Refutation of Stable Thermal Equilibrium Lapse Rates

Guest post by Robert G. Brown

Duke University Physics Department

The Problem

In 2003 a paper was published in Energy & Environment by Hans Jelbring that asserted that a gravitationally bound, adiabatically isolated shell of ideal gas would exhibit a thermodynamically stable adiabatic lapse rate. No plausible explanation was offered for this state being thermodynamically stable – indeed, the explanation involved a moving air parcel:

An adiabatically moving air parcel has no energy loss or gain to the surroundings. For example, when an air parcel ascends the temperature has to decrease because of internal energy exchange due to the work against the gravity field.

This argument was not unique to Jelbring (in spite of his assertion otherwise):

The theoretically deducible influence of gravity on GE has rarely been acknowledged by climate change scientists for unknown reasons.

The adiabatic lapse rate was and is a standard feature in nearly every textbook on physical climatology. It is equally well known there that it is a dynamical consequence of the atmosphere being an open system. Those same textbooks carefully demonstrate that there is no lapse rate in an ideal gas in a gravitational field in thermal equilibrium because, as is well known, thermal equilibrium is an isothermal state; nothing as simple as gravity can function like a “Maxwell’s Demon” to cause the spontaneous stable equilibrium separation of gas molecules into hotter and colder reservoirs.

Spontaneous separation of a reservoir of gas into stable sub-reservoirs at different temperatures violates the second law of thermodynamics. It is a direct, literal violation of the refrigerator statement of the second law of thermodynamics as it causes and maintains such a separation without the input of external work. As is usually the case, violation of the refrigeration statement allows heat engines to be constructed that do nothing but convert heat into work – violating the “no perfectly efficient heat engine” statement as well.

The proposed adiabatic thermal lapse rate in EEJ is:

image

where g is the gravitational acceleration (presumed approximately constant throughout the spherical shell) and cp  is the heat capacity per kilogram of the particular “ideal” gas at constant pressure. The details of the arguments for an adiabatic lapse rate in open systems is unimportant, nor does it matter what cp is as long as it is not zero or infinity.

What matters is that EEJ asserts that image  in stable thermodynamic equilibrium.

The purpose of this short paper is to demonstrate that such a system is not, in fact, in thermal equilibrium and that the correct static equilibrium distribution of gas in the system is the usual isothermal distribution.

The Failure of Equilibrium

image

In figure 1 above, an adiabatically isolated column of an ideal gas is illustrated. According to EEJ, this gas spontaneously equilibrates into a state where the temperature at the bottom of the column Tb is strictly greater than the temperature Tt at the top of the column. The magnitude of the difference, and the mechanism proposed for this separation are irrelevant, save to note that the internal conductivity of the ideal gas is completely neglected. It is assumed that the only mechanism for achieving equilibrium is physical (adiabatic) mixing of the air, mixing that in some fundamental sense does not allow for the fact that even an ideal gas conducts heat.

Note well the implication of stability. If additional heat is added to or removed from this container, it will always distribute itself in such a way as to maintain the lapse rate, which is a constant independent of absolute temperature. If the distribution of energy in the container is changed, then gravity will cause a flow of heat that will return the distribution of energy to one with Tb > Tt . For an ideal gas in an adiabatic container in a gravitational field, one will always observe the gas in this state once equilibrium is established, and while the time required to achieve equilibrium is not given in EEJ, it is presumably commensurate with convective mixing times of ordinary gases within the container and hence not terribly long.

Now imagine that the bottom of the container and top of the container are connected with a solid conductive material, e.g. a silver wire (adiabatically insulated except where it is in good thermal contact with the gas at the top and bottom of the container) of length  L . Such a wire admits the thermally driven conduction of heat according to Fourier’s Law:

image

where λ  is the thermal conductivity of silver, A is the cross-sectional area of the wire, and ΔT=TbTt . This is an empirical law, and in no way depends on whether or not the wire is oriented horizontally or vertically (although there is a small correction for the bends in the wire above if one actually solves the heat equation for the particular geometry – this correction is completely irrelevant to the argument, however).

