Green New Deal: ‘This isn’t just radical socialism, this is madness’

Comments on ‘Green New Deal’

‘This isn’t just radical socialism, this is madness’

ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, IL (February 7, 2019) – Today, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) released the outline of the “Green New Deal.” The resolution calls for the United States to embark on a 10-year “economic mobilization” with the goal to “achieve net-zero greenhouse gas emissions through a fair and just transition for all communities and workers.” The plan would shut down virtually all coal, oil, and natural gas electric plants, eliminating millions of jobs in the process; spend unspecified billions on new “zero-emission vehicle infrastructure and manufacturing” and green public transit projects, and it would eliminate as many gasoline-powered vehicles “as is technologically feasible.”

The plan would also require “upgrading all existing buildings in the United States and building new buildings to achieve maximal energy efficiency,” the creation of a federal universal college education program, and it would guarantee “a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States.”

The following statements from energy and environment experts at The Heartland Institute — a free-market think tank — may be used for attribution.

“Extreme. That’s the only way to describe the socialist Green New Deal. With its failure in Venezuela, Ocasio-Cortez, Markey and their fellow democrats have picked a bad time to force socialism here in our country. Rest assured, The Heartland Institute will continue to lead the opposition to this socialist green dream.”


Tim Huelskamp, Ph.D.
The Heartland Institute

Dr. Huelskamp represented Kansas’ 1st District in the House of Representatives from 2011 to 2017

“It is no coincidence that the radical socialist freshman congresswoman from New York has made the Green New Deal her top priority. In addition to bankrupting our energy economy, the Green New Deal would impose the very same programs that destroyed Venezuela, transforming the Latin American nation from a wealthy, relatively free society into a poverty-stricken totalitarian dictatorship.

“This Venezuelan model is what Ocasio-Cortez and other socialist Democrats dream for America. They realize that a contrived climate crisis provides their best opportunity to amass the power to do so.”


James Taylor

Senior Fellow for Environmental Policy

The Heartland Institute


“Justifying the need for the Green New Deal on the alarmist and unscientific reports by the International Panel on Climate Change would turn America into a socialist state because of a lie.

“Despite what this resolution states, human activity is not the ‘dominant cause of observed climate change over the past century.’ Sea levels are not rising at a dangerous and accelerated rate. Storms, droughts, and wildfires are not more frequent, nor are they more severe than in even recent history. And the truth is that the United States, by embracing market-driven forces in energy production, is seeing carbon dioxide emissions fall while that of our more-socialist friends overseas is on the rise.

“In a way, the socialist Green New Deal and the IPCC are a perfect match. Both peddle fantasy and not fact.”


Jay Lehr
Science Director
The Heartland Institute

“There are numerous socialist policies mandated under the Green New Deal that would harm tens of millions Americans and drive up the national debt to unsustainable heights. Just some of those policies include single-payer health care, a national tuition-free college program, a promise to provide every American with ‘healthy food,’ a national basic income program, a universal promise for housing and ‘economic security,’ and a plan to ‘upgrade’ every single building in the country, including every American’s home. This isn’t just radical socialism, this is madness.”

Justin Haskins
Executive Editor
The Heartland Institute

The Heartland Institute is a 35-year-old national nonprofit organization headquartered in Arlington Heights, Illinois. Its mission is to discover, develop, and promote free-market solutions to social and economic problems.

318 thoughts on “Green New Deal: ‘This isn’t just radical socialism, this is madness’

  1. Occasonal-Cortex’s Brave Green World manifesto has been taken down.

    I understand Occasional-Cortex labored mightily to give birth to the Green New Deal. The text was delivered to her web site. The text was kept comfortable. The text was resuscitated with corrections to some but not all typos because that is what Occasional-Cortex and Nancy wanted. Then a discussion ensued between Nancy and Occasional-Cortex and Schumer snipped the server cord.


      From the article:
      Many Democrats have rallied around New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s so-called “Green New Deal” that aims to eliminate fossil fuels within 10 years. (RELATED: Liberal Operative Reveals The Real Reason Ocasio-Cortez Backs A ‘Green New Deal’)

      A progressive activist who worked on New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s campaign and helped draft an outline for a “Green New Deal” characterized the global warming plan as a “proposal to redistribute wealth.”

      “America’s ruling class is freaking out about [Ocasio-Cortez’s] proposal to redistribute wealth and power from the people on top to the people on the bottom,” Waleed Shahid tweeted Tuesday, referring to a Fox News segment on the “Green New Deal.”

      [end of excerpt]

      My concern, as an energy expert, is that intermittent energy from wind and/or solar power cannot supply the grid with reliable, uninterrupted power. These so-called green energy technologies are not green and produce little useful energy, because they require almost 100% conventional backup from fossil fuels, nuclear or hydro for periods when the wind does not blow and the Sun does not shine. Green energy does not even reduce CO2 emissions, because of the need for almost 100% conventional spinning reserve. There is no current grid-scale “super-battery” technology that can economically solve the intermittency problem, except for Pumped Storage that requires special siting that exists in only a few places in the world.

      If these “green energy” warriors have their way, I would get off the grid and generate my own power from natural gas. That is the rational approach when politicians ruin a perfectly good grid energy system with their naïve, uninformed foolishness.

      • America’s ruling class is freaking out about [Ocasio-Cortez’s] proposal to redistribute wealth

        Imagine that, people who’ve worked their butts off to improve themselves and provide for their families are upset that people who would rather not work are going to use government to steal everything they have worked for.

        • And waste it on stuff that which will result in almost no real reduction in CO2 emissions, but will triple the cost of electricity.

          The plan is to force jobs to leave so there will be more people on welfare which are Democrat supporters.

          The trick/challenge/logical constraint is to make more money so the country can spend more.

          It is idiotic/irrational on multiple levels.

          • William Astley…at 4:36 pm
            And waste it on stuff that which will result in almost no real reduction in CO2 emissions…

            Your post implies that reduction of CO2 emissions needs to be done. It doesn’t.

            Stop buying into what the Left tells us needs to be done.

          • Indeed, CO2 is the gas of life and reducing it curtails life on the planet! Democratic socialists are hell-bent on destroying everything they touch but particularly Western civilization. They’ve been brainwashed into believing their Globalistic Nirvana is obtainable while anybody with an ounce of brains knows their approach can only fail! Give them a napkin and they’ll go skydiving with enthuasiasm!

          • The Libs have really done it now,
            proposed the telling Green New Deal!
            You’re on the list, they’ll disallow
            what you love and what you feel.
            Forget your cars, forget your plane,
            your barbecue, your life, your house.
            You’ll go by train, eat what they deign,
            for they’re the cat, you are the mouse.
            In paradise no one must work,
            you’ve seen this all played out before.
            You’ll be controlled by the berserk,
            you’ll starve and die as they get more.
            Venezuela, Russia, Cuba,
            North Korea, Vietnam,
            Cambodia, Romania,
            East Germany, Afghanistan.
            So tell me, fellow earthly dwellers,
            are we the masters of our fate?
            Shall we curl up or hide in cellars,
            meekly obey, succumb to hate?
            Drain the swamp! Build the wall!
            Make the bastards earn their rent!
            Stand up, you people, Do Not Crawl!
            We’re the ONLY government!

        • They do not care. Out of the ashes of capitalist society will come a nice shiny new one. A society not based on greed. Even if it fails they will have destroyed white America. for her a brilliant result. Her name will be spoken of in 1000s of years. The society that replaces white America will be their America with their American values.

          Years ago you neede an army today just a demographic that votes.

      • “America’s ruling class is freaking out about [Ocasio-Cortez’s] proposal to redistribute wealth and power from the people on top to the people on the bottom,”

        Ummm… No.

        The Ruling Class are congratulating each other on how much they look after the little people. In any Brave New World the Ruling Class will remain the Ruling Class because they are better than us and clearly need to maintain their nice things in order to do their important jobs.

        What is really going to happen is the middle class and the working class will have their wealth removed to construct a new Dregs Of Society Class at the very bottom where all Dregs are Equal.

        The Ruling Class will then go and live in their apartment in Paris and the Dregs Class can stay and enjoy being patronised by tourists who now visit America because of the 20 to 1 exchange rate against the US dollar.

        • What gets me is who’s really behind this. Steyer? Bloomberg? No 29-year-old ditzy bartender came up with this on her own, believe me. There’s got to be some BIG money behind this chick feeding the publicity machine. I can’t even believe such a basket of steaming codswallop has actually seen the light of day! Maybe Pelosi can take her down to that 33rd level catacomb under the Capitol building and explain the Facts of Life to She Guevara. This is the gods’ gift to the GOP . . . and it shows the Watermelons’ hand to the world at last!

          • Oh Goldrider there are many of them :-
            Let’s start at the top.
            ‘ My’ Pope (I am a catholic).
            The club of Rome (not necessarily related to above)
            The Rothschilds
            The Bilderberg Group.
            Other Masons.
            Probably the remnants of the Soviet union.
            Probably communist China.
            The entire Marxist democrat party.
            Agenda 21
            The Ippc.
            Enough yet?

          • This gal is too perfect to be anything but a Trump operative. She is his 2020 campaign insurance.

          • Patrick. Thank you for mentioning the “unmentionables” here on this site.

            it is no coincidence she is pushing for 2030- right in line with Agenda 21/2030.

          • What gets me is who’s really behind this.

            My understanding is that Cotexless [I mean, “Cortez”] is the House sponsor of the bill. It actually arose from the Sunrise Movement organization with which she has been associated for a while. My guess is that active thinkers and leaders in this organization have been hammering out the language for quite some time, and they are using Cotexless [I mean, “Cortez”] as one of the political mouthpieces to articulate it, and as one of the governmental arms to push it out there into the real world.


          • Goldrider – February 7, 2019 at 7:48 pm

            What gets me is who’s really behind this. Steyer? Bloomberg? No 29-year-old ditzy bartender came up with this on her own, believe me.

            Well now, ……. actually, realistically and technically, …. it is the US Public School System that is responsible for the beliefs and actions of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez et el (and all like-minded millennials) and their “Green New Deal” manifesto …… because that is what the public school students have been “brainwashed” to believe during the past 30+ years.

            Cortez’s election “win” was a one-in-a-billion “fluke” and it jump-started the lefty liberal “bandwagon” playing and a parade quickly formed behind it.

            And that parade is just getting started and won’t end any time soon. So, set back in your “easy” chair and watch the protesting, fighting and name calling.

        • To Craig from Oz…from Bill from Aus.
          By then there wont be a US dollar, they will. be trading in yuan. I think the ruling class is freaking out as they see their chance to steal all our belongings and freedoms sliding away to loony land on the superfast green dream.
          It appears that the Dems might be on the verge of a massive split. An old friend of mine once warned me of the folly of having mad friends as they will eventually turn on you….

          • There is already a huge split between the establishment Democrats and the Millenials. The Establishment are freaking out because they’ve just realized their base considers them obsolete.

            The Democrats, through control of the schools, created the batcrap-crazy Millennials by force-feeding them Marxist claptrap for decades. The Millennials are now turning on all the old white folks in the Democrat party, because Too White (and, mostly, Too Male).

            Xhe Guevera is not some crazy lady from out of left field. She’s just a typical, average Millenial who’s been taught that she knows everything, socialism is just super-cool, and The Future Is Brown Female.

            That’s the problem with relying on lunatics as your support base. You can never tell what a lunatic might decide to do.

