Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
I’ve been following the many changes in the IHME coronavirus model used by our very own most incompetent Dr. Fauci. (In passing, let me note that he’s been wrong about most everything from the start—from first saying it was not a problem, to predicting 200,000 deaths in the US (based on an earlier version of this model), to advising people to NOT wear masks, to opposing chloroquine. But I digress …)
The IHME model is here, and it’s well worth a look, although not worth too much trust—it’s been wrong too many times. To their credit they’ve put the results online here.
Another problem with it is that the presentation of the data is so good. It’s good enough that it’s hard not to take it as fact.
The model historically has predicted numbers that were too high. The latest incarnation of the model is predicting 81,766 COVID-19 deaths in the US by August 4, 2020. That’s down from 93,000 in the previous incarnation of the model. Are they finally right? History makes one cautious. There’s a discussion of the upgrade of the model here.
However, despite their past high estimates in absolute numbers, I figured that their estimates of the shapes of the responses is likely pretty close to realistic. So I thought I’d take a look at the projected daily deaths, to see what I could learn. In particular, I wanted to investigate this idea of “flattening the curve”.
What does “flattening the curve” mean? It is based on the hope that our interventions will slow the progress of the disease. By doing so, we won’t get as many deaths on any given day. And this means less strain on a city or a country’s medical system.
Be clear, however, that this is just a delaying tactic. Flattening the curve does not reduce the total number of cases or deaths. It just spreads out the same amount over a longer time period. Valuable indeed, critical at times, but keep in mind that these delaying interventions do not reduce the reach of the infection. Unless your health system is so overloaded that people are needlessly dying, the final numbers stay the same.
Now, the model lists three kind of interventions on a state-by-state basis. The interventions are:
• Stay at home order
• Educational facilities closed
• Non-essential services closed
I figured I could take a look to see if imposing those restrictions would make a difference to how flat the curve is. Of course, to do that, I had to figure out a variable that would represent the “flatness” of the curve. After some experimentation, I settled on using the highest daily death number as a percentage of the total number of deaths. For convenience I’ve called this number the “peak factor”, and the larger it is, the more peaked the curve is.
So to start with, here are a couple of states with very different peak factors from two ends of the scale. The graph shows the shapes of the curves, but not the actual sizes, of the daily death counts in the two states.

Figure 1. The shapes of the curves of daily deaths for West Virginia and Missouri. Both have been scaled to a mean of 0 and a standard deviation of 1, and then aligned to zero. Both datasets slightly smoothed (Gaussian filter, FWHM = 3 days). For purposes of illustration of curve flattening, I’ve adjusted them so the total number of deaths are the same in both states.
Note that the area outside the blue line but still under the yellow line (bottom center) is equal to the amount of the peak above the yellow line. It’s the same total amount, just spread out over time.
Now, that looks like interventions are working … except for one detail. West Virginia imposed all three restrictions. Missouri only imposed two. And for those two, Missouri imposed them both later than did West Virginia.
So that pair certainly doesn’t say much for the effectiveness of our interventions. Why are they so different? Unknown, but presumably because of things including the density and distribution of the population.
So that’s what the effect of the interventions should look like. It should take a peaked curve and transform them, stretch them out over a longer time with a lower peak. And more interventions should flatten the peak even more.
Intrigued by all of this, I returned to the IHME model. One interesting discovery that I made was that for all of the states, the number of deaths before the peak is very close to the number of deaths after the peak. This was true for states with a high peak factor as well as a low peak factor, across the board. This should allow us a rough-and-ready rule of thumb to estimate the total deaths once the peak is passed.
Note that this rule of thumb is true no matter when the lockdowns are removed—all that will do is change the date of the deaths, not the total number calculated by the rule of thumb.
For example, Italy. Let me go look it up at Worldometer … OK, the peak was on March 28th, at about 10,000 deaths. That would make me think that total deaths in Italy will be on the order of 20,000 deaths.
To check that prediction, I just now looked for the first time at the IHME model country page for Italy. Until this latest update, they didn’t cover other countries, just the US. OK, the IHME model says 20,300 deaths projected for Italy. So my rule of thumb appears to work quite well. Let me test it with Spain. First, Worldometer. It says there had been 9,400 deaths by the time of the peak daily death in Spain. Rule of thumb says that the total should be on the order of 18,800 deaths. Turns out when I got there that the IHME model page for Spain says 19,200 deaths. So it seems that the rule of thumb works well, at least according to the model. Whether it works in the real world remains to be seen …
Next I looked at the peak factor for all the states versus the number of interventions, to see if the interventions tended to lower the peaks and flatten the curve. Figure 3 shows that result.

Figure 2. Scatterplot, “peak factor” showing how peaked the curve is, versus the number of interventions imposed on the populace. Red “whisker” lines show one sigma uncertainty of the median. Since there are only two states with zero intervention, no uncertainty calculation is possible.
As you can see, the total number of interventions makes no statistically significant difference in the flattening of the curve.
So I thought, well, let me look at the dates of each of the three types of interventions—stay at home, close schools, close businesses. Maybe there is relationship there. First, here are peak factors of the various states versus the timing of their “stay-at-home” order. Over time, the intervention should lead to lower peak factors, with early adopters getting greater benefit. Here’s that result.

