About that graph…

clip_image001This one:

The title “Battle of the Graphs” certainly lives on, even though it is approaching a decade in age, as there has been a lot of off-topic contention on this WUWT thread as well as a free-for-all bashing over at the “Stoat” a.k.a. William Connolley (who “takes science by the throat”, implying he is some sort of “tough guy”) saying that this graph that appeared in a Telegraph article was erroneous and created by Christopher Monckton.

Based on the simplest available evidence, I was ready to conclude, as were many, that indeed Monckton had created the graph, that it was in error, and that he had refused to admit to any of this.  I was ready to censure him myself, just as the over-the-top Stoaters wanted to do, probably so Connolley could direct a new denigrating Wikipedia entry as he is known to do (he’s not allowed to edit Wikipedia pages of living persons anymore, so he directs by proxy). Now, after further investigation I can tell you I was wrong, and so is Connolley.

If Monckton was wrong I certainly would’ve had no trouble pointing this out just as the Stoaters were doing, but I have one advantage that neither Monckton nor the Stoaters have: I have actually worked at a newspaper and I have submitted articles as a guest author to newspapers. So, I am familiar with the artwork process. Further, I have also published a number of articles from Monckton myself here and I am quite familiar with his style of producing graphs.

Thus, I noticed something about the Telegraph article that no one else seemed to.

WUWT commenter Kevin O’Neill, who also frequents Connolley’s website pointed out in this comment the charges against Monckton.

First let’s have a look at the article itself. The URL for it is:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1533290/Climate-chaos-Dont-believe-it.html

A screencap of the heading portion is shown below with the highlight done by me in yellow.

Telegraph_monckton_2006

Unfortunately the link under the yellow highlight no longer works and so for some it is impossible to check Monckton’s references and calculations that were included with the essay. We’ll get back to that in a moment, please read on.

Here is how the article presented the graph that is in contention, I have screen captured a portion of the original Telegraph article:

Telegraph_monckton_2006_graph

Several things immediately struck me as being out of place when I first saw the graph after reading about the contention surrounding it, here is a list.

  • The style (colors, font, etc) is not anything like I’ve ever seen from Monckton in all the graphs he has submitted to WUWT.
  • The horizontal lines on the bottom portion of the graph are obviously spaced incorrectly (the 20th century average line looks like it is incorrect on left axis) along with other cues in the plot line indicating to me that they were hand-drawn yet I’ve never gotten the graph from Monckton that was hand-drawn. Everything he has ever sent me has always been from a computer program output, thus the idea of having improperly spaced lines and coordinates a hand drawn plot didn’t make sense to me.
  • My experience with newspapers told me that this was likely a graph that was prepared by the art department of the UK Telegraph. You see, all major newspapers and even some middle and minor ones have an art department. And, when they get some sort of illustration from a guest author, or data from a government report, they almost always redraw it to fit the style and format of the newspaper. Especially the colors and the fonts.

Just look at any major newspaper in the United States like USA Today when they get in data from say, the Labor Department, they produce their own graphs of that data. They can also make grievous mistakes with such data in the way it is presented such as this article from Charles Apple (who watches newspapers and the graphics and photos they produce) demonstrates:

110706UsaTodayWeatherSnapshot02[1]

Obviously, neither the editor nor the artist saw the sexual suggestion in the imagery. I don’t blame the NWS or the Red Cross who provided the data, I blame Doyle Rice and Julie Snider. Note the references at the bottom of the graphic.

Here, USA Today took data from the National Weather Service and the American Red Cross and turned it into what is obviously a ridiculous graphic. It got past the editor, and made it into the final publication.

I noted such references to internal artists, editors, and sources were missing from the UK Telegraph article as seen in the screen cap further above, and it is this omission that I believe led many people to conclude that Monckton produced that graphic.

If you examine other graphics from the UK Telegraph, you will find that they do have such references but they are also similarly designed and of a similar size with similar fonts and colors. For example, look at this graphic from 2005 that has been redrawn, but no mention given of an internal reference to The Telegraph art department:

Telegraph_GW_2005Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4198339/Global-warming-will-bring-cooler-climate-for-UK.html

It is plainly obvious that is a graphic created by the newspaper and not by any scientific entity, otherwise it wouldn’t have the jagged shadow edges. So, the question surrounding the graph allegedly produced by Christopher Monckton is; did he included in the original list of references that he provided the Telegraph in that now missing link at the top of the original article? I’m happy to say I have found that original source file that Monckton provided to the Telegraph. It was lodged in the Wayback machine. I was able to find it simply by putting in the correct URL of the original Telegraph article as shown below:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090301000000*/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1533290/Climate-chaos-Dont-believe-it.htmlWayback_Monckton_telegraph

