Consider this a bonus Quote of the Week, but since it’s not climate/science/weather related I didn’t give it top billing for QOTW this week. That honor went to a study from the Max Planck Institute.
You are probably thinking though that I’m going to write about something related to satellite sensing or NASA GISS. Maybe with Jim Hansen or Gavin Schmidt as topics? No, there’s even more FAIL than those two can muster. It’s about their boss.
h/t to a zillion people who wrote in, but borrowing a bit from Russ Steele at NCWatch:
Charles Bolden, head of NASA, tells Al Jazeera in a video that:
…the “foremost” task President Obama has given him is “to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with predominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering.”
Thus, NASA’s primary mission is no longer to enhance American science and engineering or to explore space, but to boost the self-esteem of “predominantly Muslim nations.”
I can think of a few satirical images I could create to illustrate this folly, but they’d probably start a Jyllands-Posten style jihad.
Exploring space didn’t even make the top three things Obama wants Bolden to accomplish. The other two are:
…”re-inspire children to want to get into science and math” and “expand our international relationships,”
See the video below if you find this quote unbelievable.
This has passed beyond a question of left and right to one of absolute incompetence and idiocy. I always felt Ayn Rand’s antagonists were somewhat over the top, I guess I was wrong (shudder.
I may write on this later, it’s so moronic it hurts. There is just too much wrongthink in this world.
So, WUWT? Is Hansen et.al. going to Koran-school now?
Well, you can’t say that he’s not honest about what his marching orders are.
How well that fits with what NASA’s actual capabilities are or with what the public expects is the question.
Maybe that task would be more appropriately placed in the Education Department as opposed to a research agency.
And what is the White House complaining about wrt coverage of this buffoonery? That people are paying attention, and have the audacity to pipe up and say “Excuse me, but. . .” over the incident.
As the entire administration has been giving a new emphasis to Not Ready for Prime Time, maybe that’s all that NASA is good for, these days. We mustn’t put too much of a strain on the poor dears.
You wanted a change – you’ve got it.
I can’t believe he was serious. This must surely be pure propaganda or NASA might as well close down and save the USA a lot of Dollars. As a European, spending the first five years of my life under German occupation, I have always held USA in high regard regardless and saw Uncle Sam as my ultimate garantor of my freedom during the Cold War. I deplore the downward slide of this great country and do hope that at some stage The United States will regain its former strengths in science, engineering, business and entrepreneurship. The World needs a strong USA.
Beyond belief that once proud NASA is now just a political water boy for Obama. It seems like every effort is used to destroy the fabric of the United States of America. Every day yet another insult.
I’m with Jeff.
If I launched into a full-bore rant right now…I’d wind up getting banned.
There’s a bunch of folks in the Federal government that need to lose their jobs.
A whole bunch.
Hey, those guys gave us the abacus, so don’t knock ’em. I wouldn’t be without mine.
It is so sad to see an organization so totally lose its direction. I’m old enough to remember Skylab, the Viking probes and the promise of the space shuttle. I wanted to become an American so I could work at NASA!
What a tragically pathetic end to an organization that once inspired the world.
Name the next rocket Al Pollo. Ooops, forgot, they’re not in the rocket business anymore.
Without the video, I never would have believed it.
We’ll end loving Hansen and their funny trains.☺
Ahh, yes. Let’s have a rocket scientist exchange program. Give them even better technology than they can get from N. Korea or Pakistan. That’s the ticket. If I were Bolden, I’d know exactly where to send my next rocket.
I can’t wait to hear what Neil Armstrong has to say. Once he gets his head glued back together after the explosion, of course.
It is my understanding Iran wants a rocket with which they can reach Israel.
I take the space program has too much science in it for comfort.
Are Hansen and Schmidt not very busy these days?
How sad. Seems the whole West is on a race to the bottom. No doubt the experience they have gained in fabricating global warming science will stand them in good stead for fabricating Islamic history as well.
Unreal. I would not believe it had I not seen it. Amazing. Please vote in November and in the mean time write your elected officials. I am stunned.
NASA’s original mission was to push the limits and put a man on the moon. This was what they were and they did the job well. Next they were given the mission to be bus drivers to low orbit. They did it but not as well. Now they are given the mission to be diplomats. Want to bet on how well they will do this mission?
You commentators have it wrong. Obama et al are not just incompetent and idiotic. It is worse. Every thing done by them in policy formation and legislatively is intentional, maliciously so. E.G. see Paul Driessen’s (10/5) essay on todays ICECAP.com, “Obama’s Deliberate Katrina”.
Obama is in the process of creating and substituting a socialist tyranny for our constitutional government. He cannot be more clear about his motives and objectives. He repeats the regularly. Wake up everyone before it is too late.
America: 1776-2010 It was a good run.
The way you inspire children is by doing fun and exciting things like going to the moon. The space program inspired me as a child
In the rankings of what inspires children, presidential speeches come right near the very bottom. Suicide bombers, shoe bombers, underwear bombers, bus bombers, plane bombers, school attackers and hotel attackers rank even lower.
Congress ordered and funded the Yucca waste repository. Now several judges say Obama doesn’t have the authority to close it. Congress will have to rule on it. The President doesn’t negate legislation.
I am not sure Congress is ready to dismantle NASA.
I was 9 years old when Apollo landed on the Moon. I remember staring with big, blue eyes at the black&white TV. I am now 50.
NASA has lost it completely. How sad. Should we perhaps look to Russia or China?
Till I saw the video, I wondered if Bolden was deliberately exposing the mental shortcomings and muslim-credentials of the first possibly non-American leader of the ‘free’ world (wouldn’t you be frustrated to be given such tasks as Head of NASA – seems like the sort of tasks given to the Newbie because noone else would want to do them!). However, Bolden seems to relish the task (he looks pretty muslim/egyptian in appearance or at least African-American) so maybe he is an Obama-clone!
Either the US voters come to their senses and get rid of these fools or we will be subjected to much worse scenarios than this stupidity. I have no confidence that they will. (Snip.)
LOL !
Obama is the very bestest little friend Israel ever had. Even more than Bush.
Bush wouldn’t attack Iran, Obama will.
Yes we can.
http://www.chicagojewishnews.com/story.htm?sid=212226&id=252218
The bottom just figuratively fell out of my jaw. I can’t see how any sane president would abuse his power this way (along with our taxes). Talk about an embarrassment!
[i]John Peter says:
July 6, 2010 at 2:30 pm
I can’t believe he was serious. [/i]
Change you can(‘t) believe in?
Yes, we will reach out to the Iranians and make them feel good about their historic contributions to science, math, and engineering, which lead to their recent contributions which may soon be completing their trajectories near or even on each of us. I am certain the Israelis will likewise join us in this, as they are exceedingly grateful for the contributions of predominantly-Muslim nations that regularly fall on their country. The contributions of Iraq under Saddam Hussein, especially the testing of them, was indeed of great historical significance. We should indeed make them feel good about all their hard work.
🙂
There’s actually some kind of logic to this, all be it tenuous. The Wahabi Islamist Jihadi movement is profoundly anti-knowledge, anti-enlightenment, anti-progress, anti everything that an education brings. Because, if those people spending ten years in a Madrassa learning nothing but the theology that makes it seem sensible for them to become suicide bombers had spent ten years learning maths and particle physics instead, they almost certainly would have had nothing to do with anybody trying to recruit them to blow themselves up in a crowded train station. Of course, such secular subjects as maths and science are derided by the Islamists as un-Islamic. Much like they brand pretty much everything else useful or constructive in the world as un-Islamic.
Therefore, there is long game value in pointing out very clearly that when we in the european judeo-christian part of the world were doing the Dark Ages, the Islamic world was doing the cutting edge scientific thought, the astronomy, the literature, the architecture, music and all sorts of great works, and that a lot of the science we in the first world are doing today stands on the shoulders of work done by the great Islamic scholars and of the middle ages.
Henry chance says:
July 6, 2010 at 2:46 pm
It is my understanding Iran wants a rocket with which they can reach Israel.