Figure 3. Scatterplot, peak factors of the states versus the date on which they imposed the “stay-at-home” order. The yellow line is a “robust” trend, one which downweights any outliers. The trend is not statistically significant.
What that says is the opposite of what we’d expect—in this case, the later the intervention happened, the flatter the curve. Should be the other way around, earlier interventions should lead to more effect on the outcome.
Next I looked at the closing of non-essential services. Here’s that result.

Figure 4. Scatterplot, peak factor versus the date of closing of all inessential services. Again, the yellow line is a “robust” trend, one which downweights any outliers. This time the trend is statistically significant (p-value = .028)
However, despite the statistical significance of the trend line, it’s going the wrong way. The early adopters should be less peaked by now, not more peaked. Finally, here is the school closure data.

Figure 5. Scatterplot, peak factor versus the date of closing of all schools. Trend is not statistically significant.
It’s sloped the wrong way again, but I saw that graph and I thought “Hang on … that one data point is influencing all the rest”. So removed that point, which happened to be Iowa, and took another look.

Figure 6. Scatterplot, peak factor versus the date of closing of all schools. Trend is not statistically significant.
At least this one is going slightly the right way, although the trend is still not significant. That lack of a clear result may be a result of the bluntness of the instrument and the small size of the data sample.
Despite the lack of significance, I suspect that of all of the actions taken in the Western world to slow the spread of this illness, closing the schools could be the only one to have an actual measurable effect. Don’t get me wrong, any intervention has some effect however small. But I mean a real significant effect.
I say closing schools could have this effect because schools, particularly grade schools, could have been designed to be a very effective way to spread an infection. Consider. You not only have the kids packed in close together indoors for five days out of the week. Worse, it’s the same kids every day, so they have multiple chances to infect each other. Worse yet, they all go back home at the end of the day to infect the rest of the family, or to bring in new fun illnesses for “show-and-tell-time” at school to start the process over.
And finally, as all kids do, they wrestle and kick and cough and grab each other and sneeze and spit on the ground and trade clothing and eat bits of each others’ lunches … it’s a perfect petri dish.
So if you want to slow an infection, closing the schools at least makes logical sense.
On the other hand, stay-at-home orders where people still go out for groceries as well as to either work in “essential” jobs or purchase other essentials (and non-), that seems like a joke to me. The virus is sneaky. The Fed-Ex driver just dropped off a couple of packages here … there are still loads of people out and about. It’s all around. It can live on surfaces. It is transported by coughing, sneezing, or even talking. Yes, if you do a full-on surveillance state detecting, tracking, and contact tracing like South Korea has done, that will work. But you need to give your phone GPS data to the government to make that work. There’s no way Americans, or most westerners in general, would do that.
The western style style of quarantine leaks virus like a “closed” Senate hearing leaks classified information, and then the virus is transported everywhere. There’s really no attempt being made to track contacts. I suspect it would be futile at this point.
Overall? I see little evidence that the various measures adopted by the western nations have had much effect. And with the exception of closing schools, I would not expect them to do so given the laxness of the lockdown and the vague nature of “essential business”. I’ve mentioned before, here in Sonoma Country California, the local cannabis retailer is considered an essential business … strange but absolutely true.
Finally, I want to talk about that most mundane of things, the humble cost/benefit analysis. Draw a vertical line down a sheet of paper, label one side “Costs” and the other “Benefits”. Write them down on the appropriate side, add them up. We’ve all done some variation of that, even if just mentally.
Unfortunately, it seems Dr. Fauci doesn’t do cost/benefit analyses. It seems he only looks at or cares about the benefits. He called millions of people being thrown out of work “unfortunate” … unfortunate? It is a huge cost that he doesn’t want to think about. He’s not going to lose his job. His friends won’t lose their jobs. Meanwhile, at the same time that he’s saying “unfortunate”, the mental health hotlines and the suicide hotlines are ringing off the wall. People are going off the rails. Domestic violence calls are through the roof, and understandably. Forcibly take the jobs away from a wife and a husband, tell them that they are under house arrest, that’s stress enough … and meanwhile there’s no money coming in, rent and electricity bills are piling up, can’t put gas in the car, kids bouncing off the walls from being cooped up … of course domestic violence and suicides and mental health problems are off the charts.
Which brings me to California where I live. If California were a country it would have the fifth-largest economy in the world. Fifth. Just California. The annual GDP (Gross Domestic Product, the total value of everything we produce) of California in round numbers is three trillion per year. We have no hard figures, but it would not surprise me if 2020 was only seventy percent of normal, not from the virus, but from the government pulling the wheels off of the economy. That’s a loss of Nine. Hundred. Billion. Dollars. That’s bigger than the GDP of most countries, up in smoke.
And that’s not counting the cost of partially offseting the governmental destruction. First, the government pulled the wheels off of the economy. And now, they’re pumping out taxpayers’ dollars like water to try to ease the pain that they’ve just inflicted. That $1,200 check people are talking about? That a cost, not a benefit as the chatterati would have us believe. It comes out of our pockets. And there are all kinds of other associated expenses, lost wages, the list goes on and on.
So overall, here in California alone we’ve lost pushing a trillion dollars of value, with millions out of work, tens of thousands of businesses shuttered forever, discord and dismay abounding … and for what? For what?
