From The Australian, 12 May 2014
Graham Lloyd
Antarctic sea ice has expanded to record levels for April, increasing by more than 110,000sq km a day last month to nine million square kilometres.
The National Snow and Ice Data Centre said the rapid expansion had continued into May and the seasonal cover was now bigger than the record “by a significant margin’’.
“This exceeds the past record for the satellite era by about 320,000sq km, which was set in April 2008,’’ the centre said.
Increased ice cover in Antarctic continues to be at odds with falling Arctic ice levels, where the summer melt has again pushed levels well below the average extent for 1981-2010. The centre said while the rate of Arctic-wide retreat was rapid through the first half of April, it had slowed.
The April Arctic minimum was 270,000sq km higher than the record April low, which occurred in 2007. The Antarctic sea ice extent anomalies were greatest in the eastern Weddell and along a long stretch of coastline south of Australia and the southeastern Indian Ocean. The centre said the increased ice extent in the Weddell Sea region appeared to be associated with a broad area of persistent easterly winds in March and April, and lower-than-average temperatures.
Full story at the Australian, here. h/t to The GWPF
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Here are some current plots of Antarctic Sea Ice from the WUWT Sea Ice Page
Antarctic Sea Ice Extent – 15% or Greater
National Snow & Ice Data Center (NSIDC) – Click the pic to view at source
Southern Hemisphere Sea Ice Extent With Anomaly
National Snow & Ice Data Center (NSIDC) – Click the pic to view at source
Southern Hemisphere Sea Ice Area Anomaly
Cryosphere Today – Arctic Climate Research at the University of Illinois – Click the pic to view at source
RACookPE1978 says: How can the 300 foot thick WAIS melt out if the 2 meter thick Antarctic sea ice continues to gain area AROUND the WAIS every year the past 4 years?
davefreer says: What effect does logic then suggest increasing sea-ice will have on the supposed mechanism for melting the ice sheet?
Ice loss has been observed in the WAIS in these areas over 4 decades through flow speed, surface elevation, and ice thickness to bedrock. This has happened at the same time as the recent positive trend in Antarctic sea ice. What effect do those observations have on the logic of assuming a simple direct relationship between sea ice trends and ice sheet trends?
The ocean isn’t a uniform pool with constant conditions from the surface to the bottom. The characteristics of ice sheets are variable too. Other areas are relatively stable. It is a complex system.
The point is that the Antarctic sea ice extent can’t be trotted out as a response to everything.
Nice try. pretty picture. Doesn’t work.
Now, through the entire last winter in the antarctic, we had about 1.3 Mkm^2 of “excess” antarctic sea ice. EXCESS antarctic sea ice. The ENTIRE period from mid-2011 through 2014 we have been AVERAGING a little over 1 million EXCESS square kilometers of antarctic sea ice. Your “theory” has to work for every day of the past three years!
How many cubic kilometers of antarctic continental ice had to “melt” and run off into the antarctic ocean to create that mythical “cold water” insulation-blanket of low convection cycles you claim in your image? Give me the calculations.
How much antarctic continental ice melted, where did it melt from to go out evenly and smoothly underneath 19 million square kilometers of the ocean waters surrounding Antarctica to INCREASE the freezing of 1 million EXTRA square kilometers of sea water?
How much did that ocean water have to get colder to freeze DUE TO FRESH WATER DILUTION? (Antarctic air temperatures didn’t change.)
Actually figuring out how much ice will form in a water tower is not a trival task.
We discussed it at length one day at the engineering firm I worked for in Denver.
Not only does ice form on top, but it forms on all sides and only a portion in the middle does not freeze. So two thingies are happening the ice insulates the water and m dot brings enough warm water in the system to help prevent ice accumulation..
Kinda of like the arctic ocean.
But hey the cold water in Feb makes for great beer when you use a wort chiller…
Well as much as I know is that in Antarctica there are lots of volcanic thermals under the ice, and of course terrestrial volcanoes. If fresh water freezes quicker than sea water, and all glaciers and ice bergs are made from fresh water, where is that all coming from. Is it converted, my son says yes that salt water does freeze.but more slowly. Great but they will see that the natural break up of seasonal sea ice is just another reason to say global warming is the cause. And they get paid for giving this misinformation publically. Wait for the Australian budget tonight, the climate change commission and renewal energy are going to be hit, and so is Antarctica.
RACookPE1978 said:
“The amount of solar energy reflected by sea ice or by open water at sea level is independent of ice volume. ”
What, because reflected solar energy is the only reason we measure sea ice, and the answer gives us no other information?
Your question, not mine: Name any other reasons arctic and antarctic sea ice matter towards the world’s heat balance.
I am NOT the one worried about “arctic” sea ice loss the past few years.
I am NOT the hundreds of publicists and propagandists in the CAGW religion who are obsessing about arctic sea ice loss, while ignoring antarctic sea ice gains.
I AM however laughing at the hypocrisy of those in the CAGW religion who (deliberately) inflate the problems of losing arctic sea ice (which cools the planet if sea ice minimums continue to shrink!) while ignoring antarctic sea ice gain (which cools the planet if antarctic sea ice levels continue to increase steadily!
By the way, in how many years will Cape Horn be closed to sea traffic due to excess antarctic sea ice extents in September and October?
RACookPE1978 said:
“Name any other reasons arctic and antarctic sea ice matter towards the world’s heat balance.”
Do you really think that heat balance is the only reason we look at ice volume and area?
Or, to put it another way, ice volume is not irrelevant to climate science, just because it doesn’t effect one specific part that you care about.
