Will eco-activists kill billions to save the world?

Reposted from the Fabius Maximus website,

By Larry Kummer, Editor / 4 Comments / 12 January 2020

Summary: A few days ago I asked about scenarios plausible but radical and unexpected (not the usual ones about tech changes or disasters). I described a few. Here’s another. Leftists believe we are killing the world. Might some act on their beliefs and kill billions to save the Earth? Here are two films about such eco-warriors. Also, see the bipartisan note at the end.

Every year universities produce another horde of young men and women convinced that humanity is destroying the world – and that the end will come soon. Journalists repeat the message because it is good for business (the Crisis Crisis). A legion of organizations broadcast such messages because it is good for business (good news raises no funds). This has become the mantra of the Democratic Party (a frightened people are easily led).

These are educated people. Many are affluent. Some are rich. What if some decide to act on their beliefs – and take drastic action to save the world? Hollywood has shown us how this might happen. They show the killers as the bad guys, but their portrayal shows some agreement by Team Hollywood with their goals. Here are chilling quotes from two recent films.

Kingsman: The Secret Service

Available at Amazon.

Kingsman: The Secret Service (2014).

“We are past the point of no return, no matter what remedial actions we take.”

“When you get a virus, you get a fever. That’s the human body raising its core temperature to kill the virus. Planet Earth works the same way. Global warming is the fever, mankind is the virus. We’re making our planet sick. A cull is our only hope. If we don’t reduce our population ourselves, there’s only one of two ways this can go: the host kills the virus, or the virus kills the host. Either way the result is the same: the virus dies.”

“Well if we don’t do something, nature will. Sometimes, a culling is the only way to ensure that the species survives. And history will see Valentine as the man who saved humanity from extinction.”

“Humankind is the only virus cursed to live with the horrifying knowledge of its host’s fragile mortality.”

“Mankind is the virus, and I’m the cure.”

“Today is a day of celebration. We must put aside all thoughts of death, and focus on birth. The birth of a new age. We mustn’t mourn the ones who give their lives today. We should honor their sacrifice, and their role in saving the human race. We must put aside doubts and guilt. You are the chosen people. When folks tell their kids the story about Noah’s Ark, is Noah the bad guy.”

Spoiler: the film shows widespread killing across the world. Tens of millions die, perhaps more. There is no mention or mourning at the end of the dead and injured. The meglomanic eco-killer has a partial success from his plan.

See my review: “Kingsman” is a fun warning about our elites.

Godzilla: King of Monsters

Available at Amazon.

Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019).

“The mass extinction we feared has already begun. And we are the cause. We are the infection. But like all living organisms, the earth unleashed a fever to fight this infection. Its original and rightful rulers, the Titans. They are part of the earth’s natural defense system. A way to protect the planet, to main its balance. But if governments are allowed to contain them, destroy them, or use them for war, the human infection will only continue to spread. And with our lifetime, our planet will perish, and so will we. Unless we restore balance.”

“Just like a how forest fire replenishes the soil or how a volcano creates new land, we have seen signs that these creatures will do the same. San Francisco, Las Vegas, wherever the Titans go, life follows, triggered by their radiation. They are the only thing that can reverse the destruction that we started. They are the only guarantee that life will carry on. But for that to happen, we must set them free.”
*** The film shows the monsters leveling those cities.

Spoiler: the monsters ravage the world, killing tens of millions and leveling cities. Nobody minds. At the end we learn that this was a good thing and that the world is better off. Yea!

See my review: Godzilla (2019) – the King of modern monster films.

About disaster porn

Stories exhulting in megadeaths are popular on both Left and Right. Jerry Pournelle is a best-selling conservative author. Two of his science fiction stories approvingly describe mass executions as a solution to economic and political problems. See them here, with some chilling quotes.

There’s also a thriving redemptive literature, often describing a wonderful post-apocalyptic world where the virtuous (or chastised and now wise) remnant rebuild. Even Christians indulge in these fantasies of worldly ends and beginnings. These are modeled after the story of Noah, the first and grandest in the genre. For example, see Larry Burkett’s books. Most describe economic collapses, but especially note Solar Flare (1997): billions die, leaving the remnant to construct a pure society. Yea!

For More Information

Ideas! For shopping ideas, see my recommended books and films at Amazon. Also, see a story about our future: “Ultra Violence: Tales from Venus.

Important: the Climate Emergency is a moral panic.

If you liked this post, like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter. For more information about this vital issue see the keys to understanding climate change. Also, see these posts…

  1. A look at the workings of Climate Propaganda Inc.
  2. The Extinction Rebellion’s hysteria vs. climate science.
  3. See how climate science becomes alarmist propaganda.
  4. The climate crusade marches across America!
  5. Toxic climate propaganda is poisoning US public policy.
  6. DoD study: climate change will destroy us …in 2020.
  7. Heroic Greta will be our Joan of Arc.
  8. We face so many threats. Let’s respond rationally!
  9. Collapsitarians and their doomster porn.
  10. Films show our problems and why we can’t solve them.
Trailers for these films
The Kingsman films.

The first film (trailer below) was excellent fun. The sequel, Kingsman 2: The Golden Circle, was terrible. The prequel, The King’s Man, looks great (see the trailer)!

The great trailer for Godzilla: King of the Monsters

This was a fun film, up there with the classics – such as Godzilla Vs. Mechagodzilla (1974) and Terror Of Mechagodzilla (1975).

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Mike McHenry
January 12, 2020 2:09 pm

The story of GMO golden rice and Greenpeace opposition to it make it all too plausible. If you want children to go blind what’s your limit of cruelty?

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Mike McHenry
January 12, 2020 5:33 pm

Why not save some time and ban DDT so killing poor children by the million.

Oh, wait, they already did that…

How about banning pretty harmless CFCs, thereby causing cheap refrigeration to be unavailable for the world’s poor?

Oooops, done that too…

The only thing I can think of is to make electricity too expensive for the world’s poor. Let’s try that one!

Then we can tie up 100s of billions of dollars that might have been used to provide clean water and sanitation for the world’s poor. Give it to fat balding researchers with goatees and rich subsidy farmers. That’s the ticket!

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
January 13, 2020 1:16 am

Zig Zag Wanderer

Looks like the plot of a good disaster movie.

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
January 13, 2020 2:55 am

Good comments gentlemen.

The title of this treatise is “Will eco-activists kill billions to save the world?”

Radical greens already have killed many tens of millions, mostly children, as described in my April 2019 paper (below).

Causes of death include:
– The effective ban of DDT
– Opposition to gold rice
– Discouragement/underfunding of clean water initiatives
– Discouragement/underfunding of dispatchable power initiatives.

As my paper describes, radical greens cannot all be that stupid – and depopulation to “save the planet” is their stated intent.

By Allan M.R. MacRae, B.A.Sc., M.Eng., April 14, 2019

Regards, Allan

Steve Borodin
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
January 13, 2020 5:31 am

Zig Zag Wanderer.

Excellent. We could also stop controlled burning in forests. Thus, causing a conflagration. That will kill a few more. Even better, we could blame that on Climate Change, like the Bigoted Broadcasting Corporation.

Roger Surf
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
January 13, 2020 4:03 pm

Mike and Zigzag,

Its all far simpler than anyone can imagine.

1. Electricity and gasoline rise catastrophically as foolish governments try to rely on renewables.

Farmer 1. cannot irrigate fields or use machinery. He will go bankrupt because of mortgage and other financial commitments such as his farm machinery. He is on the street.
Farmer 2. No prob with mortgage etc. but cannot get gasoline or diesel. Cant irrigate either. Machinery is useless. He may try to do things manually by employing Farmer 1. and others. The break even cost of his produce becomes many times than the previous cost, but he has produce to sell.
City Retailer runs out of produce and finds that the cost of Farmer2’s produce is horrifyingly expensive from the farm gate. However he tries to purchase some. However his supplier cant get gasoline or diesel either and Farmer 2 is as much as 100 miles away. The cost of bootleg gasoline makes the produce horrifyingly expensive and even a horse drawn wagon, if such a thing is available is likewise as expensive or more so. However some of the produce gets on City Retailers shelf.
However few people are able to purchase because of the huge cost and few people buy. For most people, the cost of transport to the retailer’s premises is quickly more than they can bear.

