'Correcting' Trenberth et al.

(See the note below before taking this post seriously – Anthony)

Guest essay by Steven Wilde

clip_image002

Here we see the classic energy budget analysis supporting the hypothesis that the surface of the Earth is warmer than the S-B equation would predict due to 324 Wm2 of ‘Back Radiation’ from the atmosphere to the surface.

It is proposed that it is Back Radiation that lifts the surface temperature from 255K, as predicted by S-B, to the 288K actually observed because the 324 Back Radiation exceeds the surface radiation to the air of 222 Wm2 ( 390 Wm2 less 168 Wm2) by 102 Wm2. It is suggested that there is a net radiative flow from atmosphere to surface of 102 Wm2.

I now discuss an alternative possibility.

The portions I wish to focus on are:

i) 390 Wm2 Surface Radiation to atmosphere

ii) 78 Wm2 Evapo-transpiration surface to atmosphere

iii) 24 Thermals surface to atmosphere

iv) 324 Back Radiation atmosphere to surface

The budget needs to be amended as follows:

The 78 Wm2 needs to be corrected to zero because the moist adiabatic lapse rate during ascent is less than the dry lapse rate on adiabatic descent which ensures that after the first convective cycle there is as much energy back at the surface as before Evapo-transpiration began.

The 24 Wm2 for thermals needs to be corrected to zero because dry air that rises in thermals then warms back up to the original temperature on descent.

Therefore neither ii) nor iii) should be included in the radiative budget at all. They involve purely non radiative means of energy transfer and have no place in the radiative budget since, being net zero, they do not cool the surface. AGW theory and the Trenberth diagram incorrectly include them as a net surface cooling influence.

Furthermore, they cannot reduce Earth’s surface temperature below 255K because both conduction and convection are slower methods of energy transmission than radiation. To reduce the surface temperature below 255K they would have to work faster than radiation which is obviously not so.

They can only raise a surface temperature above the S-B expectation and for Earth that is 33K.

Once the first convective overturning cycle has been completed neither Thermals nor Evapo-transpiration can have any additional warming effect at the surface provided mass, gravity and insolation remain constant.

As regards iv) the correct figure for the radiative flux from atmosphere to surface should be 222 Wm2 because items ii) and iii) should not have been included.

That also leaves the surface to atmosphere radiative flux at 222 Wm2 which taken with the 168 Wm2 absorbed directly by the surface comes to the 390 Wm2 required for radiation from the surface.

The rest of the energy budget diagram appears to be correct.

So, how to decide whether my interpretation is accurate?

I think it is generally accepted that the lapse rate slope marks the points in the atmosphere where there is energy balance within molecules that are at the correct height for their temperature.

Since the lapse rate slope intersects with the surface it follows that DWIR equals UWIR for a zero net radiative balance if a molecule at the surface is at the correct temperature for its height. If it is not at the correct surface temperature it will simply move towards the correct height by virtue of density variations in the horizontal plane (convection).

Thus, 222 UWIR at the surface should equal 222 DWIR at the surface AND 222 plus 168 should add up to 390 and, of course, it does.

AGW theory erroneously assumes that Thermals and Evapo-transpiration have a net cooling effect on the surface and so they have to uplift the radiative exchange at the surface from 222 Wm2 to 324 Wm2 and additionally they assume that the extra 102 Wm2 is attributable to a net radiative flux towards the surface from the atmosphere.

The truth is that there is no net flow of radiation in any direction at the surface once the air at the surface is at its correct temperature for its height, which is 288K and not 255K. The lapse rate intersecting at the surface tells us that there can be no net radiative flux at the surface when surface temperature is at 288K.

A rise in surface temperature above the S-B prediction is inevitable for an atmosphere capable of conducting and convection because those two processes introduce a delay in the transmission of radiative energy through the system. Conduction and convection are a function of mass held within a gravity field.

Energy being used to hold up the weight of an atmosphere via conduction and convection is no longer available for radiation to space since energy cannot be in two places at once.

The greenhouse effect is therefore a product of atmospheric mass rather than radiative characteristics of constituent molecules as is clearly seen when the Trenberth diagram is corrected and the lapse rate considered.

Since one can never have more than 390 Wm2 at the surface without increasing conduction and convection via changes in mass, gravity or insolation a change in the quantity of GHGs cannot make any difference. All they can do is redistribute energy within the atmosphere.

There is a climate effect from the air circulation changes but, due to the tiny proportion of Earth’s atmospheric mass comprised of GHGs, too small to measure compared to natural variability.

What Happens When Radiative Gases Increase Or Decrease?

