Guest post by Alec Rawls
“Expert review” of the First Order Draft of AR5 closed on the 10th. Here is the first paragraph of my submitted critique:
My training is in economics where we are very familiar with what statisticians call “the omitted variable problem” (or when it is intentional, “omitted variable fraud”). Whenever an explanatory variable is omitted from a statistical analysis, its explanatory power gets misattributed to any correlated variables that are included. This problem is manifest at the very highest level of AR5, and is built into each step of its analysis.
Like everyone else who participated in this review, I agreed not to cite, quote or distribute the draft. The IPCC also made a further request, which reviewers were not required to agree to, that we “not discuss the contents of the FOD in public fora such as blogs.”
Given what I found—systematic fraud—it would not be moral to honor this un-agreed to request, and because my comments are about what is omitted, the fraud is easy enough to expose without quoting the draft. My entire review (4700 words) only contains a half dozen quotes, which can easily be replaced here with descriptions of the quoted material. Cited section numbers are also easy to replace with descriptions of the subjects addressed. And so with Anthony’s permission, here is the rest of my minimally altered review:
Introduction to the “omitted variable fraud” critique, continued
For the 1750-2010 period examined, two variables correlate strongly with the observed warming (and hence with each other). Solar magnetic activity and atmospheric CO2 were both trending upwards over the period, and both stepped up to much higher levels over the second half of the 20th century. These two correlations with temperature change give rise to the two main competing theories of 20th century warming. Was it driven by rapidly increasing human release of CO2, or by the 80 year “grand maximum” of solar activity that began in the early 1920’s? (“Grand minima and maxima of solar activity: new observational constraints,” Usoskin et al. 2007.)
The empirical evidence in favor of the solar explanation is overwhelming. Dozens of peer-reviewed studies have found a very high degree of correlation (.5 to .8) between solar-magnetic activity and global temperature going back many thousands of years (Bond 2001, Neff 2001, Shaviv 2003, Usoskin 2005, and many others listed below). In other words, solar activity “explains,” in the statistical sense, 50 to 80% of past temperature change.
Such a high degree of correlation over such long time periods implies causality, which can only go one way. Global temperature cannot be driving solar activity, so there must be some mechanism by which solar activity is driving or modulating global temperature change. The high degree of correlation also suggests that solar activity is the primary driver of global temperature on every time scale studied (which is pretty much every time scale but the Milankovitch cycle).
In contrast, records of CO2 and temperature reveal no discernable warming effect of CO2. There is a correlation between atmospheric CO2 and temperature, but with CO2 changes following temperature changes by an average of about 800 years (Caillon 2003), indicating that it is temperature change that is driving atmospheric CO2 change (as it should, since warming oceans are able to hold less CO2). This does not rule out the possibility that CO2 also drives temperature, and in theory a doubling of CO2 should cause about a 1 degree increase in temperature before any feedback effects are accounted, but feedbacks could be negative (dampening rather than amplifying temperature forcings), so there no reason, just from what we know about the greenhouse mechanism, that CO2 has to be a significant player. The one thing we can say is that whatever the warming effect of CO2, it is not detectable in the raw CO2 vs. temperature data.
This is in glaring contrast to solar activity, which lights up like a neon sign in the raw data. Literally dozens of studies finding .5 to .8 degrees of correlation with temperature. So how is it that the IPCC’s current generation of general circulation models start with the assumption that CO2 has done 40 times as much to warm the planet as solar activity since 1750? This is the ratio of AR5’s radiative forcing estimates for variation in CO2 and variation in total solar effects between 1750 and 2010, as listed in [the table of RF estimates in the chapter on human and natural temperature forcing factors]. RF for CO2 is entered as ___ W/m^2 while RF for total solar effects is entered as ___ W/m^2. [I’m not going to quote the actual numbers, but yeah, the ratio is an astounding 40 to 1, up from 14 to 1 in AR4, which listed total solar forcing as 0.12 W/m^2, vs. 1.66 for CO2.]
So the 50% driver of global temperature according to mountains of temperature correlation data is assumed to have 1/40th the warming effect of something whose warming effect is not even discernable in the temperature record. This is on the input side of the GCM’s. The models aren’t using gigaflops of computing power to find that CO2 has that much larger a warming effect. The warming ratio is fixed at the outset. Garbage in, garbage out.
The “how” is very simple. The 40 times greater warming effect of CO2 is achieved by blatant omitted variable fraud. As I will fully document, all of the evidence for a strong solar magnetic driver of climate is simply left out of AR5. Of the many careful empirical studies that show a high correlation between solar activity and climate, only three papers are obliquely referenced in a single sentence of the entire First Order Draft. On [page___, line ____ of the chapter on aerosols and clouds] there is a bare reference to three papers that found unspecified correlations to some climate variables, with no mention of the dramatic magnitude of the correlations, or the scope and repetition of the findings. And that’s it. Not a single other mention in the entire report. A person reading AR5 from cover to cover would come away with not even a hint that for more than ten years a veritable flood of studies have been finding solar activity to explain something on the order of half of all past temperature variation. The omission is virtually complete.
As a result, AR5 misattributes virtually all of the explanatory power of solar-magnetic activity to the correlated CO2 variable. This misattribution can be found both in AR5’s analytical discussions and in its statistical estimations and projections, and the error could not be more consequential. If it is solar-magnetic activity that drives climate then the sun’s recent descent into a state of profound quiescence portends imminent global cooling, possibly rapid and severe, and unlike warming, cooling is actually dangerous and really can feed back on itself in runaway fashion.
Nothing could be more perverse in such a circumstance than to unplug the modern world in a misbegotten jihad against CO2. The IPCC’s omitted variable fraud must stop. AR5’s misattribution of 20th century warming to CO2 must stop. The evidence overwhelmingly supports the solar-magnetic warming theory. The only support for the CO2 theory is the fact that models built on it can achieve a reasonable fit to the last couple centuries of temperature history, but that is only because CO2 is roughly correlated with solar activity over this period, while these models themselves are invalidated by their demonstrable omitted variable fraud. If warming is attributed to solar-magnetic effects at all in accordance with the evidence then the warming that is left to attribute to CO2 becomes utterly benign.
With natural temperature variation almost certainly both substantially larger than CO2 effects, and headed in the cooling direction, the expected external value of CO2 is unambiguously positive. If anything, we should subsidizing and promoting increases in atmospheric CO2, exactly the opposite of the draft report’s opening claim that developments since AR4 “… [summary conclusion about scientists supposedly being more sure than ever (thanks to the absence of any 21st century warming?) that the effects of human activity are the primary climate concern].”
As someone who recognizes the scientific errors in this disastrous report, I can at least make sure that the issue is put properly before the authors of AR5. Thus I am documenting as concisely as possible the solar-magnetic omission and the errors it leads to. The discussion is substantial but I have kept it well under the character limit for a single comment. This comment is being submitted as a top-level comment on AR5 as a whole, and it is being submitted unaltered as a comment on three different sub-chapter headings where the omitted solar-magnetic evidence ought to be taken into account: ____, ____, ____ [a subheading in the paleo-data chapter, a subheading in the chapter on clouds and aerosols, and a subheading in the radiative forcing chapter].
A sample of the omitted evidence
Listed below are a few of the most prominent and compelling studies that have found a strong correlations between solar activity and climate, together with a semi-random collection of similar findings, totaling two dozen citations all together. It would be easy to list two dozen more, but the purpose here is just to show a sample of the omitted evidence, in order to document up-front the existence and validity of it. Included are brief descriptions of the findings for about ten of the studies. None of the observed correlations are reported anywhere in AR5. The first four are the ones I mentioned above:
Bond et al. 2001, “Persistent Solar Influence on North Atlantic Climate During the Holocene,” Science.
Excerpt from Bond: “Over the last 12,000 years virtually every centennial time scale increase in drift ice documented in our North Atlantic records was tied to a distinct interval of variable and, overall, reduced solar output.”
Neff et al. 2001, “Strong coherence between solar variability and the monsoon in Oman between 9 and 6 kyr ago,” Nature.
Finding from Neff: Correlation coefficients of .55 and .60.
Usoskin et. al. 2005, “Solar Activity Over the Last 1150 years: does it Correlate with Climate?” Proc. 13th Cool Stars Workshop.
Excerpt from Usoskin: “The long term trends in solar data and in northern hemisphere temperatures have a correlation coefficient of about 0.7 — .8 at a 94% — 98% confidence level.”
Shaviv and Veizer, 2003, “Celestial driver of Phanerozoic climate?” GSA Today.
Excerpt from Shaviv: “We find that at least 66% of the variance in the paleotemperature trend could be attributed to CRF [Cosmic Ray Flux] variations likely due to solar system passages through the spiral arms of the galaxy.” [Not strictly due to solar activity, but implicating the GCR, or CRF, that solar activity modulates.]
Plenty of anti-CO2 alarmists know about this stuff. Mike Lockwood and Claus Fröhlich, for instance, in their 2007 paper: “Recent oppositely directed trends in solar climate forcings and the global mean surface air temperature” (Proc. R. Soc. A), began by documenting how “[a] number of studies have indicated that solar variations had an effect on preindustrial climate throughout the Holocene.” In support, they cited 17 papers: the Bond and Neff articles from above, plus:
Davis & Shafer 1992; Jirikowic et al. 1993; Davis 1994; vanGeel et al. 1998; Yu&Ito 1999; Hu et al. 2003; Sarnthein et al. 2003; Christla et al. 2004; Prasad et al. 2004; Wei & Wang 2004; Maasch et al. 2005; Mayewski et al. 2005; Wang et al. 2005a; Bard & Frank 2006; and Polissar et al. 2006.