I take the space program has too much science in it for comfort.
Actually, they already have rockets that will reach Israel, the SE part of Europe in fact. They just can’t do the plutonium payload just yet. Iran’s rocket program is the most explosive one in the world though!
Do not be surprised. This is symptomatic of a larger pattern.
America’s world dominance started after WWI and certainly after WWII when the British empire was finally killed off. It’s greatness peaked when they landed a man on the moon. It’s been on the slide ever since. The US is a great country in terminal decline. Like all empires it grew out of a vision of a society of free men ready to work and tame the wild west. It then got fat, lazy and stupid. The vision is dead. NASA makes this crystal clear.
Eventually the same will happen to China and each big country will have its day. That’s how it goes.
It is far worse than we ever thought….
So just who is this dingbat anyway; and what is it that qualifies him to be the NASA administrator; lemme guess; he isn’t Moslem himself is he; he seems to say the word with some air of authority; like he has used it before; sort of like out President and his visit to all 57 States (Moslem States that must be).
And just where in the Koran does it say that humans are supposed to go flying around the world; I thought we were all supposed to go and hide our faces in old wells and other holes underground; along the lines of where Saddam Hussein was finally found.
The longer Obama is at the controls, the more I wonder how he got elected. This guy really hasn’t ever had a real job, has he?
☹
He is a moron.
“”” David, UK says:
July 6, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Hey, those guys gave us the abacus, so don’t knock ‘em. I wouldn’t be without mine. “””
And who was the inventor; Foo ibn Manchu ?
Like the Arabic numerals; that were invented by the Hindus; long before there even was any moslem philosophy.
…the “foremost” task President Obama has given him is “to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with predominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering.”
Sorry but, not being an American, despite the “foremost” word, I can’t find anything wrong with this phrase…
Once, when we westerns were “barbarians”, trying to enforce christianism by the power of the sword, muslims were worried with maths (you forget that 1, 2, 3, 4… 0 are the arabic numerical notation), were looking at the stars, giving great contributions to astronomy and had a incredible advanced architecture. Somehow, nowadays, they seem to be backwards in history and became a new sort of “barbarians”. Despite this, it’s possible to see great scientists that come from the muslim world. Maybe possible ties between we westerns and peaceful muslims, based on science and scientific cooperation, can build something more interesting that brainless invasions from brainless US administrations don’t you think? If you study a little bit of history you can find daily science procedures, some of them universal and transversal to scientific areas, that are contributions of ancient arabian scientists. Some of them well ahead of their time, well before european renaissance. Sorry Anthony but, besides the “foremost” task thing, I don’t agree with your emphasise in this statement as a negative thing (or did i made a wrong interpretation?)
Ken Haylock says:
July 6, 2010 at 3:16 pm
“There’s actually some kind of logic to this, all be it tenuous. ”
Yes, well, but think about it. Why NASA? Why not the IPCC instead?
Then they could try something even more impossible than reduce the planets temperature?
I would be happy to celebrate the many fine scientific accomplishments of the modern Muslim world, just as soon as I can decipher what they are.
I count two (2) scientists from Muslim majority countries who have won Nobels:
1. Claude Cohen-Tannoudji*, Physics, 1997
2. Ahmed Zewail, Chemistry, 1999
* Born to French-Jewish parents in Algeria when it was still a French territory.
To paraphrase Mozart in the movie Amadeus – when one hears such sounds what can one say but ‘Obama?’ When I read this yesterday the kid in me was stunned. Nothing would get kids more interested in math and science than American feet on the Moon and Mars. America needs to be first in space period. Its a mattter of pride.
What a bunch of crap.
What this means is that Obama and his ilk believe that it takes the US to make the Muslim world “feel good” about their historical contributions. What an insult to the Muslim world (not that I care a whole heck of a lot) that Obama believes they are incapable of recognizing and celebrating their own history without us.
They are all stoopid. God save us.
Your Obama is an ass. Nero fiddled while Rome burned and Obama played golf while Oil gushed into the gulf. Although I do not believe he is a muslim, (though I am unable to dismiss it as totally implausible) is pretty subservient to the Muslim world.
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY ]
Oh good grief! Well I expect the Americans are
“Dancing in the streets”I mean reaching for their guns at this good news.Not sure if I got the strike bit right, be nice MODS. 🙂
Somewhere locked away in some NASA back rooms and labs I pray there is a key under some glass with a sign that says – “In case of normalcy, please break glass and let us engineers out!”
Absolutely stunning.
Dr. Feynman pretty much documented what is wrong with NASA in 1986. It has deteriorated since then and for a long time has pretty much been a financial black hole.
The problem truly is not, much as it pains me to say it, Obama’s but rather a continuing progressive problem (the Protect the Moslem ego’s thing is a unique stroke of brilliance).
Fire. Them. All.
We have insulted the middle east.
oil addiction
Dependence on foreign oil
This infers they are not good people.
Dirty oil
After insulting their livelyhood, we need to build up their self esteem
Can we send James Hansen to Detroit?
He can do some community organizing there and then hit Dearborn Michigan.
Ken Haylock says at 3:15 …..
It is my understanding that most of the terror activies in the West can be traced to home-grown, well educated Muslim wannabes, not un-educated Wahabis.
And you might just get be in line for a job spuking the Islamic contributiion to science. Much of it was recycled from Indian science, Christian Byzantium science, and preserved Greek and Roman science. Its my understaning that the non-Muslim population were responsible for the bulk of translations and preservation anyway. Good for them for not wiping it all away like they would do today, but lets not get too carried away. But if we can bending of history and science to serve the purpose of politics, that has to be good in this brave new world of ours?
BarryW,
In 1964, between junior and senior high school, I tried to read Atlas Shrugged. I literally could not finish it because, as you say, the villains were simply beyond believe. Somewhere, perhaps in the heaven she ridiculed, Ayn Rand is smiling.
How coincidental! Yesterday, I picked up a copy of Dan Brown’s novel, Deception Point, the back cover of which carried the following blurb:
“When a new NASA satellite detects evidence of an astonishingly rare object buried deep in the Arctic ice, the floundering space agency proclaims a much-needed victory. . .a victory that has profound implications for U.S. space policy and the impending presidential election”.
Another case of life imitating art?
Obama is turning out exactly as I expected. He is an anti-western, anti-freedom, anti-Jewish, pro-slavery(socialist) leftist academic. This is what these people do. It’s too bad he has turned on NASA. I figured NASA was too small and had too much of a mandate for space exploration to be turned in to something else. I guess on NASA I was wrong.
BarryW,
Ayn Rand was raised in Soviet Russia. She had first hand experience of the sort of society that gets built when people like Obama come to power. She saw it first hand and came to America and told us about it.
The Prez must be feeling groovy lately.
He just handed out a feel-good ambassador mission to NASA’s head.
What’s next, a full diagnostic tuneup for Kim Jong Il’s car?
Other Space Nerds will understand…
The Dream is Dead. Dead and Gone.
This is what we can expect from having three to five layers of political appointees directing the work of civil servants who are supposed to be functioning as directed by laws established by congress as representitives of the people. NASA has no business doing the business of the State Department.
The panel found that President Barack Obama and Department of Energy Secretary Steven Chu, a nuclear physicist, lacked the power to close the Yucca repository unilaterally; doing so, it ruled, would require another act of Congress
Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/07/04/96995/judges-rule-obama-cant-close-yucca.html?storylink=MI_emailed#ixzz0swiECDTp
Obama is making end runs around congress.
This is Chicago style corruption. The regime decides what friends get what money.
Charles Bolden, all your space are between your ears!
Reply: All your comments are belong to us. ~ ctm
Third and perhaps foremost?
who friggin talks like that?
Don’t be so hard on Obozo. After all, he has done the previously considered impossible feat of making Jimmy Carter look good by comparison.
Spartacus: Since you admit to not being an American, let me help you. NASA is an acronym for National Aeronautical and Space Agency. It is funded by American taxpayers for the purpose of American space exploration. It is not for purpose of elevating the self-esteem of a particular religion or other countries because they are predominantly Muslim.
