or it simply comes from China. The UK are importing workers form Eastern Europe to fill jobs in the UK BECAUSE of lockdown. INSANE!

        Well, I work in the office and I travel every day (Someone has to be the “test dummy” during COVID-19. Not really it suited my circumstances). I see cops every day on the streets and on trains and I am not challenged (I worked for Australian NSW Police before). So, yet again, it is 90% media hype!

        • Here in the US, folks can travel if they want, they just have few if any places to visit when they get there. Museums closed. Theaters closed. Up in Vegas they really gotta be hurting with the casino shut down. I can’t imagine how Nevada and the City of Las Vegas is going to close huge budget holes from the casino shutdowns (now going past 2 months and cancelling major conventions that bring in business travel) without massive government worker layoffs.

          Here in Arizona the summer tourism industry will get decimated if the Grand Canyon National Park and the Lodges there remain closed. As far as the people with big money to spend, the big golf resorts have remained open through the March-April season as high paying guests have still come and stayed at Tucson and Phoenix resorts just no one is going on dining out at restaurants. They just imposed “social distancing” requirements on foursomes and everyone golf carts. But things like Kartchner Caverns are closed, and Tombstone really is ghost town now.

          • The hospitality industry mainly cannot be done at home and is one of the most impacted. Healthcare is another industry that has been hard hit. From February to March over 170,000 healthcare workers lost their jobs nationally. It’s certainly much worse now.

            Since you live in Arizona (I’m in Colorado) I wonder what you might think about why Arizona cases and deaths are 3 times lower than Colorado’s. Colorado’s winter tourism, major international airport in Denver, could have created a large initial pulse of infections that has just persisted. But Arizona has a higher population and very similar demographics.

            I wonder what role the warmer weather, with people getting greater sun exposure might have had.

          • Joel and scissor.
            Here in Australia the borders was closed to chinese on February 1st and to all on March 15th.
            On March 2 many wealthy Australians attended a cocktail party in Aspen.
            Many attendees of the party returned to Australia on March 13.
            A significant portion of Australian covid cases are tied to this party.

      • Having said that, WFH will be the norm for those who can BECAUSE companies can save vast amounts of money! Hey, IBM did it in the UK in the 80’s/90’s. HP did it with EDS in Aus in 2009.

        And then there were the “Ooops” moments. Meaning “Oooops” we have customers that pay for a service. That’s been eroded with COVID-19 as it is all about being “safe” and “saving lives”. Next, saving the planet!

      • I worked in IT for close to 40 years. After 9/11 we stopped traveling when we installed new systems. We wrote new software and became very adept at monitoring systems and solving problems remotely with a bunch of people on the phone. We cut travel and trips to the office at night and on weekends to solve problems. However, we found the mundane day-to-day activities when designing and building software required face to face communications and whiteboard sessions. We did telecommute but found that when we were in the office we got more work done for the time spent. The Millennials seem to think they are the first generation to encounter and solve every issue. They will find that working from home is feasible, but offices can increase productivity just because everyone is available in one place at the same time. Yes, there are many tools available for home offices, but people are people and they are not always glued to their desk in the home office.

        • Been in “IT” since 1983, “Millennials” IMO just want to be at home (With mom), paid to be there, but not actually DO ANYTHING productive!

          I dunno, I could be biased but what my eyes see do not lie.

          • I’m not a millennial and I’d love to be paid to be home but not actually do anything productive. Sign me up! 😉 Unfortunately where I work, I have to come to the office. WFH isn’t a viable option for security reasons. At least my commute has been a joy with everyone else off the roads.

        • I agree. I’m only at the 30 years in IT mark, and am like so many under house arrest. Productivity home vs office varies. Much is accomplished in the support team by means of overhearing conversations or very quick questions across the partitions. That doesn’t work with everyone at home. Sometimes being at home is good for writing documents, being away from the office clamour, but difficult decisions that would take 30 minutes with a whiteboard and the right people can instead get dragged out over many phone calls and emails. I can’t wait to have the choice of office vs home again, the current compulsion is tiresome.

        • I’m in software development and my company has offices all over the globe. It’s typical to assemble teams from various offices. For us the criteria is who’s the best person who’s available, not where do they work. As a result I am rarely co-located with those that I work with. It’s not at all unusual for me to be the only person on my team, who is in my building.
          For me, the only difference has been my commute time and the dress code.

        • “However, we found the mundane day-to-day activities when designing and building software required face to face communications and whiteboard sessions. ”

          Build a VR office and you won’t need a physical one. The tech will need another decade to really replace face-to-face work, but it’s coming.

          The big problem I’m having with working from home is knowing what the heck everyone else is doing. If we were working on a single project it wouldn’t be so bad, but with half a dozen of us working on three or four different projects it’s much easier to be able to look past the monitor and ask people whether they’re working on my project today or someone else’s.

        • For years my husband and I took turns going back to the office at night for things like grant applications and deadlines of other sorts. Even when laptops appeared, you just got more done away from all the distractions of the house – children, phone, and all the things that need doing. How many people have a home big enough to get away from constant activities around you? I would bet that all the people endorsing WFH have no kids.

          • “FranBC April 29, 2020 at 2:10 pm

            I would bet that all the people endorsing WFH have no kids.”

            Totally! Or cannot separate worklife from homelife. If there is no separation, it does not work.

            The people I work with who are now forced to WFH, who have family, say one thing when they get to the office; “I am so glad to be out of the home and in the office!”

      • Of those who can work from home, a big chunk of them are users of their beloved mass transit. They drive their cars a maximum of five miles to the nearest Amtrak, BART, etc. station. (If there is a mass transition of those workers, those systems will go even further into the hole. Even here in Tucson, I have noticed that the bus system has dropped most of their “express” trips, down to a single round trip a day for many of them.)

      • Robots will be sent out, controlled by people who work from home, to do these things. Then after that, robots, controlled by robots who work from home…

    • I see some start-ups are using the virtual, everyone remote strategy. It make sense financially because of overhead cost saving and because they can recruit talent from anywhere in the world. All the employees need is a reliable, fast internet connection.

    • @ Patrick MJD

      Not at all a “green fantasy”. It makes sense from a business perspective in the sense a company can “offload” operating expenses to employees.

      Nothing new about the above, its been in practice for the past 150 years.

      OH MY, ….. it must be true about ….. “history repeating itself”.

      In my parents and grandparents time they did most of their ”shopping” via mail order and the Sears Roebuck Catalogue.

      Well, surprise, surprise, …… now days more n’ more people are doing most of their ”shopping” via their PC and far away distributors like Amazon.

      Ordered from home and delivered to home.

      • “In my parents and grandparents time they did most of their ”shopping” via mail order and the Sears Roebuck Catalogue.”

        Most of their shopping? I don’t think so. Maybe some of it, for some clothes or whatever was in the catalog, but no way was it “most”. They weren’t getting groceries through Sears.

          • A bit inaccurate – but also accurate. Most of your groceries were also delivered – produce, eggs, cheese, the spice and sugar wagon came by about once a month in most areas. All of that (except for the spice and sugar man) was from very local sources, though.

            All of that was before my time – except that I remember my pride when as a child, I was first trusted to take a glass milk bottle back out to the crate to be picked up the next morning. (Magic! Empty bottles one day, filled the next!) We still had a local dairy back then, up one of the side canyons just out of town. Milk, butter, eggs, cream (and sour cream) all came from there, not from the stores in town.

            They didn’t make cheeses, though. One of the treats of my early years was homemade macaroni and cheese – you had to get both of those from the warehouse down by the tracks that also supplied the restaurants.

            I was eight years old before I encountered my first supermarket (in El Paso – they had a hell of a time getting me out of the automatic doors…). We didn’t have one in my town until just before I entered high school in the mid-70s.

            Oh, I remember that my grandparents got their gardening seeds by mail order (Burpee catalog).

          • Back in the early 60’s in then rural Western Connecticut, our milk was delivered by a local dairy and eggs delivered by a local poultry farmer, who also was the town’s First Selectman (like a mayor). When we drove to Danbury to the one supermarket, we drove past a goat farm.

          • Jeff Alberts – April 29, 2020 at 11:32 pm

            Most of their shopping? I don’t think so. Maybe some of it, for some clothes or whatever was in the catalog, but no way was it “most”. They weren’t getting groceries through Sears.

            Now Jeffy, you need to start putting your mind “in gear” before putting your mouth “in motion”.

            By 1894, the Sears catalog had grown to 322 pages, including many new items such as sewing machines, bicycles, sporting goods, and automobiles. By1895, the company was producing a 532-page catalog. ……… By 1896, dolls, stoves, and groceries had been added to the catalog.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears

            And even houses were included in the Sears Cataloggue. One could order a “pre-cut” house from Sears-Roebuck and it would be shipped by train, with all parts labeled and ready for assembly. There is a large, 2-story Sears house on the same street I live on.

            @ Patrick MJD – April 30, 2020 at 12:01 am

            Agree. Samuel C Cogar April 29, 2020 at 3:15 pm comment is odd.

            Patrick, ….. me thinks you and Jeffy “think alike”, …. to wit:

            a company can “offload” operating expenses to employees.”

            Nothing new about the above, its been in practice for the past 150 years.”

            Patrick, ….. manufacturers and/or producers have contracted “travelling salesmen” since the late 1700’s and they were only paid “a commission” if and when they sold something. Travel, food and lodging was the “salesman’s” problem.

            And “thank you”, …..Writing Observer, ….. for your knowledgeable and kind response.

        • Ever hear of “milkmen”? People use to get milk delivered right to their door. They’d even had a “milk box” (kinda like a mailbox for milk) sitting next to the door for the milkman to put the delivery of milk filled glass bottles and from which he would take away the empty glass bottles. My Uncle was still getting his milk delivered (though not by Sears specifically) at least as late as the 1970s before he moved out of state in the early 80s.