Well, it’s for the following. Here is the IHME model projection for coronavirus deaths in the fifth largest economy in the world …

Figure 7. Projected coronavirus deaths, California.
That’s it? That’s all? Eighteen hundred dead? That’s less than California murders. It’s less than California gun deaths. It’s a third of our drug overdose deaths, for heaven’s sake, and guess what?
The trillion dollars we lost from the government shutting down the California economy?
It won’t save one of those 1,783 people. Not one.
It will just delay their deaths by a week or two.
A trillion in losses are on the cost side of the cost/benefit analysis. And on the benefits side, all we have is a two-week delay in eighteen hundred unavoidable deaths? That’s it? That’s all that a trillion dollars buys you these days?
Ah, you say, but more people might die if the medical system is overwhelmed. Are there enough beds and ventilators?
Well, glad you asked. Here are the figures, again from the IHME model. Unfortunately, as with the number of deaths, all the previous incarnations of the model have overestimated the need for hospital resources … but with that caveat, here are their California numbers.

No bed shortage. No ICU bed shortage. And we just shipped some ventilators to New York. We should peak in a week.
And while we’re waiting for the peak, we’ve just spent about a trillion dollars to delay 1,783 deaths by a few weeks. Not to save anyone’s life, I say again. Just to delay a couple thousand deaths by a couple weeks … look, it still wouldn’t be worth a trillion dollars even if we could actually save that many lives and not just delay their deaths. If it helps your conscience you could give the family of each person who could have been saved a million dollars, that’s only 0.2% of your trillion dollars, and the economy could keep humming along.
But it’s simply not worth totally wrecking the lives of 30 million Californians just to save eighteen hundred lives. That’s madness, that’s a terrible deal.
I have opposed this from the start. I don’t do a one-sided “benefits” analysis like Dr. Fauci does. I do a COST/benefit analysis, and we’ve just looked at it. Here’s the conclusion of that analysis:
Even if your hospital system is going to get overloaded, even if more people are going to die, put the trillion dollars into making the medical system the strongest and most resilient imaginable. Spend it on field hospitals and stocks of disposables, buy ventilators, buy hospitals, buy medical schools, buy beds and gowns, that’s what will save lives. I don’t care, shut down the grade schools if you have to although with a solid medical system you likely won’t have to … but whatever you do …
DO NOT SHUT DOWN THE ECONOMY, STUPID!! The costs are far, far too great.
Just the human costs are beyond measure. Lives ripped apart, suicides, endless worry and concern, running out of money to feed the kids, there’s no end to it, lying in bed at night wondering when they’ll let you out of jail.
And that’s all before we even get to the economic costs and the ripple-effect costs and the loss of productive capacity and the canceled contracts and the lawyers’ fees and finally, the start-up capital required, and the businesses that will have gone elsewhere, and the need to rehire or replace people and overhaul idled machinery, etc. etc. once this monumental stupidity is over.
So this is a plea for all you women and men at the top, the ones deciding when to call off the madness, I implore you—get up out of your offices, look around you, go to a small town and talk to some unemployed businesswoman whose local enterprise is now belly-up, understand what the loss of that business means to that small town, and GET AMERICA WORKING AGAIN TODAY! Not tomorrow. Today. Every day is endless pain and worry for far too many.
Here’s how crazy this lockdown is. You folks who decide on this for California? You are costing us trillions of dollars, and you are literally killing people through increased suicide and depression and domestic violence, and it’s all in the name of delaying a couple of thousand deaths. Not preventing the deaths, you understand. Delaying the deaths.
Killing people to delay death, that sounds like a charmingly Aztec plan, it comes complete with real human sacrifices …
Sheesh … it’s not rocket science. Further delay at this point won’t help. End the American lockdown today, leave the schools closed, let’s get back to business.
And yes, of course I’d include all the usual actions and recommendations in addition to leaving the schools closed—the at-risk population, who are those with underlying conditions, particularly the elderly, should avoid crowds. And of course continue to follow the usual precautions—wash your hands; wear a mask at normal functions and not, as in your past, just at bank robberies; only skype or facetime with pangolins, no hootchie cootchie IRL; refrain from touching your face; sanitize hard surfaces; y’all know the drill by now … the reality is we’ll all be exposed to to coronavirus sooner or later. And like the Spanish Flu and Hong Kong Flu and a host of diseases before and after them, after a couple of years the once-novel coronavirus will no longer be novel. It will simply become part of the background of diseases inhabiting our world like the Swine flu and the Bird Flu, all dressed disreputably and hanging out on every street corner in every town waiting for someone to mug …
My regards to all, and my profound thanks to the medical troops who are on the front lines of this war. The wave is about to break in the US, dawn is approaching, it will be over in a month. And hopefully, long before then. these insane regulations will go into the trash, we can stop paying trillions to delay a few deaths a few weeks, and we can get America up and working again.
w.
A REQUEST: If you know someone who makes the decisions on one of the lockdowns, or if you know somebody who knows one or more of the women and men making that decision, please send them a link to this document and ask them to read it and pass it up the chain so that we can all get back to work sooner rather than later.
To facilitate this, I’ve put a copy of this post for anyone to download as a Word document here, and as a downloadable PDF document here. Send a copy to someone who might make a difference.