The correlations in most of these papers are not directly to temperature. They are to temperature proxies, some of which have a complex relationship with temperature, like Neff 2001, which found a correlation between solar activity and rainfall. Even so, the correlations tend to be strong, as if the whole gyre is somehow moving in broad synchrony with solar activity.
Some studies do examine correlations between solar activity proxies and direct temperature proxies, like the ratio of Oxygen18 to Oxygen16 in geologic samples. One such study (highlighted in Kirkby 2007) is Mangini et. al. 2005, “Reconstruction of temperature in the Central Alps during the past 2000 yr from a δ18O stalagmite record.”
Excerpt from Mangini: “… a high correlation between δ18O in SPA 12 and D14C (r =0.61). The maxima of δ18O coincide with solar minima (Dalton, Maunder, Sporer, Wolf, as well as with minima at around AD 700, 500 and 300). This correlation indicates that the variability of δ18O is driven by solar changes, in agreement with previous results on Holocene stalagmites from Oman, and from Central Germany.”
And that’s just old stuff. Here are four random recent papers.
Ogurtsov et al, 2010, “Variations in tree ring stable isotope records from northern Finland and their possible connection to solar activity,” JASTP.
Excerpt from Ogurtsov: “Statistical analysis of the carbon and oxygen stable isotope records reveals variations in the periods around 100, 11 and 3 years. A century scale connection between the 13C/12C record and solar activity is most evident.”
Di Rita, 2011, “A possible solar pacemaker for Holocene fluctuations of a salt-marsh in southern Italy,” Quaternary International.
Excerpt from Di Rita: “The chronological correspondence between the ages of saltmarsh vegetation reductions and the minimum concentration values of 10Be in the GISP2 ice core supports the hypothesis that important fluctuations in the extent of the salt-marsh in the coastal Tavoliere plain are related to variations of solar activity.”
Raspopov et al, 2011, “Variations in climate parameters at time intervals from hundreds to tens of millions of years in the past and its relation to solar activity,” JASTP.
Excerpt from Raspopov: “Our analysis of 200-year climatic oscillations in modern times and also data of other researchers referred to above suggest that these climatic oscillations can be attributed to solar forcing. The results obtained in our study for climatic variations millions of years ago indicate, in our opinion, that the 200- year solar cycle exerted a strong influence on climate parameters at those time intervals as well.”
Tan et al, 2011, “Climate patterns in north central China during the last 1800 yr and their possible driving force,” Clim. Past.
Excerpt from Tan: “Solar activity may be the dominant force that drove the same-phase variations of the temperature and precipitation in north central China.”
Saltmarshes, precipitation, “oscillations.” It’s all so science-fair. How about something just plain scary?
Solheim et al. 2011, “The long sunspot cycle 23 predicts a significant temperature decrease in cycle 24,” submitted astro-ph.
Excerpt from Solheim: “We find that for the Norwegian local stations investigated that 30-90% of the temperature increase in this period may be attributed to the Sun. For the average of 60 European stations we find ≈ 60% and globally (HadCRUT3) ≈ 50%. The same relations predict a temperature decrease of ≈ 0.9°C globally and 1.1−1.7°C for the Norwegian stations investigated from solar cycle 23 to 24.”
First paleo chapter error: omitting all solar variables besides TSI
The paleo-observations chapter is the right place for the evidence for a solar-magnetic climate driver to be introduced because most of this evidence is obtained from the deposition of cosmogenic isotopes in various paleologic strata: ice cores, geologic cores and tree rings. When solar activity is strong, less galactic cosmic radiation (GCR) is able to penetrate the solar wind and reach earth, making variation in cosmogenic isotopes found in time-indexed strata a proxy for solar activity. But when this chapter does get around to looking at cosmogenic records, it only looks at how they can be used to reconstruct total solar irradiance (TSI). It never even hints at the flood of studies that show a high degree of correlation between solar activity and various paleo proxies for climate and temperature!
This takes place [in the addendum that asks whether the sun is a major climate driver]. This addendum mentions the long-period changes in TSI that go with orbital variation (Milankovitch cycles), a factor which hasn’t changed enough since 1750 to account for any significant amount of the warming since that date. Neither can TSI changes from changes in the sun’s output of electromagnetic radiation be responsible for significant recent warming because, as solar activity jumps dramatically up and down over the roughly 11 year solar cycle, solar output is known to remain remarkably stable, varying only .1 to .2%.
Thus, concludes the addendum, the sun cannot be responsible for any significant amount of the warming since 1750. But it is only able to reach this conclusion by completely omitting any consideration those solar variables other than TSI that could be affecting global temperature. Unlike TSI, solar wind speed and pressure vary considerably over the solar cycle and between solar cycles. So do the Ap index and the F10.7cm radio flux progression, while the GCR that the solar wind modulates (measured by neutron counts at Climax, Oulu and other locations) can vary by a full order of magnitude over the solar cycle. In contrast, TSI varies so little that it is called “the solar constant.” If there is a mechanism by which solar variation is driving global temperature, it is most likely to work through those solar variables that actually vary significantly with solar activity. Yet the discussion in the addendum pretends that these other solar variables do not even exist.
So that’s the first error in the paleo-chapter addendum: pretending to have addressed the range of possible solar effects while studiously neglecting to mention that there are a bunch of solar variables that, unlike TSI, vary tremendously over the solar cycle and might affect our climate in ways that we do not yet understand. We in-effect live inside of the sun’s “atmosphere,” the extended corona created by the sun’s magnetic field and the solar wind. AR5 simply assumes that this solar environment has no effect on global climate, and they do it by rank omission of the relevant variables. The omitted variable problems that result are not an accident. They are omitted variable fraud.
Second paleo-chapter error: the highly irrational assumption that temperature would be driven by the trend in solar activity rather than the level
Perhaps in an effort to justify ignoring all solar variables other than TSI, the paleo-chapter addendum ends with what it presents as a general reason to dismiss the possibility that solar variation made any significant contribution to late 20th century warming by ANY mechanism:
[The statement here it the familiar claim that, because solar activity was not rising over the second half of the 20th century, it cannot possibly be responsible for late 20th century warming. I wrote a series of posts last year documenting the number of anti-CO2 alarmists who make this amazing claim, that it is not the level of forcing that creates warming, but the rate of change in the forcing. See for example, “Solar warming and ocean equilibrium Part 3: Solanki and Schuessler respond.”]
TSI peaks at the high point of the solar cycle just as the other solar variables do, so no matter what solar variable is looked at, it can’t have been the cause of recent warming, because none of these variables showed any upward trend over this period, right? Wrong. That’s like saying you can’t heat a pot of water by turning the flame to maximum and leaving it there, that you have to turn up the flame sloooooowly if you want the water to heat. It is incredible to see something so completely unscientific in AR5, passing as highly vetted science.
And the “flame” did stay on maximum. Again, there was an 80 year “grand maximum” of solar activity starting in the early 1920’s (Usoskin 2007).
[WUWT interjection for Leif and others who deny that there was a 20the century grand maximum of solar activity: if 20th century solar activity was merely “high instead of exceptional” (Muscheler 2007), it makes no difference to the argument here, as I explain in a postscript at the bottom.]
By claiming that solar activity would have had to keep rising in order to cause late 20th century warming, AR5 is in-effect assuming that by the late 70’s the oceans had already equilibrated to whatever temperature forcing effect the 20th century’s high level of solar activity might have. Otherwise the continued high level of solar activity would have caused continued warming.
Claims of rapid ocean equilibration have been made (Schwartz 2007), but they don’t stand up to scrutiny. In order to get his result, Schwartz used an energy balance model with the oceans represented by a single heat sink. That is, he assumed that the whole ocean changed temperature at once! Once you move to a 2 heat sink model where it takes time for heat to transfer from one ocean layer to another (Kirk-Davidoff 2009), rapid temperature adjustment of the upper ocean layer tells us next to nothing about how long it takes for the ocean to equilibrate to a long term forcing. [For an in-depth comparison of one heat-sink and the two heat-sink energy balance models see Part 2 of my ocean equilibration series.]
The paleo-temperature record is typified by multi-century warming and cooling phases, suggesting that equilibration can easily take centuries, making it ludicrous to assume that the warming effect of a grand maximum that began in the 1920’s must have been spent by 1970 or 1980 or by any particular date.
So no, there is no way to save the utterly incompetent argument in the paleo-chapter addendum that a solar driver of temperature can only cause warming when it is on the increase. If solar wind pressure or GCR does in some way drive global temperature, there is every reason to believe that it would have continued to warm the planet for as long as solar activity remained at grand maximum levels. There is no excuse for the IPCC to be omitting these variables, which are much more likely than TSI to be responsible for the high observed degree of correlation between solar activity and climate. For the paleo chapter to be tenable, all of the now massive evidence that there is some mechanism by which solar activity is driving most temperature change must be laid out in full.
Technical note: misattribution is assigned manually in AR5, but the concept is the same as for purely statistical omitted variable fraud
If TSI and the other solar variables all move roughly together, won’t omitting the solar variables other than TSI cause their explanatory power to be attributed to TSI rather than CO2, since they are more closely correlated with TSI than with CO2?
