GOOGLE and the ‘adjustment’ of inconvenient viewpoints, especially climate

Guest Opinion by Kip Hansen

 

google_kicks_minoritiesDisclaimer: The opinions expressed in this article are solely those of the author, Kip Hansen,  and do not reflect the opinions of WUWT or Anthony Watts, owner and editor of this blog.  This is an independent Opinion Piece.  It is published here by the kind forbearance of Anthony Watts and does not necessarily reflect Mr. Watts’ personal or professional viewpoints. Any errors are mine alone — Kip Hansen.

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Long Item Warning:  This piece is 3600 words long and is estimated to take the average reader 18 minutes to read (every minute worth your effort).  I urge you to set it aside and return to it when you really have the time to read it in its entirety.  This is an important issue for most readers here. — Kip Hansen

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An odd thing happened when I wrote two recent essays regarding changes that Google has made to its web indexing/search algorithm.  There were two different general opposition opinions expressed:  1) Google is doing nothing wrong, they have a near monopoly just because their product is better and people like it and 2) (lots of noise ending in) “….how dare you accuse Google of being bad!”

It’s a good thing that this site isn’t run by Google, because, if this were Google, those contrary voices would have had to be de-ranked, demoted, and sent to the very bottom of the comments list. After all, it is my opinion that they might be “mis-leading”, “low-quality opinions”, “offensive” (at least to me) or (according to my world-view) “false information”.

Of course, I haven’t really accused Google of anything — Google has publicly announced what it intended to do and has now done.

The change Google made is simply this:  as Ben Gomes, vice-president of engineering, Google Search, said in a blogpost in 2017: “We’ve adjusted our signals to help surface more authoritative pages and demote low-quality content … “

It is worthwhile to look at the larger statement made by Ben Gomes back in April 2017, as reported by The Guardian:

The Guardian piece is titled: “Google acts against fake news on search engine. Firm introduces user tools for reporting misleading content, and pledges to improve results generated by algorithm”          ….

“Ben Gomes, vice-president of engineering @ Google Search, said in a blogpost: “In a world where tens of thousands of pages are coming online every minute of every day, there are new ways that people try to game the system. The most high-profile of these issues is the phenomenon of ‘fake news’, where content on the web has contributed to the spread of blatantly misleading, low quality, offensive, or downright false information.”

Regarding the changes to its search algorithm, Gomes added: “We’ve adjusted our signals to help surface more authoritative pages and demote low-quality content … so that issues similar to the Holocaust denial results that we saw back in December [2016] are less likely to appear.”        ….

Google also promised to open up  how it would make such decisions in the future, although there remained criticism over its lack of transparency.

“As is often the case when Google announces changes, this couldn’t be more vague,” suggested Joost De Valk, a search engine expert at the consultancy firm Yoast.

“The changes come following months of pressure on Google over low-quality and offensive results in its search products, including autocomplete suggestions  which promote the idea that climate change is a hoax.”

–by Alex Hern, Technology Reporter for the Guardian

This sounds like a great idea — let’s get rid of search result links to “content on the web has contributed to the spread of blatantly misleading, low quality, offensive, or downright false information.”   A worthy goal.  Just about as worthy as a local citizens committee organized to rid the local public library of books that are “misleading, low quality, offensive, or [contain] downright false information.”

Out with Poe, Mark Twain and Darwin …  or maybe turn it around, out with any book (or www link) that questions Darwin. That’s the rub.  Evolution is a societal (and scientific) controversy  — who is to decide whether we chuck Darwin or chuck books critical of Darwin.  Most scientists would call for the de-ranking of websites that promote strict Genesis-based Young Earth animals-created-out-of-nothing Biblical viewpoints, but then again, if we’re chucking critical-of-Darwin books, do we have to throw out textbooks which clearly show that strict-Darwinism is a false idea — and has been replaced with a more correct ideas described in the Wiki in  History of evolutionary thought?  Or do we just chuck books we don’t like about Darwinian evolution?  And, who gets to be “we” in the previous sentence?

What about statistics?  Bayes or Frequentist?  Some in each camp of thought consider the other camp to be utter nonsense — but which one do we demote or de-rank as “misleading, low quality, offensive, or downright false information.”  Or do we make sure to include information equally from both sides?  Or favor one side a little?  A lot?  Or pretend that they could both be equally valid?  Or let the citizenry decide by giving equal access to all statistics texts or links based on popularity?

What about really sticky social/moral controversies?   Like the Right to Abortion or the Right of Fetuses to Life?   Which content should we mark up as “authoritative” and which content should we demote as “offensive or downright false”?  Activists on both sides of this issue consider the other side to not only be incorrect, but Wrong, Evil and worse.  Again, favor one?  The other?  Equal position in rank to both?  Pretend that the US Supreme Court is the authority on this moral issue so take the Right to Abortion as authoritative and demote and de-rank all Right to Life web sites?

How about the really hot topic of Gun Ownership/Gun Rights in America?  Fifty years ago, the NRA was the authority on the issue — today, public sentiment has shifted but the US Constitution has remain unchanged.

Over the last few years, I have written here at  WUWT a series on Scientific Controversies: Five major controversies in which one side seems to have an accepted consensus view but also has a vital and strong contrarian view that is solidly scientifically supported.  In at least one case, the Salt Wars, the consensus view, enshrined in the policy views of major government agencies and professional societies,  has been proven to be based on a view of human physiology that has been found to be incorrect — a fact that has not changed the policy stands of those organizations promoting the consensus’ policy preferences.   [see links a bit further on].

