Here in broken California, we can’t hardly get Cal-Trans to complete regular asphalt roadways on time or on budget. While this is a nice idea, and in a perfect world it might be a perfect solution, I don’t think it will be adopted quickly by cash-strapped state governments. OTOH, maybe Federal subsidies from carbon taxes imposed by the EPA?
The design features embedded LED lights for markers. But, it’s a trouble magnet for some kids to hack the system like has been done with construction signs. This passage from the article really told me though that he doesn’t have a clue:
Brusaw says that the solar road would cost about $4.4M per mile, but those costs are offset by not needing to build coal plants, install utility poles, and build relay stations. “The taxpayers are already paying for all of these.
Umm, there’s coal power plants being built in the USA at taxpayer expense?
Solar-Powered Glass Road Could Melt Snow Automatically
By John Brandon, Fox News
It’s being called snowmageddon – and for good reason. Snow and ice are wreaking havoc all across the United States with record wind chills and more precipitation than Siberia on a bad day. If your commute is taking three times as long as it usually does, go ahead and blame the archaic highway system.
That’s right. In the 1950s, the idea of paving America with black asphalt seemed like a good idea. Now, 60 years later, we’re still using it — and still sliding all over the road.
But what if the road itself could change?
That’s the dream for Scott Brusaw, who has a novel idea for dealing with snowy roads: replace them with a glass surface embedded with solar cells that generate power from the sun and store it in batteries for use at night. In his view, such a proliferation of solar cells could also help solve our ongoing dependence on fossil fuels, because they could feed excess electric power into the grid. He has even developed illuminated lane markings that change according to current road conditions.
His company, Solar Roadways is waiting for approval on a new $750,000 grant from the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) that will help him build a large-scale prototype to test new materials and electronics, and hopefully prove that his invention works.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
I can imagine a car chase with the cops throwing out a spike strip to slow down the perp, only to have the perp drive 5 miles on his rims. Probably just as bad someone pulling a boat and the trailer comes off the hitch and digs into the road for a few hundred feet. Has the designers thought of things like that?
Anybody that has ever tried to boil water using snow will realise that there is a huge energy gap in this idea of keeping roads snow free using stored electrical energy ( from PVs of all lame ideas).
Just to list the mechanical design problems would run to several pages and the installation costs and amount of maintenance involved in such a system would be cost prohibitive. This one won’t fly.
And he could get $750,000 from the taxpayer!! I am off to the drawing board.
Anybody that has ever tried to boil water using snow will realise that there is a huge energy gap in this idea of keeping roads snow free using stored electrical energy ( from PVs of all lame ideas).
Besides that issue-just to list the mechanical design problems would run to several pages and the installation costs and amount of maintenance involved in such a system would be cost prohibitive. This one won’t fly.
And he could get $750,000 from the taxpayer!! I am off to the drawing board.
Paul in Sweden says, on February 6, 2011 at 3:04 pm:
Remove all universities, movie studios, theaters, concert halls & the United Nations buildings from the electric grids, force them to run on wind/solar/wave power and I guarantee you Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming Cooling(CAGWC) will cease to exist.
*******************************
Brilliant idea – I’m all for it!
Let’s start with the universities and the UN, I say!
davidmhoffer says on February 6, 2011 at 7:41 pm:
Actually this idea has merit if you limit it to regions where it is appropriate. You can’t expect one idea to be practical all the way to the north pole. If you limit it to those zones where frost and snow are light and rare it ought to work pretty well.
Of course if global warming is real you’ll have to keep moving the road north.
And if global cooling is real you’ll have to keep moving the road south.
No, wait, that’s not how it works. The snow showing up further south is because of global warming I just heard. So if it gets warmer you’ll have to move the road north to where there is less snow. No, wait, that’s still not how it works. If we have global warming, there is no snow that anyone can remember…so global warming affects short term memory. No wait, that’s not it either. Got it. If global warming is real it will be catastrophic which gives us two options.
1. We do something about it really fast like ban all fossil fuel use. No need for roads. Problem solved.
2. We do nothing about in which case we all die. No need for roads. Problem solved.
You know what else? If the debate ever ends I will be very sad. The endless stream of goofball crackpot are you really trying to pull that one over on me stupidity to make fun of will be hard to replace.
*************************************
And I’ll be very sad to make do without your outstanding replies. A laugh a day keeps the (climate ‘science’) doctor away …
Dave Springer says: February 6, 2011 at 7:31 pm
“The two commonest elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. ~Harlan Ellison”
And both in their own special way are responsible for are causing global warming!
Ralph says: February 7, 2011 at 3:30 am
“someone pulling a boat and the trailer comes off the hitch and digs into the road for a few hundred feet. Has the designers thought of things like that?”
You said too much … “Have the designers thought?”
Honestly most of these renewable energy project are shear madness and in my opinion the dividing line between perpetual motion machines and renewable energy is usually only that one gets a government grant.