In a purely statistical estimation scheme yes, but the IPCC uses a combination of parameterized elements and estimated elements, and amongst the parameterized elements are the radiative forcings of CO2 and TSI, meaning that their relative warming effects are parameterized as well, with CO2 being assigned 40 times the warming effect of TSI over the 1750 to 2010 period.
This parameterization means that the explanatory power of the omitted solar magnetic variables gets attributed forty parts to CO2 for every one part to TSI. This structure forces the misattribution onto CO2. You can think of it as a manual assignment of the misattribution.
The general concept of the omitted variable remains the same. There is only so much attribution for warming to go around (100%). If attribution is given to the solar-magnetic variables in accordance with the evidence from the historic and paleo records, meaning at least 50%, then there less than 50% that can possibly be attributable to other causes.
Which again brings the scientific competence of IPCC into question. If CO2 has 40 times the warming effect of the 50% driver of global temperature (total solar effects), that makes it what? The 2000% driver of global temperature?
The chapter on aerosols and clouds inverts the scientific method, using theory to dismiss evidence
Where the paleo chapter simply pretends that no solar variable other than TSI exists, the chapter on aerosols and clouds doesn’t have that option. It is tasked to address directly the possibility that variables like the solar wind and GCR could be affecting climate. But this chapter still comes up with a way to avoid mentioning any of the massive evidence that there must be some mechanism by which solar activity is driving climate. Just as it starts to touch on the subject, it jumps instead to examining the tenability of particular theories about the mechanism by which solar activity might drive climate.
This happens right at the beginning of [the section that discusses the possible interplay between cosmic radiation, aerosols and clouds]:
[The quote here is the first two sentences under this sub-chapter heading. The first lists three papers as finding non-specific correlations between cosmogenic isotopes and various climate variables. The second sentence executes an immediate transition to a discussion of the evidence for particular mechanisms by which solar activity might drive global temperature.]
The first sentence of this quote is as close as AR5 comes to making any mention of overwhelming evidence that there is SOME mechanism by which solar activity drives global temperature. The citations suggest some correlations between solar activity and climate, but the strength of the correlations and how well established they are is completely obscured, and that’s it. Bare reference to three papers (author and year) with virtually nothing about what they found. The second sentence effects the transition into looking at the evidence for particular theories of possible mechanisms by which solar activity might effect climate. A short discussion later the evidence for these particular mechanisms is asserted (quite tendentiously) to be “[not strong enough]” for the mechanisms to “[have a significant effect on climate]” (page __, line __). This proclaimed weakness in turn becomes the rationale for omitting the proposed mechanisms from the IPCC’s general circulation models, and hence from the projections that are made with those models.
What do the AR5 draft authors do with the overwhelming evidence that there is SOME mechanism at work that makes solar magnetic the primary driver of global temperature? They don’t like the particular theories offered, but they have to still acknowledge that SOME such mechanism must be at work, don’t they? But readers don’t know about that evidence. It was skipped over via that one sentence of oblique references to a few papers that made unidentified findings, allowing AR5 to continue as if the evidence doesn’t exist. They never mention it again. They never account it in any way. It is GONE from AR5. The authors declare their dissatisfaction with the available theories for how solar activity might drive climate, and use this as an excuse to completely ignore the massive evidence that there is some such mechanism at work.
This is an exact inversion of the scientific method, which says that evidence always trumps theory. The IPCC is throwing away the evidence for a solar-magnetic driver of climate because it isn’t satisfied with the theories that have been proposed to account for it. This is the definition of anti-science: putting theory (or ideology, or anything) over evidence. Evidence has to be the trump card, or its not science. The IPCC is engaged in pure, definitional, anti-science, precisely inverting the scientific method.
It is as if a pre-Newtonian “scientist” were to predict that a rock released into the air will waft away on the breeze because we understand the force that the breeze imparts on the rock but we have no good theory of the mechanism by which heavy objects are pulled to the ground. We should therefore ignore the overwhelming evidence that there is some mechanism that pulls heavy objects to the ground, and until such time as we can identify the mechanism, proceed as if no such mechanism exists. This is what the IPCC is actually doing with the solar-climate evidence. Y’all aren’t scientists. You are actual, definitional, anti-scientists.
More anti-science: the aerosols and clouds chapter repeats the second paleo-chapter error
You know what I’m talking about: that bit about thinking that a climate driver can only cause continued warming if its own level continues to increase. The clouds and aerosols chapter says again that just leaving a proposed climate driver on maximum can’t possibly cause warming (page___, lines ___):
“_____ _____ _____ _____ ____”
And that’s the end of the section, AR5’s punctuation mark on why solar activity and GCR should be dismissed as an explanation for late 20th century warming.
This is anti-scientific in its own way. Scientists are supposed to be smart. They aren’t supposed to think that you have to slowly turn up the flame under a pot of water in order to heat it. You could collect every imbecile in the world together and not a one of them would ever come up with the idea that they have to turn the heat up slowly. It’s beyond stupid. It’s like, insanely stupid. And multiple chapter-writing teams are proclaiming the same nonsense? Fruitcakes.
Okay, I guess that means I’m ready to wrap up. Y’all have taken all these tens of billions in research money and used it perpetrate a fraud. As I have documented above, you have perpetrated the grandest and most blatant example of omitted variable fraud in history, but so far only the skeptic half the world knows it. You still have a shot, before global cooling is an established fact, to make a rapid turn around and save some shred of your reputations. But if AR5 comes out insisting that CO2 is a dominant warming influence just as global cooling is proving that the dominant climate driver is our now-quiet sun, then you all are finished on the spot. You’ll still have your filthy lucre, but the tap is going to turn off, and your reputations will be destroyed forever.
Can you imagine a worse juxtaposition? Still waging war on CO2 as the sun is already proving that CO2 is entirely beneficial? And this is what the evidence says is going to happen, all of that evidence that you have been so studiously omitting. I’m eager for your embarrassment, but I would much rather see you save yourselves, so that the needed policy reversals can some that much sooner. The anti-CO2 policies that your fraudulent “science” has supported are right now destroying the world economy. You idiots are killing our future. Please wake up and try to save your own reputations before your lunatic anti-science ruins us all.
End of review
“Omitted variable fraud” is the more fundamental critique
It is common for those who are swayed by the evidence for solar-climate driver to frame their protest against the IPCC’s dismissal of the evidence by protesting the short shrift the IPCC gives to the theories of how those effects might work. Here, for instance, is Tim Ball’s 2008 critique of AR4:
…they studiously avoided any discussion of the clear relationship between sunspot activity and temperature. They claimed there was no mechanism to explain the correlation so it could not be included, but that is incorrect. A very valid mechanism known as the Cosmic Theory (Svensmark and Calder, “The Chilling Stars”) has been in the literature with increasing detail since 1991. The date is important because IPCC claimed it was excluded because it was not published in time to meet their cut off date for consideration.
In other words, AR4 did exactly the same thing that AR5 is doing. They used the supposed lack of a sufficient theory for how a solar magnetic driver worked as an excuse not to present the overwhelming evidence that some such mechanism is a potent driver of global climate (a ruse that I documented in submitted comments on the Second Order draft of AR4, and TAR pulled the same trick as well.)
Ball’s response—that there actually is a pretty good theory—is perfectly correct, but it skips past the deeper point: that there can never be any excuse for “studiously [avoiding] any discussion of the clear relationship between sunspot activity and temperature.” The “omitted variable fraud” critique directly exposes and attacks this excuse making. Empirical evidence, the raw data, is supposed to be the ultimate arbiter. If any excuse is used to shunt the evidence aside, it’s no longer science.
We also know the consequences of this fraudulent anti-science. Omission of any variable with known explanatory power (regardless of whether the mechanism is understood) creates misattribution of the same magnitude. It’s a first order mistake.
In contrast, giving short shrift to the GCR-cloud theory is a lesser problem. So long as the IPCC’s predictive scheme attributes recent warming to solar activity in accordance with past patterns it isn’t a big deal whether a particular solar-temperature mechanism is modeled or not. At least the known explanatory variables are not being omitted and we are down to second order errors instead of first order errors.
Note that it is not necessary to invoke any theory. Predictions of future solar activity, for instance, are not based on physical models, but are purely a projection of past patterns, and this is sufficient to avoid first order error. Avoid the omitted variable fraud, account the known explanatory power of the solar-magnetic variables in any reasonable way, and big mistakes are avoided.
For the fraudsters, big mistakes are the whole point. Only with big mistakes can our eco-leftist “scientists” wage their war against industrial capitalism. Only big mistakes can give mainstream-left politicians the vast energy taxes that they eye as a treasure trove and allow them to channel hundreds of billions of dollars in wind and solar subsidies to their friends and backers.
But it’s an easy fraud to expose. Pretty much everyone who has ever taken a first course in statistics is familiar with the omitted variable problem. That is every undergraduate economics major, every business major, every science major, and most other social science majors. Right now, most of these people believe it when they are told that they can’t check the facts for themselves, that they just have to trust (or not trust) the credentialed climate scientists. But it is not true. Not only can they check the facts for themselves, but it is trivially easy.