When you pull up the archive from 2009, the link appears for the PDF file of Monckton’s references but unfortunately it gives a 404 as seen below:

Wayback_Monckton_telegraph2

Oddly though if you click on  the LEFT MOST vertical lines  (circa 2007/2008) in the timeline above, the PDF will actually download, and that is what I did. For those of you that would doubt this you can go here and try it yourself:

Click to access warm-refs.pdf

And for posterity, here is a local link to the PDF of the References Monckton provided for the Telegraph article in 2006: warm-refs

If you open that PDF file you will notice a number of graphs and references including the graph from IPCC section 7 graph C. McIntyre speaks of its source here.

But no trace of the exact artwork combination as presented above appears in the Telegraph article is in Monckton’s reference PDF file, clearly indicating that the telegraph art department redrew that 1990 IPCC graph and the hockey stick graph, changing the top-bottom order. Below is page 6 from Monckton’s “warm-refs” PDF file, showing those graphs:

Monckton_Warm_refs_page6

While I was ready to condemn Monckton for producing a sloppy graph like many of these Stoaters, it is now abundantly clear to me that he did not draw it and the claims by these people are erroneous and simply mendacious.

Stoat/Connelley is simply flat wrong, and the website that cited Monckton’s graphic as an example of what not to do needs to clarify that it was the newspaper that made the errors, that the source graphs came from the IPCC, and that Monckton drew none of them.

All this breastbeating over something that can be simply researched as I have done is just a waste of everyone’s time.

Monckton prepared a rebuttal as well which I present below.

=================================================================

There comes a point …

By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Those of us who have raised questions about the magnitude of Man’s influence on climate have become used to the expensively funded, often carefully co-ordinated campaigns of personal vilification organized by adherents of the Climatist Party Line. Occasionally we growl a little. More often we refuse to be distracted. We carry on.

The purpose of these relentless attacks on us is not only to do us down but also to frighten off third parties who might otherwise find the courage to speak out and express their own doubts about the Party Line.

But there comes a point when it is necessary to take action. I hope no one will disagree that that point is reached when allegations of lying or fabrication are made; when the allegations are unquestionably false; when they are persisted in despite requests to cease and desist; and when they are widely disseminated in a manner calculated baselessly to cause maximum reputational damage.

Recently a commenter at Jo Nova’s blog posted several comments to the effect that I had “faked” a graph. I quickly asked Jo to replace them with a note to say legal proceedings were in train. Enough, I had decided, was enough.

Here is the diagram I was supposed to have “faked”:

clip_image001

This surely blameless diagram appeared alongside an article I had written for the Sunday Telegraph on 5 November 2006, the first time I ever went public on the climate question. The article went live on the internet at midnight on a Saturday night. Two hours later the Telegraph’s website crashed, for 127,000 people had tried to access the article.

Now, it is not the custom of UK newspapers to ask their contributors to illustrate their articles. As usual, I was not consulted and offered no advice on the matter, and had no hand in their production and no foreknowledge that they were to be used. The graphs are not labeled as having been sourced from the IPCC (indeed, one of the graphs has the shadow of a hockey stick overlaid on it and marked as the “IPCC ‘hockey stick’”, making it blindingly obvious that it is not an official IPCC’s graph).

The Telegraph’s graphs are simple and, it seems to me, harmless schematics illustrating the difference between the representations of 1000 years’ global temperatures as they appeared in the IPCC’s 2001 (top) and 1990 (bottom) reports.

The graph from p. 202 of the IPCC’s 1990 report now looks like this:

clip_image003

With the article I supplied some background material for Telegraph readers on its website. In that material, the IPCC’s 1990 graph also appeared, mistakenly captioned as 1996 rather than 1990. The graph as I reproduced it looked like this:

clip_image005

What I had not realized until very recently was that for several years allegations had been circulated all over the place to the effect that I had fabricated the graphs that had appeared in the Sunday Telegraph article. Yet not one of those who had made these allegations had ever contacted me to verify the facts. And not one of them had said what was wrong with the Telegraph’s graphs anyway.

Perhaps the worst of the many allegations of dishonesty against me appeared on a “science education” website, where an entire section under the bold heading “Misuse of scientific images” was devoted to the Telegraph’s graphs.

