'Correcting' Trenberth et al.

(See the note below before taking this post seriously – Anthony)

Guest essay by Steven Wilde

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Here we see the classic energy budget analysis supporting the hypothesis that the surface of the Earth is warmer than the S-B equation would predict due to 324 Wm2 of ‘Back Radiation’ from the atmosphere to the surface.

It is proposed that it is Back Radiation that lifts the surface temperature from 255K, as predicted by S-B, to the 288K actually observed because the 324 Back Radiation exceeds the surface radiation to the air of 222 Wm2 ( 390 Wm2 less 168 Wm2) by 102 Wm2. It is suggested that there is a net radiative flow from atmosphere to surface of 102 Wm2.

I now discuss an alternative possibility.

The portions I wish to focus on are:

i) 390 Wm2 Surface Radiation to atmosphere

ii) 78 Wm2 Evapo-transpiration surface to atmosphere

iii) 24 Thermals surface to atmosphere

iv) 324 Back Radiation atmosphere to surface

The budget needs to be amended as follows:

The 78 Wm2 needs to be corrected to zero because the moist adiabatic lapse rate during ascent is less than the dry lapse rate on adiabatic descent which ensures that after the first convective cycle there is as much energy back at the surface as before Evapo-transpiration began.

The 24 Wm2 for thermals needs to be corrected to zero because dry air that rises in thermals then warms back up to the original temperature on descent.

Therefore neither ii) nor iii) should be included in the radiative budget at all. They involve purely non radiative means of energy transfer and have no place in the radiative budget since, being net zero, they do not cool the surface. AGW theory and the Trenberth diagram incorrectly include them as a net surface cooling influence.

Furthermore, they cannot reduce Earth’s surface temperature below 255K because both conduction and convection are slower methods of energy transmission than radiation. To reduce the surface temperature below 255K they would have to work faster than radiation which is obviously not so.

They can only raise a surface temperature above the S-B expectation and for Earth that is 33K.

Once the first convective overturning cycle has been completed neither Thermals nor Evapo-transpiration can have any additional warming effect at the surface provided mass, gravity and insolation remain constant.

As regards iv) the correct figure for the radiative flux from atmosphere to surface should be 222 Wm2 because items ii) and iii) should not have been included.

That also leaves the surface to atmosphere radiative flux at 222 Wm2 which taken with the 168 Wm2 absorbed directly by the surface comes to the 390 Wm2 required for radiation from the surface.

The rest of the energy budget diagram appears to be correct.

So, how to decide whether my interpretation is accurate?

I think it is generally accepted that the lapse rate slope marks the points in the atmosphere where there is energy balance within molecules that are at the correct height for their temperature.

Since the lapse rate slope intersects with the surface it follows that DWIR equals UWIR for a zero net radiative balance if a molecule at the surface is at the correct temperature for its height. If it is not at the correct surface temperature it will simply move towards the correct height by virtue of density variations in the horizontal plane (convection).

Thus, 222 UWIR at the surface should equal 222 DWIR at the surface AND 222 plus 168 should add up to 390 and, of course, it does.

AGW theory erroneously assumes that Thermals and Evapo-transpiration have a net cooling effect on the surface and so they have to uplift the radiative exchange at the surface from 222 Wm2 to 324 Wm2 and additionally they assume that the extra 102 Wm2 is attributable to a net radiative flux towards the surface from the atmosphere.

The truth is that there is no net flow of radiation in any direction at the surface once the air at the surface is at its correct temperature for its height, which is 288K and not 255K. The lapse rate intersecting at the surface tells us that there can be no net radiative flux at the surface when surface temperature is at 288K.

A rise in surface temperature above the S-B prediction is inevitable for an atmosphere capable of conducting and convection because those two processes introduce a delay in the transmission of radiative energy through the system. Conduction and convection are a function of mass held within a gravity field.

Energy being used to hold up the weight of an atmosphere via conduction and convection is no longer available for radiation to space since energy cannot be in two places at once.