All they need to do is scan a selection of the many empirical findings that solar-magnetic activity “explains” in the statistical sense something like half of past temperature change, then observe that all solar magnetic variables are in fact omitted from the IPCC models. It’s right there the RF table for each area report, where total solar effects are parameterized as having some tiny fraction of the warming effect of CO2. Then bingo. They know that powerful solar-warming effects are being misattributed to the coincidentally correlated CO2. They have checked the facts for themselves, at which point the voices of authority insisting that they cannot check the facts for themselves instantly become the Wizard of Oz, ordering them to ignore the man behind the curtain. Not even trusting little Dorothy fell for that.
Fundamental and accessible. That’s why I have trying to push the “omitted variable fraud” critique for many years. Anthony has a bigger bullhorn than I have had access to in the past, so maybe it will get out there this time!
If Leif is right that sunspot counts since 1945 should be reduced 20%, it does not alter the above analysis in any significant way
My review cites Usoskin’s claim that solar activity was at “grand maximum” levels from about 1920-2000. Frequent WUWT contributor Leif Svalsgaard denies that the recent peak in solar activity was a “grand maximum,” arguing that Max Waldmeier’s post-1945 sunspot counting scheme yields numbers that are about 20% too high.
If solar activity from 1945 to 2000 was merely “high instead of exceptional” (Muscheler 2007, whose cosmogenic proxies for solar activity extend through 2001), the narrative here is not significantly altered. As my review reiterates, you don’t have to keep turning the flame up under a pot of water to cause warming. Coming out of the Maunder Minimum/ Little Ice Age, if what the paleo-data says is the primary driver of global temperature remained at a high setting for most of a couple of centuries, that should cause continued warming. To actually argue that solar forcing has to continue rising in order to cause continued warming (the IPCC just asserts it) you’d have to argue that oceans had already equilibrated to the forcing, but there is no evidence for that, while the history of planetary temperature suggests that equilibration can take several centuries.
It is true that some of the strongest correlations between solar activity and temperature have short lags, on the order of ten years, but rapid responses to short term changes in solar-magnetic activity do not militate against longer term responses to longer term forcings. On the contrary, short term responsiveness implies longer term responsiveness, just as the rapid response of daytime temperatures to the rising sun implies that the longer term increase in insolation as the seasons change towards summer should cause seasonal temperature change (which of course it does).
For present purposes, it doesn’t matter whether solar activity quickly jumped up to high levels after Maunder and stayed mostly at those levels until the end of the 20th century (with the notable exceptions of the Dalton Minimum and the turn of the 19th century lull), or whether solar activity over the second half of the 20th century really did ascend to the highest levels seen since 9000 BC (Usoskin). As far as we know, either scenario could easily account for the modest amount of warming in question.
That’s an unexceptional .7° C from 1600 to the 1961-90 average according to Moberg 2005 , or .5° between 1750 to 1961-90. That 1961-90 temperature average is the HadCRUT3 zero point. HadCRUT3 reached a peak of .548 in 1998 and has fallen a couple of tenths since, so altogether there was a peak of about a 1° increase over the IPCC’s 260 year study period (now down to about .8°) which is nothing unusual in the ups and downs of global temperature.
There is no reason to think that the sun could only be responsible for this unexceptional temperature increase if there had been 50 years of the highest solar activity since 9000 BC. Of course the IPCC thinks that any steady level of solar activity over the second half of the 20th century rules out a solar explanation for the small amount of warming over that period on grounds that the level of solar activity didn’t keep going up to even more extreme levels, but they’re just a bunch of fruitcake anti-scientists.
Submitted review contains one inaccuracy that is corrected in the review posted above
My submitted review claimed that the only reference in the First Order Draft to the vast evidence for a solar-climate driver comes in a single sentence that makes an oblique reference to a single research paper. In the corrected review above, that becomes a single sentence making oblique reference to three research papers.
Two of the papers only look at solar-climate correlations over the second half of the 20th century and hence are inherently unable to draw strong conclusions. I guess I was thinking that the only “real” citation was to the survey paper that actually addresses the paleo-data. But those details are irrelevant to the point I was trying to make—that a reader of AR5 is given no hint of what is in any these papers—and no clue that numerous studies point to solar activity as the primary driver of global temperature. The submitted review quotes the full sentence, so it isn’t hiding anything, but it isn’t fully accurate.
So that’s the price of procrastination. It was just before the submission deadline and I had a reunion dinner to rush off to so I was not able to vet as thoroughly as I would have liked. Still, this is the only actual screw-up in my submitted review: it isn’t one oblique reference to a single paper, but one sentence obliquely referencing three papers. With the draft report unavailable to WUWT readers I don’t want to put forward any mischaracterizations, so I made the correction and am footnoting it here.
The posting here also fixes some typos, adds links to some of the cited papers, adds some formatting that was unavailable on our Excel submission form, and touches up the presentation in a few spots.

Henry@UzUrBrain
One more question
please
those scrubbers that you mentioned, that have to remove the excess CO2,
how does that work exactly? How is the CO2 in the air removed, precisely, and where does it end up?
UzUrBrain says:
February 25, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Myrrh – Question for you.
What has happened to NASA? How can one NASA scientist (can I say division or group) claim that IR energy from the sun does not reach the earth and another NASA group design their equipment to cope with the IR energy that does reach the earth? How can NASA claim that IR energy does not reach the earth, yet it is used in solar water heaters, and other solar heat collectors? Why did my electric bill go down by more than 30% when I placed IR film on my windows? (I heat my home with a heat pump so I already have 50% more than the recommended amount of insulation for this climate.) How much more will it decrease if I paint my windows opaque? How do they get away with this fraud, falsification, can I say lie?
=======
They get away with it because those whose agenda it was to produce it in the first place are now in control.
The NASA page which still contains traditional real world physics was in the process of being deleted. it disappeared for a while and then came back. I’d tried saving it on a web page saving set up, but it was taken off there! I’ve noticed others using webcites to try and keep a record of pages, and some of these I’ve noticed have also disappeared.
They also get away with because as you can see here, it has been successfully introduced into the education system – that’s why so many never question it. They, the AGWSF science meme producing department, has been tweaking with basic physics for some decades now. That’s why people believe that visible light is heat, and carbon dioxide can defy gravity by getting up off the floor and spontaneously diffusing into the atmosphere as if it were the imaginary ideal gas.. It’s actually very clever tweaking, but extraordinarily hard to point out to those who haven’t got any idea of actual properties and processes of molecules and electromagnetic waves.
This is from a very complete worksheet/training aid from MIT about submarine environmental controls and their chemistries.
See http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2005/a2/8/pdf1.pdf
“5.2 Carbon Dioxide Removal
CO2 is removed from submarine atmospheres by means that are classified as
regenerative or non-regenerative depending on whether the absorbent can be recycled at sea.
5.2.1 LiOH absorbers
These are a non-regenerative means for removing CO2 from the gas stream passed
through canisters holding the LiOH. Since this is the lowest formula weight strong base, it
sets the theoretical standard for such ability at 29 lbs. of CO2 absorbed per 31.5 lb. canister.
Actual performance is approximately 28 lbs. In operation it can keep atmospheric CO2
below 2% at 1 atm total pressure and does not require power for operation although it is used
with a fan when possible.
2LiOH + CO2 ® Li2CO3 + H2O
5.2.2 CO2 Scrubbers
These are regenerative systems which utilize aqueous solutions of 25 – 30 wt.%
(4-5 M) monoethanolamine (MEA), NH2CH2CH2OH. The absorption process is a Lewis
acid-base reaction:
2 2 2 2 2 H -O -CH -CH – NH +O =C =O®H -O -CH -CH – NH- CO- OH
The reaction is reversed by heat or by exposure of the product to an atmosphere with
low CO2 P . The air to be treated enters the exchange tower at 80°F and 75% relative humidity
(RH). It is blown through woven stainless steel packing over which the MEA solution is
flowing. Between 70 and 90% of the CO2 is removed by this one pass through. The air is
passed through a filter to entrap droplets of the MEA solution and the air returns to the sub at
about 75°and 100% RH.
The MEA solution is recycled over the stainless steel screens with a portion of it
withdrawn on each pass. This material is passed through a column packed with glass rings
and heated to drive off the CO2 under pressure. The “cleaned” MEA is returned to the
absorption cycle. The CO2 is cooled, compressed, and discharged overboard.
Some problems with the system include the carry-over of MEA and ammonia,
created when the MEA slowly breaks down during the stripping phase, into the submarine’s
atmosphere with the cleaned air. The decomposition of MEA is also catalyzed by the
presence of metal ions so chelating agents are added to limit this degradation. Even with
filtering, some physiologically significant material escapes into the sub.
Very expensive, very power-hungry process. And, you still only end up with a little bit a high-pressure CO2. Current CO2 scrubbing schemes from a power plant or cement mill or steel mill would require about 23 – 32 percent of the actual output power be wasted in CO2 sequestration. For no good at all.
Well, Obama and Al Gore would feel better.
Encounter with a Stoat.
Hi William,
Let’s not be ignorant by suggesting the behavior of many on the pro AGW side has not been less than civil over the years. One does not have to look further than the ‘denialist’ tag.