          Milk wasn’t the only grocery item that was specially delivered in years gone by, as others pointed out. and yes, much of it you actually could order from the Sears catalogue (Sears actually started out as a mail-order watch company, just as Amazon started out selling books online – Sears very much was the Amazon of it’s day).

          Once upon a time, pretty much anything that could be sold, you have a good chance of finding it in the Sears catalogue, including houses (From 1908 to 1940, Sears sold between 70,000 to 75,000 homes.), “Patent medicines” – dubious elixirs that claimed to cure whatever ailed you, Automobiles (the Sears Motor buggy only $395 in 1909 with speeds up to 25 mph), animals (horses, donkeys, baby chickens, etc.), eye glasses, and yes, even groceries were all available at one time or another in the catalogue. All delivered to your home address beginning in 1896 (when free rural postal delivery was introduced in the United States).

          So, in short, there was once a time you could actually do most all of your shopping from Sears, just like today where you could do most all of your shopping from Amazon, if you were so inclined.

          • @ Writing Observer 1:05 a.m. and John Endicott 7:56 p.m. I have an amusing cartoon about milk delivery in ancient times, well, when we were kids. I don’t know how to upload it here, but I could enclose it to an email. If you care for a milky smile, I look forward to receiving a line to:
            federico1931 at yahoo.com.ar
            Greetings.
            Federico Bär
            .-

  3. I would love to see a TV or Radio commercial which salutes the millions of non-essential workers who have sacrificed at the back of the line in this fight against Covid.

    Our Governor demanded stay in place so we had ample medical resources to fight. Now medical resources are being furloughed, because there is no work.

    I am firmly convinced I will get this in some form. I hope my immune system is up to the task, but this is not living.

    • Yep. Particularly since much of that sacrifice, outside of a few major cities, was unnecessary.

      I’d be satisfied with a salute to farmers, ranchers, food service workers from meat packing plants to fast food to grocery store workers and truckers.

      I fully realize that a salute to the people that kept the lights on and gas pumps running is beyond the capacity of most people.

          • Yeah…like what would have happened if we had a real emergency? Late spring ice storm, or just a cascading grid failure that knocks out the power widespread for a few days/week and then there would be some real consternation. With the exception of the diseased and deceased that really suffered, the rest of us got off relatively lightly, major inconveniences notwithstanding. Now we will suffer economically, especially if there is some type of ‘new normal’ to come of all this.

        • And the refrigerators, stoves and washing machines repaired and working.

          If the commercials are to be believed, the poor, lonely Maytag repairman has been practicing social distancing since 1967!

    • And in my state, the Guvernator was petitioned to allow elective surgery now because of the more than plentiful resources and to get people back to work. He refused.

    • “I am firmly convinced I will get this in some form. I hope my immune system is up to the task, but this is not living.”

      The new treatment Remdesivir is looking pretty good according to reports today. Dr. Seigle says it definitely makes the patient better than one who doesn’t take it, after looking at results from this trial. He also said it appeared that the key to treatment is to treat the patient as soon as possible.

      Now, there are fears that even a benign infection will cause damage to the human body, possibly permanently, so it may turn out that everyone who gets this virus needs to be treated as soon as possible in order to minimize the damage by minimzing the time the virus is in the body.

      It looks like we may have at least one effective treatment for Wuhan virus. The stock market is up about 400 points supposedly due to the news about Remdesivir.

  4. chicom19 and other varieties.
    The name is not recognised by any scientist other than by assumption.
    There is a perfectly good scientifically known name with the same number of syllables – covid19 which all will recognise. Why not use it? Obviously you use the ludicrous chicom19 name in an attempt to stir up hatred for the Chinese.

    All intelligent people know where it originated.

    In a gun toting country which needs to be told that the POTUS is wrong suggesting they drink/inject disinfectant and to do so will kill/damage themselves (and some apparently still turn up at hospital having drunk bleach!!).
    Do YOU really want to enrage these bleach drinking NRA believers against an innocent Chinese population.

    Chinese Americans have already suffered being spat at and worse – how long before the first second amendment bullet finds its way into the back of an innocent Chinese American? Or how long before a Tesla factory gets bombed because they dare open a factory in China?

    Racial hatred is not to be trifled with!

    • Sorry, Goalfart, your hero, the lady who was in the hospital in Arizona, and her husband that died, after they drank chlorquine fish tank cleaner, is now under investigation for murdering her husband and drinking a small amount to give herself some symptoms to cover up her crime. Typical Democrat!

      • There was nothing in my comments about the ineffectual chloroquine it was about trumps suggestions of investigating breach and uv light internally.

        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8255701/NY-poison-control-center-records-spike-numbers-people-calling-bleach-disinfectant.html

        Maryland emergency hotline gets 100 calls and New York poison control center records soaring numbers of people calling about ingesting bleach after President Trump touted it as a potential ‘cure’

        Over 100 people called an emergency hotline in Maryland about disinfectant
        New York poison control saw the number of calls double from usual to about 30
        Many who called were asking about the benefits of consuming disinfectant
        Trump raised the possible treatments at Thursday’s White House press briefing
        He spoke after a Homeland Security official revealed the results of tests that showed sunlight and UV rays helped kill the coronavirus

    • Ghalfrunt, maybe you should stop watching CNN and actually watch the President before you make a fool out of yourself with your comments. President Trump did not say to drink disinfectants or bleach. To me he sounded like an intelligent leader trying to get his staff thinking at a brainstorming session. He just was throwing out ideas to generate thought. I know you progressives have a hard time with original thought and can only recite the NYT talking points, but the President actually was showing some leadership.

      As for your rant on the 2nd Amendment, you won’t find NRA members shooting innocent people. But you will find illegal Chinese immigrants in the US who entered the country during the pandemic. Take your rants somewhere else.

      • Yes, Trump did not say to drink bleach, but the fact that he said out loud “can’t we…” instead of “its too bad we can’t….” shows that real estate moguls shouldn’t shoot from the hip on topics of which their knowledge is less than their mother taught the average child.

      • Like most socialists, gfront doesn’t do direct data. He waits for his handlers to tell him what to think.

        • It may surprise you, but it’s possible to love free markets AND consider it highly likely that Trump is senile.

          I doubt anyone genuinely believes The Donald thinks you can or should inject some household detergent, but exactly what was he trying to say?

          And then trying to walk it back by saying he was being “sarcastic”?

          The man is getting more incoherent by the day, but is too narcissistic to keep his mouth shut. And his die-hard supporters are too narcissistic to admit his mind is gone because they think it reflects badly on their choosing to vote for him back in 2016.

          And Biden’s senility is worse, if anything. What a great choice is being presented the American voter this Autumn!

          Just as well the Deep State are actually running everything, eh?

          • The man is getting more incoherent by the day, but is too narcissistic to keep his mouth shut.

            And if he kept his mouth shut, ……you would be claiming he was too stupid to say anything.

            It doesn’t matter one damn bit what Trump says, …. a derangement afflicted lefty liberal will “drag” his words through a “bucket of Democrat feces” before misquoting most every word he uttered.

      • Trying to Play Nice April 29, 2020 at 4:34 am
        I live in UK. You, I expect, would be horrified at the comments on most news channels about the lies and stupidity of statements made by the POTUS.

        You suggest that his comments about getting strong light or UV inside a body to attack a virus resident in the blood and particularly in the delicate lungs helped any self respecting virologist to think outside the box.
        You also suggest that his comments about using disinfectant inside a body to attack a virus resident in the blood and particularly in the delicate lungs helped any self respecting virologist to think outside the box.

        NO VIROLOGIST would even entertain such suggestions. They know that the simplest way to destroy the virus is to attack the lipid layer. They know many things I do not on how to attract the RNA coding in the virus. There are many thousand such scientists working on ways to combat the virus or to force the body to recognise the virus and kill it. Do they NEED suggestions of using bleach or UV inside the body?

        Why did the POTUS not show leadership when the WHO first warned of an epidemic in January, Why did the POTUS not start provisioning the stocks required by health care, Why did the POTUS suggest that masks were being sold on the black market by health care workers – does he not realise that treating a patient requires a change of gloves, mask, gown, for each visit to prevent the spread of infection to others.

        • POTUS did not suggest ‘comments about getting strong light or UV inside a body to attack a virus resident in the blood and particularly in the delicate lungs’.

          Here’s the transcript of Acting Undersecretary Bill Bryan’s remarks immediately preceding Pres Trump’s comments on April 23rd that created this firestorm.

          “And, Mr. President, while there are many unknown links in the COVID-19 transmission chain, we believe these trends can support practical decision making to lower the risks associated with the virus.

          If I can have my next slide.

          And when that — while that comes up, you’ll see a number of some practical applications. For example, increasing the temperature and humidity of potentially contaminated indoor spaces appears to reduce the stability of the virus. And extra care may be warranted for dry environments that do not have exposure to solar light.

          We’re also testing disinfectants readily available. We’ve tested bleach, we’ve tested isopropyl alcohol on the virus, specifically in saliva or in respiratory fluids. And I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus in five minutes; isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in 30 seconds, and that’s with no manipulation, no rubbing — just spraying it on and letting it go. You rub it and it goes away even faster. We’re also looking at other disinfectants, specifically looking at the COVID-19 virus in saliva.

          This is not the end of our work as we continue to characterize this virus and integrate our findings into practical applications to mitigate exposure and transmission. I would like to thank the President and thank the Vice President for their ongoing support and leadership to the department and for their work in addressing this pandemic. I would also like to thank the scientists, not only in S&T and the NBACC, but to the larger scientific and R&D community.

