From the Department of Retarded Economics and the Pacific Gas and Electric company comes this unbelievable offer that asks if I want to pay more for electricity to be part of the “in” green sustainability crowd. No, really. I thought this was an early April Fools joke, but instead, it’s an actual solicitation to fools.
Excerpts:
Here’s the cost:
I’m currently paying about 14 cents per kWh, so with this new plan to help me be sustainable and part of the cool kids crowd, I can pay up to 17.1 cents per kilowatt hour, so that I can ease my conscience that the electricity I use is from “clean California sunshine”. Good luck sorting out those clean from dirty electrons as they flow through the grid to my office.
I’m just speechless. There’s a term used in science: “Not even wrong” its not only that, but weapons grade stupidity. No wonder so many businesses are fleeing the state with this sort of madness afoot.
Full disclosure, I already have solar on my home. It’s my third solar project, and not a one of them had anything to do with sustainability, but trying to keep escalating power costs under control.
UPDATE: here is the full letter
I am not sure if this is where the weapons grade stupidity begins, or where it ends.
After all, all these green power schemes have been voted on and passed as ballot initiatives. So, “We The People” actually voted for this. I am sure WUWT could put together a hilarious/horrifying post documenting all the ballot Propositions regarding “clean energy” in CA which have been approved in the last 20 years or so.
Here in the Peoples Democratic Republic of MA, we had a ballot initiative for RGGI (Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative) which passed handily a few years back. (70% approved, can that possibly be right?) Last year, MA residents were shocked with a 40% electric rate increase. I would very helpfully offer to explain the rate increase. When asked, I would take great joy in saying “you voted for it”.
Shock
Anger
Confusion
I would then helpfully explain “You did not really believe all that rot about “Green Jobs” and “Sustainability”, did you?” And especially “Did you not see what amounts to a new tax on you electric bill coming straight at you?”
Even now, say “RGGI” to the average voter, and get an iconic Dumb Look back in return.
Weapons grade, indeed.
In a more perfect world, the extra costs would only be mandatory for those who voted for the program. Instead, the stupidity of the Low Information Voters is inflicted on all of us.
This is one reason the Founding Fathers created the United States as a Constitutional Republic, they were horrified by a pure democracy.
If it ain’t economic, it ain’t sustainable.
yes.
Children ( liberals ) like Wagen actually think there is a difference between ” Green ” electrons and ” Dirty ” electrons….and his Smart Meter can tell the difference ! D’oh !!
Seek, and knowledge will be yours.
I am sure you understand a green photon at wavelength = 440 nm well enough. (such a lovely shade)
So what is a green electron, you ask?
Well, an electron with a Compton wavelength = 440 nm has an energy of 28 eV, not altogether that energetic.
Now You Know: what a green electron is.
SCIENCE!
Because you didn’t put a ” Sarc ” after that, Wagen will now copy and paste that as PROOF that he is right !!
Based on one of his comments, I’m not sure Wagen has a real tight grip on what an electron actually is…or does for him.
As the woman said – “you can ignore reality, but you can not ignore the consequences of ignoring reality”. In this case stratospheric electricity prices. Solar power was supposed to be much cheaper because the fuel (sunlight) is free.
+100
So is coal…all you have to do is dig it up and haul it to the place you are burning it.
I have solar and was asked to join a similar scheme to which I did after they put a device on my meter that filters the green volts from the red volts ,they did say they had 37 percent confidence level that I would only consume the green volts .
…Yes, green meaning ” cash in their pockets ” !
I’m going to agree with Ben from Houston above. I see this as honest and possibly a way for the utility to let its customers know that “green” costs more money all while seeming to go along with the smart kids. It may have a huge effect in a way that greens might not anticipate.
Seconded, with compliments.
+100
All the utilities have been offering the opportunity to purchase “green” energy at an additional price for years. You can buy certified green energy (Green-E certified). The cute part is the electricity you buy can be generated anywhere. Anthony’s green electrons could be generated east of the Appalachians. The renewable energy generators market their electricity. They sell it to anyone who wants to be green: colleges, utilities, companies. The purchaser is quite unlikely to get any of the green electrons, but he will feel just so much better. How else, other than scams like this, can the green energy companies survive making electricity that costs more than the typical market price of dirty electricity.
…Wagen, above, believes you can separate ” GREEN ” electrons from ” DIRTY ” electrons …unfortunately, he has not figured out what electrons are yet !
I’ve talked about electrons in chemistry for 50 years and have been in the (green)power industry for 15. I’ve yet to see an electron, but I have great faith that they exist. 🙂
Anthony,
Whoosh!
Yeah, because free market solutions which give consumer choice to invest in alternatives is SO much dumber than gummint imposed taxation.
Wake up.
“Your business is powered by clean Californian Sunshine”…..even at night!
What sort of morons do they think people are? The green bit is the money in their pocket.