Oh you are back Phillip, putting in your claim to fame, by posing silly objections. The point was that AGW’s are or have been claiming sea ice and glaciers were retreating proving global warming.
They are not retreating. In fact they are growing. Do you understand? And as it is so cold down under in Antarctica, it is partly caused that any sunlight is reflected back, as it always does,
And that Antarctica does not have the benefit of full sunlight part of the year. The same as the Arctic and some countries in the Northern Arctic circle. Antarctica is the coldest place on earth, no polar bears, just penguins, the dear little and big ones. And it is land based, not like the North Pole that has no land under the sea ice.
Antarctica and the Southern Ocean currents, does have a lot to do with climate science, and that’s been known since Shackelton went there it does dictate climate cycles. Sorry to burst your bubble of reasoning and knowledge.
“The point was that AGW’s are or have been claiming sea ice and glaciers were retreating proving global warming.”
Who are you to say that that is the only point that matters? That doesn’t make ice volume irrelevant to our understanding of the climate.
“Oh you are back Phillip, putting in your claim to fame, by posing silly objections.”
“Sorry to burst your bubble of reasoning and knowledge.”
Seriously, get over yourself.
Ok, volume is important also. Does that make you feel better? By the way the ice concentration anomalies are well to the plus side, so what is your point about the increase in ice volume in Antarctica?
My point was that it was silly to dismiss someones question about ice volume as irrelevant, and doing so by saying “well, it’s not relevant to the point I think is important”.
But the volume of sea ice and whether the Antarctica has relevance to climate science is that it does. Can’t you understand that.
The southern ocean and Antarctica do influence weather and climate.
‘Get over yourself’ Oh me thinks you don’t like being shown up by a woman.
“But the volume of sea ice and whether the Antarctica has relevance to climate science is that it does. Can’t you understand that.”
No. You almost made a sentence, but not quite. Are you completely oblivious to how hard it can be to figure out exactly what you are talking about? I’m not just being a troublemaker when I ask “what the hell are you on about.” A lot of the time you type stuff that just doesn’t make sense.
Read your sentence again.
I can’t be bothered Phillip you belong on a different planet to me, and my English is only geared for those who can understand.
That is completely hilarious coming from someone who thinks that this sentence makes sense:
“But the volume of sea ice and whether the Antarctica has relevance to climate science is that it does.”
Do I really have to explain the problems with that sentence? I’ll give one free cookie to anyone who can explain exactly what that sentence is suppose to mean.
OK, rephrase, the volume of sea ice or glaciers in Antarctica does have influence and relevance to weather patterns; that is an important factor to be included in any climate scientific research.
Now if the ice is not reducing in volume Phillip, and is increasing, the people who are telling us it is shrinking because of global warming are wrong and corrupting the data to prove their hypothesis. They are lying in other words. I’m sorry Anthony I can’t be bothered with this guy. I am not sitting an English essay.
The AVERAGE altitude, of the entire Antarctic continent exceeds 10,000 feet (read that somewhere).
Hence atmospheric CO2 over the Antarctic continent, is substantially lower than over the Arctic ocean, which is at sea level, give or take a couple of meters. In fact it is only about 2/3 of the Arctic CO2. So that means Antarctic CO2 today is actually less than Mauna Loa CO2 was in the IGY of 1957/58, when recording of CO2 started.
Currently ice growth slowed. The reason is the blockade polar vortex, which is formed in regions of strong ionization by cosmic rays.
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/intraseasonal/temp10anim.shtml
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/blocking/real_time_sh/500gz_anomalies_sh.gif
http://www.bartol.udel.edu/~pyle/thespnplot.gif
Yes there is a big mountain (old volcano) that a plane crashed into some years ago. I’d love to go there and meet the tame penguins and seals. But – after that last venture getting bogged in ice packs, might prefer to visit somewhere less cold. Maybe the Red centre or New Zealand.
“Are you trying to claim that longwave radiation is the only heat loss from Arctic waters?”
Nope. You’re the one who said that not me. I specifically said heat transfer by conduction and convection depend on air and water temperatures. But assuming they are equal, the ice water is warming, not cooling, when exposed to sunlight.
“Now, where did you get your 500 watts/m^2 at what latitude at what day of year?”
See and learn.http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/images/insolation_latitude.gif
September 22 is autumn equinox. June 21 is summer solstice. Are you confusing autumn for summer?
“So, open water radiates (278^4)/(258^4) MORE energy than does ice-covered water, right?”
Of course. But that’s not what you said previously. You said water emits more longwave than absorbs solar radiation. Wrong. Not on summer. Do the math and you will see I am right.
bushbunny said:
“OK, rephrase,”
Rephrase? Why would you do that? You just had a go at me twice when I pointed out that your sentence made no sense, and now with no apology or acknowledgement of the issue, you suddenly change your tune. Well, I guess that beating me is the important thing after all, so who cares about any of that.
“the volume of sea ice or glaciers in Antarctica does have influence and relevance to weather patterns; that is an important factor to be included in any climate scientific research.”
Yep, and the weather patterns have influence on and relevance to sea ice and glaciers.
“Now if the ice is not reducing in volume Phillip, and is increasing, the people who are telling us it is shrinking because of global warming are wrong and corrupting the data to prove their hypothesis. They are lying in other words. I’m sorry Anthony I can’t be bothered with this guy. I am not sitting an English essay.”
I never said anything about that. All I did was point out that it was silly to dismiss sea ice volume as irrelevant to this discussion.
And, sitting an English essay? Sorry if making sense is too much work for you.
ren: it is coming into their winter Or nearly is. From what I know, ice growth or increases come and go depending on the season and daylight hours.