Retailer quickly goes bankrupt as does the suppler. As for most buyers, the cost of food is more than their incomes.
People try to sell their houses for food, that is if the bank will not try to repossess, (because of the inability to meet mortgage payments), but few are buying and the value of the house drops like a stone.

I could go on! Anyone care to guess what happens next?

Of course the big boys, like the Rockefellers, Morgan’s, the Owners of Facebook, Twitter and Amazon will likely be able to survive in spite of the above.

Others will clamor for a Communist Revolution – Good luck to them!



john cooknell
January 12, 2020 2:19 pm

Godzilla, a good documentary just like David Attenborough’s latest.

Reply to  john cooknell
January 12, 2020 2:55 pm


Great point! That reminds me of the super Godzilla of 2015-16 that climate alarmists endlessly warned us about.


How did we survive it? As usual, it was just another exaggerated (ie, false) forecast – to be put down the memory hole so as not to ruin the next one.

January 12, 2020 2:21 pm

Pournelle is no climate alarmist, Pournelle, Niven and Flynn wrote Fallen Angels, a book length critique of climate hysteria and unscientific eco-lunacy wrapped into an entertaining story.

I haven’t read Condominium, but the Pournelle disaster stories I have read, they don’t make it seem nice. Lucifer’s Hammer, about a giant series of comet strikes which wrecks civilisation and plunges the world into a new ice age, it has cannibals, treachery, the good guys end up using horrible weapons to defend one of the last outposts of civilisation.

Reply to  Eric Worrall
January 12, 2020 2:51 pm


(1) “Pournelle is no climate alarmist, ”

The post didn’t say he was. Please re-read that paragraph more carefully.

(2) “Pournelle disaster stories I have read, they don’t make it seem nice”

I specifically said in “Two of his science fiction stories …” – and in those two the effects were described as “nice”. I didn’t say it was “nice” in all of his stories.

Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 3:11 pm

Sorry Larry

Reply to  Eric Worrall
January 12, 2020 3:56 pm


I’m impressed. The number of people who acknowledge errors is tiny. Smaller than tiny. Sad, since that is the first step to learning.

I track my big mistakes on the Smackdowns page. There are too many, but these have taught me to be more careful than I otherwise would be.

Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 6:16 pm

@Larry – I would suggest you pull those two books back off of your shelf, and read them again. Perhaps with a bit more attention to what is WRITTEN on the pages.

There are NO “mass executions” in these books. Period. There IS “war to the knife” – against a “revolution” originating with a mass dumping of criminal elements on the planet of Sparta by the hostile elements of the CoDominium. Elements that WILL, if successful, raise a vicious terrorist to absolute dictatorship, while killing off those who actually BUILT the infrastructure of the planet (at least, those that they do not enslave instead).

The books are not about “making the world a better place” – they are about “not becoming a hellhole of tyranny and poverty.”

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Eric Worrall
January 12, 2020 3:22 pm

Pournell is past tense. Born: August 7, 1933, Shreveport, LA. Died: September 8, 2017, Studio City, CA. Requiescat in Pace.

Reply to  Walter Sobchak
January 12, 2020 3:57 pm


Thanks for mentioning that. RIP.

He’s a loss, a smart experienced imaginative voice of the kind we need more of. A great author, too.

Matthew Bergin
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
January 12, 2020 4:07 pm

I’m sad I enjoyed his writing. Actually that whole group are great. King David’s spaceship was one of my favorites.

John in Oz
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
January 12, 2020 4:20 pm

George Orwell died in 1950 but ‘1984’ is still the greenies playbook.

Alan the Brit
Reply to  John in Oz
January 13, 2020 12:07 am

Yes & that is most curious! That is because the very thing that George Orwell was warning against in his book, is the very thing that the Greenalists are campaigning for, totalitarian domination of the World by them, DAISNAID, Do As I Say, Not As I Do (courtesy of Prof John Brignall)! I’m becoming convinved that the UN’s Agenda 21 was written using 1984 as a reference book, with vengeful retribution against anyone who defies the powers that be!

Reply to  Alan the Brit
January 13, 2020 1:12 am

Orwell was aware of the agenda. Agenda 21, was conceived well before Orwell was even born

Guy Dombrowski
Reply to  Eric Worrall
January 12, 2020 6:23 pm

I have read Lucifer Hammer when it came out.
Great read. One of the villains was a religion loon that wanted civilisation to end and was trying
to destroy the only nuclear power station still working.
But the returned astronaut used his speed boat to take him out.
Very similar to our green loons.

Reply to  Guy Dombrowski
January 12, 2020 6:32 pm


“I have read Lucifer Hammer when it came out.”

Great point! Contrast that with the Pournell-Niven book Footfall. There the fanatic greenie is angry at the aliens that dropped an asteroid on the world. A reporter recruits his help to blow the whistle on the “Gabriel” – a warship powered by dropping a-bombs under it.

The Green wants the aliens dead more than he worries about the a-bombs’ damage. He kills the report. Being a good green, he puts the body into the compost pile.

BTW, that was a spoiler!

Both are great books!

January 12, 2020 2:23 pm

This is one of a new series of “Friday Funnies” at the FM website.

In ClownWorld, the only humor is gallows humor.

Mark Pawelek
January 12, 2020 2:25 pm

My rational mind says no: eco-activists will not kill billions. But when I look at the lessons of history I’m less sure. Look at the harm done by eugenics and communism. Tens or hundreds of millions killed. Do good mentality allows itself vast scope for evil. Such mentality assumes its good motives ensure good outcomes. Yet it’s often not the people promoting the intolerant ideology who do bad things. It’s people who accept this ideology as common sense; which seems to be the majority.

Malcolm andrew bryer
Reply to  Mark Pawelek
January 12, 2020 8:56 pm

Quite so. Euthenasia theory was wholeheartedly adopted by the Nazis who decided that Jews were the virus on the planet and acted accordingly. Darwins theory of survival of the fittest was applied to humanity and spawned racism. In both cases it was the brilliant minds of such people as George Bernard Shaw who spread the doctrine claiming at the same time that they were socialists interested only in the welfare of humankind.
Beware those who fall ibn love with their own minds and claim to adhere to a theory above all else and worse, believe in their own infallibility.

Russ Wood
Reply to  Mark Pawelek
January 14, 2020 7:43 am

CS Lewis said it:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)

January 12, 2020 2:36 pm

You got the question inverted. Will billions kill eco-activists to save the world?

Paul Penrose
Reply to  2hotel9
January 14, 2020 9:43 am

Sadly, it could easily come down to that.

Reply to  Paul Penrose
January 14, 2020 10:33 am

When ya keep poking a bear with a stick it will eventually attack.

January 12, 2020 2:39 pm

Planned populations and clinical cannibalism are ancient prescriptions. Everything old is new again.

Reply to  n.n
January 12, 2020 3:17 pm


“Everything old is new again.”

Great point! History is the repetition of tropes. It’s infinite variety comes from the unlimited number of different combinations.

Now if we would just learn from it …

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 4:10 pm

“It’s infinite variety”


Reply to  Jeff Alberts
January 12, 2020 4:49 pm


My iphone has its own ideas about spelling and grammar. I don’t always have the time or energy to argue with it.

Jeff Mitchell
Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 10:10 pm

If you can argue with us, you can backspace and override your phone.

I see lots of misspellings and grammar mistakes. Wrong words like lose or loose and many similar words. Some are typos, others are ignorance. You might want to consider being grateful to people who are willing to teach you which is which.

Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 6:20 pm

Semantic games, yes. Also, choices, practices, and solutions. The “eco-activists” indulge a greater margin of error.

Alan the Brit
Reply to  Larry
January 13, 2020 12:11 am

Didn’t someone once say that those who ignore &/or forget the follies of the past, are destined to repeat it?

Abolition Man
January 12, 2020 2:43 pm

Since CAGW hysteria is part of the radical, death cult of Progressivism, I would say the odds are quite good that some indoctrinated true believer will pull the trigger soon. They’ve been killing people in the Third World for decades now with the bans on DDT, golden rice and coal power for electricity; why would they stop the slaughter when they are apparently winning. Until good people of all races and religions rise up and throw out these worshippers of death and destruction the slaughter of innocents will continue!
Progressivism is now the state religion of Western academia and media; much like the Nazis of Germany but without the science and engineering! They have already propose criminal trials and concentration camps for deniers; how long until they hit upon the Final Solution? I’d say many of them are there already! Didn’t St. Greta the Carbonless speak of “lining them up against the wall” already? As long as the religion of Progressivism is taught in our schools we will be at risk!

