
Guest posting by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
Anthony Watts’ earlier posting about Margaret Thatcher’s sceptical approach to the climate question prompted some comments asking whether I could add anything to the story, since I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.
First, what on Earth was a layman with a degree in classical languages and architecture doing giving advice on science to the British Prime Minister, who was herself a scientist and a Fellow of the Royal Society?
Truth is, British government is small (though still a lot bigger and more expensive than it need be). The Prime Minister’s policy unit had just six members, and, as a mathematician who was about to make a goodish fortune turning an obscure and hitherto-unnoticed wrinkle in the principles of probabilistic combinatorics into a pair of world best-selling puzzles, I was the only one who knew any science.
So, faute de mieux, it was I who – on the Prime Minister’s behalf – kept a weather eye on the official science advisors to the Government, from the Chief Scientific Advisor downward. On my first day in the job, I tottered into Downing Street dragging with me one of the world’s first portable computers, the 18-lb Osborne 1, with a 5” screen, floppy disks that were still truly floppy, and a Z80 8-bit chip which I had learned to program in machine language as well as BASIC.
This was the first computer they had ever seen in Downing Street. The head of security, a bluff military veteran, was deeply suspicious. “What do you want a computer for?” he asked. “Computing,” I replied.
I worked that weighty little box hard. It did everything: converting opinion-poll percentages to predictions of Parliamentary seats won and lost (we predicted the result of the 1983 General Election to within 1 seat); demonstrating a new type of index-linked home loan that removed the inflationary front-loading of interest payments and made it easier for working people to buy the State-owned houses they lived in (we sold a million, and turned cringing clients of the State into proud homeowners with a valuable stake in Britain); and calculating the optimum hull configuration for warships to prove that a government department had defrauded a lone inventor (he got $1 million in compensation).
The tiny computer back-engineered the Social Security Department’s model that showed the impact of changes in tax and benefit rates on different types of family; discounted Cabinet Ministers’ policies to present value to appraise their viability as investments; and worked out how much extra revenue the Government would get if it cut the top rate of income tax from 60 cents on the dollar to 40 cents.
On that one, I was right and the Treasury were wrong: as I had calculated, the rich ended up paying not only more tax but a higher percentage of total tax, even though the top tax rate they had previously paid was 50% higher than the new rate.
The only expenses I ever claimed for in four years at 10 Downing Street were £172 for soldering dry joints on that overworked computer, on which I also did the first elementary radiative-transfer calculations that indicated climate scientists were right to say some “global warming” would arise as CO2 concentration continued to climb.
I briefed my colleagues in the Policy Unit, and also the Prime Minister herself. My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming, but at that time no one knew how much (plus ca change), so we needed to find out.
The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.
Did she even mention that “global warming” presented an opportunity to give nuclear power a push and, at the same time, to do down the coal-miners who had destroyed a previous Conservative government and had also tried to destroy hers?
Certainly not, for four compelling reasons.
First, nuclear power was politically dead at that time, following the monumentally stupid attempt by the Soviet operators of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to shut it down without external power just because they were curious to see what would happen.
Secondly, by then the mineworkers, under their Communist leadership, had long been defeated, and we were making arrangements for the deep, dangerous, loss-making coal-mines that had killed so many brave pitmen to be shut down and replaced with safer, profitable, opencast mines.
Two mineworkers came to my farewell party at 10 Downing Street: the first miners ever to enter Downing Street during a Conservative administration.
Thirdly, Margaret Thatcher was never vindictive: it simply was not in her nature. If any of us ever suggested taking any action that would unfairly disadvantage any of her political opponents, she would give us the Gazillion-Gigawatt Glare and say, very firmly and quietly, “Prime Ministers don’t, dear!”
Fourthly, she had an unusual mind that effortlessly spanned CP Snow’s Two Cultures.
As a former food chemist, she possessed the ruthlessly honest logic of the true scientist. As a former barrister, she had the vigor and articulacy of the true practitioner of the forensic arts. Too many scientists today are in effect politicians: too many politicians pretend to be scientific.
Margaret Thatcher was genuinely both scientist and politician, and was able to take the best from both roles without confusing them. She would not have dreamed of doing anything that in any way undermined the integrity of science.