      • Allan, I really have started liking the term “weather dependent energy”. The word “renewable” just has some inherent connotation of reliability that is just plain wrong.

        • DMackenzie. You make a good point. Weather-dependent is exactly the right description.

          I think the silly plans for overturning the power generation system without some basic breakthrough are taken from or inspired by Hollywood sci-fi movies wherein the rebels, the cool ultimate victors, scrounge advanced spare parts for a few shillings and fly spacecraft made from millions of tons of metal that appear without any energy input. It is a scavenger economy that has an unseen source of processed metal. In effect, the plots are redistributive because they take what exists and redistribute it very inexpensively, akin to running down a battery someone else charged.

          That said, crony capitalism is as insane and short sighted as the loopy Left’s plans to discharge the economic battery in the interests of, among other things, literally everyone having a college degree.

          As president of South Africa PW Botha asked, “And who will bring you your tea in the morning?” I suppose the answer will be someone with a college degree in flavinoids.

          A just society requires a commitment to genuine equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. Slave wages does not qualify as equality of opportunity. Being a member of Congress does not imply equality of outcomes. There is a lot of growing up still to be done.

        • We should all start using that term. First of all the energy is not renewable because you can’t make the solar panels or wind turbines from the energy it produces. You need fossil fuels to make materials

          • Jamie, BINGO! This is the heart of the problem. How many wind turbines does it take to produce enough concentrated energy to manufacture the materials for one single wind turbine? I am just a biologist, but I’ll wager that the number is north of an infinite number of wind turbines. And, until this week, I never considered the energy costs to manufacture the materials for the base/pedestal. Yeah, right, renewables!

        • “Weather dependent” is better than “Green” but not entirely correct. For example, solar doesn’t work on a cloud-free night either – the weather doesn’t matter. I still prefer “intermittent energy” because it covers both weather and nightfall. “Works Some-Of-The-Time energy” just doesn’t roll off the tongue.

          • Texa Robert
            Texas Robert
            …I still prefer “intermittent energy” because it covers both weather and nightfall….

            How’s about “Diurnal Weather Dependent..?”
            ( not to be confused with a Storm safe Public Convenience )…
            semantics will be the death of me!

      • To be fair, 100% “renewable” energy is only impossible if you assume that the demand side of the equation does not change. The current electrical system has all the flexibility built into the supply side. This allows the consumer (you and me) to demand electricity whenever we want want it and at whatever amount we want (up to the limits of our service class, of course). But if you have inflexible (non-dispatchable, unreliable) supply (provided by wind and solar mostly), then the system can work if you have flexible demand. In other words, you allow the grid operators to “adjust” demand as necessary to balance the varying supply. This would be done by putting devices at all customer locations which allow the grid operator to turn off circuits and services as they see fit, or even disabling entire subgrids for periods of time. Now that is a radical change to the current system, and most likely is incompatible with our technological society today. I doubt most people would be in favor of such a change, which is probably why this aspect of 100% renewables is never mentioned by its proponents.

    • U.S. International Trade Administration (ITA)


      “Energy Industry Spotlight”
      “The Energy Industry in the United States”

      Includes Renewable Energy, Energy Efficiency, Other Energy topics and Organizations involved in U.S. Energy Issues.

      There is more taking place than just the U.S. Congress and Senate.


      UN Sustainable Development

      “Clean Energy Finance University”

      U.S. Department of Energy, NREL
      Bloomberg New Energy Finance
      Clean Energy Solutions Center
      Frankfurt School – UNEP

      Look behind the scenes for what’s taking place.

    • the Cortex and all those who support her are really quite insane. One need not even bother to try and analyse her stupidity.

  2. I think all Democrats throughout this great nation should support AOC’s Green New Deal. Before the next election.

    • Yeah, but what if they get elected?

      Seriously – I feel ya, but you simply cannot count on common sense being a factor.

      • I was reading of a poll recently that found that a majority of voters would support raising the tax rate to 70%. Reading the comments was really depressing. Person after person whining about how it was so unfair that some people had so much, so they want government to do something about it.

        • “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”

          Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 22 October 1945

          • Except for the ruling classes who will:
            a) live in big dachas
            b) travel in big bullet proof gasoline powered cars
            c) will use dedicated ruling class only travel lanes
            d) will shop in well stocked ruling class only stores

            Hey we’ve been here before … back in the USSR

          • Winnie was a little off on the second sentence. It should have been, “The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries except for the ruling elite.”

    • The problem for these people is that there are no repercussions to offering up something this blatantly stupid because so far the adults have said “No effin’ way”. But until these wannabe socialists feel the effects of policy like this they’ll just continue on being critical of the systems that allow them to act this way in the first place instead of having to scratch and claw for survival every day.

      I wish I had a time machine so I could send them back to the medieval times so they could be serfs and let them enjoy that way of life for a year or so… perhaps NOAA will lend me the use of theirs (that is how they are able to determine how all past temperatures needed to be adjusted down, isn’t it – they went back in time and remeasured?).

      • Sorry Bob AOC goes back medieval times to live as a serf and she stays there. Or fly her up to the top of Alaska and say sorry you can’t use the airplane these have been outlawed. Here is a kayak. Good luck!

        I’m a Canadian Baffin Island would be an excellent spot.

        • According to her Green Insanity Plan, airplanes are going to be phased out in favor of high speed rail. In just 10 years.

          • old joke about bridges to Hawaii with a modern twist:
            Granted one wish a man asked for a bridge to Hawaii.
            The Genie laughed in his face, “Far too crazy! Ask again!”
            “Okay,” the man replied. “Then tell me what the heck that Cocasio-Cortez woman is thinking.”
            “Hmm,” replied the genie, “You want that bridge one lane or two?”

          • Has AOC ever been outside the continental USA? I don’t think she realises there’s a whole lot of world out here.

          • Not gas stations every 200 miles on the Hawaii bridge, electricity recharge points as she will be using an EV.
            She will have to join the queue as it takes about half an hour to recharge even from a rapid recharge point. If it is normal domestic supply it will take over-night!

          • Interesting the difference between the time stamp of 11.19pm on 7th Feb, and the actual time here in the UK at about 7.20 am on 8th Feb.
            I presume that the time stamp is California time.

          • Unfortunately she HAS been out of NY NY, She was in DC for the State of the Union address all decked out in white.

        • I have often said that they should ship the alarmists to the North Pole and leave them there. See how well that “global warming” is working for them then. Or the South Pole. The South Pole might be better. It’s land-locked; it’s colder.

          • How about to the Midwest last week with only wind and solar available?
            That would solve the problem.
            At least one person froze solid in her own home when her thermostat malfunctioned.
            It does not even take a power failure to die in Winter in the US.

        • With gas stations, restaurants and motels every 200 miles.

          Not gas stations every 200 miles on the Hawaii bridge, electricity recharge points as she will be using an EV.

          Neither of those things, it’s Highspeed rail only. She wants to eliminate cars as well as planes.

    • And so should we up to the steps of the polling booth.
      Favorably promote AOC to every Democrat you know.
      It’s the smart thing to do.

    • I agree with Roy.
      This is great news, and we all ought to give them all the rope they want.
      It will be the biggest landslide in electoral history.

  3. What person with potentially acceptable credentials would sign off on the assertion that a functioning renewable energy system could be built and manintained anywhere near the assumed cost of the Green New Deal?

    • It is easy enough to believe that young “useful idiots” with no experience can jump aboard the fairy dust train, but what excuse do reasonably intelligent veteran lawmakers like Harris and Sanders have?

      I’ve been routinely bashing activists and politicians who start with erroneous assumptions and then go on to build complex conclusions and recommendations upon those false assumption; but none of the GND recommendations can stand a minimum test of economic or scientific scrutiny. You could go on and on!
      – where”s the steel for all the new infrastructure going to come from if the only energy is wind and solar?
      – cement is a major source of CO2 emissions; each of the infinite number of proposed wind turbines needs a 50′ deep concrete base.
      – what do I do with my 2019 Honda that will still be running in 10 years, if gas is not available? Do we need walls to prevent Texans from driving to Mexico for their next fillup? What do we do with all the corner gas stations over the next 10 years?

      The inconsistencies go on and on. A home schooled 5th grader can blow holes in these recommendations. This does not say much for the Economics Department of Boston College.

      • Harris is not that smart. She was my state’s attorney general before she ran for Congress. I can tell you, her success in government wasn’t due to the matter between her ears. I left the state before she became their senator.

        As for Sanders? We all know he never had a job in his life that would pay the bills until he conned the voters into putting him in Congress.

  4. I think you being unfair I have already picked a name for my free unicron , its Jiff .
    And it can eat of the free gold plates I am going to get too.

  5. Occasional Cortex has a chip on her shoulder and aside from being an imbecile is, like Obama, trying to harm the country and does not like. The United States of America. What is most disconcerting is the number of people in this country, including the majority of the media and educational system who fall for such complete idiocy.

    • Covetousness, envy and resentment are the primal impulses of all Marxists, as far as I can tell – including Marx. Give them a mic and they screech, “You didn’t build that!”

  6. This is a campaign gift to the Republicans. This mash-up of Venezuela and Germany’s Energiewende is a lampoon of watermelon proposals.
    On second thought, maybe enough people are ignorant enough to not recognize the utter impractibility of this proposal, and vote for people backing it. A decent plot outline for a disaster movie?

    • there are a lot of green propaganda brainwashed Millennials out there who’ve been raised on “free stuff ” and paid for with OPM.

    • They closed the website with the details within hours, once they had even that amount of feedback time to hear how stupid and ill-conceived their “plan” was.

  7. Representative Cortez (really, is name calling the height of your arguments-the commenters give all of the appearance of being 5 year olds on the playground) demonstrates (unless I see evidence to the contrary)!more intelligence than all of you combined.

    Yes, there are mistakes in the Green Deal, including not understanding that our electrical grid can’t support 100% renewable at this time. But the alternative is to cede the future to China and other countries as we continue down the road to irrelevancy.

    • Uh Mark, China is building more coal plants, has already increased it’s coal consumption, has doubled it’s methane emissions and still increasing…and is rapidly writing deals to increase it’s petro. coal, and gas imports..
      ..and other countries too

      …the only way we would cede the future to China…is be stupid enough to do some green deal

      get out of your shell and research what China is really doing…not what you have been spoon fed

    • MarkV1, your statement that Representative Cortez “demonstrates…more intelligence than all of you combined” is an impossibly summation to defend, the combined intelligence of only several Watts readers and commentators would easily exceed hers. This ridiculous comment of yours leaves me wondering if you might be consuming too many Trix cereals and Red Bull.

      • Ron Long writes: “[…] the combined intelligence of only several Watts readers and commentators would easily exceed hers.”

        I’d back just any one randomly selected reader here as being more intelligent than AOC, and that includes any from the loyal opposition, should their name be drawn out of the hat.

        • Unless that random name happens to be MarkV1 as his post demonstrates that even AOC is smarter than him. Simple math shows that his comment is mathematically impossible. Even if you assumed for the sake of argument that everyone here is classified as “Extremely low IQ” (IE 69 or below – about 2% of the overall population) there’s enough people here that when you combine all the numbers you end up with a number in the “Extremely High” (130+ – about 2% of the overall population) range of the Wechsler scale. Even being extremely generous, there’s no way that AOC ranks in the top 2% of intelligence (or if she does, she hides it extremely well every time she opens her mouth and stupid comes tumbling out).