Applying the above correction to the Trenberth figures we can now see that 222 Wm2 radiation from the surface to the atmosphere is simply balanced by 222 Wm2 radiation from the atmosphere to the surface. That is the energy being constantly expended by the surface via conduction and convection to keep the weight of the atmosphere off the surface. We must ignore it for the purpose of energy transmission to space since the same energy cannot be in two places at once.

We then have 168 Wm2 left over at the surface which represents energy absorbed by the surface after 30 Wm2 has been reflected from the surface , 77 Wm2 has been reflected by the atmosphere and 67 Wm2 has been absorbed by the atmosphere before it reaches the surface.

That 168 Wm2 is then transferred to the atmosphere by conduction and convection leaving a total of 235 Wm2 in the atmosphere (168 plus 67).

It is that 235 Wm2 that must escape to space if radiative balance is to be maintained.

Now, remember that the lapse rate slope represents the positions in the atmosphere where molecules are at their correct temperature for their height.

At any given moment convection arranges that half the mass of the atmosphere is too warm for its height and half the mass is too cold for its height.

The reason for that is that the convective process runs out of energy to lift the atmosphere any higher against gravity when the two halves equalise.

It must follow that at any given time half of the GHGs must be too warm for their height and the other half too cold for their height.

That results in density differentials that cause the warm molecules to rise and the cold molecules to fall.

If a GHG molecule is too warm for its height then DWIR back to the surface dominates but the molecule rises away from the surface and cools until DWIR again equals UWIR.

If a GHG molecule is too cold for its height then UWIR to space dominates but the molecule then falls until DWIR again equals UWIR.

The net effect is that any potential for GHGs to warm or cool the surface is negated by the height changes relative to the slope of the adiabatic lapse rate.

Let’s now look at how that outgoing 235 Wm2 is dealt with if radiative gas concentrations change.

It is recognised that radiative gases tend to reduce the size of the Atmospheric Window (40 Wm2) so we will assume a reduction from 40 Wm2 to 35 Wm2 by way of example.

If that happens then DWIR for molecules that are too warm for their height will increase but the subsequent rise in height will cause the molecule to rise above its correct position along the lapse rate slope with UWIR to space increasing at the expense of DWIR back to the surface and rising will only stop when DWIR again equals UWIR.

Since UWIR to space increases to compensate for the shrinking of the atmospheric window (from 40 Wm2 to 35 Wm2) the figure for radiative emission from the atmosphere will increase from 165 to 170 which keeps the system in balance with 235 Wm2 still outgoing.

If the atmosphere had no radiative capability at all then radiative emission from the atmosphere would be zero but the Atmospheric Window would release 235 Wm2 from the surface.

If the atmosphere were 100% radiative then the Atmospheric Window from the surface would be zero and the atmosphere would radiate the entire 235 Wm2.

==============================================================

Note: I’m glad to see a number of people pointing out how flawed the argument is. Every once in awhile we need to take a look at the ‘Slayer’ mentality of thinking about radiative balance, just to keep sharp on the topic. At first I thought this should go straight into the hopper, and then I thought it might make some good target practice, so I published it without any caveat.

Readers did not disappoint.

Now you can watch the fun as they react over at PSI.  – Anthony

P.S. Readers might also enjoy my experiment on debunking the PSI light bulb experiment, and note the reactions in comments, entirely opposite to this one. New WUWT-TV segment: Slaying the ‘slayers’ with Watts

Update: Let me add that the author assuredly should have included a link to the underlying document, Earth’s Global Energy Budget by Kiehl and Trenberth …

0 0 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

417 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
hunter
April 8, 2014 7:30 am

The more I look at this post, the less there is to like.
This is the third post in about a week that hurts the reputation of this blog and skeptics in general.
Skeptics are winning by sticking to the facts and questioning the consensus.
We do not need people using narrative to explain away physics.
We do not need conspiracies about governments buying up Australian farms.

April 8, 2014 7:31 am

“I have to agree with Dr. Spencer. Very sad to see this here.”
Roy thinks that a non radiative atmosphere would tend towards isothermal and that convection would cease.
I think he is wrong in that because one cannot suppress convection where the surface is unevenly heated and KE converts to PE with height leading to a temperature decline with height without needing radiative losses from height.
With no radiative losses from within the atmosphere there would still be convection and it would be more vigorous in order to maintain top of atmosphere energy loss from the surface alone.
Trenberth is right to distinguish between the 165 emitted from the atmosphere and the 40 emitted through the atmospheric window from the surface but fails to realise that if one increases then the other decreases to maintain the same TOA energy loss.