A little vignette will illustrate her scientific integrity. In the late 1970s, a year before she won the first of her three General Elections and became Britain’s first woman Prime Minister, I had sent her a tiny piece of propaganda that I had designed, the Labour Pound.
The little slip of paper bore this simple message: “This is a Labour Pound. This is how small your banknote would be today if it had been shrunk to match the fall in its value under Labour. Vote Conservative!”
Margaret Thatcher noticed at once that the piece of paper was a little too small. Inflation had been bad under the Labour Government (at the time it was running at 27% a year), but not that bad. “Do it again and get it right and be fair,” she said. Humbled, I did as I was told – and tens of millions of Labour Pounds were distributed throughout Britain at the subsequent General Election, to satisfyingly devastating effect.
In 1988 it was my successor at No. 10, George Guise, who traveled one bitterly cold October weekend down to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country house, and sat in front of a roaring fire writing the speech that would announce a government subsidy to the Royal Society to establish what would become the Hadley Centre for Forecasting.
George remembers how he and the Prime Minister chuckled at the irony of writing a speech about “global warming” on an evening so cold that he could hardly hold his pen.
But that’s October for you: a couple of years ago the scientific illiterates who now inhabit the House of Commons voted for the Climate Change and National Economic Hara-Kiri Bill by one of the largest majorities in Parliament’s history, with only three gallant MPs having the courage to defy the Whips and vote against – and this on the very night that the first October snow in 74 years fell in Parliament Square.
In due course, the scientific results began to arrive. It became as clear to Margaret Thatcher as it has to me that our original concern was no longer necessary. The warming effect of CO2 is simply too small to make much difference and, in any event, it is orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective to adapt to any consequences of “global warming” than to wreck the economies of the West by trying to demonize CO2 and cut our emissions.
Margaret Thatcher was very conscious that the Left tries to taint every aspect of life by attempting to politicize it.
In her thinking, therefore, there is genuine outrage that the coalescence of financial and political vested-interest factions in the scientific and academic community that are driving the climate scare should be striving to bring the age of enlightenment and reason to an end by treating scientific debate as though every question were a political football to be kicked Leftward.
In the elegant words of my good friend Bob Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute, she is interested not in “policy-based evidence-making” but in “evidence-based policy-making”. The present crop of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic could learn much from her honest, forthright, no-nonsense approach.
Margaret Thatcher: the world’s first climate realist
by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
Anthony Watts’ earlier posting about Margaret Thatcher’s sceptical approach to the climate question prompted some comments asking whether I could add anything to the story, since I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.
First, what on Earth was a layman with a degree in classical languages and architecture doing giving advice on science to the British Prime Minister, who was herself a scientist and a Fellow of the Royal Society?
Truth is, British government is small (though still a lot bigger and more expensive than it need be). The Prime Minister’s policy unit had just six members, and, as a mathematician who was about to make a goodish fortune turning an obscure and hitherto-unnoticed wrinkle in the principles of probabilistic combinatorics into a pair of world best-selling puzzles, I was the only one who knew any science.
So, faute de mieux, it was I who – on the Prime Minister’s behalf – kept a weather eye on the official science advisors to the Government, from the Chief Scientific Advisor downward. On my first day in the job, I tottered into Downing Street dragging with me one of the world’s first portable computers, the 18-lb Osborne 1, with a 5” screen, floppy disks that were still truly floppy, and a Z80 8-bit chip which I had learned to program in machine language as well as BASIC.
This was the first computer they had ever seen in Downing Street. The head of security, a bluff military veteran, was deeply suspicious. “What do you want a computer for?” he asked. “Computing,” I replied.
I worked that weighty little box hard. It did everything: converting opinion-poll percentages to predictions of Parliamentary seats won and lost (we predicted the result of the 1983 General Election to within 1 seat); demonstrating a new type of index-linked home loan that removed the inflationary front-loading of interest payments and made it easier for working people to buy the State-owned houses they lived in (we sold a million, and turned cringing clients of the State into proud homeowners with a valuable stake in Britain); and calculating the optimum hull configuration for warships to prove that a government department had defrauded a lone inventor (he go $1 million in compensation).
