Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
I haven’t commented much on my most recents posts, because of the usual reasons: a day job, and the unending lure of doing more research, my true passion. To be precise, recently I’ve been frying my synapses trying to twist my head around the implications of the finding that the global temperature forecasts of the climate models are mechanically and accurately predictable by a one-line equation. It’s a salutary warning: kids, don’t try climate science at home.
Figure 1. What happens when I twist my head too hard around climate models.
Three years ago, inspired by Lucia Liljegren’s ultra-simple climate model that she called “Lumpy”, and with the indispensable assistance of the math-fu of commenters Paul_K and Joe Born, I made what to me was a very surprising discovery. The GISSE climate model could be accurately replicated by a one-line equation. In other words, the global temperature output of the GISSE model is described almost exactly by a lagged linear transformation of the input to the models (the “forcings” in climatespeak, from the sun, volcanoes, CO2 and the like). The correlation between the actual GISSE model results and my emulation of those results is 0.98 … doesn’t get much better than that. Well, actually, you can do better than that, I found you can get 99+% correlation by noting that they’ve somehow decreased the effects of forcing due to volcanoes. But either way, it was to me a very surprising result. I never guessed that the output of the incredibly complex climate models would follow their inputs that slavishly.
Since then, Isaac Held has replicated the result using a third model, the CM2.1 climate model. I have gotten the CM2.1 forcings and data, and replicated his results. The same analysis has also been done on the GDFL model, with the same outcome. And I did the same analysis on the Forster data, which is an average of 19 model forcings and temperature outputs. That makes four individual models plus the average of 19 climate models, and all of the the results have been the same, so the surprising conclusion is inescapable—the climate model global average surface temperature results, individually or en masse, can be replicated with over 99% fidelity by a simple, one-line equation.
However, the result of my most recent “black box” type analysis of the climate models was even more surprising to me, and more far-reaching.
Here’s what happened. I built a spreadsheet, in order to make it simple to pull up various forcing and temperature datasets and calculate their properties. It uses “Solver” to iteratively select the values of tau (the time constant) and lambda (the sensitivity constant) to best fit the predicted outcome. After looking at a number of results, with widely varying sensitivities, I wondered what it was about the two datasets (model forcings, and model predicted temperatures) that determined the resulting sensitivity. I wondered if there were some simple relationship between the climate sensitivity, and the basic statistical properties of the two datasets (trends, standard deviations, ranges, and the like). I looked at the five forcing datasets that I have (GISSE, CCSM3, CM2.1, Forster, and Otto) along with the associated temperature results. To my total surprise, the correlation between the trend ratio (temperature dataset trend divided by forcing dataset trend) and the climate sensitivity (lambda) was 1.00. My jaw dropped. Perfect correlation? Say what? So I graphed the scatterplot.
Figure 2. Scatterplot showing the relationship of lambda and the ratio of the output trend over the input trend. Forster is the Forster 19-model average. Otto is the Forster input data as modified by Otto, including the addition of a 0.3 W/m2 trend over the length of the dataset. Because this analysis only uses radiative forcings and not ocean forcings, lambda is the transient climate response (TCR). If the data included ocean forcings, lambda would be the equilibrium climate sensitivity (ECS). Lambda is in degrees per W/m2 of forcing. To convert to degrees per doubling of CO2, multiply lambda by 3.7.
Dang, you don’t see that kind of correlation very often, R^2 = 1.00 to two decimal places … works for me.
Let me repeat the caveat that this is not talking about real world temperatures. This is another “black box” comparison of the model inputs (presumably sort-of-real-world “forcings” from the sun and volcanoes and aerosols and black carbon and the rest) and the model results. I’m trying to understand what the models do, not how they do it.
Now, I don’t have the ocean forcing data that was used by the models. But I do have Levitus ocean heat content data since 1950, poor as it might be. So I added that to each of the forcing datasets, to make new datasets that do include ocean data. As you might imagine, when some of the recent forcing goes into heating the ocean, the trend of the forcing dataset drops … and as we would expect, the trend ratio (and thus the climate sensitivity) increases. This effect is most pronounced where the forcing dataset has a smaller trend (CM2.1) and less visible at the other end of the scale (CCSM3). Figure 3 shows the same five datasets as in Figure 2, plus the same five datasets with the ocean forcings added. Note that when the forcing dataset contains the heat into/out of the ocean, lambda is the equilibrium climate sensitivity (ECS), and when the dataset is just radiative forcing alone, lambda is transient climate response. So the blue dots in Figure 3 are ECS, and the red dots are TCR. The average change (ECS/TCR) is 1.25, which fits with the estimate given in the Otto paper of ~ 1.3.
