Maunder and Dalton Sunspot Minima

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

In a recent interchange over at Joanne Nova’s always interesting blog, I’d said that the slow changes in the sun have little effect on temperature. Someone asked me, well, what about the cold temperatures during the Maunder and Dalton sunspot minima? And I thought … hey, what about them? I realized that like everyone else, up until now I’ve just accepted the idea of cold temperatures being a result of the solar minima as an article of faith … but I’d never actually looked at the data. And in any case, I thought, what temperature data would we have for the Maunder sunspot minimum, which lasted from 1645 to 1715? So … I went back to the original sources, which as always is a very interesting ride, and I learned a lot.

It turns out that this strong association of sunspot minima and temperature  is a fairly recent development. Modern interest in the Maunder sunspot minimum was sparked by John Eddy’s 1976 publication of a paper in Science entitled “The Maunder Minimum”. In that paper, Eddy briefly discusses the question of the relationship between the Maunder sunspot minimum and the global temperature, viz:

The coincidence of Maunder’s “prolonged solar minimum” with the coldest excursion of the “Little Ice Age” has been noted by many who have looked at the possible relations between the sun and terrestrial climate (73). A lasting tree-ring anomaly which spans the same period has been cited as evidence of a concurrent drought in the American Southwest (68, 74). There is also a nearly 1 : 1 agreement in sense and time between major excursions in world temperature (as best they are known) and the earlier excursions of the envelope of solar behavior in the record of 14C, particularly when a 14C lag time is allowed for: the Sporer Minimum of the 16th century is coincident with the other severe temperature dip of the Little Ice Age, and the Grand Maximum coincides with the “medieval Climatic Optimum” of the 11th through 13th centuries (75, 76). These coincidences suggest a possible relationship between the overall envelope of the curve of solar activity and terrestrial climate in which the 11-year solar cycle may be effectively filtered out or simply unrelated to the problem. The mechanism of this solar effect on climate may be the simple one of ponderous long-term changes of small amount in the total radiative output of the sun, or solar constant. These long-term drifts in solar radiation may modulate the envelope of the solar cycle through the solar dynamo to produce the observed long-term trends in solar activity. The continuity, or phase, of the 11-year cycle would be independent of this slow, radiative change, but the amplitude could be controlled by it. According to this interpretation, the cyclic coming and going of sunspots would have little effect on the output of solar radiation, or presumably on weather, but the long-term envelope of sunspot activity carries the indelible signature of slow changes in solar radiation which surely affect our climate (77). [see paper for references]

Now, I have to confess, that all struck me as very weak, with more “suggest” and “maybe” and “could” than I prefer in my science. So I thought I’d look to see where he was getting the temperature data to support his claims. It turns out that he was basing his opinion of the temperature during the Maunder minimum on a climate index from H. H. Lamb, viz:

The Little Ice Age lasted roughly from 1430 to 1850 … if we take H. H. Lamb’s index of Paris London Winter Severity as a global indicator.

After some searching, I found the noted climatologist H. H. Lamb’s England winter severity index in his 1965 paper The Early Medieval Warm Epoch And Its Sequel. He doesn’t give the values for his index, but I digitized his graph. Here are Lamb’s results, showing the winter severity in England. Lower values mean more severe winters.

So let me pose you a small puzzle. Knowing that Eddy is basing his claims about a cold Maunder minimum on Lamb’s winter severity index … where in Lamb’s winter severity index would you say that we would find the Maunder and Dalton minima? …

lamb england winter index wo datesFigure 1. H.H. Lamb’s index of winter severity in England.

As you can see, there is a reasonable variety in the severity of the winters in England. However, it is not immediately apparent just where in there we might find the Maunder and Dalton minima, although there are several clear possibilities. So to move the discussion along, let me reveal where they are:

lamb england winter index wrong datesFigure 2. As in Figure 1, but with the dates of the Maunder and Dalton minima added.

As we might expect, the Maunder minimum is the coldest part of the record. The Dalton minimum is also cold, but not as cold as the Maunder minimum, again as we’d expect. Both of them have warmer periods both before and after the minima, illustrating the effect of the sun on the … on the … hang on … hmmm, that doesn’t look right … let me check my figures …

… uh-oh

Well, imagine that. I forgot to divide by the square root of minus one, so I got the dates kinda mixed up, and I put both the Maunder and the Dalton 220 years early … here are the actual dates of the solar minima shown in Lamb’s winter severity index.

lamb england winter index w datesFigure 3. H.H. Lamb’s England winter severity index, 1100-1950, overlaid with the actual dates of the four solar minima ascribed to that period. Values are decadal averages 1100-1110,1110-1120, etc., and are centered on the decade.