Dave Fair
January 12, 2020 2:49 pm

Why would the last 30-year warming trend be attributed to anthro alone? This is the trend that FM indicates would lead to a 1C increase in world temperature by 2070.

Reply to  Dave Fair
January 12, 2020 3:20 pm


“This is the trend that FM indicates would lead to a 1C increase in world temperature by 2070.”

As Willis says, comments would be more useful if you quoted what you were replying to.

Anyway – I don’t “indicate” anything in this post. Those are (as clearly stated) just quotes from the films. Whether they are said by the heroes or villains depends on your point of view.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 5:26 pm

Larry, I was referring to one of the links to material you had previously posted on your site. It was your analysis of the various temperature trends for different time periods, divided over the entire period of 1880 to 2019. IIRC, the 30-year period ending 2019 had a temperature trend of about a third of a C/decade. You wrote that the resulting 1 C increase by 2070 would cause (unspecified) problems for humanity unless mitigation measures were undertaken.

Sorry for the confusion, but the question remains: Why the assumption that the past temperature increase was solely anthro, and would continue through the next 30-year period?

January 12, 2020 2:57 pm

An major eruption of the Yellowstone super volcano would solve global warming, and possibly “over population”.

Reply to  joe
January 12, 2020 3:22 pm


True. As would impact by a large asteroid of any one of countless other natural disasters.

But those “acts of God” are very different than the deliberate acts described in these films.

Rick C PE
Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 4:10 pm

No need for an act of God. Just ban the use of fossil fuels by 2030 and billions will be wiped out in short order.

Reply to  Rick C PE
January 12, 2020 6:07 pm

…the Green New Deal is the only popular suicide note!

Reply to  Rick C PE
January 12, 2020 6:14 pm

An act of mortal gods, a narcissistic faith, a secular religion, a divergent ideology.

Reply to  Rick C PE
January 12, 2020 6:26 pm


My reply was that Joe’s comment conflated two very different kinds of events. One are events done to us – a list of which is long. And has always been so.

The other is the subject of this post: people who kill millions or billions with the best of intentions. History has many examples. It is possible that modern tech makes this easier. Conflating these = confusion.

“Just ban the use of fossil fuels by 2030 and billions will be wiped out in short order.”

I assume you don’t seriously believe that’s possible. It’s fun but nuts, making the scenarios in these films look like tomorrow.

Reply to  joe
January 12, 2020 4:07 pm


“A major eruption of the Yellowstone super volcano would solve global warming, and possibly “over population”. ”

It wouldn’t ‘solve’ global warming. It would introduce within a couple of years such a cooling you would never wish.

It would certainly solve this ‘over population’ you write about. But again: at a level you would never wish either.

Yellowstone running out: that means supervolcano winters for a century at least.

People having allowed for shale gas/oil fracking 2,000 miles around it imho are complete ignorants.

J.-P. D.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Bindidon
January 12, 2020 4:12 pm

“J.-P. D.”

Translation: Just Plain Dumb

Reply to  Jeff Alberts
January 12, 2020 5:03 pm

Jeff Alberts

As usual: just a plain dumb reply without any valuable contents.
I’m still awaiting something intelligent from your side.

Mais… j’ai l’impression qu’il me faudra attendre encore bien longtemps pour cela, n’est-ce pas, Monsieur Alberts?

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Bindidon
January 12, 2020 5:30 pm

Sorry I don’t speak Japanese.

There was nothing worth responding to, that’s why you got the response you did.

Reply to  Bindidon
January 12, 2020 6:55 pm

Considering how dumb and content free your post was, it’s hardly surprising that people respond in kind.

Mark Luhman
Reply to  Bindidon
January 12, 2020 6:17 pm

What does gas/oil fracking have to do with a super-volcano? Magma chambers in the mantle which are 19 to 20 miles below the surface in the western North Dakota the are fracking in what use to be a sea floor and material that the inland sea left behind. The really never get to the bed rock at most the are only drilling 3 miles down, that give then to the most part at least 15 miles of some really hard rock between them and any possible magma chamber, the magma chamber in for Yellowstone is 37 miles down, it maybe a hundred miles wide not thousands. If you think oil/gas drilling with or without fracking is going to trigger a volcano your imho is about as useful as Greta’s of course Greta’s in not humble.

Reply to  Bindidon
January 12, 2020 6:57 pm

The point of bringing it up is that there are many “environmentalists” who wish to eliminate 90% or more of the human population.

Only a complete ignorant (sic) would be worried about frakking near Yellowstone, much les 2000 miles away from it.

Reply to  joe
January 13, 2020 4:52 am

yesterdays philipines one should have some effect as the dust cloud went very high
hoping it seeds clouds for the Aussie monsoons for us
and temp drops if it keeps up will muck up hottest evah claims for a while

Mark Broderick
January 12, 2020 3:02 pm

Larry Kummer

“A way to protect the planet, to main maintain ? its balance.”

Great post, thanks

January 12, 2020 3:11 pm

How can so many so-called ‘highly educated’ people believe that killing billions of their fellow humans will ‘save’ the Earth?

The Earth being a dynamic, ever-changing environment, what Elysian state of climatic utopia would such a mass killing preserve, and who would dispose of the bodies? Or will those ordering the killing simply have to put up with the smell for a while?

I think these are fair questions deserving of detailed and thoughtful answers.

BTW; loved the scene in Kingsman where those believing they are above the common herd literally lost their heads over this issue.

George V
January 12, 2020 3:13 pm

The plot of the Tom Clancy novel “Rainbow Six”, published in 1998, was about a group of elites who plan to wipe out humanity in order to save the world. They plan, of course, to leave a few thousand of their chosen few alive as a proper amount of humanity. In Clancy’s novel, the plot is foiled.

Reply to  George V
January 12, 2020 4:00 pm


Thanks for flagging that book. I’ll add it to the post.

Eric Stevens
January 12, 2020 3:13 pm

Climate alarmists keep worrying about the earth having been pushed over a ‘tipping point’.

I keep worrying about climate alarmists plus the main stream news media pushing the global population over an emotional tipping point from which it may take millenia to return.

My fear is that the disease may have no quick cure other than a major war.

Reply to  Eric Stevens
January 12, 2020 5:17 pm

It won’t be an major war because it is only an issue in democracies, those in China,Russia etc just tow the official lines and you would need massive protests in those to have any effect. It is more likely to end in trade war with some country stupid enough to put a tariff on fossil fuel derived product imports which would set off immediate retaliation.

Really the most likely result is countries doing a Venezeula to themselves.

Roger Knights
Reply to  LdB
January 13, 2020 6:01 am

“It won’t be an major war because it is only an issue in democracies ….”

Authoritarian governments around the world are the ones investing mostly in coal power and not being green crusaders: Brazil, Russia, India (Modi has authoritarian tendencies), China, (BRIC), Philippines, Turkey, Pakistan (formally democratic), etc.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Eric Stevens
January 12, 2020 5:38 pm

The “quick cure” will occur at the various ballot boxes when the costs of the green schemes are revealed in proposed legislation. In the U.S., the costs of proposed legislation must be “scored” by our Office of Management and Budget, a supposed non-partisan agency.

The costs of current unreliables were never made explicit and were, therefore, under the radar for most voters. Think of the Yellow Vest response to the arbitrary tax increases on a necessity.

Reply to  Dave Fair
January 12, 2020 9:14 pm

In Canada that SHOULD have already hppened and Junior Trudope SHOULD be gone but, oh yea, he gave millions to teh CBC and got re-elected. Propaganda = VICTORY in that case.

I am Bigly for TRUMP! but I am not so confident in his re-election. Propaganda continues on the MSM at an even higher level of BS, and somehow with TRRUMPS! continuous WINNING, the news is always he is wrong, wrong, wrong.

January 12, 2020 3:21 pm

3000 years ago, there was the Minoan Warm period.
Then 1000 years later, there was the Roman warm period, which was warmer than now.
Then 1000 years later, there was the Medieval warm period, which was warmer than now.
Then 1000 years later, came our current warm period.

Man’s use of fossil fuels DID NOT cause those earlier warm periods because they didn’t have fossil fuel. That means the cause was natural.