MY USUAL REQUEST: When you comment, please quote the exact words that you are referring to. Only in that way can we be clear about what you are discussing.
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A few things, roll your socks up and protect your ankles
words quoted:
1. “Yes, if you do a full-on surveillance state detecting, tracking, and contact tracing like South Korea has done, that will work. But you need to give your phone GPS data to the government to make that work. There’s no way Americans, or most westerners in general, would do that.”
Not true. GPS data is not required to do contact tracing. It can help, but absolutely not necessary.
Take the super spreader in Korea. The officials know where she went because she told them.
Are you arguing that Americans will not help their fellow citizens by telling doctors– I went to lunch
with my friends and to church twice? That was all the needed to track down the 1000 or so people
she infected. or take the guy who infected hundreds of his co workers. No GPS needed
But it’s even easier than this. 80% of all transmission in China was family to family.
In short, the GPS tracking etc is only needed to wipe it out completely.
80 20 rule
Jane gets sick.
1. test her family
2. test her co workers
3. test her customers
4. test the people in her building
This gets you 80%+ of all transmission. its the last 20% that Might require GPS data.
Thats been pretty clear day in and day out in Korea,
And the disease makes this EASY because it takes days for symptoms to show up, if at all.
thats days of time to test close contacts, etc
Further Now you don’t need GPS data with Singapore’s new approach. The app has been open sourced it’s
pretty cool. No GPS required, it tracks contacts anonymously and securely. It tracks the anonymized
ID of the people you have come within 2 meters of. So, if Willis uses the app it will make a little
log. Willis (“w”) passed within 2 meters of a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k
next week ‘k” tests positive. “K” then consents to have their list of IDs shared. “K” has a list
like this x,t,w,p,r,q. hey look! K was close to w. So Willis would get a text.
‘Willis, you recently had close contact with person who tested positive, please come in for your free test”
what you need GPS for is labeling “hot zones” that’s how it is used in Korea and China.
Willis gets in his car. he goes to the bait shop to buy some night crawlers. He tests positive later.
Now everyone in the country will get a map on their phone showing that bait shop.
So you can do “good enough” contract tracing without this.
So, 80/20 rule. If you get a sick person 80% of the people they infect will be known to them already.
Family, Close contacts. 20% wont, 20% will be chance crossing of paths, public surfaces, etc.
want an idea of how many tests you do per person? Dunbars number. 1 sick person, test on
average 150 people.
Suppose Jane works in a Restaurant. In that case you probably want to know and test everyone who
ate there. You don’t need GPS data to do that either.
So bottom line. you don’t NEED GPS data to do the job, it helps do it perfectly. 80% of the time you’ll catch all related cases by immediately testing families, co workers, friends. neighbors of sick people.
Of course that means you might end up actually testing a lot of people.
better than being unemployed.
and some people might resist testing. Like the super spreader in Korea who resisted tested.
I think they changed the law so you have to comply with the swab up the nose.
could be worse considering all our openings.
2. you don’t flatten the curve to reduce deaths.
The IHME model is used by PLANNERS who need to decide before there is enough data how much demand there will be for hospital beds ,ICU units and ventilators. Deaths is the wrong metric. Ask the people who use the model if it is useful. the actual effectiveness of distancing measures will be measured
differently.
Can you do some analysis on Australia and New Zealand? Our cases here down under seem very low, and the stay at home orders appear to be working very well. Or maybe we just shut our borders down early enough, I don’t know.
Unfortunately, the model I linked to in the head post doesn’t cover either country, Jarryd.
Sorry,
w.
Summer in southern hemisphere its a COLD virus
in other news:
{good news}
A Rapid Test for Covid-19 Arrives Via a 20-year-old Technology Already in Many Hospitals
“In late March, the FDA approved the use of Cepheid’s GeneXpert rapid molecular diagnostic machines to test for the new coronavirus. The automated modules—5000 of which are already installed in U.S. health facilities, while 18,000 are in operation in other countries—don’t require a lab facility or special training to operate. What’s more, they generate accurate results in about 45 minutes.”
https://spectrum.ieee.org/view-from-the-valley/the-institute/ieee-member-news/a-rapid-test-for-covid19-arrives-via-a-20yearold-technology-already-in-many-hospitals”
linked from
http://www.transterrestrial.com/
the final numbers stay the same
==================
Willis, this is likely incorrect. Flattening the curve buys time and this allows improved treatment, reducing the numbers of death.
This happened in the past and it is happening now, as doctors share what works and what doesn’t. Add to this improved testing and contact tracing, which was impossible early in the pandemic.
You are right that flattening the curve buys time. I agree.
The problem is, I’m just not seeing the current interventions as flattening the curve.
I’ve shown in both Europe and the US that despite widely different levels of interventions, they don’t seem to affect the end results much if at all.
w.
The problem you face is a difference in population density, sampling rates and classification criteria. You cannot accurately make a meaningful comparison because you are comparing apples to oranges.
For example, all that is required to achieve a low covid-19 infection and death rate is to use a test with a large number of false negatives.
Another problem is how you classify patients that die of pnuemonia with covid-19.
In fact covid-19 kills very few if any. What kills peoole is pneumonia or organ failure. So death rates can be a reflection of medical guidelines.
