Guest essay by Leo Smith
Introduction
I decided to pen this, not because I am a ‘philosopher of climate change’ like the esteemed Rupert Read, whose self styled ‘philosophy of climate change’ is really a thinly disguised justification for Green politics, but because it appears to me that very very few people in the climate change business, actually understand why they need to understand a little philosophy to enable them to judge the climate change phenomenon – the social phenomenon that is – in a suitable context.
I am not a trained philosopher. I am an engineer, by training, but that was just a job. I have always retained a curiosity about other things, and part of that curiosity led me to try and understand the issues of philosophy as a part of something else I was engaged in, which has no bearing here.
I was moved to write this, because a short post as an obituary to one of the greatest philosophers of science ever – Hilary Putnam – received essentially no comment at all. I realised that not only did no one actually know who he was, but no one even recognised the importance of what he did.
What the philosophy of science does, and its part of what I want to introduce today, is to define what science is, and particularly what it is not, and to clearly delineate its limits. Since Climate Change is variously described here in disparaging terms as ‘Climate Sceance’, and ‘Scientastic methodology’ , It’s clear that many people have a gut feeling that Climate science is not ‘proper’ science. Also, a few years ago I was also involved in some online arguments with Creationists who declared that Creationism and Intelligent Design was equally valid a science as say Physics.
Finally, this gem caught my eye from Judith Curry’s site:
“In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is true: it is true because it is powerful.”
Lucas Bergkamp
All these examples show us that there is a problem: We feel that Science is being usurped by imposters, who are almost perpetrating a modern form of black magic with its tenets, and yet we can’t actually say why they are wrong…without which we can’t refute their arguments…and this is made worse by the conclusions of modern philosophers that actually, we don’t know and can’t know what is really real, because what we deal with is ‘Reality as a Social Construct’. This is taught to every good PPE. And a brief diversion into metaphysics is necessary at this point – a horribly crude one, but the attempt must be made – to outline what this actually means, and why it’s sort of true, but not the whole truth…
Reality as a Social Construct
I am going to assume everyone has seen the film The Matrix, about which I will say nothing beyond noting that it highlights a very real problem that has been at the basis of Metaphysical ponderings for millennia. Namely, how can we be sure that our perception and experience of the world, shows us what it really is, rather than some abstract model of it?
Or in fact, to go even further in the direction of what is called in Philosophy, Idealism. Throughout its history, Philosophy has veered from one extreme to the other, at times claiming that the material world, was merely a manifestation of Spirit, or Mind (Idealism), and at other times, claiming the exact opposite , that spirit and mind were merely what you get with physical beings as a property of what they are (Realism, especially Material Realism). If you like, Idealism said ‘what you see is what you (or God) create as a sort of illusion’ and the Realists said ‘what you see is what is really there, no need for all this god/spirit/consciousness rubbish. THAT is all an illusion…’. And no one could in fact decide which was which until the rise of Newtonian physics rather made it look like the Realists were onto something, and that by careful analysis of the material world, as it appeared to be, we could predict the future, in small but important ways.
And then Kant first, and then Schopenhauer put the spanner in the works by pointing out that the world, as it appeared to be, had to be at least partially a human construction. Now, two things are worth pointing out about that last sentence, and the first is that Kant and Schopenhauer and indeed their intellectual descendants were safely ignored by science, for the next 150 years or so, but their descendants were not ignored by more ‘social’ scientists. And the second is that all important qualifier – at least partially. Both Kant and Schopenhauer introduced the concept of (in Kant’s case) ‘Things in themselves’ – that is, what was ‘actually there’ beyond our mere perception of it, whilst Schopenhauer corrected that to ‘thing in itself’ claiming correctly that number and quantity were in fact part of the human construction, so we couldn’t say whether Reality consisted of one or many things!
Which is why today you will find social scientists glibly talking about reality as a social construct as if that were all it were, and scientists talking about reality being very nearly exactly what it seems to be, as if quantum physics had never been invented.
I personally grappled with these issues and came to a certain conclusion, and so I think did Hilary Putnam, before I even knew he existed, because neither model worked very well to describe the way science worked, especially quantum physics. And our resolution of the problem, expressed in as simple terms as it is possible to do, is basically this:
“We cannot know (lacking a Red Pill) whether we are in a Matrix, or not, and whether that Matrix is our own construction, someone else’s, or an aspect of what the world really is. So we cannot assume that our experience is ‘what is really there’ but on the other hand, to say that ‘all that is really there, is our own construction‘, implies that magic (control of Reality by Mind) ought to work, and it doesn’t. Therefore a model which says that there is something unknown and perhaps unknowable there, all right, but which we can only experience via self-constructed perceptions of it, seems to be the most efficient. And this is precisely what Kant and Schopenhauer said, and what quantum physics is revealing, and What Hilary Putnam said, and what I feel is worth trying to understand – namely that the world is in fact utterly weird and different from our experience of it, but all we have to work on is our mentally ‘socially constructed’ models of it. That is, we know our experience is limited, and less than the whole, and filtered by our own cultural prejudices, but that is all we have to go on”.
Of course the above, itself, is in fact just another model! And so is not ‘true’. But this brings me to one of the most fundamental issues that the philosophy of science has emphasised, are we actually looking for Truth, at all, when we Do Science?
Truth, Science and Occam’s Razor
People talk glibly about ‘scientific truth’. But, is there such a thing? Most philosophers would say no, there isn’t. And the way science is done, shows us why. Science begins in a view of the world – a model if you like – that starts with some ad hoc assumptions (the Kantian a-prioris) that we cannot know to be true. Namely that the world of our experience as a collection of ‘things’ in a space time universe where ‘stuff happens ‘ to change the experience of it over a a period of time, cannot in any way be shown to be correct. Nor indeed a further assumption, that in fact these changes are brought about by timeless Eternal Rules, what we would call the laws of Nature, or Physics, operating mathematically and exactly to turn the present into the future, via Causality.
But in order to ‘do science’ we have to assume that they are true. Which is why they are referred to as ‘metaphysics’ and ‘a priori‘ because they are ‘beyond physics’ and ‘before the fact’ of science.
Science made a huge impact on the philosophy of its day, because in spite of these objections to it, which were quite well understood by the theologians and philosophers of the day, it worked, and worked spectacularly well. And is is that success that led its protagonists, from Galileo to Dawkins, to claim that must mean it was True. And to this day the ‘social sciences’ are trying to emulate its successes and claim some truth content thereby, by calling themselves sciences, a condition known as ‘physics envy’.
And from there, it was but a short step from observing that one didn’t need to ‘believe on God’ to ‘do science’ which worked, to thereby claim that therefore God did not exist. But that’s a whole new can of worms.
Let me state the position that I believe Philosophy of Science to be in. The fact that Science works, when operating on the ‘rational materialist’ model that it has to assume is the case, neither ‘proves’ that the inductive hypotheses that it posits are ‘true’ or that indeed the whole rational materialist edifice upon which it all rests, is in fact valid metaphysics at all!
And this is where the pseudo-scientists and religious fundamentalists step in to say ‘well it’s all just another belief system, innit?’, and claim that it’s therefore no better than ‘climate science’ or ‘creationism’. Or ‘my little Jihad’..
And in a limited sense they are right! But there is one thing that separates proper science from the rest, and that is that it works! Yes, behind all the formulae and the mumbo jumbo that it seems to be, if you take the rational materialist’s world view, and operate upon it scientifically, you get to predict the future, more or less. The ‘planets’ will be where you thought they would, experiment will more or less produce the predicted results, and science based technology will mostly just ‘work’ as evinced by the fact that I can type this, and you can read it.
And that in the end is the only defence Science has to offer. Not that it’s true, or has any ‘truth content’ at all – although some still claim that the fact that it works is ‘strong evidence’ that its ‘true’ more or less – but that it works. And when it stops working, that’s a sign that it’s no longer science, or is refuted science. A proposition that didn’t produce predictions that matched reality…
The acknowledgement of this utter inability to provide any sort of proof of being true, is what the widely quoted and usually totally misunderstood ‘Occam’s Razor’ is all about. What the monk William of Ockham actually said was roughly “apart from God and the Holy Scriptures, and things that are self-evidently True, we should not construct elaborate fancies to explain things when simple ones are just as good”. This is widely misunderstood to mean that the simple explanations are the true ones. That was never Occam’s point. His point was all about utility – not truth content.
And that really sums up the second part of this diversion into philosophy: Science isn’t true, it’s what works to predict the future, and if it fails to work, it’s not Science any more. Creationism, Intelligent Design, and My Little Jihad, don’t predict the future. In fact they don’t actually even set out to predict the future. They are therefore Not Science. And not on a par with science. Insofar as Climate Science does set out to predict the future, its failed, or refuted science, because it’s failed to predict it accurately or usefully, and, insofar as it never was really intended to predict the future, it’s just another metaphysical position entirely on a par with Creationism, Intelligent Design, and My Little Jihad.
And that brings me to the final point I want to try and make, as to how philosophy, and in particular the a priori model of the sort of metaphysics that I, and I believe Hilary Putnam, espoused, can make sense of the socio-political narratives of climate change alarmism. And indeed very much of the politics of what is generally termed the Left, which is inextricably linked to it, as well as the Religious Right.
Morality as a Social Construct – the Emotional Narrative.
When I described the function and purpose of what I consider to be Science, what is perhaps startling is that in the end, the only value judgement I applied, or indeed feel I can apply, to it, is that it just works.
And this brings me to a peculiar moral position. Morality, more than physical reality, is a social construct. Moreover its not based on anything beyond humanity. Does the Universe care if we live, love, die, or were never born?
Only if you believe in an Anthropic God.
Otherwise it is simply not possible to distinguish right from wrong, good from evil, in any absolute sense. And yet our media is awash with narratives – emotional narratives – exhorting us to ‘Do the Right Thing’. But what actually is The Right Thing? Where can we find some objective yardstick for moral behaviour? Scriptures? The Democrat Party or the UK Labour Party? The Koran?
What light does the metaphysical model outlined earlier shed on the issues of right and wrong, good and bad?
Almost, but not completely, none. It has no concept of a morality in the traditional sense, it, like science, is totally amoral. But just as we arrive at a justification for Science in terms of its utility, we arrive at something like a moral position in terms of utility, too…
…It is conventional wisdom that Darwin’s theory of evolution leads to a sort of law called ‘survival of the fittest’ . However on closer inspection, that sort of Nietzschian perspective is shown to be false as well. What is actually the deductible corollary of the Theory of Evolution, is that it only leads to eradication of that which is so counter-survival, that the young of the species do not live long enough to reproduce themselves.