Build a roof over the road. Provides “green jobs” shovelling the snow off it so it doesn’t collapse (check the news).
I’m holding out for the Douglas-Martin Sunscreen and the rolling roads.
Best,
Frank
Rubber from tyres, oil and dirt will quickly reduce the effectiveness of the solar cells to absorb solar energy.
The amount of heat energy required to keep the road surface above freezing at times of extreme low temperatures and snow fall would be enormous. Furthermore the surface even kept above freezing would not prevent heavy snow build-up and drifting.
The reason for connecting this to the grid is obvious, it will not work otherwise.
The “selling point”, as with windmills, is the notional carbon-free contribution to the grid in ideal conditions.
The reality will require supply from the grid most of the time, particularly at night and in periods of low temperatures, high wind chill and heavy snowfall – battery back-up will quickly fail.
The net contribution of this latter day yellow brick road to the electric grid would be negative, and its running costs over the rainbow.
(See windmills and their notorious failure to come close to even 25% of their notional generating capacity, which have to be heated using electricity from the grid during cold periods particularly when the blades are not turning or not turning fast enough – most of the time in Winter – then need electricity from the grid to keep them at idle, speed them up or provide braking when wind conditions are not “ideal”.)
fwiw….
http://www.gizmag.com/motionpower-electricity-generation-improvements/13165/
Pneumatic traffic pads which generate electricity for powering traffic lights etc.
Paul in Sweden says, on February 6, 2011 at 3:04 pm:
“Remove all universities, movie studios, theaters, concert halls & the United Nations buildings from the electric grids, force them to run on wind/solar/wave power and I guarantee you Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming Cooling(CAGWC) will cease to exist.”
Great idea – but you forgot to include NCAR and NASA GISS in the list (particularly their supercomputing facilities). They’d have to resort to burning old copies of journal papers and government reports for heat…
Wouldn’t the glare from a glass road be incredibly dangerous? Sun reflecting off of car windows can be a hazard, the entire road surface would be blinding.
Plus, there would be a couple more problems in areas like here in central Florida where thunderstorms are a daily occurrence in the summer. Water on glass. Hydroplaning is bad enough on asphalt. And how easy will it be to replace lightning damage?
Wouldn’t it be easier just to develop a flying car like we were promised back in the 60’s?
No need for roads at all!
Not to worry. After a few days the surface will be dirty and chipped enough to solve that problem. And incidentally prevent any PV units from working. Remember that even a thin layer of wind-blown dust is enough to drastically decrease the effect of solar cells, as proven by e. g. Mars Rovers.
Incidentally I wonder how they plan to prevent sand, grit or pebbles from getting blown onto the road by wind or carried there by vehicles. Together with vehicle tires these would grind the glass away pretty quickly I would think.
Some unintended consequences come to mind:
Pot Holes
Rock Falls
Power Outages
Floods
Fallen Power Lines
Solid engineering would solve all these.
If that is so, how come they all keep happening?
Thank you all. Even the “it could happen” posts prove it shouldn’t happen – ever. It might make a nice display at Disney World under glass and controlled conditions. Mighty expensive entertainment though. And what about building and replacing all of the batteries and their degrading efficiencies due to age and temperature?
Apparently, it’s the research that’s renewable. And the research we’ve been doing since Carter consistently and repeatedly says “not remotely practical. ” But, oh wait, what if we require electric cars and they are powered by the very road they are on? I have to use my first reaction to this article:
So little wheat and so much chaffe in the utopian mental masturbation fantasy business.
“davidmhoffer says:
February 6, 2011 at 4:49 pm
I think people are being very negative. The idea is brilliant, but the inventor is just missing some practical knowledge in some of the finer details. I’d think there would be enough expertise on this site to help out. I even made a list of things he doesn’t seem to know much about:
Snow
Roads
Tires
Dirt
Glass
Solar Cells
Erosion
Freeze/Thaw Cycles
Economics
Power Distribution
Frost Heaving
Cyclical Natural Interferance Systems (Leaves)
Territorialy Induced Sub Culture Markers (Graffiti)
Roadside Deposited Morning After Night Before Inducements (Puke)
Deer in Head Lights Incident Factors (Road Kill)
Might be more, that’s just off the top of my head. C’mon, help the guy out!”
helpwanted.com
monster.com
jobsbin.com
That oughta help the guy out. He needs a day job, preferrably one that doesn’t involve exposure to chemicals as I don’t think he can handle anymore loss.
This idea has the hallmark of an idea sprung from a night, or two, of libations(pick the poison) and we could all end up paying for this boondoggle. It is impracticle, costly, and has very little chance of actually working….hmm, right up the AGW believers alley, actually.
As far as the engineering goes, the potential is there, but then the potential to live on the bottom of the sea is there too, just too bloody expensive. There is little we cannot do, however the costs are just too much. With all the problems states, not to mention the fed, are facing now with the state employee unions and their golden pensions, does anyone really believe that this project could come anywhere near the cost the man stated and not make a bad problem worse? There will be a need for an increase in state employees, the unions will not allow most states to just farm the work out to contractors and with some states already on the edge, and one foot on a banana peel, this is an asinine idea that is best left to the sci-fi literature world.