The offending section contained the following untruths:

  • Ø that in that article I had “disputed the concept of climate change” (Not that old chestnut again! I had accepted the concept but queried its likely magnitude);
  • Ø that the Telegraph’s graphs were instances of “poor use of graphical displays” that “can confuse and obscure data” (No, they neatly showed the main point: in 1990 the medieval warm period and little ice age were shown clearly, but by 2001 both had gone, and a sharp uptick in the 20th century had been added);
  • Ø that I had “created the [1990] graph on the bottom using different calculations that did not take into account all of the variables that climate scientists used to create the top graph” (No, I had not created either graph or done any calculations for such a graph);
  • Ø that I had deployed “common techniques used to distort visual forms of data – manipulating axes, changing one of the variables in a comparison, changing calculations without full explanation – that can obscure a true comparison” (No, none of the above); and
  • Ø that the article had been published in the Daily Telegraph (No, the Sunday Telegraph, and that suggests the website had never seen the original article but had picked up the libel from somewhere else).

I only discovered that this spectacularly inaccurate and profoundly damaging infestation of allegations when the commenter at Jo Nova’s site who had accused me of “faking” the graph mentioned on his own blog that I had not objected to the libel as it appeared on the science-education website. I had not objected because I had not known about it. No one at that website had thought to check any of the facts with me, or, as far as one can tell, with anyone else.

In short order a letter before action was sent to the website, which promptly did the right thing and took out the entire section, though there are indications that attempts are being made in some quarters – unsuccessfully so far – to get them to put it back up again.

I gave the commenter at Jo Nova’s website who had accused me of “faking” the graphs several chances to retract and apologize. Instead, he and several others sneeringly doubled down by accusing me of “lying” when I had said the graphs at the Telegraph website had not purported to be, and had not been labeled as, IPCC graphs.

They also alleged that the graph in my background materials accompanying the Telegraph article was “not the same graph” as that from the IPCC’s 1990 report: in effect, that I had “faked” that one as well. Judge that for yourselves from the two monochrome versions of the graph above. There seem to me to be no material differences, and I think it would be hard for the defendants to convince a court that there were any.

So I am going to court. My lawyers say the libels are plain and indefensible. They comment additionally that no judge would regard the schematics in the Telegraph (whoever had drawn them) as significantly misrepresenting the difference between the 1990 and 2001 reports’ images of the past millennium’s global temperature anomalies. As far as they can see, there is not a lot wrong with the graphs in any event.

I have told this story not only because some commenters here have been unwise enough to repeat in threads here the allegations they have made elsewhere but also because I thought it might be time to reveal the steps we have to take on an almost weekly basis to try to stem the tide of false allegations directed at us.

Nor am I by any means the only victim. For years, this shadowy Propagandaamt has been tampering with Fred Singer’s Wikipedia page to allege that he believes in Martians.

Niklas Mörner, the sea-level expert, has had his page got at on the ground that he sometimes dowses for water or other underground treasure. My late father once did that for the Maltese Government, and found three lost Punic tombs and a fine marble head of Seneca from the first century AD. My drawing of it (in the day before digital cameras) is probably still to be found somewhere in the Museum of Classical Archaeology at Cambridge. But I never had the knack for dowsing myself.

A pressure-group founded and funded by Prince Charles is prone to intervene to try (unsuccessfully, the last time they tried it on me) to prevent the publication of skeptical scientific papers in British learned journals.

A team of paid hacks telephones the Chancellor and the Dean of the Faculty at every university at which skeptics are invited to speak. About half the time, they succeed in getting us disinvited.

Journal editors are sacked for printing papers by skeptics.

However much one might hope that scientific discourse can be conducted in an open atmosphere of sensible dialog, the truth is that on the climate it can’t, because the extremists won’t play fair. The Politburo are determined to keep the scare going for just a little longer, till they can get the Treaty of Paris safely signed by all nations in December 2015.

So I am going to court to defend myself and, in so doing against the constant barrage of falsehoods told in support of the Party Line. We went to court against Al Gore because his movie was poisonous political propaganda dressed up as science.

We won. Nothing else but a court case would have worked. It was only when the department of education in London were confronted with 80 pages of scientific testimony, and knew that that testimony would stand up in court against all their falsehoods and evasions, that they caved in and settled, paying $400,000 to the plaintiffs and undertaking to circulate 77 pages of corrective guidance to every school in England.

In the present case, the other side has blinked thrice. On the website of my defamer, there is a nervous little note that he will not give me his name and address unless I answer various impertinent questions of his. The court will have no patience with any nonsense of that sort.

And there are now various postings at the same blog, again rather nervous, saying that perhaps they could plead that I don’t have a reputation and they can accuse me of whatever they like.