As you can see …

• The cooling during the Wolf minimum is indistinguishable from the two immediately previous episodes of cooling, none of which get much below the overall average.

• The temperature during the Sporer minimum is warmer than the temperature before and after the minimum.

• The coldest and second coldest decades in the record were not associated with solar minima.

• The fastest cooling in the record, from the 1425 decade to the 1435 decade, also was not associated with a solar minimum.

• Contrary to what we’d expect, the Maunder minimum warmed from start to finish.

• The Dalton minimum is unremarkable in any manner other than being warmer than the decade before the start and the decade after the end of the minimum. Oh, and like the Maunder, it also warmed steadily over the period of the minimum.

Urk … that’s what Eddy based his claims on. Not impressed.

Let me digress with a bit of history. I began this solar expedition over a decade ago thinking, along with many others, that as they say, “It’s the sun, stupid!”. I, and many other people, took it as an unquestioned and unexamined “fact” that the small variations of the sun, both the 11-year cycles and the solar minima, had a discernible effect on the temperature. As a result, I spent endless hours investigating things like the barycentric movement of the sun. I went so far as to write a spreadsheet to calculate the barycentric movement for any period of history, and compared those results to the temperatures.

But the more I looked, the less I found. So I started looking at the various papers claiming that the 11-year cycle was visible in various climate datasets … still nothing. To date, I’ve written up and posted the results of my search for the 11-year cycle in global sea levels, the Central England Temperature record, sea surface temperatures, tropospheric temperatures, global surface temperatures, rainfall amounts, the Armagh Observatory temperatures, the Armagh Observatory daily temperature ranges, river flows, individual tidal stations, solar wind, the 10Beryllium ice core data, and some others I’ve forgotten … nothing.

Not one of them shows any significant 11-year cycle.

And now, for the first time I’m looking at temperature effects of the solar minima … and I’m in the same boat. The more I look, the less I find.

However, we do have some actual observational evidence for the time period of the most recent of the minima, the Dalton minimum, because the Berkeley Earth temperature record goes back to 1750. And while the record is fragmentary and based on a small number of stations, it’s the best we have, and it is likely quite good for comparison of nearby decades. In any case, here are those results:

berkeley earth land temperature plus daltonFigure 4. The Berkeley Earth land temperature anomaly data, along with the Dalton minimum.

Once again, the data absolutely doesn’t support the idea of the sun ruling the temperature. IF the sun indeed caused the variations during the Dalton minimum, it first made the temperature rise, then fall, then rise again to where it started … sorry, but that doesn’t look anything like what we’d expect. For example, if the low spot around 1815 is caused by low solar input, then why does the temperature start rising then, and rise steadily until the end of the Dalton minimum, while the solar input is not rising at all?

So once again, I can’t find evidence to support the theory. As a result, I will throw the question open to the adherents of the theory … what, in your estimation, is the one best piece of temperature evidence that shows that the solar minima cause cold spells?

Now, a few caveats. First, I want to enlist your knowledge and wisdom in the search, so please just give me your one best shot. I’m not interested in someone dumping the results of a google search for “Maunder” on my desk. I want to know what YOU think is the very best evidence that solar minima cause global cooling.

Next, don’t bother saying “the Little Ice Age is the best evidence”. Yes, the Maunder occurred during the Little Ice Age (LIA). But the Lamb index says that the temperature warmed from the start of the Maunder until the end. Neither the Maunder’s location, which was quite late in the LIA, nor the warming Lamb shows from the start to the end of the Maunder, support the idea that the sun caused the LIA cooling.

Next, please don’t fall into the trap of considering climate model results as data. The problem, as I have shown in a number of posts, is that the global temperature outputs of the modern crop of climate models are nothing but linear transforms of their inputs. And since the models include solar variations among their inputs, those solar variations will indeed appear in the model outputs. If you think that is evidence for solar forcing of temperature … well, this is not the thread for you. So no climate model results, please.

So … what do you think is the one very best piece of evidence that the solar minima actually do affect the temperature, the evidence that you’d stand behind and defend?

My regards to you all,

w.

