Climate modeler Matthew England still ignoring reality – claims IPCC models will eventually win

From the University of New South Wales and  ‘models versus reality‘ department comes this claim from alarmist Matthew England, whose “say anything” track record isn’t at all impressive, and looks to be an obsession with “being right” rather than doing careful science, for example:

December 2012:  England accuses sceptics of lying when they say the rise in global air temperatures has paused:

And so anybody out there lying that the IPCC projections are overstatements or that the observations haven’t kept pace with the projections is completely offline with this. The analysis is very clear that the IPCC projections are coming true.

On the plus side, at least he acknowledges the existence of “the pause” now, but says it’s irrelevant. Whatever.

models-vs-datasets
From The Wall Street Journal, Radiosonde and Satellite (UAH/RSS) data, source, Dr. Roy Spencer

Or, with the surface temperature record and the satellite record, if you prefer:

CMIP5-90-models-global-Tsfc-vs-obs[1]Here is the press release:


 

Heat still on despite warming slowdown

Hiatus in global average temperatures has little effect on projected temperatures in 2100

The recent slowdown in the rise of global average air temperatures will make no difference to how much the planet will warm by 2100, a new study has found.

The peer-reviewed study, published today in Nature Climate Change, compared climate models that capture the current slowdown in warming to those that do not. The study found that long-term warming projections were effectively unchanged across the two groups of models.

“This shows that the slowdown in global warming has no bearing on long-term projections – it is simply due to decadal variability. Greenhouse gases will eventually overwhelm this natural fluctuation,” said lead author and Chief Investigator with the ARC Centre of Excellence for Climate System Science, Prof Matthew England.

To separate the long-term temperature outcomes from short-term variability the researchers took 200 climate simulations and re-evaluated them out to 2100 by comparing those that captured the current slowdown to those that did not.

The models were analyzed using one of two IPCC carbon emission projections.

The first was a scenario where greenhouse gas concentrations continue to rise unabated through the 21st Century. The second assumes emissions are reduced to address global warming, peaking by 2040 before declining sharply.

Under the high emissions scenario, the difference in average projected end-of-century warming between the two groups of models is less than 0.1°C; a tiny fraction of the projected 5°C global warming if emissions are not curbed.

Warming of this magnitude is well beyond the 2°C threshold that is considered a target by the Australian Government and a safe limit by the IPCC.

In the past, certain lobby groups have tried to argue that the recent slowdown in the rise of global average temperatures is a reason to abandon international and national efforts to curb carbon emissions.

This study shows the slowdown merely reflects short-term variability. Long-term global warming is still set to reach dangerous levels unless carbon emissions are reduced dramatically in the coming decades.

“Our research shows that while there may be short-term fluctuations in global average temperatures, long-term warming of the planet is an inevitable consequence of increasing greenhouse gas concentrations,” Prof England said.

“This much hyped global warming slowdown is just a distraction to the task at hand”.

###

Note: as is typical with these jokers, they don’t bother to give the name of the paper in the press release, so I looked it up. The short abstract reads more like an opinion than science, especially since that favorite buzzword “robust” can’t possibly apply to any future prediction, be it climate 85 years from now, tomorrow’s weather forecast, or the stock market.

Robust warming projections despite the recent hiatus

doi:10.1038/nclimate2575
Published online23 April 2015

The hiatus in warming has led to questions about the reliability of long-term projections, yet here we show they are statistically unchanged when considering only ensemble members that capture the recent hiatus. This demonstrates the robust nature of twenty-first century warming projections.

england-fig1

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PeterB in Indianapolis
April 23, 2015 12:22 pm

So basically, even though reality shows a warming pause lasting 18 years or so now, and only a handful of the 100+ models can be forced to show such a pause, the MODEL OUTPUT at year 2100 remains the same, so we are still all DOOMED!
There, rephrased the entire paper for you!

average joe
April 23, 2015 12:23 pm

Looking at this chart (click on it to zoom in and see it better) I don’t see any models that predict the pause. Out of the 90 models I see 2 that are below observed temps, but neither shows the same flat lining of temperatures that we have observed. These two are lower today only because they were much lower in 1995 (perhaps they exaggerated aerosol effects from Pinatubo?). NONE of the models show the current flat-to-decreasing trendline that shows in both of the observational records in this chart.comment image
It may be premature to claim that the models have been falsified, however at the very least this chart shows that the science is far from settled, and is trending toward strong evidence that they are wrong. How far does the pause have to extend before they are declared falsified? I give it about 5 yrs. I see three possible outcomes in 5 yrs: (1) Observations make an abrupt turn positive and begin to catch up to the average; (2) Observations turn higher, but only weakly so that they are no longer losing ground on the models; (3) Observations remain on current trend of flat to down, becoming far lower than any of the model outputs.
Frankly I would like to see (3) at which point we could leave all this carbon pollution nonsense behind. If it’s (1) then I will change my position that perhaps the alarmist claims have some merit although I would strongly favor spending money on adaptation rather than mitigation. And if it’s (2), heaven forbid, then this stinking polarization will likely continue (which perhaps could be good for climate blogs ;-).

Village Idiot
Reply to  average joe
April 23, 2015 2:06 pm

” I don’t see any models that predict the pause…Out of the 90 models …NONE of the models show the current flat-to-decreasing trendline that shows in both of the observational records in this chart”
Ha, ha, ha….Ha. What a mess! Average…your eyes are a lot better than mine. Or is it just wishful thinking?

average joe
Reply to  Village Idiot
April 23, 2015 4:46 pm

Idiot: You’re babbling again.

Evan Jones
Editor
Reply to  Village Idiot
April 23, 2015 5:28 pm

No, he’s right. But I think it is irrelevant.

David Ball
Reply to  Village Idiot
April 23, 2015 8:03 pm

He is not right, and it is relevant.

Reply to  Village Idiot
April 23, 2015 8:08 pm

Since about 99% of the individual models are well above the CURRENT temperature trend line, you have nothing to brag about.

PeterB in Indianapolis
April 23, 2015 12:26 pm

The entire problem with climate science as a whole is that the models they use are demonstrably faulty to begin with.
You have all heard the phrase “garbage in, garbage out”. Well the actual problem with the climate models is that it doesn’t matter whether you put quality data or garbage data INTO the model. Because the model is faulty to begin with, YOU CAN ONLY GET GARBAGE OUT.
I am sure there are those that will argue that the models are “State of the Art” and “The Best We Have Available” (you all know which 3 or 4 commenters I am referring to), but nonetheless, until a climate model can be designed that properly accounts for ALL of the variables which influence climate, the models will be garbage. Further, since climate is a non-linear coupled chaotic system, I don’t believe a truly adequate model CAN be constructed.

PeterB in Indianapolis
April 23, 2015 12:29 pm

comment image
The title of this graph is misleading (at least to anyone who is a scientist). It should technically be titled “Model PROJECTIONS vs. The Real World”.

Evan Jones
Editor
Reply to  PeterB in Indianapolis
April 23, 2015 5:29 pm

However, it is only mid-trop. Surface diverges (somewhat) less.

Brian
April 23, 2015 12:31 pm

I’m a bit confused with the model vs. empirical graphs and maybe someone can enlighten me. All the graph lines start around 1980 and show an incline to about 1990, followed by a decline to about 1995, followed by another incline.
Did all these models start in 1980? Did these models correctly predict the 1990 to 1995 decline? And is there any graph out the that shows just the forward predictions from these models without the backward “proofing” or readjustments that I suspect have been added to these graphs?

Janice Moore
Reply to  Brian
April 23, 2015 12:54 pm

Suggested reading (hope it’s possible for you to get this book):
http://www.amazon.com/Climate-Models-Fail-Bob-Tisdale-ebook/dp/B00FEGNXA4/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1429818782&sr=1-1&keywords=Climate+MOdels+Fail%2C+Bob+Tisdale
Climate Models Fail, e book by Bob Tisdale (2013).

Evan Jones
Editor
Reply to  Brian
April 23, 2015 5:31 pm

Pinatubo.

mobihci
Reply to  Brian
April 24, 2015 3:46 pm

Brian, the graphs start in 1980 because satellites started recording in 1979. the models dont start in 1980 but the comparison is made from the start of the dataset.