The greenhouse effect is therefore a product of atmospheric mass rather than radiative characteristics of constituent molecules as is clearly seen when the Trenberth diagram is corrected and the lapse rate considered.

Since one can never have more than 390 Wm2 at the surface without increasing conduction and convection via changes in mass, gravity or insolation a change in the quantity of GHGs cannot make any difference. All they can do is redistribute energy within the atmosphere.

There is a climate effect from the air circulation changes but, due to the tiny proportion of Earth’s atmospheric mass comprised of GHGs, too small to measure compared to natural variability.

What Happens When Radiative Gases Increase Or Decrease?

Applying the above correction to the Trenberth figures we can now see that 222 Wm2 radiation from the surface to the atmosphere is simply balanced by 222 Wm2 radiation from the atmosphere to the surface. That is the energy being constantly expended by the surface via conduction and convection to keep the weight of the atmosphere off the surface. We must ignore it for the purpose of energy transmission to space since the same energy cannot be in two places at once.

We then have 168 Wm2 left over at the surface which represents energy absorbed by the surface after 30 Wm2 has been reflected from the surface , 77 Wm2 has been reflected by the atmosphere and 67 Wm2 has been absorbed by the atmosphere before it reaches the surface.

That 168 Wm2 is then transferred to the atmosphere by conduction and convection leaving a total of 235 Wm2 in the atmosphere (168 plus 67).

It is that 235 Wm2 that must escape to space if radiative balance is to be maintained.

Now, remember that the lapse rate slope represents the positions in the atmosphere where molecules are at their correct temperature for their height.

At any given moment convection arranges that half the mass of the atmosphere is too warm for its height and half the mass is too cold for its height.

The reason for that is that the convective process runs out of energy to lift the atmosphere any higher against gravity when the two halves equalise.

It must follow that at any given time half of the GHGs must be too warm for their height and the other half too cold for their height.

That results in density differentials that cause the warm molecules to rise and the cold molecules to fall.

If a GHG molecule is too warm for its height then DWIR back to the surface dominates but the molecule rises away from the surface and cools until DWIR again equals UWIR.

If a GHG molecule is too cold for its height then UWIR to space dominates but the molecule then falls until DWIR again equals UWIR.

The net effect is that any potential for GHGs to warm or cool the surface is negated by the height changes relative to the slope of the adiabatic lapse rate.

Let’s now look at how that outgoing 235 Wm2 is dealt with if radiative gas concentrations change.

It is recognised that radiative gases tend to reduce the size of the Atmospheric Window (40 Wm2) so we will assume a reduction from 40 Wm2 to 35 Wm2 by way of example.

If that happens then DWIR for molecules that are too warm for their height will increase but the subsequent rise in height will cause the molecule to rise above its correct position along the lapse rate slope with UWIR to space increasing at the expense of DWIR back to the surface and rising will only stop when DWIR again equals UWIR.

Since UWIR to space increases to compensate for the shrinking of the atmospheric window (from 40 Wm2 to 35 Wm2) the figure for radiative emission from the atmosphere will increase from 165 to 170 which keeps the system in balance with 235 Wm2 still outgoing.

If the atmosphere had no radiative capability at all then radiative emission from the atmosphere would be zero but the Atmospheric Window would release 235 Wm2 from the surface.

If the atmosphere were 100% radiative then the Atmospheric Window from the surface would be zero and the atmosphere would radiate the entire 235 Wm2.

==============================================================

Note: I’m glad to see a number of people pointing out how flawed the argument is. Every once in awhile we need to take a look at the ‘Slayer’ mentality of thinking about radiative balance, just to keep sharp on the topic. At first I thought this should go straight into the hopper, and then I thought it might make some good target practice, so I published it without any caveat.

Readers did not disappoint.