It is this situation with public policy positions in regards to scientific controversies that exacerbates the “taking sides” exhibited by Google in its assignment of value judgements on “what viewpoint is authoritative” and “what is unhelpful”.  A Google Search on “dietary salt” reveals the prevalence of the consensus view by Google-determined “authoritative” web sites.  I was able to find the Cochrane Review on salt, which is dated, but which revealed the weakness of the consensus view (as exemplified by the American Heart Association’s Sodium and Salt page.)  The New York Times stories on the issue are represented in search results by Jane Brody’s consensus view supporting piece “Clearing Up the Confusion About Salt” (which doesn’t, by the way, clear up the confusion) but not “Why Everything We Know About Salt May Be Wrong” by Gina Kolata in the same newspaper.  Kolata reports on Dr. Jens Titze’s meticulous research — links to which are in my essay “Modern Scientific Controversies Part 6: Follow Up” (and can be found in the Quick Links  at the end of this essay.)  Whether the changes in search results are intentional or not, or whether they are a fair sample, is not the point — the point is that someone has to adjust the algorithm according to some standard to bias the results (using bias in its native sense) to pick out and elevate “authoritative” pages and demote others to be considered unhelpful, low-quality, offensive, misleading or as containing false information.

The bottom line?  There are Social, Political, Moral, and Scientific Controversies in our modern society that are alive and well and being hammered out.  Some of them may come to conclusions as science advances and others, involving social and moral issues, may never resolve.  Some science issues will resolve, but then later be found to have been resolved incorrectly — as has the dietary salt issue.

On these types of societal controversies, when Google adjusts their “signals to help surface more authoritative pages and demote low-quality content” exactly what is their basis for deciding who (what organizations, what web sites,  representing which viewpoints)  is authoritative and who (what organizations, what web sites,  representing which viewpoints) are “blatantly misleading, low quality, offensive, or downright false information” or “unhelpful”?

Google has apparently marked websites with a top-level domain of .gov as authoritative.  Sounds good?  Sure, unless your views of this controversial subject are contrary to current government policies or you think the government is up to no good on some issue.  People searching your issue will find the government sites on the issue and your viewpoint will be buried.  How would you feel if you lived in a totalitarian nation  and find that a site humanrights.gov.tt (the government of Totaliaria) is  considered by Google to be authoritative?

So, we know that Google has done and is doing this.  We do not accuse them of this, they announce it to the world.

And what will be the real world effects of their intentional biasing of search algorithms?

I think we can all accept that Climate Change is a subject of some public and political controversy and most of the readers here believe that it is a scientific controversy as well.  There is a strong “consensus view” enshrined in  the UN agreements, agencies, and policies: all represented by the IPCC,  its reports and its recommendations.  There is a strong, but minority, scientific view that the IPCC reports are political and go far beyond the science.  This is represented in the United States in survey after survey in which the general public is found to be strongly divided on the issue.

Let’s look at an example close to home of how Google’s assignment of the label “authoritative” to some sources of information and de-ranking as “low-quality” (etc.) other sources affects  this website, Watts Up With That.

How popular with the citizens of the World Wide Web is WUWT?   Last check WUWT had an Alexa rating of Global Rank: 38,982 and a US Rank: 13,124  (these are unverified numbers — anyone with a current Alexa subscription is invited to supply today’s rankings — note:  lower numbers are better, Google.com is #1). To give you some idea of scale, there are 1,766,926,408 registered web domains — in words:  roughly one billion, seven hundred sixty seven million. Of these over 150 million are blogs.   Out of those 1.76 billion sites, and more than 150 million blogs, WUWT ranks 13,124 in the US and 38,982 in the world.  RealClimate.com, created by government employees on your time/your dime, reportedly rates Globally 18,850,016  (again, anyone with Alexa access is invited to update this number).  There is a report that “Climate.nasa.gov” ranks far better at Global Rank: 984 and US Rank: 442, but this is a distortion as we see in the following charts:

alexa_consensus_23July18

 

The Alexa stats are for the root domain NASA.GOV, as indicated by all the nasa.gov sub-domains sharing the exact same statistics, it is the National Aeronautics and Space Administration site that it so high on the list, not the Climate sub-domain. How does WUWT fare in its similar chart?

alexa_skeptics_23July18

The first thing you’ll notice is that Alexa has separated “Climate Change” and the social issue of “Climate Change Skepticism”, listing WUWT in a category of “Society/Issues/Environment/Opposing_Views/Climate_Change_Skeptics”.  Some might argue with that, but it would be a breath of fresh air if Google were to include on search pages for these types of controversial issues, on the first page of results, the top two or three “opposing views” under the top two or three “consensus views”.

Of course, in its own category, WUWT is #1 — by a huge margin.  Why such a big margin?

monthly_page_views_2016_201

All through 2016 (WUWT’s tenth year) and through the migration to the new server recently, WUWT had a monthly average of nearly 3 MILLION page views per month.  Compare this to the NBC touted “Two government websites on climate change [that] survive in the Trump era” — breathlessly reported to have collectively drawnmore than 68,000 page views in May [2018], a more than 50 percent increase from the year before”  —  almost 700 views per day.  Compare to WUWT long-term average of between 80,000 to 100,000 page views per day.