They will be unwise to take that line. For if they say I have no reputation they have to be able to come up with evidence that any material detrimental to my reputation on which they may try to rely is true. And most of it is no more accurate than their accusations that I “faked” a graph that I had plainly not faked. If they waste the court’s time with point after point that has nothing to do with the case at hand, they will merely aggravate the damages they will have to pay.

Finally, the perp has been unwise enough to admit that at the time when he made his allegation of “fakery” he did not know whether I had “faked” the graph or not. In the courts, to make a damaging and untrue allegation not knowing whether or not it is true is as culpable as making it when one knows it is not true. And there is no defense once that admission has been made. It has been made.

There is a curious and touching notion among some skeptics that, since the truth will of course prevail in the end, we should persevere with the scientific argument but not take the defamers and the scamsters to court. The feeling is that using the courts somehow isn’t cricket.

Sometimes, though, it’s necessary to play hardball. Being Valiant for Truth is not for wimps.

================================================================

UPDATE:

From comments, Steve McIntyre finds another version of the Lamb/IPCC AR1 1990 graph, which looks to me to be much closer to the graph used in the Telegraph article. This graph does NOT appear in Monkton’s PDF.

He writes in a comment:

The lower panel of the Telegraph diagram appears to have derived from (what appears to be) a variation of the Lamb graphic, a variation that I had not noticed until now. The variation appears in the following blog posts (and visually matches almost exactly):

LAMB_2ndversion

http://drtimball.com/2011/they-are-still-trying-to-rewrite-climate-to-show-current-conditions-are-abnormal/

http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.ca/2009/12/from-mann-paper-in-nature.html

Neither blog post provides a citation for the figure, but there are clues that should enable its exact provenance to be tracked down fairly quickly. It appears to be from a book about European climate and have been developed by Lamb. It is unclear why the Telegraph would have used this variation instead of the IPCC 1990 variation, but doubtless we will find out in due course.

UPDATE2:

Nick Stokes adds in comments (bold mine):

There is a version of that graph at the John Daly site here. The article does not seem to be dated, but Daly is indicated as the author, which would make it 2004 or earlier. No source given.

Here is the graph from John Daly’s website, listed as figure 4:

And here is the Metadata, dating the creation of it precisely to Feb 10, 2004, two years before Monckton’s article in the Telegraph.

(right click on image at Daly’s website here to verify yourself)

John-Daly-Metadata-1000yrs

Nick Stokes adds in a second comment:

Steve McIntyre says: July 3, 2014 at 12:12 pm

“The lower panel of the Telegraph diagram appears to have derived from (what appears to be) a variation of the Lamb graphic, a variation that I had not noticed until now.”

Here, on the Wayback machine, is a version from 2001 on the John Daly site.

And the screencap:

John-Daly-solar-2001-wayback

Since Daly’s graph is a near perfect match for the one in the Telegraph, and appears as far back as April 21, 2001, and Monckton did not provide it in his PDF to the Telegraph, I’d say “case closed”.

UPDATE3:

There is some whingeing from Kevin O’Neill in comments that Figure 7.1c from IPCC AR1 WG1 chapter 7 (available here: http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/far/wg_I/ipcc_far_wg_I_chapter_07.pdf ) was not “faithfully” reproduced in my article, even though I made a reference to a technical discussion at Climate Audit on that specific graph and the exact figure appears no less than 3 times in the essay split between my own and Monckton’s

If you open that PDF file you will notice a number of graphs and references including the graph from IPCC section 7 graph C. McIntyre speaks of its source here.

To satisfy such whingeing, here is the exact page from IPCC AR1 WG1 chapter 7, followed by a magnified view of figure 7.1 (including graphs A,B, and C) in case Mr. O’Neill wants to claim “a magnified version is needed for readers with poor eyesight” as part of his game. I challenge him and readers to find any material difference between the graphs below taken directly from the IPCC WG1 Chapter 7 page 202 and those in the essay.

 

IPCC_FAR_Figure 7-1_page202

Magnified figure 7.1abc:

IPCC_FAR_Figure 7-1abc

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July 8, 2014 3:07 pm

> the many falsehoods you have put on wicki [sic]
You’re long on accusations but short on details or evidence.
I’ve put no falsehoods on wiki (unlike the comment I was responding to, which is a simple lie, and which you can’t defend). But if you have any examples you’d care to quote of things you consider falsehoods, I’d be happy to discuss them.

J Murphy
July 8, 2014 4:41 pm

I’m also still looking for an answer from anyone as to what 50 or 100 year period during the MWP was globally and contemporaneously warmer than the last 50 or 100 years.

