Are Jagdish Shukla and the #RICO20 Guilty of Racketeering?

Guest opinion by Marlo Lewis, Jr, CEI

Jagadish Shukla, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA Edward Maibach, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA Paul Dirmeyer, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA Barry Klinger, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA Paul Schopf, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA David Straus, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA Edward Sarachik, University of Washington, Seattle, WA Michael Wallace, University of Washington, Seattle, WA Alan Robock, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ Eugenia Kalnay, University of Maryland, College Park, MD William Lau, University of Maryland, College Park, MD Kevin Trenberth, National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO T.N. Krishnamurti, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL Vasu Misra, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL Ben Kirtman, University of Miami, Miami, FL Robert Dickinson, University of Texas, Austin, TX Michela Biasutti, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY Mark Cane, Columbia University, New York, NY Lisa Goddard, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY Alan Betts, Atmospheric Research, Pittsford, VT
Jagadish Shukla, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA, Edward Maibach, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA, Paul Dirmeyer, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA, Barry Klinger, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA , Paul Schopf, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA, David Straus, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Edward Sarachik, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, Michael Wallace, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, Alan Robock, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ
Eugenia Kalnay, University of Maryland, College Park, MD, William Lau, University of Maryland, College Park, MD, Kevin Trenberth, National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO, T.N. Krishnamurti, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL
Vasu Misra, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL, Ben Kirtman, University of Miami, Miami, FL, Robert Dickinson, University of Texas, Austin, TX, Michela Biasutti, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY, Mark Cane, Columbia University, New York, NY, Lisa Goddard, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY, Alan Betts, Atmospheric Research, Pittsford, VT

Controversy continues to swirl around the September 1 letter from 20 climate scientists to President Barack Obama, Attorney General Loretta Lynch, and White House science adviser John Holdren requesting a RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) investigation of “the fossil fuel industry and their supporters.” The scientists allege that the aforementioned interests “knowingly deceived the American people about the risks of climate change, in order to forestall America’s response to climate change.” In May, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) called for a RICO investigation of “fossil fuel companies and their allies.” The scientists “strongly endorse” Sen. Whitehouse’s proposal.

What boggles the mind is not that 20 climate scientists would attempt to stifle debate, drive the market out of the marketplace of ideas, and punish those who do not worship at the altar of “consensus.” There’s no shortage of “progressive” intolerance in these times. Using RICO to silence opponents is fairly tame compared to environmental activist Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.’s demand that fossil-fuel executives be tried for treason (the usual punishment for which is death).

What’s noteworthy about the RICO 20 is the scientists’ lack of self-awareness—their inability to judge themselves by criteria they invoke to condemn others. They have no clue how easily they can be hoist on their own petard.

What is it, exactly, that fossil-fuel interests conspire to hide from Congress and the public, according to the RICO 20?

The stability of the Earth’s climate over the past ten thousand years contributed to the growth of agriculture and therefore, a thriving human civilization. We are now at high risk of seriously destabilizing the Earth’s climate and irreparably harming people around the world, especially the world’s poorest people.

Well, the “stability of the Earth’s climate over the past 10,000 years” is not all it’s cracked up to be. The planet has been through three cycles of cooling and warming in the past 2,600 years, and experienced a major cooling event 8,200 years ago (see pp. xiv-xv of this book). In addition, substantial evidence indicates that humanity suffered in cold periods and prospered in warm periods. But let that pass.

The core issue in the global warming debate is not whether climate change risks exist but how much is really known about them (EPA’s climate change impacts report, for example, is rife with flimflam) and whether the usual set of “climate solutions” would actually make the world a better place or would instead be a cure worse than the alleged disease.

The RICO 20—and indeed all educated climate campaigners—have to know several key facts they never mention in their advocacy campaigns:

(1) Affordable, reliable, scalable carbon-based energy has made, and continues to make, indispensable contributions to human health and well-being. Over the past 250 years, global average life expectancy more than doubled, global per capita GDP increased nearly eightfold, and global population increased more than sevenfold. Those positive trends, which are the best overall indicators of human health and welfare, are strongly correlated with rising carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from fossil fuels. Fossil energy-supported economic development has vastly improved the health, welfare, and sustainability of the human species.