As one can see in figure 2, there can be no question that heat will flow in this silver wire. Its two ends are maintained at different temperatures. It will therefore systematically transfer heat energy from the bottom of the air column to the top via thermal conduction through the silver as long as the temperature difference is maintained.

image

One now has a choice:

  • If EEJ is correct, the heat added to the top will redistribute itself to maintain the adiabatic lapse rate. How rapidly it does so compared to the rate of heat flow through the silver is irrelevant. The inescapable point is that in order to do so, there has to be net heat transfer from the top of the gas column to the bottom whenever the temperature of the top and bottom deviate from the adiabatic lapse rate if it is indeed a thermal equilibrium state.
  • Otherwise, heat will flow from the bottom to the top until they are at the same temperature. At this point the top and the bottom are indeed in thermal equilibrium.

It is hopefully clear that the first of these statements is impossible. Heat will flow in this system forever; it will never reach thermal equilibrium. Thermal equilibrium for the silver no longer means the same thing as thermal equilibrium for the gas – heat only fails to flow in the silver when it is isothermal, but heat only fails to flow in the gas when it exhibits an adiabatic lapse in temperature that leaves it explicitly not isothermal. The combined system can literally never reach thermal equilibrium.

Of course this is nonsense. Any such system would quickly reach thermal equilibrium – one where the top and bottom of the gas are at an equal temperature. Nor does one require a silver wire to accomplish this. The gas is perfectly capable of conducting heat from the bottom of the container to the top all by itself!

One is then left with an uncomfortable picture of the gas moving constantly – heat must be adiabatically convected downward to the bottom of the container in figure 1 in ongoing opposition to the upward directed flow of heat due to the fact that Fourier’s Law applies to the ideal gas in such a way that equilibrium is never reached!

Of course, this will not happen. The gas in the container will quickly reach equilibrium. What will that equilibrium look like? The answer is contained in almost any introductory physics textbook. Take an ideal gas in thermal equilibrium:

image

where N is the number of molecules in the volume V, k is Boltzmann’s constant, and T is the temperature in degrees Kelvin. n is the number of moles of gas in question and R is the ideal gas constant. If we assume a constant temperature in the adiabatically isolated container, one gets the following formula for the density of an ideal gas:

image

where M is the molar mass, the number of kilograms of the gas per mole.

The formula for that describes the static equilibrium of a fluid is unchanged by the compressibility (or lack thereof) of the fluid – for the fluid to be in force balance the variation of the pressure must be:

image

(so that the pressure decreases with height, assuming a non-negative density). If we multiply both sides by dz and integrate, now we get:

image

Exponentiating both sides of this expression, we get the usual exponential isothermal lapse in the pressure, and by extension the density:

image

where P0 is the pressure at z=0 (the bottom of the container).

This describes a gas that is manifestly:

  1. In static force equilibrium. There is no bulk transport of the gas as buoyancy and gravity are in perfect balance throughout.
  2. In thermal equilibrium. There is no thermal gradient in the gas to drive the conduction of heat.

If this system is perturbed away from equilibrium, it will quickly return to this combination of static and thermal equilibrium, as both are stable. Even in the case of a gas with an adiabatic lapse rate (e.g. the atmosphere) remarkably small deviations are observed from the predicted P(z) one gets treating the atmosphere as an ideal gas. An adiabatically isolated gas initially prepared in a state with an adiabatic lapse rate will thermally equilibrate due to the internal conduction of heat within the gas by all mechanisms and relax to precisely this state.

Conclusion

As we can see, it is an introductory physics textbook exercise to demonstrate that an adiabatically isolated column of gas in a gravitational field cannot have a thermal gradient maintained by gravity. The same can readily be demonstrated by correctly using thermodynamics at a higher level or by using statistical mechanics, but it is not really necessary. The elementary argument already suffices to show violation of both the zeroth and second laws of thermodynamics by the assertion itself.

In nature, the dry adiabatic lapse rate of air in the atmosphere is maintained because the system is differentially heated from below causing parcels of air to constantly move up and down. Reverse that to a cooling, like those observed during the winter in the air above Antarctica, and the lapse rate readily inverts. Follow the air column up above the troposphere and the lapse rate fails to be observed in the stratosphere, precisely where vertical convection stops dominating heat transport. The EEJ assertion, that the dry adiabatic lapse rate alone explains the bulk of so-called “greenhouse warming” of the atmosphere as a stable feature of a bulk equilibrium gas, is incorrect.