          Thank you very much.

          THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Bill.

          THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. So I asked Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too. It sounds interesting.

          ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: We’ll get to the right folks who could.

          THE PRESIDENT: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.

          So we’ll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute, that’s — that’s pretty powerful.”

          Trump is clearly posing a rhetorical question to Undersecretary Bryan, “is there a way we can do something like that…” he is not suggesting that people inject/injest household disinfectants.

          Ironically there is ‘a way’ to do something similar in the lungs. My wife has lung damage caused by aspiration of an iron pill that left her with a severely damaged lower bronchial tube opening that was almost blocked by scar tissue. She was subject to frequent infections and, due to the small opening, was unable to get the mucus out via coughing. She had repeated bronchoscopies in which they ‘washed’ that area of the lung with antibacterial ‘disinfectants’. This is exactly the way the Interventional Pulmonologist described it to us.

          • I agree Bill

            The president asked questions in regard to UV and disinfectant, I heard and now have read what he said.

            The media yet again attacking trump. Completely unwarranted witch hunt.

          • Verbatim Trump:
            https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-coronavirus-press-conference-transcript-april-23

            https://www.ft.com/content/e6f53b73-2fd4-486d-a24b-fa4e050ddc39

            Donald Trump claimed his suggestion cleaning products should be tested as a sarcasm or was it as you suggested an outside the box suggestion to the virologists to test.

            see the transcript
            also

            https://www.ft.com/content/e6f53b73-2fd4-486d-a24b-fa4e050ddc39
            coronavirus treatment was a sarcastic comment intended to provoke reporters, insisting he knew disinfectants should only be used to sanitise skin.“I was asking a question sarcastically to reporters like you just to see what would happen,” Mr Trump said from the Oval Office on Friday. “[Disinfectant] does kill it, and it would kill it on the hands, and it would make it much better.”The attempt to deflect criticism came after the US president sparked consternation among makers of household cleaners and the medical community by publicly asking his scientific advisers to test the idea of a disinfectant “injection” or irradiating the body with ultraviolet light to treat coronavirus.

            From the verbatim link he still suggests masks are being sold by nursing staff:
            Donald Trump: (49:09)
            We’ve made millions of masks. We have ordered millions of masks that have arrived and been distributed. We gave one hospital in New York City 300,000 masks. Before the virus, they were using 10,000 and now we got them 300,000, and they got rid of them very quickly, which I sort of say, how did that happen? Why? Because they became very valuable, the masks. So I say, how did that happen?

            1 mask 1 visit to a patient. next patient new mask go back to 1st patien – new mask required = very very many masks required.

          • You also need to see the video of the press conference to see the reaction of the female virologist, Dr Birx , her expression says it all!

            There is no hint of sarcasm here

          • “The media yet again attacking trump. Completely unwarranted witch hunt.”

            I woke up this morning to see a new political commercial on tv showing Trump saying disjointed sentences during the “disinfectant” news conference, and the commercial tries to make it apear that Trump is promoting disinfectant and are trying to make him look as dumb as possible. The way they manipulate the audio and video, they make him look like a stumbling Joe Biden.

            It was early and I didn’t notice who paid for the commercial. I’m sure it will be back on in the near future.

            More lies from the Left. Lies are the only thing they have. Although I suppose it could have been a “Never-Trumper” group. Not much difference. Both groups are wallowing in false realities.

    • I used to call it Covid19, but after reading your bizarre loony rant, I’m switching to Chicom19.

      Nice work.

    • “In a gun toting country which needs to be told that the POTUS is wrong suggesting they drink/inject disinfectant and to do so will kill/damage themselves (and some apparently still turn up at hospital having drunk bleach!!).”

      …this is a total fabrication of the left….and a flat out lie

      ever wonder why you can buy deadly poisonous clorox…right off the shelf….at any grocery?

      …because even the government knows anyone that stupid deserves to die

    • Read those reports about bleach more closely. The facts are the calls to poison centers increased but no actually poisonings.

      The lady who originally blamed Trump for her and her husband drinking fish-tank cleaner is now under arrest for the murder of her husband. The early stories reflect the woman’s claims and were heavy promoted to embarrass Trump. The truth is now out. Unfortunately, nobody ever updates old stories once the facts are known.

    • “In a gun toting country which needs to be told that the POTUS is wrong suggesting they drink/inject disinfectant and to do so will kill/damage themselves (and some apparently still turn up at hospital having drunk bleach!!)”

      That’s just flat-out dishonest on your part, ghalfrunt. Trump’s actual words were posted on this website not two days ago and I’m sure you read them, so that makes you deliberately dishonest.

      And this is just another example of a debunked lie told about Trump continuing to be used by the Left as though it was the truth. The truth doesn’t matter to the Left. If a lie will work, they will use it.

      You’re in bad shape when you have to use an easily debunked lie to make a point.

      And I don’t think David is using Chicom-19 to generate hate against the Chinese people, he is just pointing out who is to blame for all the problems we are experiencing: The ChiComs, the Chinese communist leadership. The origin of the problem should be pointed out at every occasion especially when the origin is denying they are the problem.

      Don’t you love how the Chinese leadership is trying to bully everyone. Their arrogance is poking through. Things have changed.

    • It really is sad when hatred causes one critical faculties to short circuit.
      1) One constant with all socialists, they define anything they don’t like as hatred. That excuses their innate desire to hate anyone who isn’t like them.
      2) What’s this fascination with guns? Why do you assume that anyone who is willing to take care of themselves must be inferior to you?
      3) Once again, anything Trump says must be interpreted in the worst possible light, even if that interpretation makes no sense.
      4) Projection, the socialist assumes that anyone who isn’t like him is so filled with hatred that it only takes a small nudge for them to fly into homicidal rages.
      5) Racial hatred isn’t to be trifled with, that’s why we must open gulags for anyone who doesn’t believe as gfront does.

      • “What’s this fascination with guns?”

        You can’t impose communism on people who own lots of guns.

        The ‘elite’ have hated guns since they became cheap enough for everyone to have one. They’d much rather go back to the days when only the ‘elite’ could afford swords, horses and armour that made them almost unbeatable on the battlefield by anyone except the other ‘elite’.

        Plus leftist men have low testosterone.

    • I’m an evidence guy when it comes to paradigms, not emotions, when it comes to things tribal.

      And the evidence clearly right now is on the Left too stupid not to self-dose things like Lysol or fish-tank chloroquine. To wit:
      “Woman Who Ingested Fish Tank Cleaner Is Prolific Donor to Democratic Causes
      Arizona woman who accidentally poisoned her husband donated to ‘pro-science resistance’ PAC, among others”
      https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/woman-who-ingested-fish-tank-cleaner-was-prolific-donor-to-democratic-causes/

      Maybe you should re-evaluate your paradigm of which tribe the majority the stupid voters exist… based on evidence?

    • @ghalfrunt

      Around here, folks don’t insult us gun-toting rednecks. An armed society is a polite society.

      • you are so right
        (CNN)A security guard at a Family Dollar store in Flint, Michigan, was shot and killed after telling a customer to wear a state-mandated face mask, police said.
        Calvin Munerlyn, 43, died at a local hospital after he was shot in the head Friday, said Michigan State Police Lt. David Kaiser.
        The shooter and a second suspect remain at large, Kaiser told CNN on Monday.

        Witnesses at the store told police that Munerlyn got into a verbal altercation with a woman because she was not wearing a mask, said Genesee County prosecutor David Leyton. Surveillance video confirms the incident, Leyton said.
        Under an executive order from Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, all retail employees and customers have to wear a mask.
        Footage also shows that immediately after the altercation, the woman left in an SUV.
        But about 20 minutes later, the SUV returned.
        Two men entered the store and one of them yelled at Munerlyn about disrespecting his wife, Leyton said. The other man then shot the security guard.

        This should calm things down!!!!!!!!!!!!1

    • Hi ghalfrunt,

      Drinking “bleach” is something pretty much everyone in the developed world does. Chlorination of public drinking water is kind of a big deal. You might want to read about the human history of disease and death before chlorination.

      All intelligent people know where the virus originated, but there are plenty of unintelligent people out there…like you, for example.

    • That struck me too. “Communist Chinese virus” indeed. It’s the first time I’ve heard it has political awareness.

      • You are dishonest like Nancy Pelosi who said Trump told people to put Lysol on their wounds.

        What is wrong with you people? Is this a mental disorder or do you lie for living?

        • “What is wrong with you people? Is this a mental disorder or do you lie for living?”

          It’s both.

        • Tons of ’em are paid trolls and astroturfers. Paid by outfits like Media Matters, 350.org, or Open Society in addition to the really cloaked ones you’ll never hear of. Some are paid by the hour, some by the post, some by the number of blogs they start little riots on.

          They’re easy to spot because in any given week most of ’em are using similar terminology that their BotLords have decreed is the New Narrative. Don’t feed ’em energy and they quickly seek happier hunting grounds.

          • Both the Chinese and the Russians have been hiring trolls to both disrupt groups they view as not friendly to themselves and to spread disinformation favorable to their governments.

          • Exactly, they thrive on comments, likes, etc, they die without out
            So lets all please help this troll off the planet.

            Just another disease, people like this

      • Communist sub-human barbaric “wet market” or Communist incompetently managed Level 4 Biohazard lab… Take your pick.

        • The were probably working with growing and propagating bat colony virus isolates in BSL-3. Animal experiments would have been in BSL-4 where aerosolization would be high. THis is probably what was happening, and how it escaped IMO. Which is why the Chinese do not want Western virology experts to come in and interview the staff there and find where the bat colony corona viruses were being cultured (virological studies under which protocol, and how strictly were they following written procedures, training of the workers, attitudes of managers, etc).