    • When you’re confronted by this level of insanity, what good are rational arguments?
      As your own idiotic post has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    • mark6,

      I don’t understand the part about ceding the future to China.

      What logic works to say that using the most efficient energy production systems (and not inefficient green stuff) puts the USA in a secondary position?

      Germany is currently leading the way in showing that the green stuff does not work. China doesn’t really care ….

      But seriously, how not does jumping onto the greenwagon make the USA irrelevant?

    • Why do leftists get so upset when stupid people are called stupid?
      Hits to close to home.

      The electrical grid will never be able to support 100% renewable.

      PS: I notice that you don’t criticize any of the other insanities? From that can I conclude that you are actually moronic enough to agree with them?

      PPS: I take it that you are clueless enough to be taken in by China’s meaningless promises.

    • In amongst the insults, there are a lot of criticisms for this plan.
      I notice you didn’t even attempt to refute any of those criticisms.
      Can I take that as an admission on your part that you can’t refute any of them?

    • Please tell us what, in you opinion, is not a ‘mistake’ in her proposal. A specific actionable item, please, not a sweeping statement like everyone should have clean air to breath.

    • It;s not that the “grid can’t support 100% renewable at this time” – it’s that renewables can’t support the grid anywhere near 100% of the time. No matter how many renewable energy devices you emplace.

    • you guys realize…the same woman that says do all this in 10 years
      …says the world is going to end in 12

      • With math skills like hers it’s damn good that Pelosi didn’t give a spot on the Ways and Means Committee.
        And, from other sources I’ve read, Pelosi is not too enamored with this plan.

        • Rocketscientist

          That’s because the last time Markey pushed through a climate bill, (Cap and Trade 2009) the Democrats lost 63 House seats and 7 Senate seats in the next election.

    • Destroy your economy and your children will spend the rest of their lives saying ‘I hope the room is to your liking’ to working class Chinese tourists who now holiday in the US because the US dollar is utterly worthless.

      That is the New Green Deal. Ignore all the hippy unicorn power generation stuff and look at the shameless social reform. Everyone gets free education. Everyone gets a family supporting job. Everyone gets. No one pays for it because clearly the rich people will.

      Spoiler – rich people don’t have to stay because being… how shall I word it… RICH, they can afford to transfer to a new country. The people who are going to be forced to pay for it are the middle class who will be dragged down into the new Dregs class where everything is meaningless.


      Deal with it.

      • Nah, Craig from Oz. your children won’t even get to say that. Look to the socialist paradise of Venezuela and it’s utterly worthless currency, you don’t see many tourists (Chinese or otherwise) going there these days. What good is a strong Yuan compared to the local currency when there’s nothing left in the economically-destroyed country worth spending it on?

    • “Representative Cortez is more intelligence than all of you combined”

      Well she is the master of disguise as well then to hide it so well.

    • Mark,
      I agree with you on the name calling. It is childish; there is simply no other way to describe it. But that’s where we part company on this subject. Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is not very intelligent, IMHO, and her proposal has more holes in it than swiss cheese. Even a 12 year old could spot some of them. It is nothing less than a naked power grab and a path to the ruination of this country.

  8. Stalin and Mao both murdered millions trying to apply Marxist ideology to really, and the these Marxist dimstick leftists will achieve no less.

  9. No Air Travel = no Climate Conference boon doggles = no free champagne and lobster.
    This is going to go down like a lead balloon!

    • You’re misreading that part. “No air travel” refers to those of us that aren’t in the Leftist Elite class. Members of that class will, of necessity, have to frequently travel around the world. Particularly if there’s a tropical island in need to a little TLC.

    • She claims that high speed rail will be so ubiquitous and comfortable, that nobody will want to fly anymore.

      Of course the idea that we could build a nationwide high speed rail network in just 10 years ranks as one of the stupidest ideas in this plan.

        • I’m a little ways out in the country. I look forward to riding the bullet train milk run to the grocery store; stops once at every house and twice at every duplex.

          Stopping at every house may take a bit longer, but man-oh-man! You wouldn’t believe the speeds it reaches between houses.

        • As I understand it, the train will stop ~6 miles outside of Bakersfield. Some technical problems beyond their control.

      • Of course intermittent rail travel will only occur during daylight hours where most of the intermittent power for the rail is generated. Nothing happening at night.

      • How long will it take to get to the railway station?
        How do you get there, walk, bicycle, horse and buggy?
        Ditto at the other end of your trip.
        In the UK we have a similar plans for HS2, (high speed).
        It will cost a fortune to build, cost a fortune to ride, will save only a few minutes in travelling time and drop you off near where you don’t want to go. As well as destroying a swathe of beautiful countryside.

      • How will the electricity be generated to run the train at night when the wind does not low.
        I can imagine the train needing to pull a battery the size of the train to keep it moving.
        Don’t say you can swap batteries every so often, it will be like returning to the state-owned era with changing horses every few miles.

        • The trains wouldn’t need a “battery the size of the train” as most bullet trains get their electricity from electrified lines (Japans shinkansen uses electrified lines with 25 kV AC over head power supply) – in other words the power is generated at a generating station and distributed to the trains. Therefore, in the green new deal, the “generating station” would be renewable wind and solar farms – so the train won’t be going very far when the sun isn’t shining and the wind isn’t blowing unless the station has a honking huge battery (but at least the train won’t have to be lugging that battery around)

  10. These people are crazy – AND they’ve got an army of marching brooms that will apparently back them up no matter HOW crazy they are.

    Seriously – they seem to be running on the platform of destroying the American lifestyle – to save the planet – yet seem to demand that same lifestyle as a right for everybody else – AFTER they’ve destroyed it.

    I can’t wait for this Ocasio Cortez to start repeating the pattern of all her predecessors, when her twelve-year doomsday doesn’t materialize, she’ll change her story, say it’s another ten years off, or say that it actually IS happening – just slower – or off-screen somehow.

    The possibility that she’ll actually learn enough to change her tune is absolutely zero.

    Just think of the damage they’ll do should when they eventually regain full control of government. They do enough damage locally – and they’ve certainly poisoned a generation of school students.

    See, THESE are the mechanisms of behavior-based extinction.

    (Repost – but it fits even better here)

    • May explain why they are so eager to rid the population of guns – so as to monopolize violence for themselves.

      I don’t see how America votes its way out of this mess.

      • Well, more like leaving the population defenseless.
        In the name of ‘protection’.

        And frighteningly, you’re right about the vote – if Ocasio-Cortez was the Democrat nominee, she would carry New York and California without a hitch.

        • Fortunately, she’s ineligible until 2024 at the earliest.

          Supposedly, she has an economics degree, but it’s clear that the economics program at Boston U. is hopelessly dysfunctional if she graduated from there with a passing grade.

          • Don

            I believe AOC is very illuminatory of our institutes of higher learning. The fact that she doesn’t know the first thing about economics but can recite liberal dogma at will is very indicative of her professors priorities.

          • “Fortunately, she’s ineligible until 2024 at the earliest.”

            Who’s going to stop her?

            Seriously, if she was to run and win, who’s going to say ‘nope, you’re not eligible, sorry’?

            Law no longer exists in America. That’s been proven time and again over the last decade or so.

  11. This GND is a gift to Trumplicans for 2020. It shows moderate Dems and Independents how completely off the sanity rails left wing Dems have gone. And look who has already declared for Dem pres candidate: Fauxcahontas, Horizontal Harris, Spartacus,…
    We are going to run out of popcorn by end of 3 Nov 2020.

    • Instead of using dumb names to refer to politicians you dislike, why don’t you call them by their proper names, and show that you have some class, instead of coming off like an idiot?

        • It is, however, predominately on one side, though, isn’t it? Basically one guy has appeared on the scene and thrown it back on them.

      • Fauxcahontas earned her nickname the old-fashioned way, by lying through her teeth.
        And Harris earned hers the hard way.
        And Spartacus named himself.
        Get a grip Dirkse, your snowflake is showing.

      • BTW David, save your hypocrite tears for someone that matters…Warren is done.
        She has had so many lies exposed she has zero chance of even being on a debate stage, assuming they stick to the 5% polling support minimum.

      • Hey David – Perhaps you now see what Trump’s been illustrating by using your own tactics against you – and boy can you guys not take it.

        I notice you jump right to your phony moral high-ground.

        Sorry – you guys set the terms of this fight a long time ago.

      • I’m so conservative that I make some of you look like DFLers, but I don’t like the name calling either, regardless of whatever your political beliefs you hold. There are some exceptions, like Booker who gave himself the nickname “Spartacus”. But just because someone calls the president “Drumpf”, it does not make it any less childish to call Warren “Fauxcahontas”. There are plenty of legitimate issues to criticize these people over, so call them out on their lies and deceptions and disastrous policies, but please leave the juvenile taunts on the playground.

    • Well, um . . .

      “Ninety-two percent of Democrats supported the idea, including 93 percent of liberal Democrats and 90 percent of moderate-to-conservative Democrats. But 64 percent of Republicans—including 75 percent of moderate-to-liberal Republicans and 57 percent of conservative Republicans—also backed the policy goals outlined in the Green New Deal.”

      • DeeDub is right – none of this is funny. Because they’re not kidding. We’ve already got one idiot on this thread claiming she’s got more intelligence than all of us combined.

        • Of course she’s got more intelligence than all of us combined. As a Congressprincess, she’s in the ruling class now, unlike us. The ruling class always does well under socialism.

      • No, not really. Polls were before details were published. People here “green” and think, oh, that sounds nice. Tell them you would take their cars and their beef and airplane travel away, and leave them intermittently in the dark and cold, and there would be a different result.

      • Well, um

        Per your referenced article, when asked (by the Yale climate change propagandists), 82% responded they they knew nothing about the new green deal. When pressed, 80% of the respondents then said that it sounded like a good thing.

        So, you find a big portion of no-nuthings and ask them if “clean energy” is a good plan. They say YES. And you think that you have a good consensus.

        The dems thought that for a while too. Then they cleansed the Ocawzio website when they realized they were only fooling themselves.

      • DeeDub, I don’t buy it. All of the Republicans think its nuts. Not one supports the green new deal.

        “Eighty-two percent of Americans say they have heard “nothing at all” about the sweeping proposal to generate 100 percent of the nation’s electricity from clean sources within the next 10 years, upgrade the United States’ power grid, invest in energy efficiency and renewable technology, and provide training for jobs in the new, green economy.”
        82% of Americans haven’t heard of the green new deal, but 90%+\- support it when it is explained to them.
        Got it.

        • Yes, Garland and Don, now that the utter insanity of it is out there for all to see (prompting AOC’s website to promptly remove it), the Republicans — and soon enough most Democrats — will run from it like the economic plague that it is.

          Which is to say that AOC could well have done the country and the rest of the world a great favor by laying it on the line as to what absurd measures would be required to prevent the equal absurdity of manmade CO2 ending the world in 12 years.

          Thank you, dear girl, now go away. And let us warm ourselves by the precious fires of fossil fuels until their services to humanity have been replaced by energy sources that are genuinely better in cost and performance.

          • “Thank you, dear girl, now go away.”

            I think that is the proper sentiment.

            I noticed Nancy Pelosi referred to the Green New Deal and the Green Dream. Nancy pointed out how others were excited about it, but didn’t include herself in that group.

            Rep. Ocasio’s obviously unattainable GND goals are a gift to conservatives. Let the derision begin. No airplanes? No cars? These ideas are going to crash and burn after a little public scrutiny. This bill may not even pass in the Democrat House. It’s full of loony ideas and Democrats who promote it are going to look loony, too.