Why does anyone think that whatever caused those earlier warm periods suddenly quit causing warm periods, only to be replaced by man’s CO2 perfectly in time with earlier cycles 1000 years apart?

Simon Cove
Reply to  JimK
January 12, 2020 4:07 pm

There’s a couple of points that need making here. Biodiversity is a good thing. If you want your baby to be cured the next time antibiotic resistance rears it’s head (and it’s getting worse) damn well hope that some nerdy biologist is harvesting fungus that kills spiders or cane toad exudate for study In some deepest darkest rainforest or swamp. Also the planet is finite (obviously). however I don’t think we are at execution stage of humans and even if we were, the nerdy lefties are blatantly going to be useless at it. If you had an article saying one of the world dictators was going to wipe out a nation it would probably be a little more likely.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Simon Cove
January 13, 2020 3:57 am

My interpretation of “billions killed” is that it refers to the likely outcome of halting all use of fossil fuels without having any viable means to replace everything that we get from the usage of them.
Few of the alarmists who want to keep fossil fuels in the ground are in favor of nuclear power, and many if not most of them are actually firmly against any usage of nuclear power.
Ditto for the other means of producing substantial amounts of baseload power which does not involve burning anything, that being hydro power. Many alarmists consider hydro power to be unrenewable and actually want to demolish the existing hydroelectric dams.
Such people are advocating for policies that will result in the elimination of the means by which the majority of the 7+ billion people on this planet are able to sustain their existence.
Besides for inferring that such people are indifferent to the resulting deaths, many have come right out and stated that eliminating a large portion of humanity is not just desirable but necessary.

I do not think it is overstating the case in any way to say that what warmistas are advocating for is the deaths of billions of people, whether or not they admit it in so many words.
Whether or not they are merely ignorant of what will result from the policies they advocate for is irrelevant.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
January 13, 2020 8:58 pm

The eco-loons should all be in favor of space exploration to find some place besides Earth to live. Let them try to establish utopia on Mars or the Moon. Then with all of the hand-wringers gone, maybe those of us left here on Earth can have some peace and thereby experience our own utopia.

Reply to  Simon Cove
January 13, 2020 7:54 am

Warm weather increases bio-diversity.
The claims of a great die off are just another set of lies from the guys that specializes in lies.

Reply to  JimK
January 12, 2020 4:10 pm


I don’t believe every single post at WUWT needs that pointed out, irrespective of its relevance to the post.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 4:13 pm


Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 7:00 pm

Which is why you have the rest of us. We add those details that you feel are beneath you.

Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 8:42 pm

Larry wrote–“I don’t believe every single post at WUWT needs that pointed out,”
If this was directed at me, I do not understand since this is the first time I posted this in this non-scientific form and probably the third in any form.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  JimK
January 17, 2020 10:01 am

Jim, what you posted was not relevant to the topic, and attempts to “explain” climate change in a single comment. That’s what Larry was referring to.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  JimK
January 12, 2020 4:26 pm

“Why does anyone think that whatever caused those earlier warm periods suddenly quit causing warm periods,”

Good question! Why indeed.

The answer is the alarmists don’t think those mechanism quit working they just pretend they quit working and blame all temperature increases on CO2, although they don’t blame the temperature increase from 1910 to 1940 on CO2, a temperature increase of the same magnitude as the temperature increase from 1980 to the present.

Alarmists cannot acknowledge warm temperatures in the past because it destroys their claim that today is the hottest in human history. So they lie and try to rewrite history.

Mark Luhman
Reply to  Tom Abbott
January 12, 2020 6:22 pm

Exactly right, the same for and weather event of presently the Australian bush fires, or this summers in California. God forbid we look at history, if we do it destroy the value of the snake oil we are selling.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
January 12, 2020 8:40 pm

“Alarmists cannot acknowledge warm temperatures in the past”
Thank you – precisely why we need to relentlessly remind them, especially with arguments the DO NOT require any scientific background.

Another such argument is that some Viking Greenland farms are still under permafrost as are some graves.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
January 12, 2020 9:51 pm

Neither the Minoan, Roman nor Medieval warm periods were as warm as it is now. None of those periods was universally warm nor warm at the same time in the same places – like it is now.

The temperature increase of 1910 to 1940 was not of the same magnitude as the temperature increase from 1980 to the present.

Plenty of supporting evidence for the modern period being warmer but Andy May’s post from couple of years ago will do.

If you can provide anything more recent (that doesn’t end in 1850) I’d be much obliged.

Reply to  Loydo
January 12, 2020 10:29 pm

Loydo wrote: “Neither the Minoan, Roman nor Medieval warm periods were as warm as it is now. None of those periods was universally warm nor warm at the same time in the same places � like it is now.’ Using Marcott, et al. (2013), as a source.

GIVE US A BREAK form fake science. that was thoroughly debunked years ago.

Reply to  Loydo
January 13, 2020 5:17 am

And yet everything you claim is wrong, as usual. Do you get paid by the post or by the word? All the blahblah you type it must be by the word.

Reply to  Loydo
January 13, 2020 9:05 am

More lies.
The Minoan, Roman and Medieval warm periods were all 1 to 3C warmer than it is today.
The Holocene optimum was as much as 5C warmer than it is today.

Reply to  Loydo
January 13, 2020 1:00 pm

Neither the Minoan, Roman nor Medieval warm periods were as warm as it is now.

Another fact free post from Loudo.

Global warming activists and media outlets are hyping a new study published in Science that claims the Earth is experiencing unprecendted temperatures. See: New York Times: Global Temperatures Highest in 4,000 Years & Associated Press: HEAT SPIKE UNLIKE ANYTHING IN 11,000 YEARS

But the new study is counter to a preponderance of existing peer-reviewed studies showing the Medeiveal Warm Period and the Roman Warming were both as warm or warmer than today without benefit of modern emissions or SUVs.

Penn State Professor Michael Mann has made similar claims of modern temperatires being the warmest, but such “Hockey Stick” temperature claims have been demolished in the scientific literature.

The latest research clearly reveals that the Medieval Warm Period (used to be referred to as the Medieval Climate Optimum) has been verified and was in fact global, not just confined to the Northern Hemisphere.

The Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change reported in 2009 that the “Medieval Warm Period was: (1) global in extent, (2) at least as warm as, but likely even warmer than, the Current Warm Period, and (3) of a duration significantly longer than that of the Current Warm Period to date.”

In addition, The Science and Public Policy Institute reported in May 2009: “More than 700 scientists from 400 institutions in 40 countries have contributed peer-reviewed papers providing evidence that the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) was real, global, and warmer than the present. And the numbers grow larger daily.”

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Gator
January 14, 2020 4:51 am

We don’t even have to go back to the Medieval Warm Period to find periods in the past when it was just as warm as today, all we have to do is go back to the 1930’s. We have unmodified temperature records from all over the world that show the 1930’s were just as warm as it is today, in some cases, like the United States, it was even warmer in the 1930’s than today.

We have written records of all this. There is no need to go back to the Middle Ages for evidence because we have all the evidence we need in the unmodified temperature records of recent history.

And then along came the Climategate Charlatans with their attempts to erase all these historical records and create a false temperature profile that erases the warmth of the 1930’s because that warmth destroys their human-caused climate change claims.

But the Climategate Charlatans didn’t have the wherewithal to destroy all the old records so we can see the fraudulent changes they have made to the temperature record. Now, if we can just get the politicians to see what we see. They are still mesmerized by the fraudulent Hockey Stick chart and are making bad decisions as a consequence.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Loydo
January 14, 2020 4:33 am

Loydo: “The temperature increase of 1910 to 1940 was not of the same magnitude as the temperature increase from 1980 to the present.”


Q&A: Professor Phil Jones

Phil Jones is director of the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia (UEA), which has been at the centre of the row over hacked e-mails.

The BBC’s environment analyst Roger Harrabin put questions to Professor Jones, including several gathered from climate sceptics. The questions were put to Professor Jones with the co-operation of UEA’s press office.

“A – Do you agree that according to the global temperature record used by the IPCC, the rates of global warming from 1860-1880, 1910-1940 and 1975-1998 were identical? . . .

So, in answer to the question, the warming rates for all 4 periods are similar and not statistically significantly different from each other.”

end excerpts

What do you say now, Loydo? There’s one of the chief Climate Alarmists saying you are wrong.