And that is why we still have appendices. They haven’t killed us. Yet. Mostly.
This basic principle, that ‘That which persists, is that which is not sufficiently dysfunctional to create its own downfall‘ is a very important point to note, because it explains in a way why this is the worst of all possible worlds. It simply only needs to be that good, to keep ticking over.
If we apply it to humans and their socially accepted ideas, not just about the nature of physical reality, but the nature of the sort of moral and social reality which is the sandpit of the Intellectual Left, and of course those involved in proselytising Religions, like Radical Islam (My Little Jihad) and Creationism, we can see that any sort of elaborate nonsense, provided it doesn’t lead to complete mass suicide, is as good as any other, especially in a socialist post-modern industrialist society with welfare, where frankly all you need to do to survive is work out how to game the system for the welfare, and walk to McDonalds. What you happen to believe – whether you are in fact God’s chosen ones, or the dregs of society – is a free choice at the functional level. As long as it doesn’t make you sufficiently depressed to kill yourself before Having Sex, and Making Babies, it’s cool!
And if you have a Vote, or a pocketful of Someone Else’s Money, given to you by a Compassionate Caring State (allegedly), why then, if someone wants that money or that vote, and are not particular about how they get it, they will tell you anything you want to hear, and basically what that means is they will tailor an emotional narrative to exactly make you feel as good about yourself as possible, and sell it to you. Or one to make you feel as bad about yourself as possible, and sell you the antidote!
Whatever.
c.f. Marxism as the classic example. You the mass of voters are miserable, because they, the few people who have a bit of cash, are oppressing you, and so by revolting against them, you will all be as rich as they were before you took all their money. Or the State did, on your behalf.
The problem with selling you a reality that makes you feel good about yourself – ‘God loves you: Chill!’ is that you can’t actually really sell a product based on that. All the best marketing comes from identifying, or if not creating basic needs that the product will satisfy. Over and over.
Until Colgate, no one brushed their teeth twice a day, let alone after every meal, and if they did, they used salt. The Genius of Colgate, ‘For people who can’t brush their teeth after every meal’ was the subtle implication of guilt if you didn’t do that (and who did?) and the instant catapulting of Colgate Toothpaste into the top brand arena…
Prior to the invention of Radio, then TV, of course there wasn’t much opportunity for all this. OK we had religion, and could sell ‘indulgences’ to free people from sin, and pieces of the One True Cross. And saint’s bones and the like, all of which were profitable, but there are only so many bits of The One True Cross that you can sell.
But with the invention of the Printing Press, the Radio, and the State Broadcast, all this stuff – previously the province of either priests chanting in the Churches, or hedge witches muttering curses under their breath, in the pagan arena, this became a billion dollar business, and the primary means by which nation states that didn’t want to actually start a real war, fought each other. As an offshoot of the Great Game, propaganda and marketing became the primary weapon of war of all power blocs, and parties with aspirations. Less a Game of Thrones and more a Game of Lies.
And the reason is simple. Morality and emotion are in the end human constructs, and so are all the beliefs about rights and wrongs, good and bad, and so on, and have absolutely no objective Truth at all. When I talked about Idealism and Realism, it was with respect to the science of the material world, which I posited did at least represent something external, beyond human construction.
Where morality is concerned, however, there is nothing. Not if we are considering it as rational beings. We need to posit an external physical world in some sense, to make sense of everything, but there is no need whatsoever to posit an external moral standard. And that is the frightening and appalling truth that people find very hard to stomach, and why they find it easier to behave as if there were such a standard, and what we can say is that societies that have such cultural patterns, that behave as if there were some moral standard, are less dysfunctional than those that do not. If this is sounding a bit Nietzschian, and God forbid, Third Reich-ish, you are right. Societies bound by common beliefs that are strong, and beliefs not so fallacious as to ensure their destruction, are likely to trample all over societies that really can’t say any more what is right or wrong. My Little Jihad trumps Western Liberalism, Western Liberalism trumps careful scientific scepticism, because at a given level, they are simple clear and cohesive messages.
Not because they are true, or even morally right, but because they have a momentum and a quality that makes them successful.
And this is, I would aver, precisely where we are with Climate Change, the socio-political phenomenon. Most people do not know the truth of whether it’s science or not, or whether it is true or not, even if it is science. And, most tellingly, most people do not care. Because in the field of human behaviour, voting and spending power is deployed not according to what is true, but according to what people (want to) believe to be true, or can be manipulated to believe to be true, and those can be poles apart. And Climate Alarmists are simply acceding to this position, They either don’t know that they are lying, or they actually don’t care if they are lying, because lying actually gets them, personally, a better life, than the truth!
It’s only when we have to deal with the physical reality of the world, that the truth has any point to it.
False beliefs spin no turbines, but they can spin the economies and politics and religions of this world indefinitely. So long as they are not so dysfunctional as to result in “no sex and no propagation”.
And the wonderful post Christian compassionate Welfare States that we have built, with the best of intentions, have resulted in a population who can believe in almost anything, from Aromatherapy to Zoroastrianism, without it actually being a huge problem for their survival.
Until the wind drops, the turbines stop and Physical Reality kicks them in the pants.
Then the law of eradication of that which is counter-survival will happen, and billions will die.
Up till now, the questions have been:
Do you want to be:
(a) On the winning side?
(b) Morally right ?
and
(c) Scientifically correct?
(d) Alive?
And by choosing climate alarmism most people felt they made (a) and (b) and hoped that if (c) were true, (d) would result.
But a careful recourse to sceptical philosophy, shows that (c) is almost certainly wrong, and because it’s wrong, (d) becomes a real issue, and because (d) is a real issue, it’s not so clear that (a) accrues either. And who cares about being morally right, if you’re scientifically wrong, on the losing side, and dead?
The very great danger that we face, is that political propaganda, hearts and minds, and all that, has gone too far. Much too far. It’s one thing to sell toothpaste to guilty teeth-brushers, but to sell wind turbines and Carbon Credits to guilty Ecos, is pushing it. And if the total inanity and confusion with which the Left have flooded Western Society for the last two generations has resulted in a society that no longer knows what it believes in, or why, and where anything it feels is probably wrong in someone’s moral handbook, and is too polite and nice to say ‘so what?’, proves to have basically resulted in no ability to cohesively resist forces which will destroy it, well, so, it will be destroyed. There comes a point at which dysfunctionality will destroy a society that is full of crazy ideas and has no idea how to keep itself alive.
A simple message went out: “Climate change threatens our very existence, because it is true”.
We need to reverse that with a simple statement: “Climate change threatens our very existence, because it isn’t true”.
And if you want voting guidance, remember that all you are voting for is always going to be a pack of lies, no matter who is telling it. Just vote for the most amusing liars, and the ones that look too incompetent to wreck everything, and hope that someone somewhere has the intelligence to realise that it is in the end it is not in anyone’s best interest to destroy the world in pursuit of power and profit, no matter how much they tell you that that is in fact exactly what they are trying to prevent.
In conclusion
It has been interesting trying to compress a lifetime’s personal journey, into just a few pages, and focus the impact down to a very selective target audience. What I really hope to have done, is to show why and in what way some of the more interesting aspects of metaphysics are really important in terms of real-life/here-now issues.
Metaphysics is, in itself, the study of the assumptions we have to make in order to be able to think and talk about the world at all, the concepts and ideas and prejudices that underpin our idea of ‘what the world consists of’. It has gone out of fashion because after millennia of argument, the modern philosophers decided that it wasn’t possible to decide what the One True Picture really was, and that argument was therefore pointless. If I read him aright, that’s probably where Wittgenstein left the matter. However as an engineer, I am not interested in the One True Picture, just a useful picture (or indeed pictures) that work, to solve the problems I encounter. And that is where I find value in metaphysics, in the construction of pragmatic metaphysical systems, that actually solve problems. These metaphysical systems are of course just models, and therefore can never be proven to be true, all one can hope for is that the insights they provide and the pictures they produce help to solve immediate problems.
Hilary Putnam was the philosopher who most seemed to be taking a similar approach. Unsurprisingly since he was working with physicists at the edge of quantum theory to try and make sense of the ‘facts’ of quantum physics and reconcile them with the ‘facts’ of ordinary common sense, a similar conflict led me to similar territory. Namely the hypothesis that the world we experience as individuals and indeed cultures, is a model, that is limited in scope, thoroughly and inevitably steeped in prejudice, and is an unknown and unknowable distance from ‘the Truth’. It is that dreaded Social Construct . And conflicts arise because we deny this. Once we acknowledge the terrifying truth that everybody lives in their own world, and that stuff which they will swear is Real and the Truth, is to other people, simply perplexing rubbish, because they are employing a different metaphysical set of assumptions about it, most of the conflicts disappear.
It is the humility needed to accept that science is not truth, on the one hand, but neither is the moral high ground of the ‘Liberal Arts’ crowd either. There is an apocryphal joke that sums it up:
“When I want to get somewhere, the last form of transport I would choose is a Harley Davidson”
“But when I am awn ma Hog, I am already exactly where I wanna be!”.
And there, in a nutshell we have it. In the absence of an external point of moral reference, we need the emotional narratives to somehow inform us at a personal level of where we want to be. But in terms of getting there, we have to throw out the left brain, and invoke the right brain, to arrive. The mistake of the adherents of the Left, is that they fail to do this. The mistake of the adherents of the Right, is that they don’t actually know where they want to go.
Perhaps Western technology came so fast that we were spoiled for choice as to where we should go, and that explains the rise and rise of the ’emotional’ side of ourselves, as we desperately looked for reasons why we should or shouldn’t deploy the technology in terms of creating a ‘better future’ without really knowing what that meant, until it arrived. And found that perhaps after all it wasn’t better. Just bigger. A telling point is, that as compared with say a generation ago, the biggest killer of young males is no longer road accidents, but suicide.
We have lost the emotional certainties of a cohesive religious culture, and thrown open the door to any and every kind of nonsense, all competing for space in our brains, and most of which is marketed to strip the individual of his vote or his cash, or both.
I have no solution, other than to reiterate what I answered in reply to “You claim to be an Atheist, or at least an Agnostic, yet seem to behave as a better Christian than most churchgoers. How come?”