The tiny computer back-engineered the Social Security Department’s model that showed the impact of changes in tax and benefit rates on different types of family; discounted Cabinet Ministers’ policies to present value to appraise their viability as investments; and worked out how much extra revenue the Government would get if it cut the top rate of income tax from 60 cents on the dollar to 40 cents.
On that one, I was right and the Treasury were wrong: as I had calculated, the rich ended up paying not only more tax but a higher percentage of total tax, even though the top tax rate they had previously paid was 50% higher than the new rate.
The only expenses I ever claimed for in four years at 10 Downing Street were £172 for soldering dry joints on that overworked computer, on which I also did the first elementary radiative-transfer calculations that indicated climate scientists were right to say some “global warming” would arise as CO2 concentration continued to climb.
I briefed my colleagues in the Policy Unit, and also the Prime Minister herself. My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming, but at that time no one knew how much (plus ca change), so we needed to find out.
The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.
Did she even mention that “global warming” presented an opportunity to give nuclear power a push and, at the same time, to do down the coal-miners who had destroyed a previous Conservative government and had also tried to destroy hers?
Certainly not, for four compelling reasons.
First, nuclear power was politically dead at that time, following the monumentally stupid attempt by the Soviet operators of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to shut it down without external power just because they were curious to see what would happen.
Secondly, by then the mineworkers, under their Communist leadership, had long been defeated, and we were making arrangements for the deep, dangerous, loss-making coal-mines that had killed so many brave pitmen to be shut down and replaced with safer, profitable, opencast mines.
Two mineworkers came to my farewell party at 10 Downing Street: the first miners ever to enter Downing Street during a Conservative administration.
Thirdly, Margaret Thatcher was never vindictive: it simply was not in her nature. If any of us ever suggested taking any action that would unfairly disadvantage any of her political opponents, she would give us the Gazillion-Gigawatt Glare and say, very firmly and quietly, “Prime Ministers don’t, dear!”
Fourthly, she had an unusual mind that effortlessly spanned CP Snow’s Two Cultures.
As a former food chemist, she possessed the ruthlessly honest logic of the true scientist. As a former barrister, she had the vigor and articulacy of the true practitioner of the forensic arts. Too many scientists today are in effect politicians: too many politicians pretend to be scientific.
Margaret Thatcher was genuinely both scientist and politician, and was able to take the best from both roles without confusing them. She would not have dreamed of doing anything that in any way undermined the integrity of science.
A little vignette will illustrate her scientific integrity. In the late 1970s, a year before she won the first of her three General Elections and became Britain’s first woman Prime Minister, I had sent her a tiny piece of propaganda that I had designed, the Labour Pound.
The little slip of paper bore this simple message: “This is a Labour Pound. This is how small your banknote would be today if it had been shrunk to match the fall in its value under Labour. Vote Conservative!”
Margaret Thatcher noticed at once that the piece of paper was a little too small. Inflation had been bad under the Labour Government (at the time it was running at 27% a year), but not that bad. “Do it again and get it right and be fair,” she said. Humbled, I did as I was told – and tens of millions of Labour Pounds were distributed throughout Britain at the subsequent General Election, to satisfyingly devastating effect.
In 1988 it was my successor at No. 10, George Guise, who traveled one bitterly cold October weekend down to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country house, and sat in front of a roaring fire writing the speech that would announce a government subsidy to the Royal Society to establish what would become the Hadley Centre for Forecasting.
George remembers how he and the Prime Minister chuckled at the irony of writing a speech about “global warming” on an evening so cold that he could hardly hold his pen.
But that’s October for you: a couple of years ago the scientific illiterates who now inhabit the House of Commons voted for the Climate Change and National Economic Hara-Kiri Bill by one of the largest majorities in Parliament’s history, with only three gallant MPs having the courage to defy the Whips and vote against – and this on the very night that the first October snow in 74 years fell in Parliament Square.
In due course, the scientific results began to arrive. It became as clear to Margaret Thatcher as it has to me that our original concern was no longer necessary. The warming effect of CO2 is simply too small to make much difference and, in any event, it is orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective to adapt to any consequences of “global warming” than to wreck the economies of the West by trying to demonize CO2 and cut our emissions.
Margaret Thatcher was very conscious that the Left tries to taint every aspect of life by attempting to politicize it.