You might ask, if WUWT is already doing so well on the web, why would anyone be upset with the de-ranking/demoting of WUWT in Google Search results?

One, nobody likes to be publicly disrespected, not even me.  Minority voices, like WUWT, who feel they have something important to say want people interested in our issue to be able to find us, and object to someone in a position of public trust, like Google, interfering with, stifling, the ability of interested potential readers to easily locate us by subject search.

Now, let’s do the latest numbers from WordPress:

WUWT_Weekly_Page_Views

WUWT_Search_Referrals

Google’s de-ranking efforts, since early June 2018, have resulted in a greater than 30% drop in search engine referrals — about 12,000 views/visitors lost per week. These particular lost referrals mean that new readers don’t arrive at the home page and don’t subsequently click through to one or more posts. Loss of “first-time” readers means a loss of the portion of those that would become regular readers.  Lost page views (and some of them lost new visitors) equates to lost ad revenue for WUWT — as revenue erodes, the ability of Anthony Watts to keep WUWT on the web decreases.

How do you suppress alternate points of view? Look to the history of newspaper wars in America’s major cities over the last century.   Think of the yellow journalism days, battles for dominance between Joseph Pulitzer and William Randolph Hearst. Simple, you curtail their access to markets, you dissuade their advertisers, you attack their income streams, you limit their distribution.  Google’s de-ranking of WUWT, the world’s #1 Climate Skeptic website, does all three of these.  Possibly intentionally, possibly unintentionally.  Regardless, it does it — makes it harder to keep the WUWT point-of-view on the web.

Is this intentional?  In my opinion, it is probably not a specific attack on WUWT , though this is as yet unknown — (if there are any skeptic sympathizers in Google’s inner circle who can ferret out this information, email me — see the Author’s Note for address, anonymity guaranteed.)  On the other hand, it is certainly intentional to advance the consensus view by upgrading sites to be labeled “authoritative” to be those with .gov  top-level domain, such as nasa.gov,  noaa.gov, and thus all their subdomains, like climate.nasa.gov. In the United Kingdom, the top-level domain for governmental sites is .gov.uk, thus metoffice.gov.uk/climate-guide    There are dangers to democracy inherent in automatically labeling all governmental websites as “authoritative” — the list in my lifetime alone of instances of malfeasance by national government agencies is long and black.

There may have been efforts to specifically de-rank sites that are “skeptical of climate science” from some consensus talking points list — this is unknown and would be pure speculation at this point.  But, it would have been a simple thing for Googlers to look up the Alexa rankings under “Society/ Issues/ Environment/ Opposing_Views/ Climate Change Skeptics” and say:  “Ah, here’s where we start de-ranking, after all, climate change skeptics are, by our way of thinking,  unreliable, misleading, unhelpful…and their information must be  false, because it doesn’t agree with us”.

Do we know that Google for sure actually did this on this particular topic?  No, but Google has not been transparent about their actions — they have only announced their broad intentions and we can see the effect on Google search results.  We do know that Google has publically stated that they will de-rank and demote sites that are in their opinion, and in their own words:  low-quality content, misleading content, offensive, or downright false.  In our field, we know Google’s opinion is that this means climate skeptic sites.  [see the Ben Gomes statement linked in paragraph 2, climate skepticism was used as an example.]

What to do?

This is a difficult question but  can be represented as the Yellow Pages problem from days of yore.  If you had a new business, you struggled to stay alive through the first year until the new Yellow Pages came out and listed your business under as many categories for which  you could afford to pay, with as big as possible an ad on your main category page, hopefully near the top of the list, which was alphabetical.  (Thus there were a lot of businesses like “AAA Locks and Security”.)  If I recall correctly, you could pay extra for ad placement on the appropriate page.

Now, with the Internet taking the role of the Yellow Pages for most localities, one must rank high in search results.  This has spawned a whole industry of  Search Engine Optimization or SEO where professional help is offered to improve your website’s placement in (mainly) Google search results.

The professional practice of SEO has always been considered by Google to be “gaming the system” and Google has spent a great deal of time and effort to fight and prevent such gaming.  But now, it seems, Google  itself is doing the “gaming of the system” — this is not an accusation, this is Google’s announced solution to “fake news” and “low-quality and offensive results in its search products”.

The story of the years-long fight of Shivaun and Adam Raff   against the enterprise that is Google today should stand as a practical lesson to us.   Taking Google  on is not a job for the timid — it may be a job only a national government or one of its powerful agencies can successfully undertake.

However, Google is incredibly sensitive to Public Shaming especially when that comes from the sector of society that is their political base — liberal intense-users of the Internet and associated technologies.  Google  changes policies only after concerted embarrassment in public view — Twitter swarms, bad press, being publicly called out on issues.

While they are not going to change any policies that are to their own economic advantage, they well may re-adjust their  search algorithms to a less-biased state if enough fuss is raised on the issues of Free Flow of Information and Freedom of Ideas.

