EU could use carbon border tax against Brexit Britain, warns MEP

From EURATIV

By Sam Morgan | EURACTIV.com

Jan 28, 2020 (updated: 2:29)

The EU could deploy a carbon border tax against the UK after Brexit, according to the head of the European Parliament’s environment committee, if Westminster diverges from bloc rules on issues like carbon markets.

French MEP Pascal Canfin told reporters on Monday (27 January) that the EU “should be tough” and “shouldn’t be afraid of an economic no-deal in December”, as the next round of Brexit-based negotiations loom on the horizon.

The talks will determine what sort of relationship the UK and EU will have after the transition period ends on 31 December and Canfin made clear that divergence from bloc rules will make trade relations more difficult.

“Talks haven’t started on the right path, with the UK government saying it wants full [single market] access but also divergence. To me that is like the EU asking for full alignment but with quotas,” the lawmaker warned.

As head of the Parliament’s environment committee (ENVI), Canfin will help advise negotiators on related issues during the talks, citing carbon markets as a tangible example of where difficulties might arise.

The UK is currently a part of the EU’s emissions trading scheme (ETS) but the government plans to leave the carbon market and set up its own carbon-pricing equivalent. Canfin told reporters that “the markets have to have the same price”.

“For the EU’s industry, you can’t accept that the UK has full access” to the EU’s single market while a lower carbon price is on offer across the Channel, he insisted.

UK government documents from 2018 suggest that a British equivalent would add up to around €35 per tonne, while the EU ETS currently trades at roughly €25, although the price is expected to increase as new green policies are signed and delivered.

“We started designing the carbon border adjustment mechanism. We might imagine that we will apply this mechanism to the UK in order to restore the level playing field,” Canfin suggested, referring to a new tool aimed at preventing ‘climate dumping’.

The Renew Europe MEP also cited carbon markets when asked if the UK would only be expected to accept EU laws as they stand on the day a new trade deal is signed or if it would have to comply with updates and reviews, known as ‘dynamic alignment’.

Canfin replied that “for the EU team, it’s about no-regression clauses, so you can’t diverge regarding current EU law”, adding that updates to climate rules like the ETS will soon be on the cards with the new Green Deal agenda presented by the European Commission last month.

Full story here.

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117 thoughts on “EU could use carbon border tax against Brexit Britain, warns MEP

  1. Let’s hope that Britain deals with the inevitable Post-Brexit threats from the EU as successfully as it dealt with the Spanish Armada, Napoleon’s forces from France and the Third Reich in Germany.

      • Go ahead, I’m not talking to you, la la la, oh hello Mr Trump, oh you would like to trade…. Right this way

    • If only there were another nation that is also experiencing a rebirth of freedom that Britain could make a massive new trade deal with.

      • Robert W. Turner January 31, 2020 at 4:54 pm

        If only there were another nation that is also experiencing a rebirth of freedom that Britain could make a massive new trade deal with.

        ____________________________________

        That would be Burma, Myanmar –

        “Muslim settlers came to Arakan State, an independent coastal kingdom in what is now Myanmar, starting in the 1430s, and a small Muslim population lived in Arakan State when it was conquered by the Burmese Empire in 1784.

        Burma in turn was conquered by Britain in 1824, and until 1948 Britain ruled Burma as part of British India.”

      • Robert W. Turner January 31, 2020 at 4:54 pm

        If only there were another nation that is also experiencing a rebirth of freedom that Britain could make a massive new trade deal with.

        ____________________________________

        That would be Burma, Myanmar –

        “Muslim settlers came to Arakan State, an independent coastal kingdom in what is now Myanmar, starting in the 1430s, and a small Muslim population lived in Arakan State when it was conquered by the Burmese Empire in 1784.

        Burma in turn was conquered by Britain in 1824, and until 1948 Britain ruled Burma as part of British India.”

        https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/people/reference/rohingya-people/

    • She will, nicholas tesdorf. Watch Boris be as merciless to his erstwhile friends as Britain was when she destroyed the French fleet at Oran.

      And watch Boris go his own way on climate change. Watch him break all his previous statements on CO2 policies – he will need to change Britain’s legislation here because this forces Britain to adhere to a climate change programme which is simply un-affordable – especially now she is out of EU.

