By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
Professor Shaun Lovejoy, as he continues the active marketing of his latest paper purporting to prove that “the world desperately needs to drop the skepticism and change course – humanity’s future depends on it”, writes in a hilarious op-ed at livescience.com:
“The majordomo of this deniers’ hub [Watts Up With That] is the notorious Viscount Christopher Monckton of Brenchley, who – within hours [fast on his feet, that Viscount is: strong in him the Force must be] – had declared to the faithful that the paper was no less than a ‘mephitically ectoplasmic emanation from the Forces of Darkness’ and that ‘it is time to be angry at the gruesome failure of peer review’.”
The Professor describes this as “venom”. No, sir, it is eloquence in the service of truth. Perhaps he would prefer a scatological rather than an eschatological metaphor. Happy to oblige. The scientific merit of his paper is aptly described by the third, eighteenth, first, and sixteenth letters of the alphabet, taken sequentially. Or, if he prefers it up him palindromically, the sixteenth, fifteenth, fifteenth, and sixteenth.
Let me put on my major-domo’s tails, white starched wing-collar, maniple, and white gloves, polish up the nearest silver salver, and, Jeeves-like, shimmer in to address some the fashionable pseudo-physics in Professor Lovejoy’s latest Technicolor yawn.
After deploying the hate-screech word “deniers”, he wheels out Svante Arrhenius, who, “toiling for a year, predicted that doubling CO2 levels would increase global temperatures by 5-6 Cº, which turns out to be close to modern estimates”.
The Professor is perhaps unaware (for he does not seem to be aware of all that much in the realm of physics) that Arrhenius is known to have made errors in his line-by-line calculation of the warming effect of CO2 (actually performed at intervals over the long Arctic winter, not over a whole year). He had, for instance, relied on defective lunar spectral data.
Furthermore, Arrhenius – a chemist and not a physicist – had not at that time come across the fundamental equation of radiative transfer, which would greatly have simplified his calculations and made them more accurate.
However, in 1906, in Vol. 1, No. 2 of the Journal of the Royal Nobel Institute, he recanted and divided his earlier climate-sensitivity estimate by three:
“Likewise, I calculate that a halving or doubling of the CO2 concentration would be equivalent to changes of temperature of –1.5 Cº or +1.6 Cº respectively.”
So few of the F. of D. are aware of Arrhenius’ recantation that I am happy to provide a facsimile (Fig. 1) of the quotation from his 1906 paper, published in German (which perhaps explains why the largely English-speaking F. of D. are unaware of it).
Figure 1. Detail in facsimile from Arrhenius, S., 1906, Die vermutliche Ursache der Klimaschwankungen (“The possible cause for climate variability”). Meddelanden från K. Vetenskapsakademiens Nobelinstitut 1: 2, 1ff.
It is also important to note that Arrhenius confined his analysis to radiative transports only. He did not take account of all the numerous non-radiative transports – afternoon convection in the tropics, baroclinic eddies in the extratropics, evaporation everywhere, etc. – that militate homeostatically against any sufficiently small perturbation of the natural climate (such as doubling the tiny concentration of CO2 in the air).
Nor did Arrhenius take account of the biggest unknown in the climate – the behavior of clouds. All other things being equal, returning plant food to the atmosphere from which it came will cause some warming. But we do not know that all other things are equal.
Professor Lovejoy is also incorrect to say that Arrhenius’ original estimate of climate sensitivity was “close to modern estimates”. IPeCaC clings to a sensitivity interval of 1.5-4.5 Cº, entirely below Arrhenius’ original estimate and almost entirely above his revised estimate.
Many “modern estimates” point to a climate sensitivity well below IPeCaC’s interval. We may even see less than 1 Cº of global warming per CO2 doubling (Monckton of Brenchley, 2008, 2010; Douglass & Christy, 2009; Paltridge, 2009; Lindzen and Choi, 2009, 2011; Spencer and Braswell, 2010, 2011; Loehle & Scafetta, 2011, etc.).
Next, the Professor says that in the scientific method “no theory ever can be proven beyond ‘reasonable doubt’”. It would be more correct to say that some hypotheses (though few in physics and very few in climate physics) can be demonstrated definitively.
For instance, it is possible to demonstrate the Theorem of Pythagoras. My own simple proof by inclusion is at Fig. 2.