In her thinking, therefore, there is genuine outrage that the coalescence of financial and political vested-interest factions in the scientific and academic community that are driving the climate scare should be striving to bring the age of enlightenment and reason to an end by treating scientific debate as though every question were a political football to be kicked Leftward.
In the elegant words of my good friend Bob Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute, she is interested not in “policy-based evidence-making” but in “evidence-based policy-making”. The present crop of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic could learn much from her honest, forthright, no-nonsense approach.
Sadlov!
I see a lot of people putting faith in paleo data and statements about MWP that are a lot less certain than the basic physics engineers use in their everyday job to calculate the effect that a wide variety of molecules ( see hitran) have on the propagation of radiation ( at all wavelengths) through the atmosphere. If we assumed that C02, for example, had no effect none of our designs would have worked as expected. But since C02 and other gases operate just as the RTE predict they will, our designs do work and pilots are alive today as a result. And bad guys are dead. Now, perhaps the day will come and somebody will offer up a physics of radiative transfer that predicts something different than we observe. And then we will puzzle over why RTE gave us an answer that worked. But, if your job today entails calculating how the atmosphere interacts with all manner of radiation, then you use RTE’s and you kinda smile at the folks who are looking at ice cores and wonder why they would rely on data that is less certain to reject a theory that works everyday.
http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFullText/RTO/MP/RTO-MP-001///$MP-001-11.pdf
http://www.ichmt.org/rad-10/content/view/43/45/
http://www.oktal-se.com/website/publications/publications_eo.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VK2-4N5TNGS-1&_user=10&_coverDate=09%2F30%2F2007&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1373220380&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=9f5b8c39dcfde063d9a92396fb84caae
http://wdc.dlr.de/data_products/SERVICES/VIRTUAL_LAB/
and many many others
Pascvaks says:
June 17, 2010 at 6:18 am
Eisenhower warned of the rise of the Military Industrial Complex. Today we face the Political Scientific Complex, and we’re not doing very well. Beware the Ides of September!
In the same speech Eisenhower warned:
“Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central, it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.
Steven Mosher says:
June 17, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Julian Flood ,
I’ll take it that you agree that increasing GHGs ( methane or H20 or C02 or you name it) will increase the temperature of the planet. Increasing them will not cool the planet. Increasing them will not result in exactly the same temperature. Increasing them will warm the planet. You might argue that the amount is small. You might argue that it is moderate. You might argue that it will be dramatic. But, you wouldn’t argue that the planet would cool. Or rather, there is no physics based theory that would PREDICT cooling and provide a mechanism that explained why increasing GHGs would cool the planet.
Steve, I’m not intending in any way to be confrontational, but I am genuinely at a loss in trying to understand why you seem to have fallen for the alarmist tactic of focussing on minor trace gases to the exclusion of the elephants wandering about crapping on the carpet.
Who give a monkey’s nut what co2 and methane are up to when good old H2o is far more prevalent and far more effective at both heating and cooling the atmosphere and surface? The alarmist claim that water only acts as a feedback while co2 is a forcing is the biggest red herring out there. Sun and clouds mate, and atmospheric angular momentum.
Climatology is nothing but a charlatan science with Leftist-libs doing the jiggery-pokery in your face while picking your pockets. CRUgate insider Mike Hulme should know better than anyone: “Claims such as ‘2,500 of the world’s leading scientists have reached a consensus that human activities are having a significant influence on the climate’ are disingenuous. That particular consensus judgment, as are many others in the IPCC reports, is reached by only a few dozen [UN-approved] experts…” The Democrat party sides with the secular, socialist, anti-capitalism, anti-Americanism, anti-Judeo/Christian, corrupt and colluding AGW fearmongers.