          • No phone, no lights no motor cars, Not a single luxury. Like Robinson Crusoe, As primative as can be.

            AOC is Gilligan. (sorry, Bob Denver, I owe you and your character a massive apology).

          • Don’t underestimate the power of the greenies who have been brought up and educated with the religion of green energy and global warming. A court in Australia has just turned down a proposed coal plant because of climate change. The greenies will turn America into Venezuela with their last shivering breath caused by a future polar vortex. America and the free world are doomed.

          • America and the free world are only doomed if saner heads shrug their shoulders and let the greens get away with it.

      • Anyone stupid enough to believe anything printed by MotherJones deserves to be laughably misinformed.
        Golly, DeeDub, are you really so easy to dupe?

    • This GND is a gift to Trumplicans for 2020.

      Perhaps for now. But then I remember all through the 90’s I used to laugh at a certain conservative radio talk show host when he did his “Environmentalist Wacko Updates” skits.

      You could laugh then because they just wanted to do it . . .

  12. “There are numerous socialist policies mandated under the Green New Deal that would harm tens of millions Americans and drive up the national debt to unsustainable heights. Just some of those policies include single-payer health care, a national tuition-free college program, a promise to provide every American with ‘healthy food,’ a national basic income program, a universal promise for housing and ‘economic security,’ and a plan to ‘upgrade’ every single building in the country, including every American’s home.“

    I love all of that. It neednt drive up the national debt though. Simply create the money without taxes or borrowing, taxing only as needed to control inflation, using the countries vast natural assets as reserves to back the country (land, energy, water, food, minerals, forests)

    Go back and formalize a new Bretton Woods to fix currencies exchange rates based on agreement for currency creation as a percentage of each nations proven resources

    As for elimination of carbon based energy. Pure hogwash. Focus on infrastructure development and manufacturing the things we use to avoid too many . imports. That is thtown in their to enforce more austerity measures and controls. Its a trap and the rest is bait. Keep the bait and avoid the trap.

    • So you can just create trillions of dollars of fiat money, and it won’t have any impact on the economy?
      Tell that to the Wiemar Republic, and Venezuela.

    • Last week we could not afford a wall that cost less than the fight by leftists to prevent it.
      This week umpteen bajillion dollars to rebuild the entire country and outlaw everything from milk and cheese to planes and cars…well, that much is chump change we can easily afford by ramping up the printing press at the mint.

      I am wondering who is going to rebuild every structure in the country if they are guaranteed a cushy life of abject laziness if they do not feel like working?
      Makes me lazy just writing about it.

  13. She has no idea of how the economy works.

    She has no understanding of how manufacturing works.

    She has no understanding of how the economy works.

    She has no understanding of our dependency on energy.

    She has no understanding of from where we get energy.

    She has no understanding of how the world works.

    • She has no understanding of global warming, climate change, climate disruption…I wish someone would just ask her some basic questions about climate change (CO2 etc.). Someone like Ted Cruz, not letting her get away with her wrong, non answers or out and out lies.

      • I wish someone would ask her some basic questions about basic climate, period. Forget about “change”. Bet she has no idea what causes the winds, ocean currents, etc. Probably hasn’t a clue what latitude is, etc. And then someone could always pin her on what the ideal or “normal” levels of CO2, sea level, etc. are. Nobody has an answer for that.

  14. This is the sage wisdom of a aging bartender…

    Lets see, the World Trade Center collapsed in 2001, and the replacement building didn’t open until near the end of 2014.

    That is just one building. And she wants to rid the US of every building, every reliable power plant and every aircraft, replace it with ???? all within ten years – and do it with unionized labor.

    If she is the model of the intelligence of the Millennial generation, is there anyone within that generation that can design anything other than a mobile app? How exactly does that Phd in romantic comedies translate into any useful skill in forming this Utopia?

    I’m still laughing at how comprehensively stupid the “high-speed rail” across the ocean is.

  15. All it will take is that 51 % of the voting population to be taken in by the promise of the “Free things “and you will have your Green revolution. All it needs is a few millions of “of the so called “Refuges from South America and other parts of the world, and her “Dream” will come true.
    Whilst from our point of view her in Australia there are faults with the USA system, overall its a good system and most important it actually works.


  16. The original New Deal can be argued about ’til the cows come home. It may, or may not, have prevented the growth of a Communist party in America. I know folks who were raised on the Great Plains during the dirty thirties. It was really miserable. People might have supported a tyrant who promised to make things better. The thing that ended unemployment was WW2. Nobody argues with that.

    There is no need now for a New Deal. The economy is doing great and unemployment is at record lows. link The only people who would support a New Deal are the deluded and those who think the world owes them a living.

    • The Communist party was thwarted by having most of it’s platform adopted and enacted by one of the major parties.
      The people did support a tyrant.

      • For a brief time in the 1950s and 1960s, America was a workers’ paradise, then the workers were betrayed by the Democrats.

        • The only reason why it was a workers paradise was because the rest of the industrialized west was still rebuilding from WWII.
          It was a period that could not last.
          Had industry taken the money that was being earned and invested it in new plants and equipment, the good times could have continued.
          Unfortunately they used it to buy labor peace instead.
          As a result, when Europe and Japan finished rebuilding, their brand spanking new factories easily out competed the 30 and 40 year old factories still being used in the US.
          Labor’s solution was to ban all competition in a desperate attempt to keep the gravy train going.

  17. The coal fired power plants and natural gas fiord power plants should not have to shut down. They should only have to reduce their emissions. Even though I developed these technologies in Canada they are now with me in the USA. The coal plants can emit no vapor emissions whatsoever with the ZECCOM™¹(Zero Emissions Coal Combustion) Process, and with no vapor emissions there would be no reason to shut them down. The natural gas fired power plants, can emit no vapor emissions whatsoever with the ZENGCOM™¹ (Zero Emissions Natural Gas Combustion) Process, and with no emissions there would be no logical reason for shutting them down.

    • Zero emission coal and NG. Sounds Good!
      You specifically say “no vapor emissions”. Are you talking about water vapor?

      The emission of interest in the GND is carbon dioxide, which is a gas not a “vapor”.
      Please endeavor to be accurate in your communications here.

      If you really are proposing carbon dioxide free fossil fuel system, we would all love to hear all about it.
      In the meantime, I would like to hook you up with one Sid Abma, who comes by here from time to time to pester us.
      Here is his latest video explaining his “clean coal” plan.


    • How about we save a whole bunch of money on top, and ditch your ZEECOM. Then all will be right with the world. Honestly, it takes a special brand of stupid to buy into carbon capture and sequestration.

  18. Hahaha, hohoho, and a couple of ladidas,
    That’s how we pass the day away in the merry of land of Oz
    (not Australia, the fictional Oz)

  19. The Plan would guarantee “a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States.” Irresistible, and very promising.

    This comes from people who have successfully redefined “marriage”, “science”, “peer review”, and “free speech”. Conclusion: “family-sustaining”, “adequate”, and “retirement security” will follow.

  20. Thank God our founding fathers made it difficult to get legislation enacted. This is exactly what they were trying to prevent or slow down. These progressives would shove this down our throats today if they could. The founding fathers were brilliant.

  21. I am stunned by the utter stupidity of these guys oops girls. Just imagine alone the jobs that would be lost if all the airplanes in the USA were grounded tomorrow. This alone would put the economy in a tail spin.

    OK and gasoline guzzling cars are now illegal. Everybody tomorrow is driving their electric car to work. The demand for electricity would shut down the grid almost instantly. I would guess that even if you could supply it the amount of new power needed would be unbelievable. Would not be surprised if 10 times more would not be enough to keep everything going. I suspect that it would be 50 or 100 times or more. OK where are you going to get all that extra power? We know that wind mills and solar are basically useless. So that means building hundreds if not thousands of new electricity power plants run by good old fashioned coal and natural gas to supply it. The good old USA has got lots of coal and gas. But whats the point all these needed new power plants would still be putting huge amounts of CO2 in to the atmosphere. So what would be the difference? We still would be doing that but in a different way. And yes I know that CO2 is a good thing. I am not criticizing that.

    Their lack of any brains is astounding, can’t they think anything through.

    Heres another thing and that is the amount of power in those 2 huge engines to say get a big Boeing 787 in to the air. The amount of raw energy supplied by the kerosene fuel is huge. You could not supply that with electricity from a battery and even if you could the battery would be took big and way too heavy. The airplane would never get off the ground and would have a significantly reduced payload. Totally out of the question and even if you could do that which you cannot you could not get to your destination. You would run the huge batteries down very quickly. The power drain would be massive. Typically a big airliner engines uses say something like 600 kg of fuel just to taxi from the gate to the runway.

    Cheers from a cold Canadian freezing in the dark. Anybody and all like to contribute so I can fly south to Florida in a gas guzzling Boeing? So I can thaw out.

  22. Implementing communism (let’s not pretend what they are advocating is socialism lite, what they are describing is pure communism) is bad enough. Tying it together with mandating only energy sources that can barely produce as much energy as it took to build is a guarantee of civil war and millions of dead.

  23. I started reading the New Green Deal and stopped when I read something about racial injustice in it. At that point I knew it was hogwash.

  24. The Heartland Institute is worth our support Venezuela has been run on exactly these lines.

    Thank You Democratic Socialists for this gift. We will use it to maximum effect

  25. My son calls it “The Green Leap Forward” in memory of Mao’s “Great Leap Forward”. It fits.

  26. I believe in their proposal they acknowledge that zero emissions is not possible so they are looking for net zero emissions, which I guess means carbon credits and a robust carbon trading market. What could possibly go wrong with that?

  27. All I can say, even if this were technically feasible (which of course it is not), to have the Government run this huge change in our economy is suicide. First of all it will cost 10 times what it would need to cost and would work one-tenth as well if private company acted to implement it.

    Anyone remember after the billions and billions that the Government spent on putting together a simple Obamacare website. When they flipped the switch, only a dozen people a day could purchase healthcare. This was also repeated as failures on state run websites also.

  28. To a kid starting out, 10 years from now must seem like an eternity away,
    but to the more wiser amongst us, we know it is just a blink

  29. As has been said many times before, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. If the SCotUS doesn’t squash most, if not all, of their plans, look for states, from the borders of Mexico to Canada, to secede. It will be quite simple if it comes to that. By then, anyone with assets, skills, incomes, or intelligence will have moved to one of those states. Perhaps legislatures in those states will enact pre-emptive “sanctuary state” laws saying they will not participate in any of these proposed government programs.

    The east and west coast morons can watch each other starve. If it comes to a physical confrontation, guess which side has all the guns and ammo.

    Wealth, guns, income. Want it? Molon Labe. And I’m one of the more peaceful, non-violent, non-confrontational guys.

    • “Guess which side has all the guns and ammo.”

      Indeed, one side has 350 million weapons and maybe a trillion rounds of ammo, while the other side can’t work out which bathroom to use.

  30. This is not a serious proposal, of course. If the GND was at all serious about weaning the country off of fossil fuels, front and center would be Nuclear Power, straight up. To go one step further, we would be talking Thorium, as well as Uranium. There is no other possibility.
    Above, MarkV1 frets that China will steal a march on us if we do not go down this path. This is a standard talking point from the Left by now. Curiously both China and India have vigorous Thorium programs. They very well could steal a march on us with our moribund nuclear industry.
    Of course, to the modern Left, and nuclear proposal is more radioactive and lethal than any nuke plant ever was.
    So the GND is not serious, but it is dangerous. Very dangerous.
    They are promising Free Stuff to the Free Stuff Brigades, and the troops are turning out in force.
    Vast numbers of young people want free college and free health care. Worse, they feel entitled as this is their Right. Free “Clean and Green” is just more of the package.