Figure 2. Demonstration of Pythagoras’ Theorem by inclusion. The boundary contains either the square on the hypotenuse (red) and two congruent right triangles or the squares on the other two sides (blue, green) and two more congruent right triangles. Subtract on each view the two right triangles. Then the square on the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the squares on the other two sides. Q.E.D.
Professor Lovejoy sets out his stall thus:
“Climate skeptics have ruthlessly exploited this alleged weakness, stating that the models are wrong, and that the warming is natural. Fortunately, scientists have a fundamental methodological asymmetry to use against these skeptics: a single decisive experiment effectively can disprove a scientific hypothesis. That’s what I claim to have done. Examining the theory that global warming is only natural, I showed — without any use of GCMs — that the probability that warming is simply a giant natural fluctuation is so small as to be negligible. He compounds this point later by saying “skeptics dismiss the models”.
Well, are the models right? A single experiment demonstrates that, on the central question how much global warming should have occurred since 1990, the modelers’ hypothesis that the trend in global temperature would fall on their predicted interval (the orange region in Fig. 3) has been demonstrated to be false. Skeptics doubt the models not least because the modelers’ confidently-made predictions have been demonstrated, time and again, to be wild exaggerations.
Figure 3. Near-term projections of global warming (IPCC, 1990: orange region), compared with observed outturn taken as the mean of the RSS and UAH monthly global mean surface temperature anomalies, 1990-2014.
Professor Lovejoy says that his “CO2 proxy … predicts with 95 percent certainty that a doubling of CO2 levels in the atmosphere will lead to a warming of 1.9 to 4.2 Cº”. He prays in aid Fig. 4.
Figure 4. “This figure visually shows the strong linear relation between the radiative forcing and the global temperature response since 1880 … showing the 5-year running average of global temperature (red) as a function of the CO2 forcing surrogate from 1880 to 2004. The linearity is impressive; the deviations from linearity are due to natural variability. The slope of the regression line is 2.33±0.22 degrees Celsius per CO2 doubling (it is for the unlagged forcing/response relation).”
I do not pretend to understand this graph. For a start, it seems to show (albeit in exasperatingly non-standard units) that just about half the CO2 forcing since 1750 occurred before 1960, when CO2 concentration last stood at 316 ppmv. However, the official story-line (in standard units) is that the CO2 forcing from 1750 to 1958 was 0.7 W m–2, whereas that from 1958 to 2014 was greater by four-fifths, at 1.2 W m–2. Makes a bit of a mess of the claimed “linearity”, that.
Secondly, the linear trend on the global temperature anomalies since 1880 is 0.87 Cº, (Fig. 5), in response to 1.9 W m–2 of CO2 forcing. A doubling of CO2 concentration would give 3.7 W m–2 of CO2 forcing, according to the current official method.
Therefore, if there were a linear relation between CO2 forcing and temperature change (which there is not), and if all of the warming since 1750 were anthropogenic (which it was not), and if there were no major natural influences on temperature over the period (which there were) the warming in response to a CO2 doubling would be just 1.7 Cº, not the 2.33 Cº suggested in Professor Lovejoy’s caption.
Figure 5. The least-squares linear-regression trend on the mean of the HadCRUT4, GISS, and NCDC monthly mean global surface temperature anomalies from 1880-2014 is 0.87 Cº. The linearity is not particularly remarkable: the correlation coefficient is only 0.69. The oscillations of global temperature following the 60-year period of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation can be clearly seen.
There is demonstrably no linear relationship between the CO2 forcing, which increases monotonically, and global temperature change, which is stochastic. Global temperature change is more closely related to changes in the great ocean oscillations in the short term (Fig. 6), in total sunlight hours at the surface in the medium term (Fig. 7), and in total solar irradiance in the long term (Fig. 8).
Figure 6. The remarkable non-linearity of global temperature change since 1890, showing the two periods of global warming that coincided remarkably with the two positive phases of the naturally-occurring Pacific Decadal Oscillation over the period.
Figure 7. The remarkable non-linearity of global temperature change in the South China Sea, 1880 to 2008, tracking a remarkable non-linearity in the number of sunshine hours in Japan. Not all pyrometer records show this correspondence: but the Japanese record is the longest we have, and one of the most meticulously kept.
Figure 8. The remarkable non-linearity of the sunspot record, 1600-2003, from Hathaway et al., (2004). Inset: The remarkable non-linearity of global temperature trend, 1659-2010. The first and most rapid of the three periods (red) of global warming since 1659 (1694-1733) occurred as solar activity began to recover at the end of the Maunder Minimum (1645-1715). The other two periods (1925-1946 and 1977-2000) occurred at the solar Grand Maximum (1925-1995).