Brilliant idea!
Brilliant in the sense of being completely retarded to a level transcending human comprehension.
Can I get a grant to make cars that are made of magnets?
These magnetic cars will be pulled down the road by windmills positioned on the side of the road. Magnets mounted on the twirling blades will provide the motive force.
Wires hidden in the road (glass or otherwise) will get induced current generating electricity for every magnetic car that drives by, also heating the road, melting the snow, and feeding power to the grid, saving the world, no matter what the temperature.
Windmills required can be reduced in half by building hills into the system so 50% is all downhill.
In addition, optional large solar sails can be deployed out the rear of the car to capture solar wind at sunrise and sunset for extra boost.
I can come up with this crazy crap too… just give me the money.
Simple thermo. Batteries can’t supply enough energy to melt ice on a road or almost anywhere else. The cold ground underneath will suck away that small amount of heat like a sponge unless it’s very well insulated from below.
First test the scheme (& its economics) on a driveway in a cold climate before risking any large amount of money. I’d love to see the results. Someone where I worked actually did have electric heating-elements embedded in his driveway to melt snow (it was turned “on” only when required). After one winter’s worth of staggering electric bills, he just disconnected it — & that was 30 yrs ago when electric rates were much lower.
Ummm – so what happens to the melted snow (that would be water)? If there are snowbanks on one or both sides, where does it go? Oh, OK, all roads have drainage ditches that will work in sub zero conditions.
Driving along roads that are a mixture of ice and water – priceless!
OK, it is easy to make fun of this idiotic proposal, but the real issue is that potentially $750k is available for this boondoggle. That is enough to keep 10-15 families going for a year.
In hard economic times in the US, why is this happening?
“OK, it is easy to make fun of this idiotic proposal, but the real issue is that potentially $750k is available for this boondoggle. That is enough to keep 10-15 families going for a year.”
Or feed 1,000-1,500 malnourished children for a year.
A far better way to do heated roads, that has actually been built, used in service in a harsh climate, and refined to sound practice, is a simple asphalt + liquid heat exchange system. Tubes buried well below the surface of the roadway store summer warmth in the soil deep below the road, then tap that warmth as needed to melt snow.
Search on “heated roads” to get a lot of links. Best research has been done by Ooms Nederland:
http://www.oomsinternational.com/en/7/301/road_energy_system.aspx
suspect they will test it in San Diego and because there is no snow buildup during winter declare the test a success….
I can see it now, just as the roadway is finished the utility company will come along, as they always do with a freshly paved road, and dig a groove in the side to fix a pipe or a line.
So he understands that roads have a camber to them, and the surface includes both synclastic, and anti-clastic sufaces, and he is going to have modulse that seamlessly transition from one shape to another…
By the time they roughen the glass surface enough to provide tire traction, it will be too rough to transmit much light in either direction; and just what sort of glass do they plan to use. There are some ordinary window pane type glasses, that you can cut with a pair of ordinary scissors, if you hold it under water; not it doesn’t cut like paper but it does cut.. So their glass is not going to undergo any funny transitions when it is wet ?
There are whole books of Highway Standards for building roads; yes I actually have a copy of part of it that relate to bridges.
There’s this think called an H-20 truck, that describes a standard truck that weighs 20 tons. It has two front wheels that must support some number of tons, and I believe 8 rear wheels; I think the split is 4 tons in the front and 16 tons in the back. There’s a slightly reduced tonnage truck, I think it is 14 tons in the back that applies to bridges that are of mixed steel and wood construction; but a steel and concrete bridge calls for the full 20 tons.
These trucks are so heavy, that you can’t legally drive one on any US highway without a special permit. I know because I had to design a bridge that would support such a truck, even though no such thing could even drive up to my bridge. The design I came up with could take an A-1Abrams Tank on it, and carrying another such tank on top of it. But it would have consumed all the funds I had available to build the bridge, just to have a State Certified civil engineer either certify my plan or come up with his own, that met the spec. My bridge was steel and wood, so it only needed to meet the lighter truck standard; but as I said it went way over the requirement. The water district who’se truck had damaged the existing ALL wooden bridge, declined to accept my bridge, even though THEIR civil engineer, told me it would easily do the job.
So I simply replaced the broken wooden members of the existing all wood structure, and told the WD, that what their 75 years of right of way gave them the right of access to was an all wooden bridge such as the one they broke; so I just restored it to its pre-damage condition. And then I blocked access to it; for safety reasons, on the grounds that I could not certify that it met the bridge requirement conditions that they laid down; since I did not design the original bridge. The wooden bridge decking used to support railway freight cars for a hundred and fifty years, so I think it will last a while longer.
It’s obvious from what these rocket scientists are constructing, that they have no clue as to what they are doing. Well I hope they get their patent, and make a fortune off it.