Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
In a recent interchange over at Joanne Nova’s always interesting blog, I’d said that the slow changes in the sun have little effect on temperature. Someone asked me, well, what about the cold temperatures during the Maunder and Dalton sunspot minima? And I thought … hey, what about them? I realized that like everyone else, up until now I’ve just accepted the idea of cold temperatures being a result of the solar minima as an article of faith … but I’d never actually looked at the data. And in any case, I thought, what temperature data would we have for the Maunder sunspot minimum, which lasted from 1645 to 1715? So … I went back to the original sources, which as always is a very interesting ride, and I learned a lot.
It turns out that this strong association of sunspot minima and temperature is a fairly recent development. Modern interest in the Maunder sunspot minimum was sparked by John Eddy’s 1976 publication of a paper in Science entitled “The Maunder Minimum”. In that paper, Eddy briefly discusses the question of the relationship between the Maunder sunspot minimum and the global temperature, viz:
The coincidence of Maunder’s “prolonged solar minimum” with the coldest excursion of the “Little Ice Age” has been noted by many who have looked at the possible relations between the sun and terrestrial climate (73). A lasting tree-ring anomaly which spans the same period has been cited as evidence of a concurrent drought in the American Southwest (68, 74). There is also a nearly 1 : 1 agreement in sense and time between major excursions in world temperature (as best they are known) and the earlier excursions of the envelope of solar behavior in the record of 14C, particularly when a 14C lag time is allowed for: the Sporer Minimum of the 16th century is coincident with the other severe temperature dip of the Little Ice Age, and the Grand Maximum coincides with the “medieval Climatic Optimum” of the 11th through 13th centuries (75, 76). These coincidences suggest a possible relationship between the overall envelope of the curve of solar activity and terrestrial climate in which the 11-year solar cycle may be effectively filtered out or simply unrelated to the problem. The mechanism of this solar effect on climate may be the simple one of ponderous long-term changes of small amount in the total radiative output of the sun, or solar constant. These long-term drifts in solar radiation may modulate the envelope of the solar cycle through the solar dynamo to produce the observed long-term trends in solar activity. The continuity, or phase, of the 11-year cycle would be independent of this slow, radiative change, but the amplitude could be controlled by it. According to this interpretation, the cyclic coming and going of sunspots would have little effect on the output of solar radiation, or presumably on weather, but the long-term envelope of sunspot activity carries the indelible signature of slow changes in solar radiation which surely affect our climate (77). [see paper for references]
Now, I have to confess, that all struck me as very weak, with more “suggest” and “maybe” and “could” than I prefer in my science. So I thought I’d look to see where he was getting the temperature data to support his claims. It turns out that he was basing his opinion of the temperature during the Maunder minimum on a climate index from H. H. Lamb, viz:
The Little Ice Age lasted roughly from 1430 to 1850 … if we take H. H. Lamb’s index of Paris London Winter Severity as a global indicator.
After some searching, I found the noted climatologist H. H. Lamb’s England winter severity index in his 1965 paper The Early Medieval Warm Epoch And Its Sequel. He doesn’t give the values for his index, but I digitized his graph. Here are Lamb’s results, showing the winter severity in England. Lower values mean more severe winters.
So let me pose you a small puzzle. Knowing that Eddy is basing his claims about a cold Maunder minimum on Lamb’s winter severity index … where in Lamb’s winter severity index would you say that we would find the Maunder and Dalton minima? …
Figure 1. H.H. Lamb’s index of winter severity in England.
As you can see, there is a reasonable variety in the severity of the winters in England. However, it is not immediately apparent just where in there we might find the Maunder and Dalton minima, although there are several clear possibilities. So to move the discussion along, let me reveal where they are:
Figure 2. As in Figure 1, but with the dates of the Maunder and Dalton minima added.
As we might expect, the Maunder minimum is the coldest part of the record. The Dalton minimum is also cold, but not as cold as the Maunder minimum, again as we’d expect. Both of them have warmer periods both before and after the minima, illustrating the effect of the sun on the … on the … hang on … hmmm, that doesn’t look right … let me check my figures …
…
…
…
… uh-oh
…
…
Well, imagine that. I forgot to divide by the square root of minus one, so I got the dates kinda mixed up, and I put both the Maunder and the Dalton 220 years early … here are the actual dates of the solar minima shown in Lamb’s winter severity index.
Figure 3. H.H. Lamb’s England winter severity index, 1100-1950, overlaid with the actual dates of the four solar minima ascribed to that period. Values are decadal averages 1100-1110,1110-1120, etc., and are centered on the decade.