Bear
April 23, 2015 12:32 pm

Wait a minute. Their Fig 1 readjusts the temperature data anomaly to 2006 biasing it upward so it “looks” like it’s not that far off from the models. So now we have an “England” trick?

Bear
April 23, 2015 12:33 pm

Wait a minute. Their Fig 1 readjusts the temperature data anomaly to 2006 biasing it upward so it “looks” like it’s not that far off from the models. So now we have an “England” trick?

Louis
April 23, 2015 12:39 pm

“This much hyped global warming slowdown is just a distraction to the task at hand”.
Yes, facts are often an inconvenient distraction to the hype and propaganda of flim-flam artists.

knr
April 23, 2015 12:42 pm

eventually the sun will grow so big it will cause the type of global warming that boils the oceans , so he is right ‘ eventually ‘!
And once again we are reminded that they never been able to say what would ‘disprove ‘ CAGW because they claims anything and everything ‘proves it ‘ , and this has what to do with science?

April 23, 2015 12:43 pm

The RCP 8.5 scenario is PRESCRIBED. The IPCC decided they wanted a case with 8.5 watts per m2 forcing. This required the modeler so to jam an incredible amount of green house gases in the atmosphere. The amount of fossil fuels they burn isn’t economically available. This means any paper using 8.5 is pure garbage.

Reply to  Fernando Leanme
April 23, 2015 1:37 pm

Correct. RCP6 is probably about the max. A closer analysis of this switcheroo suggests that something midpoint between RCP4.5 and RCP6 is analagous to former SRES ‘business as usual’ scenarios A2 or A1b in AR4. I think the change deliberately confounded the ability to compare predictions over time, since AR5 used this trick to effectively climb down a bit.

April 23, 2015 12:44 pm

The way he talks, is someone who has an agenda to push,where an honest researcher would follow the evidence to whatever it leads.
Models all the way up and down,from infinity to infinity!
Ha ha ha ha ha…………

Joel Snider
April 23, 2015 12:47 pm

I have no doubt that the models will eventually ‘win’ – not because they will be proved right, but because this entire AGW movement has nothing to do with reality, so much as it is a chess game where policy makers and activists are simply putting their pieces into place, suppressing the opposition – a game that has been played for decades and is approaching checkmate.

Alberta Slim
Reply to  Joel Snider
April 23, 2015 1:31 pm

Somebody may tip the chessboard over…………… ;^D

average joe
Reply to  Joel Snider
April 23, 2015 2:28 pm

Or perhaps bust it over someones head. One thing cagw’s have in common, they’re all pusillanimous.

April 23, 2015 12:48 pm

Anthony – “Cryosphere Today” has not been updated for 10 days. Interestingly, according to NSIDC, global sea ice is now 1.32mm km^2 above average, an increase of about 1mm km^2 since 10 days ago when “Cryosphere Today” apparently decided that ice extent wasn’t really important anymore.
21.86503226 – average global sea ice day 111 2015 mm km^2
23.193 – day 111 2015 sea ice (latest) mm km^2
1.327967742 – mm km^2 above average
You might want to give a ring and see what is up over there. We could be seeing the end of the dreaded “sea ice death spiral” and the beginning of the global warming scare-mongering death spiral.
Data at these links.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/iphone/images/iphone.anomaly.global.png
https://sunshinehours.wordpress.com/
ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/DATASETS/NOAA/G02135/south/daily/data
ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/DATASETS/NOAA/G02135/north/daily/data

The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
Reply to  Brodie Johnson
April 23, 2015 12:55 pm

Funnily enough, I was just about to post: ‘OT, Antarctic ice is currently off on one – up, up and away’.

SAMURAI
Reply to  Brodie Johnson
April 23, 2015 11:17 pm

Yes, I noticed the same strange and sudden cessation of daily updates, too…
Not meaning to be conspiratorial, I find it very interesting the daily updates ended just as global, Arctic and Antarctic sea ice anomalies started to exceed “normal” averages…
Arctic ice extents are now less than 1 SD from the 35-yr average and Antarctic ice extents are about 3+ SDs above 35-yr averages…. Hmmmm….
My guess is that perhaps the powers that be are developing new algorithms to “better” measure ice extents to enable them “better” match CAGW projections…
Since Arctic Sea Ice Extent has become CAGW’s ONLY variable that comes close to matching their dire projections (although recovering substantially since 2007), they desperately need to keep this last vestige in tact for as long as possible; especially with Paris talks just 6 months away..
That’s just a guess, but I wouldn’t put it past them to at least try and make some “necessary adjustments”… It certainly wouldn’t be the first time they’ve done this…

April 23, 2015 12:48 pm

“Abstract:
The hiatus in warming has led to questions about the reliability of long-term projections, yet here we show they are statistically unchanged when considering only ensemble members that capture the recent hiatus. This demonstrates the robust nature of twenty-first century warming projections.”
Is the “Scientific Method” in there somewhere?

Mark from the Midwest
April 23, 2015 12:53 pm

I worked with a couple faculty from UNSW on a project about 20 years ago. It was in a totally different field, but I was amazed at how they substituted rhetoric for analysis. This sounds like more of the same.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Mark from the Midwest
April 23, 2015 12:56 pm

Except, this time, you’re not amazed, huh?
They are PATHETIC.

April 23, 2015 1:00 pm

Matthew England seems to have a BS in mathemology.

CaligulaJones
April 23, 2015 1:00 pm

The old days:
1) Warmists release climate study that doesn’t include much about the sun
2) Some point out that the sun seems fairly important for understanding climate
3) Warmists say that those who say this are not only wrong, but paid to say such blasphemous things
4) Warmists release a study include a bit more about the sun, hopes nobody notices
5) Some point out that its nice for the warmists to catch up, but what about clouds?
6) Warmists say that if clouds were important, the IPCC would have included them, you idiots
7) Warmists release a study that includes some information about clouds, hopes nobody notices
8) Etc., repeat as needed
The new days
1) Warmists release a study showing no hiatus in warming
2) Some point out a hiatus in warming, using the same data as the warmists did
3) Warmists say that if the Real Scientists say there is no hiatus, there is no hiatus, you evil bastards
4) Real Scientists admit there is a hiatus, but it doesn’t mean anything, and certainly doesn’t prove the models that didn’t show it are wrong
Waiting for
5) Real Scientists admit the hiatus they didn’t project, and didn’t admit was real, then didn’t admit was a big deal actually does mean something, and will need a massive amount of cash to look into, starting with a week in Rio in January.

Janice Moore
Reply to  CaligulaJones
April 23, 2015 1:09 pm

LOL. Well said!

Reply to  CaligulaJones
April 23, 2015 2:49 pm

+1
Very good.

milodonharlani
April 23, 2015 1:01 pm

More important to saving the planet from the CACA conspirators than yet more years of flat to cooling GASTA is electing a GOP POTUS, Among those likely to seek the nomination announced or mentioned so far, any candidate but Bush, Christie, Graham or Kasich will do. Not sure about Fiorina:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy/2015/0416/Carly-Fiorina-Fix-climate-change-with-innovation-not-regulation
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/06/carly-fiorina-california-drought_n_7014468.html?cps=gravity_2845_4118165490805229790
That leaves Walker, Cruz, Rubio, Paul, Carson, Huckabee, Jindal, Perry, Santorum, et al. Paul fudges what I think are his true beliefs when on Maher’s show. The others vary in their opposition to the CACA scam, but would IMO go along with a congressional agenda to dismantle the anti-scientific, anti-human hoax, if such were to emerge after 2017. However even many GOP members of Congress, as part of the government, still on the CACA bandwagon.
My GOP representative votes for windmill subsidies, since central & eastern Oregon have so many of the bird- & bat-battering death machines, including those on land belong to my family, friends, acquaintances & neighbors.