[No, won’t do. It has become clearer over the years that the denialist tag is entirely correct (I tried to get people to go with septic, but it hasn’t really caught on). The only thing that the WUWT folk have in common is denial of GW (in fact even that is being too kind; most of them are utterly clueless about what the scientific opinion is; its not as if they’ve ever read any, or the IPCC reports. They are still lost in their shadow-world of CAGW). They have nothing to put in its place -W]
It serves no purpose to remain civil in these circumstances. Every man has a right to defend themselves. Some feel their intelligence has been under attack by the consensus side. Good men, not of science but virtue, have always resisted by force movements of destruction.
[That was gobbledegook -W]
The consensus in the wider community that the IPCC is bad for their children’s future and that of their children’s children. The community is tired of the nonsense foisted on them by “experts”, this is now the reality of our times.
[I see you’re clueless about the IPCC too -W]
Gravity rejects turbulence, as the public will do. As we all know the science is settled, AGW is not valid empirically.
[Are you trolling? -W]
Posted by: Markus Fitzhenry | February 26, 2012 5:35 AM
——————————————
What a strange young man William is. Worldy in the ways of the IPCC, yet runs at a red handkerchief, trips and lands head first.
David says:
February 25, 2012 at 9:58 pm
myrrh says:
February 25, 2012 at 2:56 am
—————————————————-
Long paranoid post. Paranoid in the sense that I am a CAGW sceptic,
Oh dear, I hope you can get over it. But I have to say, I do find ‘your kind sceptic’ particularly odd, but that could just be me, don’t worry about it…
and my one post to you explained how the veacity of your comments was not relevant. to what I was trying to articulate. You have tried to linlk your theory, to Alec Rawls concerning the peer reviewed solar science being ignored by the IPCC.
Oooh. Have you gone off script? I’m not in business of trying to write what you want to articulate.
Well, here’s the thing, I’m writing about what I see relevant in Alec’s post. And I’ve explained why. And I hope Alec finds it interesting – I think he will, because I became just as angry at the deliberate fraud producing this fictional fisics basics when I realised it had been introduced into the education system. I am appalled that children are being taught this because they have lost appreciation of the real world around us, and especially disgusted that they are being brainwashed into believing that carbon dioxide is a toxic. That Alec came to his conclusion that this was a deliberate fraud was through his own expertise, and that’s why I think his post important, because his analysis carries weight, and he writes well.
And here you’re a perfect example of your kind of sceptic, because you can’t hack that you’re using IPCC sanctioned fictional science in the very basics of your claim that Carbon Dioxide drives temperatures, so you object when this is pointed out. Tough, until you can prove that Carbon Dioxide actually does this you are merely posturing that you have real physics on your side, but you haven’t. You’re spouting deliberately created fictional fisics about it and as all your kind of sceptics do, never providing any proof the very many times I’ve asked for it, or logical physical explanations, or shown any empirical functioning in the real world of your claims. Instead, as you do here, you resort to ad hom and variations, by the same old same old memes deflecting from the fact that you can’t provide same. Your kind of sceptics are a big part of the problem.
CO2s affect within the atmosphere could hijack every thread, and I guess, that as you are allowed to do so so often, you will continue to hijack those threads in which you participate. You called me “scared” as if I was debating you. Sorry, not interested. My suggestion for those who love to turn every post into a CO2 debate, whas that a side bar be set up. If your efforts in this post and been to force W.C. to actually address what Alec wrote, and to admit that Alec directly answered his questions with peer reviewed literature and explanations, both in the “Header Post, and in subsequent comments, then you what have been far more effective in countering CAGW fraud.
Your physics is a fraud so I have absolutely no desire to be associated with it., or desire for any to mistake me for your kind of sceptic.That’s the point I’m making. You’re part of the IPCC lunatic anti-science as spread by those anti-science sceptics such as yourself.
And you’d so like to get rid of me … Take my challenge you fictional fisics spreader. Prove that the basic physics of the cartoon energy budget exists in the real world, that visible light will heat the rooms those buggers are paying mega dollars for windows to let as much of that in and keep the real heat from the Sun out, the thermal infrared which you say doesn’t reach the Earth’s surface..
kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:
February 25, 2012 at 7:59 am [ … ]
Relative humidity should be rising with rising temperatures, according to some. According to others, R.H. should stay the same with rising temperatures. Prof Miskolczi says R.H. should be falling. He’s right.
Miskolczi also states that the climate’s sensitivity to 2xCO2 is 0.0°C. Time will tell.
HenryP says:
February 25, 2012 at 11:28 pm
Myrrh says
Scientific studies and established medical practices leave no doubt that increased levels of CO2 help people with respiratory problems and, some time in our lives, that will include nearly every one of us.”
Henry@Myrrh
Well said. Good comment! People who hyperventilate must also get more CO2.
Thank you Henry.
Did you figure out yet why there are clouds that are absolutely white and seem to be even radiating from the inside to the outside and why there dark clouds, (that seem to be carrying water)?
Don’t you think it might have something to do with the absorption spectra of pure water and water vapor and the differences between those spectra?
Henry, please, I’ve explained that water is transparent to visible light, absorption doesn’t come into it.
Oxygen and nitrogen molecules do absorb visible light, the AGWSF meme that the atmosphere is transparent to visible light, their greenhouse energy budget, is not true in the real world.
Visible light works on the electronic transition level – as explained, that’s how we get our blue sky, the electrons of the molecules of oxygen and nitrogen absorb and spit out, technically reflect/scatter, visible light. There is actual absorption of visible’s energy, on an electron scale in our atmosphere. (Near infrared, also like visible light and UV, not hot, is microscopic, visible is even tinier.) However, there is no absorption of visible light by water, because water is really a transparent medium for visible, which means, that visible’s energy is not absorbed, not even as in the atmosphere on an electron take it in and spit it back out again scale.
See my post Myrrh says:
February 23, 2012 at 10:16 am
I have posted an excellent description of what it means for visible light travelling through a real transparent medium, where none of visible’s energy is absorbed. That’s what transparent means, that the energy isn’t absorbed.
You need to go to optics to understand LIGHT. (As one needs to go to Thermodynamics to study Thermal Infrared, HEAT.)
Transparent mediums are all about refraction, not reflection. The energy isn’t absorbed in refraction, it is in reflection/scattering, see the electronic transition possibles; the energy isn’t absorbed in a transparent medium transmitting visible through. And, remember that these are distinct wavelengths, they are not ‘all the same electromagnetic energy’, they have different properties from each other as well as similarities; they will be affected by the density of the transparent medium they are travelling through, according to their differences from each other.
So, clouds are fluid water vapour, gas, forming fluid liquid water drops or crystals of ice around bits of ‘dirt’ in the sky, that dirt can be salt, particles of dust etc., and how these form is well known and categorised. The light we get from the Sun is white, that is, all the colours together make white light. You can sometimes see this when you look directly at the Sun, it appears white. So the first thing to consider is this white light in refraction because water is a transparent medium, we’re seeing what is being refracted off the cloud liquid water drops or ice crystals as light moves from one medium to another, and as it is being transmitted through it. In some white clouds you will sometimes find a prism effect, and you’ll see the colours split out. Clouds that are dark are basically the light not getting through, which is why a cloud which appears dark on the bottom can be white on top. And then there’s pigments.. again, see the electronic transitions as some light will be absorbed and some reflected, which is how we see our world in colour. The green leaves of plants are reflecting green light back at us, because the plant isn’t absorbing it to use for chemical energy of turning visible red and blue into sugar. Anyway, your clouds radiating from the inside are will be due to the thickness, the density, perhaps because of what you’re not seeing from the ground, that on top it is white, and that refraction can then appear coming from inside the cloud because at that point it is thinner and light is getting through.
Hope your ears have recovered. Last time I was in SA I made the mistake of thinking something wasn’t that far from a bus route stop and I could walk it easily, lunchtime..
From Smokey on February 26, 2012 at 1:17 pm:
Good old WMC had stated about relative humidity staying the same with a warming world, and after I pointed out measurements show RH decreasing he shut up. I’ve been waiting for a response, and now WMC earned himself a 72 hour time out. Guess I’ll never get that reply.
Maybe I’ve been doing too much systems-type programming in my life, from computer programs to PLC’s to even real ladder-logic circuits with actual relays and wiring. But with temperature as an input, what WMC said violates system logic.
1. If temperature stays the same, then the system should have constancy. RH should stay the same.
2. If temperature increasing does not change the RH, then what happens when temperature is decreasing? The possible modes are RH increasing, staying the same, and decreasing. If the same then temperature has no effect on RH, which doesn’t make sense. Excluding it, then RH could either increase or decrease, and the selection mechanism is not clear.
2a. Only with decreasing temperature can there be a RH change, up or down? That doesn’t make sense.
3. Since constant temperature should select constant RH, then each of the remaining temperature modes should select a distinct RH response, with the opposite temperature mode selecting the opposite RH response.
Thus I found it hard to accept that rising temperatures would leave RH the same. Sure, there are many other variables involved, and temperature is more of a result of other inputs, it’s not an independent variable. But as stated, looking at just temperature and RH, it doesn’t make sense for RH to stay the same with a warming world.
From Myrrh on February 26, 2012 at 2:29 pm
Yet oxygen and nitrogen are present in water, they naturally diffuse into it. For example, water contains complete O₂ molecules (see here).
Thus the water contains that which absorbs visible light. Thus “water” as commonly found on this planet, will absorb visible light. If I would test water from a stream, a river, or an ocean, I would find that it absorbs visible light, since, by what you have said, it contains that which can absorb visible light.
