Guest essay by Eric Worrall
It must be Christmas; the climate grinches are trying to convince everyone to ditch the Christmas lights, and green intellectuals like Peter Ellerton of the University of Queensland are providing helpful hints on how to win the climate battle of the Christmas dinner table.
I’m a critical thinking expert. This is how you win any climate change debate like Greta Thunberg
The Conversation By Peter Ellerton
Posted Wed at 2:59pmAs bushfires rage and our cities lie shrouded in smoke, climate change is shaping as a likely topic of conversation at the family dinner table this Christmas.
…
Back to the dinner table
We may not have Thunberg’s natural aptitude for staying on topic. But we can apply the lessons to our own conversations with friends and family.
Let’s say I’m having an argument with a cranky uncle about renewable electricity. I might argue that we should transition to wind and solar energy because it generates less carbon dioxide than burning fossil fuels.
My uncle might respond by saying I shouldn’t use any energy at all. Maybe he’ll say “then stop driving cars” or “don’t turn on your TV”.
But this response is not addressing the point at issue – that renewable energy generates less carbon than fossil fuels. It is talking about something else: that any use of power is bad. Really, it’s not so much about using power as how that power is generated.
Moving off the point at issue is a classic “strawman” attack, when the argument is misrepresented and argued from that point.
…
If you need extra help, my colleagues and I have produced a paper to help analyse the rationality of climate denial claims. It also helps you find the point at issue, and stay on it.
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Read more: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-11/how-to-win-a-climate-change-debate/11787486
Back in 2014, Google engineers discovered to their horror that there is currently no viable path for replacing fossil fuel with renewable energy.
Other serious climate action advocates have made the same discovery, ranging from David Attenborough, who quietly advocates for a renewable Apollo project to solve currently insurmountable problems, to Bill Gates, who in 2015 set up a green tech fund to try to find a way to make renewables viable (though by 2019, Bill Gates had given up).
When Trump hating film maker Michael Moore decided to investigate why there was so little progress retiring fossil fuel, he thought he would find a big oil conspiracy, a network of corrupt oil executives blocking the rise of a new industry. Michael Moore did discover a dark swamp of lies and corporate greed, but not where he expected.
Former NASA GISS Chairman James Hansen’s renewable energy skepticism upset Naomi Oreskes so much Oreskes called James Hansen a “denier”. Hansen is no climate skeptic, he believes if we don’t stop global warming, the oceans will boil and render the Earth uninhabitable. Hansen is a hero and progenitor of the modern climate movement – his senate testimony in 1988 was a pivotal moment in the raising of public awareness of climate issues.
But even James Hansen believes renewable energy is not a viable solution to the rapid reduction in anthropogenic CO2 emissions he believes is needed to save the world from global warming.
Peter Ellerton, what do you call an expert on critical thinking who encourages readers to parrot green talking points on renewable energy, without addressing the substantial evidence that renewable energy is a false hope?
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renewable energy generates less carbon than fossil fuels. Does it??
During an interview at Stanford University late last year, Bill Gates slams unreliable wind and solar and made the point that it’s time to quit jerking around with renewables and batteries:
Gates, a solution focused thinker if ever there was one, hasn’t just thrown a wet blanket on wind and solar, he’s throwing his very own $millions at TerraPower – an outfit determined to develop a new wave of nuclear power plants that will safely deliver reliable and affordable power, forever.
https://stopthesethings.com/2019/11/13/system-upgrade-bill-gates-backs-new-wave-nuclear-for-worlds-clean-energy-future/#comments
Here’s the You Tube:
Bill Gates Slams Unreliable Wind and Solar Energy
Yeah, right. He can’t even come up with a decent new toilet.
Modern society would not survive without a decent toilet system. Where there is no decent toilet system you can’t have large populations live together in a small area.
I like this “old school” toilet of mine. It works great! No need to upgrade.
Yeah, right. He can’t even come up with a decent new toilet.
What was wrong with his old toilet? If it’s not broke there’s no need to fix it.
He can’t steal this from someone else. Gates will never develop anything.