April 23, 2015 1:01 pm

Part One: Heating the earth
A popular global heat balance shows 340 W/m2 incoming radiative flux at the top of atmosphere. A watt is a power unit, energy over time, equaling 3.41 Btu of energy/heat/work per hour. Over a 24 hour period the earth’s ToA semi-spherical surface would collect 7.13E18 Btu of energy.
Dry air is mostly nitrogen and oxygen with a heat capacity of about 0.24 Btu/lb-F. For dry air to absorb 7.13E18 Btu would require a temperature increase of about 2.63 F. Over 24 hours.
Water vapor evaporates/absorbs, condenses/releases, energy/heat at about 1,000 Btu/lb. For atmospheric water vapor to absorb 7.13E18 Btu through evaporation would require an amount equal to 25.5% of the current atmospheric water vapor content, i.e. more clouds, more albedo, more reflection, a self-correcting thermostat. That’s the entire ToA!
The sensible heat of water vapor driven by downwelling produces a trivial positive feedback. IPCC AR5 TS6 admits uncertainty about the magnitude. The evaporation of water vapor produces a negative feedback several orders of magnitude larger.
Part Two: IPCC RCPs
IPCC AR5 states that between the years 1750 and 2011 man generated GHGs increased the RF by less than 3 W/m2. (Is that the downwelling?) Contrast that figure with the ToA.
IPCC bases its various computer model predictions on four cases:
Case………….…CO2 ………….……Radiative……Dry air, ΔF………..Increase in atmospheric
………………….Concentration……..Forcing………………………………water vapor content
RCP 2.6…………421 ppm CO2……..3.0 W/m2………0.02……………..……….0.2%
RCP 4.5…………538 ppm CO2……..4.5 W/m2………0.03………………………0.3%
RCP 6.0…………670 ppm CO2……..6.0 W/m2………0.05………………………0.4%
RCP 8.5…………936 ppm CO2……..8.5 W/m2………0.07………………………0.6%
It’s the water vapor thermostat that controls the greenhouse, not CO2. It’s the water vapor thermostat that controls the simplistic blanket analogy as well. The hiatus heat went into a few more clouds, not the ocean.

April 23, 2015 1:05 pm

December 2012: England accuses sceptics of lying when they say the rise in global air temperatures has paused:
“And so anybody out there lying that the IPCC projections are overstatements or that the observations haven’t kept pace with the projections is completely offline with this. The analysis is very clear that the IPCC projections are coming true.”
Really such as this one?
“For the next two decades, a warming of about 0.2°C per decade is projected for a range of SRES emission scenarios. Even if the concentrations of all greenhouse gases and aerosols had been kept constant at year 2000 levels, a further warming of about 0.1°C per decade would be expected.”
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/spmsspm-projections-of.html
Reality shows a very different picture:
http://www.woodfortrees.org/graph/hadcrut4gl/from:2001/to:2015.3/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:2001/to:2015.3/trend/plot/rss/from:2001/to:2015.3/plot/rss/from:2001/to:2015.3/trend
Not even close! EPIC FAIL!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha…….

Lneraho
Reply to  sunsettommy
April 23, 2015 1:51 pm
Lneraho
Reply to  Lneraho
April 23, 2015 1:57 pm

or this chart:
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/gistemp-dts/plot/none
the late 90′ and mid 2000 lows are higher than anything prior to 1980. That’s a buy signal from where I come from, nothing but up.

Reply to  Lneraho
April 23, 2015 2:08 pm

Are you that blind to what I wrote?
Again read what I QUOTED from the IPCC:
““For the next two decades, a warming of about 0.2°C per decade is projected for a range of SRES emission scenarios. Even if the concentrations of all greenhouse gases and aerosols had been kept constant at year 2000 levels, a further warming of about 0.1°C per decade would be expected.”
The next TWO decades, which is THIS century. The first 20 years.
That is why I posted a chart for just the same time frame the IPCC started at,year 2001.
According to their crack Chimps modeling scenarios,it should be warming around .35C or more after 13 plus years.Instead we get about ZERO!
You post charts from the 1800’s onward,which has nothing to do what I was talking about,which was about how poor the IPCC modeling projection is,for just THIS CENTURY’S first two decades.

Reply to  Lneraho
April 24, 2015 8:14 am

Why give scientific thoughts on unscientifically “adjusted” trendlines?
And who is surprised that temps tend to rise at the end of a little ice age?

Lneraho
Reply to  sunsettommy
April 23, 2015 2:00 pm

btw, showing a temperature history chart from 2000-2015 is like saying it didn’t warm from 12 to 1pm when it should have. Show the full trend, we’re talking epochs and eons here, not an afternoon on the porch.

Reply to  Lneraho
April 23, 2015 2:15 pm

It is clear you don’t take the time to think over what you read, since I was responding to the IPCC’s statement that covers only 20 years,the FIRST twenty years of this century.
“For the next two decades, a warming of about 0.2°C per decade is projected for a range of SRES emission scenarios…….”
THINK!

Lneraho
Reply to  sunsettommy
April 23, 2015 2:33 pm

I thought everyone was in agreement here that the IPCC is wrong, but that doesn’t mean that temperatures aren’t rising. See Nickreality65 above for valuable insight it what is actually happening. The water vapor thermostat and response is where we’ll find a lot of answers, and a lot more questions.
!!

Reply to  Lneraho
April 23, 2015 2:50 pm

Again,again and again you missed the point I made,which is that the modeling scenarios I quoted is not just wrong, but it is catastrophically wrong.
They base their climate models on the idea that increasing CO2 level , in the atmosphere, is what drives the warming strongly upward,but 20 years later, it is still well short of meeting the myriad groups of Chimps and Wimps climate models, that keeps saying it is going to get warmer, a LOT warmer,even accelerate upward.
This suggests rather strongly, that AGW conjecture is failing badly, since it fails to show CO2 being the climate driver, it keeps saying it is supposed to be,and the lack of a significant positive feedback loop never shows up.

Lneraho
Reply to  Lneraho
April 23, 2015 2:58 pm

for below to sunset Tom, again and again, you are missing my point. The moderator won’t let me reference other epic fails of models, but why do we all care where in the band we are? The IPCC can be wrong in alot of ways. Each year there though has been less snow in Tahoe, less rain in Sao Paulo, and Australia so regardless of temperature steps, the longer term trend is clearly higher and the near term realities are accelerating resulting in lower GDP, lower home values, and lower standards of living. Catastrophically if you own a ski resort, or an almond grove. This is real money, not website money.
(Reply: No one is stopping you from referencing anything. Kindly stop trying to get the moderation team involved. Further attempts to start discussions with moderators will be deleted. -mod.)

Janice Moore
Reply to  Lneraho
April 23, 2015 6:11 pm

Sunset Tommy — we (the science realists around here) get you.
(Just so you don’t feel all alone in the swamp that L’ho is creating, stomping around out in left fieldin his hobnailed boots, spewing unsupported nonsense).
L’ho — COOLER = dryer (v. a v. the ski resorts).

Lneraho
Reply to  Lneraho
April 24, 2015 6:07 am

@Janice “stomping” “spewing” “nonsense” Are you suggesting there isn’t a drought in Calif and there is 14 feet of snowpack? Are you suggesting that Sao Paulo got down to 3% of water reserves and will soon break down in chaos? Are you suggesting that Boston didn’t get 100+ inches of snow in just a few weeks? If you think those events did not happen, then you would think I am “spewing nonsense”. You might then think that Santa is coming and Jesus will open the door and feed him cookies. But the reality is…. they did all happen. I didn’t make it up. There is a high pressure ridge.. oh , never mind.

Patrick
Reply to  Lneraho
April 24, 2015 6:25 am

“Lneraho
April 23, 2015 at 2:58 pm
…less rain in Sao Paulo, and Australia…”
WRONG! So so wrong it’s too funny! The issue is where rain falls in Aus in relation to where people live and food grown. Food prices are about to spike BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH RAIN. Our dams are full because of the rain Flannery said would not fall. Manly dam is filled to overflowing. Lake Ayre filled in 2010. I have no idea where you live but less rain in Aus…too funny!