    • Andy Espersen January 31, 2020 at 6:05 pm

      She will, nicholas tesdorf. Watch Boris be as merciless to his erstwhile friends as Britain was when she destroyed the French fleet at Oran.

      [ ] this forces Britain to adhere to a climate change programme which is simply un-affordable – especially now she is out of EU.

      ____________________________________

      UK was a net payer to the EU, ~60b €. EU now asks for ~60b €.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=uk+owes+eu+60+billion&oq=UK+60+bil&aqs=chrome.

      • Looking for someone more “high-powered” rather than an ex-Cabinet Minister, so the story goes.

        I don’t know how Boris is placed on climate — actually I don’t know how he’s placed on most things! — but a well-though out presentation to Cummings might pay dividends!

    • suffolkboy – just spotted this news (about dismissal) after I had written my comment above. Very interesting. Are we seeing Boris’ change of heart on climate change matters already?

      • Not according to his address to the nation where he said “in our fight against climate change”.

        • Meaningless words – lip service only, unless followed by action. We hear such from so many other heads of state these days. Don’t kid yourself.

          • Agreed. BoJo was the Mayor of London once and was called out about public transport policy and statements on Top Gear about supercars etc. He just blabbed and waved them aside.

    • I followed that link to the story in the BBC. Underneath the story there is a section called ‘Why you can trust the BBC’. Is there a Nobel Prize in irony? If so the BBC would be a strong contender.

        • Yes that irony started a long time ago – when the NPP was awarded to Yassir Arafat, who would attack Israel until the PLO was getting its ass kicked, at which time he would begin the “peace negotiations.” Then, after the “peace negotiations” provided the necessary respite for the PLO to restock on weapons, the “peace negotiations” would suddenly break down, and the attacks would begin anew.

          Nothing like awarding a “peace prize” to a terrorist organization’s leader.

    • The EU doesn’t seem to realize that ANYTHING that they are selling to the UK can be replaced by supplies from the US within 48 hours. And we won’t charge them a carbon surcharge.

    • ENVI (envy) sounds like an perfect name for a committee in a do nothing EU Parliament. Their main job is to disapprove(rarely) any regulations proposed by the unelected bureaucracy. The other jobs seem to be long boring speeches, and dignified, sarcastic name calling.

  2. European Free Trade Association (EFTA) is a regional trade organization and free trade area consisting of four European states: Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland.
    Those four nations are not part of the EU, yet seem to be thriving?

    • norway … oil and other natural resources

      switzerland … financial profit from lots of differing sources & schemes

      liechtenstein … same as switzerland

      iceland … almost bankrupt (but not for sale …) (if they were in the EU they would be in worse shape now and would not have been allowed to crawl out of the hole).

      UK established the EFTA, then shafted themselves and left it; now they will likely get back in for the essentially the same reasons they founded it.

      Why would anyone want to be a member of an organization where the dues are greater than benefit?

      • ‘ Why would anyone want to be a member of an organization where the dues are greater than benefit?’

        Maybe to help your fellow man?

        But probably more likely to gain power, After all money is only a means to an end.

  3. Brexit news: EU considers ‘sustainability charge’ on meat prices to fight climate change
    THE European Union could introduce a new tax on meat products to cut back on greenhouse emissions and climate change a week after Britain’s historic exit from the economic bloc.
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1236415/Brexit-news-EU-meat-tax-sustainability-charge-meat-prices-climate-change-EU-Green-Deal

    Fermentation also releases CO2. So will EU put a tax for the Germans on their Beer, and for the French on their Wine??

    EU carbon tax could lock UK farmers out of European market
    UK farmers could be locked out of the European market if the EU introduces a carbon tax to prevent high emission imports, a trade expert has warned.
    https://www.fginsight.com/news/news/eu-carbon-tax-could-lock-uk-farmers-out-of-european-market–97618

    CCC: One fifth of UK farmland must be used to tackle climate change
    An “urgent” overhaul of the UK’s land and agricultural sector will be essential to meet the government’s legally binding net-zero target, says the Committee on Climate Change (CCC) in a new report
    https://www.carbonbrief.org/ccc-one-fifth-of-uk-farmland-must-be-used-to-tackle-climate-change

    • “ CCC: One fifth of UK farmland must be used to tackle climate change”
      Says the CCC chair Lord Deben.
      Always amuses, annoys and frustrates the hell out me how a non elected body can demand policy change.
      Reminds me of medieval Federalism where “the peasants were obliged to live on their lord’s land and give him homage.”
      I don’t know how planting trees is going to help feed the masses. Heaven help UK farmers if CCC have their way.