July 8, 2014 4:56 pm

It’s not just the MWP that has to be denied to be global but also the Little Ice Age. For to accept there could have been a two degree Celsius global temperature drop in the LIA, would put one in the uncomfortable position of explaining why a 2 degree drop could happen globally but not a 2 degree rise.
Bob Clark

July 8, 2014 6:08 pm

Robert Clark says:
It’s not just the MWP that has to be denied to be global but also the Little Ice Age.
True; the alarmist cult cannot admit that global temperatures changed prior to the industrial revolution, because if they admitted that, their entire belief system would come crashing down.
J Murphy seems ignorant of the fact that prior to any significant changes in CO2, global T changed quite a bit. That graph is from a credible, peer reviewed, widely cited source. It clearly shows that during the current Holocene, global temperatures were far higher than now. And this graph shows that the current climate is nothing special; temperatures have been much warmer — and colder — than now.
The alarmist crowd doesn’t have any credible science to back up their assertions. They believe that by saying something, reality will conform. Reality doesn’t work that way. The alarmist crowd is simply wrong.
Then, when their assertions crash and burn, they go all ad hominem, which shows that they’ve abandoned all science-based argument. Pathetic, no?

milodonharlani
July 8, 2014 6:19 pm

J Murphy says:
July 8, 2014 at 4:41 pm
Maybe you should have looked a little harder, as at the dozens of studies that have been cited in this blog showing the MWP globally warmer than now. Ditto the Roman & Minoan Warm Periods & of course the Holocene Optimum & the previous interglacial, the Eemian, as also was the long MIS 11 interglacial.
I’ve already shown Lamb’s figures for the CET, in which at least AD 1100-1400 was warmer than 1950-2000 & since then. If anything it was warmer longer in most of China, for instance:
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2013/08/new-review-paper-finds-medieval-warming.html

JBL
July 8, 2014 6:22 pm

“It is a matter of record that you were banned in the past.”
“Banned” means something particular on WP. That particular thing does not apply to Connolley, nor has it ever done. You pretend to care so much about this non-factoid, but you can’t be bothered to understand what you’re talking about!

milodonharlani
July 8, 2014 6:25 pm

Which facts are of course why the Team needed to “get rid of the MWP” in order to protect its cushy, jet-set, grant-fed life style.

milodonharlani
July 8, 2014 6:30 pm

RACookPE1978 says:
July 8, 2014 at 5:52 am
No, the MWP wouldn’t behave the same everywhere, as I’ve pointed out in other comments. What matters though is that its signal can be detected essentially everywhere real scientists have looked for it, although not always with the same set of climatic parameters. Tropics, temperate & high latitude, coastal & continental, mountain & plain, not to mention various regions of sea & ocean, would react somewhat differently in T, precip, winds, what have you.
Globally, however, in so far as a paleo-GASTA can be determined, it was warmer. Glaciers are an obvious indicator, out of many.
[GASTA = Global Annual Surface Temperature Average? .mod]

milodonharlani
July 8, 2014 6:32 pm

J Murphy says:
July 8, 2014 at 12:02 am
Please state why you find the other dozens of links incredible. There are lots more where they came from. What makes you impervious to overwhelming evidence?
Thanks.

richardscourtney
July 9, 2014 12:02 am

Anonymous sock puppet posting as JBL:
At July 8, 2014 at 6:22 pm you write saying in total

“It is a matter of record that you were banned in the past.”
“Banned” means something particular on WP. That particular thing does not apply to Connolley, nor has it ever done. You pretend to care so much about this non-factoid, but you can’t be bothered to understand what you’re talking about!

That is some of the most dismal sock puppetry ever!
Nobody was talking about WP. It was about the despicable C0nn0lley being banned from making edits on wicki.
I “pretend” nothing. I said the fact you have quoted, and I asked a clear question for clarification. You pretend that I “don’t understand” what you have completely misrepresented.
And I add that C0nn0lley claimed to not use sock puppets, but you – one of his anonymous sock puppets – turn up here to obfuscate his guilt by trying to divert attention from the facts.
Richard