In Texas, one local utility offers greatly discounted electrical rates for people willing to use power in the wee hours, to use the otherwise useless wind power they a required to buy. At least Pacific Graft and Extortion is openly offering a price increase for fools.
This scam has been going on in Ontario, Canada for years.
https://www.bullfrogpower.com/green-energy/how-it-works/
@ur momisugly clipe, March 14 5:03 pm, Now I know why Ontario Hydro ( and the whole province) is such deep KaKa, I just cannot believe why what used to be the richest most diverse part of the country have thrown it into chaos. The socialistic ( don’t be fooled by them calling themselves “liberals’ they are anything but) have destroyed the basic fundamental part of their economy
The manufactoring that used to be the main base for Ontario got priced out of the economy by just this sort of scheme. It just got way to expensive to compete. and instead of continuing with expansion of the Hydro system with more capacity they voted just about every Hydro project out.
Canada, as much as Ottawa touts that their economy is one of the best on the Planet, it far from it thanks to policies like this. Right now they might offer an option but 3-4 years from now it will become mandatory because of it’s (non existent) “success”.
Well… I have for years only purchased electrons with the “right handed spin”… You see all my motors turn in the clockwise direction (when viewed from the properly selected viewing perspective). I have been returning all “left handed spin” electrons to the power company via the neutral conductor. Maybe they have figured out how to resell them ??
I did offer to pay the power company for only the electrons I retained on premises, but they declined….
/sarc off
“Solar Electrons” = Weapons Grade Stupidity for sure…
Cheers, KevinK.
Rocky Mountain Power has done this for years. https://www.rockymountainpower.net/env/bsre/po.html
I have asked about how the power line separates “clean” energy from dirty energy, but no one has been forthcoming with an answer. I guess that means my original belief that this is just a way to get more money for the power company was correct.
“I have asked about how the power line separates “clean” energy from dirty energy, but no one has been forthcoming with an answer.”
See my post later at March 15, 2016 at 2:15 am
I think this is entirely appropriate. For those people who believe all the hype then here is a chance for them to put their money towards solving the “problem”. Far better that those who think using solar will make a difference to pay the extra bit than the those of us who don’t believe it is a problem or those who cannot afford any more.
This has been an option in many places at different times. Importantly I have never seen any suggestion that many people sign up for the programs. If so many people are so sure we are doomed that seems odd. Of course “Think globally, act locally” is only a slogan and not a call to action if in fact it costs money.
This scam has been going on for years here in Canada.
“Any location can be bullfrogpowered with green electricity and green natural gas, including home and business spaces that are owned, leased or shared.
Bullfrog Power does not inject the green electricity or green natural gas directly into your home or business.
Bullfrog’s generators put 100% green electricity or 100% green natural gas onto the respective energy system on your behalf. We ensure the energy going onto the grid or pipeline for you is from clean, green sources.
Homes and businesses that currently receive energy bills will continue to receive the bills for the cost of conventional electricity or natural gas. You will also receive a separate bill from Bullfrog for the additional cost of bullfrogpowering your home or business.
If you do not receive an energy bill (e.g., renters whose electricity costs are included in their rent), you will begin receiving a bill from Bullfrog for the greening of your energy.”
https://www.bullfrogpower.com/green-energy/how-it-works/
Amongst the usual suspects.
clipe commented: “…. Bullfrog for the greening of your energy…..”
I thought you were being sarcastic until I clicked on the link. I can see where the type of people that pay into this scam are the same ones that are still waiting for their check from the inheritance of the Nigerian diplomat that couldn’t get the money out of the country when he died.
The biggest radio station in Canada (Newstalk 1010 CFRB) advertised this sc…scheme.
http://bellmediaradioplus.ca/newsTags.php?str=Bullfrog%20Power
Mod(s). Am I in the penalty box?
[Reply: No. Sometimes moderators take breaks at the same time. If your comment has a word or link that puts it in hold, one of us needs to get back and approve it. ~mod]
Ta
And, no doubt, it will soon be: “Ta da!” 🙂
Clipe — I don’t see another post by yours, yet, so I’m assuming you hit the spam bin. I’ve wondered before if I was put out in the WUWT hall with my nose in the corner, too. Turned out it was one of those “bad” words. Or, a link too many in my comment. Hang in there. I’ll bet your comment shows up. Sometimes can take over an hour at times when mods are busy with their own lives.
I can’t imagine you being put in the “penalty box,” for your comments are always (IIRC) above-board and you are known for your fine insights. I think a “regular” like you is cut a bit of slack and would only have a “bad word” SNIPPED, not be put into m0deration hold. (not sure about “m0deration,” heh).
Well, all this was to just sort of come alongside and keep you company while you wait. I feel quite certain that all is well!
Janice
🙂
Well! Ta da! And the word was “sc@m.”
Ta Janice, next time I’ll call this sc@m a scamzuki.