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January 24, 2012 12:20 pm

Temperature depends on the altitude, because more dense atmosphere means more molecules hit the thermometer’s mercury. To assign this to gravity is maybe not correct, but truth is the gravity causes denser, and thus warmer air.
When talking about Moon SURFACE temperature, what is the daily temperature there in 2m altitude?

Alan Millar
January 24, 2012 12:22 pm

“MaxL says:
January 24, 2012 at 11:38 am
I have a question along this topic which will likely show my ignorance. If gravity alone cannot induce a thermal gradient in a gas, how then are stars formed from gases where there is only gravity as an external force?”
Gravity can indeed do that. However, that is perfectly allowable under the second Law of Thermodynamics if entropy is increased in another system.
Like a fridge I can decrease its entropy but only by increasing the entropy of the room it sits in with the waste heat. Overall the entropy of the combined system will have increased and the second Law is preserved.
Stars are part of the universe and you can be certain that overall entropy is increasing with the flow of time even if parts of the system are seeing entropy decreasing.
The arguement here is Jelbring is trying to say he can prevent entropy increasing in a CLOSED system whilst work is being performed.
There is a problem with Gedanken experiments, they can allow you to construct something that seems viable and yet breaches agreed physical laws.
I could invent a closed system that was initially composed of a diffuse cloud of particles in
thermodynamic equilibrium. Now that system would be near maximum entropy. However the addition of gravity starts to cause the particles to compress and voila I now have a system like the solar system or a galaxy or the universe even and I have reduced the entropy of the system without the addition of energy or increasing the entropy of another system.
Perhaps someone could say that this proves gravity can reverse the flow of entropy in a closed system and the Thermodynamic laws need revising.
However, in the real universe we inhabit we cannot create such a system in such an inital state. Perhaps a supreme, all powerful being could but I am not holding my breath! The existence of such a being would invalidate all known physical laws in any event.
So we have to be careful with gedanken experiments. I tend to the view that if such a system is proposed, that is in breach of thermodynamic laws, that it is either in error or could not ever be created in the universe we inhabit.
Alan

Editor
January 24, 2012 12:23 pm

Folks, a lot of you here don’t seem to get it. The beauty of Robert’s proof is that there is only one question in it—does heat flow forever in the silver wire or not?
So all of your claims of deep insights into where the joules are, and all of you talking about some mechanism or other that you are absolutely sure will make the air temperature at the top and bottom different, that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROOF. The proof is about the outcome, what the mechanism is that you say results in that outcome doesn’t matter.
IF you are correct and any of your hotly defended mechanisms work, gravity will make the air at the bottom of the tall cylinder warmer than the air at the top. (Your claim, not mine, just following it to see where it leads.)
IF there is a temperature difference in the air top to bottom, heat will flow in the silver wire. Gravity can’t stop that.
IF heat flows in the silver wire, it will move heat from the bottom to the top, and thus cool the bottom air and warm the top air. Duh.
IF you are correct and any of your hotly defended mechanisms work, gravity will once again make the air at the bottom warmer than the air at the top, and the cycle will continue forever.
So forget about your mechanisms, forget about the joules, forget about the lapse rates and how they are maintained, and just ANSWER THE FREAKIN’ QUESTION:
Will heat flow in the silver wire forever?
Me, I say no, and I say Roberts thought experiment elegantly proves that the answer is no.
w.

Alan Millar
January 24, 2012 12:26 pm

Should have said ‘decreasing’ in my third para of course. Doh!!
Now if one of these new hotrod physicists can explain how and when Saturn dies in the Jelbring universe.
Alan

markus
January 24, 2012 12:29 pm

They just don’t get it. Or, as Bono would say, “stuck in a moment we can’t get out off.”
To the tune of whatever ditty you like.
—————————————————————————————–
I’m a little radiation, radiation, radiation, I’m a little radiation, all day long
Down through the mesopause , mesopause , mesopause, down through the , menopause, all day long.
Down through tropopause, tropopause, tropopause, down through,tropopause, all day long.
Now I’m a little kinetic, kinetic, kinetic I’m a little kinetic, all day long
Up through the pressure, pressure, pressure, up through the pressure, all day long.
Back to a little radiation, radiation, radiation, I’m a little radiation, all day long.
—————————————————————————————————————————-
Consider how a refrigerator works – 2 thermostats going down, and a heat pump going up.
What happens to pressured gas through a condenser and then a separation device?
Co2 forcing, what dribble.
Pick a system – greenhouse or refrigerator.

hotrod (larry L)
January 24, 2012 12:53 pm

just ANSWER THE FREAKIN’ QUESTION:
Will heat flow in the silver wire forever?