          Still I can tell you from spending a year growing clinical isolates (community gathered, fully virulent) H3N2 and H1N1 flu viruses in cell cultures, the virions at those extremely high titers, even under careful controlled conditions gets on everything. In BSL2 and 3, one simple fomites carried virus mis-step outside of containment would be easier than most people realize. And with SARS-CoV-2 apparent asymptomatic shedding phase a lunch or dinner in the Wuhan market or nearby cafe by that Case 0 worker would have all it would have that was needed to appear as if the virus originated there.

  5. Funny how you never hear the governors talk about “Flattening the Curve” anymore. That was so Last Month.

    Just getting people accustomed to socialism:
    – getting 10’s of millions hooked on government assistance
    – stores with long aisles of empty shelves
    – cheap gas now, but when the over supply stockpiles in tank farms start drawing down, then bam!! Quite predictable the jerkback up will hit hard and fast. Especially when entire States have shut-in production like the Bakken fields in North Dakota.
    – Trump has already having to use federal wartime powers to keep meat packing plants open. With restaurants essentially demanding a small fraction of what meat Americans normally consume the oversupply is building there too just like it has in fuel stocks and petroleum reserves. The Greens couldn’t be happier about what that means in a year or so.

    Here in sunny Arizona we have a GOP governor, Doug Ducey, who apparently has his head up in someplace the sun doesn’t shine.

    As David pointed out, the Lockdowns, the business closures haven’t kept the virus from devastating nursing homes. Same here in Arizona, which is where the big mortality spikes are here, just like everywhere else. Apparently no one told Governor Ducey that people in long-term care nursing homes, like Alzheimers sufferers don’t go restaurants and cafes and get corona virus. It likely walks in with the employees since most have banned outside visors or enacted severe distancing requirements. Yet I can’t go out and a cold beer at my favorite tap room. And many small businesses may never re-open even if the closures lift tomorrow. But the big chains, no problem.

    About ready to go join the protests. This is long past being about the virus.

    • As he always has (now from the grave), George Carlin pretty well sums up what is going on, whether its lava in the living room in Hawaii, or plastics, to Save the Planet, to now viruses, the Government is just trying to figure how far they can push us.

      https://youtu.be/JSbT7JVNEU4

    • I see the UN and WHO’s prints all over this. Isn’t it curious that the ONLY food system that’s profoundly affected is MEAT packing? That happens to be foreign-owned? NO shortage I’ve seen of Frosted Flakes, Devil Dogs, Coca-Cola or Crispy Creme–just the ONE item that the WHO would like to eliminate completely in the name of “Save the Planet” tm. Remember the EAT-LANCET diet? The one that allows you 1/5 of an egg per week’s worth of protein, unless you can catch some crickets? They’re trying to make it happen NOW! Personally I think this whole media-fired hysteria trip is UN Agenda 21 psy-ops. Who knew Americans were such SHEEP?

      Gates and Bloomberg in charge of “testing” pretty much proves my theory. Positive test will go from “locked in your house” to “get in the boxcar” pretty quickly. Depopulate the herds, wot?!

      • “Who knew Americans were such SHEEP?”

        Americans cooperate when they think it is in their interests, like now, by trying to stop the spread of a virus that could affect all of us.

        When the authorities overstep their bounds, Americans are hardly sheep, as you can see from your tv set. People in States where the governors have gone overboard are out protesting and suing the various governments and are winning their case. Illinois’ governor went over the top and got sued and the judge stopped the governor’s order yesterday.

        Democracy in action. Freedom in action. Our leaders don’t have the power to take away constitutional rights, other than in a “Martial Law” environent, and if they do, the citizens have legal means to fight back and they do and they win.

    • Thank you David for your sensible posts. You wrote above:
      “In Dallas County, about 40% of the fatalities “have been associated with long-term care facilities.” Locking down the economy didn’t help these people. Locking it down tighter, faster of for a longer period of time wouldn’t have helped them either.”

      The story is similar all over the world – old and/or infirm folks in long-term care are being killed off in droves – and younger healthier people are typically not being severely harmed by Covid-19 – but the unnecessary “full Gulag” lock-down is hurting them – beaucoup.

      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/18/whats-causing-job-loss/#comment-2972288

      There is increasing evidence that this Covid-19 illness is not that different from other virus flu’s and milder than many – it barely touches the young and healthy – many are asymptomatic – and it is high-risk to the elderly and unwell.

      Therefore, it makes little sense to lock-down and over-protect the low-risk population and under-protect the high-risk, which is what has been done – a huge percentage of deaths are in old-age homes.
      .AND.
      The economy has been trashed in this incompetent process, and many young people ‘s lives have been damaged/destroyed by throwing them overnight into unemployment and poverty.

      Attaboys all around for this gross over-reaction/under-reaction to this almost-average flu.

      Told you so five weeks ago.

      https://rosebyanyothernameblog.wordpress.com/2020/03/21/end-the-american-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-12253
      [excerpt- posted 21Mar2020]

      “This full-lockdown scenario is especially hurting service sector businesses and their minimum-wage employees – young people are telling me they are “financially under the bus”. The young are being destroyed to protect us over-65’s. A far better solution is to get them back to work and let us oldies keep our distance, and get “herd immunity” established ASAP – in months not years. Then we will all be safe again.”

      • The Spanish Flu of 1918 killed many young soldiers and 20’s somethings, living in cramped, close quarters tents and barracks. This SARS-2 is not generally killing young people. The statistics on that are quite clear.

        That’s what makes this worse than Flu, because many, if not ALL, of those elderly patients in nursing home care living facilities AND the workers there (annual Flu-vaccine is required pre-condition for maintaining employment at those facilities as it is almost universally required by health professionals and staff) received the influenza vaccine, thus mitigating (but not eliminating) seasonal flu transmission there.

        • Hi Joel,

          Seasonal flu vaccines are formulated to target the suspected-worst 3 or 4 flu’s and sometimes completely miss the most serious flu’s that actually strike – see the flu death toll in winter 2017-18 for an example.

          If we wanted to truly protect seniors in long-term care from Covid-19, their care-givers would have to be locked-down on-site for the duration – failing to do that was a guarantee of high mortality in these homes.

          We could have done that for nickels and dimes, instead of locking down the entire low-risk population and trashing the economy.

          Best personal regards, Allan

          • Allan in the UK old folk in homes are at least 1/3rd of total deaths, it has taken till now to publicly announce this and add the deaths of old folks to the daily list of daily deaths.

            Raab yesterday when questioned about this said the private and public sector who have responsibility for care of the elderly were informed as early as January that a pandemic was likely, yet nothing was done to isolate these vulnerable old folk.

            The UK repurposed and fitted out various buildings to cope with the pandemic, ( not built from new as they would have people believe) called nightingale hospitals, to date they are not being used or have a few token patients, my point is why the hell did they not start to move vulnerable old folk into them, at no point has the conventional NHS hospitals been overwhelmed.

          • BD:
            The UK’s management of the elderly and the poor during Covid-19 was even worse than you suggest. It’s as if they wanted to eliminate the elderly and the poor…

            https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/22/the-pandemic-cardinal-numbers-no-one-talks-about/#comment-2974344

            In Europe, Total Deaths from All Causes peaked in week 14, the week of 30Mar2020-5Apr2020.
            https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

            Dr. Malcolm Kendrick, a Scottish physician, wrote:
            https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/04/21/the-anti-lockdown-strategy/
            [excerpt[
            “Unfortunately, it seems that COVID-19 has infected everyone involved in healthcare management and turned their brains into useless mush.

            [In my view, if we had any sense, we would lockdown/protect the elderly, and let everyone else get on with their lives].

            However, the hospitals themselves have another policy. Which is to discharge the elderly unwell patients with COVID directly back into the community, and care homes. Where they can spread the virus widely amongst the most vulnerable.

            This, believe it or not, is NHS policy. Still.”

      • “and younger healthier people are typically not being severely harmed by Covid-19”

        Well, we don’t know that. There is some evidence that the Wuhan virus does damage even in asymptomatic people, so even the young may have health complications from getting this virus, which attacks every organ and blood vessels in the body. Young people have been having strokes and bloodclots from Wuhan virus. Granted not a lot of them, but stokes may be only one form of damage that is being done.

        In other words, we still don’t know how dangerous this virus really is. We should not feel comfortable allowing young people to catch this virus.

  6. I know, that our kids like working from home, no hectic rush, no 45 min. back and forth each in full interurban train morning and evening. Our son likes his sunny balcony workplace, both have free timing over the day as far as they fullfill their hours to work.

  7. Until the government passes a law that requires the government and bureaucracy must be proportionately and immediately downsized to match the unemployment they are creating – they will feel no pain.

    And therefore no compunction to mitigate. (Printing money doesn’t count.)

    This pro-rata must be at all levels including senators and congressmen be furloughed on a rotational / salary downtime basis. They can share the dearth.

    Sure I’m dreaming – but wouldn’t that focus their minds to the plight of the poor schlubs who have lost their jobs.

    • I like the idea of forcing Congress to have “skin in the game.”

      GDP Growth vs Salary
      2% or less, 0% salary
      3%, 50% salary
      4%, 100% salary
      5% or more, 200% salary

      Then I would double the tax rates for Congress.

      This would incentivize GDP growth and tax cuts.

  8. There are a lot of real jobs which are not in offices!
    Offices don’t make anything.
    They’re just overhead.

      • It just intrigues me that there is a pervasive, long-standing assumption that everybody works in offices. This assumption is rarely challenged.
        Where do people think that stuff comes from?
        The world is made of stuff, not data or management.
        Most office jobs are overhead.
        Most factory work cannot be done efficiently at home.
        Most people do not work in offices.

        I thought it worth mentioning.