Figure 3. Red dots show the models as in Figure 2. Blue dots show the same models, with the addition of the Levitus heat content data to each forcing dataset. Resulting sensitivities are higher for the equilibrium condition than for the transient condition, as would be expected. Blue dots show equilibrium climate sensitivity (ECS), while red dots (as in Fig. 2) show the corresponding transient climate response (TCR).
Finally, I ran the five different forcing datasets, with and without ocean forcing, against three actual temperature datasets—HadCRUT4, BEST, and GISS LOTI. I took the data from all of those, and here are the results from the analysis of those 29 individual runs:
Figure 4. Large red and blue dots are as in Figure 3. The light blue dots are the result of running the forcings and subsets of the forcings, with and without ocean forcing, and with and without volcano forcing, against actual datasets. Error shown is one sigma.
So … my new finding is that the climate sensitivity of the models, both individual models and on average, is equal to the ratio of the trends of the forcing and the resulting temperatures. This is true whether or not the changes in ocean heat content are included in the calculation. It is true for both forcings vs model temperature results, as well as forcings run against actual temperature datasets. It is also true for subsets of the forcing, such as volcanoes alone, or for just GHG gases.
And not only did I find this relationship experimentally, by looking at the results of using the one-line equation on models and model results. I then found that can derive this relationship mathematically from the one-line equation (see Appendix D for details).
This is a clear confirmation of an observation first made by Kiehl in 2007, when he suggested an inverse relationship between forcing and sensitivity.
The question is: if climate models differ by a factor of 2 to 3 in their climate sensitivity, how can they all simulate the global temperature record with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Kerr [2007] and S. E. Schwartz et al. (Quantifying climate change–too rosy a picture?, available [here]) recently pointed out the importance of understanding the answer to this question. Indeed, Kerr [2007] referred to the present work, and the current paper provides the ‘‘widely circulated analysis’’ referred to by Kerr [2007]. This report investigates the most probable explanation for such an agreement. It uses published results from a wide variety of model simulations to understand this apparent paradox between model climate responses for the 20th century, but diverse climate model sensitivity.
However, Kiehl ascribed the variation in sensitivity to a difference in total forcing, rather than to the trend ratio, and as a result his graph of the results is much more scattered.
Figure 5. Kiehl results, comparing climate sensitivity (ECS) and total forcing. Note that unlike Kiehl, my results cover both equilibrium climate sensitivity (ECS) and transient climate response (TCR).
Anyhow, there’s a bunch more I could write about this finding, but I gotta just get this off my head and get back to my day job. A final comment.
Since I began this investigation, the commenter Paul_K has since written two outstanding posts on the subject over at Lucia’s marvelous blog, The Blackboard (Part 1, Part 2). In those posts, he proves mathematically that given what we know about the equation that replicates the climate models, that we cannot … well, I’ll let him tell it in his own words:
The Question: Can you or can you not estimate Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity (ECS) from 120 years of temperature and OHC data (even) if the forcings are known?
The Answer is: No. You cannot. Not unless other information is used to constrain the estimate.
An important corollary to this is:- The fact that a GCM can match temperature and heat data tells us nothing about the validity of that GCM’s estimate of Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity.
Note that this is not an opinion of Paul_K’s. It is a mathematical result of the fact that even if we use a more complex “two-box” model, we can’t constrain the sensitivity estimates. This is a stunning and largely unappreciated conclusion. The essential problem is that for any given climate model, we have more unknowns than we have fundamental equations to constrain them.
CONCLUSIONS
Well, it was obvious from my earlier work that the models were useless for either hindcasting or forecasting the climate. They function indistinguishably from a simple one-line equation.
On top of that, Paul_K has shown that they can’t tell us anything about the sensitivity, because the equation itself is poorly constrained.
Finally, in this work I’ve shown that the climate sensitivity “lambda” that the models do exhibit, whether it represents equilibrium climate sensitivity (ECS) or transient climate response (TCR), is nothing but the ratio of the trends of the input and the output. The choice of forcings, models and datasets is quite immaterial. All the models give the same result for lambda, and that result is the ratio of the trends of the forcing and the response. This most recent finding completely explains the inability of the modelers to narrow the range of possible climate sensitivities despite thirty years of modeling.
