UPDATE: Monckton offers apology, see below
Given the recent elevated rhetoric in Australia, the claims of death threats, and the media suggestions of skeptics getting tattooed and gassed, I was dismayed to see this in news.acom.au:
h/t to WUWT reader AdderW for the link to the above story.
Since I was invited to tour and speak in Australia last year at many of the same venues, I feel I should comment on this.
Alarmists in Australia are doing enough damage to themselves with over the top rhetoric. We don’t need to weaken our position on our interpretations of the data uncertainty and the science problems by committing rhetorical suicide.
Nobody has ever won an argument by invoking Godwins Law.
While Lord Monckton is free to speak his mind however he wishes, it is my opinion that this has no place in the debate, nor do the recent ugly calls from Australian columnists Richard Glover and Jill Singer.
I’m certainly not blameless in the issue of civility in the climate debate, as I’ve had my moments where I’ve rattled off an angry comment missive or a post that was misinterpreted that I have later regretted. There’s plenty of “heat of the moment” examples of that on both sides.
However, putting swastikas in planned public powerpoint presentations, and linking that by name to a person, is in my opinion, way over the top and in very bad form and totally hijacks and negates the important messages elsewhere in the presentation.
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UPDATE: Lord Monckton responds in comments
Monckton of Brenchley says:
I have been a very bad Lord. My remarks about Professor Garnaut were unparliamentary and unstatesmanlike. Mea maxima culpa. I have apologized to him unreservedly, and I deserve the criticisms that Anthony and many commentators have posted here. Sorry to you all. I shall try to keep my cool in future. – M of B
He says similar things in this Telegraph article:
Lord Monckton has since apologised for the remarks.
Speaking to The Daily Telegraph, he said: “I have written to Ross Garnaut to withdraw unreservedly and to apologise humbly. What I said about his opinions was unparliamentary and unstatesmanlike.”
Just for balance and right of reply, here is what Professor Garnaut said in response to Monckton.
“”I’m not going to comment on myself. Other people can look at my life and career and make their own judgments,” he said.
“I think Nazism and symbols of Nazism are deadly serious.
“Most Australians would think that anyone who uses those terms and symbols inappropriately is putting themselves outside the boundaries of civilised discourse.”
look up the australian fabian movement and there agenda it all fits in Gillard is a member along with other labour water melon heads
While the fascist aspect may have merits, the nazi jibe is way out of line. We already have viscious ad hominem attacks going in one direction. Let’s not let this descend into needless tit for tat.
Moderate Republican says:
June 22, 2011 at 6:48 pm
James Sexton says @ur momisugly June 22, 2011 at 5:52 pm “In my view, to have a government demand that you accept a point of view without the ability to question the government, and the same government imposes a punitive taxation on their people to accomplish their goals, meets my definition of totalitarian socialism.”
Silly me, and here I though Australia was functionally a parliamentary democracy, putting aside the whole bit with the Queen for a moment.
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Yes, that may be why their a bit agitated lately. I think they’re under the same assumption. But, it appears that some (the ones in office) don’t seem to care much about all that.
Dang…..spell cops, Sorry!!!!! …..they’re ….not their.
I disagree with you on this one. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and looks like a duck then it is a duck.
I would ask everyone to read Naomi Wolf’s “10 steps to fascism”
Then ask yourself “where are we?”. Lord Monckton is correct and in his bluntness will put the issue front and center where it should be. If we can’t have dissent on a supposedly scientific issue then sieg heil it is.
The Gaian Prophet Lovelock
James Lovelock: Humans are too stupid to prevent climate change
http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=2156
One of the main obstructions to meaningful action is “modern democracy”, he added. “Even the best democracies agree that when a major war approaches, democracy must be put on hold for the time being. I have a feeling that climate change may be an issue as severe as a war. It may be necessary to put democracy on hold for a while.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/mar/29/james-lovelock-climate-change
James Lovelock – Population Reduction “max 1 billion”
Deep Ecology
Naess believes there are too many humans on the planet: “I think we must have no more than 100 million people if we are to have the variety of cultures we had one hundred years ago.” (Devall & Sessions, 1985)
http://www.deepecologysite.com/deep-ecology-7/
This article says that he has apologised.
http://theclimatescepticsparty.blogspot.com/
Christopher Monckton has apologised to the Sydney Morning Herald:
“Let me begin with an unreserved apology. In a recent lecture, I should not have described the opinions of Professor Ross Garnaut, the Australian Government’s climate economist, as “fascist”. I apologize humbly.
http://theclimatescepticsparty.blogspot.com/
For the non Australians: The last election was close run thing and Julia Gillard promised before the election NO CARBON TAX under a government I lead.