Ta Janice, My first reply to you is back in the bin because I spelled sc@mzuki wrong.
lol — I’ll watch for it, Clipe. TTFN. 🙂
Hey Janice, thanks for explaining ( and the mods as well) how that can happen, appreciated ( btw how are you and your four legged partner ? I hope things are better.)
Hi, Asybot,
Thank you for asking. I hope you see this. We three (2 German Shepherds and I who are, btw, my babies… I need to start a private detective business and then they could really do their thing and be my true partners — Investigations and Surveillance (and Yelling — good at yelling, heh)) are well. Still in sort of dire straits, same living circumstances, but, we have plenty to eat! 🙂 So, things are still very hard and have not changed, but, God has a plan. To the horizon, the scenery is bleak, but…. we can only see about 2.9 miles… God can see beyond the horizon, to what He has planned! 🙂
I hope you got that TV working and that all is well with you and your family.
Thank you, so much, for your kind concern.
Take care,
Janice
P.S. If you see this, please acknowledge — thanks!
btw: the time where WUWT is headquartered is now, 8:50am, lol.
Janice, Hey thanks for the reply, everything ok sorry I am a little late. Glad to hear the “family” is well, ” okay.”
I like it and think its brilliant assuming of course they sell some of this. Lets face it PG&E will be able to meet some of its federal mandates easier, not charge customers who don’t want to pay more, and the customers that do pay more have a ready made “green tag” to hang on their product for their customers to pay them back. Good marketing!
People pay for what they value. The company is offering something that some people may think is worth paying for. As well, the company is forced to pay a premium for solar energy and this is a way of offsetting that cost . it lessens the financial burden of green subsidies on other customers
This appears to me to be he result of a sensible business analysis. People who are skeptical of solar subsidies should applaud it since it keeps money in their pockets.
TAG,
Econ isn’t your strong point, is it?
TAG,
Exactly!
In previous threads, we have often read exhortations along the lines of “Well, if you think it’s such a good idea, you pay for it!” A sentiment I share wholeheartedly.
This seems to be a perfect instance of that approach. I don’t understand why anyone would go for it, but voluntary carbon credits had their day in the sun, too.
Can’t wait to hear what the “sensible business analysis” looks like.
A sensible business analysis would bring out the fact that an offer like this would be profitable. The only cost is for advertising and administration. People give them money for the assurance that the electricity they use will come from solar installations. The electricity actually comes form the usual sources and the company gets more money by just issuing a meaningless assurance.
I read that letter and immediately smelled the aroma of snake oil. Filled with the heady effects of alcohol, devoid of any medicinal benefit.
This whole country seems to have contracted a bad case of the stupids.
@J. W. Garrett, more along the line of a case of severe idiocy ( laced with a side effect of sc@m -oligy.
The largest electricity provider in New Hampshire had a program like this for several years. They eventually dropped it, saying that few customers had signed up.
It starts with an offer; the ultimatum comes later.
Remember the “mandatory voluntary compliance” with Carter administration energy saving regulations?
Exactly.
I recall in my yoof a cartoon of characters flying, yes, flying east to west over the USA. The entire journey from east to west, up to the CA border, the states looked dark and dank with storms and rain. Then the plane approached CA. That state was bathed in sunshine and was brilliant in colour, no storms, no rain. Gotta be true aye?
Yup. Just like Oz (as in The Wizard of). B&W in Kansas… IN LIVING COLOR in Oz… where a great and powerful wizard made stuff happen!
“Good luck sorting out those clean from dirty electrons as they flow through the grid to my office.” It is a simple accounting exercise. The amount you pay for renewables has to be matched by the renewable energy produced. Luck has nothing to do with it.
Yes..it allows them to buy the more expensive power….
Geoffrey
Please tell me you do not honestly believe “…It is a simple accounting exercise. The amount you pay for renewables has to be matched by the renewable energy produced. Luck has nothing to do with it…”.
Because if you actually believe this, I may do great harm to myself as I roll on the floor, laughing out loud.
I am sorry. How do you know you are getting solar and not regular electricity?
I have no problem with ASKING for people to give more money. Perhaps the liberal socialists will take the hint and GIVE more taxes voluntarily to the IRS and stop pestering the rest of us to fund their pipe dreams.
The solar electrons look different…
What you get is grid electricity. The grid could have inputs from many different sources, coal, nuclear, oil, biomass, solar pv, solar thermal, wind, tidal, geothermal, hydro etc. If you want renewables to be a larger part of the mix, under the scheme in the article you pay more and the supplier calculates how many watts you use and makes sure that same number of watts is being supplied by the renewable inputs. They build more solar panels for example.
So what you seem to be saying is that my neighbor and I are getting the same electricity except that I will pay more and so I can feel good about myself. I’d rather feel good about myself by taking my son to a hockey game. Go Bolts!
To Tom in Florida – No, Tom, I just explained how it works, I did not give any value judgement. How you feel about yourself is up to you.
” the supplier calculates how many watts you use and makes sure that same number of watts is being supplied by the renewable inputs.”
Sheesh! How gullible do do you have to be !