Let’s replace Muslim with Christian and see if you understand.
“…the “foremost” task President Obama has given him is “to find a way to reach out to the Christian world and engage much more with predominantly Christian nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering.”
I won’t even go into the implication that Obama is once again apologizing for America’s success or that his administration is diverting American assets to serve a larger, international agenda.
Islam is what 1200 years old? That makes them relative newcomers in the science and innovation biz. Egypt, China, Japan, Maya, India, Greece, Rome, Carthage, and many others contributed far more, centuries before Muhammed was even a gleam in his daddy’s eye. They don’t impress me at all.
How is it thzt NASA gets a mission to kiss-up to mullahs and the EPA gets the power to regulate the air we breathe? Meanwhile, the DOJ has thrown up its hands and said that the Arizona law would give them too much work to do.
I had a lot of Iranian friends at university . They told me this 25 years ago. MI6 put the Mullahas in power. Democracy and oil do not mix.
**
Mike uncovers papers which accused the BBC of biased reporting as Iran descended into revolution in 1978 and 1979. The documents show that the BBC’s Persian Service found itself attacked on all sides, with the most vociferous critics claiming that the Corporation was not simply reporting events but influencing them in favour of regime change. As Ayatollah Khomeini sat in exile in Paris, the BBC stood charged with galvanising the radical cleric’s supporters and acting as his mouthpiece in Tehran.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00j6lfk
Here’s a quiz
Which country did the USA supply arms to during Iran Contra ?
Was it
1) Iran
2) Iraq
3) Ireland
What was the October Surprise 1980 ?
Muslims dont need us to patronisingly tell them their own history.
OK Islamic countries made scientific and mathematical achievements, hundreds of years ago. As did the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, (all these pre-islamic), Mayans, Chinese, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Mongols etc.. But they all kind of lost it somehow.
But the science the world now operates is predominantly almost exclusively European and (later) American, dating from the Renaissance, and initiating individuals such as Galileo, Regiomontanus, Copernicus, Andreas Vesalius, Brahe and Newton. Figuring out differential calculus was of more significance than figuring out how to count up to ten.
And why does it matter? Science is important to the extent that it is true and effective and predictive. Science doesn’t need racial profiling. Today’s scientific community is remarkably globally cosmopolitan, probably more than any other profession (if its feudal political structure deserved to be called a profession which is doubtful). Look at the researchers and PhD students in scientific research groups. A laboratory in Oslo or Helsinki can have members from Iran, Spain, Morrocco, China, Libya, even Britain, you name it.
The Islamic world dont need our sychophantic Stockholm-syndrome self-loathing appeasement and patronising, any more than they need Western military forces in their territory. They can sort out their own problems best when we leave them alone.
I wonder, how I and my countrymen would feel, if some guy from the USA would say in our TV, that they want us to feel good about our scientific heritage.
WTF comes to mind… or maybe more classically: “What’s Hecuba to him, or he to Hecuba?”
From White House spokesman Nick Shapiro: “The President has always said that he wants NASA to engage with the world’s best scientists and engineers as we work together to push the boundaries of exploration. Meeting that mandate requires NASA to partner with countries around the world like Russia and Japan, as well as collaboration with Israel and with many Muslim-majority countries. The space race began as a global competition, but, today, it is a global collaboration.”
Sorry to be picky ☺ ☺, but that should be:
All your comments comment are belong to us.
/dr.bill
Me thinks the Muslims did about as much, if not more, conversion by the sword as anyone. Al Hazen, arguably the finest Arab “scientist” from that time when Arabs were actually contributing to learning, once said that he did much of his best thinking on the back of a Camel–as he escaped one “enlightened” Muslim ruler after another.
Damn that WordPress HTML!
All your
commentscomment are belong to us./dr.bill
[REPLY – SOMEONE SET US UP THE BOMB. TAKE OFF ALL ZIG. ~ Evan]
According to Wiki Answers the Arabs invented zero in the 4th Century BCE. However, it may be perhaps time to recognize that the “O” in Obama is a big fat zero.
[snip]
An important nit to pick: National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
Note that “Aeronautics” preceeds “Space” in its name and that the agency still has the responsibility of its predecessor NACA for doing aviation research and standards-setting.
Eric Paisley,
As one who was well aware of what was going on back then, I’d add Jimmy Carter’s name to the list of suspects. When Carter convinced the Shah to go into exile, the Shah gave an interview in which he said [going by memory, may not be an exact quote]: “I should have never taken his [Carter’s] advice to stop paying monthly stipends to the mullahs.”
The mullahs were under control because of their state sponsored income. Anyone who spoke out against the government risked losing their paycheck.
Come to think of it, that’s exactly what’s going on today with the government/NGO grant system.
OK, here are my answers…
The country was … Contra.
The October surprise was the U.S. media finally figuring out that Jimmy Carter would probably not be re-elected.
Hey, I had a lot of Iranian friends also at college and never heard of the MI6 success, rather I recall many originally starry-eyed Iranians who returned home for a time in early 1980, dribbling back in ones and twos to Salt Lake City with horror stories of what Iran had become under Khomeni.
David, UK says: “Hey, those guys gave us the abacus, so don’t knock ‘em. I wouldn’t be without mine.”
The abacus far preceded Islam. The Sumerians, Egyptians, Greece, Rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abacus
‘Pathetic’ is the kindest adjective I can find to describe this. NASA inspired this nation and more to reach for the stars both in reality and our imaginations. Now groveling for mediocrity is the new excellence. I think Kipling exposed the roots in his ‘Gods of the Copybook Headings’.
“Therefore, there is long game value in pointing out very clearly that when we in the european judeo-christian part of the world were doing the Dark Ages, the Islamic world was doing the cutting edge scientific thought, the astronomy, the literature, the architecture, music and all sorts of great works, and that a lot of the science we in the first world are doing today stands on the shoulders of work done by the great Islamic scholars and of the middle ages.”
There were scientists in the Middle East who did great work DESPITE religion, not because of it. The muslim rulers today are the inheritors of an ideology that destroyed science, so please, don’t conflate scientific achievement with anything written in the Koran.
The head of NASA can appeal to children all over the world if he wishes, but to appeal to the “Muslim world” as if the religion has anything to contribute to science is idiocy.
After listening to the video, this whole thread and comments is just one crazy overreaction after another. I think it’s obvious that the guy is giving an interview to the Arab world, and so he is going to emphasize right off the bat the general diplomatic policy of outreach to the Arab world. Is this not frickin’ obvious? And this whole “three things Obama charged me to do” are obviously not the only three things given him to do, they are obviously the three talking points this guy wants to bring to this particular audience. And so of course the first one he brings has to do with the Arab world, since that’s who he’s talking to.
The idea that this means Obama instructed this guy to make these the TOP three things to do with NASA is just nonsense. They are obviously three EXTRA things to do, and there’s no mention of priorities at all, such as these being the top three priorities. You guys are just reading your own political bias into this. Sometimes the smears of conservative politics on this supposedly non-political scientific site are pretty annoying, but this is just over the top.
Smokey
Carter was obviously deeply involved .
The Mullahs were the Shah’s allies. No surprise MI6 replaced the Shah with them. The original 1978/79 uprising was secular.
MI6 were going to put the Mullahs in power in 1953, but used the Shah instead.
***
The Anglo-American operation in Iran in 1953 to remove the popular Mossadeq government, which had nationalised British oil operations, involved plotting with Ayatollah Seyyed Kashani, the founder of the militant fundamentalist group Devotees of Islam. MI6 and the CIA financed demonstrations against Mossadeq, and even discussed installing Kashani – a predecessor of Ayatollah Khomeini – as Iran’s leader after the coup. The Foreign Office noted that in power Kashani “would conceivably accept western money”, but viewed him as “a complete political reactionary”, and therefore not reliable as a long-term asset
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/05/bin-laden-radical-islam-collusion
Mohammad Al Wright and his brother Mohammad ibn Wright invented flight. A capacity later developed by Mohammad Al Boeing of course; and who could forget the M26 Flying Fortress?