        • Marketing, bookkeeping, planning, purchasing, selling, at least temporary possible to work at home, including video conferencing, phone conferencing, IT service…
          You tell me nothing new, that productive jobs exist, imagine. And officejobs are necessary, not overhead. A lot of enterprises give bookkeeping out of house, so it may be done at home office without problems.

          • I didn’t say the office jobs are unnecessary, I said that they’re overhead.
            I’m not having a go at office work.
            But if you read the article, and also the comments, you’ll see the usual assumption that everyone works in an office.
            Most of us don’t. Hello? We exist. We outnumber you. We do matter.

            No offence intended.

          • May be I misunderstood the expression “overhead”.

            But if you read the article, and also the comments, you’ll see the usual assumption that everyone works in an office.
            No, I do not see that assumption, but “home office” is the threads subject. And why ?
            It’s about “Green thinking”, “Green phantasy”.
            But nevertheless, home office has advantages, even if a Green idea.

    • Try drilling an oil well without someone in an office (or home office) interpreting the geological and geophysical data to identify the prospect, lease the prospect, put together all of the government paperwork, provide the coordinates of the targets and write up the drilling procedures.

      • Try drilling an oil well without many someone’s doing the rigging, drilling, transportation of materials, etc.

        Mick’s point isn’t that office work doesn’t exist, or that it can be dispensed with altogether, but rather that not everyone works in an office (and indeed the non-office workers outnumber the office workers in the economy) and without them there would be nothing for the office workers to do (no geological and geophysical data to interpret, no prospects to identity. leases and government paper work wouldn’t be needed, nor coordinates for targets or procedures to be written up).

        Office work pretty much *is* overhead (though whether a particular office worker charges overhead for the work they’re doing or not is a matter of accounting). That doesn’t mean it’s not a necessary part of doing business. If overhead wasn’t necessary, companies would have gotten rid of it long ago.

        • David Middleton April 29, 2020 at 2:32 pm

          I can “sit the well” from the office or home more effectively than if I was out there. However, the guys on the rig have to be out there.

          https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/29/is-working-from-home-the-new-normal-or-a-green-fantasy/#comment-2981224

          What Is Overhead?
          Overhead refers to the ongoing business expenses not directly attributed to creating a product or service. It is important for budgeting purposes but also for determining how much a company must charge for its products or services to make a profit. In short, overhead is any expense incurred to support the business while not being directly related to a specific product or service.

          https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/overhead.asp

          Interpretation of the geological and geophysical data to identify the prospect, lease the prospect, put together all of the government paperwork, provide the coordinates of the targets and write up the drilling procedures are all directly related to the product or service.

        • Hence the bit in parenthesis “though whether a particular office worker charges overhead for the work they’re doing or not is a matter of accounting” and the part about if it wasn’t necessary “companies would have gotten rid of it long ago”.

          The fact remains its the guys out in the field doing the hard, productive work, not the guys sitting in the office pushing papers/typing on a keyboard. Without that hard work, there quite simply would be nothing useful for the officer workers to do. Whereas, for most businesses, without the office workers, the guys doing the hard, productive work would still have the ability to do their jobs, though they might have to pick up more of the paperwork as well. The reverse however, isn’t true. Without the ones doing the hard, productive work in the field, the office workers would quickly be without a job.

          • Without prospects to drill, the rigs would be stacked and the drilling crews would be out of work.

  9. Anybody that thinks that this is a viable way of life should read “The Machine Stops”, by E. M. Forster. There is no way that it could possibly end well.

    • In many ways, we are following in Venezuela’s footsteps. One could conclude that democrats just want to rule over the ashes.

  10. If public servants can work from home, they should be on the dole.

    • We already pay enough taxes in Aus for income welfare. COVID-19 has just increased the tax burden on the productive tax payers.

  11. Good posting, David. As a former company President, actually President of companies in four different countries, my tendency is to think that persons not needed to be in the office are, with some specific exceptions, probably not needed employees. The interaction of scientific personnel is one of the characteristics of a productive office. The biggest drop in carbon consumption was among the airlines, and that is alarming to me as I like to think I and my wife can go where ever we want at short notice. Not true now. Here’s another factor: we never seem to get the adaption to either bust or boom correctly on schedule, it’s either over-production or shortage, with associated price swings. Yogi Berras comment about predicting the future comes to mind. Day 40 of quarantine today, and yesterdayrules changed and dogs and I escaped for a one hour walk (no further than 500 meters from house, following protocol, etc). Dogs successfully remarked their territory and I enjoyed walking. Stay sane and safe.

    • Oh but if you had your own private jet, then travel at a moments notice would be without problems of airlines.

  12. As I read yesterday, the Gouvernement will start an initiative to force enterprises to offer more homejobs as there are actually.

    I know, a lot of people hope to return to normal life, certainely all, but there are surely enough who like parts of the actual way of life,

  13. Somewhat off topic…sorry, David.

    Has anyone seen stats for percentages of population with COVID 19 broken down by urban, suburban, and rural areas?

    Why am I asking? Not long before the outbreak, the Greens were pushing for everyone to live in urban areas and to use mass transportation to reduce carbon footprints. Doesn’t sound so appealing now, does it?

    No thanks…even without considering ChiCom-19, I prefer to live out in my rural little home town and drive many miles to purchase my basic needs. Why? Little to no interaction with–okay, Bob, find a nice way to put this–self-centered arseholes, which make up a majority of the population.

    Stay safe and healthy, all.
    Bob

    • Well the watermelons just got the urban subway and bus riders to wear masks to show their submission to Big Brother.
      And we know what happened to 1 use plastic bags in stores that the Greens spent a decade trying to get a few libtard states to outlaw.. they came back wherever they had been banned.

    • Has someone actually compiled that list? Not that I’ve seen. A few weeks ago,while looking at the Johns Hopkins Dashboard for the CoVid-19 in the USA, I thought I had seen that map somewhere before or at least one similar to it. After a bit of thought, I realized that the map of the USA of how people voted in the 2016 Presidential election was eerily similar.

      https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map
      https://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/

      I know that it is a coincidence that the maps are oddly alike when looking at the color representation of each, but that could be a starting point. I’m in rural Florida (yes, there places like that, it’s not all beaches and high rise hotels) in a very large county of just under 1000 sq.mi. and the county population is 53,000. The county has 13 cases of CoVid-19, zero deaths and zero hospitalizations.

  14. can’t find their way home, much less to work:

    28 Apr: District Herald: Last Festival on Earth: Dozens of Hippies Are Stuck at a Festival in Panama Due to Coronavirus (VIDEO)
    by Cassandra Fairbanks
    Dozens of hippies have been stuck at a festival in Panama for over a month after being quarantined due to the coronavirus.
    The Tribal Gathering Festival was scheduled to end on March 15, but approximately 40 people remain trapped at the site…
    As of last week, the ban on international travel in and out of the country was extended by 30 days, meaning Tribal Gathering’s remaining attendees may be trapped on the beach until the end of May,” DJ Mag reports…

    VICE VIDEO: 11m11s

    In a mini-documentary about the festival from Vice News, the attendees whined and complained that they are now stuck in “hell.”…
    “I’ve been camping on a beach for 80 days!” Doug Francisco, a circus performer and artist from Bristol, told the Guardian. He reportedly designed and led the Extinction Rebellion red brigades at last year’s protests in London, and arrived in Panama at the beginning of February. “While the festival was still going on, the police came in and tried to shut it down,” he said.

    Vice News hilariously reported that the festival was “designed to be a temporary paradise where people from western cities could learn from indigenous communities about how to rebalance society and live in symbiosis with the earth — but the earth doesn’t always play ball.”…
    https://districtherald.com/last-festival-on-earth-dozens-of-hippies-are-stuck-at-a-festival-in-panama-due-to-coronavirus/

    • “I’ve been camping on a beach for 80 days!” Doug Francisco, a circus performer and artist from Bristol, told the Guardian. He reportedly designed and led the Extinction Rebellion red brigades at last year’s protests in London, and arrived in Panama at the beginning of February.

      How exactly did he arrive in Panama? Swam?

  15. I don’t think the company would compensate me for the mortgage of a home big and high enough to fly fifi inside my living room for hours.

    Nor I have a good idea on how neighbors of a condominium home-office bound garbage incinerator might feel.

    Hey lefties, wake-up to reality. Not everyone is entitled to free money for trolling around from behind a screen.

  16. Funny how the reactions to this post are as extreme as on almost every post right now.

    The reality is that SOME jobs will become more work from home than in the past, because the experience of this sudden shift has proven successful for those types of jobs. For example, in the company I work for, a substantial number of jobs have become MORE productive (quantified) than when done mostly in the office. The reasons are simple – these are jobs where ability to focus in quiet combined with teleconferencing tools and chat applications for meeting and exchanging information has been more productive versus the old normal of constant office buzz, interruptions, water-cooler wasted time, and commute effects on actual time worked by largely salaried workers. Similar results are found in jobs like call centers (hourly), again with the ability to monitor things like call time, etc, since the calls go through the computer. For those classes of jobs, the savings to businesses will, indeed, result in some shifts.

    The OP didn’t say all jobs. But the numbers in the US could easily stretch into the millions of individuals, now that the old trust issues in certain job types have been proven to be wrong. People in some of these job classes really do waste more time in the office than working remotely and so the business gets to spend less money while getting more productivity in return.

    Of course, there will always be some bosses who refuse to use actual data and tools to understand productivity and think they have to be able to physically look over your shoulder or they assume you are goofing off. The problem in those cases is very often with the boss, not the employee.