(2) Among the many benefits of an energy-rich (chiefly fossil-fueled) civilization is decreasing vulnerability to climate-related risks. Historically, drought was the most lethal form of extreme weather, as it directly limits access to food and water. In the 1920s, drought killed an estimated 472,000 people worldwide. Since then roughly 90% of all industrial CO2 emissions in history entered the atmosphere, and the world warmed about 0.8°C. If fossil-fueled development were unsustainable, drought-related mortality would be skyrocketing. Instead, deaths and death rates related to drought have declined by 99.8% and 99.9%, respectively.

The chief factors responsible for that stunning progress were a host of fossil energy-supported technologies such as tractors, harvesters, irrigation pumps, motorized transport, communications networks, fertilizers, pesticides, refrigeration, and plastics. Emergency relief programs also play an important role, but they depend on the economic surpluses and technological capabilities of energy-rich societies.

In sum, as energy scholar Alex Epstein observes, fossil-fueled development has made Earth’s climate dramatically more livable.

(3) Globally, poverty remains the leading cause of preventable disease and premature death. A key factor hindering poverty eradication, as well as a major source of indoor air pollution, which kills an estimated 3.5 million people per year, is energy poverty. Even today, more than one billion people have no access to electricity and billions more have too little energy to support development.

(4) So-called “climate stabilization” targets cannot be met without raising energy prices in industrial countries and restricting access to fossil fuels even—indeed, especially—in developing countries, which are experiencing rapid emissions growth as they industrialize. The chart below, courtesy of Stephen Eule of the U.S. Chamber’s Institute for 21st Century Energy, shows what industrial and developing countries must do to reduce global CO2 emissions 60% below 2010 levels by 2050, as proposed by the European Union in the COP 21 climate treaty negotiations.

Even if industrial countries magically reduce their emissions to zero by 2050, developing countries would still have to cut their current CO2 emissions by 35% for the world to meet the 60-by-50 target. If, less unrealistically, industrial countries reduce their emissions by 80%, developing countries would have to cut their current emissions almost in half. Nobody knows how developing countries could conquer poverty over the next 35 years while reducing fossil fuel consumption 35% to 48% below current levels.

Thus, to paraphrase the RICO 20, climate policies pose a “high risk of seriously destabilizing the global economy and harming people around the world, especially the world’s poorest people.”

As the RICO 20 must also know, advertisements for pharmaceutical products routinely warn of unpleasant, even fatal, side effects such as thoughts of suicide, reduced ability to fight infections, and increased risk of heart attack, stroke, and cancer. Only snake oil salesmen peddle risk-free remedies. Yet our climate physicians carry on as if nothing could possibly go wrong with a global treaty putting politicians and bureaucrats in charge of planning the world’s energy future.

Could such behavior have anything to do with the RICO 20’s financial stake in climate policy? The vast majority of climate research dollars comes from the very agencies whose power, prestige, budgets, and/or staff would increase dramatically in a carbon-constrained world. Conversely, the agencies’ power and importance might decline in a more skeptical political climate.

RICO 20 Ringleader Jagdish Shukla, a professor at George Mason University, has been a longtime beneficiary of agency-administered, taxpayer-funded largesse. Shukla, his wife, and daughter reportedly received $900,000 in 2014 alone from GMU and federal grants to the Institute for Global Environment and Society (IGES), an organization he founded and directs.

That however appears to be just the tip of an iceberg. IGES reportedly received $63 million in federal grants since 2001, accounting for 98% of its budget. Five other signers of the RICO 20 letter are also GMU professors, three signers teach at Columbia University, two at the University of Maryland, and two at Florida State. A pretty cozy affair. If planned in cahoots with their funders, it might even be called a conspiracy. My CEI colleague Christopher Horner has filed requests for public records with the various universities to obtain the signers’ statements of economic interest.

Simple logic suggests what that interest is. House Science Chairman Lamar Smith on October 1 wrote a letter to Professor Shukla, which states:

IGES appears to be almost fully funded by taxpayer money while simultaneously participating in partisan political activity by requesting a RICO investigation of companies and organizations that disagree with the Obama administration on climate change.

Criminalizing policy differences is a bad idea. By their own criteria, however, the RICO 20 are ripe for a RICO investigation. Prosecutors in such a case would ask: “How much money did you receive in federal grants while you knowingly deceived Congress and the public about the perils of restricting global access to affordable energy?”


Note: shortly after publication, at the request of the author, paragraph 5 and the second to last paragraph had a text formatting change applied to indicate they were quotes.

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David Ball
October 15, 2015 8:06 pm

What bothers me the most is these folks accuse skeptics of being in the payroll of big oil or some such bullsh**t, and they themselves line their pockets with ill gotten gains.
I can only speak for what I know personally, but I suspect that most skeptics are eeking out a living asking only for honest science. No wads of dough laying around Dr, Ball’s house, or I suspect Ant*ny’s either, or Bob Tisdale’s, or Dr. Roy Spencer’s, or Willis Eschenbach’s, or Richard Lindezen’s.You see where I am going with this?
Help Ant*ny out. Hit the donate button if you are able.

October 15, 2015 8:35 pm

” what industrial and developing countries must do to reduce global CO2 emissions 60% below 2010 levels by 2050″. The idea that emissions reduction will have an impact on warming rates is not supported by the data from 1850 to 2014. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2662870

AntonyIndia
October 15, 2015 8:40 pm

The world map (figure 3) showing energy poverty is important because most of these 3.6 billion people have no access to Internet. They don’t know what is being decided about them in COP21 in Paris or elsewhere and therefore cannot protest. Even if the knew or understood, they couldn’t express themselves in English on the Net. They do want reliable electricity for sure.
This who CO2 emission reduction debate is very one sided also because of this.

marlolewisjr
Reply to  AntonyIndia
October 16, 2015 12:53 pm

Good point, and one I’ve not seen elsewhere. Warming advocates say don’t worry, be happy, the USA and other industrial countries will pay you $100 billion a year by 2020 in climate assistance and, perhaps, many billions more in “reparations and damages” funds. Alas, climate aid is more likely to be another dependency trap than a real stimulus to self-sustaining economic growth.

marlolewisjr
Reply to  marlolewisjr
October 16, 2015 1:03 pm

And that’s assuming industrial nations will actually pony up that much money. Don’t bet on it!

Science or Fiction
Reply to  AntonyIndia
October 18, 2015 9:21 am

Good Point. The precautionary principle should urge United Nations to suspend actions based on their climate theory. More expensive energy sources is bound to increase general costs by a mechanism called cost push inflation caused by supply side cost increase (e.g. energy) . Well paid bureaucrats, popes and presidents will not be affected – poor people will. There is an enormous amount of people in the world who will be negatively affected by increased energy costs and cost increases in general.
“The precautionary principle or precautionary approach to risk management states that if an action or policy has a suspected risk of causing harm to the public … , in the absence of scientific consensus that the action or policy is not harmful, the burden of proof that it is not harmful falls on those taking an action.” (Wikipedia)
By its charter United Nations is supposed to:
– To maintain international peace and security…
– To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples …
– To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
– To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.
By their climate theory and actions thereof, United Nations is way out of line with their intended purpose. United Nations bases their recommended actions on the recommendations by Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. The fundamental flaw is that IPCC is based on unscientific principles and also biased by its principles.
(ref. Principles governing IPCC work):
The following is a reasonable interpretation of Paragraph 1:
“The panel shall concentrate its activities on actions in support of stabilizing the greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere at a level that would prevent dangerous anthropogenic interference with the climate system”
Hence, paragraph 1 demonstrates that IPCC is biased by design.
Paragraph 10 :
“In taking decisions, and approving, adopting and accepting reports, the Panel, its Working Groups and any Task Forces shall use all best endeavors to reach consensus”
Obviously, consensus is a very central value for the Panel. This can be regarded as a dangerous value to endorse – groupthink is a well known cause of unsound decisions – and argument by consensus is a well known logical fallacy. Hence, to strive for consensus is a very unscientific approach.
United Nations should cease acting in breach with its charter on the basis of a flawed climate theory.

indefatigablefrog
October 15, 2015 9:52 pm

How else are a bunch of brain-dead simpletons going to extract millions from the public purse.
You have to give them some credit, they found a niche (and a niche for the niece) for brain-dead simpletons.
And the public purse was willing to oblige.
Invent a bogus game-changing wind-turbine, that won’t really work,
And apply for a grant from the DOE.
They will fall for any old crap.
Give them a number and ask them to write lots of zeroes after it.