    Dangerous. Very Dangerous.

  31. Seriously move to Australia before it’s too late.
    If you’re young, you have less than 50-years.
    If you’re old, it’s too late.
    Socialist hell is coming to America.
    The ‘billionaires’ are currently paying for it and there’s very little anyone can do about it (including Trump & Co).
    Do you think the billionaires are incompetent investors?

  32. Folks,

    We’ve seen this before.

    It (the Green gambit) is an effort to dominate the political conversation via
    flooding the idea market to see what floats and what doesn’t catch on with
    the voting public.

    An omnibus plan like the “Green New Deal” is a bit like a smorgasbord. where
    you can either try a little bit of everything or just stick with the meat and potatoes
    with a bit of dessert at the end.

    It does no good to name-call the proponents of such lofty ideas… they wear such
    epithets as badges of courage, proudly considering them as battle scars.

    If you successfully pick apart one part of the “Deal” they’ll simply move on to
    another aspect of the plan and you get to play the game again. Meanwhile they
    lambaste you for being obstructionists or worse.

    The “Deal” is an opening move in power politics.

    As the Queen recommended to the pro/con Brexit folks, be polite.

  33. She won’t get a second term. The Democrats won’t allow it and anyone who thinks they can’t stop her is naive. She’s already recognized as a loose canon and along with the other radical house members recently elected ….. all on platforms of Socialism and minority appeasement …. people are taking notice of the beast that’s been created. That beast only plays in big cities and universities where the majority, but not all, are disconnected from reality in the USA. Successful minorities, and there are many more than unsuccessful, don’t want the American status quo upset because they worked for it and it works for them. Yes my glass is half full.

  34. Thomas Sowell said: “Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.”

  35. There is only one type of person who could come up with this idea.
    First part of the word rhymes with duck, the second part is wit.

  36. Let’s just be thankful that their entire green wet dream would require tearing up the entire constitution, so it has no chance of actually happening. More likely it will just result in middle america moving more towards the GOP in the next election, while the liberal echo chamber on the coasts whip themselves into a frenzy.

    The only real risks I see are 1) if Trump wins reelection, the Calexit movement may very well proceed in earnest, with the end being either mass arrests for treason or outright civil war, and 2) if the libs win, their only chance to implement any of this nonsense is to proceed with their “stack the court” strategy, which could also lead to civil war.

    • When Trump wins re-election.
      There, fixed it for you.
      As for the rest of that, CA is not going anywhere.
      They need us more than we need them.

  37. Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) is that special kind of stupid that keeps on giving to Republicans across the Nation. Joined now with his fellow traveler AO-C. One could add their two IQs together and still not break a 100.

  38. Snarky Malarky and Coco Loco Cortez – Chief editor and publisher of “The Deranged Donkey” . When the world is gonna end in 10 , sanity is not an option, and you’re planning on running in 12, what do you have to lose ?

    • “Given Ocasio-Cortez’s direct connections to former members of McKibben’s and the Bernie Sanders presidential campaign, as well as the close similarities between the language of the Green New Deal and the policies proposed by key environmentalists involved with the “Leap Manifesto,” it seems very likely much of the Green New Deal is nothing more than a recycled version of a failed, three-year-old socialist proposal from Canada.”

  39. I have not had time to read the comments and see how many have considered the farmers ability to continue.

    Are they going back to horses or use half their farm to produce ethanol? Either way it takes a lot of energy to produce high yield crops.

    • “Are they going back to horses”

      Well, the Green New Deal proposes to do away with cattle because they produce methane gas as part of their biology, and I think that probably applies to horses, too, so we may have to resort to harnessing humans to pull those carts and wagons.

  40. The resolution calls for the United States to embark on a 10-year “economic mobilization” with the goal to “achieve net-zero greenhouse gas emissions…”

    Let’s say they manage to accomplish their impossible fantasy in ten years. What good will it do? Other countries will not be stupid enough or able to afford to do the same thing. So if 4.4% of the world’s population living on 6% of the world’s land are able to achieve net-zero greenhouse gas emissions, it won’t put a dent in the worldwide emission rate. The fossil fuels we don’t use will be scooped up by other countries at a discount rate. China and India alone will increase their emissions by more than what we currently emit in short order. That means we will spend trillions to accomplish nothing except to destroy our economy and make us ripe for takeover by our enemies.

    • Yes. This is really not about taking action on global warming. The universal demand among the climate activists is that the US shall take hugely expensive actions which will obviously, on the most basic analysis, neither lower US emissions materially nor affect global emissions at all.

      What you notice is that there is never any explanation of what the effect of the proposed measures will be.

      This is a cultural crisis, not a climate crisis. There may or may not be a global climate crisis, but the US cultural crisis is the widespread mania for doing things which, if the alarmed are correct, is a totally ineffective response to it.

      The US, and not just the US, but the US to a greater extent than any other nation, has spent the last 50 years teaching its entire population of college students that reality is whatever you think it is. The products of the Left Bank nonsense factory dominate liberal arts faculties, and AOC as a typical product of the culture has no idea how even to think connectedly.

      And so it seems reasonable to her to propose eliminating US fossil fuel use in ten years, and it doesn’t occur to her or her supporters that you might need any kind of plan to show the stages of how that would be brought about and what the country would look like. And it also seems reasonable to her to do this in the name of solving the climate crisis, without it being at all necessary to specify what quantitative effects the action, even were it sucessful in itself, could have on the climate crisis.

      The current American cultural revolution began sometime in the sixties. It continued to gather momentum through the early decades of the present century. We are now approaching Thermidor, and the reaction will begin. Trump is only a precursor of it. When it comes with full force it will be unmistakable, very far reaching, and dramatic.

      After Thermidor comes some form of authoritarian rule focussed on completely different matters from those which dominated the revolution. They vanish from view, they simply become irrelevant, no-one thinks about them any more. And a while after that, we have the Restoration.

  41. Rebuilding or upgrading all buildings in the United States would require a lot of seasoned timber as it is the typical framing material. and it would need to move by rail and truck so the building will need a lot of time to be completed.. Global Warming will be upon us by then according to the received opinion.

    As to to the builders, these days they need to be qualified and they use electrical tools !
    Where do all the builders come from if they cannot travel by air? By ship? At present many professional building technicians travel around the world to scenes of disasters. They won’t go where they need hammers and handsaws.
    Jobless youths can be trained if they have the aptitude but that takes time and where are the instructors to come from?

    • Imagine the wasted energy and resources involved in these rebuilds/upgrades.

      It is usually pretty wasteful to demo something long before its useful lifetime is approaching.

  42. I have tremendous respect for bartenders. I’ve known some great ones. The one at my local is near perfect.

    I would never vote for him to be anything other than a bartender, though.

    I mean, we elected our AOC as Prime Minister up here in Canada so we can’t really brag about getting things right, but still…

  43. In 2016, avowed Socialist Bernie Sanders, running as Democrat for the Presidential nomination, committed the cardinal sin among Democrats for his health-care and welfare proposals. Bernie clearly articulated that his proposals would need at least $10 Trillion in new taxes in the first 10 years, with a heavy tax rate on the wealthy, a key Democrat constituency in New York and California donors. Democrats aren’t supposed to talk about how much their policies would cost in the out years, especially in new taxes. Bernie broke that rule.

    I frequently compare the alarmist rhetoric of climate change to a Trojan Horse agenda. A facade to scare people with socialism and power for the Democrats as its real purpose.

    Today in 2019, we can thank Ms AO-C finally, openly exposing the Democrats’ climate change agenda. She finally removed the Green Curtain facade and exposed what is really inside the Climate Change facade — Socialism.
    And then told us how much money (which is low-ball estimate for sure) and it would need in new taxes, hammering the rich but of course recognizing the Middle Class would get hit hard too.

    The end of the Climate Scam is now at hand as the Socialism that powers it has been laid bear for all Americans to see. And Trump ambushed them at the SOTU address with his declaration against Socialism.
    Green socialists in the US don’t realize it, but they are mortally wounded now and bleeding out.

  44. People both for and against this “Green New Deal” concept are calling it socialism but if you read the actual text of the congressional resolution rolled out earlier today, you could be forgiven for seeing it as something else.

    All the language about harnessing the entire populace to a glorious “national mobilization” and government directing every aspect of the economy to advance that unified national purpose is very strongly suggestive of fascism, a term that would undoubtedly set AOC’s hair on fire.

    Nevertheless, it wouldn’t be entirely unbelievable to find she doesn’t actually grasp what she’s advocating.

    • The Wall Street Journal Op-Ed today noted about the Green New Deal’s ,
      “…as imagined by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, all of this would be planned by a Select Committee For a Green New Deal. Soviet five-year plans were more modest. ”

      If they were still around, Soviet 5 year planners would blush with envy at what a US Senator and Congressperson seems to think is a good idea.

      Ms AO-C’s and Mr Markey’s proposal is simply full-on Communism. No doubt about that.

  45. Civil-war will come (eventually) because the ‘green billionaires’ are paying for the NGD.
    They’re not stupid; they’re successful investors.
    A brief civil war will occur when California first declares secession to fight climate change.
    It’s all planned.
    The Feds will try to remove Cal Gov and that will set many battle lines.
    Other States will secede in solidarity and to fight (the immediate existential threat of climate change).
    They’ll ban fossil fuels and many non-socialist activities.
    Opposing groups within subject States will become hostile and small running street battles will occur.
    War is good for the military complex.
    The Feds will attempt to crack-down on State secession.
    The military will become divided (it’s already infested with climate socialist).
    Fundamentalism and fanaticism on both sides will grow furiously.
    The media and academia (controlled by the billionaires) will begin pumping our propaganda for the new order.
    People who can afford to leave will flee to safe countries (like Australia; forget Canada).
    States that reject the NGD will have low cost electricity so many energy intensive manufacturers will move operations there.
    RED states will become very RED and there’ll be a concentration of right-leaning businesses and people in the low-cost energy States.
    Now the ‘forts’ and battle grounds are known.
    Cal will be the first to attack with a missile strike on an oil refinery in the RED State that most threatens them because of inaction (on catastrophic climate change).
    The Feds will retaliate with a ground strike to seize control of the Cal ‘media’ and ‘politicians’ in their homes.
    Socialist US Army and Navy Generals in Cal will meet to plan retaliation . . .

  46. Ocrazio-Cortez’s plan almost makes one wonder if a conservative think tank “punked” her with an “Onion” style green energy plan as a practical joke. She certainly is making a name for herself – and it’s not a good one.

  47. The “plan” is (not surprisingly) a bit short on details about exactly how the aims are to be achieved. It’s not significantly different from the plan proposed by Naomi Klein for Canada last year (does anyone even remember that one?). The lack of budget numbers is striking.

    The 70 percent tax rate on incomes over $10 million seems pretty tame though.

    In the 1950s, when American power, prestige and prosperity were at their zenith, the marginal income tax rate was 91 percent. That rate applied to income over $200,000 (about $1.9 million in today’s money)

    The 72% rate kicked in at an income of $44,000 (about $400,000 today)

    Life went on, as far as I can tell.