“Because I think it’s a better way to live, to behave as if there were a God, as if there were some judgement over one’s life, and not only does it make me personally feel better, it creates a cohesive humble and co-operative and strong society. Why can’t we accept paying lip-service to a religion we don’t believe in, on the grounds that its simply a good thing for us, and society to do, for our own survival?”
Where metaphysics is concerned, we are compelled to behave as if the a priori assumptions we make about the world are in fact ‘true’.
In the end, my point is that we can’t prove that they are, and they may not be, so we should not prosecute our deductions from those assumptions with the zeal of certainty. But neither should we give up. They may not be the Truth, but they are, used correctly, nearer true than anything else we have to hand. And what is manifestly and demonstrably false is when we hypothesise a structure that claims to explain and predict some aspect of the metaphysical position we have already taken, when in fact it does nothing of the sort. AGW fails to actually pass the tests of a scientific theory.
There is no moral compass. But there is a pragmatic one. It is the one that gets us where we want to go, and its name is Science and Reason. It can’t help with deciding where we want to go, but it can once we have decided that, tell us how to get there efficiently. If applied correctly.
There is no way we can know absolute truth, but, inside of a set of metaphysical assumptions, we can tell if some hypotheses are less true than others, because they don’t actually work.
It’s a pretty lousy set of criteria on which to base the survival of a whole species, but friends, in the end, that is all we have got. Put your trust in what works. Not because [it is] true, but because [it] is not demonstrably false. Yet.
And hope that you have not simply found a temporarily advantageous metaphysics.
The one and only cautionary picture belongs here.
“How are you getting on with that Jumping Out of the Window and Not Hitting the Ground thing, Carruthers?”
Leo Smith
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“People talk glibly about ‘scientific truth’. But, is there such a thing? Most philosophers would say no, there isn’t. ”
instead of groping for synthesis of falsehood you can’t recognize and truth you can not define, why don’t you start FIRST with a definition of TRUTH.
if you can’t get that far, give the up cuz you won’t be getting anywhere.
your writing makes me think of jerry lewis staggering down a hallway full of mop buckets – just cringeworthy.
start over with aristotle and the axiom ‘existence exists’.
before you even think of tackling philosophy, you need a grasp of epistemology which is conspicuously absent.
hey, john wright- you could get your site up and try to fix this, you know.
it really is going to be the death of us all.
Why thanks for the moral support and the constructive criticism.
I have three questions for you.
If it’s so wrong, why don’t you write a better one? I am merely trying to point out some of the deep issues and misbeliefs people have about what science actually is, and what is factual knowledge and what is not. And how those misbeliefs and the emotional and indeed physical needs of peole drive them to not be ideal human beings, but simply ones that survive.
Because it seems to me to be important, in the context of the abuse of knowledge and ‘intellectual authority’ that is going on.
Or do you think that criticising, without offering an alternative is in fact a superior response?
And finally, do you think that the subjects is important enough to shoot me down in flames, but not important enough for you to improve on what I was trying to do?
Assuming you actually understood what I was in fact driving at.
.
Because I am afraid your response feels to me like the sort of response one gets from certain warmist trolls who say things like “Leo smith a well known denialist spouts more stuff that was all refuted years ago at ‘skepticalscience’ haha”.
That was the FIRST TIME I ever used this name online in connection with anything, and they claimed I was ‘well known’ and had been ‘refuted years ago’, and the particular things I was discussing had to my pretty certain knowledge never been aired before.
As I say, Id like to say that you were right, that I have thoroughly abused the philosophical vocabulary, got a lot of definitions wrong, and been inconsistent and cavalier with how I used words and imprecise in my definitions, and that that actually really matters. But I cant. IN the end this is an exercise in constructing a point of view, that I hoped would inform. If it conflicts with your point of view and upset you, sorry, but I have a task I am trying to do, and that is to construct a particular position, not for the benefit of philosophers, who in my experience are frightful pedants and would rather spend all day picking something to pieces than try and construct a meaningful sentence, but for people who have not had the benefit of your academic training in the subject, that you have so far not deigned to share with them
You should know, that precise definitions of words is a fruitless enterprise when you are talking about the way in which words themselves and the meaning attached to them form our views of the world and what is real.
IN the end the game here is thinking about thinking, and that is a deeply recursive exercise, to the point where precision becomes totally useless, and one must needs resort to poetic allegory.
I know what I am trying to say, criticise me for failing to make it clear, criticise me for using the wrong words, rewrite it for the audience so that it is correct, but dont you dare criticise me for trying, something you have to date singularly failed to do.
You want my respect? Come out and tell us where it’s at then? Or are we too stupid to grasp it?
no, sir, i can not educate you. that can only be done by you and only by making the effort.
“You should know, that precise definitions of words is a fruitless enterprise ” < this is why you can not be educated even by yourself.
words are the tools of cognition and you fail to grasp even that.
so words will not cure you — you first need to learn the definition of 'definition' which you demonstrably do not know and which you dispute the validity of anyhow- yet you want me to credit your semiotics with meaning more significant than an animal's grunting? seriously? you don't even know how dumb that is because it's your core belief right where it kills your ability to know ANYTHING.
no, i don't want your respect. no, i'm not your unpaid tutor. yes, you are- and stop waving your 'we'
Leo- i’ve written plenty. the ideas you struggle with are things i mastered before i was a teen.
wherefore is it incumbent on me to rescue your willful failure?
wherefore are you entitled to be upset, even? it’s only words and they have no relation to non-existent truth, right?
yet you will try to use those undefinable whatever.they.ares to assert truths you disbelieve to claim abuse?
sir- you are the abuser of words, of cognition itself, of truth.
hypocrisy is another word and, like all words, it has a definition- that’s the definition of a word, in fact.
if A then B. if not B then not A.
if your ‘words’ don’t have definitions, then they aren’t words, helloooooo.
you’ve failed the very basics and want credit for achievement?
talk about embezzlement…
People tend to think that Truth/Lie = Right/Wrong = Good/Bad. Most people feel comfortable with Yes/No. Unfortunately, for them, the world is analog and not digital.
Good essay. I understand your thoughts despite the words you used, that some people seem to have objected to.
here are 3 classic ‘spinners’ that are used to cripple a mind.
they all resolve to simple self contradictions.
here i will present them in simplest form so you can identify them in future:
1 – there is absolutely no such thing as an absolute
2 – there is truly no such thing as truth
3 – it is known that one can’t know everything, therefore one can not know anything
now see if you can tell where you have exhibited them
that’s for diagnostic purposes.
as i said before, the remedy is to start from the axiom ‘existence exists’
everything logically follows from that – but you must not take anybody’s word for it (and i decline the easy shot, here) you must figure that out for yourself. you must know it for yourself. you must prove to yourself that your mind is adequate.
nobody can do those things for you.
gnomish
You missed point 4 – When you speak gibberish only gibbers can understand you
And it all depends on what the meaning of “is” is. Seem appropriate.
If only ‘gnomish’ could have been around at the beginning of civilization he would have saved folks a lot of time and energy.
Yep, where were all the condescending smart-arses when we really needed them?
Just one of the those mind bending philosophical twisters, I guess.
@PB
No way to reply directly under your post, so tacked on at the end.
Sorry for being abrupt previously. Let me clarify.
The central issue in the philosophy of science is the problem of inductive reasoning, which you seem to have missed entirely.
Firstly thank you for (unlike others) taking the time and trouble to explain what you felt was wrong with what I wrote.
Actually the way I personally understand it, is that inductive reasoning and its problem for philosophers of science and otherwise, is for me simply taken for granted. When I talk of a model, I assume people understand that a model is the result of induction, which is why it can’t be proved to be true. If you like, what I am getting at is not to try and find a fix for the problem of induction, but to accept that it absolutely and totally rules out the possibility of ever being sure about anything in model-space: Into that fog of uncertainty I try to inject a new approach. Which is to replace truth content with a different sort of value judgement, that of utility.
What you are talking about is the problem of epistemology and the extent to which our beliefs based on the world of our experience can properly be considered, or give rise to, ‘knowledge’. This problem impacts all of our beliefs equally, not just scientific reasoning. This problem impacts religious and creationist beliefs just the same way and to the same extent. And, it includes and equally impacts your belief that ‘science works’. You believe that science works because you saw it with your own eyes right?
No. That isn’t correct. I dont believe science works because I saw it with my own eyes. It could easily be that someone else …but no, that’s simply naive realism.
It’s difficult for me to put into words the picture I hold in my head, especially since the words I try to use have often been assigned different meanings.
First of all, for me, what forms our experience of the world, is a process I might call reification, the splitting up and categorisation of sensation into a world of ‘objects’ in ‘time and space’ made of ‘stuff’ and so on. The physical world anyway. Of course a similar process is happening with our touchy feelies, but we tend not to reify to such an extent. They remain vague and fuzzy.
Now when I examine what I mean by that, I realise that at a subliminal level that is exactly, a process of making a model, out of sensation, and it is therefore just another load of induction, even though its pre – rational. So it’s not inductive reasoning, its just inductive construction of a series of propositions, subject object relationships which define and in the end construct a model of the world, which is what we then operate upon exclusively when in a rational context.
When you talk about epistemology, it sort of simply not passes me by, but seems to be an argument that I simply feel we don’t need to have. The perceptual structure that emerges, is 100% affected by the inductive elements we have placed in it. If you like space and time and causality are what you call “beliefs based on the world of our experience”. I am not in the game of trying to find the One True Path To Truth etc. I gave that up decades ago as a fruitless search. Of course all our experience from which we derive any knowledge at all, unless you hold with Gnosis, is filtered through our beliefs, but I wouldn’t say they are based on the world of our experience, no, I would say it makes more sense to say that our beliefs form the very nature of our experience itself. But they are not alone in that.
In quasi mathematical terms, our experience is a function of our innate beliefs, and ‘whatever is the case’ , the world of whatever it is that lies beyond our direct apperception. We have sensation, and from that, we, using whatever internal algorithms, mechanisms and structures we have somehow got access to, intuit the existence of the world, in the form it appears to us. That’s my position . That’s my temporary ad hoc ‘best position I can come up with’ model.
My real fundamental issue was ‘how much of experience is in the mind, or is it all in the mind?” and that question itself I ultimately saw as unanswerable. But when I looked at what the options were, the pragmatic options, I realised that what is going on, is not that we are really arriving at truth, or even knowledge, but that we make a certain set of maybe subliminal assumptions, and by assumption I mean the a prioris of induction, to arrive at a view of the world, that is coherent and useful and allows us to live as if we were sane beings in a stable predictable physical world, with a McDonald’s on every street corner etc.