[UPDATE] In the comments, someone said that the Central England Temperature record shows the cooling effects of the solar minima … I’m not finding it:

As you can see, there is very little support for the “solar minima cause cool temperatures” hypothesis in the CET. Just as in the Lamb winter severity data and the Berkeley Earth data, during both the Dalton and Maunder minima we see the temperature WARMING for the last part of the solar minimum. IF the cause is in fact a solar slump … then why would the earth warm up while the sun is still slumping? And in particular, in the CET the Dalton minimum ends up quite a bit warmer than it started … how on earth does this support the “solar slump” claim, that at the end of the Dalton minimum it’s warmer than at the start?

The Usual Request: I know this almost never happens, but if you disagree with something that I or someone else has said, please have the common courtesy to QUOTE THEIR EXACT WORDS that you disagree with. This prevents much confusion and misunderstanding.

Data: Eddy’s paper, The Maunder Minimum

Lamb’s paper, The Early Medieval Warm Epoch And Its Sequel

Berkeley Earth, land temperature anomalies

The climate data they don't want you to find — free, to your inbox.
Join readers who get 5–8 new articles daily — no algorithms, no shadow bans.
0 0 votes
Article Rating
1K Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
milodonharlani
June 26, 2014 4:32 pm

kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:
June 26, 2014 at 4:15 pm
Did you also Google him? You’d find lots of hits in which CACA advocates attack Tony Brown of Climate Reason by name, plus his posts & comments on this & other well-known climate blogs.
Besides which, Tony resides atop WUWT Paleoclimate Pages:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/global-weather-climate/paleoclimate/

milodonharlani
June 26, 2014 4:37 pm

kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:
June 26, 2014 at 3:44 pm
That’s not how he works in my experience. If a poster makes a claim contrary to the findings of dozens (at least) of scientists based upon analysis of a handful (at most) of papers or data sets, then IMO he or she should examine all relevant suggested studies. That’s why standard scientific paper format includes a literature survey section, which SOP Willis specifically declined to follow in his second published paper. He also relied on far too small a data set for his paper.
Nor does it explain why he ignored repeated requests from George Smith.

milodonharlani
June 26, 2014 4:41 pm

Tonyb says:
June 26, 2014 at 3:12 pm
If memory fails, then a simple Google search of “WUWT & Tony Brown” would have sufficed to jog Pamela & Willis’ memories, since both have commented in your past posts & replied to your comments in those &/or others.
Doing so yields “about 26,300 results (in) 0.75 seconds”. Not all may refer to you, of course.

Konrad
June 26, 2014 4:56 pm

Greg Goodman says:
June 26, 2014 at 10:04 am
———————————
“Those then get deeper will not directly cause evaporation but will contribute to a long term rise in SST.”
And Dr. S responded –
“As whatever gets deeper scales directly with TSI and the sunspot number we only have to consider those variables.”
Did I say the continuous bleating about TSI was disingenuous? And bingo, there it is on full display.
We only have to consider TSI and SSN? Utter tripe. Surface UV may have increased as much as 20% since 1978. As ocean depth increases UV becomes a greater component of radiation heating at that depth. Therefore the 0.1% variance in TSI can not be used as a measure of how much solar absorption varies in the accumulation layers of the ocean. Below 50m variances of up to 2 w/m2 can easily be occurring.
Greg, if you read back over this thread, you will notice there has been no scientific rebuttal of the mechanism of UV variation below the thermocline effecting ocean energy accumulation. Just the usual panicked “No, no, no..” and then the scuttle back to “TSI, TSI, TSI..”

June 26, 2014 4:58 pm

Willis said:
“And in particular, in the CET the Dalton minimum ends up quite a bit warmer than it started …”
I understood that Dalton was solar cycles 5 & 6, that would be from 1798 to 1823.
CET annual 1798 to 1823: http://snag.gy/TrB1G.jpg

June 26, 2014 6:12 pm

Konrad says:
June 26, 2014 at 4:56 pm
Did I say the continuous bleating about TSI was disingenuous? And bingo, there it is on full display…We only have to consider TSI and SSN? Utter tripe. Surface UV may have increased as much as 20% since 1978.
The Magnesium II index [MgII] is an excellent proxy for the UV flux in the region 160-400 nm, both on short and on long time scales: http://www.leif.org/EOS/MgII-index.pdf
We have an excellent reord of the MgII index since satellite measurements started in 1978.
The MgII-index follows the SSN and TSI closely, see e.g. http://www.leif.org/EOS/Froehlich.pdf
so, as I said, as TSI and SSN vary, so does UV.

u.k.(us)
June 26, 2014 6:48 pm

Pamela Gray says:
June 26, 2014 at 2:43 pm
On this sidenote: I’ve been here for quite a few years. Who the hell is tonyb??? And now that I know his name, who the hell is Tony Brown??? And now that I know his blog’s name, who or what the hell is climatereason??? Do I want to know?
Nope. But apparently he does. That’s a man with not a lot of shit to do.
==============
I ain’t got shit to do either.
So I’m reading your shit.
I must be F$%^ing bored.
How’s that for introspection ?

milodonharlani
June 26, 2014 6:52 pm

u.k.(us) says:
June 26, 2014 at 6:48 pm
Careful! By questioning her omniscience, Pamela is liable to accuse you of sexism.