For example, in the US doctors are taught to lust from specific to general on the death certificate, but the CDC guidelines for covid-19 want doctors to list from general to specific.
For example, someone is admitted with a gunshot, and their blood test is positive for coronavirus. Is they die was it the gunshot or coronavirus that killed them?
Now expand this to underlying morbidities.
Until there is randomized antibody testing there is unlikely to be a reliable metric to evaluate different strategies.
Willis,
I didn’t slog through all the comments to find out if someone else has the same idea as I have but I haven’t seen anyone, anywhere, relate the cost of the shutdown to the simple fact that wealth is ONLY created by someone selling/trading some service or thing (of value) to someone else. That’s what workers do – something of value. Stop folks from working and you have stopped creating value. Stop a lot of folks from working and a lot of value/wealth is simply not generated in that moment. Government (or anyone else) can send cash to pay rent, keep health insurance, etc but THAT is not creating value, it is the opposite.
And it is also important to note that money ($) is just a measure of value, not value itself. In the US we recognize the dollar as the measure – others use other names. So dollars can represent both an increase OR a decrease in value depending on the circumstance. Simple example – spend a few dollars on a hamburger and eat it – that amount of value is gone, for ever! Sell a bag of potatoes for more than it cost you to acquire or grow them and you create more wealth to balance the hamburger.
The real effect of this virus/shutdown is SCARY serious.
“…incompetent Dr. Fauci. (In passing, let me note that he’s been wrong…” Everyone who is wrong is incompetent? Where does that place others, including yourself? Why not stick with strengths?
If Dr. Fauci were wrong once, that wouldn’t be remarkable. But he has been wrong at every turn, which is why I called him incompetent. Perhaps a better description would be “out of his depth”. As to his strengths … I haven’t noted any, other than his ability to convince smart people to take up ridiculous positions.
w.
I find Fauci to be a slimy character. He has been busy quietly walking back his predictions well ahead of time. From The New England Journal of Medicine:
If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively. – NEJ Med 382;13, March 26, 2020
I think your naive hope that this will become ‘just another flu’ is reckless.
Immunity is the key here. Some viruses we never become immune to, the cold being one of them, and this one may be even worse:
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3078840/coronavirus-low-antibody-levels-raise-questions-about
This is so many times worse than a cold, transmissibility, virulence and maybe no immunity, hence no vaccine.
Cure is the only way to isolate and eradicate and until we have cure, then mass isolation is correct.
If we find no cure and there is no immunity we will get a standard death rate in the population of at least 5% per annum. There ain’t no small town businesses when there are no people left standing.
This is that serious.
wow, lot of misinformation in one post. We do become immune to flu viruses, coronaviruses, adenoviruses and rhinoviruses, they just mutate constantly so we have some reaction to the new strains. Not even the Imperial College study suggested a 5% death rate of the entire human population every year so I am very impressed by your ability to do so. Curing the disease caused in an individual by coronavirus does not eradicate the virus, it is still out there in some human and animal hosts or surviving in niches. Coronaviruses are not rapid mutators, so there actually is good reason to think that both through natural immunity and vaccines we will be in pretty good shape. If you take away its ability to home in on frail elderly patients, this isn’t a particularly lethal pathogen for the bulk of the population.
Immunity…
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3078840/coronavirus-low-antibody-levels-raise-questions-about
1) Antibody production is very low on first presentation of a pathogen. For a large percentage of the population, it is not detectable by standard testing. This does not mean that production will be abnormal on the second and subsequent presentations, unless the patient is otherwise immunocompromised.
2) CHICOM publication = likelihood of veracity ~0.000001%
It will be interesting watching the Belarus experiment in doing pretty much nothing. Old, sick, etc are kept as safe as possible and everybody else go to work, school etc.
If at the end of this Belarus has the same death rate per capita that everyone else has then a lot of people will have trillion dollar egg on their face.
Willis,
You set out a clear case for less shutdown. However, your case can only be as clear as the data you put into it. As many others have noted, the data are not good enough for a lot of types of modelling, for reasons that are not your blame and which you have several times noted yourself.
It is very easy for analysts to rattle off terms like “damage to the economy” but it is fiendishly difficult to define “damage” and “economy” to the degree demanded of a benefit:cost analysis that is meaningful in the ways that you note.
In Australia, our PM uses the term “hibernation”. Think about that as a way to model in your mind what happens to the economy. We are vaguely aware of bears that take time out each year to do nothing much except breathe, yet when they start up again, they seem much the same as other types of bears that do not hibernate. Hibernation does not seem to do damage per this example. Should we reduce our economic estimates of damage to let hibernation show its effects?
You also have the question of whether alleged damage is permanent, transient, ready for short-term or fated for long-term recovery. You have to examine each little part of each sector of industry and ask questions like “Would hibernation of this activity cause harm? If so, a lot or a little?” We all know that many activities loosely labelled as “work” are not required, however nice they make us feel. Example, there is a large tourism sector that could be put into hibernation with no harm to anyone, because it is optional. Worse, it might have negative value because it diverts people from productive work to fun work. How does society value fun? Quite high, it seems.