Carbon500
October 15, 2015 10:46 pm

‘Pre-industrial’ CO2 levels (i.e. prior to 1750AD) were 280 molecules in a million (ppm) of all atmospheric gases (water vapour excluded).
Currently, we have 401 ppm of CO2.
That’s a 43% increase in CO2.
Looked at another way, currently we have 121 CO2 molecules per million more in the atmosphere today.
Despite this, all the fuss is about fraction of a degree increases.
Where is the dangerous warming we’ve heard so much about?

Ron
Reply to  Carbon500
October 16, 2015 1:14 am

So approximately 1 C02 molecule per 10,000 has caused nearly a degree or warming? That’s one powerful molecule!

Reply to  Ron
October 16, 2015 5:39 am

Ron, what evidence can you show demonstrating that every smidgen of any warming over the past 100+ years must necessarily be due to CO2 increasing?
Are you of the opinion that climate does not change, unless man does something to cause it?
Are you at all schooled in Earth history?

Patrick
October 15, 2015 11:25 pm

Racketeering? Not sure about that, certainly it would seem they are all “feathering their nests” on grant money. Lets hope the all end up carping in their nests too.

October 15, 2015 11:43 pm

Every time I see this, I think of Jugdish from “Animal House”:- he’s the one in the middle…:

October 16, 2015 12:03 am

Written before the RICO20 issue emerged from the primordial ooze:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/06/24/uk-met-fastest-decline-solar-activity-last-ice-age/#comment-1972538
PROPOSAL – SUE THE WARMISTS IN THE USA UNDER CIVIL RICO
I have been considering this approach for several years and I think it is now time to proceed..
Civil RICO provides for TRIPLE DAMAGES. Global losses from the global warming scam are in the trillions, including hundreds of billions on the USA.
We would sue the sources of warmist funding and those who have significantly profited from the global warming scam..
The key to starting a civil RICO action is to raise several million dollars to fund the lawsuit, which will be protracted and expensive.
If serious funders are interested, please contact me through http://www.OilsandsExpert.com
Regards, Allan MacRae
Calgary
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/09/21/salmon-climate-and-accountability/#comment-1743671
Phil – please see my post of September 21, 2014 at 11:28 pm
I suggest that someone is going to sue these warmist fraudsters in the USA, probably using the civil RICO statutes.
Watch for it…
Best, Allan

David Cage
October 16, 2015 12:28 am

Surely altering data after the claim had been made that the science was beyond question has to be the most overt case of fraud possible. Either the science is beyond question so needs nothing whatever changed or the changes are honest but the original claim was clearly fraudulent.

mikewaite
October 16, 2015 12:48 am

Is Shukla now an American citizen , or still an Indian national? I failed to discover this from his cv.
If not it seems odd to me that a foreigner can orchestrate the arrest and imprisonment of distinguished US scientists like Spencer and Lindzen using US laws simply because he does not agree with their research.
At the very least it is rather bad manners when you are a guest in the country of said scientists.

Gary Pearse
October 16, 2015 3:16 am

Ron
October 16, 2015 at 1:14 am
“So approximately 1 C02 molecule per 10,000 has caused nearly a degree or warming? That’s one powerful molecule!”
They do give water vapor a best supporting actor award, but that’s not the criticism I want to make. Ron and many others here keep hitting on the 1 molecule per 10,000 as an absurdly tiny level of CO2 to have an effect. Steve Mosher made a simple but eloquent comment on another thread that all skeptics should digest because looking foolish is not good business for a skeptic in this game. That insy winsy soupcon of a gas is more than enough to support the entire biosphere – life on earth!! Yes it is a very powerful molecule and we should simply argue that more is better than less.

Patrick
Reply to  Gary Pearse
October 16, 2015 3:29 am

No! It’s ~3% of that 1 molecule in 10,000 that is DRIVING the change. Pure bunkum!