Reply to  Lneraho
April 24, 2015 8:18 am

“WRONG! So so wrong it’s too funny! The issue is where rain falls in Aus in relation to where people live and food grown. Food prices are about to spike BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH RAIN. Our dams are full because of the rain Flannery said would not fall. Manly dam is filled to overflowing. Lake Ayre filled in 2010. I have no idea where you live but less rain in Aus…too funny”
*cue the crickets*

Lneraho
Reply to  Lneraho
April 24, 2015 4:21 pm

From the cricket section, and Australian govt:
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/drought/drought.shtml
which is an improvement over this drought, worst recorded since settlement:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_Australian_drought
But the deluges or surpluses you point out are interesting and in a way correlate with temperature extremes we had this winter, -20 vs averages in the east coast and +20 in the west
No mention from the crew of science experts re Sao Paulo, California… just false information re Australia. Anyone care to spew or stomp or use !! points to make points that ignore $4bln in economic damages

Reply to  Lneraho
April 24, 2015 6:08 pm

Cricket anyone? Croquet? I have never been to Australia (more likely to go to NZ), but I must apologize for posting a simplistic observation in the company of Australians. For those that don’t know offhand, the land mass of AUST is just slightly larger than the US 48, so “saying drought in Australia” is too undefined, like saying polar vortex in America. Didn’t happen in the west, but nonetheless it happened and we had extreme variability vs historic averages in opposite directions depending on which side of the country you were on. But also citing a few full damns and flooding in Australia is equally misleading and reveals inherent bias and intent. It’s a really big country! It’s even a continent. There are droughts in Australia though, fact. There was a much deeper and longer one that ended in 2012, fact, but one might think they hit bottom and the droughts will only get better. Who knows? That would be awesome though, droughts are bad. What is more curious to me though is why is no one willing to address these realities here, instead of just bashing the IPCC, which is just another institution bound for failure like most and yet you are so happy to cheer less warming than a model, but nonetheless warming. It’s like cheering about the degradation of the Great Barrier Reef. On that note, maybe someone should start a sub-site called wattsupwiththatreef and you can cheer it’s demise and say EPIC FAIL, HA HA! He he, etc.

Patrick
Reply to  Lneraho
April 25, 2015 3:19 am

Linking to Wikipedia and the BoM, classic fail!

Patrick
Reply to  Lneraho
April 25, 2015 3:33 am

“Leland Neraho
April 24, 2015 at 6:08 pm
I have never been to Australia (more likely to go to NZ), but I must apologize for posting a simplistic observation in the company of Australians. For those that don’t know offhand, the land mass of AUST is just slightly larger than the US 48,..”
The BoM uses some ~112 land based thermometers, mostly located in cities and at airports, to calculate a national average (A totally meaningless practice). What that means is there is 1 thermometer for every ~68,500 sqaure kilometers. In 2013, the BoM changed the way they calculate that average using satellites in areas never “measured”, or used in average calculations, before. Surprise surprise, 2013 was the hottest evah! Funny that on their own website, there is acual data to disprove that! BTW, I live in Sydney, New South Wales, about 1/3 bigger than texas in land area if memory serves.
With regards to drought, yes we have drought here, but that affects farmers more than most others. Reason? Farmers are trying to grow stuff, non-native plants, where the rain usually does not fall regularly, relying on, in large part, irrigation especially along the Murray-Darling river basin.
There is a river system in North Western Australia, I don’t recall all the details, which can fill the Sydney Harbour basin every few minutes!

rgbatduke
April 23, 2015 1:16 pm

The real problems with the assertions made above are that a) the models (from what I make out in the top article) still use the old far-too-high estimates for the effect of aerosols and haven’t been retuned for the new, much lower estimates that drop ECS to well under 2 C; and b) the individual model runs don’t have the right physics in them as is obvious at a glance.
I just don’t get it. With a few exceptions that are difficult to see in spaghetti graphs like this that obfuscate the weaknesses in the models by creating a false “collective envelope” that one can then assert includes reality at some barely acceptable confidence level (untrue, as only two individual models are at or below reality across the board — the collective obviously fails a hypothesis test, although one can argue that four or five of the individual models do not) the individual model runs, in addition to producing far too much warming, have fluctuations that are almost an order of magnitude larger than those observed in the real world and have completely incorrect timescales.
In the real world, the longest stretch of unbroken warming is five years. After five years, there is at least a break in warming if not a round of cooling or flat trendless meandering. This general pattern persists all the way back to 1850 in HadCRUT4 — there are only rare periods where the climate trends up or trends down for longer than 5 years. This by itself is a critically important clue regarding the underlying dynamics.
Well over half of the models visible in the second graph above have warming trends a decade or more long. Some of them have NO cooling trends or level patches. When they hit things like ENSO or Pinatubo, the fact that they exaggerate the cooling effect of aerosols by a factor of 2 to 5 cause them to overshoot the actual change observed in global temperature by a factor of (wait for it) 2 to 5. Since they used this exaggerated cooling to cancel exaggerated warming, once the volcanic aerosol bolus goes away they produce warming at 2 to 4 times the rate of actual warming because CO_2 keeps going up but aerosols don’t keep up with it. At a glance, quite aside from the exaggerated warming predicted, the temperature has a very different fourier transform down there inside the timescales where if they had the right physics, the FTs should be matching up pretty well.
The fluctuation-dissipation theorem is the key theorem describing how the fluctuations observed around some sort of mean trend in an open system necessarily reflect the dissipative modes the system uses to maintain local equilibrium. Those modes are, in turn, the self-organized structures created by the full nonlinear physics of the open system that are the most important for describing or understanding that equilibrium. Getting this wrong simply means that the model physics is fundamentally wrong.
This is hardly surprising given that they solve the Navier-Stokes equations for the atmosphere-ocean coupled system at a spatiotemporal scale 30 orders of magnitude larger than the scale we really expect to give good answers. One could argue, of course, that they do clever things with mean field theory and averaging that make the ignored detail irrelevant and that produce the right dissipative structure and hence predict a meaningful local equilibrium. In science, however, making such an argument in the teeth of an obvious failure to satisfy fluctuation-dissipation and given a set of models that are apparently systematically diverging from reality is not very convincing. Arguing that just because some of the models some of the time can produce a “hiatus”, but that they still end up producing the exact same warming blithely ignores the fact that some of the model runs actually produce no warming all the way out to the end of the 21st century. All kinds of superaveraging is being done without any meaningful statistical basis or reason to think that the superaverages produced are predictive.
Technically, England is correct — the models haven’t been falsified. This is because the way the models are run it is literally impossible to falsify them any more than the IPCC already has — as long as one model, somewhere, some time, produces a single run that is close to reality, there is a chance that reality is just very unlikely compared to the statistical universe of possible climate trajectories. If you refuse to subject the models to a hypothesis test and reject ones that have an incredibly low p-value, then they will never be falsified, just like an ostrich who leaves his head in the sand will never see a lion even while the lion is eating him alive. If we never pick up our final exams and look at the grade, we can persist in our belief that we passed the course indefinitely even after failing every single quiz and exam along the way. Reality never actually happens if you don’t look at it.
However, nobody could claim that a comparison between models and reality provides evidence that the models are correct. That’s just absurd.
rgb

Reply to  rgbatduke
April 23, 2015 1:47 pm

Speaking rationally religiously fanatic warmunists is futile. England is beyond hope. This paper makes clear the pause has driven him out of whatever he originally possessed of a scientific mind.