    In the UK, the marginal income tax rate at the top end was 95 percent (“If 5 percent should seem too small, be grateful I don’t take it all”)

    • The nominal tax rates in the 1950’s were strictly that, nominal. There were enough write-offs and deductions the real world tax rate was not much higher than currently, unless one had utterly incompetent tax accountants and lawyers.

    • Yes, in the late 40s, all the 50s and until 1964, the top marginal rate was 91%. There were only 640 tax filers who paid that in 1954, as an example, and only 201 who had Adjusted Gross Income over $1 Million. But here is the important thing, forgotten by most, and the most important thing, the Effective Rate, that is the percent of Gross Income actually paid in taxes by those in the Top 1% of income earners was only 32-34% for most of those years. In some of those years the top 1% paid an Effective Rate as low as 30%. Today the Effective Tax Rate for the top 1% is 27%.
      There is a myth that there was massive income redistribution during those high top marginal rates. Yes, the top paid higher Effective Rates, but there were so few paying those rates, as a percentage of taxes paid, it was chump change. As an example in 1954, again, the millionaires paid less than 0.3% of total taxes paid.
      Also, keep in mind that in constant dollars median family income in the early 1950s was 1/3 what it is today.
      I have no problem with the very wealthy paying a higher Effective Tax Rate. But don’t expect there to be a huge windfall. If taxes for those earning over $10 Million were to double that would generate only $120 Billion. We spend $4.4 Trillion a year, with $3 Trillion spent on Social Programs. Our deficit is going to be $800-900 Billion this year and growing.
      None of these economic illiterates ever talk about reducing the deficit or acknowledge in FY 2020 the Debt Service cost to the budget will be $426 Billion . Adding taxes to the rich generates just so much and unknown is how much it might hurt investments and economic growth.
      The biggest threat to this country is not AGW. It is lack of growth in our income. Between 1945 and 2000, Real Growth in Income averaged 3.3% per year. Since 2000, it has averaged 1%. If Real Growth in Income had averaged 1% from 1945 to now, our Median Household Income would be $20,000 rather than $61,000 that it is.
      Let’s see how many wonderful, pie in the sky Programs we can afford in 50 years if we continue with only 1% Real Growth in our Income.
      AOC and her fellow travelers have to come back to a simple calculation. Out total Gross Income is $10.2 Trillion. It is growing in Real terms only 1% per year. The Federal Government spends $4.4 Trillion. State & Local Government spends $2 Trillion. Her earlier proposal of Freebies for All added another $4 Trillion per year. And now the Green New Deal of untold costs. With the Government Spending so much…..
      Who will have any money for a McDonalds?

      • The problem with having high marginal rates for the wealthy is that the wealthy aren’t stupid.
        They are going to hire accountants and lawyers whose job it will be to minimize the total taxes paid.
        The result is lots of money going to investments that minimize the tax hit, rather than investments that maximize the economic benefit.

        If you like hindering the economy is such a fashion, that’s good. As for me, when given the choice of a good paying job, or socking it to some rich guy, I choose the good paying job.

    • Something happened prior to the 50’s that made it possible for the US to dominate the rest of the world economically.
      Perhaps you’ve heard of it. The history books usually call it WWII. As a result of this war most of Europe and Japan were flattened. Not a working factory to be found.
      The consumers in these countries wanted stuff, and the rebuilding factories needed stuff. The only place to go for this stuff was the US. (There were a few other places, such as Argentina that could supply stuff, but their factories weren’t capable of churning out the volumes needed.)

      This is why the US economy was able to withstand those high tax rates.
      If you want to bring back such tax rates, you are going to have to destroy all the factories in the rest of the world first.

  48. A recent quick tally of mineral resources (hypothetically) needed to build wind turbines to supply all electrical power here in Washington State shows it won’t happen–no enviro would allow it. Our state has lots of hydropower but our president-wanna-be global-warming-pretender-expert governor wants to end that too along with coal that’s now outlawed along with his tame renewable portfolio standards that will increase power costs at least seven-fold if not kill thousands in 20 years. Madness for sure but the right coast cannot monopolize the smarties deficit. To build wind turbines to supply all electric power for 9.7 million residents in Washington State (not DC) would for most minerals extracted far, far exceed one year’s US-wide production in 2018 of mineral resources needed. I assumed 1000 kwhrs/mo per household. I have a chart and Excel but cannot figure how to upload it, so here’s the “quick stats”, in order by commodity of 1,000s of tons produced in US annually and 1,000s of tons needed for Washington State’s wind turbines (data from varied sources mostly 2018 USGS Mineral Commodity Summaries):….
    Neodymium & dysprosium rare earths for magnets: 0 produced–674 needed;
    molybdenum for steel: 45 produced–8,606 needed;
    oil to make fiberglas: 603,670 produced–17,603 needed;
    silica sand for fiberglas: 55,115 produced–28,752 needed;
    cement for concrete: 94,688 produced–128,946 needed;
    limestone for steel and fiberglas (cement need not included): 733,030 produced–227,473 needed
    steel: 90,389 produced–430,302 needed;
    coal for elec. generation, cement making, coke for steel making: 761,689 produced–438,879 needed;
    sand, gravel for aggregate: 981,047 produced–650,524 needed;
    iron ore for steel: 51,036 produced–860,604 needed;
    soil excavated: 2,390,565,333….larger than any mine on earth
    Of course this does not include transportation, construction, mining, electric power, copper, transmission and whatever else. The area needed at 100 acres/turbine, 26% operating efficiency, using 1% siting efficiency (avoiding impact of grizzly bear, wolf, spotted frog, yellow carp, blue gopher, busy bee habitats….), producing 0.91 watts/sq m for 1.44 million turbines at 226,000 sq miles is an area 320% larger area than the total area of the state.

  49. Cong. AOC has me reminding myself that I have (for a while now) subscribed to the philosophy that far-left and far-right ideologies need to be inherently totalitarian in order to really work. There of course has been some evidence of this from history, and evidence still exists today in numerous countries.

    If Cong. AOC decides to run for President in 2028 or later (when she will be of age) but does not get the Democratic Party nomination, I suggest there are alternative party nominations that she could consider and pursue:

    The last one above claims to be democratic socialist, so it might be particularly appealing.

    It disconcerting for my generation (the post-WWII baby boomers) and our parents (the generation that fought WWII — God bless them) to have lived through the Cold War on one hand and now see the rise of far-left politics on the other. AOC and the millennials, having not experienced the Cold War first hand, might not have a really good grasp of what it was all about. As the saying goes, we don’t always know what a good thing we have until we’ve lost it. AOC and the millennials seem to take too much for granted these days.

    The Soviet Union and its East European satellites never were able to match (much less exceed) the economic prosperity of the West. Those of us who lived through the Cold War should know that. AOC and the millennials do not seem to. Yes, there are problems that are inherent in a free market economic system. But using the power of govt to wage legislative and ideological war on it isn’t the answer. Other than charities and govt social safety nets for the poor and needy, I don’t know what is. No supporters of any economic system should ever claim that their system is perfect.

    Here’s hoping that AOC and her far-left socialism is just a passing political fad like the bell-bottom jeans and disco music fads were in the 1970s. The Bee Gees were great.

  50. I thought “socialism”” involved ownership and control of utilities and companies etc by the state. Not just social welfare or redistribution of wealth among citizens. We already have tons of that in western countries.

    • “I thought “socialism”” involved ownership and control of utilities and companies etc by the state. Not just social welfare or redistribution of wealth among citizens. We already have tons of that in western countries.”

      Socialism = Control Freaks

      Control Freaks want to control every aspect of other people’s lives. Their undermining of society starts out slow and eventually takes over everything in the society. Venezuela is a good example.

      The United States is another good example. The socialists have managed to take over society’s means of mass communication, the News and Entertainment Media, and have taken over the nation’s school system, and almost took control of the U.S. government on a permanent basis under Barack Obama.

      Obama almost managed to successfully prevent Trump from being elected by using the power of the government against Trump to put another socialist/ control freak, Hillary Clinton, in Office as his successor. And then Hillary would have continued the unlawful, unconstitutional attacks on the opposition party to prevent them from ever gaining access to the presidency again, in order to keep herself and those she favored in Office in perpetuity. And this particular battle is still ongoing and the outcome is uncertain.

      This Obama/Hillary coup attempt might have worked except it appears that Trump must be pure as the driven snow because despite the tremendous efforts expended by these enemies of the people, to get Trump, they can’t find a thing to use against him.

      Now the Democrat-led House is ramping up their efforts to undermine a duly elected government by going after Trump’s personal tax records and after his family and associates, which have nothing to do with his presidency. They are desperate to find anything they can use to undermine Trump because he is destroying the socialist agenda, and demonstrating the right way to run the U.S. government. Trump is being successful, despite the blizzard of criticism thrown his way every day, and he is showing that socialism is a dangerous farce, and this is killing the Left.

      We have a bunch of leftist control freaks in the U.S. government who are trying to take over our lives and run them for us. We should not allow this to happen. The government works for the People, not the other way around.

    • andy, how do you think you are going to get the “social welfare” or “redistribution of wealth among citizens”?

  51. Roosevelt’s New Deal had the opposite effect that was intended and prolonged the Depression in the US, was coercive (for instance a tailor was imprisoned for pressing a suit for 35 cents instead of the fixed price of 40 cents), and many of the legislative provisions were ruled unconstitutional.
    Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal is tippy-top insanity and the necessary legislation wouldn’t survive ten minutes in U.S. Supreme Court.

    • Only so long as we have a majority of Supreme Court justices that actually understand and follow the consisitution. Had Hillary won, that wouldn’t be the case. Thank God for the Justices appointed by President Trump. May he soon get the chance to replace more of the left-wing loons that are still on the court

  52. AOC reminds me of what CIA director William Casey said.

    “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false”

    I’m becoming convinced that everything in the MSM is 100% scripted and completely fictional. That goes for most of the internet too. In what sane universe can an Alexandria Occasional-Cortex brain become an elected representative, how deep does the rabbit hole get, is it all a joke?

      • Supposedly he said it in a 1981 cabinet meeting. a google search mainly turns up conspiracy type sites, no “legitimate”/Mainstream news sources that I could find. The main source of the quotes (according to one site) traces back to Mae Brussell, the late political researcher and host of the radio show Dialogue: Conspiracy. that site then goes on to point out that “Brussell is not the only person that can be attributed to this sharing quote”. Apparently Barbara Honegger on a post to Quora in response to a meme that used the alleged quote claims to be a witness to Casey saying it and thus the source of the quote:

        “I am the source for this quote, which was indeed said by CIA Director William Casey at an early February 1981 meeting of the newly elected President Reagan with his new cabinet secretaries to report to him on what they had learned about their agencies in the first couple of weeks of the administration….I was present at the meeting as Assistant to the chief domestic policy adviser to the President….As he did to all the other secretaries of their departments and agencies, Reagan asked what he saw as his goal as director for the CIA, to which he replied with this quote, which I recorded in my notes of the meeting as he said it. “

        • googling Barbara Honegger reveals she’s a bit of a conspiracy nut herself. She’s known as the clock lady, the woman who believes that the clocks all stopped at 9:32 in the Pentagon on 9-11, thereby disproving the government’s claim that the Pentagon was hit at 9:37

        • Basically, it looks a lot like Trumps alleged “S-Hole countries” comment in that it’s been alleged to have been said but there’s no recording of him ever saying it, just someone’s word that he said it. But hey, Barbara Honegger a woman so we have to believe her, right?