Yes but to no avail, as the heat flow would be exactly canceled by adiabatic heating of the gas at the bottom of the tube.
The model above postulates only a temperature gradient from top to bottom in the tube but leaves out the pressure gradient developed in a sufficiently long vertical tube in a gravity field.
In the case of a sufficiently long tube, where both gradients exist, the silver wire would try to transport heat from the warmer bottom of the tube to the cooler top of the tube as it must due to thermodynamic laws. The gas at the top of the tube would be warmed (thus increasing its pressure slightly (ideal gas laws temperature change constant volume tube) and like a piston this pressure increase would propagate down the tube at the local speed of sound in the gas causing adiabatic heating of the gas in each subsequent layer until it reached the bottom of the tube, instantly replacing the heat lost to the silver wire.
Net effect – no heat loss from the bottom of the tube, and no net heat gain to the top of the tube as the two actions will exactly cancel each other out. The gas in the tube would never reach thermal equilibrium but would be in equilibrium energetically (PE+KE)
Larry

Q. Daniels
January 24, 2012 12:55 pm

Willis wrote:
Will heat flow in the silver wire forever?
If you extract energy from the system, it will shut down as the entire system cools. Energy is conserved. If you extract energy, then it has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is the thermal energy of the system.
If you do not extract energy, then yes, it will.
It’s a terrible design for such. See my comment above.
You seem to have rejected Graeff’s work as being insufficient proof.
What would you consider a sufficient proof?

Editor
January 24, 2012 1:02 pm

Alan Millar says:

January 24, 2012 at 12:26 pmShould have said ‘decreasing’ in my third para of course. Doh!!
Now if one of these new hotrod physicists can explain how and when Saturn dies in the Jelbring universe.
Alan

[I think I fixed it, there were two, better check and see if I got it right. -w.]

Graeme W
January 24, 2012 1:02 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
January 24, 2012 at 12:23 pm
Folks, a lot of you here don’t seem to get it. The beauty of Robert’s proof is that there is only one question in it—does heat flow forever in the silver wire or not?,

Well… I don’t know the answer, but I do need to point out that a closed system with a changing level of kinetic energy in different parts doesn’t violate conservation of energy. Consider on object in an elliptical orbit around a gravitational point source. Its kinetic energy changes as it orbits, but the system is in ‘equilibrium’ with no external input of energy.

Editor
January 24, 2012 1:04 pm

Q. Daniels says:
January 24, 2012 at 12:55 pm

Willis wrote:

Will heat flow in the silver wire forever?

… If you do not extract energy, then yes, it will.
It’s a terrible design for such. See my comment above.

I hate it when my perpetual motion machines are poorly designed …
w.

Q. Daniels
January 24, 2012 1:13 pm

Willis wrote:
I hate it when my perpetual motion machines are poorly designed …
A curious thing. I’ve noticed that engineering tends to be particularly bad when people want it to fail.

MDR
January 24, 2012 1:14 pm

@Willis
Heat is indeed conducted upward in the column forever. Why? There is a temperature gradient, and as long as there is a temperature gradient, conduction will occur. It doesn’t matter that the conduction is via the wire, or within the gas itself.
It sounds like you are expecting the temperature profile would eventually smooth out [i.e., become isothermal] over time, and indeed if there we no gravity this is exactly what would happen – the gas would become isothermal, isobaric, and have a constant density.
But in the presence of gravity, you have to take into account the potential energy imparted to the gas as a function of height. Gravity has dome more work on the gas at the bottom of the column than at the top. By virtue of being at the bottom, some of that gas’ gravitational potential energy has been spent [that is, gravity has done work on that gas parcel]. As a result, with no other outlet, this work energy has been converted into thermal energy. This is what the First Law of Thermodynamics is saying. Thus, the temperature of the gas at the bottom is higher than the gas at the top in the presence of gravity, and indeed this is a stable arrangement in thermodynamic equilibrium.