EdA the New Yorker
Reply to  rgbatduke
April 23, 2015 9:38 pm

RGB,
Just for clarification, are you assuming a pseudo-equilibrium climate state where the natural evolution along a chaotic trajectory is of sufficiently long time scale for FD to be validly applicable?
Also, along a similar line, wouldn’t the plateau group necessarily require low climate sensitivity, and thus be expected to produce significantly lower 2100 temperatures? (You don’t suggest this-just asking.)

rgbatduke
Reply to  EdA the New Yorker
April 24, 2015 8:24 am

The FT isn’t going to be useful on multidecadal scales, but with 165 years of data it is probably not terrible for timescales up to a decade or even two. Again, the point of the analysis arises from the fluctuation-dissipation theorem. Chaotic or not, the FT is going to reveal important things about the dissipative mechanisms. For example, if one looked at the data on a monthly scale, the FT would clearly reveal the annual global temperature oscillation that is in counterphase with the eccentricity. The temperature data alone would tell us that a “year” exists and that something changes in the the way heat flows through the system in association with the year.
At some point the FT of a finite data segment will be dominated by artifacts, of course, so I wouldn’t take the 67 year cycle clearly evident in the data seriously even though it is a very strong peak. 165 years isn’t long enough to resolve a 65 year period, and chaos probably does do unusual things to the dissipative modes (like spontaneously switch attractors and hence multidecadal periods). But the point I’m making is that (most of) the models don’t get the short time dissipation right. They don’t get it close to right. They get it so wrong that it is perfectly clear that they don’t get the physics itself right. Whatever structures are emerging that transport heat and ultimately dissipate it in the fluid flow are the wrong structures with the wrong timescales and the wrong length scales, and I’m fairly certain that this extends all the way down to spatiotemporal scales we cannot see — I’d bet that they are off on an hourly, daily, weekly, monthly basis as it is the cumulation of this that we see as being spectrally off across the range of periods from 1 to 15 years (which ought to be resolvable with a 165 year base — that’s 10+ periods, enough to make artifacts from end effects a roughly 10% effect or less).
To give you a metaphorical model — suppose you have a marble that is rolling on a surface without slipping or dissipation. The surface it rolls on is not flat, however — it consists of many interconnected (smooth) nvalleys that wiggle from side to side and run roughly parallel and with ridges in between the valleys that can vary between no height at all to quite high. If you give the marble a random starting push along any initial valley, it will basically run up one side of the valley as it curves, then roll down and overshoot and roll up the other side, then roll back down and up the other side, repeat. Every now and then, however, instead of hitting a confining wall it makes it over the variable height ridge and into the next valley. We can imagine that the valley minima themselves are arranged on a larger scale, much flatter valley. We can even imagine a fractal distribution of the valleys and can imagine giving the marble a gentle push or a strong push, giving it the energy to easy jump between valleys at some scales but not others.
If you plot the motion of the marble transverse to its direction of motion as a function of time, local dynamics (within the current valley) gives you a “relaxation time” back to the local equilibrium at the bottom of the track. A period would emerge that tells you about the width and curvature of the locally confining valley. However, it also jumps over into nearby valleys, which might have a somewhat different width and curvature. Over time it can drift away from the initial valley altogether, although if the valley bottoms are themselves on a larger scale valley the marble will find itself confined on a larger scale and a new relaxation time will emerge as the marble “diffusively” bounces between the larger scale valley energy bounds. There can be many such times, and there is nothing that says that the width of single valleys has to remain constant or that the the larger scale valleys of valleys remain constant.
Still, as you accumulate data you learn a lot about the structure of those valleys. Things like an overall tip in the valley floors can emerge as the marble has a clear bias and is more likely to jump to the next valley on the right than on the left, although it can be difficult to differentiate this from simple cumulation of a random walk with no bias at all in a completely untipped set of valley floors.
That’s a pretty good metaphor for what the climate is doing and what we can infer from the temperature record. The climate is locally reasonably stable. It warms for a bit, then it cools for a bit, bouncing off the wall on the right that keeps it from running away in that direction, then off of the wall on the left that keeps it from running away in that direction. Sometimes it slips over into a nearby valley that has a slightly higher or lower bottom, but once there it finds itself still confined and the timescale of its confinement remains roughly the same. This results in a picture of “punctuated equilibria” — in a state of local equilibrium for a while, but with enough variability as it goes over bumps, finds holes in the confining walls, and is sometimes given a kick in a random direction by a pesky lizard that it jumps to a new nearby equilibrium now and then.
Discerning structure of the valley floors themselves is much more difficult, of course. For one thing, the valley floors aren’t usually very different in height. For another, Poissonian distributions have long tails, so it takes a lot of data to resolve bias in right vs left drift as the marble jumps valleys, and we cannot see the big picture of the surface on which the marble rolls.
In this metaphor, CO_2 plays the role of a tip in the valley floors. As it increases, it makes it a bit more likely to jump to the valley on the right with slightly higher mean (local equilibrium) temperatures than the one on the left with slightly lower temperatures. But HadCRUT4 makes it pretty clear that there is other large scale structure that can produce at least as much of a slope in the opposite direction, hence the “pause” in warming (or even cooling) from 1940 to the mid-1970s in spite of steadily increasing CO_2 throughout that period, hence the current “pause”. A correct dynamic model should capture both the gradual accrual of the tip, and the decadal dynamics of sloshing from side to side around the local equilibrium. A really good one would capture the multidecadal variation as well, which is almost certainly not (just) chaos per se, but is rather reflective of the named self-organized dissipative structures that we know have a significant impact on the climate because that’s how they were discovered and named — they are usually climate structures! These are things like the multidecadal oscillations (especially), the thermohaline circulation, the solar cycle, hurricanes and typhoons, thunderstorms, “winter”, monsoon(s), blocking highs, with timescales ranging from minutes through several decades out to as many as a thousand years (that we know of). There are even much longer timescale motions (Milankovitch stuff) and quite possibly unknown stuff thrown in on top. We have a pitifully short base of instrumental observation of any sort, and an even shorter base of global observations made with good/modern instrumentation from e.g. satellites or ARGO buoys or halfway decently sited weather stations. IMO, no more than 60 or 70 years, and arguably only 30 or 40 or even 10 or 15 (ARGO hasn’t been online very long yet).
The climate models fail this simple test long before they fail in other ways! They don’t oscillate with the right sub-decadal spectrum, and that spectrum is well resolved in the data! Worse, they overshoot badly — the marble careens up too-steep sides too fast and too far, and overreact to lizard kicks in the form of e.g. volcanic eruptions. Finally, the worst of the models just tip the damn plane to where the marbles just jump to the right every year. They never even regress to their local equilibrium because the model creates so much tipping from CO_2 that it exceeds the slope of the local valley wall. You can easily see these trajectories above — they just steadily get warmer, year after year, without ever cooling at all, without ever having a “pause” as long as a single year!
This is what is absurd in the figure above. How can any sane scientist with the slightest understanding of dynamical trajectories on rough landscapes take a look at reality over 165 years and the predictions of the CMIP5 models and not just pitch all but four or five of them directly into the dustbin? They are obviously wrong. Not because of chaos, not because of a lack of knowledge of initial state, but because they have the wrong sub-decadal dynamics. They also don’t match the multidecadal dynamics, but there we have inadequate real world data to positively resolve the problem and can only say that it is is highly probable that they have the wrong multidecadal dynamics. This isn’t a small problem, it is a large one. It is perfectly obvious that (most of) the models generate an absurdly large warming bias compared to the regressing local dissipation that makes local temperatures generally stable rather than otherwise and hence generate diffusive transitions to higher temperatures at far too great a rate, a random walk that is no longer random because instead of taking steps to the right (say) 55% of the time as opposed to 45% to the left so that a random walk on average drifts right, they’ve just built a model that takes steps to the right 100% of the time.
Seriously? And you want us to take this seriously?
Let’s reduce it to even simpler terms, Bayesian terms. You are given a coin. The coin has some probability of heads and some probability of tails, but you don’t know what they are! They could be literally anything, because a clever magician built the coin and you have no idea how he weighted it. Worse, the coin has a memory — successive trials aren’t independent! And you don’t know what the autocorrelation behavior is, how much getting heads on one flip influences the probabilities of the next flip.
You also have a computer. You wish to build a model of the coin that you can use to predict its long term behavior.
You start by flipping the coin 165 times. In that sequence, roughly 55% of the time the coin comes up heads, and roughly 45% of the time it comes up tails. But the heads and tails are clustered — you are more likely to see (say) three heads in a row or three tails in a row than you would expect if you just flipped a pure bernoulli trial coin, although in the long run there are slightly more runs of three heads than three tails and so on. As you always expect, there are a few runs of much more than three heads or three tails, and if you form the cumulated distribution function as you flip with 1’s given to heads and -1’s to tails, you see a cumulant that gradually grows but has stretches where it goes up several times in a row as well as down several times in a row.
Now you build your supposedly microscopic model! Curiously, however, your coin always lands on heads, and even more amazingly, lands at an angle so that instead of getting occasional tails, it just gets a fraction of a head. It never produces a single tail, let alone three or four in a row.
Forget about whether or not you have tweaked this model so that the angle distribution manages to smoothly interpolate the observational cumulant with its ups and downs. The model is not a model of the coin! It is the model of an imaginary coin, a coin that doesn’t exist. It doesn’t have the right probability of heads or tails, it doesn’t have the right autocorrelation behavior. It is a Bad Model. Its cumulant trace will never look like any data collection built with the real coin, and one cannot even reasonably argue that it is a predictor of the mean behavior of the cumulated distribution of coin flips because it has absurdly different and nonphysical dynamical behavior. You would do just as well fitting an arbitrary function with roughly the right shape to the cumulated distribution and not bothering to call it a microscopic model and pretending that this function can be extrapolated to predict the future of the CDF.
That’s how bad the worst CMIP5 models are, but even the not-quite worst models don’t come close to having the right decadal spectrum or fluctuation properties or dynamical responses to e.g. aerosol boluses. And yeah, then they fail to predict LTT, rainfall, drought, frequency and violence of storms, the rate of SLR, and the list goes on. Basically, they don’t correctly predict much of anything run to run, and the statistical distribution of outcomes (per model) doesn’t come out anywhere near the one result we actually can measure, reality.
This is not repaired by superaveraging the models together. Why would it be? You don’t get closer to a correct model of the coin flip by averaging any number of absurdly incorrect ones that allow coins to land at an angle and never produce a tail.
If England really wants the models to be taken seriously, he can start by rejecting models that fail a fairly detailed hypothesis test, one model at a time, in comparison with reality. I won’t even begin to address the nonsense of picking model traces that have “some” hiatus and extrapolating them to show that it isn’t quite impossible for the models to be right and yet for there to be such a profound disagreement between model results and reality all the way back to 1850 and still have crazy-talk 5 C warming by 2100 because you cleverly retain the models that have a slightly higher chance of landing the coin on the edge only slightly tipped towards heads so that they can generate a “pause” of ten or fifteen edge-on flips in a row while still cumulating those head-biased large angle flips like crazy most of the time.
rgb