Thus the oceans are absorbing visible light.
To HenryP
Perhaps this analogy may help. If you are familiar with the physics of a semiconductor (transistor, etc.) you are probably aware of how different semiconductor material and different doping material requires different energy levels of electrons for the device to work. If the energy is not correct – the device does not function. The effect of electromagnetic waves (light, heat, radio-waves) all work on the same principle. Thus, hitting an atom with an electromagnetic wave of the wrong frequency/wavelength will have no effect. Hitting an atom with an electromagnet wave of the proper wavelength will have an effect. All of my training on transistors are based upon the valance band energy level principle, but from recent readings I am learning that this is transitioning over to quantum mechanics principles, and I am not very well informed/knowledgeable on these new theories. Another example would be like the harmonic vibrations in a guitar cord from the vibrations of same string in a different guitar. Only the similar strings vibrate.
Dig out some books on nuclear theory. In them you can learn how some nuclear reactors work on thermal (low energy) neutrons and some work on fast (high energy) neutrons. To drastically simplify the concept (which may be incorrect, but is the way I would explain to someone with no nuclear training, and I am no nuclear instructor) the thermal fission reactor requires most of the neutrons that cause the fission to be of thermal energy. Only a minority of the fast neutrons cause a fission. Most go through the fissionable material with no effect upon the atom. The fast neutrons must be slowed down by numerous collisions with a moderator to cause a fission. On the other hand, in a fast fission reactor (which has a different fissionable material) the fast neutrons cause and are needed for the fission to happen. The thermal (slow, not very energetic) neutrons rarely (but may) cause a fission to take place. The slow ones just do not have enough strength to fracture (fission) the atom. Keep in mind that different fissionable material are used in each of the different types of reactors..
Henry@RACook1978
Thanks so much for that information! Very interesting.
I had figured that they would use some hydroxide to trap the CO2, but expected it to be NaOH, seeing that that would be the cheapest option. The LiOH can absorb more and I suppose weight is a factor, on journeys with ships and planes.
The regenerative option with the MEA was something I would never have thought of.
UzUrBrain says:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/02/22/omitted-variable-fraud-vast-evidence-for-solar-climate-driver-rates-one-oblique-sentence-in-ar5/#comment-905556
Henry says
Sorry, but I realize that nuclear power & – reactions is not my field, I am not going to pretend…
Seeing you worked with the safety features of nuclear plants, my question was if you still trust nuclear power, seeing that for example, we had a few incidents. In the case of Chernobyl, all 300 people involved in the encapsulation have all since died. And now they have discovered that the encapsulation there has started leaking again. It has to de re-done. But apparently the expense is so great that the whole of the Ukraine cannot pay for it. They have asked help from the AEC, I think.
In the case of Fukushima I think they wanted to use some kind of big cloth or something, to cover the plant but I am not convinced that that is going to work.
Henry@kadaka (KD Knoebel)
Over the past 3-4 decades I found temperatures rising at ca. + 0.13 degrees C per decade globally due to natural reasons, i.e more intense heat from the sun and or less clouds and/or less ozone, & & &,
whilst at the same time my tables show that RH has been decreasing globally at a rate of about -0.2% per decade. Precipitation was found increasing by about + 1.5 mm per month per decade. Seeing that Roy Spencer also gets the same 0.13 globally, I am confident that my tables form a reasonable estimate for global humidity and – precipitation changes as as well.
http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/henrys-pool-table-on-global-warming
(currently 22 weather stations evaluated)
From what I have learned on this thread, apparently warmer nights have been decreasing and colder nights have been increasing over the period 1979-2003, which lies well within the period that I also looked at.
My point is that it seems from all these results that fluctuations in the temperature range are increasing, which explains both rising rainfall & condensation and decreasing RH.
(Remember that maxima have been rising globally at a rate of 0.38 degrees C per decade, which is what is pushing up the average temps.)
kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:
February 26, 2012 at 3:34 pm
From Myrrh on February 26, 2012 at 2:29 pm
Henry, please, I’ve explained that water is transparent to visible light, absorption doesn’t come into it.
Oxygen and nitrogen molecules do absorb visible light, the AGWSF meme that the atmosphere is transparent to visible light, their greenhouse energy budget, is not true in the real world.
Yet oxygen and nitrogen are present in water, they naturally diffuse into it. For example, water contains complete O₂ molecules (see here).
Oh for goodness sake – when will you people get some sense of scale? To you an electromagnetic wave the size of a bus is the same as one which is microscopic..
“Oxygen is much less abundant in the water. Air consists of 21% oxygen, but the oxygen content in water is only 0.001%! Therefore, gills need to be much more efficient than lungs in extracting oxygen.”
You don’t even understand the links you give. Or don’t bother reading them.
Go on a couple of pages: ” Since, the amount of oxygen dissolved in water is small compared to the weight of water, it isn’t appropriate to describe the level of dissolved oxygen in terms of a percentage. Dissolved oxygen is measured in milligrams per liter (mg/L). One milligram (mg) is 1/1000 (one thousandth) of a gram or 1/1000000 (one millionth) of a kilogram. 1 kilogram of water weighs 1 kilogram and occupies a volume of 1 liter (L). Therefore, expressing dissolved oxygen in mg/L is the same as using units of parts per million (ppm). Twelve parts per million (12 mg/L) is the highest amount of oxygen that can be dissolved in water under standard barometric pressures (sea level); 12 mg/L is known as the saturation point. Zero parts per million (0 mg/L) is the lowest amount of dissolved oxygen in water.”
And, since you mention it… carbon dioxide more than naturally diffuses into water, it actually joins with water in an irresistable attraction becoming carbonic acid – all pure clean rain is carbonic acid, so is fog, dew etc., and that means it is fully part of the great Water Cycle which takes away heat from the Earth’s surface releasing it in the colder higher air and condensing out into rain.
This lowers the temperature of the Earth from the 67°C it would be if we had our atmosphere (practically 100% nitrogen and oxygen) and no water. Greenhouse gases cool the Earth by 52°C to bring it down to 15°C, think deserts to imagine what that would be like.
And in case you’re missing the point here – it is an AGWScience Fiction meme “that greenhouse gases warm the Earth 33°C from the -18°C it would be without them” – that -18°C is for the Earth without any atmosphere at all. So oxygen and nitrogen are included in the real world as greenhouse gases to give the warming from -18°C to the 15°C we have.
Not only does water cool the Earth, it brings carbon dioxide back to where plants, and therefore we, need it, and, it is the great wash cycle, it cleans the air because it needs stuff to form around. Although carbon dioxide being heavier than air will anyway always be displacing air to come to ground, it can’t defy gravity and “accumulate for hundreds and thousands of years in the atmosphere” as in the fictional fisics of AGW.
Thus the water contains that which absorbs visible light. Thus “water” as commonly found on this planet, will absorb visible light.
🙂 But if you’re admitting that oxygen and nitrogen absorb visible light – how much is visible light heating the atmosphere which is practically 100% nitrogen and oxygen??
You haven’t included it in your cartoon energy budget in which you claim that the atmosphere is transparent to visible light and doesn’t heat it…
If I would test water from a stream, a river, or an ocean, I would find that it absorbs visible light, since, by what you have said, it contains that which can absorb visible light.
Thus the oceans are absorbing visible light.
I repeat – “Oxygen is much less abundant in the water. Air consists of 21% oxygen, but the oxygen content in water is only 0.001%! ”
You don’t even understand the links you give. Or don’t bother reading them.
Now, how much is visible light heating the atmosphere which is practically 100% dry weight nitrogen and oxygen?
I repeat, how much is visible light heating the atmosphere which is practically 100% dry weight nitrogen and oxygen?
Dear Myrrh
I had hoped that you would figure out why white clouds (with more water vapor) are white and why dark clouds (carrying more water) are dark.
I will give you all the clues to figure it out.
Carefully study what I said, here,
http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/the-greenhouse-effect-and-the-principle-of-re-radiation-11-Aug-2011
and as far as possible, do all the experiments that I describe.
Especially observe dawn in a dark forest that is humid: Note the light that is re-radiated by the water vapor.
You have to try and understand the principles otherwise you donot know what is happening when light (radiation) hits water and water vapor.
For example, water does have absorption in the UV. So if UV light hits the ocean, although initially it did not have “warmth” as you claim, it gets re-radiated. Eventually that re-radiation must end up in the molecules of the water as heat.
That is why you cannot describe light only as waves. It is also photons (matter) that can affect electrons that can affect the coldness of the waters.
Indeed, water is much more transparent to light the waetr vapor (100 x less absorption then water vapor and slightly more shifted towards the blue and UV). But it is not completely transparent. That is why, eventually, the light cannot penetrate the oceans deeper than ca. 200 m. The fact that we cannot see light in the deep sea (even when we know the sun is shining on top) means that somewhere on top of us the light has “disappeared”. But the energy of that light could not have disappeared. Sonewhere that light was absorbed and changed to energy.
Water also has strong absorption in the Infra Red. That will get quickly get re-radiated in the top layers.
(test: swimming pool, no pump running, sunshine all day. At the end of the day, where is it warmer, on the top or in the bottom layer?)
I have given you all the clues now.
HenryP said – “I have given you all of the clues”
Henry, I hate to tell you but you are clueless!
Look at the other analogies I provided to try to explain why some atoms are affected by some wavelengths and some are not. If you can’t understand that you need to get out a high school physics book.