You can draw your own conclusions from that, I’m sure …
My regards to all,
w.
Appendix A : The One-Line Equation
The equation that Paul_K, Isaac Held, and I have used to replicate the climate models is as follows:
Let me break this into four chunks, separated by the equals sign and the plus signs, and translate each chunk from math into English. Equation 1 means:
This year’s temperature (T1) is equal to
Last years temperature (T0) plus
Climate sensitivity (λ) times this year’s forcing change (∆F1) times (one minus the lag factor) (1-a) plus
Last year’s temperature change (∆T0) times the same lag factor (a)
Or to put it another way, it looks like this:
T1 = <— This year’s temperature [ T1 ] equals
T0 + <— Last year’s temperature [ T0 ] plus
λ ∆F1 (1-a) + <— How much radiative forcing is applied this year [ ∆F1 (1-a) ], times climate sensitivity lambda ( λ ), plus
∆T0 a <— The remainder of the forcing, lagged out over time as specified by the lag factor “a”
The lag factor “a” is a function of the time constant “tau” ( τ ), and is given by
This factor “a” is just a constant number for a given calculation. For example, when the time constant “tau” is four years, the constant “a” is 0.78. Since 1 – a = 0.22, when tau is four years, about 22% of the incoming forcing is added immediately to last years temperature, and rest of the input pulse is expressed over time.
Appendix B: Physical Meaning
So what does all of that mean in the real world? The equation merely reflects that when you apply heat to something big, it takes a while for it to come up to temperature. For example, suppose we have a big brick in a domestic oven at say 200°C. Suppose further that we turn the oven heat up suddenly to 400° C for an hour, and then turn the oven back down to 200°C. What happens to the temperature of the big block of steel?
If we plot temperature against time, we see that initially the block of steel starts to heat fairly rapidly. However as time goes on it heats less and less per unit of time until eventually it reaches 400°C. Figure B2 shows this change of temperature with time, as simulated in my spreadsheet for a climate forcing of plus/minus one watt/square metre. Now, how big is the lag? Well, in part that depends on how big the brick is. The larger the brick, the longer the time lag will be. In the real planet, of course, the ocean plays the part of the brick, soaking up
The basic idea of the one-line equation is the same tired claim of the modelers. This is the claim that the changing temperature of the surface of the planet is linearly dependent on the size of the change in the forcing. I happen to think that this is only generally the rule, and that the temperature is actually set by the exceptions to the rule. The exceptions to this rule are the emergent phenomena of the climate—thunderstorms, El Niño/La Niña effects and the like. But I digress, let’s follow their claim for the sake of argument and see what their models have to say. It turns out that the results of the climate models can be described to 99% accuracy by the setting of two parameters—”tau”, or the time constant, and “lambda”, or the climate sensitivity. Lambda can represent either transient sensitivity, called TCR for “transient climate response”, or equilibrium sensitivity, called ECS for “equilibrium climate sensitivity”.
Figure B2. One-line equation applied to a square-wave pulse of forcing. In this example, the sensitivity “lambda” is set to unity (output amplitude equals the input amplitude), and the time constant “tau” is set at five years.
Note that the lagging does not change the amount of energy in the forcing pulse. It merely lags it, so that it doesn’t appear until a later date.
So that is all the one-line equation is doing. It simply applies the given forcing, using the climate sensitivity to determine the amount of the temperature change, and using the time constant “tau” to determine the lag of the temperature change. That’s it. That’s all.
The difference between ECS (climate sensitivity) and TCR (transient response) is whether slow heating and cooling of the ocean is taken into account in the calculations. If the slow heating and cooling of the ocean is taken into account, then lambda is equilibrium climate sensitivity. If the ocean doesn’t enter into the calculations, if the forcing is only the radiative forcing, then lambda is transient climate response.
Appendix C. The Spreadsheet
In order to be able to easily compare the various forcings and responses, I made myself up an Excel spreadsheet. It has a couple drop-down lists that let me select from various forcing datasets and various response datasets. Then I use the built-in Excel function “Solver” to iteratively calculate the best combination of the two parameters, sensitivity and time constant, so that the result matches the response. This makes it quite simple to experiment with various combinations of forcing and responses. You can see the difference, for example, between the GISS E model with and without volcanoes. It also has a button which automatically stores the current set of results in a dataset which is slowly expanding as I do more experiments.