Thoughts about industry sector hibernation can quickly lead to the old saws of “Goods” versus “Services”, the value of production of real goods that can be bought and sold for meaningful $ values, as opposed to intangible services whose value is more to the user than to society as a whole. I raise this matter because countries after their shutdowns will probably think of changes to industry balance for several reasons. I have already suggested for example that Australia should develop anew a larger, more tailored pharmaceutical manufacturing industry so that an economic shock in the future will not catch us so short. At times like this it can be prudent to examine the national work balance and not put life back into many activities that have probable negative value already. Some such industries are manufacture of personal cosmetics, the making and marketing of alternative medicine hocus-pocus, or in short, many activities whose life support is intensive and expensive advertising of goods with no inherent value. Like the fake news industry. We persist with these for little more reason than we grew up with them and they seem part of normal life. They are not. Some are highly abnormal, undeserving of their existence. In a hard, serious analysis, major sectors like insurance, banking, investment are overdue for a study of real value.
This note is already too long, but the concepts in your essays are complex. Please note that I am a strong free marketeer, heavily against regulation, despite my words maybe suggesting otherwise.
Geoff S
“posed to intangible services whose value is more to the user than to society as a whole. I raise this matter because countries after their shutdowns will probably think of changes to industry balance for several reasons. I have already suggested for example that Australia should develop anew a larger, more tailored pharmaceutical manufacturing industry so that an economic shock in the future will not catch us so short.”
I think most countries will consider that. It should be a wake up call about retaining an industrial base.
Sorry Willis, I’m late to the party. But thanks for one of the few rational takes on this pandemic.
More evidence why we should not take the proscriptions of “experts” without question. Always question.
These are always good if you are in California, Northern
I appreciate the time you take to dig through the numbers. Unfortunately, many don’t understand the basic problem. Those of us who are appalled at the cost-is-no-object approach are not minimizing or discounting the risks or dangers of this disease. We simply believe that there is a (much) lower cost way of achieving the same results. I mentioned the quarantine of Miami in 1899 for yellow fever before. The city was quarantined but not the mosquitos. This is take two but on steroids. Are the measures quarantining an airborne virus?
I think masks are effective for the following reasons. First of all, the math is wrong in my opinion. It seems to me that the modeling is assuming smooth peanut butter. I think the peanut butter is chunky. The chunks may grow exponentially, but the smooth peanut butter grows very little if at all. I was taught to model that by assuming an average R naught. Let’s assume the R naught is two. In smooth peanut butter, each person infects two. In chunky peanut butter, 499 out of 500 don’t infect anybody. 1 out of 500 infects 1,000 people. The average R naught is also two, but the behavior is very different. Add to that an assumption that the chunky bits do a random walk through the peanut butter and you are in Lorenz territory.
Of course, if you do nothing, then the chunky bits will eventually grow throughout the peanut butter. It’s as if they were zombies. Every bit they come in contact with become zombies also. However, if you adopt a strategy that reduces the infectivity of the super-spreaders then the math changes also. So, if everyone has to wear a mask, then maybe the super-spreader doesn’t infect 1,000 but only 100. Using my example above, the R naught now becomes 0.2. That is a very effective way of controlling a pandemic.
What is not recognized by the policy makers, except maybe for President Trump, is that the current policy is unsustainable. The patient will die. Its like telling someone that to avoid inhaling virus particles that they just need to hold their breath. Our economy can hold its breath for a short period, but we are reaching that limit. This can’t go on for ever.
On a relatively small scale (several hundred people), I had an outbreak of a very contagious disease (strep throat) and a super-spreader that infected 180 before we noticed. I tested everybody, found the super-spreader and isolated her and put masks on everybody while they were being treated. The outbreak was stopped in its tracks. No further cases were detected and masks were worn until everybody tested negative. Scaling this up is, of course, very difficult, but masks are very helpful in lowering the R naught at a much lower cost than present policy. Testing and isolation of super-spreaders is essential. All three are necessary.
Thank you again for making such a strong case for a change in policy.
actually pretty good on the sheltering in place questions.
local local local
Within the military, orderly retreat is considered a much more difficult maneuver than attack and pitch battle
How and when to cut the shackles and fully open the economic tap? Too late and there will only be a trickle. Like it or not politicians will eventually have to address the trade-off question and face the music, like any general
The Chinese claim to have won the end game. Swine with flu can fly
in other news:
{good news}
A Rapid Test for Covid-19 Arrives Via a 20-year-old Technology Already in Many Hospitals
“In late March, the FDA approved the use of Cepheid’s GeneXpert rapid molecular diagnostic machines to test for the new coronavirus. The automated modules—5000 of which are already installed in U.S. health facilities, while 18,000 are in operation in other countries—don’t require a lab facility or special training to operate. What’s more, they generate accurate results in about 45 minutes.”
https://spectrum.ieee.org/view-from-the-valley/the-institute/ieee-member-news/a-rapid-test-for-covid19-arrives-via-a-20yearold-technology-already-in-many-hospitals”
linked from
http://www.transterrestrial.com/
If anyone doubts the effectiveness of lockdowns, watch the UK over the next 1-2 weeks.
We were slow implementing lockdowns and they were not especially restrictive, until about two weeks ago. As a result, our daily death rate is about to overtake the worst that happened in Italy.