whiten
Reply to  rgbatduke
April 24, 2015 4:35 am

Hello rgb.
You talk well and long. Thanks.
But if you allow me to ask one simple question.
At the moment we are ~400ppm..
~150 years ago there was only ~280 ppm CO2.
How do you think we got from there to now with such ppm increment?
Any idea?
Thanks
Cheers

rgbatduke
Reply to  whiten
April 24, 2015 9:06 am

I’m not sure what you are asking — why CO_2 is increasing in the first place or why temperature is increasing. Personally, I think that CO_2 is increasing at least in part because we are burning large amounts of coal. I think nearly all other forms of burning are nearly irrelevant in comparison. I have no opinion on the half-life of carbon in the atmosphere, but think it is plausible that the burned coal will stick around in the carbon cycle for quite a long time with at the very least more carbon in play before nature “sequesters” it in reservoirs at a new semi-stable equilibrium. But what “a long time is” I could not say, and am not convinced by any of the carbon models so far as I think that we still lack too much information to assert that one is “correct” and alternatives that also “work” are “incorrect”.
As for why the temperature is on average increasing — it is very plausible that a significant fraction of that increase, as much as “all of it”, is due to the increase in CO_2. If you look at the simple model I fit up above, this assumption fits the data remarkably well, and is backed not by complex microscopic model physics but by very simple, mean field physical arguments. On average, more CO_2 in the atmosphere should warm the surface in fairly predictable ways within some range of possibilities, and the observed best fit is within the general ballpark of that range. However, the data also clearly demonstrates that there is more going on than just CO_2, and since we cannot reasonably separate out or predict this unknown component in a simple radiative model fit, the fit must necessarily lead to a large uncertainty. The total all-feedback climate sensitivity to CO_2 could be as low as (probably just above) 0 C, say a few tenths of a degree C, although this low is pretty unlikely. It is probably in the ballpark of 1 to 1.5 C, and it also could be as high as 2 to 2.5 C, although at this point this high is pretty unlikely as well.
Getting aerosols right will substantially improve this sort of estimate. Figuring out thunderstorms and the water cycle and feedbacks will improve it still more. But ultimately, in a chaotic system, our best efforts are limited by a kind of “ceteris paribus” assumption that may not be justified — the assumption that the system itself cannot confound our best efforts to describe it in simple terms by spontanenously shifting one of its major modes of dissipation. For example, the emergence of the so-called “Pacific Hot Spot”. Suppose that this is a new, stable mode for the entire Pacific Ocean circulation. Suppose that it has the effect of basically permanently blocking ENSO phenomena, or else limiting them to being consistently weak and biasing the basin towards La Nina events. It would simultaneously shift the entire average global distribution of heat and change everything in the long run, quite possibly causing the planet to heat, or to cool, completely differently than models that assume a simple progression of a predictable PDO and semi-predictable ENSO would predict.
There is strong evidence that the planetary climate does this sort of thing without help all of the time on millennial timescales. California was mostly desert for a very long time, then it switched to become comparatively wet for most of the last couple or three centuries. It could switch back to being desert dry in a heartbeat. It may have already switched. Not because of CO_2, but because the multidecadal oscillations in the Pacific switched, because of pure chaos. We might never be able to predict such a switch, except to be almost certain that within some sufficiently long timeframe the switch will occur. That’s chaos for you.
CO_2 might (paradoxically) actually help suppress such switches and eventually give us a much more predictable and stable climate. Its increase is already directly responsible for roughly 15% of the food put on the world’s table every day, and it may be a factor in the slight decrease in the frequency and violence of storms, although that isn’t a well-supported conclusion statistically.
It may well be that increasing CO_2 will eventually lead to a “climate catastrophe”. Up to now, the additional CO_2 has almost certainly been beneficial and we might well have chosen to burn lots of coal just to get the benefits, as over a billion people are dining today courtesy of the additional CO_2. The world has never been lusher or greener in recent history, except where we persist in cutting down trees to burn them for fuel, and burning coal instead helps out with that as well. It is quite plausible that our climate “optimum” would be 450 or even 500 ppm. It is not at all clear that running it up to 1000 ppm will be totally beneficial, or even beneficial in excess of catastrophic. Personally, I think that RCP 8.5 is fairly absurdly unlikely even if we do nothing, or nothing more than is already being done. If thermonuclear fusion has indeed been cracked by e.g. Lockheed-Martin or others working on the problem (or is cracked in the next 10-20 years) the issue is totally moot for all time — we will not in this case come anywhere close to 8.5. Even without fusion, thorium and uranium fission, if we ever get over the collective fear associated with nuclear energy, would keep us from getting close to 8.5. Photovoltaic solar will probably keep us from getting close to 8.5 as its differential cost drops and the differential/marginal cost of coal based energy increases, especially if there is any sort of breakthrough in storage. We need to wait on and invest in these technologies, not engage in panicked and expensive measures that even if implemented at the cost of an ongoing human catastrophe right now would have little impact on our eventual “carbon footprint” by the time we quit using coal one way or another.
In the meantime, there are roughly 2 to 3 billion really, really poor people around the planet that are starved for energy, the fundamental resource that puts limits on nearly all other economic scarcities. Given enough, cheap enough, energy, we can literally make the deserts bloom by desalinating the oceans, we can mine scarce material out of seawater or build them out of the air. We can make fertilizers and develop access to clean water and sewage treatment in countries where the bathroom for hundreds of millions of humans is the field behind their back door, or it would be if they had a door. I am fortunate to live in an air conditioned house with clean water and super health care and more food than I can or should eat every day, all built with and enabled by cheap, copious energy. Who am I to tell those people “Sorry, you have to live another couple or three generations in abject poverty because we won’t permit the coal burning generation of electricity that would convert your poverty to plenty“?
Who is anyone? Especially with the CO_2 score so far at Benefits — 1 billion fed as a statistical certainty, every day; Penalties — absolutely statistically invisible against the background of confounding variables.
rgb
[Well summarized. Thank you. .mod]

whiten
Reply to  whiten
April 24, 2015 11:11 am

rgbatduke
April 24, 2015 at 9:06 am
Hi again.
Let me say it one more time……..You talk well and long. Thanks.
But never the less …. let me use my wild card……the arrogant one…….you completely wrong as far as I can tell.
Is no any way in any imaginable math that our coal CO2 emissions can make up or fill the gap from 280ppm to 400pppm.
That is the hard truth.
you fail as far as I can tell.
Sorry….. please do ignore me if you do not understand what I am trying a tell you.
GCMs are far much better than you, these GCMs do give a confirmation how that can be, and these GCMs do support Dr Salby not you, as far as I can tell.
thank you for your reply.
cheers

Reply to  whiten
April 24, 2015 5:41 pm

“Penalties — absolutely statistically invisible against the background of confounding variables.”
Or Penalties: “drought, 9 feet of snow in 4 weeks in an urban city, mass migration to cities in the middle east, increased terrorism, border tensions between Bangladesh and Pakistan, riots in Sao Paulo (forecasted), no more skiing in Tahoe (sorry 2-3 billion poor people, we gave at the office), and potentially what is most catastrophic is the risk of dramatically lower grape harvest in Napa. Florida can flood, not a catastrophe.”

rgbatduke
Reply to  whiten
April 25, 2015 8:15 pm

Is no any way in any imaginable math that our coal CO2 emissions can make up or fill the gap from 280ppm to 400pppm.
That is the hard truth.
you fail as far as I can tell.
Sorry….. please do ignore me if you do not understand what I am trying a tell you.