J Murphy
July 9, 2014 2:53 am

dbstealey, since the only credible link in your last post was a graph of Greenland temperatures created using data from the NOAA/NGDC Paleoclimatology Program, it must be presumed that you accept them as being a reliable source. And what do they say, with all their studies of Paleoclimate? This:
–“The similarity of characteristics among the different paleoclimatic reconstructions provides confidence in the following important conclusions:
Dramatic warming has occurred since the 19th century.
The recent record warm temperatures in the last 15 years are indeed the warmest temperatures the Earth has seen in at least the last 1000 years, and possibly in the last 2000 years.”
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/paleolast.html
They should know, right?
And they also seem to know that temperatures can change without human influence (just as forest fires can happen without humans causing them):
–“Few people contest the idea that some of the recent climate changes are likely due to natural processes, such as volcanic eruptions, changes in solar luminosity, and variations generated by natural interactions between parts of the climate system (for example, oceans and the atmosphere). There were significant climate changes before humans were around and there will be non-human causes of climate change in the future.
The paleo record also tells us how much temperature change occurred in the past when carbon dioxide levels were different. Studies show that the 100 ppm reduction in carbon dioxide during the last glacial was accompanied by a 3°C cooling in the western tropical oceans. This amount of temperature change is consistent with the change predicted by numerical climate model simulations.”
(http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/end.html)
milodonharlani, you state:
—“I’ve already shown Lamb’s figures for the CET, in which at least AD 1100-1400 was warmer than 1950-2000 & since then.”
If you look at the Met Office website (http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/data/download.html) you will find the data for 1950 onwards. At least for the most recent period so far (2000-2013), the yearly average is 10.2, equal to the 1150 to 1300 period from Lamb. And if you look at the figures produced in accordance with the CET series produced by Gordon Manley in 1974 (http://www.climate-uk.com/provisional.htm), the yearly average is 10.3, i.e. higher.
And I base my opinion on evidence and the science, which is why I rely on the vast amount of evidence given in the credible links I have posted, from the one from NOAA shown in this post, to the link in a previous post from the NRC – http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11676&page=R1
Even the Wikipedia link I gave has links to lots of other links, giving lots of evidence. I accept the facts based on the overwhelming scientific evidence produced in the scientific literature. Why can’t everyone?

July 9, 2014 4:52 am

> Anonymous sock puppet posting as JBL… And I add that C0nn0lley claimed to not use sock puppets, but you – one of his anonymous sock puppets
I have no connection to JBL. Your assertion that he is a sock of mine is false. You made it up out of thin air. You have no evidence for it, you know you have no evidence for it, but that doesn’t stop you. Perhaps you should pause to think: how many of your other assertions are of the same form?
>> the many falsehoods you have put on wicki [sic]
> You’re long on accusations but short on details or evidence…. But if you have any examples you’d care to quote of things you consider falsehoods, I’d be happy to discuss them.
Oh look, another example of something you’ve just made up out of thin air and then just run away from when challenged.

richardscourtney
July 9, 2014 6:46 am

J Murphy:
re your post at July 9, 2014 at 2:53 am.
You have again cited the C0n0lley-corrupted wicki despite several people telling you why that is no source of any worth.
You have claimed ignorance of what has been done to wicki.
If you are truly as ignorant as you claim then perhaps you would benefit from accepting the references of people who do know what they are talking about.
Richard

July 9, 2014 7:11 am

J Murphy says:
…since the only credible link in your last post…
Thank you for your baseless assertion. But just because you don’t like a particular chart is due only to the fact that it easily deconstructs your alarmist nonsense. Both charts have their provenance within them; feel free to write the authors if you disagree with their data.
You say:
Dramatic warming has occurred since the 19th century.
But as my links both show, dramatic warming during the Holocene is normal and natural. The 19th Century is not exceptional. What you are attempting to do is cherry-pick a recent warming episode, and claiming it is unusual. It is not, as the charts I posted make very clear. Everything being observed now has happened repeatedly in the past, and to a greater degree. Nothing happening now is either unusual or unprecedented.
Your argument doesn’t hold water. It fails. Everything being currently observed is a further confirmation of the climate Null Hypothesis, which has never been falsified.
You don’t even know what the Null Hypothesis is, do you? Really, you don’t know anything, you just parrot the nonsense you get from alarmist blogs. You say:
…I base my opinion on evidence and the science…
You really are amusing. You just don’t know it.

J Murphy
July 9, 2014 7:24 am

Oh, well: it looks like no-one can come up with a 50 or 100 year period during the MWP which was globally and simultaneously warmer than the last 50 or 100 years. It seems that the scientific evidence presented on the NOAA site is correct, but that should be no surprise, I suppose:
“The recent record warm temperatures in the last 15 years are indeed the warmest temperatures the Earth has seen in at least the last 1000 years, and possibly in the last 2000 years.”
(http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/end.html)

July 9, 2014 7:57 am

dbstealey says:
July 8, 2014 at 6:08 pm
J Murphy seems ignorant of the fact that prior to any significant changes in CO2, global T changed quite a bit. That graph is from a credible, peer reviewed, widely cited source. It clearly shows that during the current Holocene, global temperatures were far higher than now. And this graph shows that the current climate is nothing special; temperatures have been much warmer — and colder — than now.