As you can see …
• The cooling during the Wolf minimum is indistinguishable from the two immediately previous episodes of cooling, none of which get much below the overall average.
• The temperature during the Sporer minimum is warmer than the temperature before and after the minimum.
• The coldest and second coldest decades in the record were not associated with solar minima.
• The fastest cooling in the record, from the 1425 decade to the 1435 decade, also was not associated with a solar minimum.
• Contrary to what we’d expect, the Maunder minimum warmed from start to finish.
• The Dalton minimum is unremarkable in any manner other than being warmer than the decade before the start and the decade after the end of the minimum. Oh, and like the Maunder, it also warmed steadily over the period of the minimum.
Urk … that’s what Eddy based his claims on. Not impressed.
Let me digress with a bit of history. I began this solar expedition over a decade ago thinking, along with many others, that as they say, “It’s the sun, stupid!”. I, and many other people, took it as an unquestioned and unexamined “fact” that the small variations of the sun, both the 11-year cycles and the solar minima, had a discernible effect on the temperature. As a result, I spent endless hours investigating things like the barycentric movement of the sun. I went so far as to write a spreadsheet to calculate the barycentric movement for any period of history, and compared those results to the temperatures.
But the more I looked, the less I found. So I started looking at the various papers claiming that the 11-year cycle was visible in various climate datasets … still nothing. To date, I’ve written up and posted the results of my search for the 11-year cycle in global sea levels, the Central England Temperature record, sea surface temperatures, tropospheric temperatures, global surface temperatures, rainfall amounts, the Armagh Observatory temperatures, the Armagh Observatory daily temperature ranges, river flows, individual tidal stations, solar wind, the 10Beryllium ice core data, and some others I’ve forgotten … nothing.
Not one of them shows any significant 11-year cycle.
And now, for the first time I’m looking at temperature effects of the solar minima … and I’m in the same boat. The more I look, the less I find.
However, we do have some actual observational evidence for the time period of the most recent of the minima, the Dalton minimum, because the Berkeley Earth temperature record goes back to 1750. And while the record is fragmentary and based on a small number of stations, it’s the best we have, and it is likely quite good for comparison of nearby decades. In any case, here are those results:
Figure 4. The Berkeley Earth land temperature anomaly data, along with the Dalton minimum.
Once again, the data absolutely doesn’t support the idea of the sun ruling the temperature. IF the sun indeed caused the variations during the Dalton minimum, it first made the temperature rise, then fall, then rise again to where it started … sorry, but that doesn’t look anything like what we’d expect. For example, if the low spot around 1815 is caused by low solar input, then why does the temperature start rising then, and rise steadily until the end of the Dalton minimum, while the solar input is not rising at all?
So once again, I can’t find evidence to support the theory. As a result, I will throw the question open to the adherents of the theory … what, in your estimation, is the one best piece of temperature evidence that shows that the solar minima cause cold spells?
Now, a few caveats. First, I want to enlist your knowledge and wisdom in the search, so please just give me your one best shot. I’m not interested in someone dumping the results of a google search for “Maunder” on my desk. I want to know what YOU think is the very best evidence that solar minima cause global cooling.
Next, don’t bother saying “the Little Ice Age is the best evidence”. Yes, the Maunder occurred during the Little Ice Age (LIA). But the Lamb index says that the temperature warmed from the start of the Maunder until the end. Neither the Maunder’s location, which was quite late in the LIA, nor the warming Lamb shows from the start to the end of the Maunder, support the idea that the sun caused the LIA cooling.
Next, please don’t fall into the trap of considering climate model results as data. The problem, as I have shown in a number of posts, is that the global temperature outputs of the modern crop of climate models are nothing but linear transforms of their inputs. And since the models include solar variations among their inputs, those solar variations will indeed appear in the model outputs. If you think that is evidence for solar forcing of temperature … well, this is not the thread for you. So no climate model results, please.
So … what do you think is the one very best piece of evidence that the solar minima actually do affect the temperature, the evidence that you’d stand behind and defend?
My regards to you all,
w.
[UPDATE] In the comments, someone said that the Central England Temperature record shows the cooling effects of the solar minima … I’m not finding it:


As you can see, there is very little support for the “solar minima cause cool temperatures” hypothesis in the CET. Just as in the Lamb winter severity data and the Berkeley Earth data, during both the Dalton and Maunder minima we see the temperature WARMING for the last part of the solar minimum. IF the cause is in fact a solar slump … then why would the earth warm up while the sun is still slumping? And in particular, in the CET the Dalton minimum ends up quite a bit warmer than it started … how on earth does this support the “solar slump” claim, that at the end of the Dalton minimum it’s warmer than at the start?