More important than that though is that 300 people have not died at Chernobyl. I repeat 300 people have NOT died from the Chernobyl accident. (At least that is better than the 5000 the leftwingnuts throw around.) The number is closer to 50, and the majority of that 50 are the “First Responders” if you could call them that by any stretch of the imagination. They are the ones forced, almost at gunpoint, within the first hours (not months later when they entombed the plant) exceeding stay times that would be imposed on any normal nuclear worker by ten to one hundred times to try to control the accident. Some even did it to save others life and gave up their life willingly in this effort. Get the facts. Quit reading the miss-information. You will also learn that the other reactors at Chernobyl are (or were until recently) still operating. More than 50 people die each year die from accidents in coal plants or mining coal. More than 50 people die each year from accidents related to using natural gas. On average, about that many from Hydro. It takes a long time to average out the deaths caused by a failed dam. Look up the number of dam disasters. And 5 to ten die each year from accidents related to Wind turbines, which produce less than 1% of our energy. In fact, working at Nuclear Power plant is SAFER than working in the offices of an accounting firm and the NRC has data to prove that statement – look it up.
Now add up all of the CO2 coal, gas, and WIND/Solar (yes they have a Carbon footprint) generate either together or individually. Compare that to the ZERO, NONE NADA CO2 output from power generated from Nuclear power. YES CLEAN nuclear power generates less CO2 than either Wind OR Solar. Oh, you don’t want to store the waste? Then put it on a rocket and send it to the Sun. That would be no more expensive than what we are doing now – and even with that Nuclear is cheaper than any of the other forms of power generation. Oh, maybe someone might die from the miniscule amount of radiation given off by the Fukushima Nuclear Accident? Well, history will tell you that more people have already died from the LNG tank explosions or the NG fires in Japan alone (ignoring all other energy related deaths) during the earthquake than ever will from the nuclear accident. Or is their life worth less than those that might, maybe, could if you hope real hard die from an amount of radiation that has never killed anyone else ever before?
Please stay away from the fear mongering pages.
HenryP says:
February 27, 2012 at 4:12 am
Dear Myrrh
I had hoped that you would figure out why white clouds (with more water vapor) are white and why dark clouds (carrying more water) are dark.
I will give you all the clues to figure it out.
Carefully study what I said, here,
http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/the-greenhouse-effect-and-the-principle-of-re-radiation-11-Aug-2011
and as far as possible, do all the experiments that I describe.
Henry, I’m sorry, I really have no idea what you mean by the words you use, for example here:
“If the gas or liquid is completely transparent, we will measure 100% of the light that we put through the sample coming through on the other side. If there is “absorption” of light at that specific wavelength that we put through the sample, we only measure a certain % on the other side. The term “extinction” was originally used but later “absorption” was used to describe this phenomenon, meaning the light that we put on was somehow “absorbed”. I think this was a rather unfortunate description as it has caused a lot of confusion since. Many people think that what it means is that the light of that wavelength is continually “absorbed” by the molecules in the sample and converted to heat. If that were true, you would not be able to stop the meter at a certain wavelength without over-heating the sample, and eventually it should explode, if the sample is contained in a sealed container. Of the many measurements that I performed, this has never ever happened.”
You appear to understand that ‘absorption’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘heat creation’.
Especially observe dawn in a dark forest that is humid: Note the light that is re-radiated by the water vapor.
You have to try and understand the principles otherwise you donot know what is happening when light (radiation) hits water and water vapor.
See optics on refraction. Do you mean refraction here or reflection?
For example, water does have absorption in the UV. So if UV light hits the ocean, although initially it did not have “warmth” as you claim, it gets re-radiated. Eventually that re-radiation must end up in the molecules of the water as heat.
See any sensible description of UV – UV does not change water in any way. UV is used extensively in killing bacteria in water. It does not kill bacteria by boiling them alive.
You’re confusing terms. UV gets transmitted through water. See the champions description. It doesn’t change water in any way, which means it doesn’t get absorbed.
That is why you cannot describe light only as waves. It is also photons (matter) that can affect electrons that can affect the coldness of the waters.
Indeed, water is much more transparent to light the waetr vapor (100 x less absorption then water vapor and slightly more shifted towards the blue and UV). But it is not completely transparent. That is why, eventually, the light cannot penetrate the oceans deeper than ca. 200 m. The fact that we cannot see light in the deep sea (even when we know the sun is shining on top) means that somewhere on top of us the light has “disappeared”. But the energy of that light could not have disappeared. Sonewhere that light was absorbed and changed to energy.
Or attenuated and stopped. Didn’t do anything, just stopped.
Y’all seem to have this strange idea that created light in the Sun somehow becomes eternal..
And as you noted, the mis-understanding of the word absorbed has confused, and been used deliberately to confuse, that ‘absorption means creating heat’. There are other forms of energy from visible light, photosynthesis is chemical energy for example, and if some manage to get through the conundrum I’ve set with my question ‘how much does visible light heat the atmosphere since it is absorbed by the electrons of nitrogen and oxygen?’, they’ll begin to grasp this.
But, apart from all that, I am talking about the AGWSF energy budget – it makes ‘the claim that shortwave directly converts land and oceans to heat’. ‘That this is the ‘peak high energy HEATING mechanism from the Sun of the Earth’, the ‘EArth then radiates out thermal infrared in huge amounts because of this great heating from shortwave’. They claim the real heat from the Sun, the Sun’s huge thermal energy on the move to us which we can feel the heat as we feel it from a fire, or a hot pavement, the invisible thermal infrared, ‘doesn’t reach the Earth’s surface’.
Now, unless they can prove that these shortwaves actually heat land and oceans, which they can’t, they have to admit that this is fictional fisics. I honestly don’t know where you stand in this, I can’t make out what you’re arguing about because, maybe, of your use of terms.
If I hear ‘not completely transparent’ one more time I shall skweem and skweem and skweem …
Can you please come back to my argument?
Water also has strong absorption in the Infra Red. That will get quickly get re-radiated in the top layers.
(test: swimming pool, no pump running, sunshine all day. At the end of the day, where is it warmer, on the top or in the bottom layer?)
I have given you all the clues now.
You’ve given me naught! Heat rises! Water has an extraordinarily high heat capacity! Have you taken any of that into consideration?
Water is a very strong absorber of thermal infrared – heat – that is how the Sun warms us up – because the heat from the Sun penetrates our bodies and heats up the water in us. What does hot water do? It goes through phase changes, it evaporates even quicker.
And as I’ve said before, if you’ve got something to say spit it out, I’m not a mind reader. Make your claims and I’ll either agree with you or I won’t.
P.S. See the difference between electronic transitions and vibrational resonance – the first is on the tiny scale of electrons, the second is on the scale of the whole atom or molecule! The second is how the invisible thermal infrared Sun’s heat energy direct to us moves the whole molecule of water into vibrational resonance – this is what is heating the water up.
Rub your hands together, that is mechanical energy causing the molecules in your skin to vibrate, to heat up. That’s what the heat we feel direct from the Sun, the invisible real heat of thermal infrared, does to molecules of water.
It is the Sun’s invisible thermal energy moving the molecules, just as mechanical energy moves the molecules.
Some pages on UV:
http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5188035_uv-light-kill-bacteria_.html
http://extension.missouri.edu/p/WQ102
“Ultraviolet
Ultraviolet (UV) light has disinfection properties that kill bacteria, viruses and some cysts. However, it will not kill giardia cysts.
While not allowed under the current rules of the Missouri Department of Health for private water supplies, the concept of using light to treat water supplies has been around for over 75 years.”
75 years! We know stuff about Light and Heat. We know it so well that we have companies making expensive windows to keep houses cool in hot countries – and they do this by maximising the VISIBLE Light getting through, and eliminating as much of the INVISIBLE Thermal Infrared Heat from getting through.
The AGWSF Budget is a comic cartoon..
The fisics has been manipulated, by giving the actual properties of thermal infrared to visible and shortwave.
If you can objectively grasp this, you will begin to notice other tweaks it makes to real physics, to produce more comic cartoon fisics – stuff that is impossible in our real physical world.
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2008JG000816.shtml
Patterns of spatial and temporal variability of UV transparency in Lake Tahoe, California-Nevada
Lake Tahoe is an ultra-oligotrophic subalpine lake that is renowned for its clarity. The region experiences little cloud cover and is one of the most UV transparent lakes in the world.”
Well UzUrBrain
You are ignoring the very real problems the Ukraine is still facing in Chernobyl.
That cover they want to put around Fukushima is never going to last against the weather…
You also ignore how many people have been /will be afflicted with radiation related illnesses, etc.
In Germany they decided to shut down all nuclear power plants because of serious dafety concerns.
But I suppose you will be telling me now that all Germans are brainless.
I would very strongly advise you to use your brain.
HenryP – You are ignoring the very real problems the Ukraine is still facing in Chernobyl.
No I am not! Look at how healthy the flora, fauna is in the area around Chernobyl. Without a doubt, the area is better off now than 30 years ago. All of your concerns are hysteria and fear mongering from the anti-nuks. Many countries and cities already have radiation levels exceeding those around Chernobyl (some tenfold) with NO ill effect. Some of these cities have been around for several thousand years AND the population has lower cancer rates than the rest of the world. LOOK IT UP.