Since those graphs do not contain any data from the last 158 years it obviously says nothing about the ‘current climate’. The first one is not ‘credible’ since it has a mislabeled time axis, as has been shown on here multiple occasions, in fact a whole thread was devoted to it.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/13/crowdsourcing-the-wuwt-paleoclimate-reference-page-disputed-graphs-alley-2000/
The conclusion was that the Lappi graph you cited was ” Classification: Incorrect – Move to Incorrect/Falsified Graphs section – Label Incorrect Graph – The x axis label, “Years Before Present (2000 AD)”, should read Years Before Present (1950 AD)”

richardscourtney
July 9, 2014 8:03 am

J Murphy:
At July 9, 2014 at 7:24 am you lie saying

Oh, well: it looks like no-one can come up with a 50 or 100 year period during the MWP which was globally and simultaneously warmer than the last 50 or 100 years.

Bollocks!
I answered that when you first posed it!

My answer is at July 7, 2014 at 7:39 am and this link jumps to it. It concludes saying

So the answers to your question can be read from that graph and are
Yes, and, the period was between 1100 and 1300 AD.

Your egregious response is at July 7, 2014 at 11:21 am. It disputes my factual answer saying

richardscourtney, that paper defines it as 800–1300AD as far as I can tell, which is still a wide spread. Couldn’t find any 50 or 100 year periods where the warmth was contemporaneous throughout the globe. In fact, there seems to be a rather large area of the globe missing:

“The figures graphically emphasize the shortage of climatic information extending back to the Medieval Warm Period for at least 7 geographical zones: the Australian and Indian continents, the SE Asian archipelago, large parts of Eastern Europe/Russia, the Middle Eastern deserts, the tropical African and South American lowlands (although the large number of available borehole-heat flow measurements in Australia seems adequate for the reconstruction of ground temperatures back to medieval times; see Huang et al. 2000). Therefore, our conclusions are provisional.”

So I can’t see how it can be claimed that there was a globally warmer period during the Medieval Warm Period than now.t

That response is plain daft and it resulted in much debate which I did not enter because your reply was so risible that I did not think there was a need to reply to it. However, since you now claim I did not answer your question, I am now addressing your silly excuses for ignoring my answer.
There are several sequential periods of “50 or 100 years” between “1100 and 1300 AD”. You try to pretend that the global medieval warm period (MWP) should be “800–1300AD” but that disagrees with the findings of Soon&Baliunas which I quoted. However, “800–1300AD” contains more sequential periods of “50 or 100 years” than “1100 and 1300 AD”.
The of Soon&Baliunas paper provides proper caveats and, therefore, it lists the parts of the globe which do not have specific temperature determinations for the MWP. It seems unlikely that those regions did not show contemporaneous warming with the rest of the world. But so what? The issue is that global average surface temperature anomaly (GASTA) was at least as high in the MWP as it is now.
Not all regions are included in compilations of GASTA today, and many places have shown cooling while GASTA has risen. There is no reason to suppose the global warming of the MWP did not contain cooling regions, too.
Soon&Baliunas rightly say that their findings are “provisional” because it is possible that additional data may become available. Similarly, modern versions of GASTA are provisional; indeed, they change almost every month and the changes have been severe, see this.
I gave you the answer to your question when you asked it, but the truth could not be digested by your prejudice so you refused to consume it.
Richard

JBL
July 9, 2014 8:41 am

“Nobody was talking about WP. It was about … wicki.”
Christ you’re a moron. What do you think “WP” is an abbreviation for in a discussion about Wikipedia? (Here, I will spell it out for you so your two brain cells don’t trip over each other so much.)
This is not hard at all: there is something called “banned” on Wikipedia. William Connolley (who is not me, though I do sometimes read and comment on his blog) has been subject to various sanctions on Wikipedia over the years, but banning is not among them. If you knew even the tiniest bit about Wikipedia, you would understand this. You seem to be too lazy to learn what you’re talking about and too nasty to care about the dishonesty, but really it would take about 15 minutes to know enough to stop making this stupid error, if you wanted to. Then you could continue bashing WMC (do I need to spell that out, too?) without simultaneously making a fool of yourself by getting trivial “facts” wrong.

richardscourtney
July 9, 2014 10:23 am

Sock puppet posting as JBL:
At July 9, 2014 at 8:41 am you ask me

What do you think “WP” is an abbreviation for in a discussion about Wikipedia?