That’s why some of us are more than a little torqued about this. If Julia had said she would bring in a carbon tax instead of ruling it out she’d likely have lost and Tony Abbott would be PM.
She’s a bare faced liar and won’t give us the chance to vote on this before passing laws to implement it.
US readers may like to know that Australians don’t actually have many rights at all. We have nothing like the US Bill of Rights or Constitution. The Australian political ethos is that a government can do anything it can pass in parliament. Yes, that includes jailing or tattooing climate deniers or pretty much anything else.
Moderate Republican
Australia a democracy?Not according to the opposition
TONY Abbott has rejected the latest climate change report from economist Ross Garnaut as an assault on democracy, warning that it proposes to give a committee of unelected appointees the power to set tax rates.
“There is a developing democratic deficit here,” he said. “First of all the Prime Minister wasn’t upfront with the Australian public before the election. Now the idea that taxes in this country should effectively be set by people who are outside the parliament, and who are not accountable to the people, I think, is just odd.
“This just goes to show how out of control the government is on this whole climate change question.”
Later, the Opposition Leader continued his attack in question time, noting that the report said: “Australian households will ultimately bear the full cost of a carbon price”.
“So how can (the Prime Minister) continue to maintain that her tax only makes big polluters pay?” Mr Abbott asked parliament.
End
Maybe Monckton went too far,he did have a point but he should engage with people like Garnaut and Chubb,not denigrate them.
As for CM, wasn’t it Barry Goldwater who said “extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice” or something like that?
How we forget what liberties and freedom we once had.
Per Sun Tzu:
“To a surrounded enemy, you must leave a way of escape.”
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Without a route for escape, our nearly defeated foes will fight like cornered animals till their end.
If they desire an escape, let’s give them one.
I agree with you Anthony. Inflammatory language and imagery, while having entertainment value, does nothing to advance the discussion of science which is where the fight will be won by everyone provided that we are in honest pursuit of truth.
Dear Anthony,
I understand where you’re coming from – you have lived in a democracy throughout all of your life and you just can’t imagine that *anyone* or *anything* in your own country would be trying to establish anything else than democracy so you think that all these comparisons have to be inappropriate. But I have not. And in particular, the communists were equally sensitive about such comparisons.
Still, Stalin killed 20-40 million people, somewhat more than Hitler, and he was far from being the only one who did things of this caliber. However, the communists were pretending to be the universally “nice ones”. The matter of fact is that their system depended on state-organized terror in a similar way as the Nazi regime simply because it was suppressing some basic aspects of the human behavior. It was suppressing the human freedom in pretty much the same way as the Nazi regime – although for different detailed reasons – and it is simply not possible to do so in a kosher way.
The same has to be done by those who want to regulate the carbon cycle because every process we do is potentially involved in the carbon cycle. And this desire to control everyone and punish every deviation – especially the skeptics – is quite explicitly seen among many advocates of the global warming hysteria. One may always say that all those Jill Singers etc. are just extreme examples. Except that, unlike the proposed society by the skeptics which is really business-as-usual, their movement really *does* need things that violate democracy as well as human rights – and in some cases, they will need to kill people because many people just won’t peacefully give up their basic rights.
They’re not really doing so yet and I hope that they never will. But this was the situation of the Nazi party in the early 1930s, too. And they were using the same symbol. The symbols don’t symbolize just the nastiest things that the Nazi people did. Quite on the contrary, the symbols symbolize primarily the ideological patterns and approach to the society that made their regime possible. That’s what Lord Monckton finds among the environmentalists as well.
All the best
Luboš
As somebody who is a “mild alarmist”, if such a thing can exist, I have always thought Lord Monkton one of Britains eccentric inbred bores who should be ignored and he got far to much credence on here. I think the same about some of the extremists on the other side of the camp too. They should all shut up or at least try and see the other side of the coin, like I do by coming here.
It’s interesting that the Australians are painted as easy going party lovers, seems they have got into a bit of a state about climate change though which makes me chuckle, it is undermining their image !
Excuse me for injecting a dose of reality into the proceedings but what kind of conflict do you think we are engaged in?
What kind of people are sceptics in conflict with? Green is not and never has been green, it is in fact a fabricated illusion and cover for red fascism, the nature of this ecofascism is based on red fascism. If ecofascism prevails and is allowed to dominate does anyone think they will tolerate dissent and free speech and democratic values and gentlemanly conduct and some kind of Queensbury rules ‘invite a sceptic to tea’? Sooner or later we have to get to grips with the true nature of ecofascism, there are many who do not wish to see it.