In a previous post called Retroactive Volcanoes, (link) I had discussed the fact that Otto et al. had smoothed the Forster forcings dataset using a centered three point average. In addition they had added a trend fromthe beginning tothe end of the dataset of 0.3 W per square meter. In that post I had I had said that the effect of that was unknown, although it might be large. My new spreadsheet allows me to actually determine what the effect of that actually is.
It turns out that the effect of those two small changes is to take the indicated climate sensitivity from 2.8 degrees/doubling to 2.3° per doubling.
One of the strangest findings to come out of this spreadsheet was that when the climate models are compared each to their own results, the climate sensitivity is a simple linear function of the ratio of the trends of the forcing and the response. This was true of both the individual models, and the average of the 19 models studied by Forster. The relationship is extremely simple. The climate sensitivity lambda is 1.07 times the ratio of the trends for the models alone, and equal to the trends when compared to all the results. This is true for all of the models without adding in the ocean heat content data, and also all of the models including the ocean heat content data.
In any case I’m going to have to convert all this to the computer language R. Thanks to Stephen McIntyre, I learned the computer language R and have never regretted it. However, I still do much of my initial exploratory forays in Excel. I can make Excel do just about anything, so for quick and dirty analyses like the results above I use Excel.
So as an invitation to people to continue and expand this analysis, my spreadsheet is available here. Note that it contains a macro to record the data from a given analysis. At present it contains the following data sets:
IMPULSES
Pinatubo in 1900
Step Change
Pulse
FORCINGS
Forster No Volcano
Forster N/V-Ocean
Otto Forcing
Otto-Ocean ∆
Levitus watts Ocean Heat Content ∆
GISS Forcing
GISS-Ocean ∆
Forster Forcing
Forster-Ocean ∆
DVIS
CM2.1 Forcing
CM2.1-Ocean ∆
GISS No Volcano
GISS GHGs
GISS Ozone
GISS Strat_H20
GISS Solar
GISS Landuse
GISS Snow Albedo
GISS Volcano
GISS Black Carb
GISS Refl Aer
GISS Aer Indir Eff
RESPONSES
CCSM3 Model Temp
CM2.1 Model Temp
GISSE ModelE Temp
BEST Temp
Forster Model Temps
Forster Model Temps No Volc
Flat
GISS Temp
HadCRUT4
You can insert your own data as well or makeup combinations of any of the forcings. I’ve included a variety of forcings and responses. This one-line equation model has forcing datasets, subsets of those such as volcanoes only or aerosols only, and the simple impulses such as a square step.
Now, while this spreadsheet is by no means user-friendly, I’ve tried to make it at least not user-aggressive.
Appendix D: The Mathematical Derivation of the Relationship between Climate Sensitivity and the Trend Ratio.
I have stated that the relationship where climate sensitivity is equal to the ratio between trends of the forcing and response datasets.
We start with the one-line equation:
Let us consider the situation of a linear trend in the forcing, where the forcing is ramped up by a certain amount every year. Here are lagged results from that kind of forcing.
Figure B1. A steady increase in forcing over time (red line), along with the situation with the time constant (tau) equal to zero, and also a time constant of 20 years. The residual is offset -0.6 degrees for clarity.
Note that the only difference that tau (the lag time constant) makes is how long it takes to come to equilibrium. After that the results stabilize, with the same change each year in both the forcing and the temperature (∆F and ∆T). So let’s consider that equilibrium situation.
Subtracting T0 from both sides gives
Now, T1 minus T0 is simply ∆T1. But since at equilibrium all the annual temperature changes are the same, ∆T1 = ∆T0 = ∆T, and the same is true for the forcing. So equation 2 simplifies to
Dividing by ∆F gives us
Collecting terms, we get
And dividing through by (1-a) yields
Now, out in the equilibrium area on the right side of Figure B1, ∆T/∆F is the actual trend ratio. So we have shown that at equilibrium
But if we include the entire dataset, you’ll see from Figure B1 that the measured trend will be slightly less than the trend at equilibrium.
And as a result, we would expect to find that lambda is slightly larger than the actual trend ratio. And indeed, this is what we found for the models when compared to their own results, lambda = 1.07 times the trend ratio.
When the forcings are run against real datasets, however, it appears that the greater variability of the actual temperature datasets averages out the small effect of tau on the results, and on average we end up with the situation shown in Figure 4 above, where lambda is experimentally determined to be equal to the trend ratio.