Next, Professor Lovejoy makes the startling assertion that the probability that what he calls “rare, extreme fluctuations” in global temperature such as those of the 20th century were natural is 1:1000 to 1:10,ooo.
This is where his omission of any reference to the Central England Temperature Record, or to the Utrecht or Prague temperature records, or to the historical circumstances (the freezing of the Thames, of the Dutch canals, of the Hudson in New York), is so reprehensible.
The rapid warming at the transition from the Maunder Minimum to a more normal climate occurred well before the industrial revolution began. It was not our fault.
Or Professor Lovejoy could have gone back to 1421, at the time when global temperature began to tip downward into the Little Ice Age. An interesting letter in the Vatican archive from the Papal Legate in Greenland to the Secretariat of State reported that the Legate regretted that he could not take up his appointment because “the ice is come in from the north”. Suddenly, ships could not reach Greenland.
By now, anyone who has studied the climate ought to have realized that what Professor Lovejoy calls “rare, extreme fluctuations” are neither rare nor extreme. They are the norm, not the exception.
Moreover, the entire interval of global temperature change since 1750, from the depth of the Maunder minimum to the acme during the Great El Niño of 1988 represents a movement of just 0.9% in absolute mean global surface temperature. By contrast, the change between midday and midnight at one location can be as much as 20% of absolute mean temperature. And the interval between the hottest and coldest places on Earth represents close to half of absolute mean temperature.
Next, the Professor says: “But what about Medieval warming with vineyards in Britain, or the so-called Little Ice Age with skating on the Thames? In the historical past, the temperature has changed considerably. Surely, the industrial-epoch warming is just another large-amplitude natural event?”
He answers his question in the negative, saying large-scale changes can only occur over periods much longer than a century. He would have gotten a nasty surprise if he had been around at the end of the Younger Dryas cooling event 11,400 years ago. At that time, according to the ice cores, the temperature in Antarctica rose by 5 Cº in just three years. As Professor Ian Plimer puts it, “Now, that’s climate change!”
Next, Professor Lovejoy writes: “My result focuses on the probability of centennial-scale temperature changes. It does not exclude large changes, if they occur slowly enough. So if you must, let the peons roast and the Thames freeze solid, the result stands.” No, it doesn’t. Just look at the warming of 1694-1733: 1.7 Cº in just 40 years, a rate equivalent to 4.33 Cº/century.
The Q&A that Professor Lovejoy has issued to prop up his paper says that he regards any change of more than 0.25 Cº over 125 years as exceptional, and likely to occur only 10% of the time. No, it isn’t. As I pointed out in a previous posting, more than a third of all 125-year periods predating the onset of anthropogenic influence on climate in 1950 show warming or cooling of more than 0.25 Cº.
Figure 9. Left: The misleading propaganda claim made by “Skeptical” “Science” that 97% of scientists agree we are the cause of global warming. Right: The true position exposed by Legates et al. (2013): 99.5% of 11,944 climate-science papers did not say we are the cause. They did not even say we are the primary cause.
Next, Professor Lovejoy says IPeCaC has “strengthened its earlier 2007 qualification of ‘likely’ to ‘extremely likely’ that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century.” Yes, it has, but it has done so not only on no evidence but in the teeth of the evidence.
As Legates et al. (2013) demonstrated, 99.5% of 11,944 scientific papers on climate published between 1991 and 2011 did not say that most of the global warming since 1950 was caused by us (Figure 9).
Besides, since Professor Lovejoy’s paper plays with statistics a great deal, he should know that no recognizable statistical process performed on any actual dataset (unless science now recognizes a show of hands among scientifically-illiterate, rent-seeking representatives of governments) generated IPeCaC’s “95-99% confidence” value.
Next, the Professor asserts that “skeptics … insist that warming results from natural variability”. No, we don’t. We assert that in the present state of knowledge it is impossible adequately to distinguish between natural variability and anthropogenic influence.
The Professor digs his hole ever deeper: “The new GCM-free approach rejects natural variability, leaving the last vestige of skepticism in tatters.” Here is an honest version of that sentence: “I reject natural variability aprioristically, so I bished and bashed the numbers till they fitted my preconception, leaving the last vestige of my scientific credibility in tatters.”