Everything we have seen over the last ten years points to red fascism and its goal of suborning and absorbing the green movement into its political ideology. Look at the policies and aims and direction of the CAGW cult, they call it environmental justice, they call it sustainable economics. Look closely at the ultimate policy goals of ecofascism and they are identical to any Marxist revolutionary party or regime. Look at what they call us now, at the crimes they accuse us of, if they gain power does anyone think they will suddenly become our friends and sit down for a friendly chat about the merits of sceptical libertarianism? Listen to what they are saying and claiming now and then just think what they would do to us if they had the power.
A total and complete acceptance of Marxist theology and doctrines, a total hatred of capitalism, a total desire to enforce red doctrines and ideology on the masses, for their own good of course.The idea that the individual will must be erased in favour of the will of the masses as expressed and dictated by the new elite of course. The will of whole as opposed to the will of the individual, the notion that free will and liberty are poisonous and contrary to the good of the whole. The idea that the dissenting individual or group is the enemy of the whole, an enemy of the people, an enemy of the state, an anti social element and a counter revolutionary.
What is the nature of fascism? If you are a sceptic then ask yourself this question. If ecofascism prevails does anyone think the new reality will be any different from historys worst example of red or black fascism? Will there be an honoured place at the table for sceptics or a place in the camps? Come on folks, its reality time and a reality check. The people who have laboured so hard to clothe their red fascist ideology in green clothes hate sceptics, we are their mortal enemies, they cannot afford to allow libertarianism or scepticism or freedom of the individual to survive in their new world order, ecofascism cannot afford to have sceptics picking holes in their web of lies, they mean to finish us any way they can and by any means necessary.
If you look into the website of Socialists International for Member Parties International , you will find an alphabetical list of members:-
http://www.socialistinternational.org/viewArticle.cfm?ArticlePageID=931
In that list you will see the Member Party for Australia is the Australian Labor Party ( ALP)
As The Australian Labor Party is the government party – in minority, supported by members of the Australian Greens Party and two Independent members, it makes the Australian Government a Socialist government.
There should be no argument about this definition !
The Prime Minister, Ms Julia Gillard admits to being the secretary of a university Socialist group, but documents from later show that Ms Gillard was more involved than just a secretary. The Australian Socialist party disbanded and Ms Gillard became a member of the Australian Fabians. She also has a propensity to wear red.
Lord Monckton has used a symbol that is offensive for many people, to tag Prof Ross Garnaut, a person who through his attitude of “do what I say , not what I do” does not sit well for many Australians. (the Lihir Gold Mine tailngs into the river debacle, while Garnaut was CEO )
Possibly Christopher Monckton is saying “Wake up Australia, your too complacent “. He also used shock tactics to wake up the world about the UNFCCC Climate Change Treaty pre Copenhagen COP15 (Saint Paul Univ. Minnesota)
Czech President Vaclav Klaus will be in Australia early July, speaking at a couple of functions. Our Prime Minister has not shown any interest in meeting with this Head of State, possibly because he is a climate change sceptic and that he equates climate change dogma akin to communism.
This does get away from the science of climate. But with the science being parked with the use of “consensus science” and “the science is settled” through the MSM and many internet sites, as well as members of Al Gore’s The Climate Project showing up in the media (Cate Blanchett ), possibly the tools and the language must become a bit more vigorous.
It would take 50x Richard Lindzens to make any impression, then I doubt it would work.
Noelene I agree with you
Freedom of speech and divergence of opinion is required
From a brain washed Aussie
Reply to James Sexton
I’ve learnt much concerning the issues of climate science from so many contributors here, including yourself. Here in Australia the climate realists really are winning over many of the the constituency of the Labor Party against the ALP/Green”s carbon (sic) tax. The future of the Australian steel industry is at stake as the carbon (sic) tax will basically price Australian steel out of the domestic and international market. After some time of reading WUWT. Jo Nova, Bishop etc a bunch of us (some environmentalists, conservatives, former ALPérs and trade unionists – we make no distinction) started up a campaiging group against the tax here in the main steel making region in Australia. Initially we were denigrated as “flat earthers and “right wingers”. Some of us were threatened. We stuck to the issues and have tried to argue the science. We recieved a great boost from a visit and lecture to our region by the brilliant Dr Bob Carter. We need the ethical scientists to set out the science and the decent hard working honest people we will take care of the politics in our communities. The ALP and Greens on the ground in this industrial heartland of the ALP are today in disarray. In an election (which cant come soon enough) the ALP/Green coalition will be soundly defeated, including here in their so-called heartland. The ALP is facing its worst electoral defeat in living memory Just wanted to thank you all for helping some of us former warmists to see the light (or is it the sun). Best wishes and more power to your elbow.