There’s nothing new about the tactics of the Democrat party only this time, the Leftist-libs are taking science down too… and California, and the country, Greece, and driving the stake a little deeper everyday into the soul of dead and dying old Europe. AGW is a new age apocalyptic conversion religion comprised mostly of Westerners who have faith in their belief that there is no other absolute power but the One: the Monophysical Element, CO2. However, the mystical properties that these new age Warmanists ascribe to their all-powerful One are not actually observed in nature and that is why you must take everything they believe on faith; and, making faith-based decisions concerning down-to-earth matters–like the business of living in a physical world–is insanity and anyone with a brain is rightly skeptical. “Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer.” (Santayana)
The sun-denying AGW global warming alarmists still believe in an ‘Earth-centered universe.’ It was proven long ago that MBH98 (aka, the ‘hockey stick’ graph) was a scientific fraud. Everyone knows Al Gore is the proverbial king with no clothes. Evanescent since the 70s, there has been no significant global warming at all since 1998 and there has been global cooling since 2002. Fears of runaway global warming is nothing more than a sick society suffering from Hot World Syndrome–a mass mania. The Earth does not actually function like a greenhouse: that’s an analogy for dummies and is way passé.
After the hoax–now that the AGW bubble has burst and the doomsday fear tactics of the Leftist-libs only work on children in the public school-dropout factories–the pertinent questions now are simple:
* Why did Western academics support lies to the detriment America, science and the objective search for truth?
* On what side of truth versus lies and anti-Americanism has the Democrat party sided with?
* Why does secular, socialist academia and the Democrat party hate America?
Well, my eyes glazed over, oh, aboot a third of the way down this here thread.
Serve.
Volley.
Return.
Net shot.
It’s almost as boring as Wimbledon, and certainly as pointless.
Warmists beware,
Ferenc M. Miskolczi apparently has a new paper in the pipeline at “Energy and Environment”, with abstract already available.
Miskolczi has been criticised for his take on the “viral theorem” but David Stockwell has shown that these concerns are overblown.
No doubt there will soon be even more to argue over.
Spot-on evilincandescentbulb. Doubtful any of the common warmists who visit this site will, or can answer your questions for fear of revealing fundemental, personal intentions.
Several people have made comments suggesting that a full refutation of Abraham’s attempt to rebut a talk by me about the climate would be desirable.
I have written to Abraham at length, asking him many questions about his talk. He has not yet acknowledged my letter, still less replied substantively. But at least I have given him an opportunity to reply before I publish – an opportunity which, contrary to academic good practice and courtesy, he had not extended to me before publishing his talk.
On 10 July my letter to Abraham, and a subsequent letter from me to the president of his university raising some concerns about his talk, will be published, together with any replies that may have been received by then.
These two letters will provide all the detail necessary to establish that Abraham’s talk fell a long way short of being scientifically reliable or academically acceptable.
In one respect, I did not behave as I should have done. In my anger at the many distortions of my talk that Abraham had relayed to third parties so that he could obtain and publish withering comments from them not on what I had said but what he wished I had said, I issued an early statement that, while indicating that much of Abraham’s talk was defective, also resorted to some ad-hominem remarks. I have apologized to Abraham for those remarks. However, he has not yet apologized to me for the numerous ad-hominem comments that he directed at me throughout his talk.
Bottom line: do not rely upon Abraham’s serially unreliable talk until you have seen the two letters from me that I have mentioned. – Monckton of Brenchley
I’m surprised Lord Monckton can hold his temper as well as he has. If he were a natural born U.S. citizen I would suggest that in order to drive the moonbats right up the wall, he should run for President on a ticket with Sarah Palin.☺
And for the moonbats here who attack the man rather than his ideas: click
The Osborne was exceptionally sturdy, ours famously surviving being dropped from the baggage hold onto the tarmac at Glasgow airport… Ouch ! It’s a sound I still wince at the thought of.
Richard says:
June 17, 2010 at 11:14 am
“Many positive feedback loops exist in the system and the major ones are shown in Figure 2. The system amplifier is the politicians’ support of global warming. The issue is assisted by gaining political approval each time it passes around a loop shown in Figure 2.”
Just love that idea of politics being possibly the only positive feedback in AGW, and that climate model doesn’t even need Christopher Monckton’s Osborne computer to run on. I ‘m sure he could soon come up with a credible sensitivity factor for that political feedback effect ‘though, which after all seems a lot more tangible than AGW itself.
I have seen where British Prime Ministers have had someone on their staff called a “science advisor” and wonder if Lord Moncton had formally held that title under the Thatcher administration? I can find no reference confirming that position under Margaret Thatcher.
