
This press release was provided by Sandia National Labs:
In an effort to shed light on the wide spectrum of thought regarding the causes and extent of changes in Earth’s climate, Sandia National Laboratories has invited experts from a wide variety of perspectives to present their views in the Climate Change and National Security Speaker Series.
Predictions by climate models are flawed, says invited speaker at Sandia
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor Richard Lindzen, a global warming skeptic, told about 70 Sandia researchers in June that too much is being made of climate change by researchers seeking government funding. He said their data and their methods did not support their claims.
“Despite concerns over the last decades with the greenhouse process, they oversimplify the effect,” he said. “Simply cranking up CO2 [carbon dioxide] (as the culprit) is not the answer” to what causes climate change.
Lindzen, the ninth speaker in Sandia’s Climate Change and National Security Speaker Series, is Alfred P. Sloan professor of meteorology in MIT’s department of earth, atmospheric and planetary sciences. He has published more than 200 scientific papers and is the lead author of Chapter 7 (“Physical Climate Processes and Feedbacks”) of the International Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Third Assessment Report. He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences and a fellow of the American Geophysical Union and the American Meteorological Society.
For 30 years, climate scientists have been “locked into a simple-minded identification of climate with greenhouse-gas level. … That climate should be the function of a single parameter (like CO2) has always seemed implausible. Yet an obsessive focus on such an obvious oversimplification has likely set back progress by decades,” Lindzen said.
For major climates of the past, other factors were more important than carbon dioxide. Orbital variations have been shown to quantitatively account for the cycles of glaciations of the past 700,000 years, he said, and the elimination of the arctic inversion, when the polar caps were ice-free, “is likely to have been more important than CO2 for the warm episode during the Eocene 50 million years ago.”
There is little evidence that changes in climate are producing extreme weather events, he said. “Even the IPCC says there is little if any evidence of this. In fact, there are important physical reasons for doubting such anticipations.”
Lindzen’s views run counter to those of almost all major professional societies. For example, the American Physical Society statement of Nov. 18, 2007, read, “The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring.” But he doesn’t feel they are necessarily right. “Why did the American Physical Society take a position?” he asked his audience. “Why did they find it compelling? They never answered.”
Speaking methodically with flashes of humor — “I always feel that when the conversation turns to weather, people are bored.” — he said a basic problem with current computer climate models that show disastrous increases in temperature is that relatively small increases in atmospheric gases lead to large changes in temperatures in the models.
But, he said, “predictions based on high (climate) sensitivity ran well ahead of observations.”
Real-world observations do not support IPCC models, he said: “We’ve already seen almost the equivalent of a doubling of CO2 (in radiative forcing) and that has produced very little warming.”
He disparaged proving the worth of models by applying their criteria to the prediction of past climatic events, saying, “The models are no more valuable than answering a test when you have the questions in advance.”
Modelers, he said, merely have used aerosols as a kind of fudge factor to make their models come out right. (Aerosols are tiny particles that reflect sunlight. They are put in the air by industrial or volcanic processes and are considered a possible cause of temperature change at Earth’s surface.)
Then there is the practical question of what can be done about temperature increases even if they are occurring, he said. “China, India, Korea are not going to go along with IPCC recommendations, so … the only countries punished will be those who go along with the recommendations.”
He discounted mainstream opinion that climate change could hurt national security, saying that “historically there is little evidence of natural disasters leading to war, but economic conditions have proven much more serious. Almost all proposed mitigation policies lead to reduced energy availability and higher energy costs. All studies of human benefit and national security perspectives show that increased energy is important.”
He showed a graph that demonstrated that more energy consumption leads to higher literacy rate, lower infant mortality and a lower number of children per woman.
Given that proposed policies are unlikely to significantly influence climate and that lower energy availability could be considered a significant threat to national security, to continue with a mitigation policy that reduces available energy “would, at the least, appear to be irresponsible,” he argued.
Responding to audience questions about rising temperatures, he said a 0.8 of a degree C change in temperature in 150 years is a small change. Questioned about five-, seven-, and 17-year averages that seem to show that Earth’s surface temperature is rising, he said temperatures are always fluctuating by tenths of a degree.
As for the future, “Uncertainty plays a huge role in this issue,” Lindzen said. “It’s not that we expect disaster, it’s that the uncertainty is said to offer the possibility of disaster: implausible, but high consequence. Somewhere it has to be like the possible asteroid impact: Live with it.”
To a sympathetic questioner who said, “You are like a voice crying in the wilderness. It must be hard to get published,” Lindzen said, adding that billions of dollars go into funding climate studies. “The reward for solving problems is that your funding gets cut. It’s not a good incentive structure.”
Asked whether the prudent approach to possible climate change would be to prepare a gradated series of responses, much as insurance companies do when they insure cars or houses, Lindzen did not shift from his position that no actions are needed until more data is gathered.
When another Sandia employee pointed out the large number of models by researchers around the globe that suggest increases in world temperature, Lindzen said he doubted the models were independently derived but rather might produce common results because of their common origins.