      • “I don’t know how planting trees is going to help feed the masses.”

        Why do you think they want to feed the masses ??
        They don’t need the masses any more for production (we have automation & AI for that).
        They don’t need the masses any more for war ( they can be conducted from a command centre).

        The elite have always called for a sustainable population (that’s a population to sustain the elites)
        planting trees makes for a pleasant landscape for those who are left
        The powerful do as they will; the weak suffer what they must.

        CCC chair Lord Deben is the little $hit John Selwyn Gummer, ex MP, professional thief, cheat & liar with one of the longest snouts in the trough

      • Lord Deben was previously my MP. He is a totally dyed-in-the-wool climate alarmist. I suspect he has financial interest in keeping the “climate change” fraud alive. I alerted him, ineffectively, (as did many others) when I was studying at UEA around the time of Climategate to suspicions about the suspected corruption of the scientific process. I did the same with his son who also became my MP and who was similarly minded, but perhaps not as dismissive to sceptics as his father. Over the recent decade the contempt in which most MPs hold their constituents has become exposed, not just over “climate change” but over Europe and over the entire democratic process. In parallel with that I have realised that my suspicions twenty years ago over the statistical significance of half a degree and the falsification of the models were well founded but were a sign, not of human error or local academic funding exaggeration, but of an international scientific, economic and political fraud.

        The new batch of MPs may be less contemptuous. However, if Boris is in charge it will be necessary to “hold his feet to the fire” to get rid of the Antrhopogenic Global Warming scam. I’m sceptical that he has either the power or the will to do so. He is surrounded by green activists, pragmatists and “deep state” who would go to great lengths to stop the slightest retreat from the Climate Change Act. I can’t see Boris, unaided, pulling the UK out of fraud, let alone dismantling it at the level of the UN. However, so high is public scepticism of climate change (and especially XR and Gretaism) that, just conceivably, he might pitch “over the heads” of his government and trust in the support of the general public. He would be wise to learn from the mistakes of Theresa May in ignoring the public. Perhaps last night’s EU exit will strengthen his hand in overcoming the fraud.

    • Here’s Who Pressured the Medical Journal
      Do we want to live in a world in which medical journals are afraid to publish certain conclusions?
      I recently described an organized campaign against a medical journal that published research over the objections of anti-meat activists. After the Annals of Internal Medicine refused to halt publication, the US Federal Trade Commission was urged to intervene. So was the Philadelphia district attorney’s office.
      Do we really want to live in a world in which medical journals are afraid to publish certain conclusions because activists will sic the authorities on them? Does it really need to be said that, once government officials and the courts start second-guessing medical journals, free speech and honest scholarship are as good as dead?
      https://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2020/01/29/heres-who-pressured-the-medical-journal/

  4. ” while a lower carbon price is on offer across the Channel, he insisted”

    A de facto official acknowledgement that carbon ponzi schemes damage competitiveness.

    Is this the epilogue to the unlimited progress supposedly achieved by EU green economy ?

    Who would have taught ?

  5. And we can stop buying their Mercedes, BMWs, Volkswagons, Citroens, Renaults, Fiats etc, cheeses and wines. We have a £100BN trading deficit with the EU, money we can spend elswhere in the world.

    • Spot on, people the world over can serve the same back to Europe. How would their factories, banks, elites, employment, cities and state finances fare, with a global boycott of such misanthropic, anti-freedom, anti-democratic EU-Commission authoritarian idiots, trying to throw their weight around. Even the people of Europe can stand the EU-Commission.

      • I have a feeling Shouty (Australian PM) will be defending his job in a couple of months on the back of climate alarmism, bushfires, dry rivers, depleted fish grounds off Tasmania etc etc.

    • Many Volkswagens are note name in the EU bloc. The Golf Mk6 and Polo are made in South Africa (Cheap labour, energy and no emissions to worry about). The Amorok is made in Argentina for the same reason. Many BMW’s are not made in German. Simply don’t buy them.

    • Yep, the PHEW will quickly find out the hard way the Britain has the whip hand in any negotiations. Then there’s the whole hypocrisy of selling carbon spewing automobiles to the same country you want to punish for spewing carbon.