    • + 1

      SOME jobs are more productive away from the office, this little slice into that question has been answered. Perhaps when this is over the stance of certain companies that people that work from home are non-productive is a misnomer and might be inclined to offer those people the option to work from home on a rotating basis where they were not inclined in the past. I personally would love to work from home 2 days a week, Mon and Wed. Why? Because Monday’s are typically a shitstorm and I need to have a quiet place to work. Wed simply because it is the middle of the week and I can begin prep to batten down for the weekend to come. My company is 365 24/7 and I’m damn lucky to have a job right now as the industry has been deemed “essential”.

      As for productivity monitoring–gone are the days where a boss has to fill out a paper checklist and survey their workers every hour to rate productivity in offices where most of the work is done via computer. My boss splits time between our office and another out of state, there are tools to figure out which employee is working and which isn’t the minute they log into their computer.

      For jobs that can not be remote–for whatever reason, they aren’t remote. But this idea that the only remote work to be done is to be a professional blogger is rather shortsighted. There are many, many, many jobs out there that don’t involve blogging but are done on a network all the same and incorporate an essential position within a company.

      Caveat: before I got my position that I have now–I was a blogger and I also wrote resumes–let me tell you that my 9-5 job now is a LOT LESS HOURS OF WORK than either of those two roles and it pays more with benefits and a W-2 (USA Taxes) rather than a 1099 where I owe an additional 10% of my income every year in taxes and don’t have any benefits.

    • Exactly. A little research says about 5 million US jobs just in the software development and call center positions. Consider financial analysts, marketing communications specialists, compliance, audit, most G&A jibs in general, and a host of other white collar office jobs, and the numbers start to add up to an appreciable slice of the workforce. Now add in the fact that these are the kinds of jobs that often have high concentrations of commuters around large cities because their incomes and lifestyles afford them the opportunity to lives in the suburbs, and the impact on energy usage actually could impact oil demand. Then factor in the number of outside sales folks in these industries that are discovering they can reduce (though not eliminate) travel and still close business, plus the I.S, services and implementations that are being done remotely with success, and it adds to the impact. While I haven’t done any detailed math on it (a cardinal sin on this site), I wouldn’t be surprised based on a back of the envelope guesstimate to see a 10%+ step-decrease in US transportation fuel usage after getting back to a new normal. It is nowhere near what the greens want, but it would be enough to continue to impact prices. Oddly, though, for those who no longer need to commute anymore, it could also have another side-effect of incrementally increasing demand for EVs, because the second family car might get by just fine on lower range (of course keeping the nice big SUV for the important stuff.) I am not advocating EVs- to me they are more a feel good status symbol than anything. But reduced driving need may reduce the significance of the range objection.

  17. I think the world owes the USA a great “thank you” for testing the dangers of opening up their states from lock down. It will be most instructive to see the effects or not on the deaths in those states that remove lockdown.

    No one can accurately predict the outcome of returning to normal socialising whilst covid19 is still very much in evidence. This experiment on millions of people will be most instructive.

    Thankfully the Atlantic isolates Europe from the experiment!

    • “No one can accurately predict the outcome of returning to normal socialising whilst covid19 is still very much in evidence. This experiment on millions of people will be most instructive.

      Thankfully the Atlantic isolates Europe from the experiment!”

      Yes, the United States has 50+ experiments going on right now, and we will get it all sorted out. This is a learning experience for everyone, including the authorities.

      And it looks to me like several nations in Europe are opening up. They are sending their kids back to school.

      We will all learn from each other.

    • gfront is so full of hatred for the US, that he can’t be bothered to see that many of his own countrymen are demanding that their economies open up as well.

      Our ancestors left Europe for a reason. That reason is personified by gfront.

    • Hate to break it to you, but your fellow Europeans have already begun the same experiments. The Atlantic won’t isolate you from them!

  18. a timely reminder:

    16 Dec 2019: Real Clear Energy: Madrid Climate Conference Ends in Failure
    By Rupert Darwall
    Speaking two years before the Paris climate conference, Yvo de Boer, former executive secretary of the UN climate convention, was more candid. “The only way that a 2015 agreement can achieve a 2-degree goal is to shut down the whole global economy,” he said…
    https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2019/12/16/madrid_climate_conference_ends_in_failure_110499.html

    source conveniently behind a Bloomberg paywall (for me, at least):

    4 Nov 2013: Bloomberg: Kyoto Veterans Say Global Warming Goal Slipping Away
    by Alex Morales
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-11-04/kyoto-veterans-say-global-warming-goal-slipping-away

    5 Nov 2013: Press Reader: Montreal Gazette: Climate-change veterans see goals slipping away
    ‘Only way a 2015 agreement can achieve a two-degree goal is to shut down the whole global economy’
    by Alex Morales (Bloomberg)
    “There is nothing that can be agreed in 2015 that would be consistent with the two degrees,” said Yvo de Boer, who was UNFCCC executive secretary in 2009, when attempts to reach a deal at a summit in Copenhagen crumbled with a rift between industrialized and developing nations.
    “The only way that a 2015 agreement can achieve a two-degree goal is to shut down the whole global economy.”…

    “The economic realities, the energy security realities, the poverty eradication realities, the access to energy realities are such that the main thing is to get as many countries as possible to make as bold a next step as they can without feeling threatened,” de Boer, now a special adviser on climate change to the accounting firm KPMG LLP, said by phone from Seoul. “By definition a 2015 outcome, even a brilliant one, must be inadequate, and it will lead to severe impacts.”…
    https://www.pressreader.com/canada/montreal-gazette/20131105/281788511817291

  19. The dirty little secret in my neck of the desert is that if you don’t have to have a government license to operate then your doors are open for business. The police are ignoring any stay at home orders.

    • Pathway. a state trooper friend said a number of weeks ago that they had been ordered to minimize contact with civilians but to make their presence known by increasing patrols of residential neighborhoods.

      Stay safe and healthy, all.
      Bob

    • “The dirty little secret in my neck of the desert is that if you don’t have to have a government license to operate then your doors are open for business. The police are ignoring any stay at home orders.”

      It is worth mentioning that the total number of people employed in the United States was about 160 million before the Wuhan virus. We now have about 26 million people laid off their jobs because of the Wuhan virus. So 134 million did not lose their jobs and I assume they are still working.

      A large percentage of those laid off will be collecting unemployment payments or Paycheck Protection payments to keep them solvent during the pause. I don’t know the exact percentage.

      What that amounts to is people still have a lot of money to spend as soon as the economy opens up so we should expect good things to happen as long as the virus doesn’t set us back..

        • With more people “stuck” at home, I’ve made more driving for Uber Eats and Doordash. I made $24/hour yesterday for an 8 hour period. That’s not typical, but it’s nice.

        • Even though I still have a job, I’m saving too. gas prices are way down – so less spent on gas. Work has shifted the schedule so we put the same hours into fewer days – so even less spent on gas. With less traffic on the roads (I literally have the road to myself for most of my morning commute), my gas mileage has improved and the commute actually takes less time – so even less spent on gas. All the stores and businesses that I’d normally spend money at are closed – so less money spent on non-essential goods and services as well as even less money spent on gas.

  20. The problem with ChiCom is the “Chi” bit. It refers to the place of origin.

    As is well known, there is a stigma in being known as the place of origin. Anything that highlights the place of origin encourages the authorities in the place of origin to keep quiet and hope someone else gets the blame*.

    This is disastrous. Quick action is required. Idiots who stigmatise the place of origin are encouraging mass pandemics. That is why the author of the piece is ridiculed for doing so.

    He clearly does not understand the issue. If he did he would not name the virus after the point of origin. It endangers himself, and everybody else for the next time.

    * This happened before with the Kentucky flu of 1918 that became the worst pandemic of the century under the misnomer of Spanish Flu.
    People who are worth listening to learn the lessons of history. Fools who cannot learn are ignored or ridiculed.

    • I was looking for the /sarc tag at the end of your post. Did you forget it?

      Many viruses are named after the place of origin or where first identified. Ebola, anyone? How about Marburg? No victims of Marburg blames the Germans.

      You are simply echoing ChiCom propaganda because it’s PC.

      • No, he’s echoing ChiCom propaganda because he’s a socialist/communist. Anything that “looks bad” for communists, he feels the need to fight against with whatever the latest communist propaganda is, the truth be damned.

    • You’ll have to take that up with the US government.

      CAT, Civil Air Transport
      CCP, Chinese Communist Party
      CG AFFE/ARMYEIGHT, Commanding General, Army Forces Far East, Eighth Army
      CGUSARPAC, Commanding General, United States Army, Pacific
      ChiCom, Chinese Communist
      ChiNat, Chinese Nationalist
      CHINCOM, China Committee, a permanent working group of the Paris Consultative Group of nations working to control export of strategic goods to Communist countries
      CIA, Central Intelligence Agency
      CINCFE, Commander in Chief, Far East

      https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1955-57v03/terms

      • ChiCom, Chinese Communist – That seems reasonable for describing a Chinese Communist.
        It does not have anything to do with the argument put forward by the world’s healthcare experts that I tried to explain to you.
        Last chance before people who do understand the issues go back to ignoring you.

        How does stigmatising the place of origin encourage the leadership in the place of origin to be open about it?
        (If it help you may want to play the Jeopardy theme here while you pause and try to think).

        Answer: It doesn’t!
        So stop doing it.

        I am a Climate Change Sceptic because the evidence does not stack up and the costs of acting without evidence are too high.
        I am not a Sceptic because ‘Dem guys be EEVILL’.
        The world would be a better place if more people assumed positions based on evidence and not bigoted prejudice.

        • No we understand the issue. Viruses are typically named after the place or origin or where first identified. Do you believe people in Germany feel insulted every time somebody comes down with the Marburg virus?

          We are deliberately stigmatizing the Chinese Communist government and the Chinese Communist party. We want to remind people this global pandemic is solely the fault of ChiCom government and ChiCom party.