Here are some thoughts on what we can do:

  1. In your social media spaces, call attention to Google’s giving preference to government sources and de-ranking sites and blogs that criticize or call for reforms — basically demoting the voice of the people in favor of the voice of the government.
  2. Do the same pointing out Google’s biasing search results so that the Big Guys that hold Mainstream Views come out on top — and important minority views are buried under the dross. All this instead of letting the Internet decide through popularity-based rankings.
  3. Use any search engine other than Google and encourage your families, friends, neighbor, businesses to switch default search engines to something else — anything else. Chiefio has an excellent essay about how even DuckDuckGo is biased (because it uses Google’s database) and offers an alternative https://www.mojeek.com/

[Don’t think Google biases search?  Try this “How do I change the default search engine in my browser?”  in a Google search.  For me, the whole first screen-full of links tell you how to switch to Google.]

  1. If you have a blog and wish to join a BoycottGoogleSearch movement, where any attempt to refer to your site from a Google domain returns a re-direct to a BoycottGoogleSearch page (which explains why we boycott Google) please contact me directly at my first name at the domain i4 decimal net. If there is enough support, I will set up the infra-structure and supply code to put on your pages.
  2. Your suggestions are welcome in comments. However, if your comment is simply how useless fighting Google is, how quixotic, how you think it is “wrong”, how stupid, how self-destructive, or whatever non-constructive idea comes to your head — please be aware that  I already know these things.  I am perfectly willing to stipulate all of that, there is no need to argue them in comments, it will not add anything to the conversation.
  3. Whenever possible, share WUWT stories with links on Facebook and Twitter, it helps spread the word.
  4. If “tilting against the Google windmill” is not to your taste, throw a hundred bucks into the WUWT Tip Jar and you will have done your part with much less fuss and mess. As Google’s actions will rob WUWT of much needed financial support (advertising dollars). The world will be a better place for it and you will have my [Kip Hansen’s] personal thanks (with that and an extra five bucks you can get a cup of coffee.) Thank you.

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Author’s Comment Policy:

Regular readers know I try very hard to answer their questions and field their concerns about my work here at WUWT.  As this topic is intensely controversial, I will be glad to respond to polite, constructive comments as best I can.  Feel free to leave your contrary views if you must but I will not be responding to them — it would simply waste my time and yours.

Those interested in the BoycottGoogleSearch effort can email me at my first name at the domain i4.net.

Thank you for reading.

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Quick Links:

estimated time to read

Ben Gomes said in a blogpost in 2017

Google acts against fake news on search engine.

Alex Hern

History of evolutionary thought

WUWT a series on Scientific Controversies

The Salt Wars

Cochrane Review on salt

American Heart Association’s Sodium and Salt page

Clearing Up the Confusion About Salt

Why Everything We Know About Salt May Be Wrong

Modern Scientific Controversies Part 6: Follow Up

Watts Up With That

RealClimate.com

Climate.nasa.gov

Two government websites on climate change [that] survive in the Trump era

history of newspaper wars in America’s major cities over the last century

Joseph Pulitzer

William Randolph Hearst

climate.nasa.gov

metoffice.gov.uk/climate-guide

Search Engine Optimization

SEO

gaming the system

Goggle’s effort to fight and prevent such gaming

Google’s announced solution to “fake news” and “low-quality and offensive results in its search products”

Shivaun and Adam Raff

throw $100 into the Tip Jar

switch default search engines to something else

“How do I change the default search engine in my browser?”

throw a hundred bucks into the WUWT Tip Jar

High salt intake – Titze    pdf here

Increased salt consumption – Titze  pdf  here

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Marcus
July 29, 2018 4:41 am

“The Guardian piece is titled: “Google acts against fake news on search engine”

So who gets to decide what is “FAKE NEWS” ? President Trump or Hildabeast ?

OOh, she lost..AGAIN…. ooops !

July 29, 2018 4:55 am

Searching for prominent skeptical climate scientists is also instructive.

https://www.therightinsight.org/Not-so-subtle-Influences-Search-Engine-Bias

John Garrett
July 29, 2018 5:04 am

Google IS evil.

Roger Knights
Reply to  John Garrett
July 29, 2018 12:08 pm

“Google IS evil.”

That was its slogan (“Don’t be evil”), which alluded to the denigrating epithet applied to Microsoft as “the evil empire.” But now Google has become The Oval Umpire—where “oval” means out-of-alignment, or biased. (A bit of a stretch, I admit.)

commieBob
July 29, 2018 5:15 am

Interesting thing:

I searched most viewed climate skeptic website on both Google and DuckDuckGo. WUWT is the first hit in both cases.

The banner at the top of WUWT states:

The world’s most viewed site on global warming and climate change

I tried most visited climate skeptic website and WUWT dropped to number three. The other pages around it changed so DDG wasn’t simply parroting Google.

I tried searching for surface stations. surfacestations.org was the first hit for both search engines. Google had several WUWT stories near the top of the results page. DDG did not.

The other thing to note is that I don’t have an “I” problem. Google and DDG both return hits to me based on my location. They may even return hits based on who they think I am based on my IP address. It would be interesting to see if others get the same results I did.

Bro. Steve
July 29, 2018 5:41 am

Here’s wishing for a competitor for Google that really is as good as Google.

Roger Knights
Reply to  Bro. Steve
July 29, 2018 12:11 pm

Bing is trying, but it is far behind and it is a very hard technical task.