I answer that WP is an abbreviation for Word Press when it is posted on a Word Press platform and is not stated to be otherwise.
But a sock puppet for C0n0lley could claim it is an abbreviation for anything with a w and a p in its title because that is the kind of excuse he makes for altering wicki so it contains falsehoods.
Thankyou for your clear demonstration of the technique.
Richard

J Murphy
July 9, 2014 10:51 am

richardscourtney, you say:
—“You try to pretend that the global medieval warm period (MWP) should be “800–1300AD” but that disagrees with the findings of Soon&Baliunas which I quoted. However, “800–1300AD” contains more sequential periods of “50 or 100 years” than “1100 and 1300 AD”.”
I’m not quite sure what is happening here, because I have not tried to pretend anything and have only given the date-range as I understood it from the S&B paper. But maybe I should post a quote from the paper – perhaps that will help:
“Is there an objectively discernible climatic anomaly during the Medieval Warm Period, defined as
800–1300? This definition is motivated by e.g. Pfister et al. (1998) and Broecker (2001), and is a slight modification of Lamb’s original study (1965).”
Those date-ranges are mentioned on pages 2, 4, 8 and 10, so they are rather difficult to miss.
Perhaps that can end any further unwarranted accusations of pretence.
Anyway, I can find nowhere in that paper where they claim a global, contemporaneous MWP warmer than recent times but, in case I missed it in that paper, once again I will ask if someone can provide a 50 or 100 year period, either from that paper or others like it, that shows a global, contemporaneous period in the MWP that is warmer than the last 50 or 100 years. Anyone?

milodonharlani
July 9, 2014 11:15 am

J Murphy says:
July 9, 2014 at 2:53 am
You most certainly do not base your opinion on science.
Did you even look at your own data? The average in Manley’s CET was 9.76 degrees C for the period 1971 to 2000. How then could the 50 years 1951 to 2000 possibly be over ten degrees, when the 1950s & ’60s were cooler than the ’80s & ’90s?
You asked about 50 year periods, not single years. If the average for a 50 year period in the MWP was, say, 10.2 degrees, then surely there were a lot of years warmer than that, so comparing annual data now to an average then won’t cut it.
We don’t yet know what the current half century will end up being, but warmer than the long stretch of warmth in the MWP it probably will not be.
Your question has been answered & you’ve tried to weasel your way out of the answer you didn’t like, but failed.

milodonharlani
July 9, 2014 11:19 am

J Murphy says:
July 9, 2014 at 10:51 am
You’ve already repeatedly been shown that the MWP was warmer than now. Your response has been to, well, lie on the one hand while disallowing numerous studies without saying why you find them faulty.
The fact is that from every ocean & every continent the inescapable conclusion is that the MWP was warmer than the Modern Warm Period. Moreover, the Roman Warm Period was warmer than the MWP & the Minoan was warmer than the Roman.
Data from all around the world show that our planet has been in a cooling trend for over 3000 years, to include Antarctica, where the WAIS quit retreating about that time, as shown by radionuclide decay in soil exposed at the ice sheet edge. Tree studies from the northern high latitudes show the same, along with all climatic zones in between.
Sorry, but you lose. Real science wins.

richardscourtney
July 9, 2014 11:31 am

J Murphy:
Your post at July 9, 2014 at 10:51 am purports to be an answer to my post at July 9, 2014 at 8:03 am.
You conclude that pretence of a reply by writing

Anyway, I can find nowhere in that paper where they claim a global, contemporaneous MWP warmer than recent times but, in case I missed it in that paper, once again I will ask if someone can provide a 50 or 100 year period, either from that paper or others like it, that shows a global, contemporaneous period in the MWP that is warmer than the last 50 or 100 years. Anyone?

There can be no more clear example of your habit of pretending other than reality because my post that purports to reply had answered that saying

The of Soon&Baliunas paper provides proper caveats and, therefore, it lists the parts of the globe which do not have specific temperature determinations for the MWP. It seems unlikely that those regions did not show contemporaneous warming with the rest of the world. But so what? The issue is that global average surface temperature anomaly (GASTA) was at least as high in the MWP as it is now.
Not all regions are included in compilations of GASTA today, and many places have shown cooling while GASTA has risen. There is no reason to suppose the global warming of the MWP did not contain cooling regions, too.

You have had several different answers from three different people but you persist in pretending your question has not been answered. Why?
Richard

July 9, 2014 12:32 pm

Anonymous Phil. says:
Since those graphs do not contain any data from the last 158 years…
Well then, AP, let me help you and J Murphy out. Global warming has stopped.
Those are current. Got more data sets if you want ’em.
Oh, and BTW: the MWP was global. Deal with it.

JBL
July 9, 2014 3:27 pm

richardscourtney, very good, you managed to read the first half of my post without getting stuck this time. Perhaps at some point you will read the second half.