Appendix E: The Underlying Math
The best explanation of the derivation of the math used in the spreadsheet is an appendix to Paul_K’s post here. Paul has contributed hugely to my analysis by correcting my mistakes as I revealed them, and has my great thanks.
Climate Modeling – Abstracting the Input Signal by Paul_K
I will start with the (linear) feedback equation applied to a single capacity system—essentially the mixed layer plus fast-connected capacity:
C dT/dt = F(t) – λ *T Equ. A1
Where:-
C is the heat capacity of the mixed layer plus fast-connected capacity (Watt-years.m-2.degK-1)
T is the change in temperature from time zero (degrees K)
T(k) is the change in temperature from time zero to the end of the kth year
t is time (years)
F(t) is the cumulative radiative and non-radiative flux “forcing” applied to the single capacity system (Watts.m-2)
λ is the first order feedback parameter (Watts.m-2.deg K-1)
We can solve Equ A1 using superposition. I am going to use timesteps of one year.
Let the forcing increment applicable to the jth year be defined as fj. We can therefore write
F(t=k ) = Fk = Σ fj for j = 1 to k Equ. A2
The temperature contribution from the forcing increment fj at the end of the kth
year is given by
ΔTj(t=k) = fj(1 – exp(-(k+1-j)/τ))/λ Equ.A3
where τ is set equal to C/λ .
By superposition, the total temperature change at time t=k is given by the summation of all such forcing increments. Thus
T(t=k) = Σ fj * (1 – exp(-(k+1-j)/τ))/ λ for j = 1 to k Equ.A4
Similarly, the total temperature change at time t= k-1 is given by
T(t=k-1) = Σ fj (1 – exp(-(k-j)/τ))/ λ for j = 1 to k-1 Equ.A5
Subtracting Equ. A4 from Equ. A5 we obtain:
T(k) – T(k-1) = fk*[1-exp(-1/τ)]/λ + ( [1 – exp(-1/τ)]/λ ) (Σfj*exp(-(k-j)/τ) for j = 1 to k-1) …Equ.A6
We note from Equ.A5 that
(Σfj*exp(-(k-j)/τ)/λ for j = 1 to k-1) = ( Σ(fj/λ ) for j = 1 to k-1) – T(k-1)
Making this substitution, Equ.A6 then becomes:
T(k) – T(k-1) = fk*[1-exp(-1/τ)]/λ + [1 – exp(-1/τ)]*[( Σ(fj/λ ) for j = 1 to k-1) – T(k-1)] …Equ.A7
If we now set α = 1-exp(-1/τ) and make use of Equ.A2, we can rewrite Equ A7 in the following simple form:
T(k) – T(k-1) = Fkα /λ – α * T(k-1) Equ.A8
Equ.A8 can be used for prediction of temperature from a known cumulative forcing series, or can be readily used to determine the cumulative forcing series from a known temperature dataset. From the cumulative forcing series, it is a trivial step to abstract the annual incremental forcing data by difference.
For the values of α and λ, I am going to use values which are conditioned to the same response sensitivity of temperature to flux changes as the GISS-ER Global Circulation Model (GCM).
These values are:-
α = 0.279563
λ = 2.94775
Shown below is a plot confirming that Equ. A8 with these values of alpha and lamda can reproduce the GISS-ER model results with good accuracy. The correlation is >0.99.

This same governing equation has been applied to at least two other GCMs ( CCSM3 and GFDL ) and, with similar parameter values, works equally well to emulate those model results. While changing the parameter values modifies slightly the values of the fluxes calculated from temperature , it does not significantly change the structural form of the input signal, and nor can it change the primary conclusion of this article, which is that the AGW signal cannot be reliably extracted from the temperature series.
Equally, substituting a more generalised non-linear form for Equ A1 does not change the results at all, provided that the parameters chosen for the non-linear form are selected to show the same sensitivity over the actual observed temperature range. (See here for proof.)





Willis Eschenbach – “It is neither expected nor is it intuitively obvious.”