When do I get NASA funding for my research on pogo sticks? That will pacify bin Laden …
NACA started out with 12 people and an annual budget of $5,000.
From a speech Obama gave at NASA on 4/15/10:
Noting “the sense that folks in Washington — driven less by vision than by politics — have for years neglected NASA’s mission and undermined the work of the professionals who fulfill it,” the president said the budget increase changes that.
Obama is projecting. Again.
Kevin Kilty, enough with the revisionism. Yes, they are called Arabic numerals but are, in fact Hindu numerals; the muslims took them from the polytheists. And all that astronomical and mathematical learning was taken from the Hindus and Greeks.
Seems unfair to accuse a politician of making political statements. And I’m very proud of all that we American’s do to try to help with rest of the world. In fact much of my opposition to the green movement hings on the fact that it’ll be nearly impossible to lift from poverty the one billion humans who live and die on the edge of starvation if we abandon hydrocarbon fuels.
I know many fine scientists from the Muslim world, even scientists who are devout practicing Muslims. And without question they have a rich scientific heritage. A heritage that forms a foundation upon with modern science rests.
If this site is going to degenerate into a racist-rant site, I’m really going to miss it.
JinOH July 6, 2010 at 2:53 pm
“America: 1776-2010 It was a good run.”
Very clever, JinOH!
dr.bill says:
July 6, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Reply: All your comments are belong to us. ~ ctm
Is BORAT standing in as moderator this evening?
I am not surprised. I am not even appalled. This kind of evil nonsense coming from Washington is to be expected: we let loose this evil, we asked for it.
Our welfare-state civilization is obviously flawed in its very foundation. Perhaps, for any positive change to take place, the surreal, Kafkaesque, self-loathing world of the modern “progressive thinking” must run it course, and collapse under its own weight.
Aliens won’t help, we must be our own enemies. Think of it as of an evolution in action.
phlogiston says: “Muslims dont need us to patronisingly tell them their own history.”
Perhaps they do. This is what they think of themselves today – “In light of the beheading of headmasters, it’s not surprising that, despite a population of over 1.2 billion, modern Muslims contribute so little in the fields of science, art, literature, music, or, for that matter, anything that expands the horizon of human knowledge.”
http://technorati.com/lifestyle/article/headmaster-beheaded-in-afghanistan-by-taliban/
Phlogiston, one of the great impellors of the Rennaisance was the fall of Constantinople, taken and pillaged by the muslims in 1458 if I remember correctly. All the scholars who could, escaped to Italy.
[1453. ~dbs]
David, UK says: July 6, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Hey, those guys gave us the abacus, so don’t knock ‘em. I wouldn’t be without mine.
Nope
Invention:
abacus
Definition:
A counting device: a mechanical device for making calculations consisting of a frame mounted with rods along which beads or balls are moved
Inventor:
Chinese in c3000 BC
Doug
Climate related:
So if we add the actual temperatures of Tehran to the anomalies and smooth over a 1500 mile radius we hide the decline.
Not climate related:
Imagine what the jihadists can do with all those satellites.
I think this qualifys as an “EPIC FAIL” followed by a string of profanity involving clowns, gong shows, and cluster—-s.
“Charles Bolden, head of NASA, tells Al Jazeera in a video that:…the “foremost” task President Obama has given him is “to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and ..to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering.
Exploring space didn’t even make the top three things Obama wants Bolden to accomplish. ”
At the end of his term maybe Obama can embolden Bolden to “reach out to the Americans and help them feel good about their historic contribution to space exploration”
Maybe he could do this from a Russian Soyuz rocket on his way to the International Space Staion, as the only means for Americans to reach there.
So then, the initials ‘NASA’ actually now stands for the ‘Nation Association of Socialistic Appeasers?’
John Q Public says: July 6, 2010 at 3:28 pm
The longer Obama is at the controls, the more I wonder how he got elected. This guy really hasn’t ever had a real job, has he?
Well John, Oprah Winfrey has a lot to answer for. Maybe she should have given him a job on her show instead –he sure has the talent for that! – might have spared us all a lot of grief. Bring back Dubbya I say. All is forgiven!
Doug
JinOH says:
July 6, 2010 at 2:53 pm
America: 1776-2010 It was a good run.
You neglect to consider just this:
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
~ Thomas Jefferson ~
There’s been a ‘drought’ of late, methinks …
Othodoc said
“I would be happy to celebrate the many fine scientific accomplishments of the modern Muslim world, just as soon as I can decipher what they are.
I count two (2) scientists from Muslim majority countries who have won Nobels:
1. Claude Cohen-Tannoudji*, Physics, 1997
2. Ahmed Zewail, Chemistry, 1999
* Born to French-Jewish parents in Algeria when it was still a French territory.”
Sorry but i don’t measure science by the number of Nobel Prizes awarded. After all that prize is the mere opinion of a one country academy of sciences. I don’t play down the merit of earning one but i do not over rate it also. After all, considering the value of a Nobel Prize, thought not in a science area, there’s some institution and an almost be president that also earn one… 😉
I thought that was Hillary’s job!
Now what is she going to do?
A friend of mine pointed out to me that we have it all wrong. When this gentleman said we need “to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world…” he’s talking about another planet that NASA must have found.
To Stupidity and BEEEYOND!
jonrgrover says:
July 6, 2010 at 3:56 pm
I’ve read most of what Rand has written and a number of articles written about her, including her life story. She knew the horrors of authoritarianism first hand. My quibble was with her characters who seemed cartoonish, not with her philosophy. The scary thing is that real world characters are beginning to act more cartoonish than the fictional ones! In the words of Ellsworth Toohey: “Don’t set out to raze all shrines—you’ll frighten men. Enshrine mediocrity, and the shrines are razed”
I’m frightened anyway. When congressmen say they have to pass bills before they know what’s in them, NASA administrators are told that their objective is to make Moslems feel good about themselves, and government won’t enforce its own laws and rules….
Oh come on, the guy was trying to be nice to his hosts and blow it up into this? This isn’t a science blog, it seems to be about a grudge and world view that does not fit the global warmers – and to lower yourself into the same lying crap they do is just depressing. Congrats on taking this blog into the same territory as the IPCC and Pauchuri. You could do so much better…
When you want to kill something in a slow and painful way, one effective method is poison. ‘Tis apparent that the great have truly fallen. Alas poor Nasa, I knew him well! T’would that we had not succumbed to the siren calls of lust and leisure or the fallacy of a world united, and had fought harder to maintain what once we had. Gone is all we once believed in. Ahead is nothing of worth. Woo’ is me! Woo’ is thee!
PS: After “The Greatest” came “The Worst”, I’m told.
All you [snip] need to learn to read, isn’t this a science based blog where facts matter? Like these?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_in_medieval_Islam
“re-inspire children to want to get into science and math”, in other words kiddies learn how to skew science to make it worse than we thought, then use the math to count your money.
The real lesson here can be summed up in three words:
Elections have consequences!
If you’re a US citizen, please remember this in November!
Meanwhile, NASA, while formulating this new strategic vision of inspiring Muslims and children, was busy in 2009 greedily spending stimulus funds on themselves (this was over and above their normal bloated budgets) while scientists and engineers in the private sector were laid off due to the recession…
I see the progressives have answered the alarm, so I’ll be “unsubscribed” here.
I don’t need any help understanding what Bolden meant, I’m still working on what he said.
Come on, guys and gals, let’s give credit where it is due. The old scholars of Islam did contribute significantly to science and philosophy and did not have the shackles of Catholocism epitomised by the Galileo/Pope event.
Fairness dictates that honour be given to past scholarship and not confused with the prominent actions of an unrepresentative modern few terrorists.