The Usual Request: I know this almost never happens, but if you disagree with something that I or someone else has said, please have the common courtesy to QUOTE THEIR EXACT WORDS that you disagree with. This prevents much confusion and misunderstanding.
Data: Eddy’s paper, The Maunder Minimum
Lamb’s paper, The Early Medieval Warm Epoch And Its Sequel
Berkeley Earth, land temperature anomalies
milodonharlani says:
July 2, 2014 at 7:10 pm
milodon, to date I have analyzed the following datasets looking for the purported effect of the 11-year sunspot cycle. In many cases I have been doing exactly what you said, pointing out the problems in the studies I’ve found in my review of the literature, studies involving the following datasets:
In none of them is there any sign of a significant 11-year cycle. Not one.
If you can find a researcher who has looked for the sunspot signal in more places than that, please point me to his/her research, I’d love to see it. And at that point you can tell me how I have the second best record for scientific diligence in this field of anyone you know of.
If you can’t, then I’ve done more research on this question than anyone you can point to … so I’ll thank you to stop babbling about how I haven’t done the research, or more laughably, your ludicrous claim that you’ve done my research for me. You haven’t analyzed one paper that I know of, your research count at present is zero.
Somewhere along the line, I realized that if I were to live for a hundred more years, I still couldn’t dig through all the junk studies that have been done on the subject. So I thought, let me offer the opportunity to the supporters of the theory to identify the very best examples that they know of. That way, I won’t have to spend 30 years “reviewing the literature” and rooting through hundreds of garbage studies.
And while some people have taken the opportunity to put up their best studies, like someone suggesting the Nir Shaviv study, on the other hand you’ve given me four pieces of the junkiest science I can imagine, including the laughable “One Chilean Tree” study. And meanwhile, despite the fact that you haven’t done one single analysis, and obviously can’t tell a good study from a piece of garbage, you keep whining about how I should waste the rest of my life slogging through the hip-deep muck that passes for solar studies. Sorry, milodon, not gonna happen.
I already looked at your Brazilian rainfall data above, it was just as bad as the rest of the junk in the field. So to date, if the “solar cycle is well supported in precipitation data”, you have failed to link to such records.
Now, I see that you’re off now on another tangent, some claim about monsoon data. Of course, you haven’t bothered to identify or link to the study. When you do, I’ll look at it … although I’m unsure why I should pay the slightest attention to anything you suggest, given the rubbish you’ve tried to pawn off as science, including referring me to studies of climate models despite the fact that they can be expected to show solar outputs that are simple linear transforms of their solar inputs.
Anyhow, give us a link to your monsoon data. Please check to make sure that it is NOT a study of reanalysis “data”, which isn’t data at all, you’ve tried twice to slip one of them past me. And don’t bother me with anything paywalled. I’m not paying $35 to read another one of your junk studies.
Best regards,
w.
milodonharlani says:
July 2, 2014 at 7:19 pm
I’ve told you exactly why upstream, not once but twice. It’s clear that you are unable to remember it, but if you’re too dumb to find it, do a search on “reanalysis” … and you accuse me of not doing my research?
w.
If you can tell whether the AMO will stay in its warm phase, or transition to its cold phase, that should tell you if the AMO will continue out of phase with the solar cycles, or revert to being in phase with the solar cycles:
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/esrl-amo/every:13/plot/sidc-ssn/from:1855/normalise
Ulric, you are describing a set of school bus window wipers (which back in the old days had their own little wired-to-the-car-battery engines, one for each wiper). I used to watch them cycle into and out of phase. It was readily predictable thus could be calculated via variable formula http://rgraphgallery.blogspot.com/2013/04/rg21-plotting-curves-any-formula-normal.html.
The fact that I can calculate a function between two things does not mean the windshield wipers have a cause-effect relationship between them and that results in their in and out of phase cycles.
It reminds me of the old women libber contention in the 60’s and early 70’s that our cycles were in and out of phase with the moon and therefore were connected to the moon. Utter and complete nonsense.
It is nothing like your analogy whatsoever Pamela. The phase relationship stays locked in while the AMO remains in the same mode. What is required is an explanation for the observed phase shift phenomena.