I would disagree. Given Eqn. 1 and sufficient iterations under a constant ΔF (half a dozen or so with tau=4 years, after that additional changes due to ΔT(-n) approach zero), the last value goes to a constant summation of a decaying exponential, and ΔT1 becomes ΔT0:
T1 = T0 + λΔF(1-a) + ΔT0 * a
At that point the last term is just a constant, and the equation becomes:
ΔT1 = λΔF(1-a) + β
Dropping offsets and rearranging for changing terms:
ΔT/ΔF = λ(1-a)
With constant ΔF the asymptotic relationship of ΔT/ΔF to a changing λ is linear, the 1:1 correlation, as seen in the opening post. This is the case with _any_ exponential response to a change, one-box or N-box models – if the change continues at the same rate, the exponential decay factor(s) becomes a constant offset. QED.
Sir,
I loved your article. (saying that so i dont get flamed too badly.)
The real issue is that the GCM’s are stolen from the more generalized weather forcasting models. These models have many known issues, not the least of which they are typically accurate to 12 hours and take almost 6 hours to run on most supercomputers. They produce a 3D localized output that is put togther into a forecast. The farther out you look with them the more innacurate. At 120 hours they are ridiculously innaccurate, but at the 12 hour mark they are not bad. So “Climatologists” are using those to predict out to 100 years. One of the known weaknessess is they poorly predict temperature which makes this even more ridiculous. But my point is that the billions spent on computers and models is well spent money. Forcasters have saved many lives in the arena of tornado, Hurricane and Tsunami forcasting. Even if they do have a long way to go its important work.
What is ridiculous though is stealing forcasting computer time for AGW type work when it is blatantly obvious that the models are easily replicated with a simple equation for temperature work.
Barry,
“Are there any systematic differences between them? Does anyone out there know how the variation among simulations is generated? “
I’d expect some models are better than others. But I think you’re judging them on the performance over the last 15 years or so. On this scale, factors like ENSO are very important. Many models can show an ENSO oscillation, but the phase of the cycle is indeterminate. It is unpredictable in the real world too.
I think the models that look good on this short period are mostly those which by chance came up with a succession of La Nina’s.
“Lambda is in degrees per W/m2 of forcing. To convert to degrees per doubling of CO2, multiply lambda by 3.7.”
And here my stupid question after reading this post:
http://claesjohnson.blogspot.se/search/label/OLR
“Starting from the present level of 395 ppm Modtran predicts a global warming of 0.5 C from radiative forcing of 2 W/m2.”
As we are now at 395 ppm if we like it or not – should this not be rather used ?
Btw, very interesting to read the post on the weaknesses of the 3.7 W/m2 calculation at Claes Johnson’s blog.
What it seems to me is that non-climatologist and non-expert in modelling are agreeing with you, while modellist and climatologist are putting some keen criticism that is not answered at all.
Obviously the bulk of posts here belongs to the first capegory, but scientific accountability is something different than popularity rating.
Nick Stokes at 2:33 on 6/04 says:
“I’d expect some models are better than others… I think the models that look good on this short period are mostly those which by chance came up with a succession of La Ninas.”
Nick, thanks for the response. I can well appreciate that an ensemble comprising enough blind squirrels will stumble upon the occasional nut.
But can you explain how the variations among simulations are produced? Do they simply input different forcings, or is something else involved? Are there differences among models in the way the output is calculated (i.e., the same forcings inputted into different models produce different outputs)?
Barry Elledge says:
June 4, 2013 at 1:33 pm
Interestingly, though most of the 55 shown simulations project T increasing over time, a few show flat or falling Ts, closer to what has been observed. Now I don’t know how this variability among simulations is generated; perhaps they merely insert random variations of the forcings.
All digital software is wholly deterministic (barring faults). The only ways to produce variability in outputs is to vary the inputs, or insert quasi-random functions into the code.
The variability in model output is nothing more than the modellers estimate (conscious or unconscious) of natural variability (or unmodelled variability if you like).
To pretend climate model output variability has any more significance than this, is either ignorance or dishonesty.
MiCro says:
June 4, 2013 at 2:23 pm
Theo Goodwin says:
June 4, 2013 at 2:09 pm
“And GCM’s have more than there terms, but we’re also comparing the values for the entire surface of the Earth averaged to a single value, all of the effects of those terms are compressed to a single value.”
Compressed to a single value? Your metaphor lifts no weight, does no work. I am astonished that you think that you said something.
As Willis has pointed out, many people here are saying the result is an old one. Well, how about it? Come on and post the links or citations to where this result was made public.
Or, if you can’t find any then have the courtesy post to say that you were in error, that you have searched and searched, but it appears that this was not a result made public previously.
The reason this is important is because we are now all hanging off of the edge of our seats, waiting to see what transpires.