As you wish, since I haven’t a clue what you are trying to tell me, partly because you don’t actually tell me anything except “you’re wrong”. If you read my statement above, you will note that I openly acknowledge both my lack of certainty — so being wrong wouldn’t crush my soul or cause me to beat my breast — and my opinion. My opinion is due to a mix of looking up and reading out the numbers — which do, actually, have ample room for burning coal to be responsible for all or most of the CO_2 increase — and discussions with people who are actually good at math, as far as I can tell, and who actually work on this and have access to far more, far better data. Ferdinand Engelbeen discusses this topic on WUWT fairly regularly. Here is some of his research and study of this issue:
http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/co2_measurements.html
and especially:
http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/co2_origin.html
Personally I find these articles well researched, well written, and quite conclusive. Your statement that there is no way in any imaginable math that our coal CO_2 emissions can make up or fill the gap is simply not true, in detail. It is absurdly wrong. We generate twice as much additional CO_2 annually as actually appears in the atmosphere every year. The rest of the system acts as a sink, not a source, as one expects as the new CO_2 pushes the dynamical system towards a new equilibrium. All of Engelbeen’s statements are backed by graphs, data, and very cogent arguments, and the arguments are not monolithic — there are many independent lines of evidence that all point to the same conclusion. I find them completely convincing.
In the end, it is pure common sense. As he puts it — the match between anthropogenic CO_2 emissions and the atmospheric increase is almost perfect — one can establish a monotonic relation between the two that fits with R^2 within a whiff of 1. The other observable sources and sinks would have to perfectly mimic anthropogenic CO_2 to be as good a fit — but they don’t, and aren’t. They aren’t even close. This is perfectly obvious when you think about how temperature (for example) has varied relative to how CO_2 has varied. There is also direct evidence in the form of a clear lag in NH and SH concentrations, where the NH is the primary source of human emissions but the SH has by far the most ocean. If the ocean were the source, one would expect the lag to go the other way. If the ocean source were driven by temperature change, one would expect to see variations in the rate of increase with temperature. None of this is observed — the pause, for example, continues but CO_2 marches right on up. CO_2 increased from the 1940s through the 1970s, when temperatures were flat to slightly descending.
So, my friend, right back at you. The math not only makes it possible that human emissions are the probable cause of the increase, it makes it probable, and simple arithmetic suggests that since humans routinely kick in more CO_2 per annum than the atmosphere actually accumulates so that without any question the overall effect of the rest of the system is to act as a sink, the elimination of that input would very likely cause atmospheric CO_2 to decrease, at least until the atmosphere was again in balance with the sinks.
So personally, I think you are wrong, badly wrong. I’m aware that there are counter arguments, but those counter arguments usually ignore any of the data that they are not consistent with, such as the C13/C14 ratios or direct measurements of relative partial pressure of CO_2 in atmosphere relative to ocean. It isn’t that the arguments are completely implausible, but the preponderance of evidence at this point solidly favors anthropogenic CO_2 as the primary source of the increase over the last 165 years. It also doesn’t positively identify or verify the rates and balances that go into things like the Bern model — the system is without doubt very complex and we may be quite wrong in our guesses about things like long term residence lifetimes, even though the estimates are based on reasonably good assumptions and data in at least some cases. But the anthropogenic origin argument, in my own reasonably well informed opinion which could obviously be wrong but is the best I can do working pretty hard to discern the probable truth, is pretty much over, as is the argument over whether or not increased atmospheric CO_2 (all things being even approximately equal) is causing at least some greenhouse warming of the planet. How much, one can argue about. Whether it is enough to override natural variation, we probably don’t know yet (since we don’t really know what fraction comes from natural variation to be able to subtract it out). But the physics is in good agreement with the real world data, as I show above with direct fits. There are still large error bars, and the data being fit may well be suspect, but it certainly doesn’t stand as evidence against the anthropogenic global warming hypothesis per se, and there is no convincing alternative theory that can also explain why the simple radiative physics argument is wrong.
rgb

Reply to  rgbatduke
April 24, 2015 10:06 am

As for why the temperature is on average increasing — it is very plausible that a significant fraction of that increase, as much as “all of it”, is due to the increase in CO_2.
Do you look at past historical climatic data? It refutes your conclusions on CO2’S role in the climate and shows it to be a symptom of the climate not a governor of the climate.
Data makes a strong case that the PDO/AMO when combined with the sunspot averages correlate very nicely to the climate trends.

rgbatduke
Reply to  Salvatore Del Prete
April 25, 2015 8:54 pm

Salvatore, past historical climate data doesn’t “refute” my conclusions on CO_2’s role in the climate. See the fit I personally generated up above, for example. That fit doesn’t refute it at all, it makes it rather plausible since it is in excellent agreement with both the data and the predictions of the radiative-only (no feedback) theory. And I understand that theory well enough to be very, very strongly inclined to think that it is correct, if not necessarily terribly accurate. My fit, however, is well within the range of values consistent with the theory and can hardly be said to refute it.
Outside of that, I have a couple of other problems with your assertion. I’ve tried hard to get good data on the PDO. For example, I have a file that contains the monthly PDO index all the way back to 1900 (except for a few that are missing). As far as I know, it is increasingly difficult to come up with any sort of accurate index prior to this date, certainly not on a monthly basis and based on actual broad measurements. ENSO itself was only discovered/named maybe 10 years earlier. So assertions that we can correlate the PDO to climate trends back substantially further in time I will have to respectfully doubt, at least until I see and understand where the data is coming from. Recall, I have my doubts about things like the accuracy of the temperature record itself prior to 1950, let alone 1900 or 1850. Nobody ever publishes graphs with error bars in this game, at least in any document that will be seen by the public, so that every line is just (supposedly) a perfect representation of reality, end of story. I don’t know how accurately, or how far back, the AMO is known, but I’d guess once again that 1900 is probably a pretty good boundary, and that prior to 1850 or 1800 it was almost certainly completely unknown. Sure, there might be proxies — but the proxies are almost certainly both low resolution in time and subject to rather large errors that make them useless for the purpose of establishing probable truth as opposed to an argument that is plausible, that isn’t directly refuted by the data.
Finally, there is the problem of sunspots. Personally, I have thrown my hands up and at this point refuse to think about them — yet — as anything more than plausible factors in the climate. Again, the issue is the same thing — there have been multiple subtle changes in the ways sunspots have been counted over the years and decades, and while I think e.g. Lief’s efforts to go back and rationalize the sunspot counts using multiple consistent proxies is very reasonable, I also think that efforts to correct past data can only be undertaken with the full acceptance that the cost in possible error is always going to be a substantial chunk of the supposed improvement. I can’t go back in time and remeasure the “true” sunspot count consistent with modern instrumentation and methods in 1850, and neither can anybody else. You can just try to infer a consistent bias or error subject to various assumptions and then hope that your inference is correct. It can never be verified in the usual sense that scientific assertions or conclusions can be verified by independent observations. It’s too late for that.
That’s why I don’t offer any explanation for the 67 year period I can fit on top of the CO_2 model in the graph above. You might say that 67 years is the collective period of the PDO/AMO and/or the sun, but I’ve got the data more or less in my pocket for two out of the three, and no it is not. The PDO, in fact, if you actually plot is, isn’t particularly periodic or orderly, and adding the PDO index in any sort of simple model form to my fits above did not really improve them or correlate in any reasonable way to the global temperature data. Sunspots are less clear — they obviously don’t correlate on any sort of microscopic basis, but there has been so little variation over the 20th and 21st century up to now that if they have any sort of smoothed impact on climate, it is once again not possible to convincingly — to me — fit the data — by me. The good news is that the current solar cycle is going to be very low, and the “prediction” for the next one is to be even lower, and if there is a causal link to the climate we should know it any decade now.
That’s what I think about the climate in general. We’ll know a lot more about it quite soon. Any decade now. Fitting CO_2 to temperature isn’t very informative when CO_2 monotonically increases and global temperature, while not monotonic, has a corresponding increasing trend. We could fit that trend with the stock market and claim that the Dow Jones Industrial Average causes global warming just as easily. The difference that makes the former science and plausible and the latter funny is the physics of atmospheric radiation, which is well understood. I agree with you that the multidecadal oscillations are very likely major factors in global climate variation, and do not think at all that they are bounded by any sort of ceteris paribus argument in their effect. I also think that we have such a short reliable observational basis for understanding them and their effect that establishing that connection in a believable, quantitative way, might take anywhere from decades to centuries of observation and computation! After all, the system is chaotic. The entire pattern of these oscillations could easily shift, shift dramatically, even without anything perturbing the system. But we are kicking the shirt out of the system with a huge bolus of CO_2, and anything at all could happen as a consequence (including nothing interesting at all). Or it could shift tomorrow, and might have shifted tomorrow without the help of CO_2 (or might have shifted even earlier without the additional CO_2). We are — truly — clueless about this. Who would be surprised? Who predicted the Pacific Hot Spot that has emerged and now is apparently persisting for its second year? Who can predict its effect on the general PDO and other coupled oscillations and major heat transport mechanisms? Who can tell me whether it will vanish by July as mysteriously as it appeared or will persist for the next century, “permanently” altering the climate as much as anything in the climate can be said to be permanent?
That’s how unknown things are. Maybe you are right. Maybe not. Either way, I don’t think that you can prove that you are right any more than I think that you can easily be proven wrong. Time will tell, but it will probably take more time than I have years remaining in this life to find out, so I will reluctantly bow out of the argument pending more data or another lifetime.
rgb

Reply to  rgbatduke
April 26, 2015 4:27 pm

Time will tell. A this point that is where the situation stands. Nothing can be ruled in or out and that is the point I think you just made which I agree with.

April 23, 2015 1:39 pm

“This shows that the slowdown in global warming has no bearing on long-term projections – it is simply due to decadal variability. Greenhouse gases will eventually overwhelm this natural fluctuation,” said lead author and Chief Investigator with the ARC Centre of Excellence for Climate System Science, Prof Matthew England”
This is possible but the problem is that if you don’t understand the decadal variability(can’t pinpoint what is causing it and why) then you can’t quantify it’s contribution/weighting to global temperature fluctuations.
Plotting a graph of CO2 vs temperature during the past 150 years and drawing a long term trendline from beginning to end is the main case for CO2’s warming effect(besides the physics).
There have been several periods when the warming stopped, even cooled slightly for up to 30 years………then it resumed.
I would expect, all things being equal, using long term chart analysis, that the warming will resume at some point. If I was projecting the price of a stock or other measure, based purely on the chart, this is the conclusion.
All things are not equal however. All the physical relationships that were valid with CO2 at 280ppm, then 350ppm can’t be assumed to be the same with CO2 at 400ppm, then 450ppm.
How can we possibly make that assumption when all things have never remained equal in the past climate system?
Will all past variations be overwhelmed by increasing CO2?
This is possible but we only have speculative theories about what caused the past variations. We can’t even explain the physical causes of this decadel warming slow down or the modest cooling in the 50’s-70’s(other than ocean circulations and heat redistribution).
Changes in water vapor and clouds are not well understood. Maybe recent changes in the sun have nothing to do with recent climate………but it bothers me that many scientists are somehow positive of this. Another cycle with the sun similar to the last cycle will quiet those who think it is………or provide evidence of an effect
Wouldn’t it be nice if all we needed to do was to plug in the value for CO2 in the atmosphere to know what the global temperature was going to be.
The same side that insists on this also includes experts who completely rewrote climate history to wipe out the inconvenient Medieval Warm period because it showed natural warming equivalent to what we’ve experienced the past 150 years and the Little Ice Age that featured natural cooling that created severe adversity to life on this planet.
The same side that won’t give weight to the massive positive contributions of CO2 to atmospheric fertilization, with trillions of dollars worth of benefits.
Even if I wasn’t an operational meteorologist that sees we are NOT experiencing the big uptick in extreme weather/climate that one side insists is happening, how would I even be able to trust sources that I know are intentionally exaggerating and at times not telling much of the truth?
When its clear that somebody is intentionally misleading or claiming to have absolute knowledge or extremely high confidence about something that I know is impossible to have(even if they really think this), it causes me to spend extra time finding the authentic reasons for why they are wrong.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  Mike Maguire
April 23, 2015 4:02 pm

I get what you’re saying.
For instance there was no net warming from the start of the HADCRUT series until ~1935 (90 years) which is hard to reconcile with the Law Dome ice core CO2 record, given that at the lower concentrations CO2 is at its most potent as a greenhouse gas.
Similarly there was the 1940 – 1975 dip or hiatus depending on what to believe.
The ‘climateers’ would argue that is the way overwhelming CO2 forcing works (which doesn’t make sense) but if that’s the case, why aren’t there similar pauses in the model predictions/projections?

Reply to  Mike Maguire
April 24, 2015 8:30 am

Mr. Maguire,
Well said sir.
I think that statement of yours could be the last word ever said about this whole charade, and would sum things up very well.

Reply to  Mike Maguire
April 24, 2015 5:52 pm

Instead of spending time finding authentic reasons why they are wrong (it is likely that base case will be binary–one side will be right and one wrong), wouldn’t it be more important to understand the probability of being right or wrong and the risks/costs associated with each outcome? Last time I proposed this someone threw out hundreds of trillions, which is absurd since the costs are marginal and there are corresponding benefits (less asthma let’s say), and we are also comparing economic outcomes for a relatively narrow group of people passing through in a very inconsequential amount of time vs. a conceivable positive feed back loop catastrophe that last for centuries. In other words, when they write the history books 100-200 years from now (not books..I know), they will likely never mention GDP of 1.7 vs 2.8 if we take the action set with no gain or loss, but what will they write about what about when they assess the impact of a bunch bible thumping idiots who were driving 8k pound trucks to get a latte? The probability in that case is very that they won’t be kind.

Reply to  Mike Maguire
April 24, 2015 8:36 pm

Once I understood our limitations regarding our ability to properly survey climate systems, I began to relax. Yes its frustrating that certain zealots get so much air time, claiming to be confident that the earth is screwed. But its just fluff. We are miles away from making those kinds of claims.

cbsjr42
April 23, 2015 1:50 pm

So the “evidence” is comparing the models to each other? Seriously?

Michael Spurrier
April 23, 2015 1:52 pm

Careful these guys are getting smarter now fudging their predictions for a time when no-one alive will remember what they predicted anyway…….

Janice Moore
Reply to  Michael Spurrier
April 23, 2015 2:50 pm

For the same reason that Santa Claus has always lived at the North Pole, heh.

Reply to  Michael Spurrier
April 24, 2015 8:33 am

The other day I was wondering if the IPCC will be the Nostradamus of the 25th century.
People will try to read some meaning into their words, and much head scratching will ensue.

Ian Macdonald
April 23, 2015 2:22 pm

Well, I just got a personal invite from Mr Gore, to attend the Climate Reality Project in Iowa. It looks like he got my email address from some human rights campaigning work I did a while back. He says I can train to be a Climate Reality Leader, and learn all about climate science. Wow. So, they have science. I would never have imagined that.
I think you can guess my answer.

Reply to  Ian Macdonald
April 24, 2015 8:35 am

You should go, and show them what reality really means.