Yet he rants blithely on to the effect that the Canadian government has “axed climate research” (hurrah!); that it gave him no funding for his research (so he got more than he deserved); that it has “shamelessly promoted the dirtiest fuels” (but CO2 is not dirty, it is the stuff of life); that it has “reneged on its international climate obligations” (no, it took lawful and timeous advantage of the opt-out clause in the Kyoto Protocol and, therefore, has no “international climate obligations”); that “two decades of international discussion have failed to prevent emissions from growing” (along with crop yields and net primary productivity of trees and plants, thanks to CO2 fertilization); and, finally, that “the world needs to drop the skepticism and change course – humanity’s future depends on it” (but, as T.H. Huxley said, to the scientist “skepticism is the highest of duties, blind faith the one unpardonable sin”, and whenever someone says humanity’s future depends on something he means his income depends on it).
Monckton of Brenchley says:
April 24, 2014 at 1:43 am
———————————————————————–
Well stated Sir. I was considering putting in the required time to defend you from the common illogical and personal attacks which appear in every thread where your perspective is discussed.
I should have known that you, unlike our friend Mr. Mosher, have the courage, respect, and capacity to defend yourself far better then I could defend you. You address each logical fallacy and biased perspective with an eloquent straightforwardness. ” Straightforwardness without civility is like a surgeons knife, effective, but unpleasant.” Sometimes those to whom you respond do not warrant a pleasant response.
BY the way, I am afraid that I recently called Mr. Mosher a troll myself. Here, David A says:
April 21, 2014 at 9:12 am on this thread, http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/04/20/dueling-climate-reports-this-one-is-worth-sharing-on-your-own-blog/ I defend that assertion.
David A says:
April 24, 2014 at 6:22 am
Too bad it appears that for Chris, “troll” means anyone with the temerity to dare to correct mistakes by Chris, speaking as he does in his imagination ex cathedra as Christ’s vicar on earth. Still waiting for his admission of error in human (eg Galileo’s trial & the atomic bombs) & earth (duration of glaciations, all longer than his supposed ~6000 years since the switch to 100,000 from 40,000 year periodicity) history, clearly not Chris’ best subjects.
The Viscount’s articles are always enjoyable/interesting reads, to me.
I rarely post. Why? Its a closed subject to me. Beginning with an open mind, I ran the numbers myself, among other things (a few years ago now). The results were clear — the evidence for AGW is a “house of cards”, at best. In summary, a statement I could stake my reputation on is this: “We should not be spending any money or effort to prevent anthropogenic global warming due to human caused carbon dioxide emissions”. Not that anyone but me knows or cares about my reputation.
Always entertaining reading and at the same time a mind expanding vocabulary lesson.
My only comment on the Lovejoy paper is that the assumption of Gaussian statistics for a chaotic system is highly questionable. It may make for easy calculations, but Levy distributions with multiple parameters are necessary for a proper description of it’s behavior.
With long tail distributions (Levy), large variations are far more frequent than Gaussian statistics show. This is true for those who imagine a benevolent distribution of weather, rather than the really fractious behavior of Mother Nature.
The Financial Markets are another area in which Gaussian distributions fail to describe behaviors. Mandelbrot has written extensively about it – his book in 2005, “The Misbehavior of Markets,” having presaged the 2008 market collapse in that it warned of the danger of assuming Gaussian distributions where there were none.
– – – – – – – – – – – –
Mosher, Monckton, John T., Lady, David A.,
The are several Christopher Monckton behaviors ( ‘Moncktonisms’) that are very endearing to me and some revolting that are often seen in Monckton’s many and always stimulating guest posts.
Although the endearing outweigh the revolting by a very large margin, one of the worst is his knee jerk reaction to many long term WUWT commenters that is a grade school boy taunt of them by calling them Trolls.
On his many very stimulating guest posts here at WUWT he is an odds on favorite in comments to call at least one person a troll.
His troll labeling of Steven Mosher and milodonharlani (John Tillman) on this thread is all too typical of his troll name calling.
REQUEST to Christopher Monckton – I ask that you please give us here and now your formal definition for troll and give us your position on the circumstances and justification for using it in polite WUWT dialog.
John
John Whitman says:
April 24, 2014 at 7:21 am
Good question. Better than taunting “troll” & spewing other schoolboy name-calling in knee-jerk reactions to the effrontery of being challenged to back up claims would be actually to respond to questions substantively.