January 24, 2012 1:28 pm

Willis Eschenbach: “So forget about your mechanisms, forget about the joules, forget about the lapse rates and how they are maintained, and just ANSWER THE FREAKIN’ QUESTION:
Will heat flow in the silver wire forever?”
As I said explicitly and a couple have implied (by noting that Dr. Brown has begged the question), heat will not even begin to flow, despite the temperature gradient, if that temperature gradient is the one that Velasco et al. specify, at least if Velasco et al. are correct.
As I mentioned above, this is not hard to understand if you look at heat transport as a diffusion phenomenon, i.e., as flow in accordance with the laws of probability from a region characterized by a higher concentration (of fast molecules or fast electrons) to one with a lower concentration. Superimposed upon that diffusion flow is a contrary drift flow from gravity that cancels it out and thereby maintains a gradient.
I’m told that an analogous effect occurs when a semiconductor diode is fabricated. At the instant two differently doped semiconductor materials join to make a diode, there exists across the resultant junction a hole gradient in response to which a cross-junction hole current begins to flow that tends to eliminate the gradient. But that current stops flowing before the gradient disappears. The reason is that the charge thereby transported sets up an electric field that opposes the cross-junction hole current. So the electric field maintains a gradient that the laws of probability (diffusion) would otherwise eliminate.

kdk33
January 24, 2012 1:29 pm

Brian,
What is the lapse rate in the ocean?

markus
January 24, 2012 1:35 pm

Am I one of the boys yet Willis?
Regards,
Markus.

Jordan
January 24, 2012 1:39 pm

Gulp! I have my doubts about the above analysis.
IMO, the tidy demonstration of the exponential pressure profile does not advance either position. It is merely astatesment of the profile to expect at isothermal conditions (i.e. “if we assume constant temperature”).
The crux of the issue is whether the thought experiment justifies the invitation to accept the assumption.
The silver may conduct energy, but this doesn’t lead to the conclusion that we have devised PM as there is no energy leaving the system (and no case is made to say that it could be removed indefinitely). The container has a mass of molecules jostling around forever (so long as we don’t take their energy away). The silver looks like an extension to the container – a somewhat circuitous route in which to carry out their mutual exchanges.
If (for now) all moleculecular collisions were to transact a fixed quantum of energy, the flow through the silver (‘Q’) would be limited by the frequency of exchanges at the lower pressure end. Any additional collisions at the higher pressure end of the silver would have no potential to increase ‘Q’. It is then unclear whether the silver makes any difference to an assumed isothermal end state.
If we remove the fixed quantum constraint, things may improve for ‘Q’, as the lower frequency transactions at the low pressure end may then be more energetic. But all this seems to be saying is that the silver may be a better conductor than the gas (a preferred route for mutual jostling). This alone doesn’t support the leap to an isothermal end state any more than leaving the gas to its own devices.
Finally, there is the significant point that the lower pressure molecules have the greatest total energy in the isothermal state. It is this question that makes me reluctant to go with the assumption.

markus
January 24, 2012 1:40 pm

Sorry about the rapid fire.
Mr Willis Eschenbach,
Sir, you have done us a great service, you have helped us to reason.
Thank you very much.

January 24, 2012 1:41 pm

I misspoke slightly when I said that heat will not even begin to flow in the wire. Whether it does or not initially depends on the temperature distribution that prevails in the wire before it is connected across the gas column. And there may be an initial transfer of energy between the air and the wire. But heat flow will stop before the temperature gradient disappears.

Editor
January 24, 2012 1:42 pm

When I illustrated my post called “Perpetuum Mobile“, I chose a photo of a Civil War era perpetual motion machine, because that’s what they are in my mind—a relic of a time long ago when people hadn’t grasped that such a machine is an impossibility.
However, I’m starting to see that perpetual motion still maintains its historical death grip on the scientific illiterati. And I can kinda see why, everyone wants something for nothing.
And truly, people, I hate to bust your bubble and maybe I can’t do so in any case, but the heat can’t flow in the silver wire forever. That would be perpetual motion, and the laws of thermodynamics don’t allow that.
Look, I know that we all break various laws all the time, someone once estimated that Americans break one to three laws every day.
But the laws of thermodynamics aren’t like that. They are not just good ideas, or regulations put in place to protect us from each other or from ourselves.
As far as anyone has ever been able to determine (and lots have tried) those laws simply can’t be broken. That’s why they are called the Laws of Thermodynamics, and not the Good Ideas of Thermodynamics. Those laws say we can’t have a perpetual motion machine driven by gravity.
So if you want to continue to believe that heat will flow through the silver wire forever and ever without end, and that the mystery power that will make it do that is gravity, or lapse rates, or unicorns, or density-driven molecular interactions, or “gravito-thermal forces” or anything else, be my guest. As I pointed out with my Civil War machine, that mistake has a long and storied history, you’re not the first to believe in energetic fairies and Maxwell’s demons.
Just don’t expect your belief, that gravity can do continuous unending work forever and ever amen, to be widely shared in the scientific community …
w.