Every time society made a step forward was when they discovered a cheaper way to create energy. Alternative energy can at the moment not deliver that and therefore massive (forced) use of it will lead to an economic downfall.
If you want to cleanup the environment that’s not the way to go because poor people will burn everything to achieve the energy to survive an other day.
I think Nicolas Tesla was on the right track to discover this source of free energy .
This is the elephant in the room nobody on either side will discuss. Tesla had it figured out, endless energy out of the ethers. But it couldn’t be metered and profited from so JP Morgan shut it down. And of course our elite owned government confiscated all his work when he died. Our planet has been on a skewed reality ever since.
Free energy? Isn’t that what comes out of a perpetual motion machine?
I wondered when this article was going to show up. I saw it a couple of days ago. Nice to see the author might be a qualified expert in critical thinking, but doesn’t have a scientific background. The article also has a little flow chart to dismantle sceptic arguments but I believe it can be also used to put a hole in CAGW reasoning as well. Once again the hubris is iron-clad.
As Francis Bacon said, “A man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true”. Sadly you can’t bring people around once they’ve drunk the green kool-aid in sufficient quantity.
He’s as qualified at critical thinking as Gleick is at ethics.
Leftists are convinced that they are trying to perfect the world, therefore any and all tactics are justified in their battles against the demons who oppose them.
Mark W,
Yes, they do. Bloomberg’s latest that he wants to raise taxes on the poor (think Big Gulp tax, for one) because “he wants the poor to live longer”, is a classic example of the Left justifying controlling the peons’ lives because they are too stupid to know what’s good for them and the “right” way to live. Thus, he is justified in being a dictator because it’s out of love. He seems unaware that our Constitution protects citizens’ rights to be stupid if they so desire.
There is no end to the mischief Gov. can cause by “loving” citizens and acting “for their own good” Bloomberg-style.
I recall that the authors of the study he based his Big Gulp tax on told him the tax wouldn’t work and that was not what their study meant. They said people would only increase their sugar intake with candy bars etc. and his tax was useless. He didn’t listen.
“The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.”
I think I’ll replace the pavers that lead around to the back of my house with new ones, imprinted with “GOOD INTENTIONS” on them, and see if anyone notices.
Primary among those tactics is lying through you teeth.
I have a question that is slightly off topic for this thread but is a point I hear the “climate scientists” starting to raise with some frequency. They like to talk about climate “tipping points” and then conclude that once past these imaginary points climate catastrophe will occur and be “irreversible”.
I’m not a scientist, but even to a layman the word “irreversible” sounds incredibly unscientific given the geologic history of earth and the reliably cyclical Milankovitch Cycle. Am I off base here ?
Nope, you’re not off base – and the notion of climate “tipping points” based on CO2, when CO2 has been much higher in the past and caused no such “climate catastrophe” at all, is complete bullshit. In point of fact, there is NO empirical evidence that CO2 does anything to temperature at all the notion that CO2 has an effect on the Earth’s temperature is a purely hypothetical construct, nothing more.
Id love to be at that xmas table with him
renewables have to be MADE and they cant make enough energy to make themselves
or as we saw run even a small bobcat let alone a mine truck or crusher
and the rare earths the non recyclabe issues and the crap output even with batteries
hed be more stuffed than the turky pulling this crap on with me.
Me too! It is truly amazing how deluded they really are.
Dr. Ellerton’s Qualifications:
Doctor of Philosophy, The University of Queensland
Master of Contemporary Science, Australian National University
Graduate Certificate in Arts, The University of Queensland
Bachelor of Education, Griffith University
While he is no scientist, he is a contemporary scientist. A Nobel prize will be established shortly for Contemporary Science.
“I’m a critical thinking expert. This is how you win any climate change debate like Greta Thunberg
The Conversation By Peter Ellerton”
So many lulz to be had just in the opening two sentences alone.
Greta doesn’t “debate” climate change: she refuses to talk to “deniers”.
And “The Conversation” deletes any comments (and commenters) who don’t share their alarmist outlook.