    • Patrick MJD January 31, 2020 at 4:34 pm

      Many Volkswagens are note name in the EU bloc. The Golf Mk6 and Polo are made in South Africa (Cheap labour, energy and no emissions to worry about). The Amorok is made in Argentina for the same reason.

      Many BMW’s are not made in German. Simply don’t buy them.

      ____________________________________

      Harley Davidsons are made in China, India, Thailand:

      https://www.google.com/search?q=Harley+Davidson+made+in&oq=Harley+Davidson+made+in&aqs=chrome.

      Money + free enterprise don’t know borders.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=free+enterprise&oq=free+enter&aqs=chrome.

  6. An alternative headline might be something like¨: The EU shows Exactly Why Freedom-Loving Countries Should Exit!

    • Indeed. Pascal Canfin is a very arrogant guy. He apparently has lots of similarly arrogant buddies. A more productive approach might have been for the EU to try to work out how it could work better for GB. As far as I can tell, they didn’t even think of that approach.

      This is a lot like what happened in the ‘States. The majority of working people suffered hugely but the left figured out they deserved whatever they got because the working people were majority ‘privileged white people’. Listen Liberal!/rant

    • commieBob January 31, 2020 at 4:19 pm

      Indeed. Pascal Canfin is a very arrogant guy. He apparently has lots of similarly arrogant buddies. A more productive approach might have been for the EU to try to work out how it could work better for GB. As far as I can tell, they didn’t even think of that approach.

      This is a lot like what happened in the ‘States. The majority of working people suffered hugely but the left figured out they deserved whatever they got because the working people were majority ‘privileged white people’.
      ____________________________________

      How many children are starving in the UK?

      Going hungry

      One in three children – or 4.1m – are living in poverty in the UK. The charity UNICEF estimates that 2.5m British children, or 19%, now live in food insecure households. Apr 30, 2019

      theconversation.com › food-poverty…
      Food poverty: agony of hunger the norm for many children in the UK

      https://www.google.com/search?q=uk+famine+every+8+years&oq=UK+famine+every+8&aqs=chrome.

  7. As of about 30 minutes ago…

    THE UNITED KINGDOM IS OUT OF THE EU!!

    Hip, hip, HOORAY!

    #(:))

    Congratulations to all you liberty-loving Brits!

    (just had to rejoice about this somewhere – so happy)

  8. The response is easy.
    The US and Britain could enter into a trade agreement that would impose retaliatory tariffs on the EU if either partner were to be hit with a “carbon border tax”.

    By the way, how many trade items do NOT contain carbon? (Jus’ askin’ for a friend.)

    • “The US and Britain could enter into a trade agreement that would impose retaliatory tariffs on the EU if either partner were to be hit with a “carbon border tax”.”

      I think Trump suggested something similar to that not long ago.

      Trump says he is working on a new trade deal with the EU. It wouldn’t be in the interests of the EU to threaten the U.S. or Britain economically over CO2. If they do that, then they really will have a “climate crisis”, of their own making.

      EU bureaucrats should think about this: How many times have you seen Trump lose a confrontation? Trump has been up against some formidable opposition but they all fall by the wayside. EU bureaucrats will fall, too, if they put themselves in that position.

      Be nice. Be cooperative. Forget human-caused climate change, it is muddling your thinking and hampering what you should be doing. If we all think clearly, we can make a new deal that benefits everyone.

      • “If they do that, then they really will have a “climate crisis”, of their own making.”

        With the “defend institutions at any cost” mentality of the European establishment, I strongly fear that they would go for the “crisis of their own making”. That is, they would run to that. Without hesitation.

        From their game theory POV it might even make sense to hurt European citizens to prevent a positive outcome of an exit of a member. It’s the European project/idea/ideal above all else.

  9. It has just gone 11.30 pm here and we left the EU 30 minutes ago. I voted to join the EEC (the forerunner of the (EU) in 1975 but unfortunately no one ever asked us if we we wanted to be a part of th EU, a wildly different and much more political entity than its predecessor.

    Consequently I voted to leave in 2016 . The establishment was totally horrified by our decision and tried everything to set aside the decision.

    So as well as regaining our status as a sovereign country able to make our own laws, this is a huge blow in support of democracy and self determination .

    The carbon borders the EU are attempting to set up will set them against the 88 percent of trade that is not part of the EU.

    I can’t see America or china or India or many countries agreeing to them

    Tonyb

    • TonyB, you (We Brits) got to vote on the Common Market in 1975, but Heath had already done the nasty in 1973, effective Jan 1st 1974. No vote, no mandate. So in 1975 we got to vote to stay, not to join. And then it went down hill from there, the final nail in the coffin IMO was monetary union with the Euro. It was a good decision the UK kept the pound.

    • I voted for EEC membership too. Because it was a good idea and it actually worked well. I would be in favor of the UK joining a new version of the EEC, but with very strong protections against it ever evolving into something like the EU again.

      Getting out of the EU was a very sensible thing to do. I began to have doubts that it would ever happen.

      • The forced immigration quotas from Brussels against a nation’s identity seems to have been the deal breaker. Compassion … yes, absolutely. But let a nation’s people decide what its future is, not some distant bureaucrat.

        That more than anything signaled the loss of a nation’s sovereignty of its borders to a rabble hoard. No one can tolerate that. That is what Brexit is about. A people deciding their own fate.

        • Also immigration quotas were never on the table and never part of Schengen. The member states accused of violating EU commitments and European values are the one who have followed the principles of Schengen even to the letter. They have secured their part of the Schengen borders and that’s exactly what Schengen was about.

          Only those who follow Schengen are denigrated. Those who violate Schengen and international law and support human trafficking are applauded.

          It means that “Europe” is rogue/failed state, with a renegade justice that supports lawlessness. In that regard, the EU is even more failed that the Mexico federation.

          For those who like to pretend the EU is not itself a state, I refer you to the fact it has:

          – flag, anthem
          – passport
          – fundamental laws
          – laws and law templates that are the source of most laws in “member states”
          – a justice court above all member courts
          – an arrest warrant automatically implemented by all police forces emitted by any “member state”
          – common insurance for banks, with possibly unlimited exposure of member “states”

          By these metrics, the EU is more a federation than even the US.

          Compared to what the US should be according to its Constitution, that is a US without a dept of education, EPA, etc. the EU is drastically more a centralized federation.

          To preserve the appearance of non being as much of a federal country as the US, the EU does not have a country status at the UN and still doesn’t have a meaningful army (the pro-EU people want one).

          People are often ridiculed for calling the EU a state or a country, but refusing these terms is in fact the ridiculous position. The EU is just a failed, rogue state.

          To say that people voted for the EU is a lie; they voted to approve directly or indirectly (they voted for governments that said they supported such positions) pacts like Schengen or the free and fair internal market which are systematically violated.

  10. For ne thing, UK can simply ban EU countries from using it’s resources at sea. No Fish for You! EU countries use UK waters more than the UK does. It has long been a complaint of UK fishermen that the EU is stealing its fish.

    • Yes since before 1973. 1973 just gave them the nod to raid British territorial waters. Then the rule and quotas came in 1974, which were ignored, particularly by the Spanish, plundering those waters. Now fish stocks are permanently down.

      • Another great EU myth, Patrick!

        In reality the British were queuing up to flog their quota to the Spanish in 1974. The big trawler companies were only too eager to get out of a business in which there was no longer enough profit.

        There is a lot of big talk about British waters but since we don’t want what is in those waters and we effectively sold our rights to them 40+ years ago — and since the whole UK fleet accounts for barely one-half of one per cent of UK GDP — suddenly to start making noises about “our waters” is verging on hypocrisy.

        At the very least let’s be honest with ourselves in this new, and possibly risky, venture!

  11. This is nothing new. The EU has been threatening the UK after Brexit, and many other countries, that it will not trade with them if climate policies are not to the liking of the EU. The baby is throwing a tanty I hope BoJo and the UK simply ignore the EU. The EU will soon learn the EU needs trade with the UK that the UK needs trade with the EU. Still, it’s going to take another 11 months to finally finalise the exit. BoJo has even suggested that a new coin be minted to celebrate the event.

  12. Oh yes Pascal – you are not afraid of no deal.

    Please, please bring it on. We want lovely no deal. It is our DREAM, Pascal, our longed-for nirvana, the wonderful final solution to the EU nightmare.