By the way, I have the idea that with that phrase, Charles Bolden was being practical considering NASA fund cuts. After all, NASA lost most of its financial capacity to develop space technology. USA development depends a lot of countries that borrow money. Maybe Charles Bolden just made a little eye blink to get some $$$ cooperation 😉
Without International cooperation, USA will never be able to invest heavily in space again. The 60’s, probably won’t come back. So, contrary to the opinion of JefID in his recent post in the air vent, its not a question of USA helping muslims to get space technology but muslims to help USA to have money to be back on space again.
In this and many other issues, Americans tend to defend a cause looking only to their belly, without expand horizons. This image can apply to may western countries and I hope that make you all think a little.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rI1gp_IdT0M/TCmgzlJ1zGI/AAAAAAAABGs/mKVTWtR88KY/s1600/20534-large.jpg
Every person or blog has its highs and lows. I consider this a little “low” in a generally essential scientific blog.
In this way, I emphasise Thomas commentary above that has an opinion similar to mine
“Seems unfair to accuse a politician of making political statements. And I’m very proud of all that we American’s do to try to help with rest of the world. In fact much of my opposition to the green movement hings on the fact that it’ll be nearly impossible to lift from poverty the one billion humans who live and die on the edge of starvation if we abandon hydrocarbon fuels.
I know many fine scientists from the Muslim world, even scientists who are devout practicing Muslims. And without question they have a rich scientific heritage. A heritage that forms a foundation upon with modern science rests.
If this site is going to degenerate into a racist-rant site, I’m really going to miss it.”
Spartacus says: “Once, when we westerns (sic) were “barbarians”, trying to enforce christianism (sic) by the power of the sword, m(sic)uslims were worried with (sic) maths (you forget that 1, 2, 3, 4… 0 are the arabic numerical notation)…
Don’t you mean …4, 3, 2, 1, 0, FIRE?
phlogiston says:
July 6, 2010 at 4:20 pm
<i?Muslims dont need us to patronisingly tell them their own history. [–snip rest–]
Not according to Maurice Strong …
As Strong would have it, there –of necessity– needs to be created an artificial division of humanity, such that a great and onerous set of differences arises, and affords HIS associates the ability to take advantage of what happens AFTER the result.
Have you ever seen the stained glass window at the headquarters of the Fabian Society, in London?
Here, take a GOOD look at it: http://www.awakeandarise.org/article/FabianWindow.htm
In the background is a ‘shield’ with a wolf in sheep’s skin (clothing).
Note too, the globe being ‘hammered’ into shape by the smiths, itself which has been brought from the hot coals of the forge.
The WHOLE essence of that group of people is to create TOTAL WAR amongst the nations of the world, and THEN take advantage of the devastation by quickly grasping the reins of government in every land immediately thereafter.
Think I’m kidding? Look at what happened in almost EVERY European nation, right after WWII: Almost every single on of them was: SOCIALIST.
Who —what polity— governs the U.N.?
Take it from there …
Since Obama’s abrupt cancellation of the Constellation program, it has been clear to those who see that he does not care a fleck of dandruff for NASA’s mission. The most important consequence of his decisions regarding NASA has been the discontinuation of American government-sponsored spaceflight. Not to get into an argument over the virtues of the Constellation program (public works with an improbable launch architecture) and private spaceflight (I’m rooting for SpaceX), it is simply irresponsible for a sitting President to destroy a potentially strategic national capability. Had he transferred the spaceflight mission to the Air Force, this might have been credible. What he has done is hand it over to the Russians. Oh, and commercial transport to the Space Station? Just like offshore oil drilling: something easy to promise now and to cancel later, “for cause.”
What really remains is NASA as a propaganda tool for “global warming” and other political sciences.
Flying carpets´ technology?
Brad says “..lying crap..”?
Are you saying that Bolden was lying about the 3 things Obama asked him to do? That Obama had actually given him aeronautics and space as his foremost tasks, but he just made this up for Al Jazeera? That he lied about the purpose of his trip and had just gone to the middle east for perhaps a shopping trip? If so was he asked to lie by Obama, or did he think he would just lie about Obama’s instructions, without Obama’s permission?
Being nice to your hosts and changing policy to accomadate them are two VERY different things. NASA’s funds get increased, but they also tack on other missions which are very weird like this. What is the point of this?
This is by far in the same territory as the IPCC and Pauchuri simply because we exchange science (in NASA) for PC, political motivations and/or “feel good” crap that does no good and will have no good result in the long run since most muslims who are educated I am sure already know all of this, and those who are not, refuse to learn anyway. Take this like the IPCC which attempts to use a scientific background (like NASA in this case) and put out propaganda that serves no purpose but some weird politian’s daydreams of a sunny day where the birds are chirping and the flowers are singing, and reality does not exist.
As a friend of mine just said on our private technical discussion list:
NASA now stands for:
”No American in Space Anymore.”
Beyond sad.
And WRT prior comment by JinOH:
”America: 1776-2010 It was a good run.”
Stuff like these NASA ”goals” keep popping up, last above may move a lot more than is comfortable, from being cynically funny to being scarily observant. Having said same:
I don’t think the slide is irreversible YET. But it better back off soon, or it may be time to re-read Edward Gibbon’s classic historical work ”The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” in a new light.
The activity of any group of cells against the natural order and functioning of the organism is called cancer.
Charles Bolden, head of NASA, tells Al Jazeera in a video that:
…the “foremost” task President Obama has given him is “to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with predominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering.”
This must be one of the most patronising statements I have ever read. Since when was it Obama’s job, much less the responsibility of NASA, to ‘help’ Muslim nations to feel good about their contribution to anything? If I were Muslim I would feel insulted by this remark. Who the B—-H — is he to tell me this?
Doug
“”Brad says:
July 6, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Oh come on, the guy was trying to be nice to his hosts and blow it up into this?”‘
No Brad, and the moron is so stupid he doesn’t even realize what an insult and put down that is.
How would you feel if someone said your self extreme was so low, an entire government agency should reach out and prop you up? Give you a little pat on the back and a sugar cookie?
Historical contributions of Muslims to math and science is huge and cannot be overstated (to name a few, think optics, biology, universities, etc.); HOWEVER, self esteem enhancement, propaganda, and psy-ops against foreign nations is NOT NASA’s job. Plenty of three letter agencies have those mission statements.
NASA, to me, is a research and exploration agency.
This is OT, but figured it was worth posting…
I was thinking about all the Ayn Rand comments I saw, and thought I would highly recommend this book. However, most people who read this do not understand that this is a book of philosophy…it is not trying to say “this is the way the world should be, or this is the bad way the world could be”. She is trying to talk about socialists in general and the evil they inflict on people through “feelings” and false morality.
Even the infamous John Galt is shown to be imperfect even though he is “the perfect man”.
Reading it as a trestise on government will not satisfy either side. Although the libertarian side is praised, it is meant nothing more but for a place for the true contributers of society to bide their time until society is willing to give them a true price for the services they give humanity. And the socalist conditions are even not shown to be completly evil, in that the philosophy is broken down into how the socalists do mean well, its just that their disconnect with the reality of their fellow man and their false morality clouds their judgement and makes them take from the weathly for mostly their own devices.
I might say that I read this and could picture some people in the Cagw group as the very definitions of the socalist characters and the skeptics as part of the “libertarian” group. The CAGW takes tax money from the wealthy, and uses it for “good intentions” in their minds, but ends up being nothing more then a “legal steal” from those who earned the wealth.
The skeptics attempt to fix society which is being broken by these men (and women) and expect no pay for their services. I posted this here simply because their was a lot of quotes on Ayn Rand….and I think all philosophies are important to read because they give you a different outlook and explain why people do what they do.
chip says:
July 6, 2010 at 4:38 pm
“Therefore, there is long game value in pointing out very clearly that when we in the european judeo-christian part of the world were doing the Dark Ages, the Islamic world was doing the cutting edge scientific thought, the astronomy, the literature, the architecture, music and all sorts of great works, and that a lot of the science we in the first world are doing today stands on the shoulders of work done by the great Islamic scholars and of the middle ages.”
There were scientists in the Middle East who did great work DESPITE religion, not because of it. The muslim rulers today are the inheritors of an ideology that destroyed science, so please, don’t conflate scientific achievement with anything written in the Koran.