I too have enjoyed & supported Chris’ work in the past, but he’s now in danger of becoming the Anti-Gore, a buffoon burdening skeptics as Prince Albert does alarmists. While smarter than that puffed up masher, Viscount Chris shares a similar sense of entitlement, resulting in sadly similar behavior. At least Chris isn’t the hypocrite that Al has the shame to be, attaining levels of hypocrisy not recorded since Rodrigo Borgia.
Education & entertainment combined, what more can a reader ask?
I know you’ll never give a millimetre on your individual style of writing, nor should you.
At the end of the day, that’s what all this is about: the preservation of individual styles & liberties.
The resistance to the top down controls so desired by the 1%s pushing this agenda, & their minions. Chicken Little Control Freak Cowards to a mann.
May your Empire prevail, Viscount Monckton of Brenchley,
May the Force Be Ever In Your Favour.
JD.
Meh. Since a discussion of trolling has come up anyway:
Lord Monckton,
I regret responding to this earlier with a knee jerk reaction:
I will endeavor to temper my impulse to fire back thoughtlessly in the future and regret responding so. After the fact, given time to think through your remark, I wish I had responded in this manner:
Glad to see you in such a fierce temper Lord Monckton. Looking back over my remarks I understand how you could reasonably construe my comment this way. I did not intend my remark to imply criticism of either your understanding or your efforts, both of which I remain grateful for. Give ’em hell. Best regards.
Apologies for thread derailing with apologies, so on and so forth.
At least Lovejoy seems to acknowledge the truth that the GCM,s are useless for climate forecasting and that other methods are required. For simple, transparent forecasts of the possible coming cooling based on the natural 60 and 1000 year quasi-periodicities in the temperature data and using the neutron count and 10 Be data as the best proxy for solar “activity” see several posts over the last 18 months at
http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com
Any forecast which ignores the natural 1000 year quasi- periodicity is really worthless as a basis for discussion.
Lord Monckton responds to my pointing to the differences between mathematics by ignoring the difference. Einstein’s theory was verified in the realm of physics, for a time, by looking through a telescope, but not his mathematics. LM seems not able to understand the differences between the two disciplines.
To make it simple for LM, Einstein’s math is as correct today as the day he published it. That will be true tomorrow also. But one experiment or observation may falsify Einstein’s theory tomorrow. That’s what happened to Newton’s law of gravity that I cited, but Newton’s math deriving his law is still correct.
LM also arrogantly characterizes my understanding of science and mathematics without any evidence for his assertion. For his information my PhD was awarded in 1970 by Georgia Tech’s School of Mathematics for work in dynamical systems, a topic in mathematics and physics. For all that program’s deficiencies in turning me out, with LM’s assertion about my education, I was able to understand the difference between physics, an experimental science, and mathematics which isn’t.
Really, LM, attack what you know, not what you don’t, should you want to be taken seriously.
difference between mathematics and science — brain drop out above
As far as I can tell, I’m not a troll. Steven Mosher’s observation is entirely correct. A mathematical system based on axioms is not the same as a physical theory expressed in mathematics. The latter could be refuted by empirical observations, the former could not be. The former can be “proved” in the sense that it can be shown to follow logically from the axioms. No physical theory can ever be “proved” in this sense (though a physical theory might conceivably be disproved by showing that it contained a logical inconsistency). His lordship ought to acknowledge this slip, which has little effect on the rest of his argument.
A troll is one who exhibits either no intention to contribute constructively to the discussion or an intention to contribute destructively.
Mr Mosher is a troll because he regularly pops up, makes calculatedly unhelpful, diversionary, off-topic or spiteful comments and disappears. This time he tried to divert the discussion by irrelevantly and incorrectly stating that the Theorem of Pythagoras applies only in the Euclidean plane – which, even if it had been true – was at best marginally connected with my reason for mentioning Pythagoras in the head posting.
“Mildewharlani” is a troll because he is routinely snide, arrogant, and impolite, and is prone lazily to cite Jokipedia rather than proper scientific sources, and refuses to acknowledge – or at least discuss – the scientific sources I had cited in support of a position that for some unfathomable reason he finds disagreeable.
Mr Goodman is a troll because he tries gracelessly to pick nits or split hairs whenever he can, on this occasion whining pointlessly and off topic about an obviously intentional mixed metaphor made in passing in one of my comments.