Ulric Lyons says:
July 3, 2014 at 9:17 am
Thanks, Ulric. Of all the arguments that I’ve heard for evidence for causation, the idea that two things are related to each other because they go into and out of phase with each other is far and away the weakest.
milodon tried that one on upstream, with the three Brazilian rainfall datasets. One started in phase with sunspots and then went out of phase; one started out of phase with sunspots and then (at a different time from the first one) went into phase. The third one did nothing at all.
Anyone who sees that as evidence of a relationship doesn’t understand how science works. As you point out, absent any explanation of the reason for and the mechanism of such a phase shift, it is meaningless. You can pick just about any two variable phenomena, say the dow jones index and women’s hemline heights, and very possibly you’ll find that they go into and out of phase with each other at various times in the record …
So what?
w.
PS—Your graph doesn’t show the AMO staying “locked in” as you describe. Run a correlation window that is say three decades wide across your two datasets and you’ll see what I mean. If it were “locked in” as you describe, the correlation would stay high while it is “in phase”, and switch to highly negative while “out of phase”.
Trusting your eyeballs in this matter is madness. You can’t just squint at a graph and draw conclusions, the human brain is stupendous at and famous for seeing patterns where none exist. That’s one reason we invented statistics, to save us from ourselves …
Willis says:
?w=840
“If it were “locked in” as you describe, the correlation would stay high while it is “in phase”, and switch to highly negative while “out of phase”.”
It appears to take around one solar cycle for the AMO to change mode. How do you know what it should do?
“Trusting your eyeballs in this matter is madness. You can’t just squint at a graph and draw conclusions, the human brain is stupendous at and famous for seeing patterns where none exist. That’s one reason we invented statistics, to save us from ourselves …”
But you see none where they do exist, i.e. “As you can see, there is very little support for the “solar minima cause cool temperatures” hypothesis in the CET.”
I definitely do not trust your eyeballs, the coldest periods in CET are all during solar minima.
Glad you brought this problem up again.
I was watching a TV program about typhoon Hyuain (sp.), and the commentator made several references to the warm Pacific Ocean water, and the amount of energy transferred from the water to the storm.
I recalled your first post on the relation between sunspots and climate variations, and thought to myself “If the storm is getting energy from the water, then the water mus be cooling” and it occurred to me that this mechanism MIGHT be PART of the answer to your question as to the cause of the climatic minima.
I don’t have any data on similar occurrences preceding the mimima noted, but is it possible that similar ocean cooling occurred prior to the climatic minima.
I know that Anthony told one poster that plate tectonics was not involves in this situation, but New Madrid in MO experience 8.0 quakes in 1811 and 1812.
Possibly a combination of factors?
Willis Eschenbach – I have 2 questions for you.
1. Willis,you said you searched for any temperature record of any sort that displayed the ~11 year solar cycle. Does this satisfy your quest?:
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2010/15jul_thermosphere/
The 2 blue graphs display thermosphere density variation over the last 4 solar cycles. The density variation is purported to be the result of temperature variation of the thermosphere caused by the solar EUV flux variation during each solar cycle. Since thermosphere density varies in time with the solar cycle, so must its temperature.
2. Does the annual variation of the Earth-Sun distance show up in any temperature record, or any record linked to temperature?
SR
Steve Reddish says:
“The density variation is purported to be the result of temperature variation of the thermosphere caused by the solar EUV flux variation during each solar cycle.”
The dominant temperature spikes in the thermosphere follow the geomagnetic index particularly well.
http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2012/03/22/both_spikes.jpg
http://snag.gy/jOpqq.jpg
Steve Reddish says:
July 5, 2014 at 3:46 pm (Edit)
Thanks for that, Steve. The highest reaches of the atmosphere such as the thermosphere are clearly responsive to the sun, as are things like the Van Allen belts. And solar storms blast the heck out of satellites. I’ve never denied that.
The curiosity is that none of that makes it down through the tropopause to where the weather happens. That’s why I’ve been looking for what I called “climate datasets”. The thermosphere is interesting, but I don’t think I’d call it a climate dataset. I’m looking for stuff happening where the weather is going on, which is basically from the tropopause on down to the surface layers of the ocean.
Regards,
w.
Willis says:
“The curiosity is that none of that makes it down through the tropopause to where the weather happens.”
Did you check the literature? there seems to be quite a lot on thermosphere – stratosphere coupling in the polar regions:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/JC087iC09p07206/abstract;jsessionid=E742AEC956CC8CBF77C32B238C1389F0.f02t04?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2004GL022003/full
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2010GL043619/full
http://www.athena-spu.gr/~upperatmosphere/index.php?title=Nitric_Oxides_in_the_Mesosphere