And by the way, the numbers of deaths are under-reported in UK. They only include deaths in hospitals, so exclude care homes, prisons etc – and for technical reasons reported deaths lag actual deaths by several days,
So what are we supposed to be looking out for an what conclusion do you think we should be jumping to?
Deaths will be high in UK because we have one of the most run down health systems is Europe. UK has 129,000 beds, Germany has 120,000 ventilators ! Will that help us see the effectiveness of lockdowns?
Like the viscous viscount, you seen to think that any change can automatically be attributed to confinement, and any if UK performs badly that is because confinement was not done early enough.
You have one variable which you assume is the control knob and any change is therefore automatically attributed to it.
This is climatology all over again.
Monckton is doing exactly what he has been criticising in climatology here for decades to much applause. One wonders why his brilliant, incisive classically trained mind cannot see this.
Based on what? The announced death rate, which isn’t the daily death rate? The actual daily death rate which is just people dying who have tested positive?
And care homes are now included by the ONS.
Your statement is based on ignorance of the data you claim backs you up.
Our hospital death rate is about to overtake Italy’s worst day – possibly as early as today. Nothing to do with ONS figures which come later, and nothing to do with Germany.
Everyone has been saying that the death rate in Italy has been because of run-down health care, poor underlying health, oldest population in Europe etc, but they are going to have better outcomes than we do.
And as I said, watch the figures.
SOURCE
SOURCE
SOURCE
SOURCE
SOURCE
I’m just posting these to show that as I’ve been saying, the lockdown itself is killing people …
My point is that in this cost/benefit analysis of the economic shutdown, there’s blood on both paths.
w.
trolley problem.
this issue is as old as the hills.
“Remember that knowledge is a ruler and wealth is its subject.” – Saying 146 from Nahj Al-Balagha (599-661 BCE)”
I agree with Willis but in the spirit of the notion that knowledge is power, I feel the particular circumstances require a little more sarcasm:
The whole thing has nothing to do with a worldwide financial collapse that had begun* just prior to the viral outbreak! A massive liquidity crisis was already underway when the NY fed started pumping extraordinary amounts into the repo market. Over half a trillion as of February and the banks are still not trusting each other! The world is sitting on the biggest debt bubble in its history, over 250 trillion, 320% of GDP** as we all twiddle our thumbs in lock down!
The two largest bubbles are those of China and the US and of course it is yet just another remarkable coincidence that they had been working together*** on bat coronaviruses for at least the last 10 years!****
The fact that central banks have been unable to re-establish trust, despite pumping trillions into the market month after month, has absolutely nothing to do with the global lock down. It is just a coincidence that the start date of the “pandemic” coincided with structural failure in the global intergrated financial system.
Fear the virus, don’t worry about the economy, even as this lock down now makes the greatest financial crash in history inevitable! ;-(
I hope I’m wrong because Australia is also sitting on its largest debt bubbles since settlement, directly linked to foreign credit markets and if they go down, we go with them!
* 17 September 2019 to be exact, when the NY fed began by pumping 53 billion into the repo market
** https://www.iif.com/Portals/0/Files/content/GDM_Aug2019_vf.pdf
*** This is just one of many peer reviewed papers discussing cooperative experiments that included both the Wuhan lab and its scientists and US scientists, universities, and funding (USAID-EPT-PREDICT funding from EcoHealth Alliance, for example.) :
circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence.
Nat Med 21, 1508–1513 (2015). https://doi.org/10.1038/nm.3985
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985
The paper above was controversial at the time, subsequently the creation of chimeric viruses was briefly banned but ultimately lifted in 2017:
https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787
You really have to read just a little of the non-technical portions of some of these papers; it is simply mind blowing to accept that this isn’t science fiction! :
Moving beyond metagenomics to find the next pandemic virus
Vincent Racaniello
PNAS March 15, 2016 113 (11) 2812-2814; https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1601512113
https://www.pnas.org/content/113/11/2812
**** Recombination, Reservoirs, and the Modular Spike: Mechanisms of Coronavirus Cross-Species Transmission
Rachel L. Graham, Ralph S. Baric
DOI: 10.1128/JVI.01394-09
https://jvi.asm.org/content/84/7/3134?ijkey=1559c872714c94954c805dab900793cae9e6a00b&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha
Correction:
The US moratorium* began in 2014. The study mentioned above** – already underway – was allowed to proceed.
* US suspends risky disease research:
Government to cease funding gain-of-function studies that make viruses more dangerous, pending a safety assessment. https://www.nature.com/news/us-suspends-risky-disease-research-1.16192
**circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence.
Nat Med 21, 1508–1513 (2015). https://doi.org/10.1038/nm.3985
Since posting my comments above, my personal website has been down. It is just my artwork site and nothing political but it is my own!
I can’t get anything intelligible from the web site hosts – TPP- as to why it is down and they have been demonstrating complete ineptitude.
I’d like to put forward another theory : That lockdown will increase the eventually death rate.
Imagine a small town, X. Into X comes Covid 19 via someone from City Y, the infection spreads to schoolchild, Johnnie. That child infects others in his class and school who then take the disease to their families etc etc. After a few months everyone has been exposed to Covid-19 and those with normal immune systems have built up immunity, the famous “herd immunity”. Summer comes and cases drop as immunity increases due to higher levels of vitamin D and less indoor living.