Is it really critical thinking to believe “My uncle might respond by saying I shouldn’t use any energy at all. Maybe he’ll say “then stop driving cars” or “don’t turn on your TV”.
That non sequitur wouldn’t pass muster with any true “denier”. This nutjob would be far more likely trying to understand why his unreliable, non-steady power supply can’t really work in our current network. Actually, he’ll likely just call his uncle names, and blithely continue to believe he’s the smartest suit in the room.
No, it’s definitely not critical thinking.
This cranky uncle would ask:
“Why build renewable energy sources that use more energy to build, operate and maintain than they will produce in their lifetime?”
Because that’s the best argument against unreliables. They are literally wasting energy overall. Forget the fact that the energy is not reliable, it’s just not being produced on a net basis.
Every day, when I climb into my 1991 BMW 325i with 5-speed manual transmission … I am saving much more of the planet than my surrounding neighbors “believe” they are saving by driving their shiny new Teslas. I am the TRUE conservative. They conveniently ignore all the energy and pollution it took to deliver their shiny new eco-cars into their garages. I don’t. Yep. My car is religiously maintained, and passes CA’s strictest CARB smog checks.
It’s always hilarious when the socialists pretend that they can think like conservatives. It doesn’t work, for the same reason that children can’t successfully pretend to think like adults 🙂
”As bushfires rage and our cities lie shrouded in smoke, climate change is shaping as a likely topic of conversation at the family dinner table this Christmas.”
Bushfire has nothing to do with ”climate change” They are caused by local weather conditions which are causing drought.
That guy on the right couldn’t possibly be Australian, too well-dressed. 🙂
You gotta tart yourself up for the videos
Like the guy on the left.
West Coast of Tasmania has been cool and quite wet!!! How unusual.
ah but the east coast got a bit dry and thats been raved up while east is ignored
Classic case of a negative Southern Annular Mode (SAM) situation which was bought about by a sudden stratospheric warming event in early August.
This is a classic ‘three way event’ right now. A slightly +ve ENSO, a strong +ve IOD and a strong -ve SAM is going to result in the conditions we are seeing right now in Australia. A very hot start to the summer in the West, a wet and cool Tasmania and southern Victoria, and a blisteringly hot and dry NSW and QLD. Combine this with insufficient land management and fire prevention policies and there is little wonder we’ve had the fires we are having. But of course its Australia’s coal mines that are to blame of course.
When Greta grows up and becomes a head nurse, all the deniers will be put into the insane asylum.
It’s already too crowded with alarmists in there.
Oh Nurse don’t be such a Ratched…
oh deary
I had an instant nurse ratchett flashback;-))) lol
Nurse Ratchett — she might temporarily stop going forward, but never go backwards.
I love it when the Alarmists create strawman skeptic responses so that they can then claim the imaginary response doesn’t address the point they made.
Of course, the cranky ol’ uncle should have countered “Why do you think less CO2 a good thing?” and then allow the conversation continue with science and data, and not memes.
But they always want to use a conversation stopper based on consensus, “Because we all know (or 97% of scientists tell us) CO2 is a pollutant”.
Most readers of this blog are very capable taking it from there to respond to the Alarmist’s subsequent chain of assertions with appropriate questions about the science and the data.
“I love it when the Alarmists create strawman skeptic responses so that they can then claim the imaginary response doesn’t address the point they made.”
It’s not necessarily a strawman. Many here have made similar points, I’ve even done it a few times. And they’re valid points, depending on the person you’re debating.
Your points are valid too, of course.
Describing the very thing you are doing yourself as if you are not doing it is a classic, pathetic, alarmist tactic.
If it’s emissions-free reliable 24/7 electricity, then simply ask, “Why do the Greens utterly reject and resist nuclear power? If saving the planet was the risk of another Fukashima, so what? It’s the planet that Climate Alarmists claim is going to die from CO2, not radiation.”
Especially in Australia which holds the world’s largest reserves of uranium.
And if they still insist on Wind and Solar, then simply state,
“I like to have electricity when the sun goes down and the wind hasn’t been blowing for a while. What about you? Do you like to sit in the dark, on sweltering hot, still summer night just for some Green, feel-good virtue points?”