@ur momisugly Phitio
Apparently you believe “modellist[s] and climatologist[s]” have something to say worth listening to. Given that “modellist[s] and climatologist[s]” of AGW regularly traffic in lies and wild speculation, you might want to reconsider that view.
Further, while the Nick Stokes’s [a fine example of a “modellist and climatologist”] of the world post foolishness not worthy of dignifying with a response (except in the hopes of educating some poor brainwashed Cult of Climatology member… not likely to succeed, but worth a go), the fine scientists above who are (albeit pridefully blindly and or mistakenly in some cases) debating Eschenbach are by no stretch of a Fantasy Science imagination “modellist[s] and climatologist[s].”
And Eschenbach (and others above) have soundly answered their concerns.
You sound a little confused. Try following the above thread in its entirety. I have a feeling that will help you immensely.
Barry,
A climate model solves differential equations. It can tell you how things will change, providing you tell it the starting point. In principle, that means every bit of air, its temp and velocity, etc. Of course that’s impossible.
What is normally done is to take a known state in the past, define the state as best can (with lots of interpolation) and let it run for a wind-up period. After a while, initial perturbations settle, and you get realistic weather, but not weather you could have predicted.
Of course, model differences have an effect as well, and there are different forcing scenarios etc.
The thing is, they are climate models. They model the climate by creating weather, but do not claim to predict weather. They are good for longer term averages.
Adam: As Willis has pointed out, many people here are saying the result is an old one.
Who has said it was old? All anyone has said is that it’s simply derivable once Willis’ assumptions are clearly expressed.
Nick Stokes: They are good for longer term averages.
That is the hope. It has not been demonstrated yet to be true.
Lol,
Actually Climate models are designed to predict weather. That is where they came from and what they are used for. They dont due well beyond a short timespan, or for predicting things related to heat energy such as temperature. Making a model of the climate bigger only makes it less accurate, ie the entire globe for 100 years.
David,
Do you have an example of climate models being used for predicting weather? As in someone like the IPCC saying what some future weather will be. I think you’ll find they talk in decadal averages at a minimum.
Nick,
Yes, the GFDL is used in hurricane forcasting. Originally came into being in the late 60’s for that purpose. most of the big complicated models IPCC uses/talks about are some modification or bounded version.
Nick Stokes says:
June 4, 2013 at 4:35 pm
David,
Do you have an example of climate models being used for predicting weather? As in someone like the IPCC saying what some future weather will be. I think you’ll find they talk in decadal averages at a minimum.
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They should switch to yearly averages. At least then they would have a prayer of being correct in extreme years. As it is they are always wrong.
Actually, I rushed the math in my previous comment a bit – let’s look at it without dropping any constants.
Equation 1: T1 = T0 + λΔF(1-a) + ΔT0 * a
Over time, ΔT0 will go to a constant as per exponential decay. If ΔF = 0 after some period, (say, after a step change), ΔT0 will asymptotically approach zero as the the lagged change expires. If ΔF remains a constant, ΔT0 will asymptotically approach a constant change per time step, as each successive change to ΔT(n) will be smaller.
As ΔT0 goes to a constant ΔT:
T1 = T0 + λΔF(1-a) + ΔT * a
T1 – T0 = λΔF(1-a) + ΔT * a
ΔT = λΔF(1-a) + ΔT * a
ΔT(1-a) = λΔF(1-a)
Therefore ΔT/ΔF = λ : QED… and that’s the form of the equation all the fuss is about.
I hope that is sufficiently clear – the relationship Willis Eschenbach is focusing upon is inherent in his model, in all such lagged models for that matter, and in the regression to the mean found in exponential decay equations. After transients have settled out, and second derivatives have gone to zero, such models will asymptotically go to a linear relationship. This is unsurprising if you are familiar with such equations, and should be apparent from the calculus.
Philip Bradley at 3:19 pm on 6/04 says:
“All digital software is wholly deterministic (barring faults). The only way to produce variability in outputs is to vary the inputs, or insert quasi-randomness into the codes.”
Philip, I quite believe you. The problem is I don’t know which it is: inserting variable forcings or perhaps variable response functions, or inserting quasi-random variables of some other sort. Another possibility is that different types of models treat the inputs somewhat differently (even though all models appear to share the same basic assumptions).
Do you know how the randomness is actually generated? If so please enlighten me.
Thanks.