Mr Mosher
What you are talking about is theory and that is not necessarily what happens in the real world. You assume theory as fact when it’s a hypothesis that isn’t confirmed by reality. The real physics is that there is a finite limit to how much warming increasing CO2 can cause and that negative feedbacks are far more likely than positive feedbacks. Assuming that the small warming over the last 150 years is real (arguable) and caused only by CO2 then the actual forcing of CO2 is far less than the hypothesis would show. I believe that historically the concept of 1-2 degrees NH warming should be welcomed.
Richard S Courtney’s comment above should be compulsory reading for all school children who are having Climate Change information forced upon them,
as the public are being conditioned to see the sceptics as right wing capitalists.
It seems from the information above that the AGW issue was started by the UK Thatcher Government. ! I suspect that the USA politicans in power at that time saw this as an opportunity to get public approval for increased use of nuclear power generation, so NASA went along with the views coming from the CRU.
The ECU and the UN also saw opportunities for other political agendas.
I say that because Dr. James Hansen of NASA-GISS has been so outspoken not only on AGW, but also on the need to adopt nuclear power generation as the best means of supplying future world energy needs given the increasing population that strains the world capacity to cope with them. Is any religious authority prepared to suggest the world will be straining the enviromental capacity with the present views.?
The UK’s Church of England seems to have tried to discuss the issue at least.
@Monckton of Brenchley
I look forward to reading your letters and it’s good to hear that you have apologized for your insults. I think we can all agree that, ultimately, it’s the science that matters, not ad-hominem attacks and rhetoric.
Cal Barndorfer,
Yes, I agree. And it’s past time now for Abraham to man up and apologize.
But don’t hold your breath.
Thanks Lord Monckton. I wish you you success.
@Smokey
What is Abraham apologizing for exactly?
Misrepresentation and ad-hom attacks.
And don’t be naive. If Abraham was honest, he would respond to Lord Monckton, instead of taking ad hominem pot shots, then running for cover. See?
Grrrrrrr.
Get em Viscount!
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
I’m aware that people are claiming Abraham made ad hominem attacks on Monckton, but I’ve yet to see any examples. I didn’t notice any when I listened to Abraham’s presentation, but maybe I missed them.
Feel free to provide some actual examples.
Re polar bears: The population issue has been thoroughly thrashed over in prior threads, and lots of links and quotes were provided that would have greatly advanced the rehash here. It’s a great pity that “polar bears” aren’t on the official “category” list and/or that there isn’t some official or semi-official index to the site that could be accessed when rehashes occur.
I’m sure that Monckton has also “actually talked to scientists.”
As for the “best of the science,” that is a beaut of a question-begger (in the true sense of the term).
“Science advisor”? Sure, Gore needs a “keeper,” but that’s nothing to brag about.
Cal Barndorfer says:
June 17, 2010 at 9:18 pm
I’m aware that people are claiming Abraham made ad hominem attacks on Monckton, but I’ve yet to see any examples. I didn’t notice any when I listened to Abraham’s presentation, but maybe I missed them.
Feel free to provide some actual examples.
===================================
You feel free to do the same, Cal.
I’ve got an even better idea: A debate between the two! Somebody needs to arrange that and then let the truth win out.
A debate. A live debate. I am sure both parties would agree to it, no?
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
Richard S Courtney says:
June 17, 2010 at 11:14 am
The issue had served its political purpose, and the “scientific results” indicated it was not a real scientific problem. So, Mrs Thatcher dropped it (as Lord Monckton says in his above article).
Which scientific results? When? Why was the mad cow still crapping on about it at the World Climate Convention in the 90’s?
Sorry, it doesn’t wash. What you and Christopher Monckton have been saying here, is that Thatcher started a worldwide doomsday scare for personal aggrandisement. And kept it going throughout her (overly long) term in office despite knowing at an early stage that the science indicated there was nothng to worry about.
And yet most of the climate-sceptical commenters here are willing to overlook that because the woman who wrecked Britain running it on the principles of her dads street corner grocery in Grantham achieved cult status in America as the woman who helped second rate film actor Ronnie Ray-Gun topple the Soviet Union. Despite overtures from Mikhail Gorbachev which would have averted the appalling loss of life in the ensuing turmoil if they’d had the statesmanship to listen and act lke statesmen?
Blimey.