    I speak as an Englishman who has just been drinking scotch to celebrate our liberation from the incompetent, stultifying, woke, liberal embrace of the EU. I drunk scotch and not champagne as it is the only way in which I can personally turd Nicola Spewgeon at this moment of a unified escape from our EU shackles.

    And you, Pascal, in your ineffable arrogance and ignorance threaten us with no deal. Pascal, mon petit choux, ecoutez-moi. We want no deal. We crave no deal. We dream of no deal in the depths of our political soul.

    And think on this. A no deal exit from Europe for the UK followed by a Trump second term. This is how we can reach perfection in the world…..

  13. What does anyone think Canfin would say? Until early last year, he was head of the French section of the WWF. That makes him a very deep Green. He’s been senior advisor on climate at World Resources Institute. All of this makes his position hostile to Brexit and deeply hostile to anyone breaking the EU Brussels mode. The question is how much real power he has in the Macron government, and how much real power the Macron government has in France. Given the chaos of gilets-jaunes, perhaps not as much as this fellow thinks.

  14. It’s funny.. they say “carbon pricing”, but I hear “air tax”.

    And can anybody tell me, WTF is “climate dumping”?

  15. To all our friends in Great Britain, from all of us in the USA:
    “Free at last! Free at Last! Thank God Almighty, You’re Free At Last!”
    President Trump has already offered to discuss a US/Brit trade agreement, at first opportunity. A trade agreement between the USA and Great Britain, with mutual retaliatory clauses should either partner be hit with EU ‘carbon taxes’, will help level the playing field and further isolate the unelected EU bureaucrats that push such crap. Let’s “Git ‘er Done!”

  16. The EU is a political body of unelected tyrants, proven by their insistence on everyone else adhering to their rules. The UK is well shot of them. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Time for stronger ties between the USA and the UK. 🙂

  17. From the article: “The UK is currently a part of the EU’s emissions trading scheme (ETS)”

    Is that the official name? “Scheme” seems like a brutally honest description, but EU bureaucrats aren’t normally known for being brutally honest. What’s going on here? 🙂

  18. I was watching a tv program on the MotorTrend channel today and a couple of people were discussing the unholstery for a car and one of them said to the other that he had purchased some “low-carbon” leather for the car seats.

    That is the first time I ever heard of low-carbon leather. Is this some invention of the EU Bureaucracy/Greens, or was that guy just pulling his friend’s leg?

    • Sure – it is really just normal leather, but he paid 4 times as much for it to pay for the indulgence payment.

  19. EU: We will tax you for not taxing your people into submission!
    UK: We will trade with others and add transaction taxes to your financial dealings, no big deal.

    Result: UK growth and broadened markets, EU stagflation as far as the eye can see.

  20. Congratulations to the UK on finally leaving the EU socialists.

    A hearty Hear, hear to you and I hoist my beer filled vessel to you all.

    Best Wishes,
    Joel from Arizona.
    P.S. I’m fully a Irish-English Man by genetics (according to 23 and Me) thus descent.

    • Hasn’t actually happened yet. There is still another 11 months to go before the actual deal is done, and in politics, 11 months is an eternity. Watch for some squirming going on when the actual deal starts to come in to effect. I see a challenge to BoJo as PM in the next 6 months.

      • Patrick,
        With BoJo’s Party decisive win last December, I don’t see how that can be reversed. A re-join maybe. But Leave is now all but assured.

        • Yes I agree however the process will take time, 11 months as I understand. Regardless, there will still likely be a challenge. An example a vote on the Lisbon Treaty was held in Ireland a few years back. The unanimous vote was to reject it. That upset the EU. Another vote was held and the vote was to accept. Now Ireland is being filled with migrants against the will of the people.

  21. So, how will the EU apply a “carbon tax” on Airbus aircraft parts, wing and engines, that are made in the UK but assembled in France (IIRC)? You can tell the EU masters haven’t thought it through properly.

  22. The EU has lost a parcel of income with the loss of one of its biggest members. Clearly dividing that loss 27 ways may make it easier to bear, but its more than likely that they see themselves recouping some or most of the loss in other ways.

    To wit, the UK will end up paying, either by some stipend to gain preferential access to the EU, or in tariffs on UK goods.

    Those who fondly imagine that the UK wont be paying something really ought to go out and get their bumps felt 🙂

    • The UK has been paying in buckets since 1973 and more plus losing sovereign rights etc. There is a very famous Not The Nine’O Clock sketch from the 80’s about it.