I too initially thought Willis’ observation was trivially obviousl: if you wait until the exponential has settled, what is left _has to be_ the linear response to forcing that you added the exponential response to to get the model. It’s like saying 4-2=2 .
However, what is significant is that the models are settling to this value despite all the variable inputs and erratic volcanoes etc. What this points out is that despite the emense complexity of the models and the inputs, what we are seeing in the model otput is the same as linearly increasing CO2 “forcing” plus random noise that averages out.
What Willis’ observation shows is, that despite all the varaible inputs : volacanoes, aerosols, CFcs, black soot, NO, O3 etc etc,. the long term, net result produced by the models is that all this pales into insignificance and climate is dominated by a linearly rising CO2 “forcing”. The exponentials never die out in model runs because there are always changes, but they _average_ out, leaving the same thing.
This is the modellers’ preconceived understanding that they have built into the models themselves and adjusted with the “parametrised” inputs : that climate is nothing but a constantly increasing CO2 forcing + noise.
And that is where they are wrong and that is why they have failed to work since 2000 AD.
So Willis’ observation that, if you effectively take out the exponential decays by imposing a condition of constant deltaF , you get back to lambda that you started with, is trivial in that sense. What can be claimed as a “finding” is that this condition corresponds to what the model runs produce. And that is not trivial. The models do net neccesarily have to produce a result that conforms to the constant deltaF condition that Willis imposed, but they do.
Their projections will, because that’s all they have, but hindcasts have supposedly “real” inputs that are not random.
So what 30 years of modelling has told us is that climate is NOT well represented by constantly increasing CO2 + noise.
Now negative results are traditionally under-reported in scientific literature , this is known to happen in all fields of science but sometimes negative result tells you as much or more than a positive one. And this is a very important NEGATIVE result.
It has cost a lot of time, money and effort to get there but I think we have a result finally. And one that the IPCC can not refuse because it comes from the models on which they have chosen to base conclusions and their advice to “policy makers”.
So lets repeat it: climate is NOT well represented by constantly increasing CO2 + noise.
That last sentence should read: climate is NOT well represented by constantly increasing CO2 forcing + noise.
That’s the take home message for policy makers.
Nick Stokes at 4:11 pm on June 4 says:
“What is normally done is to take a known state in the past, define the state as best can (with lots of interpolation) and let it run for a windup period.After a while, initial perturbations settle, and you get realistic weather, but not weather you could have predicted.”
Nick, I’m trying to understand how this is used in practice, e.g.to generate the 55 simulations which were used to produce the AR4 model projection. How are 55 different simulations produced? Are these merely different inputted values of the forcings? If so, how do they generate the range of values for the forcings?
Or is something else being varied besides the forcings?
To me these sound like pretty straightforward questions which ought to have straightforward answers. I’m not trying to be difficult here; I just want to understand what’s going on behind that curtain.
If you can get me a straight answer I will be grateful.
The way the models are randomized is by inputing the current weather which is constantly changing. They are designed to reproduce the same output with the same input but the input is incredably complex, hence the need for super computers. All the models share a lot of the same inputs, at least the ones that are easiest to measure such as barometric pressure gradients and humidity. Others add in things like ocean temps from various layers, gravitational effects and various tempuratures within the different levels of the atmosphere. The complexity comes from the habbit of creating grids or cubes of weather and having them all interact under certain rules with each other creating an output that contains the varios changes from interactions. This output can be further averaged and or weighted for consumer use (what the folks do looking out beyond 120 hours). Also the models are all in the “development phase” so they are prone to frequent programming adjustments so todays output with yesterdays input will not match due to changes in the way the model behaves. Despite this fact they are still very useful for predicting the short term weather. There is a reason why most of your weather forcasters (all with at least a bachelors degree) dont buy into AGW.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/05/26/new-el-nino-causal-pattern-discovered/
See my comments there for evidence of lunar influence that Stueker et al published but failed to spot. I’m trying to write this up as a more coherent whole at the moment.
Some climate models are apparently able to produce some “ENSO-like” variability but they’re still trying to make it part of the random noise paradigm. Once they link it to the 4.431 year lunar influence in the tropics we may see the first glimmer of a realistic variability.
The 4.43 gets split into 3.7 and 5.4 year cycles and that is the origin of the “variable” 3-to-5 year periodicity in El Nino and ENSO.
KR,
I think your algebra is the same as Willis’ in Appendix D. Willis is emphasising the ratio of trends, which isn’t quite the same.