By taking a tough line on trolls like these, in recent months I have greatly reduced their number, their frequency, and their propensity to derail these threads. As a result, more and more genuinely interesting – even fascinating – commenters who would otherwise have been driven away by the crudity, viciousness, and sheer irrelevance of the trolls are now participating in ever larger numbers and with ever more intriguing comments, which makes things more entertaining as well as instructive for everyone. That is one reason why the comments in response to these particular threads are consistently numerous. People have come to know that – whatever the merits or otherwise of my head postings – the comment threads will be stimulating, not least because the trolls are not welcome and are dealt with firmly.
If I have been even more liverish than usual in response to the three trolls who have made the mistake of trying to lower the tone this time, it is because my broken foot is painful and I am confined to barracks at a time of year when I should normally be out in my hill-kilt striding through the budding heather, listening to the cry of the whaup and the song of the lark and rejoicing in the azure air of spring on the high tops, gazing half across the world and, at night, all the way across our quiet corner of the glittering universe.
The contributions on this thread about the evidence for the Maunder minimum in the wood from which violins of the Stradivari era were made, the generalization of the Pythagorean theorem in three or even four dimensions, the scientific method as applied to mathematical theorems, and the respective merits and applications of Gaussian and Levy distributions, and likewise the questions about whether Jeeves shimmied or shimmered, or about the origin and pronunciation of “timeous”, and Mr Bofill’s charming and exemplary apology, and the commenter who capped my line from Horace with the following line in the original Latin, were all designed to clarify, to edify, to illuminate, and to entertain, and not to disrupt or to destroy. It is contributions like these that we can all welcome and enjoy.
Set such gems against the snurdy hit-and-run tactics of Mr Mosher, or the furtive, cowardly, persistent rudeness of millstoneharlani, or the grouchy loutishness of Mr Goodman, and you will see why I do not welcome the way they behave. If they are incapable of raising their game and then playing it gracefully, then let them slink away and stand sulking in the corner or go play in someone else’s sandpit.
As Mao Tse-Tung used to say, in a fine instance of the concise and elegant apophthegm in the form of an analogy which was one of the charming achievements of the classical tradition of imperial China in which he was brought up and which he did so much to destroy, “Let 100 flowers bloom”. But, for all our sakes, let the blooming weeds go somewhere else.
Finally, for those few who might have been tempted to believe middlebrowharlani’s allegation that I am an “anti-American bigot”, here is the sonnet, Freedom’s Children, with which I ended my address to the 15,000 Tea Party members in North Houston:
Land of the free, awake! Lone star, arise!
Texas, to arms! Stand to, United States!
Now turns the tide that he who stands and waits
Must miss, by whose inaction freedom dies.
Home of the brave, though foes about thee rally,
Old Glory calls new sons to serve thee still.
Shall these, thy children, lack the might, the will,
When bugles cry, to answer that Reveille?
Freedom is not their right: it is the breath
That each new generation fights to breathe:
Our founding fathers’ swords we must unsheathe
To give us liberty or give us death.
Now we, the people, freedom’s children, we
Shall stand, must fight, will win! We will be free!
Shaun Lovejoy’s assumption of a “normal distribution” reminded me of several posts by the hydrologist, Demetrios Koutsoyiannis, on this site and on “Climate Audit”.
As Koutsoyiannis pointed out, the distribution of rainfall, and presumably temperatures, follows a ‘Hurst” distribution rather than a “normal” distribution.
http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/29/koutsoyiannis-et-al-2008-on-the-credibility-of-climate-predictions/
As Koutsoyiannis pointed out, anyone who assumes a “normal” distribution of rainfall. or temperatures is going to be surprised by plenty of supposedly “abnormally large” fluctuations.
Chris:
You wouldn’t bother to read the scientific paper sources upon which the Wiki articles are based. However, if you want, I can produce recent papers on the duration of each & every interglacial since the switch from 40,000 to 100,000 year periodicity. You OTOH have produced & cannot produce a single shred of evidence in support of your baseless assertion that the end of the Holocene is 5000 years overdue. I have provided infinitely more support for my accurate statements than you did in originally making your statement so easily demonstrated false, since you merely asserted this falsehood.
If you could handle the truth, you’d have found it by now. You could have done as Willis did & checked my statement by looking at graphs of Pleistocene temperature proxies & measuring the duration of each interglacial.