Next winter Covid-19 comes back to town but there is herd immunity so it is more difficult to spread the disease and cases are fewer. This is the normal pattern of disease for mankind.
Now if you’d had lockdown before Johnnie had spread the disease to his classmates what would have happened? Less of them would have caught the disease so there’d be less immunity and when lockkdown is removed Covid-19 returns. It now has more possible carriers to spread it, anyone whose immunity has recently become compromised is now as at risk of exposure as before. If it is winter then even more so.
And if Covid-19 has mutated it could be a more deadly strain and those without immunity will be at a higher risk than previously. Better that we follow human history of millions of years and all get exposed in one season rather than hide indoors and have no immunity to something that may be more deadly. I believe this is what happened with the Spanish flu, returning troops brought novel versions of the Spanish flu back en masse to their home town and themselves had little immunity to other strains that were there. They also had compromised immune systems due to the stress of trench warfare, exposure to vermin and the dead and a poor diet of tinned food.
NZ’s Covid-19 active cases have dwindled down to 2% after just 2 weeks of a strictly enforced total lockdown.
https://covid19map.co.nz/
Just saying
Yup
And San Fran did a great job of shutdown
‘Who should we ask? Badger or Toad?’ said Ratty
‘Badger!’ said Mole ‘And that’s a fact, and no mistake!’
‘I am convinced that the Corona mortality rate will not even show up as a peak in annual mortality. ‘In Hamburg, for example, not a single person who was not previously ill had died of the virus: All those we have examined so far had cancer, a chronic lung disease, were heavy smokers or severely obese, suffered from diabetes or had a cardiovascular disease. The virus was the last straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak. Covid-19 is a fatal disease only in exceptional cases, but in most cases it is a predominantly harmless viral infection.’
Professor Klaus Püschel, head of forensic medicine in Hamburg
‘….the internationally renowned epidemiology professor Knut Wittkowski from New York explains that the measures taken on Covid19 are all counterproductive. Instead of social distancing, school closures, lock down, mouth masks, mass tests and vaccinations, life must continue as undisturbed as possible and immunity must be built up in the population as quickly as possible. According to all findings to date, Covid-19 is no more dangerous than previous influenza epidemics. Isolation now would only cause a second wave later.’
‘Professor John Oxford of Queen Mary University London, one of the world’s leading virologists and influenza specialists, comes to the following conclusion regarding Covid19: Personally, I would say the best advice is to spend less time watching TV news which is sensational and not very good. Personally, I view this Covid outbreak as akin to a bad winter influenza epidemic. In this case we have had 8000 deaths this last year in the ‘at risk’ groups viz over 65% people with heart disease etc. I do not feel this current Covid will exceed this number. We are suffering from a media epidemic!’
‘How a profession that is supposed to control the powerful as an independent, critical, impartial Fourth Estate can succumb as quickly as lightning to the same collective hysteria as its audience, almost unanimously, and give itself over to court reporting, government propaganda and expert deification: It’s incomprehensible to me, it disgusts me, I’ve had enough of it, I dissociate myself from this unworthy performance with complete shame.’ Harald Wiesendanger journalist and author on medical matters for over 25 years
‘Facts about Covid 19’
‘Policy makers need to be aware of the equivocal evidence when considering school closures for COVID-19’
The Lancet
The experts clearly now know what it is that they are, in fact, dealing with.
Time to get back to work.
Calculating COSTS of the interventions is tricky.
Sure – interventions and lockdowns cause economic damage – no doubt about it. But… even without government interventions and lockdowns, some considerable damage to the economy will result from this epidemic – which is a natural disaster (not government made). Even if Government stays aside and does nothing – the economy gets hurt by things or measures people will do to protect themselves from the plague.
Old people will stay home – voluntarily, all will refrain from recreational trips, the tourism industry is decimated, sports and concerts closed… social distancing…all voluntary “interventions”.
You should put on the “costs” side of the equation only the ADDITIONAL damages cause by Government decrees, damages that were not bound to happen anyway.
This plague, this natural disaster, causes economic damages… not way to avoid them. I suspect that the additional damages added by unnecessary Government intervention are much smaller than the total you presented of estimated.
Couple of typos, I know you hate those, Willis:
“Fex-Ex”
“There’s really no attempt being made being made to track contacts.”
Thanks, Jeff, fixed. I do indeed hate typos, they slow down the reading and sidetrack the understanding.
w.
New Orleans, the epicenter of Deaths, (other than the other epicenters of Deaths; it seems governors and mayors are fighting for air time over the title), was in the news for almost 2 weeks about getting their convention center ready to accept corona patients. Building to a crescendo the day before it opened, TV crews were on hand touring the convention center with dignitaries posing. Since opening on Monday April 6, there has Not.Been.One.Story. Nothing. No cameras showing the ambulances, army vehicles, or ‘refrigerated trucks’. The convention hall is set up to handle 1,000 according to breathless pre-opening news reports and interviews with plans to increase that to 2,000. Now four days later, Not.One.Story. Can’t hype an empty building?
It doesn’t mean people aren’t still dying (like the flu). It doesn’t mean some aren’t still being hospitalized (like the flu). It is evidence that this “over worked, over capacity, over flow” has been over hyped.
Search: morial convention center covid corona