Alan Millar
January 24, 2012 1:47 pm

“MDR says:
January 24, 2012 at 1:14 pm
Thus, the temperature of the gas at the bottom is higher than the gas at the top in the presence of gravity, and indeed this is a stable arrangement in thermodynamic equilibrium.”
So MDR
A gas giant planet, like Saturn, radiates more than twice the amount of radiation than it receives from the Sun. Presumably this little gravity induced energy engine is at work here according to you.
How do these planets ever die, if gravity is constantly maintaining a heat gradient in the atmosphere? The Sun will die and become a cold white dwarf with no solar wind to blow any atmosphere away.
What is going to kill these gas giants?
If gravity is constantly maintaining hotter gases at the bottom then convection will move gases around and therefore we seem to have an everlasting living planet.
What kills it and when, if Jelbring is correct?
Alan

Q. Daniels
January 24, 2012 1:49 pm

Willis wrote:
Just don’t expect your belief, that gravity can do continuous unending work forever and ever amen, to be widely shared in the scientific community …
Such a demonstration would be worth at least a handshake from Carl Gustaf.

MDR
January 24, 2012 1:49 pm

@Willis
Implicit in this discussion is that gravity is an unvarying external force being applied to the column of gas. That is what provides the [apparently infinite] source of energy. The difference between this scenario and a perpetual motion machine is that, for a perpetual motion machine to work, it cannot rely on infinite external sources of energy.
Given that one is assuming here that gravity exists as an external agent, and is capable of doing work on the gas, I stand my my comments above.

MDR
January 24, 2012 2:07 pm

Millar
Sorry, I can’t directly answer your question. But it’s probably worth considering that Saturn is probably not in thermodynamic equilibrium [it has seasons, weather, storms, etc.]. It may in fact still be settling, that is, not enough time has passed since Saturn’s formation to reach an equilibrium state where the heavier matter is underneath the lighter matter. If settling is occurring, gravity would still be doing work on the gas, converting gravitational potential energy into other forms of energy, and some of this energy may radiate into space making it appear that Saturn has an internal heat source.

glen martin
January 24, 2012 2:07 pm

“Willis Eschenbach says:
January 24, 2012 at 12:23 pm
Folks, a lot of you here don’t seem to get it. The beauty of Robert’s proof is that there is only one question in it—does heat flow forever in the silver wire or not?
.
.
.
IF there is a temperature difference in the air top to bottom, heat will flow in the silver wire. Gravity can’t stop that.”
Actually it can and does, heat in the wire is being transmitted via the interaction of moving particles, gravity will cause the particles to slow slightly as its height increases thus slightly less energy is will be transferred to the atom above a particular atom than was received from the atom below it. This results in a gravitationally induced thermal gradient in the wire.

Ged
January 24, 2012 2:10 pm

@Willis,
Gravity doesn’t make the air warmer at the surface, it makes the air -colder- above the surface.
A silver wire has a high thermal conductivity, so it’s easy for heat to flow through its length. But what would happen if you stretched that silver wire over a mile? 12 miles? Would the heat flux be the same over its length? No. You would get microdomains, fluctuations where some areas get randomly distributed with more heat than others, and those domains will flow around. You can see this easily with objects that have very, very low thermal conductivity.
You have microlattice vibrations. But also realize gas is -not a solid lattice-.
I don’t understand, Willis. Before hand you were so concerned with the conservation of energy. Now are you claiming you can take a molecule with a certain kinetic energy (which is what temperature is a measurement of), and raise it 17 kilometers above the Earth (increasing its potential energy by 4664 Joules if we’re talking about a mole of N2) without inputting more energy, and have it maintain that same kinetic energy, that same temperature?
Answer that question, Willis.

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