David, UK says:
June 22, 2011 at 1:47 pm
“Given the recent elevated rhetoric in Australia, the claims of death threats, and the media suggestions of skeptics getting tattooed and gassed…”
“Skeptics getting tattooed and gassed” – has Ross Garnaut personally expressed a desire for this (or a similar) “solution?” Because if not, then Lord Monckton’s attack is unwarranted ))
Did Ross Garnaut ever censor these out-pourings of panic?? Silence is consent. He must agree because he was silent.
regards
I was nearly ready to defend His Lordship against the charge, noting that fascist does not require “Nazi”. . . and then I saw the Swaztika. Sorry, M’Lord. . . you’re on your own on this one. My best advice is to apologize quickly for the moment of exaggeration, and move on. One cannot be “in the arena” for long stretches of time without stepping on one’s. . . umm. . . tie?. . . from time to time. Best to admit to momentary human failing, and change the subject.
I think he’s right to do it. We are dealing with fascists – why can’t we call a spade a spade?
here’s a copy of a comment I left on another blog on 7/6/11
A message from a brainwashed Aussie
Here in Aust there’s a lot of misinformation being fed to the public by the Govt and its agents (Climate Change Commissioner Tim Flannery and key Climate Advisor Ross Garnaut.) Ross Garnaut is an economist – go figure. The Climate Change Commission has just produced a report ‘The Critical Decade.’ You can see its report debunked by Bob Carter, David Evans, Stewart Franks, William Kininmonth at http://joannenova.com.au/2011/05/climate-commission-report-debunked/#more-15045
and the report itself bears this disclaimer http://www.garnautreview.org.au/update-2011/garnaut-review-2011/summary-garnaut-review-2011.pdf
I’ve lifed in a communist country and I’ve never been subject to this brainwashing before
This publication is produced for general information only and does not represent a statement of the policy of the Commonwealth of Australia or indicate a commitment to a particular policy or course of action. The views expressed in this paper are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the Commonwealth of Australia. The Commonwealth of Australia and all persons acting for the Commonwealth of Australia preparing this publication accept no liability for the accuracy, completeness or reliability of or inferences from the material contained in this publication, or for any action as a result of any person’s or group’s interpretations, deductions, conclusions or actions in relying on this material. Before any action or decision is taken on the basis of this material the reader should obtain appropriate independent advice.
If you had gone to a doctor for a birth control pill at the time thalidomide was on the market you would have expected medical advice if the product was not safe – and because it was not there were later class actions; same applied in the case of breast implants.
Notwithstanding the disclaimer the Govt has seized upon the Report with enthusiasm as entirely showing the correctness of their proposed new tax.
Angry voters however want an election – http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/angry-voters-want-election-before-carbon-tax/story-e6freuy9-1226069753915
Most Australians believe the new tax will or could hurt them financially
The Govt however spruiks the line that with the help of its brand new tax we’re each going to be better off – in fact $8,000 better off according to Treasury modelling – you can read about this here
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/new-carbon-tax-pitch-well-be-much-better-off/story-fn59niix-1226070560026
I haven’t seen the report yet so don’t know whether it carries a disclaimer
Then there’s people worried about their jobs. No probs, there will be no labor market consequences, this report ‘How many jobs is 23,510 Really’ says the impact of the carbon tax on the mining industry will be “trivial” – so small that for practical purposes it will be “invisible,” according to one of Australia’s leading labour market economists; link to the report and critique here
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2011/06/06/how-many-jobs-is-23510-really/
Then there’s the Govt’s other line regarding the labor market – yes you’ve heard it before – all those great new jobs in these great new green industries – no matter Spain and Italy have found for the creation of 1.5 green jobs there are 3 lost in the non green sector – there is selective deafness to that inconvenient truth
Then there’s my personal problem – my ears are attacked daily by my mother who is every day beseiged by alarmist messages over the air waves – everything from diminution of polar bears, increasing sea heights, ocean acidification – the only thing the alarmists seem to be not commenting upon at the moment is warming cos it doesn’t seem to be happening
Oh yes, I forgot to say the Govt is going to compensate us for cost of living changes
Well happy days
I (and the rest of Aust) will be in Nirvana as soon as this tax is introduced; the neighbour’s cat is marching past with its placard ‘Compensate me now’.
and check this story out
the people who went to the anti carbon dioxide tax in Canberra
‘extremists’
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/45518.html
The first thing I learnt on my way to the No Carbon Tax Rally in Canberra is that extremists are punctual – in fact, way better than punctual.