Then when they fail to answer that, deliver the coup de grace,
“Do you think the really rich people and elites politicians who push the Green Schemes are going to sit in the dark with everyone else like us? Or do they have well-financed fossil-fuel generated backup plans?”
Joel, the greens raise the dangers of ‘nuclear waste’, when nuclear energy is suggested as a sensible ‘clean’, reliable source of energy. Just think, we could renew manufacturing in Australia!
I think a comeback argument to their rant would be the toxic ‘sludge’ that is a byproduct of both the processing of materials, ‘and’ the recycling of wind turbines and solar panels, which really doesn’t exist yet!
From the research I’ve done, they haven’t even worked out what to do with this sludge.
At least there is a plan in place for the byproducts of nuclear energy.
“From the research I’ve done, they haven’t even worked out what to do with this sludge.
At least there is a plan in place for the byproducts of nuclear energy.”
Very good points, Megs. Windmills and Solar have their own pollution problems, and they have not been addressed or even discussed sufficiently..
The only reason why we have a problem with nuclear waste is because the greens won’t let us reprocess it.
Nuclear was raised in a ‘discussion panel’ (with no scientific qualifications) on TV this morning with one of the panel disagreeing and stating that we have to stop mining and leave things in the ground when there are ‘renewable’ options available.
No mention (or thought) that ‘renewables have to be built from concrete, steel, rare earths, oils, etc that all require mining using heavy machinery that would not be viable if electrically powered.
It’s a pity these far-sighted prognosticators of doom cannot see their own blinkers
“renewable energy generates less carbon than fossil fuels”
If that’s the case, why aren’t they (so called “renewable energy” sources) cheaper?
Because renewable energy sources use more energy to create, operate and maintain than they generate in their lifetime.
They are the best way to waste energy ever invented. Without fossil fuels they couldn’t exist.
Joel,
Intermittency of wind and solar are not the only problems. The fact is that, even if we don’t see it, the mining for the rare earth metals to make solar and wind is horrendous for the environment, and they need fossil fuels to be mined, manufactured, transported, installed, maintained and removed and there are no safe disposal methods for windmills and solar. On top of that, they require 24/7 spinning reserves from fossil fuels which emit more CO2 than just using gas 24/7. In their life cycles, they never save as much CO2 as all that emits.
Add to that the enormous land use issues, habitat destruction for animals, horrific numbers of deaths of birds, bats and insects, forest destruction in many places to install them and the entire thing becomes beyond absurd.
I won’t even get started on the absurdities of biomass and biofuels which are even worse.
This is the biggest con job ever perpetuated on the human race. Parents letting high priests sacrifice their virgin daughters to appease the Weather gods made more sense.
Because power plants that no longer make a profit have to be paid for but can’t be closed because without fossil fuels “renewable energy” couldn’t exist.
Leftists have always measured intelligence based on ones ability to parrot the party line.
I must admit that I am shocked that the same guy who thought Cuban health care was a wonderful thing and Castro a great guy who should be emulated, found his way to the truth on this issue.
No accounting for that one except that Moore is not stupid. He saw a Trump win in 2016 (one of the few) and has made a fortune fleecing cities and states out of tax dollars for jobs promised that never came.
File under, “Even a stopped clock is right twice a day?” Or, maybe he really does care about the climate enough to put his ideology aside? It’s happened before among the Believers as with Hansen who now finds himself banished to the desert with the Deniers by the “IN” crowd and the Kool Kids Klub. (Klub is not a typo nor a spelling mistake.)
Apparently, Greta has been beat by a 14 year old girl. I don’t have a name.
Question: what do you call an expert on critical thinking who encourages readers to parrot green talking points on renewable energy?
Answer: My colleagues, Dave Kinkead from the University of Queensland Critical Thinking Project and John Cook from George Mason University in the US, and I published a paper yesterday…
Yes, that John Cook.
https://communication.gmu.edu/people/jcook20
‘Critical thinking’ is just the latest on oxymorons du jour. I always thought it sufficiant simply to think about a matter as in ‘think about it’.