  53. One doesn’t need to be a member of some think tank to understand that this “Green Deal” is sheer madness. I sincerely hope that Americans are not as gullible as this shrill and stupid woman imagines.

    And why is it that so many filthy rich people support and finance socialist madness? Ask this question every time they start telling you fairy tales about the socialist land of milk and honey.

    Socialism equals death. I’ve seen it. Period.

    • And why is it that so many filthy rich people support and finance socialist madness?

      because they believe they’ll be among the elites that run the show. They don’t expect to be trapped in misery with the masses who will suffer under their mad policies.

  54. I thank God every day for President Donald J Trump. Without his leadership, they would be making this madness reality.

  55. I like this bit:
    Economic security for all who are unable or unwilling to work.

    People who are unwilling to work get to enjoy economic security ? Eh? What?

    Dear GOP.
    Please make sure you win in 2020.

  56. The new infrastructure and building upgrade projects would create as many, if not more, jobs than are lost.

    • I’ve had a sneaking suspicion for a while now that Kym, Percy and griff are paid to post here to make credulous climate warriors look like idiots.

    • How do all these people get to their New jobs? How are all the additional building materials produced? How are all the additional building materials transported. Is most of the global warming caused by socialists blowing hot air? Will the hot air they blow produce enough wind energy to accomplish their goal? Is the Green Dream a comedy skit?

    • And breaking windows creates more jobs for window makers. It’s called the broken window fallacy

    • And if we broke every window in town, think of all the work the glaziers will have.

      griff, I know that you like to portray your ignorance, but do you have to start so early in the morning?

      • If I have the time zones right, Griff is in the UK, which is four hours ahead of the US east coast time.

        • I think it’s usually 5 though Daylight savings time can much that up a bit (the two countries have different start/stop times for daylight savings) Currently 6:10am London time (when Griff posted) is 1 :10am Washington DC/Eastern time. Either way it can be considered early in the morning.

          • Correction, I thought forum was displaying local time, but looking at the timestamp on the post I just made it looks like it’s showing California time which has an 8 hour time difference from London, So Griff posted at 9:10am London time (1:10 am Cali/Pacific time) – so not quite as early in the morning as it seemed.

    • So griff, you’re saying all these new jobs will be a boon to the economy. Please explain how this will be great while just rebuilding only coastal cities in the advent of one or more meter sea level rise would be disastrous????????

    • Idiot. The system has a certain amount of resiliency built into it so that the loss of one generating station doesn’t have a noticeable effect. Try closing a few more right on the heels of that one and see how that works out.

      • Paul, Over on the Green New Deal article, didn’t you just get finished chastising others for using insults?

        • No, for using silly schoolyard name calling; for example, making fun of someone’s name, which they have no control over. In this case, griff said something idiotic, and this is not the first time, so I called him/her out on it. At some point, when someone refuses to debate honestly and in good faith, I don’t feel the need to be polite anymore. But to avoid even the appearance of being a hypocrite, I’ll just call him/her a liar from now on.

  57. Venezuelan States Of America ???

    Think twice “revolucion” obsessed youngsters. No free meal. Example Venezuela where this ideology comes from.

    With oil reserves and geographical position, potentially a dream hub for air travel.

    However instead of fighting for presence and slots, airlines massively avoid the place and pull out their interests.

    Don’t you ask yourselves why an industry where every cent comes at a cost actively avoids tanking on what’s probably the lowest priced fuel planetwide ?

    That many financial analysts, route planners, dispatchers, worldwide, got it all wrong and avoid Venezuela because they don’t know where it is ?

    Grow up.

  58. I listen to morons like Cortex for entertainment purposes. As a child I would watch Dark Shadows or Edge of Night for creepy soap opera thrillers or As The World Turns for shenanigans. Now I watch Cortex news.

  59. Cortex is a Chinese and Russian dream. We should push this crap on them, and watch them implode.

  60. I read somewhere that some time ago AOC had strong conservative opinions. This Green New Deal is simply nuts and is a gift to the GOP. Which brings up the thought that AOC might be a Trogan Horse.

    • While there is a lot of comedy on this thread, let me share with you a really funny happening back in the 60’s. ABC was televising the UCLA (nickname the Bruins) vs Southern Cal (nickname the Trojans) college football game. They were panning the crowd and someone from the UCLA side was holding a sign that said “Puncture the Trojans”. The image stayed on the screen for quite a while until the director finally realized what it was referring to.

      • That reminds me of a time back around the time Pac-Man was a popular arcade game. In school we had various shop classes, and in one we were designing and making buttons. This one smart-alec boy designed a button with a Pac-Man and a Cherry with the words “#1 Cherry Popper”. The teacher initially approved the button until one of the girls in the class explained the non-Pac-man meaning of the slogan to him.

    • Earl … ya know … I haven’t thought of that. I mean .. AOC is completely over the top, and as mentioned in a recent WSJ article, her bill reads like a parody if the GOP where to define the DNC positions.

      Wouldn’t that be a hoot if AOC was a conservative plant, who won the NY district by pretending to be a democrat, just catering to the deranged DNC base with all the free-bee stuff and climate change crap, with the intention of floating an absurd bill that parodied the DNC positions on things for the purpose of getting the message out! Damn .. that would be fricken sweeeeeeet.

    • Since she’s promising “Economic security for all who are … unwilling to work” I’d say the answer to your question is an unequivocal yes.

  61. Green New Deal: ‘This isn’t just radical socialism, this is madness’

    Socialism is madness! Radical socialism is stupid insanity.

    The United States has been trending towards socialism since FDR, but the concept is the antithesis of the American Dream and the hugely successful American Experiment. It could not be presented openly and honestly to the American people. Instead, it has been introduced slowly and incrementally, using H. L. Mencken’s endless series of imaginary hobgoblins.

    While the Green New Deal is being universally condemned on this site, it is being universally praised on many other sites, and defended as plausible in the mainstream. The American people are buying into the Big Lie, and the cycle of human progress is about to turn into its next ‘dark’ phase, if it hasn’t already.

    From the Renaissance to the present, the human condition has been steadily improving, but instead of celebration, there is a growing desire to condemn and trash all of our progress for irrational fears and pipe dreams. It is a cancerous thought that has been growing for 100 years, and now infects many of the worlds dominant institutions, political movements and a growing percentage of the population. The resistance is loosing ground and the momentum towards the darkness is getting stronger.

    The biggest threat to a free and prosperous people will always be their fear and distrust for their freedom and prosperity.

    • Follow the yellow brick road and behind the curtain you will find The (Not) Federal (but private) Reserve. They made government BIG and We The People POOR. Big government will always run out of other people’s money. If you don’t abolish that cancer it will kill the body.
      You can’t pay a ‘New Green Deal’ in worthless dollars not even taxing the rich 100%.

    • It goes back a lot further than FDR. The elites have been wanting to run the rest of the country for their own benefit going all the way back to the founding fathers.

    • The so hated rich 1 % will pay for it. Remember all high ranking democrats belong to this so hated 1 %. Pelosi will love it.

  62. For those who don’t want to read the full resolution (available at ), here is a link to a concise summary of it:

    For amusement, I will just point out the following from the first response under the summary’s FAQ:
    “Yes, we are calling for a full transition off fossil fuels and zero greenhouse gases.
    Anyone who has read the resolution sees that we spell this out through a plan that
    calls for eliminating greenhouse gas emissions from every sector of the economy.
    Simply banning fossil fuels immediately won’t build the new economy to replace it –
    this is the plan to build that new economy and spells out how to do it technically. We
    do this through a huge mobilization to create the renewable energy economy as fast
    as possible. We set a goal to get to net-zero, rather than zero emissions, in 10 years
    because we aren’t sure that we’ll be able to fully get rid of farting cows and
    airplanes that fast, . . .”
    (yes, that is a verbatim quote . . . can you believe it???)

    Yeah, it will be tough to build highways across the world’s oceans within the next 10 years. I will leave it others to address that most critical issue (on the same level of eliminating airplanes) of eliminating farting cows.

  63. I am afraid all those statements in the article are assertions, not evidence evaluation.

    Let us look at a few possibilities:

    1. Universal health coverage.

    No American wishing not to be called a psychopathic and pathological liar can refute voluminous evidence that universal healthcare programmes in Western Europe consume less of GDP than Americans spent using their primitive HMO system. You lot sacrifice the basics for 50 million people so the top 5-10 million can have perfection. Simple economics says that if you spend less of GDP on health through universal coverage and single bulk purchaser drug cost savings, you Americans will have more money to spend on other things. Shameful….

    You can rant, scream and squeal all you like. Go look at European systems and how much cheaper they are. The rich can top themselves up, they already do anyway.

    2. You can rant and rave about energy, but if you build houses properly, domesticq energy usage can be markedly reduced. Modern glassware is a better insulator than masonry and the best glassware can now generate electricity. Commercial skyscrapers can become power stations. The technology exists and will improve. Designing houses to be energy neutral is well established in Europe. It may require different approaches in some parts of US, but costs of home energy can be radically reduced. More healthy homes means lower health bills. Healthier infants. More happiness, which all you Americans are told to pursue.

    Healthy homes are the bulwark of healthy societies. Each state has different climate, so may need different approaches. But making the most important place in society healthy, warm and hospitable should be priority one for every sane society.

    Those two I would say are achievable in ten years. The building sector and health cover. It is a good start.

    Removing oil from private auto transportation I reckon may take considerably longer. The challenge is the electricity generation issue. Replacing every gas station with rapid rechargers capable of keeping 200 million vehicles on the road will not happen quickly. To me, a reasonable ten year goal would be creating recharge technology capable of national scaling. I do not see it being possible to replace petrol cars in ten years. People will not tolerate willy nilly installations failing regularly. They will expect seamless transitions, like landlines to mobile phones. Capital investment ceilings for extra electricity generation suggest it will take a few decades.

    Similar arguments with airlines. Safety requirements suggest very conservative approaches to new technology introduction and people will not stop flying to kiss AOC’s ass. I would be very surprised to see elimination of oil from airlines before 2050, maybe not before 2100.

    Public transportation using renewables allows for more discrete roll out. Pilot projects can occur, be rigorously tested and then scaled when operating issues are ironed out. Within ten years, several flagship projects could be in pilot phase testing. Rapid airport-city centre shuttles. High speed rail routes. Electric greyhound buses being trialled on discrete routes. Local bus and tram services using electric. Commuter railways.

    You might roll out three dozen projects by 2030, with widespread uptake by 2050.

    There are energy implications to work out. But they are not insurmountable.

    The guaranteed wages, holidays and pensions is nothing to do with being Green. That is pure socialism which can occur in any generation, green technology or coal. It is domestic economics, not energy policy. And as democrats are not in power, I would suggest they need a Democratic President to get such proposals onto the statute books.

    Constructive argument rather than insults is probably the way to engage in arguments.

    Oil will run out one day, so the arguments about replacement are more to do with timing than necessity…

    I hope this froth is not all about demanding to steal all the Venezuelan oil…..

    • I would like to remind you that the US is a bankrupt nation and that a worthless fiat currency can’t do miracles.

    • 1. Is this why rich Europeans and Candians flock to the USA for their health care?

      2. Anything built by the government order fails and falls. Leave it to the capitalist building industry to define the demand, and to satisfy in the way that customers prefer.

      • I heard on the radio today (Hannity) about a Canadian who had exhausted his medical options in Canada and has decided to travel to the U.S. to get the medical care he needs. He’s not traveling because of costs, but because of lack of availability for what he needs.