And in that sense a lot of metaphysics and what you call epistemology became completely irrelevant. They were arguing over things they themselves had invented. Trying to establish in-decidable things. Positing structures and positions that inevitably could always be refuted because in the end there is no One True Position.
Did you also hear a tree fall over in woods?
OK if that is what epistemology is supposed to be, fine, I am in that territory for sure. But not exactly in the way that you describe., You are describing problems that my construct simply doesn’t have, because it says that all constructs are in the end constructs, and constructs are all we have, but not all that there is. I find that Schopenhauer’s position is very useful here.
I.e. What I am saying is that what we do, is to operate as if stuff were true. We make assumptions – like trees falling in the woods make a noise even when we don’t hear them – or we can assume the opposite. It doesn’t matter, because the truth content is in either case indecidable, what counts is the picture of the world that results, and how functional and effective it is as a vehicle to carry us through our lives.
Karl Popper, Thomas Kuhn, and the rest were all concerned with ways to conceive of science without depending on inductive reasoning and thus avoiding the problem of induction. Paradigm shifts, conjectures and refutations, falsification, and so on and so forth, are all just ways to try to argue that science does not critically depend upon inductive reasoning.
I really don’t see that at all. I think they are rather ways in which inductive reasoning can be tested to make sure its not totally dysfunctional (Popper), and in the case of Kuhn describing the process by which some inductive reasoning works, not as a linear progression of speculation, but as a sudden shift to a new set of assumptions, that pull a new worldview into sharp focus.
You can’t avoid the problem of induction, period. You/they are looking for certainty where none exists. Dead end. Accept it. Move on. End of argument.
What is important about the physical world, in the sense we understand it, is that it makes the most sense when we regard it as an externality, an existence beyond our concept of self: That doesn’t mean it is, just that where we are today places it there, and gives it a rule set that is independent and beyond our power to affect it. That doesn’t make it true, or a fact, exactly, but if we operate on that set of assumptions when constructing a materialist world view, we do get an orderly arrangement of things which we can refine and make more precise, and to me that refining and precision is what science is about. Our whole world view is one massive lump of inductive logic, BUT the point is this, some choices of inductive logic premises lead to insane, uncomfortable or unstable relationships with ‘whatever is the case’ The triumph of humanity as a thinking entity, or entities, is to arrive at assumptions and relationships with whatever the Universe is, that are tight, functional and effective in allowing us to live and interact with it.
So you have missed the entire point of the philosophy of science.
Maybe so. Or maybe I just left it to smoulder in the dung heap of intellectual posturing it’s been mired in. I dunno. Maybe you have missed the entire point of whatever it is that I am talking about. Maybe it is after all what you call epistemology. I don’t particularly care. All I am saying is that somewhere in the dusty tomes of philosophy, are some ideas that may just help us and inform us on some issues of the day that we must personally feel important, or we wouldn’t be here on WUWT.
And your point concerning epistemology is entirely flawed as soon as you try to give special status to scientific beliefs as opposed to any other beliefs in this context on the basis that ‘science works’. Do you imagine that we believe that science works because of something other than our sensory experience of it? What does empirical mean…? Science may well have special status but not in this context.
So, you have misunderstood your subject in quite fundamental ways, hence my earlier response.
My point is and remains this, simply. Within the context of an arbitrary world view, which is in itself an arbitrary piece of inductive modelling, that maps certain aspects of sensation onto the experience of ‘an external physical world’ science works in more accurately describing the relationship between those elements that arise from that process. That doesn’t make that world view the truth, and it doesn’t even make science true, in its analysis and modelling of the elements of that world view, but it does make the whole thing useful and internally self consistent. What we seem to be doing with science, in this model of how things are, is to use it to create an internal structure of precise relationships between precisely defined elements of our world view, to provide a more secure and predictable view of the world that results. None of this is ‘real’. But it is a way of living.
AS such I claim that its a technique that is qualitatively different from religion, and so on, in that while they too seek to impose an order on the world view of their adherents, and to make everything well, and put God in his place, they don’t have the precision or the utility that science does. That is, whilst at one level they are on a par, at another they are not. Science is a tool that allows us a particular power. Maybe we trade other stuff to have that power, but still, it has a particular power that religion does not.
If that is a bit opaque, perhaps an explanation is in order. Once I saw a flyer from some Christian order, that had a message from (Sir) Cliff Richard, the well known Christian pop star, saying ‘One day, instead of placing myself at the centre of my world, I placed Jesus there, and my world changed utterly’.
And I thought ‘well you idiot, what else did you expect?’ That is what e.g. belief in God does, it changes people’s personal world views and gives them one presumes, a certain quality of hopefulness and peace and so on, which may in fact be very useful for their personal survival, But it doesn’t allow them to predict the future.
Science, the placing of an inanimate, mechanistic world of objects related by blind uncaring natural law, at the centre of your world, allows you do do science and predict the future, insofar as it defines the way in which those terms are understood. If you want to feel loved, become a Christian, if you want to predict cool stuff, adopt the scientific world view. It’s really that simple. And you can in fact do BOTH. Just not at the exact same time. You dont got to church to do quantum physics and you don’t pray to a cyclotron.
Does this explain my position? Science and the practice of it is part of a whole model of the world, which I would class as the scientific or rational materialistic sort of world view. What you describe as the philosophy of science, is simply a vain attempt to actually work out if that world view is ‘correct’ or not. I.e. It’s just another ‘Mine is the one True Stick’ game (I used to play this with my dog. There was, on any given day, only One True Stick to be thrown. However his memory was short, and it would be a different one tomorrow) and I gave up that game 40 years ago. Which is why I get rather irritated by most philosophy. The point is not that it’s correct, but that it exists and can be used.
That’s one part of it, the other part is that in whatever world view we arrive at there does seem to be an external ordering of stuff going on, and that is stuff that directly affects us, and I find the rational material world view to be the one that squares up to the problem of the existence of something other than ourselves, in the most effective way.
Effective, it is admitted, is yet another value judgement.
The problem is, you seem to place all world views on a par, and that leaves you unable to defend any of them.
And yet you seem unable to rise above them and see them for what I see them to be, just ways of relating to an unknown and unknowable world, that are different, and reflect different personal desires on the part of people who adopt them, like suits of clothes.
And your grasp of the philosophical implications of subjectivist ethical positions is worrying.
Well that’s a lot of big words in one sentence to be sure! All I am saying is that we all have to wear a suit of clothes, because going naked into the unknown seems to be a bit beyond us. All one can say about ethics is that they too are part of that suit of clothes, and suits of clothes are in the end a personal choice if you have the independence of spirit, or a uniform if you join someone else’s army. There’s nothing true or provable about ethics any more than there is about anything else. Some ethics keep some folks doing the life game longer than others, that’s all. My point was that you don’t need to believe, to wear a particular suit of clothes, that’s a mugs game and strips you having the full wardrobe. All that is required is to put on the suit of clothes, wear it and act as if it were the One True Stick you held, even though you know it isn’t, and that tomorrow it will be different. That’s a truth of a sort, you can’t, it seems, be in two world views at once, though you can seamlessly shift between them, and many psychotic and schizophrenic people do just that. The difference between a psychotic and a sane human, is that the sane person understands that is what they are in fact doing…
And that is how I see most philosophy, with a few rare exceptions. People arguing over their wardrobes, because they feel that there has to be One True Stick, and its important they find it. I say there are an infinite number of them, and plenty more sticks that are demonstrably NOT the One True Stick, and its a free choice ultimately.
With respect, and I genuinely feel that, you seem to be criticising me for not engaging in a debate about stuff I actually consider irrelevant because it is indecidable.
What you say about where ‘the philosophy of science’ is at, may well be true, and maybe what I am espousing is simply a different view on things to that held by those esteemed men. Maybe it is the ‘philosophy of engineering’ I am talking about, because I am using such philosophy as I have understood, and plagiarised and dreamed up, not to establish truth content, but utility, and that leads me to a multi-faceted position, where all positions are demonstrably false, but some are more false than others, and some definitely lead to self extinction, and some have persistence. Choosing the ones less false with more persistence is, I aver, the nearest thing to a value judgement one can make.
The problem with AGW alarmist, who are just a single class in a set of people who ‘believe in stuff that we don’t’, is that in terms of the suits they put on, they are completely right and justified, and denying that there is any set of clothes but the ones they wear, is a condition of wearing them: That is the subtlety of the propaganda that comprises their tailoring. The first rule of Fight Club is don’t talk about Fight Club etc. etc. Saying that they are wrong, from our perspective, is a waste of breathe mainly.
They are however, dedicated followers of fashion, and all we can do is dangle a new set of clothes and wave a new True Stick in front of them, and hope that they will get bored with the one they have and gallop off and chase that one instead.
It would be funny if AGW petered out, not because people had Damascene moments and realised they were Wrong, but simply because after all the fuss, people just yawned and said ‘Climate change?, yeah, whatever: Can’t we talk about something else, I’m BORED.’
There are signs at some levels, that this may indeed be happening.
Leo, sorry but you are absolutely bastardising some very, very important philosophical concepts and in such a long winded way and to such an extent that it makes it very difficult to respond constructively for anyone who has a day job. Give me an hour or two an I’ll see what I can come up with.
I’ll say this though – you have some balls to mock me for using long words after what I’ve just waded through.
@PB
I believe Leo already thoroughly acknowledged the bastardization you speak of, several times. Pedantic adherence to philosophical definitions can stifle progress. A good example of this is your handful of posts which amount to little more than finger pointing without adding to the conversation, or correcting it as you believe is appropriate, but haven’t done.
Scientific “knowledge” gained by inductive reasoning has utility, whether the epistemology is “absolutely” airtight or not. Perhaps the quotes I placed around these sensitive words will stop the steam escaping your ears.
Thermodynamics doesn’t care whether existence exists.
Rob,
Do you care that the laws of thermodynamics are properly defined, or understood?
Define “defined”, and “understood”.
I care that thermodynamics is useful.
I’m not a practitioner of intelligent design, but it does attempt to predict the future in some ways. For instance, it predicts that life is irreducibly complex. Now tomorrow we could find a life form that uses DNA but only requires a handful of genes to survive and reproduce in nature. But so far that has not occurred, and the irreducible number of genes needed for life seems to be in the hundreds. I don’t personally see how hundreds of individual essential characteristics of life spontaneously originate, combine, and make life from nothing, but maybe we will understand it someday.