The head of NASA can appeal to children all over the world if he wishes, but to appeal to the “Muslim world” as if the religion has anything to contribute to science is idiocy.
Absolutely agree!
Robert of Ottawa says:
July 6, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Mohammad Al Wright and his brother Mohammad ibn Wright invented flight. A capacity later developed by Mohammad Al Boeing of course; and who could forget the M26 Flying Fortress?
And of course you’ve been talking to Obama bin Token Lotsa Weed, right?
Charles Bolden, head of NASA, tells Al Jazeera in a video that:
Charles Bolden, head of NASA, tells Al Jazeera in a video that:
…the “foremost” task President Obama has given him is “to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with predominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering.”
What’s more, it had nothing to do with Muhommadism or any other religion. So why make the attribution? It is muddled thinking.
I said nothing of numerals at all, and what revisionism are you referring to, or have you mistaken me for someone else?
Boldren is a retired Air Force two-star.
Generals come in two flavors, they say, the fighters like Patton and Schwarzkopf, and the
sycophantspoliticians like Colin Powell and Obama’s entire current Joint Chiefs of Staff.I guess we now know which flavor Boldren is.
The “arabic numerals” we use today are nothing like the ones you’ll find in Arabic countries. You might recognize the 1 and the 9, but their zero looks like a decimal point, and their five looks like our zero. If you see a 7, it’s really their six.
The muslims did carry the scientific torch for us during the Dark Ages, but Western culture has carried it since. There are plenty of scientists in India and Pakistan who happen to be muslim, but the stricter muslim societies don’t care much for non-koranic-compliant research. Yes, I know, bigoted, racist, ignorant, prejudiced, etc.
I’m about a fifth of the way through Atlas Shrugged. It is purely uncanny the way Ayn Rand has described Obama’s America, half a century distant from her. I hope the novel has a happy ending.
April E. Coggins Said:
“Spartacus: Since you admit to not being an American, let me help you. NASA is an acronym for National Aeronautical and Space Agency. It is funded by American taxpayers for the purpose of American space exploration. It is not for purpose of elevating the self-esteem of a particular religion or other countries because they are predominantly Muslim.”
I appreciate your explanation but I’ll try not consider that you think I’m dummy because I’m not an American, at the point of not knowing what NASA acronym means. Now your explanation, thought its true, its a rather naive. NASA largely surpassed the frontiers of the USA and largely benefits from the investigation results from Investigators from other countries. Look for the sources of global temp data. Do you think that all world thermometers have been installed by americans payed by american taxpayers and with american workers?!!! After all, echoes from the NASA alarmism on climate change are not limited to USA frontiers and that matters to me. American tax payers are surely the main funding resource to NASA but that’s far from being the only source of NASA profiting (and I include here financial and scientifically profiting). I have many ties to NASA in common projects (and common funding) that largely reject your narrow view. That does not mean that I agree with all they say. After all I’ve also made into Jim Prall’s list of climate scientists, as a skeptic with publications about climate, and I was surprised to be ranked very well to what I was expecting 😉
“And this whole “three things Obama charged me to do” are obviously not the only three things given him to do, they are obviously the three talking points this guy wants to bring to this particular audience. ”
No, he said this was the foremost task that Obama had given him. Clearly, it can’t be the foremost task, but it’s also clear that Obama has declared this a responsibility for NASA, which is painfully ridiculous. And let’s not forget what a famous person said recently:
“Don’t tell me words don’t matter.”
What you see before you is the result of all that has gone before. Every culture, religion, political system, tribe, etc. throughout history has contributed to both human advancement and to human misery.
All have practiced genocide, slavery, torture, etc. to some degree. All have practiced compassion and high morality. Often concurrently.
We all survive and die in the same sewer.
Curiousgeorge,
Your quote, “We all survive and die in the same sewer,” reminded me of Oscar Wilde’s famous quote:
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.”
Muphry’s Law strikes. Boldren was a Marine two-star.
Funny, with the exception of dead Congressman Murtha, you don’t expect Marines to be of the sell-out variety. Maybe that’s just marketing. Sad in any event.
Alexander Feht says:
July 6, 2010 at 4:48 pm
,i>I am not surprised. I am not even appalled. This kind of evil nonsense coming from Washington is to be expected: we let loose this evil, we asked for it.
Our welfare-state civilization is obviously flawed in its very foundation. Perhaps, for any positive change to take place, the surreal, Kafkaesque, self-loathing world of the modern “progressive thinking” must run it course, and collapse under its own weight.
Aliens won’t help, we must be our own enemies. Think of it as of an evolution in action.
Alexander,
WE –the American People– didn’t let lose anything.
Rather, it was the cadre of multinational industrialists and bankers who’ve overtaken us in our own land, who’ve done the deed.
While the American People were asleep, their government was stolen from them.
The results are those of which you speak.
Spartacus says: “Sorry .. I can’t find anything wrong with this phrase…”
Its not the English, Spartacus. Its the fact that the “foremost task” of NASA is supposed to be Aeronautics and Space Exploration, not helping Muslims “to feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering.”
Besides this Spartacus, what point do you see in helping Muslims to feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering?
“Once, when we westerns were “barbarians”, trying to enforce christianism by the power of the sword, muslims were worried with maths (you forget that 1, 2, 3, 4… 0 are the arabic numerical notation), were looking at the stars, giving great contributions to astronomy and had a incredible advanced architecture.”
If you study history during the time when “we westerns were “barbarians”, trying to enforce christianism by the power of the sword”, the muslims were doing likewise, (spreading Islam by the power of the sword).
“you forget that 1, 2, 3, 4… 0 are the arabic numerical notation”
No Spartacus 0,1, 2, 3, 4,5,6,7.8,9 are ENTIRELY western numerals, the actual arabic numerals are ٠.١.٢.٣.٤.٥.٦.٧.٨.٩
They are only CALLED “Arabic numerals”, who borrowed by them from the Indians, who invented them and who also invented the Zero.
Similarly a lot of their “great contributions to astronomy and had a incredible advanced architecture” came from the Christian and Persian lands that they conquered.
“.. it’s possible to see great scientists that come from the muslim world. ” It is possible but we dont see that despite their enormous wealth. Theocracy doesnt breed scientists, they breed mullahs and mosques. Even Turkey, which is a presently secular but with an Islamic party in power, has one mosque to every 900 citizens and one hospital for every 600,000. It has 90,000 Imams, much more than teachers or doctors.
The best way for muslim countries to produce great scientists is to become secular and turn to science and away from theocracy.
And finally Spartacus, science is secular, neither Muslim nor Christian or any other religion. “Muslim” science is an oxymoron.
RofO, reading my original post carefully, I see you confuse my comments with those of the Roman slave. The blockquotes should help readers figure out who says what…but not always.
Smokey says:
July 6, 2010 at 6:53 pm
I wasn’t aware of the Wilde quote, but apparently we share a similar outlook. Thank you for bringing his thought to my attention. 🙂
Unfortunately, the world seems lately to be frolicking in the gutter rather than looking to the stars.
All I can say is “save the date, November 2nd”.
Has it been 4 years yet?
Another piece of the Obama puzzle.
Tom in Texas says: “Has it been 4 years yet?”
Alas no, though it seems like much longer. But dont wait. Cant you impeach him for something like sheer incompetency? Or lying? (Saying he could when he couldnt).
And dont tell me you cant, Yes you can.
Well, at least NASA’s mission no longer includes spreading climate alarmism. Perhaps this means Hansen will be stepping aside soon?
Some push-back from the former NASA chief.
Since no one has pointed it out: Major General Charles Bolden (USMC ret) is an extremely accomplished aviator. Naval Academy ’68. 100 missions over Viet Nam in the A6. Test pilot. Naval Academy Commandant. Long NASA career as an astronaut. Four shuttle flights, two as shuttle commander. Total of 680 hours on orbit. I’ve met him. Very impressive man, humble, yet clearly in command. Good family man. Good guy.
I feel horrible for him to be put in this ridiculous position by the Obama administration. This interview is indefensible, but I only blame Charlie for having agreed to serve this president. He’s going to carry out the order as best he can. It’s a crying shame to see him humiliated in this way.
Since when has this blog been taken over by ~snip~
Ideas have consequences. We are beginning to see the promised “change”.
The “Manchurian President” is beginning to reveal his agenda.
Will his eligibility ever be validated?
It’s now the National Arabic and Shiite Administration. Just what we need, taxpayer money being spent on encouraging more muslim thugocracies to build ICBMs and nukes…
No one gets it. The people who know politics are the scientists, the scientists are politicials etc. It is “Alice in Wonderland” The only problem is real peoples lives will be affected for years by this series of ,might I kindly say, crazy decisions.
Interesting link Smokey
“If by doing great things, people are inspired, well then that’s wonderful,” Griffin said. “If you get it in the wrong order … it becomes an empty shell.”
Griffin added: “That is exactly what is in danger of happening.”
He also said that while welcome, Muslim-nation cooperation is not vital for U.S. advancements in space exploration.
“There is no technology they have that we need,” Griffin said.
The former administrator stressed that any criticism should be directed at Obama, not Bolden, since NASA merely carries out policy.
End
In other words,what is there to praise about Muslim technology?
Next somebody from Obama’s cabinet will be telling us that women are respected in Muslim nations..oh wait.
Al Jazeera is a well-known anti-semitic organization. I would think that Bolden, a smart guy would have understood this by now, but the Jew haters in the White House and the State Department overruled him. Sad to say the least, because Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton deserve the overwhelming majority of the blame for this fau paux.
I think it’s clear from the link Smokey posted that what Bolden was talking about was NASA’s public outreach priorities, not its internal functions and scientific priorities.
Much ado about nothing.
~snip~
As a Canadian, I must register my offence. When it comes to other nations who should be made to “feel good about their historic contribution,” surely Canada must rank first in order of merit. By providing the feet of the lunar lander and the arms of the space shuttles, we have proven ourselves to be valuable limbs to the body of space exploration — at least back when NASA was its acknowledged head, and not its butt.
Oh, that’s just what the people in charge say to keep their appointments. The guys who actually do the work at NASA are charged with fixing Toyotas.
NASA = Not A Science Agenda
But hey- we can hope they’ll change – maybe ask those in charge to do something. They got us this far. More money always helps. A new ministry is ever-ready to investigate. Welcome to the casino, friend. Political Style Fun for all! You’re guaranteed to enjoy it – if you fail to enjoy your fleecing, come back for another one.
You can have anything and everything you ever dreamed of! *
(*in your dreams)
GeneDoc:
I agree. General Bolden is a career Marine, there is no way he is going to disobey an order from his Commander-in-Chief.
How did we get someone in the office of the president with such misguided priorities?Simple; the people were fed up with the Republicans so they threw them out and put in Democrats. Judging by the current mood of the country, this November they’ll throw out the Dems and put Republicans back in. So we’ll be right back where we started. This is like watching a ping pong game. Why don’t we throw out both of them and put in 3rd party candidates and/or independents?
JinOH says:
July 6, 2010 at 2:53 pm
America: 1776-2010 It was a good run.
——
I’m sure you meant 1776-2008.
[do not spam multiple threads. one post on tips and notes please. ~ ctm]
Ken Haylock says: (July 6, 2010 at 3:16 pm) Therefore, there is long game value in pointing out very clearly that when we in the european judeo-christian part of the world were doing the Dark Ages, the Islamic world was doing the cutting edge scientific thought, the astronomy, the literature, the architecture, music …
There is pause for thought in this evangelically enthusiastic biker’s response. I do not believe it should be anything like a NASA priority, but as an outreach to American (and beyond) kids of the religion it could well prove an inspiration. Realising they were not coming from original ignorance but from a previous time of knowledge that is going through its own dark ages may be enough to give some inspiration — and even the smallest “some” is a step towards a general enlightenment.
Imagine working for NASA under these new marching orders. The first question you’ll be asked about that scientific proposal you’ve worked your heart out on is, “Will this project make Muslims feel better about themselves?” Better be ready with a snappy salute to “The Religion of The Sword” if you plan anther step up the NASA career ladder, boys and girls.
Claude Harvey
@stevengoddard says:
July 6, 2010 at 2:54 pm
“…In the rankings of what inspires children, presidential speeches come right near the very bottom. Suicide bombers, shoe bombers, underwear bombers, bus bombers, plane bombers, school attackers and hotel attackers rank even lower….”
Actually, what I read tells me that these things rank very high in the current Muslim world – they are the aspirations of Muslim boys everywhere (and lately some girls, although the ones who actually carry these things out seem to have been mentally challenged, but hey, girls don’t count for much at the very best).
[I don’t disagree with a word of that but this is not the place. ~ ctm]
Snip away, dear Charles.
[I did. ~ ctm]
The man said “Yes, we can!”, he never said what.
As an American citizen, I’m thinking I should plan my NASA burka outfit now.
Oh, and for you astronomy fans, Charlie Bolden flew the mission (as pilot) that deployed the Hubble.
Hate to see what we have done and are doing to NASA. It’s acute now, but it’s been going on since the early 70s. Encapsulated in the concept that “we should be spending all that money on problems here on earth.” Such short-sighted nonsensical thinking.
Looking at the photo I thought this was going to be a kludge fixer upper:
http://thereifixedit.com/
But then I watched the video… now I am just confused. What does NASA stand for? North American Synergies with Arabia?
Thomas: “I know many fine scientists from the Muslim world, even scientists who are devout practicing Muslims. And without question they have a rich scientific heritage. A heritage that forms a foundation upon with modern science rests.”
So what? Should NASA’s first priority be to promote these ‘many fine scientists’? Even if this is true, why should NASA care?
And let’s quantify these “many fine scientists” here a moment. I agree that Nobel prizes are an unreliable indicator. So let’s look at patents. Surely a society brimming with math and science would be inventing all sorts of things.
So here’s a list of “patents granted by country”: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_pat_gra-economy-patents-granted . You’ll notice right off that the top 25 are all non-Muslim countries. The US is #3 with 289 patents per million people. The bottom countries on the list have only 1 patent per million people. Iran is one of these. What you might not notice is that a bunch of Muslim countries are not even on the list, including: Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, and more. Saudi Arabia established a patent office in 1990 and granted its first patents in 1996.
I’d say if NASA’s top priority is to help Muslim nations “feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering” they’ve got their work cut out for them, no wonder they have no time for space exploration.
I believe the good president has confused Muslims with Arabs.
The Arabs have contributed a great to early science, Islam has not.
But so have the Sumerians, the Greek, the Egyptians, the Romans etc etc.
Obama from day one pursued a startegy based on Muslim anger toward the west being the west’s fault, and that extending a hand a friendship through his speech in Cairo, he really did think that the tension would all go away and people would suddenly sit down and negotiate in good faith instead of engaging in hijackings and suicide bombings. Despite having his initiative rebuffed at every turn, he forges on with new tactics to tackle what he his certain much be the case, that Muslim anger is “our fault” and so we should apologize and appease.
The fact is that the only people who are capable of giving Muslims some sense of pride in terms of their scientific accomplishments is their own teachers and leaders. Any culture incapable of doing this for themselves, or unwilling to, is not going to suddenly change their direction because of anything NASA can do. I wouldn’t expect NASA’s opinion the historical perspective of science to be accepted anymore than if they documented tradional dance through the centuries for them. Who are they going to believe? The things NASA says about Islamic scientific history or the local Imam raving at the evil that is America where everything is a lie?
North American Sycophantical Administration
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Anthony. I realise this was probably a political post regarding a government entity which historically was at the front of science but it has evolved into a denigration of people of another faith. The armchair bigots came out in force to spread opinion and ignorant invective in full. I also realise you can “modify the policy as needed, including on an event basis” but this – words fail me, is horrid. when I met you in Adelaide recently you would not have known I was Muslim and I doubt it would have mattered much.