Leo
July 29, 2018 5:54 am

My suggestion is to launch a class action against GOOG. Google search service is not the First Amendment speech:

“To determine whether an actor’s conduct possesses “sufficient communicative elements to bring the First Amendment into play,” the Supreme Court has asked whether “[a]n intent to convey a particularized message was present and [whether] the likelihood was great that the message would be understood by those who viewed it.” Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397, 404 (1989)

Google provides search service, and says that it attempts to give the most useful and helpful results for each user. Users pay for this services by allowing Google to access their computers (cookies) and providing their private information. Services must be provided in good faith and advertised truthfully. Google is in breach of both requirements, and probably many other clauses of the Universal Commercial Code.

I see a huge class action lawsuit with hundreds of millions of victims and potential recovery in hundreds of billions dollars. Where are class action lawyers when they are needed?

Gerald Franke
Reply to  Leo
July 29, 2018 7:35 am

Leo – Don’t you mean “Uniform Commercial Code”?

Leo
Reply to  Gerald Franke
July 29, 2018 2:42 pm

Yes.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
July 29, 2018 2:35 pm

In fact there was an FTC investigation of antitrust issues with Google, ending 2013. They didn’t find anything actionable.

Leo
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 29, 2018 2:44 pm

They did, but Google was so close to Obama administration that it didn’t follow recommendations of the investigation.

MarkW
Reply to  Leo
July 29, 2018 3:23 pm

Sounds a lot like the FBI’s investigation into Hillary’s illegal e-mail server.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 30, 2018 7:48 am

Stokes, what would one suspect? The FTC used google in their investigation search….

kramer
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 30, 2018 10:31 am

Nick Stokes said: “In fact there was an FTC investigation of antitrust issues with Google, ending 2013. They didn’t find anything actionable.

Given that Google had extremely close ties to the white house during the Obama reign, I’m not surprised “anything actionable” was found. Its how politics works.

“Google representatives attended White House meetings more than once a week, on average, from the beginning of Obama’s presidency through October 2015.”
https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-close-relationship-with-the-obama-white-house-in-two-charts/

dmacleo
July 29, 2018 5:54 am

I think one of the “drivers” here is the EU right to be forgotten rules. while google pretended to oppose it its funny how they had algorithms in place very fast to comply with this.
the same algorithms can easily, iirc, be used to change the weight of posted articles and search results.

JohnWho
July 29, 2018 6:13 am

Google’s stated mission:

“Organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful.”

If they do not attempt to remove any bias from their search and presentation algorithms,

then their results are not “universally useful”.

Reply to  JohnWho
July 29, 2018 9:53 am

I heard a TED talk that said “all the world’s” info. That’s sure ambitious. They are going to be Gödel’d sooner than they think. The more they collect the further from reality they will be.

And the movie “Ex Machina” – anybody see it? The android had google’s database, mobile, and spontaneously, unknowably how, intelligent. Google refuses to admit Gödel’s devastating blow to Bertrand Russell’s logic program that Hilbert proposed. There must be a desperate irrational Rumpelstiltskin somewhere there.

pochas94
July 29, 2018 6:21 am

If you ask Google to make value judgments, expect the wrong answer. Otherwise, it’s excellent.

MarkW
Reply to  pochas94
July 29, 2018 3:24 pm

We aren’t asking them to make value judgments. The problem is that they insist on doing so anyway.

July 29, 2018 6:22 am

yes, this is what I expected a long time ago. George Orwell’s 1984 is here.
What other search engines than Google can we use? Can you recommend a good one?

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  henryp
July 29, 2018 12:37 pm

On my other computer(which is also using WIN10) I cant use Google Chrome as a browser. I had 3 different techs at Trend Micro spend 10 hours trying to fix it and they all failed including deinstalling it and reinstalling it 2 times. They finally gave up and told me to complain to Google. Funny enough Chrome will work in safe mode and in administrator mode. So I use Firefox and other browsers on that computer but if you return a web page in Firefox and try to move it to your desktop instead of simply marking it as a bookmarked webpage, the Google search engine takes over and will create the desktop icon for that page but of course now that it is a saved website using Google Chrome, if you click on it it wont work because it is using Google Chrome to try to go to that site. The only things I can conclude from this is
1) My Google Chrome is permanently screwed up on that computer
2) Google has some financial tie in with Firefox that uses a Chrome toolbar feature.

john
July 29, 2018 6:23 am

OT but…

News from the synaptically challenged, Rube Goldberg energy guru’s in California (La).

In fact, a Rube Goldberg would be better as this will not work and be a loss during peak times. Windless heat waves etc…

https://www.sfgate.com/business/amp/3-billion-plan-would-turn-Hoover-Dam-into-giant-13112087.php

…Do these idiots know how much power is needed to pump 10’s of thousands of acre feet of water 800 (approx height of Hoover dam) or more feet uphill? Add that height to how far downstream (elevation drop) the intake pipes are and then the added losses produced by pipe length and bends?

Send these geniuses off to the rubber room!

john
Reply to  john
July 29, 2018 6:58 am

Folks downstream are going to be a bit upset with this really bad idea.

HenryP
Reply to  john
July 29, 2018 7:35 am

I think in general it is a good idea to use mills and solar to pump water to a higher level reservoir and get hydro power when needed. Whether it will work here I cannot say. Do people downstream need that water?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  HenryP
July 29, 2018 10:09 am

HenryP,
You asked, “Do people downstream need that water?” Very much so! There are legal agreements on how much water Arizona and California can use. The water is so completely spoken for in the US that only a small brackish trickle makes it to Mexico and into the Gulf of California. The Mexicans aren’t happy about that. These plans for pumping will exacerbate what is already a bad situation.