Neil
April 8, 2014 7:34 am

This might show up my ignorance, but shouldn’t there be two energy budget diagrams, one for daytime/sunnyside and one for night time? The dynamics of each must be so different as to make it impossible to combine the two. The transfer mechanisms change, obviously, there’s nothing coming in on the dark side, but there’s still stuff going out…

April 8, 2014 7:41 am

Missing in Wilde’s essay (and for years) in Trenberth’s diagram too, is the fact that the 30 Wm² reflected from the surface is a VARIABLE and is surface albedo dependent. Under conditions of wide area snowcover, the reflectivity at short wavelengths (SWs) almost completely pierces the GHGs, as they cannot intercept and re-direct the SW back down or sideways. So the 107 Wm² outflow is in reality a larger number with the net effect of recent snowcover and cloud increases. How do we know???
Evidence is the slowing rate of oceanic warming increase, and the 17 – now going on 18 year atmospheric temperature flatline. Result = Lower planetary energy retention. It is not “mostly hidden in the deep ocean,” but off the planet and not returning!!!

Nylo
April 8, 2014 7:49 am

The 24 Wm2 for thermals needs to be corrected to zero because dry air that rises in thermals then warms back up to the original temperature on descent.
Wrong. It doesn’t. It may gain as much energy in the process of going down as it lost when going up, but it does not warm back to the same temperature, the temperature is lower because in the middle, between going up and coming down, it lost energy radiating it to space. So before the process begins we have surface air at some temperature, and after the process we have surface air at a lower temperature. In my planet, that’s called surface cooling.

April 8, 2014 7:55 am

Nylo said:
“It may gain as much energy in the process of going down as it lost when going up, but it does not warm back to the same temperature”
It does, because new solar energy continues to flow in to replace the portion lost by leakage from atmospheric emissivity and clouds.
It is all in the timing and once the first convective cycle has completed there is no surface cooling from the adiabatic portion (most of it) of convective overturning.

Brian
April 8, 2014 8:09 am

What?

April 8, 2014 8:11 am

Leonard Weinstein says:
April 8, 2014 at 7:24 am
Thanks for responding. But it is not about water, and not about the gradient. It is about the actual temperatures at each altitude where water vapor is absent.
“It can be seen from the infra-red cooling model of Figure 19 that the greenhouse effect theory predicts a strong influence from the greenhouse gases on the barometric temperature profile. Moreover, the modelled net effect of the greenhouse gases on infra-red cooling varies substantially over the entire atmospheric profile.
However, when we analysed the barometric temperature profiles of the radiosondes in this paper, we were unable to detect any influence from greenhouse gases. Instead, the profiles were very well described by the thermodynamic properties of the main atmospheric gases, i.e., N 2 and O 2 , in a gravitational field.”
From Pg. 18 of referenced research paper

schmidtyfi
April 8, 2014 8:12 am

I cannot believe people are taking this for anything other than the hilarious satire that it is.
FWIW, Mr. Wilde, I think you should add a conclusion that this shows 97% statistically significant agreement with CAGW, but that more funding is needed. Then, take your pick of publishing offers, professorships, and conference keynotes.

Nylo
April 8, 2014 8:19 am

Stephen said:
It does, because new solar energy continues to flow in to replace the portion lost by leakage from atmospheric emissivity and clouds.
Solar energy comes mostly in the visible spectre and the air we are talking about is transparent to it. We have already accounted for the solar energy in its entirety in other terms of Spencer’s model for the energy balance as entering the surface layer. You cannot add it twice at different heights. If you want to add it in the higher layer (good luck with the demosntration), then substract it from the lower layer.

April 8, 2014 8:20 am

Also the effect of water vapor is not what has been assumed.
“While water vapour is a greenhouse gas, the effects of water vapour on the temperature profile did not appear to be related to its radiative properties, but rather its different molecular structure and the latent heat released/gained by water in its gas/liquid/solid phase changes.
For this reason, our results suggest that the magnitude of the greenhouse effect is very small, perhaps negligible. At any rate, its magnitude appears to be too small to be detected from the archived radiosonde data.”
Open Peer Rev. J., 2014; 19 (Atm. Sci.), Ver. 0.1. http://oprj.net/articles/atmospheric-science/19 page 18 of 28

HankHenry
April 8, 2014 8:24 am

Neil, you could make two diagrams, but if you’re simplifying things, one budget works. The Boltzmann equation deals with the simplest kind of model of all. I do often wonder if the earth rotated faster if it would affect the average surface temperature. I think the only thing speeding up rotation would do is even out the temperatures somewhat. This could mean very slightly lower temperatures because Newton’s law of cooling says that things at a higher temperature cool faster. Hence, the higher daytime temps might lead to greater overall cooling.