June 26, 2014 7:43 pm

Leif Willis Mosher check P12 at
http://www.leif.org/EOS/Froehlich.pdf
I believe the interpol Br line shows clearly the solar activity rise to a solar max at 1980-90.
This reflects also the increase in GCRs during the 20th century also seen in the Berggren Dye-3 Be10 flux data and also corresponds well with the Hadcrut temperature trends seen in Fig6 at
http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com/2013/10/commonsense-climate-science-and.html

u.k.(us)
June 26, 2014 7:55 pm

milodonharlani says:
June 26, 2014 at 6:52 pm
u.k.(us) says:
June 26, 2014 at 6:48 pm
Careful! By questioning her omniscience, Pamela is liable to accuse you of sexism.
==============
The thought never crossed my mind.
Are you new here ??

milodonharlani
June 26, 2014 8:09 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
June 26, 2014 at 8:05 pm
As even you must know, that is entirely unwarranted. Tony’s reconstructions have nothing at all to do with Mann, et al, but are based upon his own time-tested collation of available data from all sources, same as has been practiced since Lamb’s time, if not before. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Mann, et al’s misuse of tree rings for temperature rather than precipitation.
That distinction also, no surprise, escaped you in responding to the Chilean 11 year signal data.

milodonharlani
June 26, 2014 8:10 pm

u.k.(us) says:
June 26, 2014 at 7:55 pm
What do you mean by new? I’ve been around a few years. Maybe several.

milodonharlani
June 26, 2014 8:14 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
June 26, 2014 at 7:53 pm
I have never posted anything uncited, Willis. You OTOH, refuse to look at the best studies. Even if handed them on a silver platter, you ignore them. Instead, you insist on looking at just one at a time. When your challengers comply, you insist on another one. This is as far from science as is humanly possible.
You are a poseur. Which is not to say that some of your analyses don’t have merit, but the last thing that you can reasonably claim to be is a scientist. To make that claim with justification, you would have to practice the scientific method, which you admit to ignoring, along with every study which shows you to be FOS.

Konrad.
June 26, 2014 8:29 pm

lsvalgaard says:
June 26, 2014 at 6:12 pm
———————————
“so, as I said, as TSI and SSN vary, so does UV.”
The point is that UV variance between solar cycles is far greater than the minuscule 0.1% TSI variance. And because the oceans are a selective surface not a near black body, this matters. TSI alone cannot answer how the oceans accumulate energy.
The solar radiation absorbed at depth is reduced to just blue light and UV. This is provably varying far more between solar cycles than 0.1%. Solar radiation absorption below the diurnal over turning layer can be cumulative. Easily enough to cause the tiny 0.8C in 150 years that has been observed.
And within the over turning layer? Here variance in solar absorption will more closely match the 0.1% TSI variance as a greater range of frequencies are being absorbed and the water is vertically mixed. Diurnal and seasonal cycles would be detectable but not 11 year cycles. This is why the “I can’t find an 11 cycle in SSTs” game is so inane. It’s no better than “I can’t find an 11 year cycle in 17th century wallpaper designs” or “I can’t find an 11 year cycle in Victorian era corset boning keratin levels”.
There is no way out with the “near blackbody” + TSI game. The oceans are a selective surface and spectral variance is critical to how they accumulate and discharge energy.