As for someone who declares himself to be ‘an expert in critical thinking’ well thats where the ‘moron’ part of ‘oxymoron’ comes from.
These people do “evidence-based research” to differentiate themselves from their predecessors.
Also, they have “scientific facts”.
As opposed to layman’s facts, probably. Or factual facts. Or just facts. Or measurements.
You can’t say anything because their facts are “scientific”.
Just heard that Jeremy Corbyn has resigned after the massive loss at the ballot box. What a dumping for Labor. Good for the UK.
REALLY?!!
That is great news!! Reading the Media, I thought Johnson was a gonner over his latest ads and was dead in the water.
FAKE NEWS and FAKE POLLS–British style, I guess.
Thank you, goldminor.
I could not believe the Brit’s were stupid enough to elect Corbyn. Whew!
The BBC is very muted and is interviewing Labour henchmen as to what went wrong.
They in turn are blaming Brexit and the ignorance of the working population, and of course Corbyn could do no wrong and was not to blame.
The real reason was the wish list that Labour published in their manifesto which would have involved borrowing billions, nationalising many large industries and raising taxes on the ‘wealthy’ .
These taxes would have filtered down to the average person as they ran out of money and inheritance tax proposals would have destroyed any incentive to work hard and save, as they were proposing a maximum total LIFETIME inheritance of £125,000 and anything over would be taxed at ones marginal rate. What would count as inheritance was not stated, but could have included taking the grownup kids on holiday.
So the incentive would be to blow it all on riotous living instead of leaving something to the kids or helping them buy a house.
No wonder so many people said no thanks at the polling booth.
He hasn’t resigned, he has stated that he will not lead the Labour party at the next election in 5 yrs time. He will continue as leader until he can ensure the “right” successor is installed to continue with the project. If he resigns now the “wrong ” type of candidate might get the job.
The Labour Party has been absolutely CRUSHED in the British General Election.
Who says Friday the 13th always brings bad luck?!
Tee, hee, hee, hee, hee, wipeout. Apologies to the Beach Boys
Cue drum solo.
Not the Beach Boys, the Surfaris
Maybe there is finally a Conservative Wave sweeping across the Western Democracies. Australia surprised us this last election with a fairly conservative vote, and now the UK asserts their conservatism, and, imo, Trump is going to blow away the Democrats in his next election.
Maybe enough of our citizens have wised up to the radical Left and its destructive ways and are rejecting them now. Let us hope. Perhaps the Western Democracies won’t self-destruct. But the question is not definitively settled as of yet. Conservatives need to get busy and stay busy because the radical Left certainly won’t stop trying to undermine our societies with their crazy ideas.
Whilst being more than happy that Labour and Corbyn failed miserably in yesterday’s election I think it was the electoral system of first past the post that did the crushing. Boris and the Tories got 43.6% of the votes cast giving them 55% of the available seats and the biggest majority since Thatcher. Since my first GE in the 1960s I’ve never been happy with FPTP.
Bojo has a lot to live up to and in many ways Brexit may be a minor problem. The FPTP has given nationalists about 80% of Scottish seats, and a majority of SF and SDLP (those against the Union with the United Kingdom) in Ulster.
It’s my view that post Brexit the British people will get on with making the most of the situation having had 40 years of opposition to being in the EU followed by 3 years of chaos then almost anything will be better for Britain than another 40 years of arguing about membership of political/trading groups.
CO2 is not really an issue.
Wide-spread reliable electricity is the issue.
If Peter Ellerton becomes an advocate for nuclear and drops his
support for wind and solar, then we will know he has been thinking.
When he uses the phrase “climate denial claims”, or other nonsense,
he can be dismissed as a crackpot.
Greta Thunberg has never won a climate change debate. She knows almost nothing about the science of the atmosphere and climate. Peter Ellerton is essentially telling his readers to be relentless bullies like Greta, not how to win a climate change debate. His credentials as a ‘critical thinker’ do not appear to be very impressive. I would gladly have him at my table this Christmas to see how well his methods actually work!