        Perhaps the U.S. does spend more money on health care than European countries but a lot of that has to do with the implementation of Obamacare which drastically increased health care costs.

        A free market health care plan like Trump is going to implement will be much cheaper and much more available than what we have now or what the Europeans have now.

    • That which the government funds, it controls. I don’t want government bureaucrats deciding what kind of health care I can have or deserve. In the US, if I need/want an MRI, I can get one in a few days. In countries with “free” medicine, the wait is week or months, if ever. They can simply deny you if they don’t think it’s required. And it’s not usually doctors that are making these decisions. I recently had to have a bad tooth extracted. I only had to wait a couple of days to get into the dentist. My aunt in Toronto had to wait 3 weeks, in pain the entire time. She said after one week she would have been willing to pay out of pocket to get it done sooner, but no, that is illegal in Canada. Tooth pain is one of the worst pains there is, but that’s not considered an emergency there. No think you, you can keep your government run health care.

    • Rhys, I see that you prefer to believe comfortable lies:

      1) Anyone who has actually studied the issue has concluded that government provided health care is both more expensive and provides lower levels of care compared to private health care.

      2) Yes well built homes will use less energy. And everyone loves mom and apple pie.
      The question, and one that always trips up you socialists is how much do you pay for how much improvement. Like all socialists, you seem to believe that anything from government has no cost.

      Anyone who believes that we can rebuild every building in the country in just 10 years is a total moron.

      Constructive argument rather than insults

      No American wishing not to be called a psychopathic and pathological liar

      Not only are you a moron, you’re a hypocrite.

    • Well, now, Mr. Jaggar, I wonder how much you know about State health care in the United Kingdom. Not a lot, I suspect. I do. I worked as a surgeon in the NHS for 23 years and before that as a trainee, of course. Note that the UK system uses a slightly modified version of the single payer model, proposed under this speculative green deal. Now let me tell you how that model is working in Britain today. It is a rapidly failing and utterly inadequate service, highly bureaucratic and micromanaged by the British Government.

      There is no freedom of action for clinicians and patient choice is a carefully fostered myth. Primary care doctors are no longer on call at nights or weekends. Accident and Emergency Departments are in a disastrous state. Ambulance staff are tied up for hours with patients who are lying on trolleys in A & E department corridors.

      Primary care physicians may only prescribe from a restricted list of drugs approved by local bodies called Community Care Groups (I refer to them as Communist Care Groups.) These groups have no accountability except a financial duty to the Department of Health. They will not enter into correspondence with doctors or their patients.

      And now let me tell you of my experiences and those of my family and friends over the last year or so. My daughter developed acute appendicitis, correctly diagnosed by me. She spent over 5 hours in A & E, was initially told she couldn’t have appendicitis as her blood tests showed no evidence of infection (he was looking at another patient’s results), waited half a day for a CT scan, was cancelled for theatre twice and finally operated almost 48 hours after presentation.

      A friend who was our village pharmacist died of advanced lung cancer, the tumour having been missed on an incompetently reported CT scan two years prior to diagnosis. Another friend went into acute atrial fibrillation during a cardiac procedure, was transferred to the base hospital, sent to A & E “by mistake “ and spent five hours, as you guessed, waiting for attention. Another family member with a new breast lump was referred electronically to the breast clinic under the NHS two week rule. As she was about to set out for the clinic, she was telephoned, told that the referral had gone to the wrong clinic (the family history clinic), in the same building, that she could not be seen and that she must go back to her primary care doctor and start the whole process again. She was finally seen at six weeks. Fortunately, the lump was benign.

      Beside these events, my little problems (deprescription – a new word in NHS speak – of an effective medication, and more recently refusal of a liquid form of a drug from which I have to withdraw very slowly, and could have done with more accuracy of dose titration than by quartering tablets not designed to be broken) pale into insignificance.

      Don’t misunderstand me, my dear Mr. Jaggar. There are some European systems which are much superior to the British one. They are not, however, single payer systems of the kind chosen by Aneurin Bevan in 1948, worshipped in the UK as a sort of sacred cow (by people who seem seriously to believe that the poor could not access medical care in Britain prior to 1948) even as it dies slowly and painfully, and, you will notice, proposed by Ms Ocasio-Cortez. They are generally copayment systems in which doctors are independent contractors.

      However disgraceful you may think the US system (and, having briefly worked in it I am familiar with its weaknesses as well as its great strengths), the people of the USA would be insane to replace it with the current British system.

      • If you will allow me to ask. Where your alive in Britain in1947? I was and had been treated as a poor hospital patient before that
        It left me with a profound fear of hospitals and nurses.
        After 1947 we had dental care and free vaccinations for school children . My mother had the best treatment available in the 1950s at St Bartholomew’s hospital.

        However I find that medical practitioners prefer richer patients even now in New Zealand where we are supposed to have a health Service. The poor cannot visit dentists.and cannot afford glasses or hearing aids. but these are private providers. So I think the services degenerate with lack of government funding and the preference of doctors for private practice.

        • Thank you for your thoughtful comment. Of course you may ask, and the answer is that I was born in 1951. I was in hospital twice as a small boy and I too found the experience frightening. (It was soon after the second admission that I decided, at 8 years old, with no real knowledge of the matter, nor any family members in medicine or indeed graduates, that I wished to be a surgeon.) The problem with care of children in hospital was a feature of the era, not the system. It was resolved in the UK thanks to the efforts of a pioneering paediatrician at the Charing Cross, Dr. Hugh Jolley, who welcomed parents to the wards and encouraged others to do so.

          I was glad to learn of your mother’s good experience at St. Bartholomew’s Hospital in London, for I trained there. It was, of course, a foundation for the poor of the City, and before the NHS those with middle incomes and above were not welcome. The parallel situation at St. Thomas’s was described by Somerset Maugham in his semiautobiographical novel, Of Human Bondage, which repays reading for anyone who wants some idea of what was and was not available to poor patients in London and in the country 120 years ago.

          I am not familiar at all with the healthcare system in New Zealand. Patients in our NHS (with some exemptions such as children) pay to see a dentist and also the full cost of glasses. Those costs and prescription charges are why I refer to the NHS as a modified single payer system.

          Although I believe that countries (or states, or governments) have a duty to ensure that healthcare of an acceptable standard is available to all regardless of ability to pay, my experience of the single payer model has led me to conclude that it is unsatisfactory and creates a system in which governments say what doctors may or may not do (not its only fault but a critical one.). The question of private practice in a mixed system is very complex and its effects are probably dependent on its affordability for patients (if interested, have a look at and compare the systems of healthcare today in France and Thailand.). I am now so far from the original topic and indeed the broad subject of this site that I shall stop, pausing only to note that I hope my rare contributions here may indicate that thoughtful and courteous debate is both possible and desirable.

  64. Any energy policy proposal with Edward Markey’s name is not to be trusted. His famous tag line over the years in response to unintended energy policy mistakes has been “who could have known?” This one would be 100x times “who could have known.”

    Be very afraid.

  65. ‘We’re nuts!’ isn’t a great pitch for a Green New Deal

    The 10 Most Insane Requirements Of The Green New Deal

    Democrats Need an Ambitious Climate Plan. The Green New Deal Isn’t It.

    The Energy 202: No ‘unanimity’ on Green New Deal, says key House Democrat

    Despite Few Details And Much Doubt, The Green New Deal Generates Enthusiasm

    Ocasio-Cortez’s ‘Green New Deal’ sounds like a green nightmare: Rep. Gaetz

  66. This is the verbatim text at the start of the draft of the Green New Deal resolution being offered by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA):
    “Whereas the October 2018 report entitled ‘‘Special Report on Global Warming of 1.5oC’’ by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and the November 2018 Fourth National Climate Assessment report found that—
    (1) human activity is the dominant cause of observed climate change over the past century;
    (2) a changing climate is causing sea levels to rise and an increase in wildfires, severe storms, droughts, and other extreme weather events that threaten human life, healthy communities, and critical infrastructure; ”

    I stopped reading the document right then and there. Several hours previously, I had finished watching Tony Heller’s great video that thoroughly rebukes such statements, available at

    Mr. Heller has other videos addressing similar false claims related to “climate change” that are issued by those, like the IPCC, that have their own not-so-hidden agendas.

  67. All of this is just so idiotic!……… “the stupid it burns!”……..
    so…. how/why does it guarantee a “family sustainable living wage job” when it also guarantees everything one would ever need while not having a job… why would anyone work… this is the crux of why socialism always fails they run out of other peoples money and effort to steal and spread around.. of course all the while keeping a nice fat cut for themselves and their cronies/families etc… ….. I know it is about power but it still boggles my mind how so many stupid people there are that eat these lies and claptrap up……

    God help us!


  68. Perhaps, going forward, everybody should be swore-in before making any statements about Climate Change and the Green New Deal.

  69. Perhaps, while we are rebuilding every house, apartment, and factory in the country, we could make them all resistant to a 4MT thermonuclear device.

  70. You may make your climate indulgence payments payable to the DNC. We will let you know later if your amount was acceptable and if your virtue signaling was sufficient. Until then you cannot rest so keep the lobbying treats coming.

  71. per their press release: “The particular details arent worked out in the resolution…”

    Im not overly concerned until results of the 2020 election come in.

    • We’re from the government, we know what you want and need better than you do. So get out of the way or we will have you shot.

  72. This thing – the GND was DOA, a non-starter. Cortez is a former bartender who does know much about anything, her interviews prove that beyond any doubt. Furthermore, she stole the idea and its main points from an old Bernie Sanders’ dream. Only purpose of this fiasco was for Cortez to remain visible and appear radical and edgy. Media will soon move to another non-issue “crisis”../

  73. I have a workable plan on how to educate this socialist nut cases, but unfortunately I don’t think even the socialists are so stupid as to agree to it…

    Package up all socialists and have them live in Valenzuela for 5 years. Or Cuba. Or anywhere that is current run as a socialist paradise. Not the sorta-socialism in the EU and northern Europe, but the real socialism like in the old U.S.S.R. or China back in the 1960’s. Once there they can get a real education on how well it works and how better-off the common people are. And if they think it’s really better, they are free to STAY THERE.

    Can these people balance their own check book? Honestly how do these people graduate high school and not know any better than THIS? Has public education become THAT bad? If so, time to tear it down and start over.

  74. After reading the text of the resolution I was torn between laughing at what is a true socialist manifesto and weeping that so many seemingly believe the Orwellian style tenet that, “Models are reality.”

  75. How will I make money day trading oil and gas on the futures market? Will they give me the difference? Working for a living pays too little and doesn’t allow me to outperform everyone else financially without going though numerous social hoops.

  76. Implementing these very bad ideas will kill off hundreds of millions of people through starvation and anarchy. AOC will join a race to top Mao as the all time leading killer of humanity. Mao is followed closely by Margret Sanger who is rapidly gaining on him.

  77. I, for one, found James Taylor’s words the most convincing. Hey, after all, that guy has seen fire, and seen rain…

  78. Occasional Cortex and he ilk are doing everyone a favor. By opening the green progressive playbook to the later, more frightening chapters instead of the lighter falsehoods of the earlier plays, she exposes the true disaster these Soylent Greens are planning. But too early. Like the frog in the boiling water.

  79. Yeah, an economic mobilization to effectively demobolize and de-domicile everybody! To see what’s driving this madness, check out the YouTube video “A Marxist Trojan Horse” by DECLASSIFY.

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