William James on a new truth:
1. Doesn’t refute necessary underlying truths.
2. Leads to other, unexpected understanding.
3. Has utility (“cash value”).
CO2 climate science refutes how ozone warms the troposphere while requiring ozone warm the stratosphere by the same process. CO2 climate science doesn’t lead to understanding the physical world differently from non-CO2 climate science. CO2 climate science does not produce predictions that are useful (within demonstrable time frames).
CO2 climate science is not involved with truths and only barely with hypotheses. (In fact, the adherents avoid hypotheses as testing leads to showing weaknesses if not actual failures.)
CO2 climate science is still at the stage of theories. If it weren’t for the Precautionary Principle, we’d be doing nothing right now. And if it weren’t for faux social liberalism, with its dismissal of economic considerations for the quality of human life, we wouldn’t be ordered about by the Precautionary Principle.
Right on target with “Precautionary Principle” and how often it is now used!
“Precautionary Principle” has replaced “Prudent Man” which to me are quite different.
A wonderful meaty read, Leo and a good one to spread around to the high certainty crowd.
“…evinced by the fact that I can type this, and you can read it.”
Language is the most remarkable ‘human construct’. That it is instinctive in our species (other species communicate but not in high definition) and useful communication certainly improves chances of survival. It is also a dangerous weapon, of course, and can be used for other purposes bad for our survival.
The bunny rabbit goes out daily and eats his willows and whatever and being poorly defended has a high breeding rate to ensure his survival. We, too, are poorly defended but have language and with it understanding (within your caveats) that gives us technology and insights. If the planet evolves all willows into thorn trees, the rabbit would probably go extinct. Humans have an ultra-high level of presently useless but interesting scientific knowledge. We are driven to study the near and the far without thought about application. This appears to be instinctive. We may, unwittingly, perhaps, be preparing to even leave this planet for another if we perceive conditions may possibly make our survival tenuous despite mitigating technology (I don’t include the sort of ‘imminent’ climate change prognosticated by alarmists as any danger, especially because it is a political crowbar with not much useful science content).
‘What works’, is a good guiding principle! But we have to have an education that helps us to be suspicious of the utility of human constructs that may subvert this principle to sell us toothpaste and worse. Scepticism is the thing! It is what drives the ideologues to distraction and worse, makes them consider terminal solutions to the ‘problems’ they create. Your essay makes the best case for scepticism as a ready tool to have handy. For me, it came naturally and I suspect most thoughtful sceptics came by it naturally. I’m not surprised that this type of ‘knowledge’ is not to be found in the “Core Subjects” stuff put together by ‘progressives’. I would like to see this essay have the broadest possible exposure.
and yet we can’t actually say why they are wrong
Well, I am able to tell people, but the issue is to hold their attention for long enough before the propaganda media interrupts.
The point I hoped to make in saying and yet we can’t actually say why they are wrong is this and its where Willis and I are probably going to disagree.
If you allow for the uncertainty of knowledge itself and its contingency on the particular point of view of the antagonists, then you can in a world or constructs, only say that something is wrong from the perspective of a particular construct.
I can’t criticise someone for e.g. believing in God, because I cant prove God does not exist, I can only criticise them for e.g believing in god and then behaving as if they didn’t. They are in that case wrong by their own /i>standards.
Wrongness is in this case an internal contradiction.
AGW protagonists are wrong only in the limited sense that they espouse the particular worldview in which science has meaning, in order one supposes, to give the pronouncements meaning, but then fail to keep to the particular standards of that world view in conducting their science.
By their own standards, they are in fact morally right, because climate change the horror story MIGHT be true, and IF it is true, or even MIGHT be true they are justified in any amount of lying and fabrication of evidence to stop it. That’s the essential nature of the ‘honest’ alarmist world view, as far as I can tell.
(Of course carpetbaggers along for the ride are what they always have been: opportunist crooks. But that is true of any movement with momentum).
And that was the nature of the quandary: Its easy to sit in a cosy world view and say ‘you are in my terms, totally wrong’; But its doesn’t actually help, unless you are prepared to enforce your world view on the other person, take them to trial and convict them, essentially for believing something different to you.
Unfortunately, stripping aside conventional moral outrage, that was Nuremberg. A bunch of people convicted of having a different ideology to one which was espoused by the winning side. I am not defending that ideology, but I am saying that at some level some of them probably thought it was the One True Ideology, and that what they did was morally justified.
That’s why I hate using moral arguments. It’s a minefield. I rather prefer the man who says. Do what I say, because I have a gun, with the unfriendly part in your direction. There is not much in the way of mealy mouthed hypocrisy there.
Lacking the equivalent of guns however, and feeling that AGW the social phenomenon is far far more dangerous than AGW the alleged reality could ever be, what is the best way to tackle it? Do we need to feel morally justified? Or can we simply say ‘hell; that’s plain WRONG’ and not hesitate? And even if that is what we feel, what is the effective course of action to undermine this emotional narrative that has I am afraid captured the hearts and minds of far too many people who are not really up to the task of the finer distinction of separating ‘fact’ from ‘fiction’ , whatever that may mean.
Does it matter if we lie? They do. Should we? What are the consequences of being open minded, versus closed minded. What does game theory have to say about winning this sort of game?
There is so much more that people could be doing if they cleared away their preoccupations with detail.
I maybe did a piss poor job in writing this. Anthony just stuck it up anyway. But at least its provoked some reactions, positive and negative. And maybe people have evaluated where they stand a bit better as a result, Even if that’s all it did, it was worth it.
+10
Your effort was worth it! Has caused people to reflect on what has and is happening.
“what is the effective course of action to undermine this emotional narrative”
Usually an alternate more effective reverse “emotional alternative”; especially if easily remembered and “catchy”.
Let me take an abbreviated swipe at this.
Science is about figuring out how reality works.
Engineering is about using the bits of science we figured out to build stuff we want.
But, as per Arthur C Clarke, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from science.
We have long since passed the point in time, in the western world at least, where the majority of people spend the majority of their time interacting with the world through magic. They don’t know how the engine in their car works, nor their computer or entertainment systems, or their GPS or their cell phones. They just know which buttons to push (or things to say) to get them to do what they want. For most people, the world runs largely on magic.
Which is why it is fruitless to try and explain Stefan Boltzmann Law or CO2’s effects being logarithmic, for on these two things alone, the argument should long have been over.
And so, the world being run by magic, those who grasp for power are free sell their own version of magic, or the threat there of. What is the difference between “ugh, gods angry, bring much wampum, store in my tent” and “OMG! We’re frying the atmospshere, buy many windmills from me”.
“But, as per Arthur C Clarke, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from science.” Er, from magic I think he said.
yes, my bad
You didn’t mention that we have had about a billion years to refine an acurate view of reality, at least macro-reality. See Darwin, Charles
I read a book by an atheist philosopher, Thomas Nagle, called ‘Mind over Cosmos’. He takes a look at consciousness and how evolution does not even start to explain it and how it began.
We talk about our human consciousness and how it drives us to do certain things and not others. At the very basic level there’s good and evil which appears to be universal and laws like the 10 commandments have attempted to do the job of writing them down.
For me, I find, if I honestly search my conscious it can tell me what’s right and wrong which appears in synch with others doing the same from their different experience/perspectives of life. Although we don’t always follow could concious be the TRUTH we have talked about?
Thanks Leo. A thought provoking read…….
Although we don’t always follow could conscious be the TRUTH we have talked about?
Light up your quantum bongs NOW. And inhale.
It occurs to me, that the simplest theoretical structure that accounts for an observable and external universe. is a 3 dimensional one. in which something – let’s call it ‘consciousness’ intersects with something else, lets call it an unknowable, but not unstructured, reality, and the intersection of the two is what results in the third, the experience of an ‘external world’.
This is not that far from some of the ideas that quantum science is pushing forward. The quantum reality is at some level almost unknowable, but is seems to have structure, but the crazy thing is it seems as if that structure that exists as a probability matrix, ‘collapses’ into a classical view of a material world, when it becomes part of the perceptual process.
I dont think consciousness is the TRUTH, for me its just another hypothetical entity in a particular class of models, BUT that’s not to say that those models may not themselves be useful and gain a better insight into the cutting edge of physics.
The real question is, how much knowledge is actually ‘discovered’ and how much is actually ‘made up’ by whatever it is we actually are. What you might call our consciousness,. How much does it reveal reality, versus how much does it invent it. And is that a helpful way to think about it?
My thesis is that it is a helpful way to think about it, for many many reasons, and we shouldn’t rule out one view or the other. Consciousness invents in order to reveal, would be my stance, because that model I think has the most chance of going the furthest. Doesn’t make it true, but I think it might be very useful, none the less.
Leo Smith,
It’s possible that current instrumentation is just not sensitive enough to resolve the apparent quantum weirdness of the double-slit experriment, the Copenhagen/observer quandary, etc.
This article may have some answers.
The funny thing about The Matrix is that most people would wrongly assume Neo is “the One.” That’s why I like the movie … it can be enjoyed on many levels. Sometimes the lights and explosions are enough cos thinking is hard.
db, as long as “renormalization” is required to resolve the math to observation, I wouldn’t assume that the present concepts are anywhere near reality.
Thanks for a thought-provoking article, and thanks also for clarifying in the article that “Philosophy” is not your ‘first language’, so to speak.
Based on some of the comments above, it seems like a few of the “regulars” forget that Anthony’s site reaches a far broader audience than just the peanut gallery who comment here. Many (probably most) of his readers aren’t scientific or philisophical geniuses, and may be barely literate in these subjects..
Most of the commenters here aren’t polymaths either-in fact some of the “really informed” ones make ignorantly stupid errors and comments at times (don’t we all?)”. I for one appreciate those writers who step out of their own intellectual comfort zone and make an effort to apply their reasoning to a subject , in this case Philosophy, that is not their usual one.
Philosophy is a fairly contentious subject no matter who is writing about it.
If your critics think they can write a better Philosophy article , then they could go ahead and do it, unless of course, criticism is all they have to go on. We are waiting 🙂
What is the difference between “ugh, gods angry, bring much wampum, store in my tent” and “OMG! We’re frying the atmosphere, buy many windmills from me”.