          While I’m not in any way saying this virus was manufactured or deliberately released, it’s important to understand China started a one-sided cold war about 25 years ago.

          It’s time you quit trying to change facts by controlling what people are allowed to say or think.

        • How does stigmatising the place of origin encourage the leadership in the place of origin to be open about it?

          How does rewarding there lying and cover-up by ignoring the origin and echoing their propaganda help? (play Jeopardy theme here)

          Answer: It doesn’t!
          So stop doing it.

          I am a Climate Change Sceptic

          so? that’s irrelevant to the topic at hand. You are a self-admitted socialist/communist. Your echoing of chicom propaganda is seen by everyone here for what it is: Disingenuous at best, deliberately lying at worse. I suggest stop doing it, but I know that suggestion will fall on deaf ears, it’s always does when those ears belong to communist useful idiots.

    • “He clearly does not understand the issue. If he did he would not name the virus after the point of origin. It endangers himself, and everybody else for the next time.”

      So we need to pander to the lying Chinese leadership for our own good? How does rewarding bad behavior help the situation?

      • What I find fascinating is that the Chinese government has already behaved in the manner he fears our “stigmatizing” will force it to behave.

        Covering up and blame shifting is inherent in all bureaucracies. The bigger the government, the bigger the bureaucracy.

      • Red China’s territorial waters claim in the South China Sea endangers everyone.

        Left is 2011, right is 2016:

        Oil

        LNG

        The only significant difference between 2011 and 2016 is that the US had become far less dependent on imported oil and LNG.

    • So many baseless assumptions, it’s hard to know where to start.
      1) Even back before people were actively identifying this virus with China, the Chinese government did the very things you worry about.
      2) Most of the anger against China is because of the fact that they hid the outbreak and lied to the rest of the world about it.
      3) Accurate information is stigmatizing? Really?
      4) The only ridiculing I see are from inveterate moralizers such as yourself who believe themselves to be morally superior beings whose job it is to lecture the rest of us on proper behavior.

    • The problem with ChiCom is the “Chi” bit.

      Sorry, I know you are lying and your real problem is with the “Com” part due to your socialist/communist sympathies. But I’ll play along to show your disingenuous lie for the nonsense that it is.

      It refers to the place of origin

      And that’s a problem? Tell it to the Ebola Virus (named after it’s place of origin) West Nile virus (also names after it’s place of origin), Zika virus (You guessed it, named after it’s place of origin). and a host of other viruses. There’s a long history of naming after place of origin. But now all of a sudden it’s a problem? sorry, that’s a excuse. and a very thinly veiled one.

      As is well known, there is a stigma in being known as the place of origin…..It endangers himself, and everybody else for the next time

      Nonsense. But hiding the place of origin, that works wonder for propaganda merchants. And makes it a lot easier to sweep things under the rug. If there’s any danger its in ignoring where it came from. You can’t prevent it from happing again if you are unwilling to acknowledge where it happened in the first place (or second, third or more considering the fact this isn’t the first virus that’s come out of China or even that’s been associated with Chinese wet markets – remember SARS?).

  21. Producing something of value while sitting on the sofa at home is one hell of a stretch.

    • What is worth observing is the relationships between those who support Lockdown and what they do for a living.

      In my non peer reviewed opinion;

      Retirees – Pro Lockdown. In their defence they are also probably the group most likely at risk, but they also do not have to worry about their income stream.

      Existing Self Employed Work from Home – Your bloggers, and your content creators. Remember people, there IS a market for YouTube content. Supply/Demand. Create something people want to watch and they will pay you to keep making it. Bloggers? Less so. Youtubers? Go watch a live stream of a popular creator and watch people personally throw money at them.

      Anyway, these people were already working from home and saw no immediate disruption to their lifestyle or source of income. Hence most of them are Pro Lockdown. Amusingly some of them are starting to moan that ad revenue has been drastically slashed to about a quarter. Why? Cause why advertise things when no one is allowed to buy ‘non essential’ good. The relationship between ad revenue and the rest of the world losing their jobs doesn’t seem to have been made for some of them. When it does however…

      There is also the fact that while you CAN make a living as a youtube content creator you are still basically a free service. Supporters give cash because they want to support you. There is not binding requirement to do so. So once the supporters start to run out of disposable cash to share…

      This is an industry that exists BECAUSE conventional industry supports it. It is NOT a replacement.

      People who are still working: Some of us still go to work each day and work from work. (spoiler – I am in this group). While I am enjoying space in the carpark and the less crowded roads and ABSOLUTELY enjoying the fact I still have a cash flow, the fact I can’t do anything else when I am not at work is slowly getting to me. I can’t shop. I can’t social. I can’t go to my gym. I can’t see my friends. I can’t play sport. Is this life, or am I selfish? Open question.

      People who are now unable to work: Well not speaking to many of them directly because I don’t have a social life, but I can’t see many of them enjoying the fact they may be on welfare for the rest of the year. Your Country May Vary but here you cannot live off the dole, because you are not meant to. The government wants you to desire disposable income and wants you to desire to work in order to obtain it.

      So yeah, can’t see many of these newly unemployed wanting to extend lockdowns.

      • “the fact I can’t do anything else when I am not at work is slowly getting to me. I can’t shop. I can’t social. I can’t go to my gym. I can’t see my friends. I can’t play sport. Is this life, or am I selfish? Open question.”

        I wouldn’t say you are selfish. But you probably need to put your position in perspective. Compare your lot to a U.S. infantry man hitting the beach at Normandy during World War II, or someone who is slugging it out with the opposite side in the trench warefare of World War I. Compared to them, you don’t have it so tough. And you won’t have to spend years at it.

        My favorite saying in times of adversity is: It could be worse.

        • “Cheer Up,” they said, “Things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and they were right!

          Yes sir, things got worse.

        • And you won’t have to spend years at it.

          Only if the pro-lockdown zealots don’t have their way. There are those that are saying the chicom19 thing could go on for years if a vaccine isn’t developed (and as there’s no guarantee that such a vaccine will be successfully developed,…. well, you do the math).

  22. David: This is purely a guess on my part, but I suspect the fossil fuel least impacted by the global shutdown has been coal. All those “professional bloggers” (permanent work from home) people plus the temporary WFH office people still need power, as do the data centers they either connect to or connect through.

    So the 15% of annual coal production used to make steel is probably way down; the remainder used for electricity not so much.

    • Wouldn’t surprise me if electricity use was actually up a bit.
      100 people working in an office don’t use as much electricity as 100 people working from 100 individual housing units.
      Mitigating factors would be the number of housing units that already had someone staying at home full time.

        • Are you sure you are comparing like for like?

          April 29th was a Wed in 2020, it was a Mon in 2019. Depending on how the typical weeks energy use looks, it’s quite possible Mondays might use more energy than Wednesdays.

          What was the weather like on both days? If one was dark/rainy/dreary and the other was bright/sunny, that could effect the amount of energy being used.

          And that’s just two possible variables that could affect the results.

          In other words, you need to take into account all the other variables before you can say “not true here”, because otherwise you aren’t imparting a truth, you’re imparting an anecdote.

  23. Speaking of ‘work from home’, by chance my wife ran across this meme yesterday.

    “Tonight, I think I’ll sleep on the couch to eliminate the morning commute to work.”

  24. According to one leading indicator, the economy is picking back up.

    Before the shutdown I would reliably have 100 or more email messages in my SPAM folder every week. It hit a low of 25 per week the first couple of weeks after the shutdown. It’s been growing slowly the past couple of weeks and today’s report listed 61 SPAM messages. There is also evidence of an a shift in product mix — most of this week’s batch are offers for remote fever thermometers.

    Glad to see some people are back at work.

  25. Thank god it id 17 kilometers to my nearest bread shop. If it weren’t so far some of my neighbors may have taken to riding those damn bicycles all over the place, making the bloody awful condition of this lock down thing even more intolerable. At least I can get the sports car out 2 or 3 times a week, & go for a bit of a blast.

    Add in a trip to the doctors one week, & another to the chemist to get prescriptions filled, both 26 kilometers away, & I am even more convinced than ever that any small disadvantages of living out here in the sticks are well compensated in normal times, & even more so now.

  26. I have worked from home for years and make good money at it. It requires a large amount of self-discipline to get things done. I doubt this experiment will last very long because self-discipline is quite lacking.

    In the 1968-1969 Hong Kong flu the US lost 100K people. I lived through that, as I assume many posters here did. Back then the US had about 206 million people. Now we have about 330 million. To have a corresponding percent of deaths Covid-19 would have to kill 162K (as of 4/28 there were 55,258 deaths). We may get there, maybe not.

    Contrast the mental condition of the nation during that “pandemic” with the mental condition now. Is it all attributable to the 24/7 news cycle? Or has the mental/emotional character of the US fundamentally changed? I think it has changed. Some of it for the better, some for the worse. Self-sufficiency and individual toughness is less, it seems. This crisis may help turn that around.

    However, I don’t think the mental/emotional condition of the US bodes well for significant productivity working from home.

  27. I worked as a software developer for many years in a very rural office. There were only three of us on the project, but we produced an extremely advanced networking product built on several hundred thousand lines of code, ran on just about every network protocol and sold several millions of dollars globally. Most of the time was spent at the office, but we occasionally did travel to customer’s sites. One thing I realized was that we, as a team, spent virtually no time in meetings, yet were extraordinarily productive.

    As time went on I migrated into consulting and for the last 25 years have worked exclusively from a home office. I like the quiet, am surrounded by acres of forest and yet still manage to make a healthy living.
    This style of work is not for everyone, it does require a good amount of discipline. Being a hermit helps a lot.
    As far as I’m concerned, this whole lockdown thing was just a minor PITA.