HenryP
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
July 29, 2018 12:29 pm

Ok . Bad idea for this location, then.

MarkW
Reply to  HenryP
July 29, 2018 3:28 pm

It’s a good idea to use excess power to pump water uphill to later use for hydro power.
The problem is that there is already sufficient excess power. Relying on un-reliable wind and solar to pump that water uphill is just an exercise in futility.

RACookPE1978
Editor
Reply to  john
July 29, 2018 9:14 am

john

…Do these idiots know how much power is needed to pump 10’s of thousands of acre feet of water 800 (approx height of Hoover dam) or more feet uphill? Add that height to how far downstream (elevation drop) the intake pipes are and then the added losses produced by pipe length and bends?

It’s even worse than that.

The water to be pumped back “uphill” must be sucked from huge collection pipes on the downhill side of the dam, right?
So, the water must flow UPHILL from the lower parts of the river (because, during the night, the water that was originally released from the dam the first time has to continue flowing downstream.) There is no “lake” “downhill” of the Hoover Dam – that water flows unrestricted to the lower Colorado then open sea behind the Baja peninsula.
So, how are these politicians going to get water to flow back uphill to the inlet of the suction pipes to be recycled through the generator turbines?

Now, upper lakes on the Colorado DO have “lakes” below their outlet pipes. Glenn Canyon, fore xample, discharges to the Colorado River, which then flow downhill several hundred more feet to the “top” of lake Meade behind the Hoover Dam.
So, you could, theoretically in a classroom, dig many huge excavations in the water behind the Hoover Dam at some elevation, build a series of huge pumps in those excavations to pump that water uphill several hundred river miles to the base of the Glenn Canyon Dam, change all of the pipes and turbines and generators in the Glenn Canyon Dam to be (the less efficient) reversible pump-turbines turbo-generator-motors, pump the original water in Lake Meade uphill to Glenn Canyon, pump it again uphill back across the Glenn Canyon dam, then re-run the water through the new Glenn Canyon turbo-pumps.

Try getting those changes through today’s enviro’s. Send money.

Reg Nelson
Reply to  RACookPE1978
July 29, 2018 10:06 am

The Colorado river doesn’t make it to the ocean anymore. It ends several miles inland.

Reply to  john
July 29, 2018 9:43 am

A pumped storage systems is the only practical super-battery. During off-peak times when grid electricity demand is low, water is pumped from a reservoir downstream of a hydro dam to the upstream reservoir, such that it can be used again to generate power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

This is established technology, but it is rare to have a suitable site. For example, there are ZERO such sites in the Province of Alberta an area of 662,000 km2 – bigger than all of France, or [Germany + Italy] combined. {What WERE you idiots thinking when you started WW2?}

The problem is that most hydro dams only have a river downstream, and if you started pumping water from that river up-and-over-the-dam you would drain the river in minutes. You need a sizable lake downstream of the dam for pumped storage to be practical.

There IS a large lake downstream from Hoover Dam, called Lake Mohave, created by the Davis Dam. However, the pumping distance from Lake Mohave back to Hoover Dam is about 61km (38 miles). Costs and hydraulic losses would be huge. Sounds expensive and impractical at first glance.

Not Gonna Do It…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QHHGHve_N0

References:

Hoover Dam and Lake Mead
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Hoover+Dam/@36.0141351,-114.7425482,15z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x80c95286ddd43a6f:0xb514b9cb7a1cb0ca!2sLake+Mead!3b1!8m2!3d36.1435231!4d-114.4144415!3m4!1s0x80c92b497f82a14b:0x89d59d0bd29de37!8m2!3d36.0160642!4d-114.7377321

Davis Dam and Lake Mohave
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Davis+Dam,+AZ+86429,+USA/@35.1986411,-114.5765627,15z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x80c95286ddd43a6f:0xb514b9cb7a1cb0ca!2sLake+Mead!3b1!8m2!3d36.1435231!4d-114.4144415!3m4!1s0x80ce42e35bad9cab:0x7e5116affb3b58c7!8m2!3d35.1986232!4d-114.5678088

The distance between the two dams is ~94km (~58 miles).

The distance from the north end of Lake Mohave to the Hoover Dam is ~61 km (~38 miles).
__________________________________________________

HenryP
Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
July 29, 2018 12:33 pm

Fair comment.

Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
July 30, 2018 7:58 am

Allan, good info. One possibility would be to raise the Mohave dam to raise the level of Lake Mohave (to back it up to the Hoover dam discharge), but from your distances involved, that wouldn’t be plausible. Another, closer dam would actually be needed.

Reply to  beng135
July 30, 2018 9:53 pm

Hi beng.

Shorelines are now well-established and raising the water level would cause enormous disruption.

“Not Gonna Do It… wouldn’t be prudent at this juncture.”

spalding craft
Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
July 30, 2018 8:54 am

Pump storage is a proven technology that has worked effectively on a smaller scale to provide a jolt of power when needed. There’s an installation in the South Carolina mountains above Lake Keowee. There are a few world-wide but they are pretty low-impact (environmentally) in nature.