Carbon500
Reply to  Gary Pearse
October 16, 2015 7:32 am

Gary: Look at the CO2 increase again as per my earlier post:
“Pre-industrial’ CO2 levels (i.e. prior to 1750AD) were 280 molecules in a million (ppm) of all atmospheric gases (water vapour excluded). Currently, we have 401 ppm of CO2. That’s a 43% increase in CO2.”
For me, that’s a strong case for saying that CO2 is not going to cause catastrophic man-made global warming. If a 43% increase hasn’t ratcheted up global temperatures to terrifying heights, why waste fortunes trying to ‘mitigate’ a non-existent threat?
For further interest, look at the world’s oldest temperature record, the Central England Temperature record or CET.
The annual average temperature in 1750 is given as 9.71C, and in 2014 it was 10.95. This hasn’t been a consistent rise;. in 2013 for example it was 9.61C.
In 1659 it was 8.87C, and in 2010 8.86C!
Yet, I repeat, CO2 has risen by 43% since 1750.
The UK isn’t ‘global’ nor is the CET record ‘global’, but as I always joke – come to the UK to escape doomsday!

October 16, 2015 5:07 am

Reblogged this on gottadobetterthanthis and commented:

Feynmen was referring to NASA and the space shuttle, but his statement is universal:
“For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.”
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman
Most all assertions related to green and sustainable are ignoring how nature works (the physical world and the nature of mankind). In the end, reality bites.
It won’t help to put those who disagree with you in prison (or worse). Nature doesn’t care. In the end, those who oppose fossil fuel will suffer. The more they get their way, the more they will have pain and sorrow.
In the end, we will go to nuclear, first fission, then fusion, but fusion is too far away to consider.
We must work to make our world better WITH fossil fuel, and we must stop demonizing carbon dioxide. It is good. It is an essential ingredient of life.

Esa-Matti Lilius
October 16, 2015 5:13 am

Menicholas wrote “Even here we have many scientists who dispute if CO2 is even capable of warming the atmosphere at all. The debates between the two camps of physics experts on this topic leave me wondering who to belive and what to think.”
can you give references where physicists show scientifically how CO2 warms atmosphere?

Reply to  Esa-Matti Lilius
October 16, 2015 5:51 am

I have no idea why my comment leads you to believe I am going to do a bunch of homework for you.
Or why you would suppose I keep a handy list of such references.

October 16, 2015 5:41 am

Attached?

Esa-Matti Lilius
October 16, 2015 6:03 am

I would be satisfied with one

Esa-Matti Lilius
October 16, 2015 6:07 am

with “scientifically” I ment obeying laws of physics

Reply to  Esa-Matti Lilius
October 16, 2015 10:08 am

I think you entirely missed my point.
For one thing.
For another, if I knew of proof one way or the other, I would not be undecided on who to believe, would I?
My point is that among scientists there is discussion and disagreement.
Expecting those with no scientific background to automatically gravitate towards what skeptics are saying is expecting too much of them.

Reply to  menicholas
October 16, 2015 10:10 am

By the way, if you have proof of the opposite proposition, I would be happy to read it.
Not sure if you are aware of my position, or of my commitment to this subject.

Reply to  menicholas
October 16, 2015 10:16 am

Even among skeptical scientists, there is disagreement. On some rather fundamental issues.
A layperson wading into this morass can be forgiven for not knowing instantly who to believe.

Esa-Matti Lilius
Reply to  menicholas
October 16, 2015 12:56 pm

Menicholas:I do not have a slightest idea of your position. I have the highest university degree in physical chemistry although from nearly 50 years ago. According to my classical text books I have no difficulties to understand that CO2 cannot warm the atmosphere. Maybe my knowledge is old – fashioned. That’s why I asked. What I got? Very unpolite answer with no substance. I thought this happens only on alarmist pages.