Almost none. And that is another issue that really really worries me. WE have deployed so much easy to use technology, that the skills in using it and the understanding of how it works are almost completely unnecessary to have too USE it. And that means, that if in a generation more, it goes wrong, it’s a serious issue.Because peopel may not understand how to any more. Imagine if we built a self replicating robot, taht could design stuff? Brilliant. Until it goes wrong
There was an advert for BT – BritishTelecom – the privatised British state telecommunications company that still runs all the installed copper in the country.
Scene one, a little old lady lifts the receiver and say ‘oh no, the phone is dead’.
Cut to scenes of BT vans rushing around the country, men in hi vis and hardhats up poles, men in cabinets joining wires, men with testgear prodding and poking….
Cut back to little old lady , picking up the telephone again and hearing a dial tone ‘sometimes things just fix themselves all by themselves’. She smiles in blissful ignorance..
I don’t have the answer.
“I don’t have the answer.”
Neither do I and that is is my engine.
Two philosophers worth a read are Ian Hacking and Nancy Cartwright who worked together as ‘entity realists’, i.e. entities are real but theories are not.
Thanks for an interesting and well-written piece.
There was an advert for BT
Friend of mine was a technician at a telco in Canada. Got a call from a little old lady who complained that her phone didn’t ring. He initiated some test procedures which included a ring back, which resulted in her answering the phone. She insisted it didn’t ring though. So how did she know to answer the phone? The dog in the back yard barked. Time for a personal field visit. At her house, phone tested fine, but ring back produced nothing… except the sound of a dog barking in the back yard. Arf, arf, arf, silent, silent, silent, arf arf, arf…
Upon investigation a small dog was discovered on an aluminum choke chain, one end of which had been looped around the drop line from the telephone pole. Over time, the dog running back and forth had worn the insulation off the wires and the dog was getting 48 volts ring voltage through the choker chain….
I don’t have the answer.
Heh. We muddled through the “ugh, gods angry” centuries and we’ll muddle through this too.
“…so much easy to use technology, that the skills in using it and the understanding of how it works are almost completely unnecessary…”
Yes. Knowledge and work processes are increasingly being built into software and therefore centralized and very often inflexible. Which makes individual-level problem-solving difficult (i.e., you’d need a programming team to develop a better way of doing things – is management typically interested in doing this? Of course not; they just spent millions of dollars implementing their system, which was likely purchased based on a demo and promises).
Thank you. That helped me a lot with the Leftist insanity thing….they are reading a different Metaphysics manual.
Good ole Scotty nailed it: “Ye cannae change th’ laws o’physics, Keptin!”
And we’re a long way yet away from fully understanding them. The mission is separating the signal from the NOISE–in EVERYTHING.
Thank you Mr.Smith.
Thank you very much.
I’ve personally known a number of philosophers and they are really strange people (plus I just can’t seem to make myself care about the things they talk about), so here’s my synopsis, devoid of philosophy.
You can explain the main conclusion of Climate Science in a 10-second sound bite (and that’s if you want the long version).
To refute it, not only takes much, much longer than a sound bite, but requires the listener to learn all kinds of stuff that not only doesn’t entertain him, but requires some intellectual effort. Or her.
That’s why the warmists rule and we don’t.
You remind me of a time when I was in a factory, and we needed to lift an engine out of a fork lift truck so we proposed to sling a chain host from a roof beam, and use that. I was concerned about whether it was strong enough, and being fairly fresh out of college, said ‘we should do some stress calculations before we start, to make sure that beam can take the weight’.
‘NO need’ said the charge hand.
‘Oh’, I said ‘and how exactly did YOU know that’
‘Cos we lifted a much bigger one with it last week’ he said with a broad wink…
WE had a good time together after that. he learnt from me and I learnt from him.
You are of course absolutely right, and accepting what you say, though I never got it so clear in my own mind as you have expressed it, is why we need a different strategy from mere refutation.
Some people need to go through a sort of mental deconstruction though to understand why stuff wont work, before they can get on with stuff that will.
Gnomish is Latin for Trollish, apparently. 🙂
@ur momisugly Willis Eschenbach
Willis. I cant respond to your post directly, because the way the site works wont let us nest the comments that deep, but I looked at your response to my response to your post, and I see where the difficulty lies at least, and it’s this.
You are totally concerned with doing ‘good science’ and the AGWists are by your book, not doing good science. And for you the matter ends there.
I take a more wide angle view. I am interested in that, yes, but I am also interested in what they think constitutes good science, because either they are knowingly doing bad science or they are (by our standards, because in this context I agree 100%) doing bad science because they actually think it is good science.
And to that end I have tried to see if some of the post modern ideas about what is real and what is not, what is meant by good and bad, actually can inform on just how the hell these people can get away with doing what to you and me, is a total travesty of science, with something resembling a straight face.
And beyond that, how can the many many journalists media luvvies, politicians and the like jump on a bandwagon and state with such conviction opinions that they are not qualified to hold, as facts?
I am concerned with pragmatic result to specific problems, and my problem is how to stop the spread of lunacy, and fraud masquerading as scientific fact, an evidence based policies, from damaging an entire generation.
Simply proving that the science is bunk, which it certainly is, makes no difference. They simply say ‘well that’s what a denier would say’ and ‘it’s just your opinion and 97% of people who matter disagree with you’.
We could just wait till the civilized world collapses, because its been taken over by people who simply dont know what they are doing, sure. That is one strategy. But I felt it was worth having a go at another. And that is formulating a way to outwit the liars with the truth.
I suppose the position goes like this. WE know that the knowing liars – the carpetbaggers like Al Gore, who know they are lying and simply dont care, because its just business, and the sheeple deserve it, will only respond to something which directly threatens their interests. If reversing his stance on Climate change gets Al Gore another billion, or the presidency of the United States, whey he will have a Damascene moment swear to God he made an ‘honest mistake’, and become the biggest climate denier in the senate (or wherever he sits).
So these people are for sale. They are scoundrels with power, but they can be coerced and they can be bought, and they will respond to political pressure.
What represents a more intractable problem are the ‘useful idiots’ . By this I mean the sort of half baked intellectuals of a vaguely lefty liberal sort of persuasion, who infest the media, and the more pathetic levels of academia. Wanna be smart people, who see Causes, and Fashionable issues, as being the very thing to make them stand out where their own lack of real talent fails. They aren’t really venal so much as desperate. They fear not being noticed, of losing their jobs, and they sort of comfort themselves and square their consciences by putting aside any lingering doubts and Believing. And they exist in a spectrum from rogue to actual genuine Believer, and the more Believer they are and the less rogue, the more amenable they are to changing beliefs. The key to these people is that they genuinely kowtow to Authority. If you can get Authority to change, these dedicated followers of fashion will shed one set of clothes and don another immediately.
So the key to all this, is to get to Authority, and get it to announce a new message…
And that is why I pent a lot of time looking at the Power of Ideas, in general, not just scientific ones.
How can we get the people who are in charge of things at the moment, to realise that in fact whilst AGW may be a massively useful career boost, at the moment, it could mean that they end up in a world with no electricity and people dying on the streets, which is a problem for them as well. Its not enough to say ‘the science is wrong’ because they won’t understand the proofs anyway. What we need is an emotional counter narratives that shows them how believing in climate change and renewable energy will in the end cost them more than the profits they are making from it now, irrespective of whether its true or not. Because they dont care and cant assess whether its true or not, but they can understand a personal balance sheet.
And to understand the way they tick we have to abandon our own certainties, and pretend we are like them. and our world is ruled by their passions, and judgements, to see where the weaknesses are.
To say ‘I am completely right’ even when its totally demonstrably true, does not win friends and influence people.
To say. ‘I understand that to you the most important things in the world is…..and that thing is threatened by climate change alarmism, because’…is a far far more successful strategy.
Leo Smith March 31, 2016 at 8:44 pm
First, Leo, my thanks for your detailed answer, much appreciated.
I always get nervous when people start acting like they can read my mind … sorry, Leo, but the matter doesn’t “end there” for me. See, I thought you were discussing the science of climate change. Why? Because you said:
So I responded to that … but that does NOT mean the matter ends there for me.
Next, you say:
Funny, most people (including me) say that they are suffering from Noble Cause Corruption. As that is the most common explanation for how climate activists can do what they do, I would have imagined that you would take that explanation as a starting point, and tell us why your theory is superior to the Noble Cause Corruption hypothesis. I note in passing that Noble Cause Corruption explains everything that you want explained—why the do bad science, and why they can do it with a straight face. It also explains the following question of yours:
Seriously? They are JOURNALISTS and POLITICIANS, do you truly expect ethical behavior from either group?
You continue:
That sounds good, Leo … but seriously, you are talking by your own statement above about battling lunacy with truth. So which truth is it that you plan to use to battle lunacy, and how exactly do you plan to do that?
While that would be lovely, getting some agreed upon father figure to tell us the new revelation from on high … I gotta ask what you are imbibing if you actually think that will make a difference. Suppose Cruz were elected tomorrow and announced that from now on the US Gov’t would not support the bogus climate change claims.
Do you truly think that would change peoples minds? Here’s the part you have left out. People would rather admit to being criminals than they would admit to being conned. You could have God herself announce the truth, and half the folks would still not admit that they had been fooled.
How can we get the powerful to realize that their actions are harming the poor?
Well, me being a philosophical simpleton, I talk about the issues. I write posts like this:
And you … you write posts about the philosophy of science.
I can tell you which one I think is more effective … four years ago when I started writing about the effects on the poor of the war on carbon, I was pretty much a lone voice crying in the wilderness. Now, it has entered the general discussion and a lot of people are talking about it. Call me crazy, but I don’t think that posts on the philosophy of science would have had a tenth of the effect of my posts that are actually about the problem itself.
You continue:
My friend, you can’t even figure out what makes me tick. You claim regarding me that:
“You are totally concerned with doing ‘good science’ and the AGWists are by your book, not doing good science. And for you the matter ends there.”
If that were true, then I would not have written all those posts about the question of the poor.
So I gotta say, if your plan is to convince people by figuring out what drives them, it’s not working for me. No surprise, you are not the first person to totally misjudge what I have done and what I think. But it highlights the problem with trying to guess what motivates one person … much less what motivates an entire disparate group of people.
Yes, IF all of the people in that disparate group were motivated by the same thing, and IF we could determine what that thing is, we MIGHT be able to devise a strategy to appeal directly to their weaknesses and avoid their strengths. Seems doubtful, but may be possible.