The Hoover Dam idea bases its appeal on the green idea of a self-contained renewable power system. This is a California Idea, and one where cost analysis should determine whether its feasible. California politicians, along with a supporting population, seem to embrace such ideas regardless of costs.

I would think a large-scale, expensive project like this, with many environmental and human considerations, will be most difficult to pull off.

Rich Davis
July 29, 2018 7:02 am

The best thing to be done to combat bias is to encourage the use of competitive search engines that likewise have a known bias. Let them compete in the marketplace of ideas. Just as there are aggregator sites for news from varying perspectives (realclearpolitics.com for example), there could be sites that intentionally contrast the top results of different search engines with opposing biases.

Let’s be fair. Google has done immense good for the world up to now. It is now practical to learn the basics of almost any topic in a few minutes on a whim without traveling to a library or corresponding with an expert or paying any price beyond the modest use of time. And then we can use Google Translate to translate the information into a language that we don’t speak and communicate with someone on the other side of the world who we will never meet using Gmail. We can even make a virtual tour of many parts of the world using Google Maps Street View.

Any large and powerful organization is a target to be taken over by nefarious forces. Up to this point at least, nobody is obligated to use Google/Alphabet products, nor are we blocked from using competitors. If Google applies too heavy a hand, they will harm their brand and spawn competitors who satisfy customer demands. It is worthwhile also to try to engage with Google to get them to consider making changes to their products to give users more choices. Why not allow users to check the results of different algorithms? It’s not obvious to me that Google is sacrificing profitability to serve ideological ends. More likely they are reacting to political threats to their profitability by accommodating elite demands. No doubt they are sympathetic to the politics though.

Roger Knights
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 29, 2018 12:20 pm

” If Google applies too heavy a hand, they will harm their brand and spawn competitors who satisfy customer demands.”

Or Google might somehow “tone down” its favoritism. Or Bing could do so. Google has now given it an opportunity to make a big gain in market share, if it advertises / positions itself as the freer alternative search engine. (Probably bigshots at MSFT are considering doing this.) But it would be brave of Bing to tweak the noses of the politically correct and powerful here and abroad.

Ragnaar
July 29, 2018 7:16 am

“But what Google is doing here is to anticipate, as best it can, what searchers are looking for.” – Nick Stokes

So two different answers are that Google is attempting to shape society or make money. And a third answer is they are doing both. My vote is they are trying to make money. Once you do that, you can shape society. And when your emphasis is shaping society, you often fail and spend a lot of time looking for money to support your efforts.

I’ve defended Google not from Hansen but from commentators. I’ve also defended Apple, Microsoft, ExxonMobil, Utilities from renewables, and Capitalism.

Google like fossil fuels have led us. Led us to an improved world of more. If some are left by the side of the road, make a better product that sells itself as Google search does. To have problems with Google, can be considered consistent with having problems with other companies that also dominate their sector.

Here’s what Google does, using decades old marketing theory. Targets the middle of the bell curve. The best that can be done is niche resistance. They will be penalized for targeting the tails of the distribution. So, the right balance of moving to the people, or moving the people to you, needs to be struck. If Google moves from the people, that is their gift to you, if you see it.

If you want to help WUWT, get a Facebook account. Throw in some links to WUWT articles without going overboard.

MBeaty
July 29, 2018 7:16 am

A google search for “watts up with that” will return the proper site as the top result, but has some anomalies. The google box on the side of the search results contains a link to the site as well as some info pulled from Wikipedia. It also contains a thumbnail from the site. In the case of the “watts up with that” search the thumbnail is actually for “wotts up with that” and links to that site instead.

Scott
July 29, 2018 7:18 am

Ironic that the antiestablishment radicals of the 70’s have become the pearl clutching neo-puritans of the current age.

hunter
Reply to  Scott
July 29, 2018 10:52 am

Not really surprising, actually.
The super rich monopolists and oligarchs depend on reactionary positions to defend their positions.
And wealthy people in general frequently confuse their networth with their IQ.

n.n
July 29, 2018 7:20 am

Google’s search algorithm is biased to favor conforming sources.

Jim
July 29, 2018 7:22 am

Google simply wants to eliminate opposing views.

July 29, 2018 7:29 am

Even liberal cartoonist Gerry Trudeau has taken a swipe against Google here , with Z + Z bud company looking for a motto and adopting “Don’t be Google”.

(For some reason, that link fails to load directly, but I can get to it indirectly through here ).

(I found this using “Bing”) — better the evil empire you know that one you don’t.

Nigel Sherratt
Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
July 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Thanks, was about to remind people of that brilliant piece of satire myself. ‘Sounds ethical, but doesn’t overpromise!’

Rud Istvan
July 29, 2018 7:39 am

Nice essay, Kip. Very topical because of the also recently exposed twitter onservative shadow banning.
You posted some thoughts on what to do. A couple more, One is nothing other than alerting to topical bias awareness, sort of the wikipedia solution. Another is to start reading google results at page say 3 and work back. I do that a lot on scientific searches because am deliberately not looking for the ‘accepted’, rather the ‘odd’ under Kuhn’s paradigms model. The accumukation of odd eventually overturns themold paradigm in favor of a new one. Thatnismhow I reconceptualized Helmlotz double layer capacitance on activated carbon.
This stuff is sufficiently new that it will take a while to sort out. Interesting that Trump and climate skepticism has so clearly exposed the progressive bias problem in Silicon Valley. So bad Peter Thiel moved to LA.