HenryP – That cover they want to put around Fukushima is never going to last against the weather…
Who cares if it does not last that long it is only temporary. The radiation levels around the plant(s) are low enough that the workers can have that cleaned up in ten to twenty years WITH NO ILL EFFECTS UPON THEM – NONE. LOOK IT UP.
Henryp – You also ignore how many people have been /will be afflicted with radiation related illnesses, etc.
No I AM NOT, Those were factored into my predictions.
In HenryP – Germany they decided to shut down all nuclear power plants because of serious safety concerns.
That may be the excuse but it has NO provable scientific basis. Like I said, If you are really worried about safety and deaths, look at all of the deaths caused by all of the other (UN) safe forms of energy like coal, gas, oil, wind, solar, hydro, fill in the blank. All have a worse record than nuclear. If you are really afraid of radiation then you better get some facts on what is released when you burn any fossil fuel. And that means Coal, Oil, Natural Gas, etc. Most areas where they mine coal are near areas that have high concentrations of Radon. Where does that Radon go when the coal it is in is burnt? Up the stack and into the Air. It is a proven verifiable fact, that More radiation is released from the typical coal plant than any regulatory agency allows a nuclear power plant to release in a month. LOOK IT UP So how much MORE radiation are the Germans going to receive? You do the math. The same argument can be made, but to a lesser extent, for Oil and Natural Gas. LOOK IT UP.
HenryP – But I Suppose you will be telling me now that all Germans are brainless.
That is your call. I guess they just want to breathe more Radiation or someone has been lying to them.
HenryP – I would very strongly advise you to use your brain.
I do and have. Start looking up the real data. It appears you have a problem with someone telling you something that does not fit your impression of your TRUTH?
This should read
It is a proven verifiable fact, that More radiation is released from the typical coal plant in a day than any regulatory agency allows a nuclear power plant to release in a month.
The ” in a day ” got accidently deleted.
Henry@UzUrBrain
Sorry, I have been an ANTINUKE from the time I heard about the waste. Why don’t you tell everyone here for how long future generations are going to have to sit with all that hazardous waste?
You have still not taken notice of the fact that the Ukraine has asked assistance from the AEC (and their neighbours and Europe) to contain the problem there. It has to be re-encapsulated and they don’t have the money for it….THEY ARE ASKING FOR MONEY…. How much can it cost to do that, IF A WHOLE COUNTRY CANNOT EVEN PAY FOR IT?
In Japan the clean up cost and COMPENSATION cost is escalating to such tremendous figures, that even Japan has decided it will not build any more new nuclear plants.
So I suppose they are also a bunch of nutters like me and the Germans?
Please, get wise.
I donot leave you without a plan for better and cleaner energy,
http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/nuclear-energy-not-save-and-sound
Myrrh says>:
>UV gets transmitted through water.
No it does not. It absorbs in the UV, meaning if it hits the liquid it will get re-radiated.
You cannot see that happening because UV is invisible.
>Do you mean refraction here or reflection?
I mean deflection also called back radiation or re-radiation.
Henry says:
Let me try again.
Read this paper. It is about what they measured in the near infra red from a number of gases after it bounced back to us from the moon.
http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/0004-637X/644/1/551/64090.web.pdf?request-id=76e1a830-4451-4c80-aa58-4728c1d646ec
For example, they measured the re-radiation from CO2 as it bounced back to earth from the moon. So the direction was sun-earth-moon-earth. Follow the green line in fig. 6, bottom. Note that it already starts at 1.2 um, then one peak at 1.4 um, then various peaks at 1.6 um and 3 big peaks at 2 um. You can see that it all comes back to us via the moon in fig. 6 top & fig. 7. Note that even methane cools the atmosphere by re-radiating in the 2.2 to 2.4 um range.
Now, in your own words, tell me by what processes you say it is possible for us to measure this unless using words like deflection, back radiation or re-radiation of light at certain stretches of wavelengths by the H2O or CH4 or CO2 molecules?
UzUrBrain – I’m not getting involved in this argument and this will be my only post on it. I’m not at all against nuclear power plants, though I’d have preferred they hadn’t gone down the ‘and we can make bombs as a by-product route’.., there were other options that could have been developed.
I think you’re putting to much faith in ‘reports’ which, after Chernobyl first came from a totalitarian system designed to penalise proper record keeping, and currently, far too great powers by the nuclear industry to fudge data. I’ve read some of their current reports, when you look into it they do such things as make comparisons between towns that were never badly exposed to the radiation. They are produced the Nuclear Industry – what do you expect them to tell you?
I can only suggest you have a look for alternative views about this, from people who were there, for example:
http://www.chernobyl-international.org/natalia.html
“Although one can question the statistics, the few figures that everyone agrees on are, however, enough to knock even the toughest off their feet. At the time of the accident there were around 7 million people living in the contaminated areas, in Belarus, the Ukraine and Russia. Of these there were 3 million children. Today there are around 5.5 million people, of whom children constitute just over 1 million, who still live in the contaminated zones. In other words, after 20 years only around 22% have moved away, while the remaining 78% are affected by the radioactivity on a daily basis. Even a small radioactive effect can cause severe organ and brain damage in a foetus. In Belarus alone the number of heart attacks has quadrupleaccumulation of radioactive caesium in the heart muscle.
Natalia stops by a child whose legs are folded under his body and cannot be used for walking. The child needs intensive physiotherapy, but where can one start when there are 150 children in the orphanage?
Showing us the child makes Natalia think about her own family’s problems. ”My joints are painful,” she says. ”My daughter also has pains in her legs. She is 20 years old. Sometimes she cries because of the pain. She’s afraid of going to hospital. First of all she wouldn’t go to hospital and we tried every possible alternative. But in the end we had to take her there. She couldn’t lift her hand. She was given a lot of injections. It helped, but I don’t know how long it will last. The autumn is the worst time. The doctors say that the problems with our joints are directly related to the radioactivity. I spoke to a surgeon who said that it’s the same for everyone living in the Gomel region.” ”
http://www.chernobyl-international.org/galina.html
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/features/chernobyl-deaths-180406/
You, with respect, don’t know how many people died from the Chernobyl fallout, you don’t know how many were deformed, you don’t know how many people are suffering ill health now. I shall lose that respect if I hear you parrot the 50 died and radiation is good for you memes…
http://www.prisonplanet.com/harmless-chernobyl-radiation-killed-nearly-one-million-people.html
“Their findings are in contrast to estimates by the World Health Organization and the International Atomic Energy Agency that initially said only 31 people had died among the “liquidators,” those approximately 830,000 people who were in charge of extinguishing the fire at the Chernobyl reactor and deactivation and cleanup of the site.
The book finds that by 2005, between 112,000 and 125,000 liquidators had died.”
http://www.ratical.org/radiation/Chernobyl/C1Mcasualties.html
“They died of multiple different kinds of diseases from cancer, to heart disease, brain damage, thyroid cancer. But many, many children died in utero, in other words before they were born or died of birth defects after they were born.”
And, the use of the by-product – depleted Uranium, in Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia from the Nato bombings –
Depleted Uranium Radioactive Contamination In Iraq: An Overview
by Prof Souad N. Al-Azzawi
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=3116
http://www.serendipity.li/nato/du.htm
Just bear this in mind when you read reports produced by governments and the industry:
“Janette Sherman: One of the most fascinating things that I learned when I was re-writing the text of the book and going through all the data, was [that] one of the scientists, Bandazhevsky, had done a study that showed that the Cesium-137 levels in children were the same as he had found in test animals. [2] And were causing heart damage. He reported this. And for his work, he was put in prison.”
http://www.ratical.org/radiation/Chernobyl/C1Mcasualties.html
If you have any real true concern for the wellbeing of mankind, and I mean ALL of mankind, not just the industrial nations then please look at the following websites, they are not deniers, one is a fanatical warmest, and all lean on the AGW side of the fence. They all have ideas as how clean nuclear power can be used.
http://theresilientearth.com/
http://atomicinsights.com/
http://cravenspowertosavetheworld.com/
There are several methods of using CLEAN Nuclear power with about 1/100 of the waste/used fuel. France reuses their fuel over and over, and over…. Other countries are trying to prevent the proliferation of bomb material and thus do not do this – the height of absurdity. Fast fission reactors also have less used fuel. In fact there is enough used reactor fuel right now to power all of the energy needs for 100 years! And it is being stored in spent fuel pools like the ones that caused problems in Japan. Explain the logic of that. No spent fuel pool – no problem. But the antinukes want a problem so we can have a life like in Soylent Green.
If you really believe in AGW thane you MUST reduce the CO2 level. So far ALL of the means they propose of producing energy produce more CO2 than Nuclear. The studies are on the internet. The only other choice is everyone moving to the temperate climates, and existing on wind/solar WHEN it is available. I will let you figure out when and how much of this unreliable power there is and how much life it can support. No cars, No trucks, Sailboats not steamships, They will have to make exceptions for tractors, or you could have your own garden – and how many people can do that? All-in-all I guestamate that that will support about 1 billion people. Now, who decides who gets to live or die. Have you seen the movie Soylent Green? Those tactics at might help.
From HenryP on February 27, 2012 at 11:06 am:
I know how emotionally charged positions about nuclear power can be. So I’ll just drop this link about the CANDU reactors:
http://www.nuclearfaq.ca/index.html
This section should be of interest to you: