An Open Letter to Dr. Michael Mann

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Dear Dr. Mann:

I just read your piece in the Washington Post.

First, let me say that I disagree entirely with Cuccinelli’s legalistic approach. It doesn’t seem like the right way to achieve the desired result, that of shining the merciless light of publicity on your actions.

Figure 1. The Merciless Light of Publicity

On the other hand, your opinion piece published in the Washington Post contains a number of omissions, misrepresentations, exaggerations, and misstatements of fact.

[As a digression, for those who don’t know who Dr. Michael Mann is, he is the man who wrote the paper that established the “Hockey Stick” as the icon of misguided climate science. He then used his position on the IPCC to promote his own work, and suppressed contrary views. In one swipe he threw out all evidence that there were warmer periods in the past. No Medieval Warm Period. No Little Ice Age. Here’s that famous and most bogus of graphs, which has been reproduced hundreds of thousands of times …

Figure 2. The “Hockeystick” graph.

Unfortunately, his math was wrong, and the method he used mines for “hockey stick” shapes and will pull them out of random data, so the graph turned out to be both meaningless and totally misleading. End of digression]

So without further ado, Dr. Mann, here are my comments on your opinion piece. I have put your entire article from the Washington Post, without deletions, in bold italic.

Get the anti-science bent out of politics

As a scientist, I shouldn’t have a stake in the upcoming midterm elections, but unfortunately, it seems that I — and indeed all my fellow climate scientists — do.

If this is a surprise to you, it should not be, and not just for climate scientists. Cast your mind back President Eisenhower’s farewell speech in 1960, wherein he said (emphasis mine):

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers. The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present — and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.

You are funded by the government, and are a salaried member of that scientific-technological elite that Eisenhower warned us about. Why on earth would you think that you would not have a stake in the election? The problem is the opposite – you have far too large a stake in the election, since climate science funding comes solely because the government is willing to back your ideas. As a result, a change in administrations might dry up your funding. You have a huge stake in the elections, and it is curious you want to claim otherwise. You are fighting like mad to keep the funding coming, so don’t pretend that you “shouldn’t have a stake” in the elections.

And regarding the elections, you have a huge political problem. Your science is so shabby and weak, and your claims are so apocalyptic, shrill, and far-fetched, that the people are no longer buying your line of patter. Climate change is at the very bottom of things that the electorate thinks are important … which seems to drive you guys nuts. Because of this, you and other climate scientists like Jim Hansen have become political activists, fighting like crazy to make sure the right people are elected to keep the money spigots turned wide open … just like Eisenhower warned.

So please, spare us the vapors about scientists having a stake in politics. You are in it up to your ears.

Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) has threatened that, if he becomes chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, he will launch what would be a hostile investigation of climate science. The focus would be on e-mails stolen from scientists at the University of East Anglia in Britain last fall that climate-change deniers have falsely claimed demonstrate wrongdoing by scientists, including me. Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) may do the same if he takes over a committee on climate change and energy security.

Deniers? Anyone who is still using that emotion-laden, infantile term is deliberately being antagonistic. In any case, we have very real reasons to suspect you of wrongdoing. You don’t exactly show so well in things like the Climategate emails … see below.

My employer, Penn State University, exonerated me after a thorough investigation of my e-mails in the East Anglia archive. Five independent investigations in Britain and the United States, and a thorough recent review by the Environmental Protection Agency, also have cleared the scientists of accusations of impropriety.

Forgive my bluntness, but that is absolute hogwash. Hand-picked groups of your myopic friends have gotten together, consulted the auguries, studiously looked away, and declared you and Phil and Gene and the rest to be pure as the driven snow. But not one of the “thorough investigations” has spoken to one single person other than you and your friends and supporters. How thorough is a “thorough investigation” that only interviews your friends? “Exonerated”? Don’t make me laugh. You haven’t even been investigated, much less exonerated.

Nonetheless, Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli is investigating my previous employer, the University of Virginia, based on the stolen e-mails. A judge rejected his initial subpoena, finding that Cuccinelli had failed to provide objective evidence of wrongdoing. Undeterred, Cuccinelli appealed the decision to the Virginia Supreme Court and this week issued a new civil subpoena.

What could Issa, Sensenbrenner and Cuccinelli possibly think they might uncover now, a year after the e-mails were published?

Well, they might uncover the truth contained in the emails that haven’t been published. For example, you stand accused of conspiring to delete emails that showed you and your friends trying to prevent IPCC Review Comments from being made public.

Did you delete those emails? We may never know, since your good buddies in the “thorough investigation” DIDN’T EVEN LOOK TO SEE IF THE ACCUSATION WAS TRUE. They never looked through either your emails, or the CRU emails, to see if you had deleted emails as you were asked to do by Phil Jones. They never looked for your answer to Gene.

As you may not want to recall, in the Climategate emails, Phil wrote to you about the AR4 review emails, as follows:

Phil Jones wrote:

Mike,

Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis.

Can you also email Gene [Wahl] and get him to do the same?  I don’t have his new email address.

We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.

I see that CA claim they discovered the 1945 problem in the Nature paper!!

Cheers

Phil

Those emails, Dr. Mann, were the subject of a Freedom of Information Act request. You replied:

Hi Phil,

laughable that CA would claim to have discovered the problem. They would have run off to the Wall Street Journal for an exclusive were that to have been true.

I’ll contact Gene [Wahl] about this ASAP. His new email is: xxxx@yahoo.com

talk to you later,

mike

Now you may have a reasonable innocuous explanation for that interchange. I don’t see one. I see Phil advising you to break the law and delete emails that were the subject of an FOI request, and you saying “I’ll contact Gene about this ASAP”. When your friends were doing their “thorough investigation”, it is curious that they NEVER ASKED TO SEE the other emails in the chain. Like for example the email you said you would send to Gene to tell him to delete the emails. Did you send it?

And did you delete your emails? The “thorough investigation” never investigated that either, they didn’t even try to answer that important question.

So please don’t give us your sanctimonious posing as though you were shown to be innocent. The “thorough investigations” run by your friends have not determined your innocence, or the lack thereof – since they haven’t even tried to look at the evidence, how could they determine anything? So the jury is still out on the question.

But the facts we do have do not look good for you in the slightest.

If you had any actual evidence that you were innocent, I’m sure you would have given it to the investigators … funny how none of the five investigations have come up with a single fact or email or document to exonerate you in this question. As far as we know, you didn’t write back to Phil later and say something like “I can’t delete emails, that would be unethical and possibly illegal”. You wrote back to say that you would pass on the email deletion order to Gene … and you want us to believe that your hands are clean? Sorry, my friend, I’m like the Red Queen, I can believe six impossible things before breakfast, but that one is just too big to swallow.

The truth is that they don’t expect to uncover anything. Instead, they want to continue a 20-year assault on climate research, questioning basic science and promoting doubt where there is none.

The truth is, your objections have nothing to do with climate research. You are simply worried what an inquiry might find out, otherwise the idea of an investigation wouldn’t bother you a bit. But since all the indications are that you and others conspired to subvert the IPCC process , and then conspired (as shown in the Climategate emails) to cover it up, I can understand your all-pervading unease …

Cuccinelli, in fact, rests his case largely on discredited claims that Rep. Joe Barton (R-Tex.) made during hearings in 2005 at which he attacked me and my fellow researchers. Then-Rep. Sherwood Boehlert (R-N.Y.) had the courage and character to challenge Barton’s attacks. We need more political leaders like him today.

Discredited claims? A bit more specificity would go a long way here, although I don’t expect it of you. What claims were “discredited”? As a close observer at the time, I did not see that a single claim against you was “discredited”. Quite the opposite, several of your claims were discredited, and McIntyre’s claims were totally upheld.

We have lived through the pseudo-science that questioned the link between smoking cigarettes and lung cancer, and the false claims questioning the science of acid rain and the hole in the ozone layer. The same dynamics and many of the same players are still hard at work, questioning the reality of climate change.

I’m not sure what your point is here. You seem to be saying that there have been false claims made by shady scientists in the past, and so that makes you right. How does that work again?

The basic physics and chemistry of how carbon dioxide and other human-produced greenhouse gases trap heat in the lower atmosphere have been understood for nearly two centuries. Overloading the atmosphere with carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels is heating the planet, shrinking the Arctic ice cap, melting glaciers and raising sea levels. It is leading to more widespread drought, more frequent heat waves and more powerful hurricanes. Even without my work, or that of the entire sub-field of studying past climates, scientists are in broad agreement on the reality of these changes and their near-certain link to human activity.

Scientists are in broad agreement that the earth has been slowly warming for about three centuries. We don’t know why, which should give us a clue about the depth of our understanding of the climate.

More to the point, there is no agreement about such basic, rudimentary, fundamental, all-important questions as the sign and size of the cloud feedbacks. A change of 2% in cloud cover would wipe out any CO2 effect. Since we don’t understand the clouds, that most basic and critically important part of climate science, the idea that we understand why the earth is currently warming, or the idea that we can forecast climate a hundred years in advance, is hubris of the first order. We don’t know why it warmed in Medieval times. We don’t know why it warmed in Roman times. We don’t know why it has warmed since the “Little Ice Age”. We don’t understand the climate, and you folks’ claims that you do understand it well enough to make century-long forecasts just makes rational, reasonable people point and laugh.

Burying our heads in the sand would leave future generations at the mercy of potentially dangerous changes in our climate. The only sure way to mitigate these threats is to reduce global greenhouse gas emissions dramatically over the next few decades. But even if we don’t reduce emissions, the reality of adapting to climate change will require responses from government at all levels.

And you know this how? You guys have got some serious coconuts, to think that you can predict what kind of “potentially dangerous changes in our climate” will be the lot of people living a hundred years from now. Let me say it again. There is no agreement on the SIGN, much less the size, of cloud feedback. And if you don’t understand cloud feedback, you don’t understand the climate well enough to forecast it for a decade, much less for a century.

Next, you say “even if we don’t reduce emissions” as though there is a cost-effective way to reduce temperature through emission cuts. The Kyoto Protocol (if its adherents had been able to fulfill their targets, which they didn’t) was estimated by its proponents to have the potential to cool the earth by six hundredths of a degree by 2050. The EPA just estimated that their current plan of regulating CO2 as a “dangerous pollutant” will cool the earth by somewhere around three hundredths of a degree by 2030. Those are the estimates of the proponents of the plans, opponents say less.

So you are pushing us to spend billions and billions of dollars and radically reshaping the global economy, and all for a trivial, unmeasurably small reward of a few hundredths of a degree … and then you think people who are against your cockamamie ideas are “anti-science”??? Where is the science in spending billions and billions of dollars for a possible, not guaranteed but only possible, temperature reduction so small we can’t even detect it? That’s so dumb and so far from science that I can’t begin to characterize it.

Challenges to policy proposals for how to deal with this problem should be welcome — indeed, a good-faith debate is essential for wise public policymaking.

But the attacks against the science must stop. They are not good-faith questioning of scientific research. They are anti-science.

The questions that you have been asked from the beginning have been the most fundamental of good-faith questions. We simply asked you to show us your data and your work. We requested you to abide by the most bozo requirements of the scientific method. Show us your data, show us your work, the same thing my high school science teacher taught me.

But no, in February of ’05 you went to the Wall Street Journal to make the extraordinary claim:

Giving them [McIntyre and McKitrick] the algorithm would be giving in to the intimidation tactics that these people are engaged in

For you to claim that such basic scientific questions were not in good faith, for you to say that merely (and politely) asking you to show your work is “intimidation”, is the opposite of science. For you to refuse to respond to those requests stops science in its tracks. We just wanted to see how you had come up with such an unusual and unexpected result as your total eradication of the Medieval Warm Period from the landscape. (It turned out that when you were finally forced to reveal your methods, your novel result could be seen to came from a stupid mathematical error combined with using bristlecone pines, known to be an invalid temperature proxy. That made your work meaningless and misleading … but I digress.)

How can I assure young researchers in climate science that if they make a breakthrough in our understanding about how human activity is altering our climate that they, too, will not be dragged through a show trial at a congressional hearing?

How can you assure them? It’s very simple. Dr. Mann, do you think you were picked at random to testify at a Congressional hearing? If you want to assure young researchers that they will not be dragged in front of Congress, tell them not to do the things you have done.

Tell them not to hide adverse results in a folder marked “BACKTO_1400-CENSORED“. Tell them not to make stupid mathematical mistakes and then refuse to show their work. Tell them not to hang around with people who delete emails that are the subject of a Freedom of Information act. Tell them not to subvert the IPCC process to advance their point of view.

And above all, tell them to be open about their data and their work. Why is it so hard for you to understand and practice this most basic of scientific tenets, total transparency and openness? You got hauled before Congress, not because of your scientific views, but because you tried to con people with your bogus math and bad proxies. And when we didn’t buy it, when we asked how you got your results, you refused to explain your methods, claiming it was “intimidation” to even ask, so we should just take it on faith that you were right …

Tell your students that scientists who do those things may have to face either the consequences, or Congress, or both …

America has led the world in science for decades. It has benefited our culture, our economy and our understanding of the world.

My fellow scientists and I must be ready to stand up to blatant abuse from politicians who seek to mislead and distract the public. They are hurting American science. And their failure to accept the reality of climate change will hurt our children and grandchildren, too.

My friend, the problem is not blatant abuse from politicians. The problem is your blatant abuse of the scientific method. If you and other climate scientists stopped trying to scare us with your doomsday fantasies, if you and other climate scientists were honest and open and forthright about what we do understand and what we don’t understand, if you and other climate scientists fully disclosed your data and your methods, if you and other climate scientists stopped trying to subvert the IPCC into serving as your propaganda mouthpiece, we could have a rational discussion.

But you are like a junkie who jumps up and down and screams “Police abuse” every time the cops question him. Asking you scientific questions is not abuse, Dr. Mann, no matter how many times you try to claim it is. And your investigations are the just rewards of your own anti-scientific and unethical actions. As my momma used to say, “Scorch around, and you’ll get burnt.”

Now, if you’d care to disagree with any of the things that I have said above, I am certain that Anthony Watts would be more than happy to publish your reply. So the opportunity is yours to make your case about the math, and the bristlecones, and the IPCC AR4 review comments, and all the rest. Heck, publish your emails that show that you didn’t conspire with Wahl and Amman and Jones to delete emails regarding what you had done to subvert AR4 … I offer you the chance to set the record straight.

My conclusions? I strongly support the fullest further investigation of the Climategate scandals, and your own role in them. Not via the legal system like Cuccinelli, however. I want an independent, outside scientific/academic investigation that talks to both your friends and those who disagree with your actions and claims. I want to bring in full sunlight, and put this matter to rest. I would like to know if you did delete the emails, and if you asked your pal Gene to do the same … you know, the stuff your precious “thorough investigations” never investigated in the slightest.

And as a result, it is perfectly clear to me why you have gone to the Washington Post to complain about the possibility that people might find out exactly what you did and didn’t do. And I have to say, I sympathize with you in that regard.

Because from the looks of things, if I were you … I wouldn’t want someone bringing in the sunlight so folks could find out what went on, either.

Sincerely,

Willis Eschenbach

Independent Climate Researcher

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October 11, 2010 12:04 pm

John McManus says:
October 11, 2010 at 4:49 am

Through the many enquiries that have universally exonerated Johnes, Mann et al from these fabricated charges, email archives were requested, produced and read. They are none of my business, being private, so I don’t expect to have access but I am glad they formed part of the investigations. Knowing they were examined makes the findings of the many investigations stronger
#####
ah no they were not. none of the investigations looked at forensic evidence to determine this. They explicitly did not.

James Sexton
October 11, 2010 12:12 pm

Timoteo says:
October 11, 2010 at 11:33 am
Oh, Anthony, this is dirt.
========================================================
Figure 1 is a successful attempt at humor. The graph is an attempt(partially successful) to mislead the public, while using the public’s money to do so.

Richard Sharpe
October 11, 2010 12:13 pm
Bruckner8
October 11, 2010 12:17 pm

My 6th grade science teacher had us use the Scientific Method all year. Every 6 weeks, we had to turn in a steno pad, the first page of which had to be a Hypothesis. The following pages were supposed to be our thoughts about WHY we had come to the Hypothesis (Observations). Then we would document any and all experiments/tests/activities. The activities could even be interviewing real scientists about what they thought about our idea!
We also had to state (ie, think about!) why others might find fault with our Hypothesis. Further, before we turned them in, we’d spend two days reading each others’ Hypos, writing in their stenos about what we thought was wrong! On the final day, we were allowed to rebut the rebuttals!
The rebuttal process was done in private (as if we were writing to each other…no emails!), not in real-time back-and-forth discussion…that was later, only twice per year. At the end of each semester, the class would vote on a project or two that would go under further scrutiny, with teams “taking sides.” It didn’t matter if you really believed in the Hypothesis not…your job was defend your side using sound principles. You had to prepare a “statement” and give it aloud to a panel of other science and math teachers.
It was perfectly fine to turn in a project where you found out that your Hypothesis was false! You just had to be sure to stick to the entire method, showing your work.
From this, my appreciation for science, math and logic was formed.
In 6th grade.
My disgust with all things in modern day “politico-science” is that every one of those steps is somehow missed by the experts. The steps I learned in 6th grade.
Everything I’ve learned about Climate Science, I’ve learned as a result of this site. I’m no expert on it. All of my contributions (as few as they are) have been along the lines of “cost assessment of risk/reward” and failures of the Scientific Method. My first post asked “How can all of these world-wide thermometers be calibrated properly, and known to be of the same vintage? [common error margins, accuracy]”
One needn’t be an expert in Scientific Fact Knowledge to spot flaws in a process.
I’m not skeptical of Climate Change. I’m skeptical of the processes followed by the people in which we’ve put our trust! (And to me, that’s worse than Climate Change.)

Jeremy Poynton
October 11, 2010 12:27 pm

@Fool me once says: october 11, 2010 at 2:27 am
I’m unfamiliar with Willis Eschenbach’s extensive publication record in climate science?
//
So? It matters not in the context of what the author writes.

Robuk
October 11, 2010 12:43 pm

REID A. BRYSON PhD.
PROXIES ARE SECOND -TIER -STUFF
All this argument is the temperature going up or not, it’s absurd,” Bryson continues. “Of course it’s going up. It has gone up since the early 1800s, before the Industrial Revolution, because we’re coming out of the Little Ice Age, not because we’re putting more carbon dioxide into the air.”
Little Ice Age? That’s what chased the Vikings out of Greenland after they’d farmed there for a few hundred years during the Mediaeval Warm Period, an earlier run of a few centuries when the planet was very likely warmer than it is now, without any help from industrial activity in making it that way. What’s called “proxy evidence”—assorted clues extrapolated from marine sediment cores, pollen specimens, and tree-ring data—helps reconstruct the climate in those times before instrumental temperature records existed.
We ask about that evidence, but Bryson says it’s SECOND -TIER -STUFF . “DONT TALK ABOUT PROXIES,” he says. “We have written evidence, eyeball evidence. When Eric the Red went to Greenland, how did he get there? It’s all written down.”
Bryson describes the NAVIGATIONAL INSTRUCTIONS PROVIDED FOR NORSE MARINERS making their way from Europe to their settlements in Greenland. The place was named for a reason: The Norse farmed there from the 10th century to the 13th, a somewhat longer period than the United States has existed. But around 1200 THE INSTRUCTIONS CHANGED IN A BIG WAY. ICE BECAME A MAJOR NAVIGATIONAL REFERENCE. Today, old Viking farmsteads are covered by glaciers.
Bryson mentions the retreat of Alpine glaciers, common grist for current headlines. “What do they find when the ice sheets retreat, in the Alps?”
We recall the two-year-old report saying a mature forest and agricultural water-management structures had been discovered emerging from the ice, seeing sunlight for the first time in thousands of years. Bryson interrupts excitedly.
“A silver mine! The guys had stacked up their tools because they were going to be back the next spring to mine more silver, only the snow never went,” he says. “There used to be less ice than now. It’s just getting back to normal.”
HOW DID MANN WITH HIS COMPUTER MODELS AND DODGY PROXIES OVERTURN UNCHALLANGEABLE HISTORICAL AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL FACTS.
file:///G:/Users/Rob/Desktop/page%202/Reid%20A.%20Bryson%20and%20swiss%20silvermine.html

October 11, 2010 12:48 pm

Mann Wrote
“We have lived through the pseudo-science that questioned the link between smoking cigarettes and lung cancer, ….. The same dynamics and many of the same players are still hard at work, questioning the reality of climate change.”
Fundamental to science is verification. The link between smoking and lung cancer was first established by questionnaires returned by 34000 British Doctors, and has been strongly replicated since. They use methods that aim to eradicate bias, and have strong levels of statistical significance. The hockey stick selects data sets for their results, then used methods (e.g. short-centering) that increased that bias. Even then the statistical results are very weak. See
http://manicbeancounter.wordpress.com/2010/05/15/big-tobacco-and-climate-change-deniers/

John McManus
October 11, 2010 12:49 pm

Steve Mosher:
Emails were requested, produced and examined. You know it and I know it. Forensics has nothing to do with it except as a red herring sandwitch.

Dr. Dave
October 11, 2010 12:50 pm

“Overloading the atmosphere with carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels is heating the planet, shrinking the Arctic ice cap, melting glaciers and raising sea levels. It is leading to more widespread drought, more frequent heat waves and more powerful hurricanes”
Is there any proof for any part of this statement? Perhaps…the combustion of hydrocarbons definitely releases CO2 into the atmosphere. CO2 is a GHG and if atmospheric concentrations became high enough (like in 100 years) future generations might be able to detect a slight warming. We know that glaciers have been retreating for at least a couple hundred years. Sea levels have been rising since the end of the last ice age. Polar ice fluctuates widely. Is drought more widespread? Are heatwave more frequent? Are hurricanes any more powerful.
I think in this comment thread someone even invoked the Holy “97% of climate scientists believe…” canon. Jeepers, I’m shocked! Guess what…97% of American trial lawyers are vehemently opposed to tort reform, too. Think those opinions are the result of enlightened self-interest?
Mann cracks me up as he spews the wearisome old talking points of the AGW alarmist movement. Some of his supporters (defenders) here parrot similar drivel from the same playbook. You can bet the farm that they’re ALL scared spitless of Nov 2.
Willis, as an aside, your responses to comments are nearly as much fun to read as your article. Well done!

Francisco
October 11, 2010 12:53 pm

Reasonable and well-researched skeptical inquiries of prevailing theories, meriting publication, are by no means limited to climate science, and they are generally met with similar nastiness to keep them at bay wherever they arise. Nor is corruption unique to this field (the pharmaceutical-medical field in particular is probably much more corrupt than anything else we can imagine).
Maybe in older times (pre-WWII, say) it was sensible to suppose that the scientific community could effectively police itself. But today? I don’t see how. And I see no clear means of fixing the system either.
Peer review is very very corrupt in many fields. Would it be better if it were eliminated altogether? I suppose. But what would you replace it with? Ultimately, a means to make a judgement has to exist. Funding has to come from somewhere, and no matter where it comes from, it seems to be the root of corruption. In the case of the chemical, medical and pharmaceutical fields, it comes mostly from the private industry itself, and the courruption is simply amazing. In the case of climate science it is coming mostly from the public coffers, and the results are getting almost as bad. I find the whole scene extremely depressing.
Big science – corruption of peer review…
http://hivskeptic.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/big-science-commercial-science-publishing-corruption-of-peer-review-science/

John McManus
October 11, 2010 12:56 pm

[snip. Try to avoid calling others “deniers.” ~dbs, mod.]

John McManus
October 11, 2010 12:59 pm

Smokie:
How about the investigation of Wegman ? Done by his employer and fellow employees.
Surely you regard this process as a whitwash.

John McManus
October 11, 2010 1:15 pm

[snip. Using the d-word gets your comment deleted. ~dbs, mod.]

John Whitman
October 11, 2010 1:20 pm

Mark says:
October 11, 2010 at 11:42 am
No, I’m not saying scientists should be above the law. I am saddened to see that the scientists in the field have allowed so much sloppy, slip-shod work to pass as science, and have said nothing. Their unwillingness to stand up for proper science has led to the current situation. I think by preference it should be handled by scientists, not lawyers.
However, since climate scientists have completely abdicated their responsibility to clean up their own back yards, since none of them seem to be willing to point out that the Emperor is buck naked, we end up with the lawyers involved, which is always a tragedy.

————
Willis Eschenbach,
Calmly stated Willis. Thank you for your even tone in writing about this.
Part of the upcoming reformation / renaissance in climate science must then be re-structuring a working relationship and cooperative understanding with legal bodies. Everyone wins if there is mutual process and understanding of thresholds between science and law. The height of the hurdle that science should clear in order to be above reproach needs to be understood. That understanding should be what sets the height of the hurdle that science should clear to be above reproach.
Leadership has yet to emerge in this area. But the ongoing situation is an opportunity for UoV and Cuccinelli to just sit down and talk this through without the public and the courts. THAT STILL could happen. Wisdom is needed here, not hot heads.
John

Jan Pompe
October 11, 2010 1:22 pm

John McManus says:
October 11, 2010 at 4:49 am

While condemming Mann roundly, WE admitts that there is no evidence that Mann or Jones deleted any emails.

I rather understood that he made no such admission but that the so called investigators did not investigate it. They didn’t, and not looking for evidence a far cry from there being none.

Matt Ridley
October 11, 2010 1:25 pm

Small correction: I’m pretty sure it was the White Queen, not the Red Queen, who believed six impossible things before breakfast…

James F. Evans
October 11, 2010 1:28 pm

Congressional hearings in the House of Representitives.
I can’t wait!

Enneagram
October 11, 2010 1:35 pm

Silly alarmism: 7 Cities About to Sink
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-35998698

Trucker Bob
October 11, 2010 1:36 pm

Bravo Willis Bravo!

sharper00
October 11, 2010 1:36 pm

@Willis Eschenbach
“I say this because science has (up until now) always been self-policing, with frauds and hucksters being dealt with internally. This necessity to clean up our own scientific backyards made science itself stronger, just like exercising any facility makes it stronger. Scientists should have the coconuts to stand up for the scientific process. It is too important to be left to the legal profession. Unfortunately, most climate scientists these days are very unwilling to say anything at all about even the most egregious examples of scientific malfeasance.”
I’m afraid I’m now even more confused because it appears you believe Dr Mann is guilty of everything he’s charged with (and that there are other scientists who similarly guilty of fraud).
If, as you believe, Dr Mann is guilty of fraud and that normal scientific processes have failed to even identify much less marginalise that fraud then what’s the basis of your objection to to the Cuccinelli investigation?

Hilary Ostrov (aka hro001)
October 11, 2010 1:59 pm

BS Footprint says:
October 11, 2010 at 9:18 am
What cajones! Every time I see the term “climate change” I am reminded of just how slippery this subject has become. I love the way he charges skeptics and opponents with being “deniers of change” when most I know of are denying AGW, not climate change.
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And when it comes right down to it, IMHO, very few are actually “denying” AGW.
Although many do question where the evidence might be for the primacy of C02. As Philip Bratby wrote recently:

“Why is it everything to do with the effect of human emissions of CO2 is given a false label?
“For example ‘climate change’ is a false label taken to mean only man made global warming. Thus all climate change is falsely attributed by politicians and advocates to human causes, even though we know climate change is natural.
[…]
Could it be that politicians and environmental advocates are trying to scare the ignorant general public by use of false labels?[…]” [emphasis added -hro]

From Mann’s most recent whine above:

“Overloading the atmosphere with carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels is heating the planet, shrinking the Arctic ice cap, melting glaciers and raising sea levels. It is leading to more widespread drought, more frequent heat waves and more powerful hurricanes. […] scientists are in broad agreement on the reality of these changes and their near-certain link to human activity.”

I’d say that the above paragraph is a perfect example of “an environmental advocate trying to scare the ignorant general public”.
It certainly doesn’t sound very “scientific” to my ears. Although it is somewhat amusing to note that “scientists are in broad agreement” seems to have replaced previously ubiquitous “scientific consensus” as the au courant appeal to authority.
Perhaps this subtle shift was the outcome of the recent AAAS sponsored “rebranding” workshop deliberations?!

Theo Goodwin
October 11, 2010 2:01 pm

John McManus writes:
“My personal theory is that many of the people commenting on denial blogs know the truth; it’s warmer, the MWP was regional to the North Atlantic, trees can be good thermometers and on and on.”
Sir, you are a typical Warmist. Whether or not Earth is warmer is absolutely irrelevant to the question of whether or not Climategaters made some contribution to science. What you and Climategaters care nothing for is science. You do not even know what it is. If, for the sake of argument, Earth is warming and that warming is caused by manmade CO2 only, then no credit accrues to Mann and friends. The reason is that Mann and friends have produced no science. The product of science is well-confirmed hypotheses and the ability to use those hypotheses to make predictions and to explain the phenomena predicted. Mann’s work does not even get to the level of hypothesis. All his work might have accomplished is to establish nine data points. Yet he and people like him CLAIM THAT HIS SCIENCE SHOWS THAT MANMADE CO2 IS THE ONLY CAUSE OF A GLOBAL WARMING THAT IS INDEED HAPPENING. Mann has no science because he produced no well-confirmed hypotheses. His work cannot be used to either explain warming. Maybe he is too stupid to know that. In either case, he has no place teaching in a university or receiving government funds for scientific research. Now, do you understand? If your work produces no well-confirmed hypotheses, you are not a scientist.
By the way, since you claim that “trees can be good thermometers,” please fess up to the fact that Mann assumed that trees can be good thermometers, but did nothing to establish that they are. In fact, the famous act of “hiding the decline” was Mann, Jones and others conspiring to cover up the fact that their empirical data since 1960, their tree data, DIVERGED FROM rather than supported the claim of warming.

Vince Causey
October 11, 2010 2:04 pm

John McManus is correct in that the UK FOI legislation has a number of get-out-of-jail-free clauses, as Steve McIntytre found. Reasons cited to deny requests included confidentiality agreements with foreign countries. However, if reasons are spurious, the commissioner can overrule the decision. Unfortunately, the evidence that Phil Jones dripped poison into the ear of the university’s administrators is ironically present within the emails themselves.
In one email, Jones describes how he organised a session with the administrators, complete with slide presentations. As he himself bragged, after an hour and a half, he convinced them “what sort of person we are dealing with in McIntyre.” On several occasions he refers to McIntyre as “that type,” and bragged how he got the administrators fully onboard, and primed to resist any attempt to release the requested data.
At the time, McIntyre, in the eyes of the warmist community, had bright red skin and horns on his head. More recently, this most honorable and mild mannered of gentlemen, has entered the limelight, and presented an image in sharp contradiction to the one that Jones tried to instill in the heads of the administrators. In my opinion, Jones was prejudiced in his presentation, and set out to misinform and misdirect the administrators to block all FOI requests with the sole objective of serving his own ends. For that reason, his name will live in infamy.

James Sexton
October 11, 2010 2:07 pm

John McManus says:
October 11, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Steve Mosher:
Emails were requested, produced and examined. You know it and I know it. Forensics has nothing to do with it except as a red herring sandwitch.
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No, John, that’s not correct. Where on earth did you get the idea that e-mails were requested, produced and examined? Further, even the most basic question was never asked.———Mike Mann, “Did you delete e-mails that were pertinent to the FOI requests?”—–It’s never been asked.
Later, you state, “The ” denial of service plan ” by the denialist brainstrust meant to slow….”
Why is it so unimaginable that people would actually like to see the science behind the wild assertions coming from the alarmist camp? You actually believe Willis’ FOI request was in the purpose akin to a DOS? Is it your assertion these totally ridiculous claims of a non-existent MWP, LIA, RWP and the rest should never be examined by critical thinkers? If the CRU asserted that they had proof that CO2 actually induces a cooling effect on the earth, would you simply accept their statement or would you want to see the science behind the assertion?
That’s such a hoot! Yeh, the entire skeptical community all got together in one great webinar and formulated a DOS plan that included the snail mail FOI requests. The wanks forgot to send me my invite to that one, but I’m pretty sure something like that happened! Denialists?(BTW, I object to that word on a two-fold basis, not the least of which the use of the word minimizes the murderous pain and suffering Holocaust victims went through.) We don’t engage in denying reality, but you, apparently, have no qualms with living in a fantasy world. Mr. McManus, get a grip.

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