April 8, 2014 8:31 am

Nylo said:
“If you want to add it in the higher layer (good luck with the demosntration), then substract it from the lower layer.”
Adding it at the surface is just fine. It soon gets conducted and convected to the air to replace what is lost by the air so no double counting.

April 8, 2014 8:40 am

Why Anthony?
Group A
Anthony, Willis, Tisdale, Monckton
group B
Goddard, Archibald, Tallbloke, Wilde, Skydragons,
Group A: sometimes right, sometimes wrong.
group B: not even wrong.
Other difference. You will note over time that group A is actually open to changing their minds.
group B? I only say “triple point” and those who know the history will get it

REPLY:
the journey to a right or wrong answer is just as important. This was good practice in seeing how well people can sort out the answer. -A

Nylo
April 8, 2014 8:50 am

Stephen Wilde said:
It soon gets conducted and convected to the air to replace what is lost by the air
If you are saying that the air at altitude receives energy by means of conduction and convection, please explain how that very same process of conduction and convection does not substract heat from the surface. How can you add energy to one layer without removing it from the layer the energy comes from?
You had previously indicated that conduction and convection did not matter or had a balance of 0W/m2 (Thermals surface to atmosphere). You said that Trenberth’s 24W/m2 were gained back at the surface when the air came down. But now you are saying that this energy is lost to space, or is used to “replace what is lost by the air”. If it is lost, it is lost. Like you 🙂

Neil
April 8, 2014 8:51 am

henryhank
thanks for response
I suppose what I’m thinking is that the complex nature of this energy budget will not be served by this simplification, as different scenarios, day and night will have differnet variable changes attributable to different phenomena/causes in each. If one is trying to distinguish the changes and attribute them to, say CO2, water vapour, whatever, then the fundamental conditions must be considered. The simplified single energy budget diagram will hide this, or at least obscure it. (I am convinced that inc temp result in inc CO2 anyhow). So to try and attribute cause and effect in the simplified diagram, is, like trying to work with an average of two numbers and say what one of them is from that – but in a much more complex and chaotic system – just not possible.
Not sure I put the analogy very well, but

April 8, 2014 8:58 am

I think it would be of great interest for people who wants to understand all the debate about the “science of global warming” if someone could explain WHY , from sound physical science, changes in CO2 in the atmosphere of the magnitude involve here, CANNOT DRIVE CHANGES IN GLOBAL CLIMATE; and the explanation would rather avoid mathematical models and childish quarrels between advocates of different theories….
or perhaps I am wrong and changes in CO2 CAN BRING ABOUT CHANGES IN GLOBAL CLIMATE …

April 8, 2014 8:58 am

[snip – I think you wrote this before I let everyone in on the fun, see the comment and the update, and you are welcome to resubmit – Anthony]

dp
April 8, 2014 9:05 am

This post comes 7 days too late. It is a joke, right?
REPLY: yep, just some fun target practice – Anthony

April 8, 2014 9:09 am

Nylo,
Your reading of my words is confused.
Anthony,
All posts here are good target practice for someone.
If you thought it was only good for the hopper then I would have preferred you had said so and not bothered to use it.
As things stand so far the objections are either sweeping generalisations without substance or appear to result from misreading.
An established fact is that air does warm as a result of the non-radiative adiabatic processe as it descends, some have accepted as much. That causes problems for radiative theory.
REPLY: My opinion on the backradiation and lapse rate silliness is well known, you should have known better than to submit it. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Hopefully you’ll learn something from the comments. – Anthony

April 8, 2014 9:11 am

Oh finally, i can see the greenhouse ‘glass’ in the upper troposphere, creating the non-existent greenhouse which would of course entail no life on this planet. Thanks Trenberth et al. Your grade 8 science studies are proceeding nicely !

sun Spot
April 8, 2014 9:24 am

There is nothing special about new label’s for radiation! “cAGW” past present and future will not change what radiative physics has always been. Here are with 17 years of no warming while the Slayers obfuscate by making up back radiation to be a new boogie man. How many angels can dance on radiations pin head?

Slartibartfast
April 8, 2014 9:38 am

That’s a good idea, really the only thing that is happening is retarding the escape of energy to space – Anthony

So, you’re saying that the distinction represented by “backradiation” is retarded?
Harsh, but I can go with that. 😉

Amatør1
April 8, 2014 9:44 am

Box of Rocks says:
April 8, 2014 at 5:14 am
I have a sens that the original idea from Trenberth is incorrect, I at this point in time can’t put my finger on it.

Consider the idea that ‘backradiation’ is twice as bright as the Sun as a candidate.