    • As the UK currently has a trade deficit with the EU, the EU would only hurt themselves. Forcing the UK to find other markets to trade with will only diminish the EU. Do they think that the UK will simply roll over and pay the higher costs, or will they trade where the getting is good. Many of the things the EU is doing internally are violations of the WTO treaties. They overtly subsidize many markets (not even talking tax credits here) in violation with WTO trading rules. If they decide to “punish” the UK for leaving, they will only accelerate the fall of the EU economy. The UK currently has one of the best functioning financial markets in Europe and if the EU doesn’t want to cut their own throat, they will stop making idle threats. Then there is the whole issue of the UK closing its fishing grounds to foreign vessels – a huge howl will come from EU countries on that one. Pain won’t be one directional if the commissars of the EUSSR decides to punish its “wayward pet”.

      • Except, since the golden age of St Margaret of Grantham, much of UK business in now owned by foreign interests who will go where the getting is good. So expect a ‘Liberated’ EU to be offering sweeteners for relocation to parts east ?

        As far as fishing goes, the UK fleet is so miniscule now that it could not capitalise on a sudden bonanza. Even as things stand, 98% of that which the UK fleet catch is sold to the EU. However if you’re right about the fishing, maybe whats on offer at ones local chippy will be more affordable, like it used to be back in the day 🙂

      • Hurting the economy is never a problem in Europe.

        In order to please the US, the European agricultural exporting countries accepted to lose their markets in Russia. To punish Russia for a military act we don’t sell them fish and porc. That will teach them… to develop their own production.

        Now Russia is STRONGER economically, French producer took most of the impact, the US did nothing except keep on buying rocket engines and rocket services to Russia and French politicians aren’t even mad at Obamrump.

        French politicians are mad at the US almost only for silly reasons like the fact a French bank that acted illegally in the US, for years, then lied about it, pretended to stop and went on acting illegally, financing some of the worst regimes in Africa, ended with a fine. Because François Hollande considered finance “his enemy” – except when they finance dirty regimes I guess.

        So in France:
        – applying US laws in the US: not OK (some even called the US a rogue country for doing that)
        – asking France to fund NATO and its own defense (last time we tried launching missiles from a ship in a real military operation, failure rate was 100%): not OK
        – making France drop a major export market, badly harming farmers, for no rational reason: OK

        The US and Europe have effectively done the biding of Putin with that operation.

      • “Many of the things the EU is doing internally are violations of the WTO treaties”

        I don’t know much about WTO norms, but anyone with a passing interest in the workings of Europe knows that in term of “free and unbiased market” principle of European laws, the whole German electric market is absolutely, definitively, no debate possible, illegally rigged.

        The Germans can absolutely force higher energy costs on them with silly norms, but then they can’t absolve some big consumers from these norms and costs; in other words, if the very small plants pay a high price for electricity, then big consumers must pay also. That is transparent, obvious, in your face illegal state aid.

        Germany has been violating the most serious, basic, essential norm of the internal market with zero repercussion and zero criticism from lawmakers, elected officials or politicians.

        So anyone who complains that UK might break its commitments when they effectively leave the EU institutions should be strongly castigated for allowing Germany to break basic principles forever.

  23. This is yet another example of why the UK has left the undemocratic, incompetent and evil EU (better known as the EUSSR).

    • I dunno. They are not that bad. Belgium is blessed with the most extensive, lit, road network in the whole EU. Must be all those solar panels installed.

  24. As a Brit, let me say, who gives a toss. We trade at a loss of €100 billion with the EU. Anything we can do to limit that trade will benefit us.

    If they want to get arsey, it will cost them a lot more.

  25. Clauswitz said “[trade] war is the continuation of diplomacy by other means”. The word in the square brackets is my up-dated version.

  26. Let’s ask Pascal Canfin if he supports offering immediately, unconditionally, strictly “for free”, all EURATOM freedoms to UK, in order to avoid any issue on starting the EDF built and (hopefully) run UK “EPR” reactor(s)?

    That is freedom to trade uranium and MOx and all related devices and technologies.

    Ask real questions. Put Mr Canfin “under the gun”.

  27. I assume UK will remain in the Nord Pool Group and the North Sea cable Denmark to England cable will go ahead as planned!?