Reply to  JimK
January 12, 2020 5:25 pm

Thanks for this. I’m new here and first time i’ve seen it.

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  JimK
January 15, 2020 12:52 pm

You’ve left some things out.

The Medieval warm period was warmer than now;
The Roman Warm Period was warmer than the Medieval warm period;
The Minoan Warm Period was warmer than the Roman Warm Period;

And 5,000 years ago – 9,000 years ago, the Holocene CLIMATE OPTIMUM was warmer than the Minoan Warm Period, and the warmest period of the entire Holocene.

So the “long term trend” in the Earth’s temperature is DOWN – each warm period has been cooler than the last, despite the supposed “contribution” of rising CO2 levels (which is essentially nothing more than hypothetical bullshit) to the current, and coolest, warm period.

So your question is well founded.

Another question you might consider: Why are historical warm periods called a “climate OPTIMUM?!” Do you suppose it’s because the weather was so BAD?!

I think not. WARM climate is BETTER, not worse. That’s one of the biggest myths the Climate Fascists have sold to people.

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
January 15, 2020 12:54 pm

…parenthetical to the last paragraph (The notion that “warming” means “worse weather.”)

Reply to  JimK
January 16, 2020 8:26 am


Those periods has never been. Look Michael Mann´s reconstruction, and you see. That, and powerful propaganda a´la Joseph Goebbels, is THE truth today.

Walter Sobchak
January 12, 2020 3:25 pm

The good news is that our elites, who bear these heinous views, are completely alienated from the institutions, such as the military and the police, that would provide them with the weapons they would need to execute their plans.

Reply to  Walter Sobchak
January 12, 2020 4:14 pm


“are completely alienated from the institutions, such as the military and the police, that would provide them with the weapons they would need to execute their plans.”

That’s true in a normal sense. But for generations, people have feared “super-empowered” individuals who can change the world with only a small group of supporters. That’s been the subject of many books and films – including the ones in this post. I discuss that in this post:


Rich Davis
Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 5:22 pm

Notwithstanding that it’s a longstanding fear, it’s not a realistic one, in my view.

Reply to  Rich Davis
January 12, 2020 6:17 pm


“it’s not a realistic one, in my view.”

That is over my pay grade to say.

There is a big literature about “super-empowered individuals.” I think that’s missing the point (imo, these people have read too many comic books).

But we have private pools of capital on a scale formerly available only to large governments, large numbers of true believers, and concentrations of brilliant minds without many precedents. Who can say what might become possible? Which is the point of this post.

In our time, we need a wide imagination to see the possible futures.

Reply to  Larry
January 16, 2020 9:14 am


If those “super-empowered individuals”= money, decide to buy governments (if they haven´t already?), everything is possible.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
January 12, 2020 5:18 pm

Yes, I agree, Walter. We haven’t got much to worry about with scenarios like this.

Also, I am extremely skeptical that any shadowy elites within governments, assuming that they exist, would be daft enough to actually believe the cultist CAGW doctrines, as opposed to spouting the nonsense as a way to mobilize useful idiots.

The extinction rebellion is a case in point—designed to control the easily-led sheeple by cynical elites who have other agendas than genocide to save the planet. They are probably driven by money (it’s big business to install unreliable energy and be in control of financial markets trading carbon indulgences).

There’s no profit in genocide and no motive unless you truly believe the end-of-the-world nonsense and somehow imagine it to be self-preservation.

There is no risk of imminent climate catastrophe and any nefarious elites out there certainly know that. It strains all credulity that enough people in a position with power to act would be so deluded or that not enough of us would resist.

I’m not saying that the failed communists are not perpetually trying to use climate change to bring about revolution. I just doubt they can mobilize enough useful idiots to ever get anywhere with their schemes. And certainly if governments actually went through with the impossible dream of eliminating fossil fuels, that would cause billions of deaths. But they will never be able to maintain a program that is killing thousands of people, let alone billions.

January 12, 2020 3:25 pm

You forgot about Thanos. Thanos is a Greenie.

Peter Morris
Reply to  SMC
January 12, 2020 3:42 pm

Yes! I was going to comment on this myself. You might say he’s the ultimate environmentalist.

Reply to  SMC
January 12, 2020 3:59 pm


Thanos! How could I have forgotten about him (or Him). I’ll add that to the post.

Thank you for reminding me!

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  SMC
January 12, 2020 4:23 pm

Looks kinda like a Blue Meanie to me.

Reply to  Jeff Alberts
January 12, 2020 6:20 pm


A Blue Meanie from our nightmares!


Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Larry
January 13, 2020 10:25 am


Peter Lewis Hannan
January 12, 2020 3:27 pm

Dan Brown’s novel “Inferno” has a biochemist who designs a virus to sterilise a good part of the human species; the film version changes the ending (without spoiling).

January 12, 2020 3:31 pm

Did Prince Philip consult on Kingsman? Small intellect, but lots of wet dreams thinking about it.

January 12, 2020 4:02 pm

Best bit of Kingsman …was lusting after Sofia Boutella as Gazelle

Reply to  saveenergy
January 12, 2020 5:21 pm

Save Energy,

My favorite was the Swedish princess, Tilde. Not only was she one of the few moral elites, she was smart and hot.

Stephen Skinner
January 12, 2020 4:02 pm

Sir David Attenborough said “Humans are a plague on the Earth that need to be controlled by limiting population growth”. What a terrible and irresponsible thing to say that has the potential for unintended AND intended consequences.
He fails to be aware of the general trajectory of humanity which is experiencing increasing wealth while birth rates are falling irrespective of religion. The population growth has been due to people not dying and not more babies being born, which means we must be doing something right? So lets do more of what we are doing right and less of what doesn’t work, and surely all those well intention-ed and ‘well educated’ eco-activists are able to work out which is which?

Reply to  Stephen Skinner
January 12, 2020 5:24 pm


Perhaps Attenborough should be classified as a moderate among the Greens, since he only wants to limit our fertility – not our lives.

Small mercies.

Rod Evans
Reply to  Larry
January 13, 2020 1:31 am

It is well to remember, Attenborough or Boaty as he is now called in well informed circles, is not very bright. He has no science qualifications and possesses only one very modest skill. That skill is to read from an auto cue what someone has told him to say. Beyond that Boaty is lost for words.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  fred250
January 12, 2020 4:17 pm

Someone already posted it ot in another thread. Just don’t.

January 12, 2020 4:16 pm

If the eco-activists policies are actually implemented, then eco-activists will kill billions due to starvation. There will be no way grow great quantities of food nor any way to ship the food. Which means people will have to leave cities and perform physically difficult work like our ancestors once did. Most soy latte drinkers would not survive a day of hard physical labor in the hot sun and no air conditioner. Eco-activists can pontificate how we are ruining the earth only because of the very things they abhor. Without fossil fuels, they would need to work all day just to survive until tomorrow. Which means no free time to protest.

January 12, 2020 4:24 pm

Well … just saying… the endpoint is obvious.

We don’t need to KILL millions … err, billions … of people, if the prognostications of the future are coming true in a theatre-called-Earth that we all live upon!

Just need to:

• promote widespread abortion
• give away vasectomies like Easter candies
• tax any man provably fathering more than 1 kid.
… can’t tax the women, they’re just victims.
• reëducate all men from kinderschool up, to avoid fathering kids.
• stop vaccinating babies and toddlers
• strip multi-kid families of right-to-vote
• establish gov-paid watchdogs to filter neighbor’s recycling
• imprison alleged violators of updated-code of public decency.
… remove habeas corpus rights as well. Bad people need to be quarantined.
• mandate removal of all ICE motors, worldwide.
… except for Africa and Antarctica
• mandate hard-timeline removal of ALL C-burning, worldwide.
… except for Africa and Antarctica
• set maximum allowable domestic heating to 50°F (10°C)
• set minimum allowable domestic A/C to 35°C (95°F)
• nationalize all medicine, worldwide, without exception.
• enforce all natural-path, homeopath alternative med accessability.
• send all male-pattern youth to isolateion-based reform schools.
• tax the wealthy to the 95% level. They don’t need it.
… and give to politicians and the poor. In Africa.
• Restructure the News to impose egregious fines on Fox and other “denialist” media
• Remove all weapons from all private citizens, to protect them.
• Invest as much as needed in building effective RoboCops

Wait… 2084?
Yah, that’s a problem.

⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅

John in Oz
January 12, 2020 4:24 pm

“Just like a how forest fire replenishes the soil

Apparently this is not true if one believes the panic being spread liberally about the current Australian bushfires.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  John in Oz
January 12, 2020 4:47 pm

Wrong thread?

Tom Abbott
January 12, 2020 4:35 pm

“Stories exhulting in megadeaths are popular on both Left and Right.”

Larry says the Right is just as bad as the Left.

Larry is wrong. It sounds like wishful thinking.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
January 12, 2020 5:19 pm


Try reading more carefully. That’s not what those words say.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Larry
January 13, 2020 8:13 am

That’s what those words say to me, considering you frequently seem to put forth this notion that the Left and the Right are essentially the same when it comes to violence and political chacanery.

I don’t agree with that. I think the Right is rational and the Left is irrational and there is no comparisons that can reasonably be made. So that’s why I point this out. I’m talking about the Right in the United States which is not extremist in their outlook. The Left in the United States is all about extremism. I can’t speak for the Right in other nations.

The one doesn’t equal the other, as you seem to think.

I won’t say everyone on the Left is insane but too many of them are, and there is no equivalent insanity on the Right, with the exception of TDS, and that is limited to a very few individuals.

The Right is not the Left. Not anywhere close. It’s the Left that are the violent ones. It is the Left who wants to control everyone’s lives. The Right doesn’t want any of that.

Ben Gunn
January 12, 2020 4:35 pm

Think Crispr.

January 12, 2020 4:37 pm

I may have missed it but I think he left out one of the most obvious movies that could motivate the eco-nuts to believe that eco-slaughter is a good thing, “Avengers: Endgame” – Thanos. Maybe that’s who they aspire to be, an arch-villain and mass murderer like Thanos who believes the ends justify the means.

January 12, 2020 4:56 pm

Maybe the quite enjoyable “Snowpiercer” should have been named in this category.

January 12, 2020 5:05 pm

The 9 principles of eco wackoism


Ron Long
January 12, 2020 5:10 pm

“Heroic Greta is our Joan of Arc”? Is she about to be burned at the stake, then burned again just in case? I think Greta needs some special classes to deal with her high function autism, but burning at the stake is a bit of, dare I say “overkill”!

January 12, 2020 5:16 pm

These sentiments are common among greens, and have been for years. Such as this early example by David M. Graber, a research biologist with the National Parks Service in the LA Times on 22 October 1989. Bold emphasis added.

“Human happiness, and certainly human fecundity, are not as important as a wild and healthy planet. I know social scientists who remind me that people are part of nature, but it isn’t true. Somewhere along the line–at about a billion years ago, maybe half that–we quit the contract and became a cancer. We have become a plague upon ourselves and upon the Earth.

“It is cosmically unlikely that the developed world will choose to end its orgy of fossil-energy consumption, and the Third World its suicidal consumption of landscape. Until such time as Homo sapiens should decide to rejoin nature, some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along.”


Bill Rocks
Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 6:08 pm

As to the aformentioned research biologist, he was uninformed and incorrect, at best sloppy with his stories if the LA Times article is accurate, not to mention the sick philosophy. The human species is about 200,000 years old or less according to widely accepted data. Why pay attention to anything else this so-called scientist is reported to have believed unless he provides the data to illustrate that humans are as old as, or older than the earliest primitive animals in the fossil record?

Nonsense. Discard.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 9:04 pm

Morons like Graber are why we need anti-hypocrisy laws! If he feels humans are a cancer he should do the noble thing and get himself cured! I especially like how he missed human history by only a few order of magnitude; so humans predate all other life forms except some proto-bacteria? Wow, my geology professors really missed that one!

Reply to  Larry
January 13, 2020 9:41 am

The “right virus” already exists. DA Henderson lost his fight to have the US and former USSR destroy their smallpox stocks after the successful eradication of smallpox in the wild, an effort largely led by Henderson. The USSR in all likelihood developed a variant that would not be prevented by the “current” vaccine, which is essentially the same as that discovered in 1796 by Edward Jenner. After a couple of generations, humans have little natural immunity left, and smallpox would have Ebola-like mortality rates. It is airborne and more communicable than the common cold. What should keep sane people awake at night is not a nuke for Iran, which would make a really loud noise and ruin the whole day for everyone in one city. It’s some fanatic (religious or environmentalist — but I repeat myself) getting hold of Russian weaponized smallpox and turning it loose.

If you still sleep too well, you could try the 20-year-old “The Cobra Event” by Richard Preston for laughs.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  DiogenesNJ
January 14, 2020 5:04 am

“What should keep sane people awake at night is not a nuke for Iran, which would make a really loud noise and ruin the whole day for everyone in one city.”

Well, the Mad Mullahs of Iran could detonate one nuclear weapon high over the United States which could knock out electricity for half the nation, and large numbers of people would die wating for the electricity to come back on, which might take a very long time.

No, we don’t want insane people like the Mad Mullahs to have even one nuclear weapon. We should do everything possble to prevent such an outcome.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
January 14, 2020 8:38 am

I agree with you about MMs with nukes in general, but a high-school friend spent 30+ years developing THAAD’s (Terminal High Altitude Area Defense) technology, the ancestor to the current Patriot short-range missile defense system. It is unlikely that either the Norks or a rogue Islamic regime could succeed with an EMP attack. The nuclear superpowers (Russia and China) spent many billions developing maneuverable re-entry vehicles to defeat this system, but I can’t imagine a small near-failed state or terrorist group being able to do so.

Reply to  DiogenesNJ
January 14, 2020 10:31 am

All they need are scuds and a commercial ship. No need for long range missiles at all.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  DiogenesNJ
January 14, 2020 1:24 pm

Yeah, an old tramp steamer with a skud mounted on a mobile launcher below decks, could sail right up off the coast of the U.S. and launch a nuke towards the center of the U.S where it would detonate in the atmosphere.

The U.S. might discover them before they can act, or the U.S. may intercept the missile, or it may get through. If it gets through and detonates, a lot of people are going to be in serious trouble.

Our best bet is to stop the maniacs from obtaining nuclear weapons. Nip this one in the bud for all our sakes. Nuclear weapons don’t care if you are a Democrat or a Republican.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Tom Abbott
January 14, 2020 2:53 pm

Forget the Scud: Sail into SF bay, set the timer and sail away on another boat.

Reply to  Dave Fair
January 14, 2020 2:58 pm

It needs to be an air burst to be truly effective. Besides, Dan Francisco is already destroying itself.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Gator
January 14, 2020 4:37 pm

I haven’t met Dan.

Reply to  Dave Fair
January 14, 2020 3:15 pm

Any major container port, anywhere in the world. Bury the “hotbox” below everything else, harder to detect from satellite.

Reply to  DiogenesNJ
January 14, 2020 2:26 pm

… could sail right up off the coast of the U.S. and launch a nuke towards the center of the U.S….

More likely, and more difficult for us to stop, would be a launch from a ship that sends nukes to detonate over DC, NYC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Norfolk, etc… This is the actual existential threat we face. Millions will die in such a scenario.

For what we spend on climate change in just two days, we could harden our entire national grid against such an attack. Congress should be held accountable for this gross failure, and held accountable before the attack comes.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  DiogenesNJ
January 14, 2020 5:04 pm

“For what we spend on climate change in just two days, we could harden our entire national grid against such an attack. Congress should be held accountable for this gross failure, and held accountable before the attack comes.”

That’s right, for a few billion dollars the U.S. could harden its electrical infrastructure. There has already been a commission that has studied this recently and has made recommendations to Congress. Congress should implement these recommendations as soon as possible. Very cheap insurance.

January 12, 2020 5:20 pm

Yesterday, the usual suspects tried to use the Australian bushfires to push their radical ‘climate change’ agenda.


January 12, 2020 5:25 pm

If they get their way Yes of course they will kill billions but they will claim it was by “natural causes” just as General Kyrushkov head of the KGB did.

January 12, 2020 5:31 pm

Will they kill billions? We won’t know without giving them the chance.
Are some of them willing to ‘cull’ the herd? If so, don’t ever give them a chance.

January 12, 2020 5:44 pm

This mass extinction crap is driving the media into a frenzy .
As though losing some of the billion animal species is the end of the world .
Humans are the living world and will continue to be so for ever more .
Man has created prosperity for all , other animals are just a side show .
In other words , humankind will survive as it always has .

Reply to  george1st:)
January 12, 2020 6:44 pm


For more about the stories of mass extinctions happening now (it’s a great con):


January 12, 2020 5:48 pm

I think too many of the warmists have been influenced by Godzilla. Prof. Tanaka and his beautiful daughter Michiko try to warn everyone. (Scientists always have beautiful daughters.) Evil industrialist persuades government to ignore him. Godizilla emerges and rampages round Tokyo.

What the warmists need to be told is that they won’t end up with Michiko. It is always Satoshi, the handsome Air Force officer, who gets the girl.

January 12, 2020 6:00 pm

The treehuggers / eco terrorists are dangerous people, and there is no doubt they’ll kill as many as they have to in order to ram through their agenda of destruction. If we let them, by refusing to stand up against them.

January 12, 2020 6:26 pm

Margaret Sanger would be for it, were she still alive.
And…..she’s a virtual saint to the huggers.

January 12, 2020 6:29 pm

@Larry – I chided you elsewhere, but had a second thought and figured I should give you some replacements for two poorly chosen fictional examples.

They are both series – and from an author who is at least as conservative as Dr. Pournelle was. Both fit the theme of “a mass die-off is horrible while it is happening, but the world and humanity will be the better for it.”

Look them up on Amazon, please – “The Council Wars” and “Black Tide Rising.” I don’t want this comment flushed for “commercial linking” (even though John pays me not a penny…).

Reply to  Writing Observer
January 12, 2020 6:50 pm

Writing Observer,

I don’t see your “elsewhere” comment, and don’t understand your message. I said that “disaster porn” is popular on both the Left and Right.

“Both fit the theme of ‘a mass die-off is horrible while it is happening, but the world and humanity will be the better for it.'”

I gave one example. I’m sure there are many many more.

Reply to  Larry
January 12, 2020 7:40 pm

Well, perhaps ctm zapped it… Don’t know why, either.

I assumed that you referred to Dr. Pournelle’s “Lucifer’s Hammer” or “Footfall” – until I looked at your referenced post. “Lucifer’s Hammer” can legitimately be classified as “disaster porn”; you do have to squint rather hard to put “Footfall” into that category, but it is possible.

The “Sparta” novels, on the other hand, are NOT “disaster porn.” Nor are they even about “mass executions” – for good or bad results. They are about war to the knife between the makers and the takers; about whether Sparta will retain its productive culture, or become a tyrannical poverty-ridden Marxist-style dictatorship.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Writing Observer
January 13, 2020 12:50 am

No one is ” zapping ‘ comments, from you or anyone else, on WUWT.
If comments are snipped it is noted and explained.
If one does not post, it has gone to automatic moderation.
Anyone who knows this site knows these things.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
January 13, 2020 4:57 am

It probably was there in moderation, and I did not notice. (Sigh, literal minded computers – and you never know which word or combination is on the list.)

However, I have seen some comments completely disappear on occasion. It depends, I think, on how much time the moderator of the day has, and how egregious the comment is. It takes time to edit one to snip and give the reason, time which probably shouldn’t be taken for pure garbage (spam are mostly what I have seen vanish). That WUWT moderators almost always do take that time – well, that makes this one of the most unusual heavily trafficked sites on the interwebs. PAID moderators elsewhere don’t do that.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
January 13, 2020 6:27 pm

It can sometimes take a while for anyone to get around to checking the moderation mailbox, although typically it is within one or a few hours.
And I was speaking of actual commentary…I am sure there are spam posts of the “My brother’s wife’s cousin’s son’s teacher makes $1000 ‘s in the comfort of her home in her spare time! You can too…just click on…” sort of thing.

Right now I have two in moderation (I know because the posts said so after I sent them, but often there is no such message) since the wee hours of this morning…but I am sure they will get around to them eventually…

From what I can recall reading, this site makes a point of not doing what so many other sites run by alarmists often do…disappear comments, edit them, etc.

Even formerly respectable science publications’ web sites, and those of various media outlets have long done this…scrub their boards of all inconvenient commentary.
This phenomenon alone may be why many people think that there is no real disagreement about the alarmist CAGW malarkey.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
January 14, 2020 5:15 am

“From what I can recall reading, this site makes a point of not doing what so many other sites run by alarmists often do…disappear comments, edit them, etc.”

I have had exactly one post of mine disappear completely in all the years I have posted here. Sometimes it will take a while for your post to show up, and all of mine but that one, have shown up.

The WUWT moderators do a terrific job.

January 12, 2020 8:06 pm

Will climate activists kill billions to save the planet?

They must of course.
It’s the only real solution because the real problem is humans. But they too are human so they should end with themselves.


John Robertson
January 12, 2020 8:30 pm

Gang Green would if they could.
But they have some serious handicaps, being innumerate,scientifically illiterate and non-tool users,they are pretty limited in their means.
Now being they are obviously watermelons to a man, they have had success in mass murder before, but we have seen this movie before too.
What say we take them at their word,they call us cancer and want us dead,so why do we continue to feed them?
Essentially the most clueless and useless are agitating for power, power of life and death or so it seems.
Time to banish them from technological society,let them demonstrate this brave new world, that they demand.
I just gotta see the fossil fuel free,carbon free paradise.
As long as it is Gang Green living the dream.

Nicholas McGinley
January 13, 2020 12:38 am

Lets review:
The ones who live are the anti social, people hating, ill-educated, deluded, unreasonable, unthinking, uncaring and self-centered murderers, but they will create a utopia once they are the only ones left?
We know that will work out just like they planned, huh?
Far chance.
They are also the ones who are lazy talkers, not industrious doers.
And they need their minions, lackeys, and servants to do anything that resembles actual work.
They do not care about the dying so much as the cutting off the resources to the multitude in order to hoard them for themselves. Of courss, they have no comprehension of the nature of wealth, or how things actually work in the real world, which is how it is they have their tragically wrong and stupid ideas to begin with.
A handful of such maniacs might seize the levers of power, and someday, somehow, begin to implement such plans in ernest…but even if they somehow stop all extraction of fossil fuels, the people being starved and frozen and impoverished will not simply die quietly and meekly, in pitiful clumps and hordes.
They will riot and rampage, scatter and scrounge and scrimp…
The will get skinny, get clever, get mean and nasty, brutish even. And quickly enough they will seek out the people responsible, and end them. They will access the required resources and use them.
At least, that is far more likely than any rosy scenario imagined by the lunatic green morons, panic mongers, and doomsday cultists.
More likely still is that any move to cut off needed economic resources like fossil fuels and the energy and materials and industries they provide…which BTW, as anyone paying attention knows, includes pretty much everything we refer to as “civilization”…would be so immediately economically painful and so resoundingly injurious to the livelihoods and lifestyles of so many, that it would be politically disastrous for anyone involved, to the point of being de facto political suicide for the perpetrators.
Our political systems in industrialized countries is, by necessity, rapidly self correcting.
We would never have got where we are if it were not.
The only reason this has gone so far is because of the distance of so many of us above actual poverty and deprivation.
So far, the alarmists jackasses have only made us less rich.
Places that are actually poor, it can be readily observed, have little or none of this self flagellation and self imposed impoverishment going on…except to the extent it has been imposed on them.
Lots of people may die if these maniacs get their way, true enough.
Many no doubt already have.
But it is unlikely, IMO, that self imposed poverty measures could wipe out 90% of humanity.
Or anything like that number.
People are simply too resourceful and good at surviving for that to happen.
Certain natural disasters or diseases could do so, but that is another issue.
Even if these maniacs succeeded in crashing the system for long enough to starve and freeze half of us, that would take us back to the population of the world in about 1970, IIRC.
I do not seem to be able to call to mind any worldwide utopia in those days.
In any case, few possible scenarios leave a world with a greatly reduced but technologically adept population living in harmony, with just the right balance of farmers and tradesmen and doctors and various experts and technicians, miners and foundry workers, etc…to have some well balanced social justice-ruled utopia.
The only justice in such circumstances is the law of the jungle.
The strong survive, and the lucky.

It is astounding really, that the snowflakes imagine they will be the survivors of The Great Culling!
People with no skills, dull wits, soft hands, and gratingly unpleasant mannerisms will be, in my estimation, the least likely to be among the survivors.