Now you can watch the fun as they react over at PSI.  – Anthony

P.S. Readers might also enjoy my experiment on debunking the PSI light bulb experiment, and note the reactions in comments, entirely opposite to this one. New WUWT-TV segment: Slaying the ‘slayers’ with Watts

Update: Let me add that the author assuredly should have included a link to the underlying document, Earth’s Global Energy Budget by Kiehl and Trenberth …

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joeldshore
April 12, 2014 1:49 pm

Bart says:

But, that is not the case. Atmospheric convection also transfers heat to the GHGs, so that it can be radiated away into space. It is like having a spillway beside the dam which prevents the water from overflowing the top of the dam in the first place. You can build the dam higher, but the spillway is still going to keep the flow going just as it was before, and the extra height of the dam has no effect.
That is the point I have made in preceding comments on this page. I believe it is why we currently observe essentially no surface temperature to CO2 concentration sensitivity at all.

The only problem with your hypothesis is that it has no theoretical or empirical support. The modern theory of radiative-convective equilibrium makes it clear essentially why it does not work this way: The atmosphere is only unstable to convection when the lapse rate exceeds the adiabatic lapse rate.
Empirical support for your hypothesis would involve observing a much larger tropical tropospheric amplification (“hot spot”) than the models predict. In fact, while the data has various problems, the actual argument is about whether the amplification is LESS than the models predict or whether it is compatible within the substantial error bars.

Trick
April 12, 2014 2:27 pm

Kristian 9:34am: “What ‘incoming’ energy?”
The emission of of terrestrial photons toward the surface by atm. mass. In your view, the atm. does NOT radiate any photons toward the surface then?
If so, what happens to these photons in your view? If not, how does the atm. manage to emit photons toward space but not emit photons toward the surface?

gbaikie
April 12, 2014 2:57 pm

— Trick says:
April 12, 2014 at 6:52 am
Kristian 6:36am: “Atmospheric IR is not incoming energy for the surface.”
In your view, what happens (in basic science terms) to the incoming energy at the incoming terrestrial photon’s death upon being annihilated at the surface?–
Energy [and matter is conserved] photon only converts to heat, when it can heat something.

Trick
April 12, 2014 3:24 pm

Frank 9:54am: “…they provide the correct answer for radiation leaving an object ONLY when absorption and emission have come into equilibrium.”
Yes. The basic understanding all comes from radiation in equilibrium with matter. All of thermodynamics tells us little about the time to come to equilibrium.
“The Schwarzschild eqn is correct for all situations and Planck’s law can be derived from it. The Planck function B(T) is essential to both.”
Does not compute. Planck distribution (or Planck function) and Planck law mean the same thing AFAIK & is for all wavelengths across the spectrum;,S-B is its integral over an interval. There are whole text books on atm. radiation without even mentioning Schwarzschild eqn. (unless has another name) which as far as I can tell is for only one wavelength & no scattering which is far from fundamental. Maybe you have an online or text cite for what you really mean.

Trick
April 12, 2014 3:32 pm

gbaikie 2:57pm: “Energy [and matter is conserved] photon only converts to heat, when it can heat something.”
In your view then, what happens to any atm. emitted photon’s energy when that photon is annihilated at the surface?

gbaikie
April 12, 2014 8:05 pm

-Trick says:
April 12, 2014 at 3:32 pm
gbaikie 2:57pm: “Energy [and matter is conserved] photon only converts to heat, when it can heat something.”
In your view then, what happens to any atm. emitted photon’s energy when that photon is annihilated at the surface?-
Photons and other energy and matter is not annihilated. Matter can converted into energy, but not annihilated. Energy in theory can be converted into matter, but not annihilated.
Anything which can create significant amount of heat, can be made into an energy source, and photon emitted from atmosphere has not been used as energy source, so it would seem there is not hundreds of watts per square meter of energy which can heat something. .

Trick
April 12, 2014 8:13 pm

gbaikie 8:05pm: “Photons…is not annihilated.”
95-98% of the photons aimed at the L&O surface are not reflected by direct measurement . What happened to that huge majority of photons? The earth L&O surface is certainly not transparent.

gbaikie
April 13, 2014 12:57 am

-Trick says:
April 12, 2014 at 8:13 pm
gbaikie 8:05pm: “Photons…is not annihilated.”
95-98% of the photons aimed at the L&O surface are not reflected by direct measurement . What happened to that huge majority of photons? The earth L&O surface is certainly not transparent.-
How is it determined the photons are aimed at the surface?
I would say it seems a characteristic of such photons is they are not aimed in any sense of the word- as go in random directions
Whereas in comparison, sunlight is directed light.
Plus one has consider the element of time. One have a blinking directed light being different
then
And this IR may be random and blinking light.
So are watts measured, being accurately measured in terms of watts of power- certain amount of energy occurring in interval of time.

david(swuk)
April 13, 2014 2:25 am

Trick asked:-
“In your view then, what happens to any atm. emitted photon’s energy when that photon is annihilated at the surface?”
the plumber says that it merely returns that itty-bit of energy back to source and which, with most of it being beyond the IR, means it happens mainly above the Polar Regions.
Next?

April 13, 2014 4:57 am

joeldshore said:
“Stephen’s misunderstanding leads to a lot of nonsense, such as the incorrect notion that the equilibrium state of a gas in a gravitational field is not isothermal and to an idea that the adiabatic lapse rate is some sort of natural state of the system, rather than the truth which is that it is a stability limit.
I.e., much of the atmosphere ends up with a lapse rate close to the adiabatic lapse rate because the solution to the problem of purely radiative equilibrium would lead to even larger lapse rates, which are unstable to convection and it is convection that drives the environmental lapse rate down to the appropriate (dry or saturated) adiabatic lapse rate. And, of course, it does so by transporting energy up in the atmosphere.”
I agree with a lot of that but there are a couple of ‘errors’.
If a gas could reach equilibrium within a gravitational field then by definition it would be isothermal..
The trouble is that a gas in a gravity field subjected to uneven surface heating from below can never achieve equilibrium and so will never become isothermal.
The reason is that density differentials in the horizontal plane will be constantly renewed by continuing uneven surface heating.
In other words, the atmosphere will always show a temperature decline with height, will never become isothermal and convective overturning could never be prevented.
Of course, energy is transported up into the atmosphere but it becomes gravitational potential energy (GPE) which is not heat and does not radiate. It is because gravitational potential energy is not heat that the temperature declines with height.
Curt’s distinction between gravitational potential energy (which does not radiate) and a substance (which does radiate) is not appropriate.
Gravitational potential energy can only exist within a substance and the more of it that the substance carries the less the substance will radiate.
So, we have all that substance (mass) within an atmosphere, every particle of which carries a load of gravitational potential energy proportional to its weight and height but none of that energy can radiate down to the ground.
Yet K&T and many others here insist that it can radiate down to the ground which is why they add 102 Wm2 to the DWIR figure which should only be 222 Wm2.
Instead, that gravitational potential energy gets moved back towards the ground in the descent phase of the adiabatic cycle and in the process it returns to KE which can be radiated from any aerosols or GHGs carried within the air mass.
Note that even if there were no GHGs there would be plenty of aerosols kicked up from the surface by winds to allow radiation to space of the KE newly reconverted from GPE on the descent.
I see that it is still being asserted that there is no true adiabatic cycle due to leakage of energy to space from the adiabatic cycle.
I have said several times that any such leakage is replaced by newly arriving solar energy so that the convective overturning of the atmosphere remains wholly adiabatic.
The correct way to deal with GPE is to recognise that it returns to KE on the descent phase and that there is therefore no need to propose that extra 102 Wm2 of DWIR.
Indeed, if one does increase DWIR above 222 Wm2 then there is double counting.
i) The radiative exchange between surface and atmosphere is in balance at 222 Wm2.
ii) The adiabatic exchange between surface and atmosphere is in balance at 102 Wm2.
iii) Energy absorbed by surface and atmosphere from space ( 67 + 168) is in balance with energy emitted by surface and atmosphere to space (165 + 30 + 40) which is 235 in each case.
For the fourth time I ask, what is wrong with that ?

April 13, 2014 4:58 am

joeldshore said:
“Stephen’s misunderstanding leads to a lot of nonsense, such as the incorrect notion that the equilibrium state of a gas in a gravitational field is not isothermal and to an idea that the adiabatic lapse rate is some sort of natural state of the system, rather than the truth which is that it is a stability limit.
I.e., much of the atmosphere ends up with a lapse rate close to the adiabatic lapse rate because the solution to the problem of purely radiative equilibrium would lead to even larger lapse rates, which are unstable to convection and it is convection that drives the environmental lapse rate down to the appropriate (dry or saturated) adiabatic lapse rate. And, of course, it does so by transporting energy up in the atmosphere.”
I agree with a lot of that but there are a couple of ‘errors’.
If a gas could reach equilibrium within a gravitational field then by definition it would be isothermal..
The trouble is that a gas in a gravity field subjected to uneven surface heating from below can never achieve equilibrium and so will never become isothermal.
The reason is that density differentials in the horizontal plane will be constantly renewed by continuing uneven surface heating.
In other words, the atmosphere will always show a temperature decline with height, will never become isothermal and convective overturning could never be prevented.
Of course, energy is transported up into the atmosphere but it becomes gravitational potential energy (GPE) which is not heat and does not radiate. It is because gravitational potential energy is not heat that the temperature declines with height.
Curt’s distinction between gravitational potential energy (which does not radiate) and a substance (which does radiate) is not appropriate.
Gravitational potential energy can only exist within a substance and the more of it that the substance carries the less the substance will radiate.
So, we have all that substance (mass) within an atmosphere, every particle of which carries a load of gravitational potential energy proportional to its weight and height but none of that energy can radiate down to the ground.
Yet K&T and many others here insist that it can radiate down to the ground which is why they add 102 Wm2 to the DWIR figure which should only be 222 Wm2.
Instead, that gravitational potential energy gets moved back towards the ground in the descent phase of the adiabatic cycle and in the process it returns to KE which can be radiated from any aerosols or GHGs carried within the air mass.
Note that even if there were no GHGs there would be plenty of aerosols kicked up from the surface by winds to allow radiation to space of the KE newly reconverted from GPE on the descent.
I see that it is still being asserted that there is no true adiabatic cycle due to leakage of energy to space from the adiabatic cycle.
I have said several times that any such leakage is replaced by newly arriving solar energy so that the convective overturning of the atmosphere remains wholly adiabatic.
The correct way to deal with GPE is to recognise that it returns to KE on the descent phase and that there is therefore no need to propose that extra 102 Wm2 of DWIR.
Indeed, if one does increase DWIR above 222 Wm2 then there is double counting.
i) The radiative exchange between surface and atmosphere is in balance at 222 Wm2.
ii) The adiabatic exchange between surface and atmosphere is in balance at 102 Wm2.
iii) Energy absorbed by surface and atmosphere from space ( 67 + 168) is in balance with energy emitted by surface and atmosphere to space (165 + 30 + 40) which is 235 in each case.
For the fourth time I ask, what is wrong with that ?

Trick
April 13, 2014 6:48 am

gbaikie 12:57am: “I would say it seems a characteristic of such photons is they are not aimed in any sense of the word- as go in random directions.”
I would too. So in gbaikie view what happens to the un-reflected terrestrial photons randomly striking the earth L&O surface if not annihilated as gbaikie writes above?
******
Dave 2:25am: “..itty-bit of energy..” Lives on to fight another day. Next battle?

Bart
April 13, 2014 9:25 am

joeldshore says:
April 12, 2014 at 1:49 pm
“The only problem with your hypothesis is that it has no theoretical or empirical support.”
Actually, there is strong empirical support. The global temperature metric is almost completely specified as a steady trend since the LIA, with a ~60 year cycle superimposed. There is no evidence of any secular component induced by increasing CO2 at all.
There is, moreover, theoretical support of essentially nil surface-temperature-to-CO2-concentration sensitivity. CO2 is observed to obey a relationship of the form
dCO2/dt = k*(T – To)
Coupling these dynamics with a positive temperature sensitivity produces an unstable system, which would have rendered us Venus-like eons ago.
“Empirical support for your hypothesis would involve observing a much larger tropical tropospheric amplification (“hot spot”) than the models predict.”
Just the opposite. The radiators in the troposhpere are the point at which heat is released. That would be the point of minimal sensitivity.

Bart
April 13, 2014 9:52 am

Think of the radiator in your car. Your temperature gauge from there always reads 212 degF, no matter how hot the engine actually is. I won’t even bother to explain why, as I’m sure you are well aware of the reason.

gbaikie
April 13, 2014 11:30 am

— Trick says:
April 13, 2014 at 6:48 am
gbaikie 12:57am: “I would say it seems a characteristic of such photons is they are not aimed in any sense of the word- as go in random directions.”
I would too. So in gbaikie view what happens to the un-reflected terrestrial photons randomly striking the earth L&O surface if not annihilated as gbaikie writes above?–
Whatever is not reflected, scattered or re-radiated, then the energy of such photons is transferred to surface- total vibrational energy mass is increased and is maintained until such time as it’s convected, conducted or radiated into space. Or it warms the surface- delays the surface cooling.

gbaikie
April 13, 2014 1:05 pm

The greenhouse effect theory is an idea that only greenhouse gases cause a planet to retain heat. This is obviously wrong. The greenhouse effect theory is not significantly connected to an actual greenhouse or car park in the sun with windows rolled up. A greeenhouse can increase the day time air temperature in a greenhouse by preventing the convection of heated atmospheric gases. Have windows rolled down in a car and the air in the car does not become warmer than air outside the car.
Due to the power of sunlight the surface temperature [skin temperature] on Earth is limited. The skin temperature highest temperature is dependent type material of the surface. The highest land surfaces become is about 70 C [158 F]. Surfaces which become about 65 C or 150 F are common place during summer when the sun is near zenith and max strength of sun strikes the surface. If you can prevent the convection heat loss the surface can reach about 80 C- but one have better prevent convection heat loss than normal greenhouse or car with it’s windows rolled up.
And best way I know of to prevent such convection losses is with a solar pond- where temperature of 80 C or higher have been reported. And I would say that Earth is far more like a solar pond than something like a greenhouse.
Because water evaporate, ocean surfaces rarely get above 35 C. But solar pond surface also does exceed 35 C. Solar ponds work in terms of getting high temperature because they are fairly shallow water and they need to be saltwater- as the saltwater when warmed forms saline gradient which inhibits convention. So need saltwater and shallow water- ocean are missing the element of having shallow water, though there are shallow saltwater lakes which function like a solar pond- get higher temperature below the surface of the water.
So a solar pond is example of heat *not* rising. As guess, I would say it’s possible heat falls.
Though no doubt heat can’t get up, and saltier water is denser than fresher and less dense water above it.

April 13, 2014 9:11 pm

Having reviewed this entire thread I find that all the objections to my essay boil down to a simple refusal to accept that the adiabatic portion of convective overturning requires an energy source at the surface to maintain it.
For Earth, that energy source is 33K and that additional energy is not available for radiation to space because it is immediately taken up by adiabatic ascent as soon as it is supplied by adiabatic descent.
It is a product of atmospheric mass acquiring energy by conduction and it is entirely separate from atmospheric radiative capability.
The idea that one can maintain such a process without a surface temperature enhancement above that expected from the S-B equation is wholly unphysical and amounts to denial of the most basic principles of thermodynamics.
This is the truth of the matter:
i) The radiative exchange between surface and atmosphere is in balance at 222 Wm2.
ii) The adiabatic exchange between surface and atmosphere is in balance at 102 Wm2.
iii) Energy absorbed by surface and atmosphere from space ( 67 + 168) is in balance with energy emitted by surface and atmosphere to space (165 + 30 + 40) which is 235 in each case.
For the fourth time I ask, what is wrong with that ?
I have seen no coherent response to that proposition.

April 13, 2014 9:15 pm

I thought I’d lost my post of 4.58 since it took many hours to show up. Nor did I get the usual warning of a duplicated post when I tried again so there must have been a glitch of some sort in the system.

Frank
April 13, 2014 11:23 pm

Trick wrote: “Planck distribution (or Planck function) and Planck law mean the same thing AFAIK & is for all wavelengths across the spectrum;,S-B is its integral over an interval. There are whole text books on atm. radiation without even mentioning Schwarzschild eqn. (unless has another name) which as far as I can tell is for only one wavelength & no scattering which is far from fundamental. Maybe you have an online or text cite for what you really mean.”
The Schwarzschild eqn, like the Planck eqn, refers to a specific wavelength, but both can be numerically integrated over all wavelengths to produce a total flux. The Planck eqn has a definite integral, the S-B eqn; but we know that it doesn’t apply to general situations, which is why we have to introduce an emissivity term, usually after integration. Under normal circumstances, the emissivity <1 arises from scattering (which may be explicitly included in the Schwarzschild eqn), but I wonder if it also arises from wavelengths where n*o is effectively zero for the material in question. However, we usually don't apply "blackbody" or "greybody" concepts to objects which are transparent (which is what n*o = 0 implies), except for the atmosphere. When we do apply blackbody ideas to optically thick or thin slabs of atmosphere, I think we get very misleading models.
p205 of Grant Petty's "A First Course in Atmospheric Radiation" says: "The Schwarzschild eqn is the most fundamental description of radiative transfer in a non-scattering medium." Isn't blackbody radiation "radiation transfer" from one medium to another? The equation is often supplemented by terms that describe scattering into and away from the direction of interest (as Petty does on p322). I can't state definitively whether the "Schwarzschild eqn" encompasses or excludes such terms when needed (interfaces between two different media including small particles suspended in a medium), but it seems obvious that such terms should automatically be included when needed.
Basic physics textbooks present Coulomb's law for force between two charged particles and may defer mentioning or never mention that Coulomb's Law applies only to situations where the charges are not moving. Coulomb's Law follows from Maxwell's Equations under the condition that the charges are not moving, so many people eventually learn that Maxwell's equations are more fundamental. In his Lectures on Physics, Feynman chose to present Maxwell's eqns first, so that his audience would never forget which "laws" were fundamental and which are derived for and only applied to special circumstances. In Vol 1 Chapter 41, however, Feynman derives the Planck function for an "oscillator in thermal equilibrium" and never mentions what to do with a system that is not in equilibrium. "Schwarzschild" isn't found in the index to the Feynman Lectures and a google search for Schwarzschild and feynmanlectures.info (the Lectures now online) suggests the Schwarzschild equation isn't cited by name anywhere. Have I spotted a major flaw in how physics is taught? Unlike Steve WIlde, my conceit doesn't extend that far. I will say, however, that the first moment I saw the Schwarzschild equation, all MY confusion about how to blend absorption (heat trapping) and emission (radiative cooling) into a coherent picture disappeared, my understanding of why most solids and liquids emit blackbody radiation changed, and so did my understanding of emissivity and absorptivity. MY personal education was flawed because I didn't realize all derivations of Planck's Law assume equilibrium between media and radiation (which isn't generally true in our atmosphere) and because the Schwarzschild eqn IS rarely mentioned. Perhaps rgbatduke or some other professional physicist might be willing to comment.

david(swuk)
April 14, 2014 1:34 am

Steve asks (x4)
“For the fourth time I ask, what is wrong with that ?”
It puts too many Bod`s out of Biz.

phi
April 14, 2014 2:08 am

joeldshore (April 12, 2014 at 1:49 pm),
“The atmosphere is only unstable to convection when the lapse rate exceeds the adiabatic lapse rate.”
Yes but the phenomenon is not adiabatic, there are radiative losses throughout the entire column. Adding GHG tends to decrease these losses; the structure is changed.
“Empirical support for your hypothesis would involve observing a much larger tropical tropospheric amplification (“hot spot”) than the models predict.”
This may be the case: http://www.climatedialogue.org/the-missing-tropical-hot-spot/#comment-791

david(swuk)
April 14, 2014 2:23 am

Trick asked:-
“Next battle?”
next ?!

Trick
April 14, 2014 4:45 am

Stephen 9:11pm: “For the fourth time I ask, what is wrong with (222) ? I have seen no coherent response to that proposition.”
As already coherently pointed out, 222 Wm2 doesn’t allow for the observed processes of gliders and rain. Once those independent energy flux are added find 24+78+67+155 = 324 is correct energy flux for 1997 surface balance as all processes are measured & observed in top post cartoon not 324-24-78=222.

Trick
April 14, 2014 5:06 am

Frank 11:23pm: “..but we know that (Planck distribution) doesn’t apply to general situations.”
What general situation does Planck distribution not apply to?
The Schwarzschild Equation (SE) for the transmission of radiation of a particular frequency through an absorbing medium is built upon the Planck distribution foundation and Beer-Lambert law of light absorption, so Schwarzschild Equation is not fundamental law in and of itself. SE is just an equation.
SE needs constants which must be experimentally known – for the Earth from the HITRAN database. SE also suffers from having the atm. density as a constant which for the ever dwindling atm. is not fundamental – along with the ever changing atm. T(z). MODTRAN was developed to ~accurately solve SE w/all this atm. opacity input for the Earth system.
In contrast, the Planck distribution contains 3 fundamental (believed to be) unchanging constants of nature c, h, Kb for any general situation. Planck distribution is far more fundamental than SE developed solutions with constants just apply on Earth.

joeldshore
April 14, 2014 6:21 am

Bart says:

Actually, there is strong empirical support. The global temperature metric is almost completely specified as a steady trend since the LIA, with a ~60 year cycle superimposed. There is no evidence of any secular component induced by increasing CO2 at all.

Yes, Bart. We can fit the motion of the planets extremely well with epicycles too, but that doesn’t mean we should do this…and just replace a theoretical understanding by some empirical mumbo-jumbo about “recovery from the LIA” and “60 year cycles” that doesn’t tell us anything.

There is, moreover, theoretical support of essentially nil surface-temperature-to-CO2-concentration sensitivity. CO2 is observed to obey a relationship of the form
dCO2/dt = k*(T – To)
Coupling these dynamics with a positive temperature sensitivity produces an unstable system, which would have rendered us Venus-like eons ago.

No it doesn’t. And, even in the article that you wrote that you link to, you admit it although you desperately try to dismiss it: “There are other negative feedbacks, e.g., the T^4 radiation of heat. But, to maintain stability, these would have to be dominant, in which case the overall effect of CO2 on temperature would be negligible anyway.”
Of course, the T^4 radiative feedback is dominant. If it wasn’t, then we would indeed be in the Venus situation. The T^4 radiative feedback is so dominant that usually it is not even considered as a feedback, but as a zeroth-order effect, i.e., they calculate what the change in steady-state temperature would be including this effect but neglecting any other feedbacks and that is the ~1.1 K per CO2 doubling.
And, no, it being dominant does not make CO2 negligible anyway. It is not a binary, “Either it’s Venus or negligible” situation. It can and does mean that we expect a significant temperature change due to the significant changes in atmosphericCO2 concentration that we are producing.

“Empirical support for your hypothesis would involve observing a much larger tropical tropospheric amplification (“hot spot”) than the models predict.”
Just the opposite. The radiators in the troposhpere are the point at which heat is released. That would be the point of minimal sensitivity.

Think of the radiator in your car. Your temperature gauge from there always reads 212 degF, no matter how hot the engine actually is. I won’t even bother to explain why, as I’m sure you are well aware of the reason.

Bart: Do you understand that the only significant flow of energy at the top of the atmosphere (i.e., into or out of the atmosphere) is via radiation and that the amount of radiation emitted depends monotononically on the temperature? If you believe that convection is magically moving energy up to a height where it can escape to space, bypassing the greenhouse gases, then the evidence for this would be a significantly larger warming up there so that the amount the Earth system radiates could increase without the surface temperature significantly increasing.

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