    I wonder if the electricity trading, mostly import to UK, will continue business as usual. If not, maybe UK is in for a rough time. UK seems very dependent on supply from France, which I interpret at a deficit in UK’s own base power capacity. If UK runs into supply issues, they can resolve this by increasing the price per kWh or turn flexible by building some modern coal power plants in a hurry 🙂

  28. If I was a minister I’d be very cautious about getting involved with COP26. It’s going to fail – as has the Paris Agreement.
    (Btw what was the SADDEST thing about the Paris Agreement? When the Agreement was reached by adjusting ‘will’ to ‘should’ the entire Press Office exploded with joy. Not a single crusty cynical old journo said. ‘Hey chaps, this is all crap, isn’t it?

  29. The UK should refuse to pay a £ in carbon taxes.

    What’s going to happen? Will UK get kicked out of the EU?…

    It’s delightful the EU showed so quickly the UK made the right decision to escape the tyranny of these unelected EU hacks.

  30. Pace Ursula (fond’a Lyin’), it is the rump EU that risks “splendid isolation” with their carbon border adjustment scheme.

  31. Socialist Europe was put in its place the last time it tried to impose ’emissions’ trading on unwilling trading partners. In 2011, or thereabouts, they proposed to apply the European ’emissions’ trading scheme to all aircraft flights within and to and from Europe. It is claimed that several countries threatened retaliation – for example:
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/mar/09/airbus-eu-carbon-trading-chinese?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
    and:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airshow-idUSTRE81C0H120120213
    Europe resiled from the proposal, limiting it only to flights within Europe.
    https://www.transportenvironment.org/state-aviation-ets

    Europe’s ETS only covers a portion of Europe’s aviation emissions – flights within Europe, roughly equal to 40% of emissions from the sector. The coverage was limited following intense industry and international pressure to exclude flights to and from Europe from the scheme, ostensibly to give the UN aviation agency ICAO time to develop a global measure – a solution which will not deliver an effective price on aviation emissions.

    The article suggests that a kerosene tax is needed:

    The ETS operates by requiring airlines to surrender allowances (emission permits) equal to their total emissions. … Allowances under the ETS, in 2018, cost on average €20. And airlines received a large portion of its emission permits (32 million, almost half) for free.
    As a result, the total cost of compliance for airlines in 2018 was an estimated €700 million. …
    … the current ETS price is short of what is required in order to drive emission reductions within the sector. And, in contrast, a kerosene tax set at the EU minimum of 33 cents/litre could make a far greater contribution to covering aviation’s external costs and cutting emissions. In total it would raise €9.2bn a year.

    That figure of €9.2bn must be very tempting for government. But will it make any difference, other than to raise another small fortune for government to waste – and of course, knocking some of those beastly lower-class people out of the travel market, making tourist destinations less crowded for the ruling class? [Beastly lower-class people – carbon based beings! Is that what the elites mean when they refer to ‘carbon pollution’!] Under extreme pressure from airlines, aero engine manufacturers have made enormous gains in reducing fuel consumption. A tax will not change what is already happening.
    A lot of dreamers are fantasizing about lithium battery powered electric aircraft, just as they are fantasizing about lithium battery powered cars. But issues such as charge time, gradual degradation of performance, explosions, fire and thermal runaway make them impractical and scary. Electric powered vehicles will become practicable in the future as new materials are developed that give us instantly-rechargeable, deep-cycling ultra-capacitors. Here’s an example of what is happening today:
    https://www.skeletontech.com/ultracapacitor-technology

  32. “French MEP Pascal Canfin told reporters on Monday (27 January) that the EU “should be tough” and “shouldn’t be afraid of an economic no-deal in December”, as the next round of Brexit-based negotiations loom on the horizon.”

    Though guy is (pretends to be) though on UK.

    Not so much on China and India…

  33. I remember when the tea party brought up the issue of a potential border adjustment tax. The world was up in arms on this purported injustice. When in fact border adjustment taxes are a pretty good way to equalize for any kind of unjust issue some producer that exports into your market have. Of course its also some sort of protectionism but if this is what a single country wants, who are we to deny it to them? Boris could ignore all those calls and start making Britain really competitive. Strengthen small and medium-sized business, hacking away on regulation overkill, providing a basis for cheap energy, … Wealth is good for the environment.

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