Now me, I figure every man has to choose where they think their energy is best spent. If you think that going by way of abstruse philosophy and trying to get inside the mind of the average alarmist is the best way to do that, then go for it.
In the meantime, while you scope all that out, I plan to continue my simple cowboy ways, and just attack the problem directly.
My best regards to you,
w.
PS—It would be very helpful if you could boil your argument down to the “elevator speech”. That is the version where you have the length of the average elevator ride to explain your ideas. I would be quite interested in your elevator speech regarding the head post.
Last night at a lecture the speaker quoted a character in a Harry Potter movie. In this essay The Matrix (a movie) is invoked.
If this were like a baseball game I would be one movie away from . . .
I’ve not seen either movie, although I have heard of them. No value judgments, please.
In my mind this raises the question of what percent of a sample group watches movies?
If you haven’t seen the matrix, its probably not something you need to see.
I was just citing it as an example of the indistuinguishability of a a virtual reality from a ‘real’ reality, lacking of some point to stand outside of both, or a means to move from one to the other.
WE can conceive of an infinity of things that MIGHT be true, but cannot be demonstrated to be. Science is in fact a collection of such things carefully selected to have not actually been refuted yet.
AGW is was science except its fallen out of the collection of things that haven’t been refuted. It has been.
Leo – one point – consider this change:
from:
“I was just citing it as an example of the indistuinguishability of a a virtual reality from a ‘real’ reality, lacking of some point to stand outside of both, or a means to move from one to the other.”
to:
…I was just citing it as an example of the indistuinguishability of a “virtual reality” from REALITY, lacking of some point to stand outside of both, or a means to move from one to the other…
“Virtual reality” IS NOT reality. That’s essential. Do you agree?
Also, we can distinguish the two. That’s why we have the two concepts 😉
Another example of mistaken distinctions in conventional language from my field:
“Artificial Intelligence” is a contradiction in terms. AI is better described as Augmented Intelligence as glasses, telescopes and microscopes augment vision. (Thanks to a computer science professor from Florida I once met at a conference.) Intelligence is the product and process of a mind. At a human level it moves from an animal’s mostly perceptual level to a potentially unbounded hierarchy of abstractions. That’s the human difference.
Knowing what reality and intelligence are is an essential foundation for any competent philosophical thinking.
Perhaps you would benefit from reading Ayn Rand’s Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology – her theory of concepts. It establishes the clear and grounded relationship between reality and our world of concepts. It describes in detail, effective and ineffective concept formation. And it describes how to detect the errors as they inevitably creep in as we try to understand reality. It’s a never ending process of learning and verifying – in reality.
In the climate debate, one must:
1) compare mathematical models with reality to establish the respect they deserve;d
2) one must ask what the risk-benefit tradeoff is of various scenarios – is a warmer world better for humanity it it were to come about?
That’s “keeping it real”. And there’s no confusion necessary in this approach to questioning if one is honest about what we know and where we have open questions. I like to say, “Ignorance is not a pejorative, its an opportunity.” Acknowledging ignorance is the beginning of learning.
Yes, Leo Smith, indogerman are agonal.
That’s a gift, called ‘will to survive’. And it’s a burden we’re bound to live with.
Regards – Hans
Very interesting article, Leo–as well as the thoughts of a number of the commenters. I must admit, at some points I read rather rapidly. And, it being now past midnight here in Delaware, I apologize if my writing lacks for clarity or is just off-base. Here are my two-cents:
First, two money quotes from you:
“When I described the function and purpose of what I consider to be Science, what is perhaps startling is that in the end, the only value judgement I applied, or indeed feel I can apply, to it, is that it just works.
And this brings me to a peculiar moral position. Morality, more than physical reality, is a social construct. Moreover its not based on anything beyond humanity. . . .”
I think you are mistaken.
“What is actually the deductible corollary of the Theory of Evolution, is that it only leads to eradication of that which is so counter-survival, that the young of the species do not live long enough to reproduce themselves.”
(I must say I was impressed–jolted into thought–by your “reverse” articulation of the Theory of Evolution)
Morality (Moral-like) and ethical (Ethics-like) behaviors are not confined to humans. It is my understanding that there is now an abundance of evidence that other species engage in proto-altruistic-like and cooperative sharing and protective behaviors that make it more likely that they “will survive long enough to reproduce themselves.”
This is not confined to intra-species interactions, but can transcend species boundaries. For example, bird warning calls are attended to by all the birds and mammals within hearing range. Indeed, I believe there is some evidence that “lower” animals, bacteria, and even plants can communicate and cooperate in manners that improve the likelihood of survival to reproduction.
My take is that the proto-morality utilitarian “Golden Rule” is an “emergent” consequence of evolution. And it happens to “fit” (feel right) because that is how normally (non-pathological) developed humans evolved–shaped like a lock and key. Further, by virtue of man having a brain capable of introspection, written records, etc., human moral codes can outpace evolution–for better or worse.
As an aside. What kind of a metaphysical “social construct,” do you think proto-moral animals (and plants?) operate under?
So, that’s it. Thanks again, for the thoughtful essay.
As an aside. What kind of a metaphysical “social construct,” do you think proto-moral animals (and plants?) operate under?
What are these proto -moral animals?
Organisms that have failed to die out, and pattens of behaviours inherent to the species, that haven’t killed them (yet)?
YOU are investing them with a morality that I would say they simply don’t possess.
Behaviour that appears to be moral is not the same as having a conscious abstract morality.
But then I guess your world view considers that consciousness is ‘merely’ an emergent property of the material world., and is therefore thoroughly unimportant, if not an illusion.
You can choose that view. Is it helpful? Did you choose it knowingly?
I am sure from studying at least my pets, and some other mammals that animals have some sort of awareness of a structured abstract reality, its just miles away from where ours is. In particular they dont have very much language, if any.
But saying they have a morality is a bit of step too far. For me. YMMV
Thank you, Leo, for taking the time to reply to my “aside.”
I realize that the essay is now a day old and will soon be stale if it isn’t already so, but I wanted to respond to your comments. I apologize for not italicizing your words. I haven’t yet learned how–one of the many lacunae in my skill set.
A.
“What are these proto-moral animals?
Organisms that have failed to die out, and patterns of behaviors inherent to the species, that haven’t killed them (yet)?”
Of course not! I assume this wasn’t a deliberate misconstruction in the vein of, “I have no idea what you are talking about,” so in answer, I am referring to the kind of behaviors that are consistent with our concept of what is moral or just–NOT “any old” behavior. I am talking about selfless actions that actually benefit other individuals, or groups, at a cost to the actor. (Of course, in the grand evolutionary scheme of things, these behaviors benefit the “selfish gene,” too, and thus confer a selective advantage)
To be concrete: 1) Human toddlers apparently will spontaneously share candy with other children that do not have candy, rather than hoarding the treats. This occurs before any sophisticated self-concept, and certainly well before any idea of what words like “morality” and its kin mean. This appears to be developmentally (i.e., evolution based) hard-wired. 2) Monkeys (not sure which ones) will vocalize to notify others that they have found a cache of food. Interestingly, if an individual fails to do this, and its subterfuge is discovered, it is punished by the defrauded group members that “play by the rules.” There are consequences to “bad” behavior.
As an interesting side note, I believe the optimum strategy in the “Prisoners Dilemma” scenario is to start by assuming a cooperative stance and then to respond in kind to how the other player acts. This might suggest that morality is, in a sense, mathematically inevitable.
B.
“But then I guess your world view considers that consciousness is ‘merely’ an emergent property of the material world, and is therefore thoroughly unimportant, if not an illusion.
You can choose that view. Is it helpful? Did you choose it knowingly?”
Come on Leo. This detracts from your argument and diminishes you–at least in so far as I read the content and your tone. You are drawing unsupported conclusions and imputing unsupported value judgments. Am I really supposed to thank you for allowing me to choose a view (that, by the way, you have in your own mind selected for me) and then further expecting me to find the two follow-up challenge questions really material and offered in a true spirit to be helpful? I suspect Willis could do a better job here, than I can, but you get the idea.
That said, moving on–and I hope we can.
C.
“I am sure from studying at least my pets, and some other mammals that animals have some sort of awareness of a structured abstract reality, its just miles away from where ours is. In particular they don’t have very much language, if any.”
Really? Well here is some evidence to consider:
I am sure you are aware of Washoe, the chimp that learned to communicate with 350 words of American Sign Language. Koko, a gorilla understands about 1000 words in ASL and 2000 English words. Koko had the cognitive status of a 2-3 year old human child. Corvids are famous for their reasoning abilities. You may recall a recent Internet news article about a parrot that screamed out “Fire, Fire” when the apartment it was living in caught on fire, and thereby saved a number of people from potential loss of life. Parrots are known for their amazing vocabulary and their ability to use the words appropriately to the circumstances. Here is a touching episode about Washoe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washoe_%28chimpanzee%29):
“One of Washoe’s caretakers was pregnant and missed work for many weeks after she miscarried. Roger Fouts recounts the following situation:
People who should be there for her and aren’t are often given the cold shoulder–her way of informing them that she’s miffed at them. Washoe greeted Kat [the caretaker] in just this way when she finally returned to work with the chimps. Kat made her apologies to Washoe, then decided to tell her the truth, signing “MY BABY DIED”. Washoe stared at her, then looked down. She finally peered into Kat’s eyes again and carefully signed “CRY”, touching her cheek and drawing her finger down the path a tear would make on a human (Chimpanzees don’t shed tears). Kat later remarked that one sign told her more about Washoe and her mental capabilities than all her longer, grammatically perfect sentences.”
Using your essay’s argument about Occam’s Razor, the simplest explanation is that the mental, cognitive, and emotional awareness of a structured reality by non-human animals and human children is on a continuum whose elements are one-and-the-same as adult humans.
The concept of inter-subjective reliability; viz., that people can communicate about the physical world and their experiences in a mutually understandable and consistent way, adds further evidence for some kind of a utilitarian reality. Furthermore, the above evidence suggests that not only is there intra-specific “inter-subjective reliability,” but there is a comparable “inter-subjective reliability” across species that “WORKS.” I would suggest that the across species consistency evidence strongly suggests the “reality” of a non-solipsistic, pragmatic shadow reality.
D.
“Behavior that appears to be moral is not the same as having a conscious abstract morality.”