Although ten minutes early, I was last to board my bus, one of about five buses loading passengers in my extreme outer suburb of Sydney. If you want to stop this revolution, trust me, you will need to get up early.
To be honest, I had no idea these people were extremists until advised over the radio by Labor backbencher Nick Champion who was doing a doorstop interview at our destination. As soon as the information came through the radio speakers, I began to take notes just in case you, dear reader, should ever find yourself with one in your midst.
On the exterior, most of these extremists are middle aged, with maybe an average age of 50. Sadly, this means we cannot rule out that they have extremist children of voting age mixing amongst the workaday crowds of the city.
The extremist men seemed to favour horizontal striped polo shirts, shorts and sandals. There was an extremist plumber who took the day off for the rally and told me his friends were surprised he would ever go to something like this. There was an extremist small businessman who gave all his workers the day off to come with him. They spoke of football.
The extremist women favoured short cropped hair of various colours, gold ear-rings, plain blouses and slacks. They spoke about their families and their power bills. Many extremists of both sexes seem to favour reading glasses.
The bus trip to Canberra was every bit as uneventful as all that phrase might convey, but when the roads suddenly improved and we passed the adult shops, we knew we had arrived.
Driving up to the lawns of Parliament we saw a surprisingly large group of people in the distance and wondered at first if they could be part of our group or part of another, but on drawing closer we could see no dreadlocks or giant papier mache head The first surprise was to see Angry Anderson on stage, and the greatest relief was that he was singing “We Can’t Be Beaten” and not “Suddenly”.
Despite a vastly inaccurate report from AAP that the crowd was 1,000, I can confirm that the extremists stretched back from the stage for about 80 metres down the lawn – easily 4,000 strong, probably more.
Angry was living up to his name, telling the extremists that the time comes when we must all stand for something. He was reading out the placards, most of which were good humoured, and some that were less so. At one point he told the bemused crowd he had learned from John Pilger not to trust the United Nations.
Angry’s Pilger reference proved not to be the biggest surprise of the day. This honour belonged to the occasion – later – when an older lady suffered heat stroke and Angry asked whether a doctor was present. The bloke dressed in drag as Julia with a pinocchio nose immediately shed his costume and came forward.
Angry was followed, naturally, by Bronwyn Bishop and Tony Abbott. They were well received, but not as well as crowd favourite Barnaby Joyce. Barnaby was like a rock star who finally found his concert. If he wanted, he could have crowd surfed down to old Parliament House under a tide of joyous protesters, who would have painted his portrait and hung it in the front entrance of the portrait gallery, before returning him to the stage.
Barnaby said that his mother in law in the New England who does Meals on Wheels had told him that pensioners were already under pressure from power bills, and were not using their air conditioners. At least, that’s what we heard.
Fairfax newspapers reported instead that he had told everyone cheap energy was their birthright.
A sky-writer put ‘Juliar’ across the Canberra sky, providing for a few seconds, a surreal tableau.
Sophie Mirabella told us that Julia Gillard was willing to send thousands of jobs off shore to save one – her own. A small businessman told us if he operated like the Prime Minister he would be out of business; a single mother said that being truthful was the first thing we taught our children; and a great grandmother told the Prime Minister to go shove her tax.
Other speakers who made the mistake of mentioning Bob Brown, Penny Wong, Ross Garnaut or the United Nations in the middle of a phrase had the rest of their sentence drowned out by boos.
There were chants, mainly “No Carbon Tax” “Liar, liar…” and at one point, yes “Ditch the Witch”. Perhaps most disturbingly of all for the Prime Minister, thousands of extremists chanted “Election, election… “
We were told that the ABC and GetUp were investigating the corporate movers and shakers behind the extremist movement. Let me save the investigators some time right here. According to the acknowledgments, a Kennards franchise lent them some of the equipment, a small business in Penrith lent them some speakers, and someone called Valerie was responsible for printing some signs.
When it ended the Federal police stood in a line in front of Parliament House with their trousers tucked into their steel capped boots just so. A man in a Hawaiian shirt went up to the tallest one and tried to get him to join the revolution.
While the Feds were distracted, several extremists with cardigans and fold-up chairs slipped through the cordon and headed towards the gift shop to buy snow domes.
Back at the bus station in Sydney I saw a woman talking to someone I took to be her daughter and a grandchild of about five.
She told her daughter, “They called us extremists!”
Quite. The argument of sceptics must always be non partisan, pure science with nothig but a clear and honest regard for the facts.
This kind of emotive argument discredits us.