David Blenkinsop
January 13, 2020 1:45 am

The problem with speculating in any serious way about possible future disasters is that it amounts to playing the same game as the alarmists, right?

While I am myself admittedly a science fiction fan from way back when, in my advanced middle aged maturity I find I am disenchanted somewhat, even when it comes to most fictional disaster accounts? Having said that, I see that the head post writer here has referenced some of the better sf disaster stories, stories by Jerry Pournelle etc. As far as Kingsman movies, I saw the ‘ostentatiously bad’ sequel, which doesn’t inspire me to ever spend *any* time on the first movie.

Given the sordid excesses of the Western world today, there is one disaster that I continue to find disturbingly plausible, and that is the prospect of oligarchies like China and Russia overtaking the big democracies, by destroying any truly democratic government system or just making democracies increasingly ineffective in the world. Presumably the environmental implication of that wouldn’t be good, but who knows?

Now, show me some signs that the big fat liars of the Left are starting to show some insight, or show me that their followers are deserting them, and I’ll gladly be more optimistic! Democracy *should* be the better way, shouldn’t it?

Reply to  David Blenkinsop
January 13, 2020 7:19 am


This is not idle speculation.

This post looks at the views of influential elites in the US, promulgated in films and books. In the comments I’ve given other examples (flagged by readers).

Nicholas McGinley
January 13, 2020 3:39 am

I seem to have a comment sent to the moderation bin.

January 13, 2020 3:59 am

Well, well, well… A megadeath cult? The ecohippies ARE a megadeath cult. They want to destroy the human species? Yeah, good luck with that. They’d be the first to be disposed of. They exhibit the herd mentality that sends cattle into stampedes off a cliff.

Geezo Pete, could you guys get into any BIGGER panic attacks? If it’s megadeath you’re fretting about, why haven’t the Chinese slaughtered their excessive population? They’ve got every excuse in the book for it, don’t they?

The greenbeaners – ecohippies – whatever loons are more likely to commit mass suicide, like those people at Jonestown and the Heaven’s Gate loons, than anyone else. None of those whacko idiots at the so-called “TOP” are likely to survive, either. They are all the BORG, y’know, and resistance within their megadeath cult is futile. Those protests where they glue themselves to fences, doors and pavement are rehearsals for mass die-ins and nothing else. I’m just waiting to see it happen. Even lemmings aren’t this stupid.

Since the reality of this planet is that it’s about 35% occupied by Hoomans and the rest is open space, they have no idea how high the so-called population bomb would have to go to make it uninhabitable, because – as I keep trying to make clear – they are isolated in cities, they do NOT spend time outdoors, they live for their electronic gadgets and believe whatever trash twaddle comes out of those, but if that crap were shut down for one long week, they just might have a nasty slap from reality.

I will ask again: if the megadeath cult is so prominent and such a threat, how come the Chinese haven’t just slaughtered half a billioin or more already? Not ONE of you has an answer to that.

Sci-fi is great stuff. I spent whole Saturdays in the library stacks reading Heinlein and Asimov and others when I was 11 and 12. That speculative fiction was all about expansion and exploration and yeah, the kids save the town and the planet in ‘Have Spacesuit – Will Travel”, but nowhere did this dismal mass execution crap slip in there. The idea behind “Mothra” and “Godzilla” was to fight a common enemy, NOT destruction of the planet. “1984” and “Fahrenheit 451” were about what happens if YOU let the government become too powerful because you’re too damnably lazy to fight its decay.

Snap out of it, willya? Why do you think the gilets jaunes and Hong Kong protests and tractors on the highways have been taking place? Or are you isolated on some other planet than mine? And since there are now 5 – FIVE – confirmed SETI signals, including the original “wow” signal, from systems within 100 light years of Earth, why would you just throw your hands in the air and give up? ANSWER THAT!!!!

And get some help with your problem, because if you don’t’ have the intestinal fortitude to fight back, it’s YOUR fault that YOU let it happen. Got that? If you’re going to be slaughtered, then YOU let it happen. And if it’s about reducing population, again I ask: why have the Chinese NOT killed of half their population??????

If the ecohippies want a megadeath cult, then get them all together in one spot, put the megadeath message on speakers and start handing out the poison. They are more similar to a suicide cult than megadeath.

Reply to  Sara
January 14, 2020 4:47 am

Mods: thanks for letting this one go through. I didn’t realize what a rant it was until I counted how many times I used words that might rattle the modification genie’s door! My bad, and sorry about that.

Reply to  Sara
January 14, 2020 5:39 am

Why you down on Megadeath? Those guys rock! Sorry, couldn’t help myself. 😉

Reply to  2hotel9
January 14, 2020 8:39 am

Naw, that’s MegaDETH. Great – AWESOME -heavy metal group!

That’s not the same thing as these wackos pretending to care about “the environment and the climate”, when the things they do, and tell their members to do, are evidence that they are only interested in controlling what their followers do.

But thanks for the reminder that the real world is a better place than the cults want it to be! Think how great it might be if any of their followers got fed up and walked away from that nonsense.

Reply to  Sara
January 14, 2020 10:04 am

I await these leaders showing the world the courage and resolve of their convictions publicly. If Buddhist and Hindu monks can do it these Heroes Of The Environment can.

January 13, 2020 4:07 am

So you thought you’d give up butter for margarine idiocits? (via JoNova)

David Blenkinsop
Reply to  observa
January 13, 2020 5:54 pm

I really kinda like that video rant! Almost makes me want to go back farming.

January 13, 2020 5:35 am

Fad Diets have killed hundreds of millions of people…

Christopher Paino
January 13, 2020 7:18 am

Using movies quotes or scenes to argue a point is the same as using computer models. Useless.

January 13, 2020 7:21 am

Here is a another voice of the extinctionists – feartured in a long article on Jan 10 in The Guardian: “I campaign for the extinction of the human race” by Les Knight – “With us gone, other species will have a chance to recover.”

He is a great example of how liberal values might be a dead-end in social evolution. He has had a vasectomy, increasing the odds that the next generation will be those who have different views – and produced many children.

Geo Rubik
Reply to  Larry
January 13, 2020 10:15 am

Have you noticed people like Les never start with themselves.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Geo Rubik
January 13, 2020 10:37 am

I’d say is time for less Knight.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Larry
January 13, 2020 11:17 am

If you have Netflix, EVERY post apocalyptic movie has the plot that humans destroyed the planet.

Reply to  Larry
January 14, 2020 8:41 am

As long as he goes first, as an example of his devotion to The Cause….

Jeff Price
January 13, 2020 1:51 pm

For the Progressives the entire Eco BS is about power. It is all a power play just to gain control over the dispicables.

Nicholas McGinley
January 13, 2020 1:58 pm

Just another heads up…I have two comments in moderation from early this morning.
Both I think for using a flagged word or two.
Thank you!

Joel Snider
January 13, 2020 4:08 pm

Eco-activists have already killed more people than all the wars in history put together, with the DDT ban alone.

But with AGW, they’re getting REALLY ambitious.

January 13, 2020 6:02 pm

I have heard grandmothers speaking on this topic and affirm that the earth has 2 billion people more than it can support.

January 14, 2020 1:01 pm

Guy (he’s a far left democrat) at work and I kept going back and forth on topics, one of which was climate change. I brought up how due to the belief in CAGW, traditional power plants were not getting financed in the third world and that energy poverty kills millions every year. After asking if he was fine with that kind of annual death toll he replied (not verbatim) “Yes, we probably need to kill off at least 2 billion people anyway.”

Disgusting, I quit talking to him after that.

Joel Snider
Reply to  Darrin
January 16, 2020 8:49 am

I think I might have talked to him a little longer and told him about himself.

Rudolf Huber
January 15, 2020 1:47 pm

Most people are credulous. They will believe anything if it’s presented to them in a way that corresponds to their credulous nature. But most people are also not suicidal. As soon as they understand that it’s their lives that are on the line, the eggshell around them breaks open and they wake up. Its like with ISIS – or the Taliban. You can’t argue with those people.

January 19, 2020 11:25 am

The Day After Tomorrow comes to mind. Pure propoganda. if look back at all of the films in the last 50 years, it would be interesting study to see what were the motives of the producers of these films.

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