The Climate Security lecture series is funded by Sandia’s Energy, Climate and Infrastructure Security division. Rob Leland is director of Sandia’s Climate Security Program.
Sandia National Laboratories is a multi-program laboratory operated by Sandia Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lockheed Martin company, for the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Nuclear Security Administration. With main facilities in Albuquerque, N.M., and Livermore, Calif., Sandia has major R&D responsibilities in national security, energy and environmental technologies and economic competitiveness.
h/t to Marc Marano
HenryP says:
July 29, 2012 at 10:53 am
What did I tell you? They already have a story ready when you and all are going to feel the cold. It is going to be AGD or AGC due to AGD.
And they’ve already started pushing it, too:
http://www.globalissues.org/article/529/global-dimming
Problem with that statement is that — it’s a lie. Climatologists know perfectly well that the Sahel has been undergoing cyclical, decades-long droughts *every* 30-to-60 years for at least the past 3,000 years.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16967-africa-trapped-in-megadrought-cycle.html
KR wrote:
…The articles I listed discuss Linzen’s various arguments for low climate sensitivity, including the recent Lindzen and Choi 2011 paper (a repeat of the errors in LC09). His arguments in this regard are thoroughly dismissed….
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Of the 14 papers you cite, only one of them is even published in the same year as Lindzen & Choi 2011. And some of these papers are over a decade old. For someone to assert that these old papers “thoroughly dismiss” a later paper that did not exist at the time, sounds rather far fetched to me. KR, obviously you are very very passionate in your beliefs on this topic, but I am really struggling to find rational content in the claims you are putting forward. Hence my questioning of some of your crank-like responses here…
Will Nitschke – My apologies, I may have assumed more background knowledge in this particular topic than is reasonable.
In Lindzen, Chou, and Hou 2001 (http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0477%282001%29082%3C0417%3ADTEHAA%3E2.3.CO%3B2) Lindzen introduced the idea of an “adaptive iris” negative feedback from the tropics, using that to support his claims of low climate sensitivity. This was found to not be supportable, and Lindzen himself has stated that the “Iris” does not hold up under the data.
Lindzen and Choi 2009 (http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2009GL039628.shtml) used a different satellite (ERBE) and some very oddly chosen time periods to claim a low climate sensitivity. Issues with this include rather curious statistical approaches and clouds driving the ENSO cycle, as seen in his comparing cloud changes to shortwave and longwave radiative changes months later. Multiple papers pointed out the issues, including the use of tropical _only_ data, when extratropical circulation involves 10x the energy that Lindzen considered, and global analysis with the _same_ methods indicates sensitivities consistent with IPCC numbers.
Lindzen and Choi 2011 (http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2009GL039628.shtml), published in a rather peripheral journal, is simply a rehash of LC09. And it fails to address the majority of issues raised WRT LC09 – overall an insufficient response to the many criticisms rightly brought up in that regard. In particular, he still has clouds driving temperatures months later, when clouds and humidity respond to temperature in a matter of days. There’s a fairly clear discussion of the issues, wherein I have commented, here: http://www.skepticalscience.com/lindzen-choi-2011-party-like-2009.html
So – all of those papers I listed reveal issues with Lindzen’s low sensitivity claims, the basis of his <0.5C/doubling sensitivity claims. Over and over and over, his claims in this regard have been thoroughly debunked. Hence their relevance to this discussion.
—
Have you read Rahmstorf 2008 (http://www.pik-potsdam.de/~stefan/Publications/Book_chapters/Rahmstorf_Zedillo_2008.pdf) yet? If you wish to weigh in on that, or on actual issues with the math on climate sensitivity, then (and only then) might we have more to discuss…
KR you’ve done nothing but post a bunch of irrelevant links. We are not even discussing Lindzen and Choi 2011. We are talking about *your* climate sensitivity claims and peer reviewed support for them. I’m an old school sceptic, not “just” a climate sceptic. When I’ve debated Creationists in the past it’s a common tactic for them to give you a dozen links to ‘research’ that turns out to be garbage and/or not relevant to the original claim the Creationist is making. I’m sorry, but you seem to be apply the same tactic, just on a different topic.
Will Nitschke says:
July 29, 2012 at 11:10 pm
KR you’ve done nothing but post a bunch of irrelevant links. We are not even discussing Lindzen and Choi 2011. We are talking about *your* climate sensitivity claims and peer reviewed support for them.
“When your argument has become unsupportable, change the subject…”
And BTW KR, you are still engaging in the habit of citing a paper in the literature, and then adding your opinion as to why that paper is ‘garbage’ usually without any supportive citation… (It’s not clear what qualifications you have to make such authoritative pronouncements or even who you may be.) The only citation I found in your last posting was to a hobbyist blog… I don’t know if you’re a crank or not, but an awful lot of red flags are waving right now…
HenryP says: July 29, 2012 at 8:46 am
Thank you Henry, I did look at your tables and found them very interesting, at
http://www.letterdash.com/henryp/global-cooling-is-here
I no longer have the time to delve into the data the way I used to. You mention parabolas and plots – have you posted them?