  28. I started working from home since September. I took a 100% remote software engineer position so I could move to central Missouri so my wife and I can live closer to family and get away from the city.

    There are many pros and cons. I don’t have to fight traffic like I did in Austin, I don’t spend 1.5 – 2 hours commuting each day. I don’t need clothes for the office and only fill up the gas tank every 3 -4 week. On the con side, my department is not good with communications. I get no facetime with other employees and don’t get to build relationships that are important to advancing in the company. I spent 5 days at the company headquarters in Atlanta but none since then.

    At home, I have a dedicated office, a good chair, a good desk and better computer monitors than they have at the office. My life is a lot less stressful and I can put my old commuting time to better use. Life in a small town lacks many amenities available in the city and suburbs but all-in-all I enjoy it.

    I hope working from home becomes the new norm. If my company cuts the employee headcount, there are no jobs for my locally. Without a remote position, I will have to stay in Kansas City during the week and only have weekends with my wife.

  29. I have a condo in the city where I stay a few months of the year, and our contracted janitorial crew just up and suspended operations when all this stay at home erupted. I am the president of the strata, so we just went and bought a few of those robotic vacuum cleaners that just go back and forth randomly all day up and down a few thousand feet of carpeted hallways and then plug themselves in to recharge. These folks are getting Gov’t payments or some type of unemployment benefits for not working, but now there is no job for them to come back to now. I suspect that there has been a lot of simple job automation. No working from home for many and now job destruction. Should have done this a few years ago already.

  30. Ghalfrunt. You didn’t read the transcript. POTUS WAS ADDRESSING HIS QUESTIONS TO THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER MR W RYANS. Who I believe is a temporary under Secretary of State . Mr Ryan’s had been revealing details of some research into the use of hydrogen peroxide and UV light on viruses,hence the questions raised by the President. It says a lot about you and your fellow travellers that a non American has to point this out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  31. I object to “Chinese Virus” or “Kung Flu” because it may be genetically engineered–and if so, it was made in the US, possibly starting at Ft. Detrick, then U North Carolina, then Canada, then Wuhan, then most likely an accident.
    “Chi Com” is worse because it is provocative, and part of the blame game. That risks war at any time and is particularly dangerous during a Fourth Turning. Blame is less effective in improving life than looking for lessons to be learned.

    The Chinese sequenced the virus about January 5, and posted the results on the web for all to see. That is to their credit. Within a day, a Texan scientist claimed he found a gene insertion tool in the virus. If, so, then it was definitely engineered. Also early January, the French fully sequenced it and also published. From that, it is claimed that there is no evidence of bioweapon. Somebody is flat-out lying–but who?

    I do not have the tools to determine who is lying, but those tools do exist. Scientists with the right software can easily compare sequences, and catalogs with hundreds of those “restriction enzymes” exist for anybody with both the time and the tools to check.

    —-
    As to working from home–most will return to the office, but some will remain at home. Oil’s value will end up somewhere lower than January 2020.

    • Citations, please? Who is the Texan scientist and where can we find his claims?

      Without more evidence, the null hypothesis applies — this is a natural mutation. As to the blame game, didn’t you just finger the US Army?

    • There is no evidence that the virus was engineered.
      There is loads of documentation that it originated in China.
      I suspect that the growing lady above is another one of the trolls mentioned above who are paid by the Chinese government to spread disinformation.
      PS:The tools do exist, and have been used. They show that what you are pushing is just a bunch of lies.
      PPS: A gene insertion tool, in the virus itself? This alone is sufficient to prove that you lie.

      • “There is no evidence that the virus was engineered.”

        What would such evidence even look like?

        Chinese researchers have published at least one paper about work to develop new coronavirus strains. How are we supposed to tell one of those from a natural mutation?

        • Claims and accusations require evidence. In science, the null hypothesis applies until evidence shows otherwise. In legal terms, “innocent until proven guilty.”

          • The null evidence being what you want to impose, as usual.

            The null evidence is that it’s intentional, as far as I’m concerned. YMMV.

  32. The problem is the public services. Licences, permits etc in at least two jurisdictions I work in have shut down. These people can’t work from home because responsibility is not devolved, their security systems old fashioned etc. We have no idea when we are going to get our paperwork processed. They need to get back to the office!

    • You are required to get a permit or license to work from home? For telecommuting? In many states, that’s only required if you’re running a business from your home.

    • The UK’s government has changed the method the data is compiled, extracting the hospitalised cases from the amalgamated total with required accuracy may not be possible, hence these daily graphs most likely will not be updated in the future.

  33. So Michael Kern hasn’t “ridden in a car since March 20th”. Not sure if he’s referring to his car (probably not, he sounds like he can walk and/or cycle everywhere when he’s not couch-bound), but those cars that have been parked for several weeks may need some attention. No doubt all mechanics will work from home from now on, at least according to Mr. Kern. 😉

    • My car had been sitting for three weeks when we took it this weekend to buy groceries. There were several loud metalic sounding pops, when it started moving. I’m guessing rust on the brakes or wheel bearings.

  34. New normal? No, people crave for going back to their offices again. I work from home for almost 10 years now and I have made myself a true office that’s separated from the rest of the apartment. With all the big screen computers and all the other stuff, you would expect to find in a regular office. I can work from a laptop for a little while but true productivity demands equipment and a state of mind and connectedness that is most prevalent in offices. But many companies will have found that they want to invest in more automation and also that they maybe don’t need quite so many people and more smarts. The world will change, but not towards more home-office.

  35. Why are we in a rush to change what has worked for decades? Everyone has issues and the stories never end, but is this the Earth changing event forecasted since time began or are we being duped to playing someone else’s game? I don’t want to play and I am not going home now either. Let’s think this over before we make a mistake and we will not be given a second chance.

  36. New Zealand has over the past decade invested in a state of the art Fibre to the Door network, about 80% of the population has access to this network. Frankly it’s the only think that’s been keeping our economy limping along.

    Right now many businesses are considering ways to reduce their overheads and aside from salaries, their expensive premises, unused for a month will be squarely in their sights.

    For many businesses the lockdown will have proven the concept satisfactorily. For the past ten years the city councils have been trying to push people into public transport, by reducing road capacity and hiking CBD parking rates.

    Many people, especially in Auckland, cite CBD access as consideration for taking a job.

    The upshot is that many people will be looking to continue working from home in the near future and companies will be looking to reduce their overheads to suit.

    Nobody really wants to use public transport, especially not now with the risk of contracting something nasty.

    The cost of subsidizing empty public transport is going to skyrocket at the same time as fuel prices for the private consumer will decline. Congestion will also decline.

    Greenie town planners will be a flat spin trying to attract punters to their much emptier CBDs and with fewer rentals, value based rates will also decline.

    Interesting times.

    • Public transport?

      Interestingly my employer’s directives have been to NOT use public transport to get to work. Even ride sharing is frowned upon.

    • It would help for you to define your acronyms when you first use them in a post. CBD? after some searching I found “Central Business District”, which seems to fit, however other hits were:

      CBD, short for cannabidiol, is a chemical compound from the Cannabid sativa plant
      – Doesn’t seem to fit the context

      CBD is a real estate investment, development, building, and consulting firm whose specialty lies in the development of single and multi-family residential housing throughout Florida, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania
      – Since you are talking about New Zealand, my guess is that that doesn’t apply either.

  37. What is more stressful, hours in public transport, being stuck in jams, or working home with three children or babies crying or shouting or running around?

  38. Here is another little ethics question for those stuck at home.

    What are our fearless leaders trying to do? Protect lives at all cost? Protect society/economy at all costs? Balance the two?

    I would suggest that many people would, if pressed, say that protecting lives is important, because we can always rebuild society and the economy, hence being still alive is the most important thing ever.

    Yeah… sounds rational, however let us reword the question.

    Let us pretend you are in a position of power. Let us say you could observe a large group of people ‘suffering’ due to their poor lives. They lacked the advances you and your peers had and hence this group had lower life expectancy and often seemed to get sick.

    So, in order to improve their health you decided to gather them all up (for their own good) and ensure they received better health care. The down side was that you couldn’t let them roam around – that would be dangerous and they might get sick and die. So you have all these people under your care and you think well they can’t just sit around, how about I get them some work. So you set them all to work but don’t actually pay them because they are under your care and wouldn’t have access to shops anyway. They ARE however not dying, which is the important bit.

    Then someone realises what you are doing, reminds you that slavery is illegal and you are human filth.

    BUT, you counter, Everyone is still alive under my system! So I am doing the ethically right thing!

    Okay, so I got a bit heavy handed there, but hopefully you can see my point. Protecting lives at ALL costs is not automatically the most moral and ethically correct answer.

    Remember, this is life. This is not a computer game where you can play for the ‘Good’ or ‘Bad’ ending. Life is hard because the world in real terms owes you nothing. Life is instead what you are prepared to make it and sometimes your choices are going to be difficult.

    Play safe peoples.

  39. Oh, I got it. You drill wells for oil, so your livelihood depends on a high oil price, that is why you dont want demand lowered.

    Actually Barclays UK is talking about much more of its staff working from home.

  40. Who exactly came up with the term “the new normal” the media did, the same media that has been controlled by the global warming terrorists, from the 2nd week of lock down people have been brainwashed into believing
    ” things will have to change” you will have to work from home” forced lock down while the warmests hierarchy get thier plan together ,article after article telling us air pollution has dropped, wild life returning to the streets,ect ect, the Welsh government setting up a panel of advisers to include Gordon brown, ex UK prime minister, rebecca Heaton’ a member of the UK climate committee, make no mistake the pandemic is being used by the climate terrorists to change your way of life,

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