This site is about dispelling myth and ignorance. This entry belittles this otherwise fine site.
Patrik says: “I believe the good president has confused Muslims with Arabs.
The Arabs have contributed a great to early science, Islam has not.”
The “Golden Age” of “Islamic science” was between the 7th and 13th centuries, during the time of the (West) European “dark ages”. But the reasons for this have absolutely nothing to do with the Islamic religion which actively discourages knowledge outside of itself, as it considers its holy book to be the ultimate repository of all knowledge.
This period was also the time of the greatest Muslim conquests.
Many of the scientific advances credited to Islam, like the zero, were actually borrowed from other cultures conquered by the Muslims. Conquered populations contributed greatly to the history of “Muslim science” until gradually being decimated by conversion to Islam. The increase in Muslim concentration within a population was directly proportional to the decline of scientific achievement. In the last 600 years the Muslim world has run out of new civilizations to cannibalize and has contributed little towards science.
Getting back to the science…
Abu-Musa Jabir Ibn-Hayan, 103-200 Hijri/ 721-815 AC
Jabir is considered the founder of experimental chemistry.
“Jabir used to say about this experimental method that ”the condition for perfecting this craft, is work and experiment. He who does not work or experiment will achieve nothing.”
Also, in the first article in the great book of properties he says: ”In this book we mention the properties of what we have seen after experiments and tests regardless of what we have heard or read. And thus we mentioned what proved to be right and we refused what proved to be wrong and we also compared what we discovered to what people mentioned” ”
Observation compared to opinion.
“His procedures can be summarized in three steps:
The first: the chemist has to set an assumption through his observations so as to explain the phenomenon he wants to explain.
The second: to deduce conclusions based theoretically on his assumptions.
The third: to take these conclusions back to nature and see whether it will support his new findings or not. If they proved to be true, the hypothesis changes into a scientific law that can be relied upon in detecting how nature will react under certain circumstances.”
I wonder what Jabir’s opinion would be about the “scientific” method of those who use and prefer (climate) models to real world observations, especially when the observations demonstrate shortcomings in the models. I suspect he would have approved of old NASA and old CSIRO, when they stuck to the science.
Steven mosher says:
July 6, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Third and perhaps foremost?
who friggin talks like that?
nice shot
crackle.. hiss…. Mecca, the Camel has landed on the crescent moon…..crackle..hiss.. one small step for man, one giant stumble for womankind!
“Prince Charles yesterday urged the world to follow Islamic ‘spiritual principles’ in order to protect the environment.
In an hour-long speech, the heir to the throne argued that man’s destruction of the world was contrary to the scriptures of all religions – but particularly those of Islam.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1285332/Follow-Islamic-way-save-world-Charles-urges-environmentalists.html#ixzz0qVedA7z5
[REPLY – God Save the Queen! (For a long, long time.) ~ Evan]
When I was a kid, way back in the sixties, when NASA was NASA, I loved watching the moon landings, rockets going up, coming back. Then, later on we had the space probes, still sending us images, then we had the space shuttles, Mars programme etc etc. Then we had Obama telling us ‘YES WE CAN’, now telling us ‘NO WE CANNOT’ go to Mars, and I believe, soon, we will not be able to go even into earth orbit. But Nasa is, on the other hand, opening up to the Muslims. What on earth is happening to NASA, to the USA. I am not American, but European,however I had always considered the USA as the world’s protector of freedom and liberty and the protector of our right to do the right thing. The US saved the world three times from the beast, last century, th efirst world war, the second time from a Nazi takeover and the third time from a red take over. Now the USA is turningitself into a nothingness, an irrelevance and is losing fast. I wonder who would protect the world when the next would-be world dictator comes into being. When Obama turns the US into a military irrelevance, then the next global evil power will raise its head. Or has this already occured?
When I was a kid, way back in the sixties, when NASA was NASA, I loved watching the moon landings, rockets going up, coming back. Then, later on we had the space probes, still sending us images, then we had the space shuttles, Mars programme etc etc. Then we had Obama telling us ‘YES WE CAN’, now telling us ‘NO WE CANNOT’ go to Mars, and I believe, soon, we will not be able to go even into earth orbit. But Nasa is, on the other hand, opening up to the Muslims. What on earth is happening to NASA, to the USA. I am not American, but European,however I had always considered the USA as the world’s protector of freedom and liberty and the protector of our right to do the right thing. The US saved the world three times from the beast, last century, th efirst world war, the second time from a Nazi takeover and the third time from a red take over. Now the USA is turningitself into a nothingness, an irrelevance and is losing fast. I wonder who would protect the world when the next would-be world dictator comes into being. When Obama turns the US into a politcial and military irrelevance, in his great ‘save the planet from climate change’ leap forward, then the next global evil power will raise its head. Or has this already occured?
Well, I’m pretty sure this will cost the Dimocrats the Florida vote (certainly all the Space Coast, and I’ve got word from Orlando that folks there were fuming over the cut of the rocket program. LOTS of tourists
comecame to watch rocket launches…Oh well, China once dominated the world oceans, then burned the fleet. We’re just doing the same. And it didn’t hurt China much, only set it back for about 500 years…
So, no worries. China has a space program now, as do the Russians and the Japanese. Even India. We can always hitch a ride with one of them. If they have pity in their hearts or need a propaganda coup. And just think, we’ll likely make it back to space again in about 2510 or so… If they will let us.
If Obama had simply made a speech about science in which he had mentioned historical developments such as the Arab/Muslim contribution then that would have been fine. I’m all for people learning more about history but when people give credit to the Arabs they often forget that they got much of their knowledge from Nestorian Christians whose contribution should also be acknowledged.
I doubt if anyone would seriously object to NASA having educational goals but it is obviously quite bizzare to set them above anything to do with space. As a British teenager in the 1960s I remember how thrilled I was by the space missions of NASA and the Russians, especially the manned flights but also the unmanned inter-planetary missions. I’m glad that European nations (with the European Space Agency), Japan, China and India and some other countries participate in space research today.
The early American and Russian missions must have inspired an interest in science in countless thousands of people around the world. I first learnt about the Arab/Muslim contributions to science by reading books about astronomy. However despite the propaganda aspects of space research if Kennedy (or Kruschev) had given their scientists and engineers the same sort of instructions that Obama is supposed to have given NASA (I find it difficult to believe that he could be so daft as to say what he is supposed to have said) then, far from inspiring children and young people the effect would have been to weaken interest.
It would not have destroyed interest – space research was for too exciting for that – but it certainly would not have helped.
Patrick, I see that you’ve been very active in this thread but your position is in error.
It is NOT the job of the President to promote favoritism toward ANY religion. Past Presidents have gone out of their way to “eraticate” Christianity, entire bodies of the government exist to remove traces of religion in ALL forms.
Why, then, is this president obsessed with islam? Why is he tasking NASA, or ANY government body, with mending fences with a RELIGION???? ANY religion! It’s against almost everything the USA stands for, and it’s WRONG.
There is no “islamic” science, or Christian science, or to go back 60 years, no “Jew science”. There is science, and there is religion. The two are not connected, and not to be connected. Doing so is beyond wrong, it borders on ludicrous, and possibly treasonous. It seems to me that this administration is going out of their way to do everything possible to be wrong.
It doesn’t matter if the person who invented or discovered this, that or the other thing is islamic, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, or a goat worshipping heathen. Is their science good? Are they right? Are their proofs in place and their conclusions well supported? I personally don’t care if people in another part of the world are being “represented” by a particular branch of the US government, and neither should anyone else.
NASA = Not About Space Anymore
Anthony, I am very disapointed to read the anti-Muslim rants in this thread. This is not up to WUWT’s usual very high ethical standards which, to me, has set WUWT apart from lesser blogs. I would be just as disapointed if people were having uncalled-for pops at Presbyterians or Episcopalians.
Had NASA not been involved, it never would have been a topic here, but this was so off the wall total epic FAIL that it deserved to be posted.
But yes I agree. We’ve heard enough ranting. Thread closed.