Totally OT
But Boris Johnson’ Conservative Party has just thrashed the Labor party in the UK election
Not just thrashed, but a total whitewash
Maybe 150 seat majority over Labor in a 650 seat parliament.
Just need someone to educate Boris on the farce that is “Klimate Change” and renewable non-energy
I’m surprised that WUWT hasn’t already posted an article about the overwhelming conservtive win in the UK.
If you want to have some fun, just respond that CO2 doesn’t matter because fusion power is just around the corner.
Once the UK has left the EU, climate is only one of many areas on which they’ll be able to escape from existing stupid EU policies. Though I suspect the first two things they’ll do will be to strike a great trade deal with Trump and cut back immigration of certain troublemaking folks.
skip Christmas lights . . . . definitely what’s old is new again. So very 1970s. Even “early* ’70s! (my father died in ’75). He tried to be a good little liberal, and ditched Christmas lights before he died.
Well, we have more than ever this year- outside tree lights, reindeer, icicles, (to remind the kids what they look like as we don’t get any because of global warming), and they’re going to be on 24/7 just to annoy the local whining, lefty hippies. I may even spell out ‘I love fossil fuels’ with the lights……
A chess player who thinks the opponent will do such pathetically bad moves has no clue what playing chess is.
Critical thinking … pff
How to win a debate like Great?
Step 1 : – How dare you.
Step 2 : – How dare you!
Step 3 : – How Dare You!
Step 4 : – HOW DARE YOU!
Step 5 : – Sail across the Atlantic.
Repeat as necessary.
The funny part is watching COP25 descend into chaos and Greta being there to watch it.
St Greta, candidate for Hypocrite of the Year.
Spend 5 minutes watching this
https://youtu.be/r8SyoRwV_To
Hilarious! Yet pathetic.
Rebel media had fun with that video but it is kinda like shooting fish in a barrel. I started to feel sorry for the young people they were interviewing. The brainwashing was strong in that group!
Green energy sources might produce cheaper energy intermittently once (and WHILE) running, but that ignores the production and construction of the machine. I don’t pay for intermittent energy, I pay for reliable energy. If I had to pay for intermittent energy I would need to install and complex system of batteries, monitors, and convertors. Suddenly the cheap energy doesn’t seem so cheap to me. Nor does it seem so friendly for the environment (you have batteries closets in every home, leading to disposal problems, production problems, mining problems, and of course, fire hazard problems).
I do believe they will eventually get solar panels down in cost to be a reasonable alternative for *some* of the necessary power in *some* less cloudy and more sunny areas more toward the tropics (but not the far north). These panels will be on rooftops, not in solar farms. There are a few exceptions – desert facilities using focused sunlight will likely prevail, but they will be marginal – there just are not enough good locations for them (unless you are OK with wiping out desert species).
Many people’s problem with understanding is one more of timing than probability. Until a technology can make it on it’s own (economically), produce a reliable output, and not introduce so many new problems it isn’t worth the effort, it will fail. Technology changes all the time. In 10 years we may have solved for some of this, in 20 years it might be moot because we have a better alternative, etc. Meanwhile, I rest easy knowing that we have plenty of fossil fuel to get us to whatever the future brings.
Wind farms? I think they will be a fail…and eventually replaced at great cost by more reliable power sources (i.e. nuclear). I am just waiting for a burning wind turbine to start a California fire…
They are generally cheaper than a portable generator.
In places where a portable generator is your only other option, they make sense.
Even back in the 00’s Tehatcpi was a mess of failed wind projects. I’m actually surprised they haven’t started a fire..
Back to the point of the argument. What about the emissions to produce the renewable energy equipment and all that mining required ?
renewable energy = perpetual motion,
It doesn’t exist. Some will run out sooner than others though. Entropy.
What they really mean is sustainable.
However, although the wind and sun are free, it requires resources to capture them,
and those resources are often neither renewable nor sustainable.
No more mining, no more dams, and so on. You can see where this is going.
To get zero emissions or pollution, the only way is to go to zero demand.
I would advise against going there.