July 29, 2018 7:45 am

In a free market, where economics underpins choice (people vote with their wallets), why has an alternative to Google not arisen? If “the people” don’t agree with censorship by Google, why can’t they go to a competitor?

We have an apparent paradox.

hunter
Reply to  Doug Proctor
July 29, 2018 10:49 am

Oligolpolistic organizations work hard to suppress innovation and competition.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Doug Proctor
July 29, 2018 11:25 am

DP, in most markets there are diminishing marginal returns. In some (think Betamax v. VHS) there are increasing marginal returns. Google was/is such a case. So the alternatives, even if well funded like Microsoft’s Bing, don’t gain traction.

Roger Knights
Reply to  Doug Proctor
July 29, 2018 12:28 pm

“In a free market, where economics underpins choice (people vote with their wallets), why has an alternative to Google not arisen?”

It has, in the form of Bing, but Google has patents, and an immense lead in a hard and multi-pronged technical problem. I.e., there are thousands of little tweaks Google has made to polish its performance that add up to a clearly superior experience. Maybe Bing will close the gap in five years.

Reg Nelson
Reply to  Doug Proctor
July 29, 2018 1:26 pm

The people with the wallets are the advertisers, not consumers, like you and I. Google doesn’t make money off of organic search results. It makes money from selling advertisements for keyword searches. Google and YouTube (which it owns) dominate search, and therefore dominate online search ad revenue.

Google doesn’t care about the ranking of the term “Climate change” or “Climate science fraud”. It doesn’t make any money from them. So it can rank non-paid search however it likes, without it affecting their bottom line.

Clyde Spencer
July 29, 2018 8:08 am
Toto
July 29, 2018 8:14 am

If ideas were people … we have a vocabulary for this: discrimination, prejudice, ethnic cleansing, genocide, racism, and so on, not to mention burning the heretics and the inquisition. Insert Monty Python quote of your choice here.

July 29, 2018 8:21 am

In the long run Google is hemorrhaging slowly from a large hole in thier collective foot which they carelessly created by discharging a rhetorical firearm in the downward direction. They wanted to be seen as cool, creative, “not evil”, but now it is clear to all they just pretended. What they really wanted was to be rich and nothing else mattered. When George Orwell wrote 1984 it was a warning about what happens when members of society don’t fight for their rights. Google mistook it for a blueprint to power and money.

RicDre
Reply to  Andy PAttullo
July 29, 2018 4:23 pm

“They wanted to be seen as cool, creative, ‘not evil'”.

They’ve retracted the “Don’t be evil” motto so I guess that means being evil is now an acceptable practice at Google.

spalding craft
Reply to  Andy PAttullo
July 30, 2018 11:25 am

What hole in foot has Google inflicted?

In my view Google’s sin is to exercise all the various market-dominating tools available to them under capitalism, and then, after they’ve achieved a dominant position, to promote a bunch of progressive causes which celebrate values other than those that made them rich.

It’s like the Bill Gates/Warren Buffett syndrome. Huge wealth begets great power, and also, it would seem, great guilt. Capitalism celebrates and rewards hunger for power and wealth, things that most of us are ambivalent about.

Chris
Reply to  Andy PAttullo
July 31, 2018 12:18 am

Their stock is near its all time high. Their market cap is $900B. I see no signs of hemorrhaging.

paul courtney
Reply to  Chris
July 31, 2018 9:43 am

Chris: You said it was $1T on July 29. Another week of $100B losses in 48hrs and the Kochs will be able to afford it. And you’ll have to answer the question, will you complain if the shoe moves to the other foot?

hunter
July 29, 2018 8:40 am

Google is simply acting as a proxy censorship enforcer for the consensus state. Google and thevrest of the reactionary oligarchy are doing this bit of dishonesty at the explicit cost of providing value to their shsreholders and the compant and its officers shoukd be investigated by the SEC and sued by shareholders.
Their suppression of searchrs and sikencing of honest discussions will ultimately backfire if it is not halted.

Gordon Pratt
July 29, 2018 8:42 am

From the boiler plate at the top I thought the author might say Google de-ranked sites which questioned the Hol****st, and I don’t mean HolyGhost.

Some global warming sceptics believe they can demand fairness for their views while still bowing to the number one sacred cow of our rulers. I won’t work.

Power comes from language. Google obtained preeminence in their field because they paid for product placements in other media. On a certain day talk show hosts everywhere stopped saying “search it on the net” and instead said “Google it.”

Reverse the process. Don’t say Google it. Say H*tl*r it.

MarkW
Reply to  Gordon Pratt
July 29, 2018 3:35 pm

Thermos company lost their rights to protect their brand name because they failed to protect it.
Thermos had become a generic name for a vacuum insulated container of liquid.

Seems to me, that by allowing everyone and their brother to say “Google it” instead of “search it on the net”, Google has entered into the same territory.

Chris
Reply to  Gordon Pratt
July 29, 2018 11:44 pm

“Google obtained preeminence in their field because they paid for product placements in other media. On a certain day talk show hosts everywhere stopped saying “search it on the net” and instead said “Google it.””

Do you have proof that Google paid for product placement on those shows?