I didn’t discuss your “source” since it says nothing at all in support of your false claim which I corrected. If you imagine that it does, please quote therefrom. You’re simply dodging rather than admitting error. I find your assertion disagreeable for the good reason that it is false & easily shown so.
It is actually shocking that you were unaware even of the duration of the Eemian. You could have learned that by reading WUWT. MIS 11 is more relevant, as it’s considered the best model for the Holocene. It lasted 50,000 years.
Please, as I requested, show all the interglacials which lasted the mere 6400 years which you so wrongly imagine to be the norm. That would support your assertion that the end of the Holocene is overdue by 5000 years. I know you won’t because you can’t.
John
Monkton Since you are now confined and restless with a broken foot and need something keep you occupied perhaps you would care to comment on the cooling forecasts linked to in my 8:04 post above . The link is http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com
and my statement ” Any forecast which ignores the natural 1000 year quasi- periodicity is really worthless as a basis for discussion.”
If you still have time on your hands I’m sure all readers would be interested in any forecasts you yourself would make for the coming decades and centuries for comparison purposes.
Chris,
I’ll help you. Here’s a reference from Steve MacIntyre which defines interglacials in such a way that the two (MISs 7 & 9) between the Hoxnian (MIS 11) & the Eemian (MIS 5) are shorter than the Holocene:
http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/30/inconvenient-graphic/
But even by this non-standard definition, the average is still longer than the Holocene, thanks to the 16,000 years of the Eemian & ~50,000 years of MIS 11 (which of course had cooler intervals, if not perhaps comparable to the LIA in T). Happily for humanity, orbital mechanics suggest that the Holocene might most resemble the long, balmy Hoxnian.
His conclusion, same as mine, however remains valid, ie that Holocene level warmth is unusual in the Pleistocene. But all here already knew that.
– – – – – – – – – –
Christopher Monckton,
Thank you for a timely response to my request for your definition of troll. (which is the request I made to you in my comment John Whitman on April 24, 2014 at 7:21 am)
But, when I go back and look at the sequence and content of comments in this thread, those individuals that you name called as trolls are not seen, prima fascia, to exhibit the essential explicit or implicit characteristics in your definition of troll.
Please reconsider your mislabeling people trolls in the future based on your own definition of troll.
Christopher Monckton, do you wish to have my definition of troll? It would give you a view as to why I have stopped virtually all troll labeling.
John
John Whitman says:
April 24, 2014 at 9:39 am
By Chris’ definition, he’s the one who initiated trollish behavior. In my case, I merely pointed out that he was wrong about his unsupported 5000 year assertion, citing the counter example of the Eemian, with which I assumed any poster here would be familiar.
He then initiated the nastiness in response, to which I replied in kind, possibly upping the ante. Sadly, that is his MO.
John Whitman says:
April 24, 2014 at 7:21 am
——————————————————–
Hi John, I appreciate the sincerity of your comments. I do think that Mr. Mosher does indeed enter troll territory in, for instance, his comment calling the authors of the NIPCC study regarding the benefits of O2, “clowns, stepping deeper with a comment that would not have been possible had he actually read the detailed referenced report. Steven M further exasperates this with a refusal to discuss reasonable criticisms of his comment.
@Larry Geary says: April 23, 2014 at 12:53 pm
“the notorious Viscount Christopher Monckton of Brenchley, who – within hours…”
Don’t discount the viscount!
====================
‘Cos the Lord won’t be floored
Milodonhardoni, this is the first comment I find from you directed to Mr Monckton. “I’m not incorrect, but you are. Indeed laughably so. Obviously you have so little regard for truth that you didn’t even bother to check up on reality. Had you bothered to educate yourself, you’d have discovered immediately how wrong you were.”
——————————-
Perhaps you can show me where you earlier addressed him with respectful disagreement.
David A says:
April 24, 2014 at 10:08 am
Shouldn’t it be obvious that that’s a follow-on comment? Don’t know how you missed the first one:
milodonharlani says:
April 23, 2014 at 3:44 pm
Eric Worrall says:
April 23, 2014 at 3:36 pm
We are not overdue. Most recent interglacials have lasted longer than the current ~11,400 years. The previous one, the Eemian, lasted 16,000 years, for instance. In fact the only recent one shorter than the Holocene to date was an unusual double dip affair.
Because it doesn’t say “Monckton”?
So what I quoted was your first comment to Mr. Monckton.
Before you addressed him so rudely, could you show me where he spoke rudely to you?