I did post a note on icecap.us in Sept 2008 entitled “is This the Beginning of Global Cooling?”. Since then, Lower Tropospheric temperatures have bounced back from the sharp cooling evident at that time.
It seems obvious to me that natural variability is has a much greater impact than CO2 on global temperatures – just looking at the natural variation in the monthly average satellite and surface temperature data tells the story.
I have primarily used satellite temperatures in my analyses, since surface temperatures have been subjected to much chicanery – too many “adjustments” and really poor siting in increasingly urbanized areas – see Anthony’s latest (29July2012) announcement and previous surfacestations work.
Are you sure your surface temperatures are “raw” data , unadjusted by CRU, GISS or others?
I previously calculated a warming bias in HadCrut3 Surface Temperature Data of ~0.07C per decade for the past 3 decades.
Anyway, I hope you continue your efforts – climate science is a lot of fun. The politics… not so much.
Will Nitschke – I see you have still not:
(a) offered _any_ opinions on the math I presented earlier in the thread, demonstrating that Lindzens claim of a doubling of forcing and insufficient warming was wholly invalid – you haven’t discussed the sensitivity issue whatsoever, or
(b) read either the Rahmstorf 2008 (http://www.pik-potsdam.de/~stefan/Publications/Book_chapters/Rahmstorf_Zedillo_2008.pdf) chapter which directly discusses this invalid claim of Lindzens, or any of the multiple papers critiquing Lindzen’s low sensitivity arguments. Note that Lindzen has been making this invalid claim since about 2002, and has been corrected multiple times (see the references I suggested) to no effect.
You have demanded arguments from authority, you have apparently not read any of the references I’ve pointed you to, you haven’t discussed any of the data – you have simply complained.
At this time I see reason to indulge you any more.
KR:
With respect, you are writing KRap.
Nobody wants to waste time on your ridiculous meanderings.
Allan MaRae says
Are you sure your surface temperatures are “raw” data , unadjusted by CRU, GISS or others?
I no longer have the time to delve into the data the way I used to. You mention parabolas and plots – have you posted them?
Henry says
Thanks for your comment. It does not matter to me wether they adjusted some stations, as long as they kept making the same adjustment. At each station I simply looked at the average change from the average measured over the periods indicated. It is an elegant way to sidestep those problems. This way I am also less dependant on calibration.
Of all the data presented I think the unadjusted Hadcrut 3 is the best from about 1935. Before that, and much of the rest, I don’t trust much of any of it. Of the current satellite data, I have been asking and trying to get some answers as to accuracy and precision (to present them as “global” ) and how and how often is calibrated. I got no answers. Remember that here we are looking at absolute data: results. As they are presented without error bars I don’t know how good they are and how they are being manipulated. In this way we are perhaps a bit opposite: I trust the surface stations more than I trust the satellite data.
It is interesting to note that Anthony’s 0.15 C per decade since 1979 is similar to my own (global) result of 0.014 C per annum since 1980 (see Means table). I wonder what his result would be when taken from 2000? (it seems his records only go to 2008. 8 years is too small to take a trend. You need at least 11 or 12 to enclose at least one suncycle) . I think I heard somewhere that somebody in the USA also had picked up on an overall cooling trend in the USA since 2000.
I will show the plot and put it up on the internet. It is a good idea. As I said, the global warming followed a parabolic curve (binominal). Now that it is turned into global cooling I am going to assume that at zero (i.e when there was no cooling and no warming) it turned hyperbolic with exactly the same coefficients but different signs. It would look like a sinus wave.
You agree? Anyone else here have any ideas on that for me?
(The alternative, if the temperature keeps falling parabolic, on its current path, could be that by 2045 we fall a lot deeper than the (hunger) winter of 1944….)
Hi Henry,
Re your questions on satellite data, I suggest you ask brief questions of Roy Spencer or John Christy directly. I don’t want to release either email address here, but suggest you could probably locate them through Roy’s website or UAH.
Or see
http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/
Or data at
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc.lt
I think the satellite temperature are pretty good, far better than the surface temperatures. Much nonsense was made years ago of minor discrepancies between UAH and RSS analyses of the same satellite data – those issues were not material, in my opinion, but have now been further resolved.
You can see the apparent global warming bias in the Hadcrut3 Surface Temperature (ST) versus the Lower Troposphere (LT) in Figure 1 at
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/CO2vsTMacRae.pdf
I estimate this Hadcrut3 ST warming bias to be about 0.07C per decade.
Best, Allan
There is a discussion of Lindzen’s speech, including an analysis of his “doubling” and “not enough warming” claims, over at http://www.skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=1554
Minor error on my part – apparently Lindzen has been making the same claims, with the same errors of neglecting non-GHG forcings and ocean thermal inertia, since 1989; I was only aware of them since 2002. I stand corrected in that regard.