Reply to  Esa-Matti Lilius
October 17, 2015 9:05 am

Hello Esa-Matti,
We have a full-scale test of the hypothesis occurring right now on this planet – I suggest that is more meaningful and more accurate than the physical arguments. While fossil fuel combustion and atmospheric CO2 both increased strongly since about the 1940’s, global temperatures decreased from ~1940 to ~1975, increased to ~2000 and has been flat since – so there is a negative correlation of temperature with CO2, a positive one, and a zero one.
The evidence suggests that near-zero is the correct answer – CO2 is NOT significant driver of global temperatures. The alleged global warming crisis does not exist.
Furthermore, ple3ase note that atmospheric CO2 lags temperature at all measured time scales, and consider the implications of this reality.
A few more thoughts below: Climate heresy now, but conventional wisdom in 10-20 years.
Regards, Allan 🙂
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/06/13/presentation-of-evidence-suggesting-temperature-drives-atmospheric-co2-more-than-co2-drives-temperature/
Observations and Conclusions:
1. Temperature, among other factors, drives atmospheric CO2 much more than CO2 drives temperature. The rate of change dCO2/dt is closely correlated with temperature and thus atmospheric CO2 LAGS temperature by ~9 months in the modern data record
2. CO2 also lags temperature by ~~800 years in the ice core record, on a longer time scale.
3. Atmospheric CO2 lags temperature at all measured time scales.
4. CO2 is the feedstock for carbon-based life on Earth, and Earth’s atmosphere and oceans are clearly CO2-deficient. CO2 abatement and sequestration schemes are nonsense.
5. Based on the evidence, Earth’s climate is insensitive to increased atmospheric CO2 – there is no global warming crisis.
6. Recent global warming was natural and irregularly cyclical – the next climate phase following the ~20 year pause will probably be global cooling, starting by ~2020 or sooner.
7. Adaptation is clearly the best approach to deal with the moderate global warming and cooling experienced in recent centuries.
8. Cool and cold weather kills many more people than warm or hot weather, even in warm climates. There are about 100,000 Excess Winter Deaths every year in the USA and about 10,000 in Canada.
9. Green energy schemes have needlessly driven up energy costs, reduced electrical grid reliability and contributed to increased winter mortality, which especially targets the elderly and the poor.
10. Cheap, abundant, reliable energy is the lifeblood of modern society. When politicians fool with energy systems, real people suffer and die. That is the tragic legacy of false global warming alarmism.
Allan MacRae, Calgary, June 12, 2015

Esa-Matti Lilius
Reply to  Allan MacRae
October 18, 2015 4:32 am

Allan, thank you very much for your kind reply. Yes, I am aware of all those (non)relations between temperature and atmospheric CO2.

Reply to  Esa-Matti Lilius
October 17, 2015 7:50 pm

Impolite, or matter of fact? I said nothing rude.
I am sort of thinking that perhaps English is not your first language.
For the record, I also studied physical chemistry, and have no proof that CO2 can warm the atmosphere.
Since I have no such proof, how can I post links?
Many assert that there is such an affect, and some dispute it.
Then again, in science, there is not really thought t be any way to prove a proposition, only to disprove it.
If CO2 goes up, and it also warms, it may be the CO2, or it may be something else.
But, as we have seen, CO2 has gone up rapidly for many years, and yet we have had no warming for going on 19 years now.
This does not prove that CO2 does not cause any warming though, since no one can know what would have happened if CO2 had remained stable.
I am still not sure why you thought I could prove, or show proof, of what you asked.
I was using the lack of agreement among experts on this point, as an example to illustrate something else entirely.
I am sorry if you have very thin skin. Lucky for you this is not a warmist site…they are not matter of fact…they are typically openly hostile.

Esa-Matti Lilius
Reply to  Menicholas
October 18, 2015 4:44 am

You are quite right, English is not my first language. Actually it is not even my second, which is German. It is obviously due to my poor English that I got the impression when you wrote “The debates between the two camps of physics experts on this topic leave me wondering who to belive and what to think” that there are written opinions based on solid physics of some physicists who think that CO2 is able to warm the atmosphere. I did not ask any proof, just a reference. I do not know whwther this is correctly said in English.
But maybe there are not such papers. Maybe your sentence just meant that you have heard about such debates.

Reply to  Menicholas
October 18, 2015 10:48 am

You can read such debating here on a regular basis.
Many of the commenters post links to various studies.
The subject of radiative physics is not one that I feel I have any particular expertise in.

Reply to  Esa-Matti Lilius
October 17, 2015 7:55 pm

BTW, If I was less convivial than you may have preferred, perhaps it was because you seemed to be demanding that I post proof of a proposition that I had not asserted was true.

October 16, 2015 6:23 am

I suggest that the entire federal government is an organized criminal enterprise. Does anyone really believe that a billion dollar in “donations” given to elect a president for a $400,000/year job does not expect a payback from the government coffers. The imposition of the climate scam is just like the mafia getting into garbage business, another opportunity to steal.

Reply to  Billyjack
October 16, 2015 10:11 am

How about hundreds of billions in sports betting on people who make hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars playing the game? Very good point sir.

October 17, 2015 8:28 pm

Fraud should be a crime for politicians and political activists the same as everybody else.