As to the last sentence, I would argue that a “conscious abstract morality” is one end of a spectrum of morality. As pointed out above, some animals and human infants exhibit moral behavior and possess some level of consciousness about the world and their actions. I think the weakness in your bright line distinction between Science versus Morality (= being exclusively human) is that there is, in fact, no bright line that you can point to. When exactly does consciousness “begin” as a human matures? What is “abstract” enough to be considered “abstract”? And at what point does “behavior that appears to be moral” actually become “really” moral? The argument falls apart, like a lot of philosophy, when the definition of terms is examined closely. I think Daniel Dennett’s “intentional stance” may be helpful. It certainly is utilitarian and pragmatic, all of which is consistent to your main thesis.
Another argument against even an unqualified version of “Behavior that appears to be moral is not the same as having a conscious abstract morality,” would be to subject the thesis to the equivalent of the “Turing Test” for consciousness.
E.
“YOU are investing them with a morality that I would say they simply don’t possess.”
As you point out in your essay, Science is what works. And, Science has been exceedingly successful in its endeavors. Indeed, in the approximately three and a half centuries since Newton’s Principia, unimaginable progress has resulted. Science has never “claimed” to be complete. Given its success in its relatively short modern existence, and the unlimited future, I see no reason to summarily dismiss the idea that there are not valid scientific explanations for morality that transcend human exclusivity.
That being said, your argument, “YOU are investing them with a morality that I would say they simply don’t possess,” is–without more– an Argument from Personal Incredulity. Such ex cathedra pronouncements are a species of logical fallacy closely analogous to arguments based on appeals to authority.
F.
In conclusion, once again, thank you for your response to my “aside.” I hope I have given you some rationale for my main point; that the separation between Science and (Mankind only) Morality is unnecessary.
Regards
Robert
“When all are wrong, all are right”
—French aristocrtat
Leo,
“And that is why we still have appendices. They haven’t killed us. Yet. Mostly.”
Check the Wiki, I suggest, and you will find that’s just an old “Evolutionist” yarn, and it is now believed to have several important functions.
” Also, a few years ago I was also involved in some online arguments with Creationists who declared that Creationism and Intelligent Design was equally valid a science as say Physics.”
Let’s be realistic, and say Evolutionism.
I think a lot of you are missing the forest for the tree huggers. Today, for much of the population, truth and reality are overrated. Today people can all be rock stars, geniuses, knights in shining armor, or whatever they want simply by believing it. Belief is everything now and science and truth can barely penetrate. Most everybody wants to believe they are important, and the best way to do this is to take on the mantle of “the savior”! First it was “save the trees”, then “save the whales”, then “save the rainforests”, bigger and better until Al Gore gave the people “SAVE THE WORLD!” Now every ignorant, lazy, idealist can believe they are personally saving the whole planet by simply complaining about somebody else. They are ideological warriors who demand applause and a pat on the back, and being warriors, know that they are nothing without a war, and so will not be dissuaded from their beliefs no matter how much science, logic, reason, or facts you throw at them. They have no plan to solve the problem because the war would end and they would have nothing to save. So the invented problem must be perpetuated at all costs. Ironically the masses are building windmills as delusionally as Don Quixote fought them. And their minions applaud them for this as the war goes on. To paraphrase Voltaire: “if there were no climate change, it would be necessary to invent it.”
I’ve always found the Alarmists to come in four basic varieties or a combo of them:
A. The Malthusians – constantly whine about human population, want to kill off a few billion people, mainly the poor in other nations, never their own.
B. The Militant Vegans – always whining about methane and effects of animal husbandry on the climate, want us all to revert to mindless herbivores, never tell us what they would have happen to the billions upon billions of domesticated livestock once we stop feeding them.
C. The Eco-Communists – always whining about capitalism, but refuse to see that even democratic socialist governments use capitalism as the cornerstone of their economies. Have no alternative to offer.
D. The Renewables Fetishists – always whining about fossil fuels, refusing to accept that petroleum is the underpinning of all modern civilization or that “renewables” are a pathetic source of electricity production
All love to revel in apocolyptic doomsday scenarios that validate their own fantasies. All are scientifically illiterate and ignorant. All react instantly to clickbait headlines of doom and gloom with whinings about their favorite hate object.
And then there are the ‘Activists’, who will jump on any and every cause that comes along. Why? Because it makes them feel good about themselves? Because they think their duty is to right every claimed ‘wrong’? Because all the other Activists are on that particular bandwagon? Maybe all of the above.
The Activists are the people who are most easily exploited by the leaders of movements, the Algores, Bill McKibbens, Maurice Strongs . . . going right back to Vladimir Lenin: ‘Useful Idiots’, he called them.
/Mr Lynn
Hoyt., I think you have arrived at a place I have also arrived at, and that is not to be Baffled By Bull***t as the saying goes, but to see what is REALLY going on, or at least a useful view on what is going on, is that this is all part of a larger social phenomenon which may be something to do with the decline of religion and the onwards march of Marxist dialectical materialism and other such nonsense.
People simply dont know their place in the world any more. The success of Science, based as it is on a world-view that posits an uncaring amoral mechanistic universe as its starting point, has led to the erroneous conclusion that because Science works, therefore that view of the world is a final complete and indeed correct one.
The cultural Marxists have leapt into this void, and generated a ‘humanistic’ ethos based of politically correct values, which is totally at odds with the atheism inherent in Marxism, to the point where one wonders if indeed the construction of politically correct liberal humanistic values is in fact a deliberate ploy of the Marxists, or as I have seen it said. “if religion is the opium of the people, Marxism is its crack cocaine”.
People yearn – some people – for certainty, even if its not the certainty of Truth, the certainty that comes from being one of the ‘97% of ‘ etc. etc.,.
They used to feel, and be told, that their lives were paths, upon which they travelled, resisting temptation and being as good as they could, with the promise of eternal salvation. Today, their lives are utterly meaningless.
Leftism and rightism gives their lives shape and purpose. And meaning. “A working class hero, is something to be”.
And if that adoption of a touchy feely world-view that gives them back the self esteem they lost when someone told that that not only did God not love them any more, he didn’t actually exist, and they were pathetic for believing that he did, means rejecting the scientific world view, with its total absence of any moral or religious aspects, why then, that is to them a small price to pay. If there is one thing you find in Leftist spew, its is ‘Cary, Shary, Equally’ its all about self esteem, how you feel, how much of a victim you are, what terrible things they have done to you, and how by all organising together and singing kumbaya, and sitting down where someone wants to build as nuclear power plant, the world will somehow magically become a better place and they will be loved, if not by God, but by the State. Big Brother, Your Glorious Leader is watching out for you, and he Just Loves you..
And that is exactly why I wrote my stuff. Because ‘science works’ doesn’t mean the axioms on which it is based are true, or the whole story.
If you need to Believe to feel better about yourself, go ahead and Believe. Its not inconsistent with science ultimately, as long as you realise that the two views are both partial.
Personally, as a former dog owner,. I go with the dogs. Up in the morning, new One True Stick to Fetch, who cares if God exists or if he is Dog Shaped, the world is there to be enjoyed and experienced, or simply slept through, so wag our tails and WUFF! with joy at the sheer unutterable lunacy of it and the total pleasure in being doggy shaped.
You can learn a lot of philosophy, from dogs.
Yes Leo, I think you’ve described the modern world much as I see it. In my opinion there’s a lot of people that are no more complicated than a dog. Why does a dog chase cars? Because he has a different world view? Because he has a unique philosophy? Because he is mired in self delusion? No, it just makes him feel like a big dog. Why does a person hate fossil fuels? It just makes him feel like a big man.
Why is it always the “intellectual Left” and the disparaging connotation of the “Religious Right”, as if the two are mutually exclusive?
By the way, science isn’t Truth. Science is, in my humble opinion, merely a tool to open a window onto the world of the unknown. What we do with it then falls into that whole argument about our individual social constructs.
“‘Reality as a Social Construct’. This is taught to every good PPE.”
Having two-thirds of a PPE degree (the P&P), unless I missed that class…. Sorry, ‘training’… The untrained philosopher seems to be speaking some kind of a priori here.
Of course some fall victim to a radical kind of relativism that would rule out ‘truth’ and the such like, erm, a priori. But it seems unlikely to me that those that do sink into such a postmodern funk have taken much real interest in philosophy, as much as enjoy what such a radical wildcard does for them. Like having dice with only sixes… Everyone’s a winner.
Rather, “science” seems to have become an anti-philosophy, since we’re all, per Lytoard, “incredul[ous] towards metanarratives” now. The eschewing of philosophy — and even ‘ideology’ — much more than eschewing ‘science’ as such, then, might begin to give us a better understanding of environmentalism’s ascendency. In this respect, I don’t think Leo departs much from Rupert Read, or the problems of ‘postmodernism’ as he wants to. Read is inconsequential, as Leo rightly notes, though I doubt he is esteemed, since environmentalism has no real need for philosophers or even thinkers. He is useful though, for the glimpse into what passes for green ‘thinking’ that he offers. My attempt to make sense of Read is at http://www.climate-resistance.org/2014/06/why-do-environmentalists-hate-liberty.html — I think the more interesting question is ‘Why Do Environmentalists Hate Liberty?’, than how to do science better.
A good indication that Leo has overstated the influence of the idea of ‘reality as a social construct’ is in his own debates with “Creationists who declared that Creationism and Intelligent Design was equally valid a science as say Physics”. The thing to note is that creationists of the past would rest their argument on the authority of the Bible, not claim the authority of “science”. The word of God is not sufficient, it seems, for today’s religionists — the claims of the religion being in question as a ‘social construct’, with science being, curiously, the transcendental method.
I’ve been saying forever: The oligarchs have to bribe Congress, but you warmists settle for one small perfect moral plum– which you know is an illusion. You know that this Senate report http://www.epw.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/6ce8dd13-e4ab-4b31-9485-6d2b8a6f6b00/chainofenvironmentalcommand.pdf
means that the oligarchs are paying the activists to invent outrageous lies. You know that by accepting the lies you are turning the environment and the planet over to those who care the least for them. You know their motive is to control global energy and development. That people will die because of it. But the illusion of telling yourself “I am saving the planet,” is more important to you.
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They’ve been too long on the fluoride that reduces IQ, too many vaccinations with adjuvants, too dumbed down at school, too isolated socially. Our only hope is to get rid of the oligarchs, since there’s no regaining control of the media while they rule.
They’re giving one-day-old babies shots now. They’re teaching them this CO2 rot in GRADE school. Dear lord what will the next generation be like?