June 26, 2014 8:35 pm

Dr Norman Page says:
June 26, 2014 at 7:43 pm
I believe the interpol Br line shows clearly the solar activity rise to a solar max at 1980-90.
If you look at the longer record back to 1845, Figure 6 and 7 of
http://www.leif.org/research/Error-Scale-Values-HLS.pdf
you’ll see that th 1980-1990 activty is on par with the activity around 1870.
This reflects also the increase in GCRs during the 20th century also seen in the Berggren Dye-3 Be10 flux data and also corresponds well with the Hadcrut temperature trends seen in Fig6
As we have discussed earlier the Dye-3 data is not reliable and the solar activity in Figures 6 and 7 in the link above is not at all similar to the Hadcrut temperatures in your Figure 6. You capacity for self-delusion is quite formidable.

milodonharlani
June 26, 2014 8:36 pm

Dear Willis,
For the umpteenth time, how about looking at the studies cited by Meehl, whom you dismissed out of hand as a modeler, but which are based upon actual observations, not modeling. Your mendacious claim that I don’t cite studies is purely a fabrication to avoid your having to confront reality. It has become clear that your posts are all about narcissism & have nothing to do with science.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.swpc.noaa.gov%2Fsww%2Fsww11%2FSWW_2011_Presentations%2FFri_1030%2FSolar.April.2011.ppt&ei=qOOsU9-2E8r5oAT464KwAQ&usg=AFQjCNFBWXryVJsHmGqwcZp41Xcb-vq8Jg&sig2=tAGZXU311tqmgxFQTm2QTg&bvm=bv.69837884,d.cGU
The second & third pages mention studies showing the 11 year cycle. If you really want to support your counter-consensus position, you’d have the courage to take on a lot of good evidence instead of asking repeatedly for just one more data set.
I have repeatedly linked this study, but you keep ignoring or pooh-poohing it. Fine as to Meehl’s modeling in search of an explanation for the phenomena he notes, but how about finally, after repeated requests, responding to the empirical studies which compelled him to seek an explanation?
I also repeatedly replied to your requests for yet another “just one” study, in hopes that eventually you would look at all of them, as a real scientist would have done. Now it’s time to put up or shut up.
I can see now why Dr. Spencer was so offended by your claiming to have discovered a commonplace of climatology, ie tropical thunderstorms, because you didn’t. As he showed, the literature, had you bothered to search, is filled abundantly with discussion of this phenomenon, which is far from the be all & end all which you tried to bill it as.
When you have thoroughly analyzed the studies cited in Meehl, then you can start to write a real scientific paper presenting your faith-based belief in no 11 year signals in climatic data. If you want to play a scientist on blogs, then you have to behave like one in the real world.

u.k.(us)
June 26, 2014 8:40 pm

milodonharlani says:
June 26, 2014 at 8:10 pm
u.k.(us) says:
June 26, 2014 at 7:55 pm
What do you mean by new? I’ve been around a few years. Maybe several.
================================
I’ve paid my dues towards this website, not sure the money covered all my stupid comments.
It must be 5-6 years by now ?, there are some characters that …..enliven the joint.
You don’t need to tell me when to be careful.
[Note: Your first post here was @2009/12/05 at 3:59 pm. ~mod.]

June 26, 2014 8:57 pm

milodonharlani says:
June 26, 2014 at 8:36 pm
When you have thoroughly analyzed the studies cited in Meehl, then you can start to write a real scientific paper presenting your faith-based belief in no 11 year signals in climatic data.
Meehl does not do a good job presenting those studies [mostly van Loon’s] or even summarizing them, but actually we would expect a 0.1K solar cycle effect [which is very hard to dig out of the noise]. So when solar activity sinks to solar minimum values, temperatures are expected to drop 0.1K, which would then also represent the drop to be expected if we had a long-duration solar minimum as the Maunder Minimum.

milodonharlani
June 26, 2014 9:03 pm

u.k.(us) says:
June 26, 2014 at 8:40 pm
OK. Careful wasn’t the best way to phrase it.
And you’ve been here longer than I, thanks to a misspent decade at RealClimate & to not misspent but not frequently commenting at ClimateAudit.
[Your 1st post here: 2011/10/02 at 1:17 pm ~mod.]

milodonharlani
June 26, 2014 9:07 pm

lsvalgaard says:
June 26, 2014 at 8:57 pm
I agree. There may well be other papers which aggregate studies finding a solar signal, but for starters, why couldn’t Willis consider those?
IMO it’s not standard scientific practice to assert a position, then expect commenters to find papers in opposition for the proposer to analyze, but only one at a time.
It’s shirking your scientific duty to present an hypothesis, then ask others to try to dig through prior work to falsify it. Real science, IMO, would be to test the hypothesis yourself, either through experiment or at least a thorough literature search.
As your excellent & ever improving own Web site does, aggregating relevant studies whether they support your current view or not.

Watchdog
June 26, 2014 9:22 pm

Off-Topic Question: IF CO2 follows Temperature by many hundreds of years (ref: Vostok) must we pin the cause on the current rise in CO2 to the Medieval Warming Period?

1 31 32 33 34 35 41